Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Baez Motionfest in Court This Morning
Orlando, FL– If yesterday’s antics at the press conference of attorney for the search group Texas Equusearch, Mark Nejame, were a precursor to this mornings motions hearing, it should prove to be a long day.
Exactly what pending motions are slated to be heard as there are several before the court at this time, remains to be seen, however, all have been initiated on behalf of the defense team Jose Baez and Andrea D. Lyon.
It is presumed the court will hear: Motion to delay the economic charges against Casey Anthony, motion response on behalf of TES Founder Tim Miller to be certified as a witness in the criminal case, Motion of 90 pages regarding evidence tested by the FBI (insert yawn). Motion regarding Anthony Lazzaro phone records, motion regarding Dominic Casey records and motion to preclude Leonard Padilla, Tony Padilla, Tracy Mclaughlin and Rob Dick from testifying as prosecution witnesses. Motion for anything I forgot.
Strap in. Ride starts at 9:30AM EST, live feed here:
Mark Nejame, Todd Macaluso, Andrea Lyon Argue TES Motion
First Up-Mark Nejame vs. Andrea Lyon TES motion 10:18 AM
White shoes. Repeat. White shoes in court. Got the petty out of the way, thanks for indulging me.
Mark presents to his Honor, Stan Strickland, the vast problematic issues with a broad request, which could encompass 4000 different individuals.
Andrea Lyon argued this is not a fishing expedition, it is the equivalent of the defense relying on the “Trust Me” argument on behalf of the state. They are not looking to expose people’s personal information. Ms. Lyon went on say the defense is willing to hang out at Mark’s office until they get what they need.
Judge Strickland in recent receipt of the answer, deferring ruling upon review in short order.
Jose Baez Argues Tony Lazzarro phone records
Baez argues Lazzarro was served, and that the motion has been narrowed and only received response yesterday at 4PM.
AttorneyJay, for Tony Lazzarro, argues he was not served either, was notified by a third party as to ammended motion. Jay agrees to requesting the 6 week period of records from AT &T, but is not optimistic he will be able to. Furthermore, the materiality of the defense request post July 15, 2008, has not been shown. All communication had ceased by then.
Judge Strickland grants a portion of the defense request, June 1 through September 2008, within 30 days.
Jose Baez Argues Motion to Preclude Leonard, Tony, Tracy and Rob
Baez calls George Anthony. Casey begins weeping openly. George discusses his interaction with the team.
Linda points out Mr. Padilla puts up $50k bond, so how is it he was unaware that his intention was to find his grandaughter. George is doubletalking that they volunteered to provide security only once she was out. Jim Campbell, was the retired LE officer was staying at the home at the time. Mr. Baez had to be present when any person spoke to Casey or was around her, if he were not, a family member had to be present at all times.
George states he knew nothing about the privacy arrangements they agreed to. Linda pointed out there were several people that could have transported Casey back and forth, and that they requested this service.
Ms. Drane Burdick presented the audio interviews of Leonard, Rob, and Tracy, about 3 hours worth which the Judge will review. She requested an original copy of the signed agreements for all parties.
*Secret*.. What Baez presented as the true and correct copies of the executed agreements by all parties is NOT.. Ms. Burdick is aware of this
Judge Strickland points out that Baez has had well over a year to file a temporary restraining order as Padilla as he has been “breaking that agreement” all over TV under this argument.
Ms. Drane Burdick argued Baez motion is essentially a gag order, and their has been no agency established, they posess the burden to establish privlege in the first place.
Oral agreement was hatched upfront between all parties, and prior to the written agreement. The agreement to provide security was a condition of posting the bond in the first place.
BAM… What I eluded to, Tony Padilla did not SIGN that agreement in the motion. Hello, Florida Bar, please hold…
I am intentionally shortening this segment, The State ate his lunch, and I have no clue why, but ruling deferred.
Motion to Determine a Trial Date Check Fraud
The state argues the check issues are relegated to specific dates and feels although witnesses may overlap, there is not an issue as to hearing testimony in the murder case. Baez is the only attorney on the docket of the case. The victim, Amy Huizenga, is asserting her right as a victim for the matter to be concluded. As an alternative, the State advises they are willing to go the bench trial route, which would allay the concerns altogether.
Ms. Lyon argues it is not their position it should never be tried and it is the states fault for seeking the death penalty in the murder case. Ms. Lyon sugested the state postpone the check fraud charges 60–90 days behind the murder charge.
Judge Strickland is considering this ruling as well
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The city of Orlando website has weather records complete for each month average for a full year in 2007, but an incomplete year for the fall months of 2008. August seems to have had an unusually high rainfall for 2008 though. Funny that the city doesn’t have the fall months for last year, they must keep records, but those months are typically the dryer months, so I’ve read.
I dont know if anyone else has noticed ( I am an avid listener and people watcher) that when Lee laughs, he laughs at others incapacity to get it? or can’t believe someone didn’t pick up on something?
It is hard to make my point here as I have done the same thing,
If someone is REALLY ignorant or incapable of doing their jobs, instead of calling them a rude name or gesture, I laugh as I don’t know what else to do?
Like my boys, if I came home and there was a broken window or something and I knew they did it and they said” I have no idea who did that?” with shrugging their shoulders.
I just had to laught at them as not to say “what do you REALLY think I am that stupid?, when you are holding the rock in your hand?
I am usually the kind of person that gives EVERYONE the benefit of the daoubt and I can’t wait to hear why Lee got immunity as I do think mostly he knows what is up as he did talk to Tony L, LP and others about the things going on as if to help find out some answers.
I guess I am hoping still that someone in this family shocks us all and tells something to get JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE!
George seems to be a passive aggressive personality. I do believe he has had substance abuse problems. Reminds me of the typical alcoholic.
Blink, I was listening to Dana Pretzer on Scared Monkeys radio and he interviewed Wendy Murphy who was talking about the Drew Petersen case, and they talked about what is and is not released to the media. She mentioned the Anthony Case, and pointed out what you and others have stated here many times; ie, it is what we are NOT hearing that is particularly damning. But she stated that she believes there is sex for hire or child porn somewhere in the evidence and we won’t hear about it until trial. Does she know something or is she just speculating? I admit that at the beginning of this case, I considered there might be something deep and sinister going on, but now it seems to me that if there were something like that, the defense would be leaking it like a seive and would have their patsy and sinister “other” to blame. So now I am not sure we are dealing with anything more sinister than an extremely disfunctional young woman and her equally disfunctional family.
new, Cindy had already called 911 when she was talking to Casey in the background, all caught on the 911 recording about ‘give me one more day and the ‘I’ve already given you a month’… etc. The 911 operator was transferring Cindy to another department as the two were heard chatting about this.
Lee laughed about everything he was nervous about.
new, there was also the smell of decomposition in the trunk, recognized by Cindy, recognized by George (nurse and ex-police officer both with prior experience with this smell), law enforcement, homicide officers, all recognized the odour as decomposition. And the k9′s indicating in the back yard, the car also, nevermind the air sampling being consistent with elements of human decomp, and there’s the tow yard personel, who recognized the smell, again from past experience.
It’s not going to be one thing or another, it’s one thing after another after another after another. And the defense will have to knock each and every point down, and confuse, and confuddle.
George’s self-questioning and answering technique– Blink, I wondered if it could be from prep’ing, and he’s facing a hard section and has to think, needs time…. flashing lights ‘LIE AHEAD”!
lol
B
Fellow Blinkers I am bringing some excellent posts up from the post below. I know how much we all await Maura’s posts and don’t want anyone to miss them.
I hope Maura doesn’t get mad with me. There are 3 excellent thought provoking articles so here go’s and whip me with one of Blink’s “noodles”.
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FROM MAURA:
Comment by Maura — August 21, 2009 @ 2:03 pm
I think Brad Conway knew he was taking on notoriously difficult clients when he agreed to represent George and Cindy. On September 4, Mark NeJame, criminal defense lawyer and media veteran, began representing them, and he was upfront in saying he had accepted them as clients because they were caught in a public relations nightmare caused, in part, by a mishandling of the media. Of that, there could be no doubt since on the same day NeJame confirmed his intent to represent them, Cindy released a nasty statement about Tim Miller and Leonard Padilla, claiming both had come to her under false pretenses.
In the ensuing weeks, violent confrontations between the Anthonys and protesters continued, Cindy told a reporter that Florida State Attorney Lawson Lamar was only prosecuting Casey for political gain, George called Holly Bristow of Fox News for an exclusive interview during which he said the grand jury’s true bills were a travesty, WFTV claimed George and Cindy had been calling national media outlets to auction off interviews, George and Cindy announced that Michelle Bart would be taking over as their official spokesperson, Cindy granted an exclusive interview with Local 6 News, and George and Cindy announced a press conference for the purpose of presenting evidence that Caylee was alive. When NeJame announced on November 20 that he was quitting as their counsel, he was candid in saying they were not allowing him to do his job because they refused to follow his advice.
While Mark NeJame was representing George and Cindy, Brad Conway was running for an Orange County Judge position in the November 2008 election. Conway lost with 40% of the vote to a female candidate who was the incumbent and who outspent him two-to-one.
It’s my opinion that Conway’s decision to represent George and Cindy was at least partly motivated by a desire for greater name recognition in order to make him a stronger candidate in a future election. He has confirmed that he is representing them pro bono, but I don’t know if George and Cindy contacted him or if he approached them after NeJame quit. At any rate, he certainly knew he was taking on clients whose behavior had proven unmanageable for Mark NeJame, a likeable, seasoned, and professional attorney who sincerely wanted to help them out of the hole they had largely dug for themselves. And whereas Mark NeJame had no reason on September 4 to know that George and Cindy would refuse to restrain their disastrous media activities and let him handle the situation, Conway had every reason to know that their obstinacy was incorrigible.
On December 11, a few hours after the media reported the discovery of a child’s remains in the woods on Suburban Drive, Brad Conway was announced as George and Cindy’s new legal representative. I don’t know when Brad Conway formally agreed to represent George and Cindy or what understanding they reached. Whereas Mark NeJame made it clear from the start he would not comment on Casey’s legal situation, Conway has made statements in support of Casey’s defense. Perhaps George and Cindy made support for Casey, even muted support, a condition of representing them.
If public exposure was a motive for Conway’s decision to represent them, then he’s had lots of opportunity to reflect on the adage “Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.” He started out fairly well (despite the typos) with a December 15 statement on behalf of George and Cindy that was released on his firm’s letterhead. He was gracious to LE for their assistance in January during George’s suicidal cry for help. He handled himself fairly well in pre- and post-memorial interviews in February, and IMO, he was very justified in asking the court to postpone the originally-scheduled December 22 civil depositions, to suppress George’s suicide note and to explore, on George and Cindy’s behalf, the possibility of having Casey participate in the February 10 memorial or a privately-arranged family meeting in the OC Jail. I think he was more than justified in the first two. He had to know that he wasn’t going to arrange a private meeting or get permission for Casey to leave the jail for a service, but that doesn’t mean he should be criticized for asking on behalf of George and Cindy.
However, has not, in my opinion, handled situations with credit since then. He should have anticipated legal and public pushback in filing a protective order on February 24 to prevent George and Cindy from being deposed two days later in the civil suit given that the Anthonys had participated in a publicized memorial service, the Anthonys had participated in a public Putnam County search for Haleigh Cummings, and George had appeared on Geraldo’s February 15 broadcast to discuss the Haleigh Cummings case. In a February 25 hearing with Judge Rodriguez, Conway argued that Cindy and George were too emotionally fragile to be deposed. A few weeks later, Judge Rodriquez noted that he had received many emails from outraged citizens pointing out that if George and Cindy were well enough to participate in the search for Haleigh Cummings, then they were not too emotionally fragile to participate in a deposition.
The April 9 civil suit depositions were a disgrace, and while we cannot know how well he attempted to prepare George and Cindy for the depositions, they certainly didn’t appear to have been prepared and he was taken to school for not preparing them. Conway gained some ground when George was allowed a break and returned with a much-improved attitude, but he lost it and much more after Cindy’s deposition. Moreover, he seemed to be struggling with the nature of the privilege, if any, that would protect George and Cindy from answering questions about Dominic Casey.
And I think Conway made a fool of himself during the May 13 Larry King Live interview with George and Cindy. During that interview, Conway claimed there was no hair on the duct tape (despite the fact that the December 20 search warrant spelled out the ME’s having needed to cut the hair to release the duct tape that was covering the mouth area of Caylee’s skull) and also claimed (in response to Larry’s question about heart-shaped sticker residue on the tape) that there was no sticker on the tape and people were drawing wrong assumptions from the discovery.
The derision that greeted news of the cancelled May 21 hearing due to Conway’s stated back problems is an indication that when the trial is finally over, Conway will have paid a high price for representing George and Cindy. The man is confined to a wheelchair and could very well have thrown out his back. But people online were not, for the most part, willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believed Conway was in perfect health and merely claimed to be indisposed to force a delay. When Keith Mitnik was ordered to appear before Rodriquez and state for the record that he, Mitnik, had cancelled the second (Lee-Luka) part of the hearing himself for “strategic reasons,” Mitnik was given a pass.
There are other things, but my conclusion is that Conway is stuck right now. He’s tried on many occasions to portray George and Cindy as reasonable people who want the truth and have not cut off any theories about Caylee’s demise. Almost as soon as he makes that claim, George or Cindy or both state in an interview that they want to know what happened but also know with 100% certainty that Casey is innocent of harming Caylee. As noted, Conway, unlike NeJame, had every reason to know that George and Cindy were going to do whatever they wanted to do, legal advice be damned, and what they choose to do usually requires damage control. He can’t cut himself free as NeJame did (without paying a price for either his representation or for quitting) because it will appear as if Conway very cynically grabbed the Caylee-case coattails only long enough to get a lot of national exposure.
FROM MAURA #2
***********Comment by Maura — August 22, 2009 @ 1:16 pm
106
Tropical Storm Fay did not drop any water on Orlando until August 18.
Orlando is a geographically large city, and rainfall in one area can be higher or lower than rainfall in another area. For instance, for August 2008 rainfall, the Orlando International Airport (OIA) total was 10.71 inches while the Orlando Public Works (OPW) rainfall average was 12.98 inches. The difference is that the OIA 10.71 inches only measured the rainfall at the airport weather station whereas the OPW 12.98 inches was the average rainfall for all areas in Orlando (obviously some areas of Orlando received more rain than OIA did).
The Suburban Drive lot where the remains were found is located in southeast Orlando, about two miles as the crow flies from the national weather station at OIA, so that is the data to use for the wooded lot. There is, I believe, an Orlando Public Works rain gauge located on Lee Vista Blvd. that is only about one mile from the wooded lot, but rainfall totals for that municipal station were not available online. Those Lee Vista rainfall totals would be better totals to use for the wooded lot (if they differed from the OIA totals), but I couldn’t find them.
The woods on the section of Suburban Drive between Hopespring Drive and Hidden Oaks Elementary school are several acres in size, but the land is not perfectly flat. The specific wooded lot where the remains were found is depressed relative to the surrounding area. The land slopes downward from Suburban Drive as is clear in the animated videos recently released by the SAO. That means that the specific location where the remains were found would collect water from the surrounding areas and would remain flooded long after the woods only a few hundred feet away had dried up.
It is therefore of no evidentiary weight that the videotape shot by Jim Hoover on November 15 and 16 shows dry land because that specific area was not as low as the specific area in which the remains were found. It doesn’t matter whether the area in the Hoover video was 50 feet away or 200 yards away (estimates have varied greatly) since the exact location of Caylee’s skull was in a depressed spot that was only feet away from the higher ground close to the curb on Suburban Drive.
The 2008 monthly OIA rainfall totals in inches were:
January: 4.10
February: 1.65
March: 5.15
April 1-30: 3.20
May 1-31: 3.48
June 1-30: 9.73 (4.23 by June 18)
July 1-31: 7.35
August 1-31: 10.71 (8.17 from TS Fay August 18-23)
September 1-30: 4.02 (1.06 by September 7)
October 1-31: 2.61 (1.74 by October 13)
November 1-30: 1.09 (0.44 by November 7)
December 1-11: 0.61**
In the six weeks prior to June 18 (when Casey dumped the body in the woods IMO), OIA had received 7.71 inches of rain. The Suburban Drive woods would have been getting wet at that point, and there may have been minimal standing water in the depressed area where the remains were ultimately found.
Between June 18 and August 11, OIA received 13.93 inches of rain. August 11 is when Kronk called in his first tip. When he met with Deputy Richard Cain on August 13, Kronk said there was standing water in the area where the remains were ultimately found. There was so much water that Cain wouldn’t go very far into the area. Moreover, on August 11, Gale St. John and her crew (The Body Hunters) were in that same area. On the videotape she shot, her daughter can be seen walking up to the tree line and can be heard on the tape (as she looked at the ground) saying (paraphrasing), “The water starts here.” That is perfectly consistent with the animated video released by the SAO because the slope begins right at the tree line. St. John said the water was high enough that it would have come to about mid-shin had anyone waded into it on August 11. Tropical Storm Fay had not moved into the Orlando area yet, but in the previous 10 weeks, nearly 18 inches of rain had fallen in that area, so Kronk and St. John were likely accurately reporting the existence of substantial standing water at the remains site on August 11.
The total rainfall for June, July, August, and the first week of September 2008 in the area of the Suburban woods was 28.85 inches. That is the amount of summer rainfall that had fallen at OIA when Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch (TES) conducted his initial search for Caylee. A lot of rain fell within the previous 90 days (more than one-third of that rain within the previous three weeks), so it was rain that accumulated. It didn’t have time to evaporate, and Orlando ground is so wet and close to sea level that the water sinks into the ground very slowly.
FYI – On September 6, David Lohr of Investigation Discovery (affiliated with the Discovery Channel) was participating in the search for Caylee. Lohr was with a TES K9 unit: One K9 handler told Lohr that they would have had an easier time during the search if Casey or her family had provided them with an item with Caylee Anthony’s scent on it. According to the handler, an item was requested from the family but they refused to provide one. That certainly should be brought up in the trial when the defense is arguing that areas had been “cleared” by TES prior to the finding of the remains.
By September 7, after 10 days of searching, Tim Miller said the tropical storm water was too high in many areas OCSO wanted searched, so the TES search was being suspended until those waters receded.
On October 13, Tim Miller returned to Orlando for a look at the ground in areas TES had not been able to search in early September because of standing water. He said the water was still too high. Not only was the summer water still high in many places, but in the five weeks between September 7 and October 13, an additional 4.7 inches of rain had fallen on OIA. Miller nevertheless said TES would return on November 8 to resume the search.
From October 13 to November 7, only an additional 1.31 inches of rain had fallen at OIA. The total rainfall in the two-month period between September 7 (when TES suspended searches) and November 7 (when TES resumed searches) was 6.1 inches. The extra rain kept the ground water from completely evaporating, but it was low enough (3 inches per month) that the groundwater had been able to recede.
Between November 7 and December 11, only 0.73 inches of rain fell, which greatly enabled the evaporation of the remaining standing water in the Suburban Drive wooded lot.
**It was raining on December 11 when LE responding to Kronk’s 911 call regarding the discovery of a child’s skull. The rainfall for December 11 was 0.53 inches, which was 87% of the rainfall for the month of December 2008. Only 0.08 inches of rain had fallen between December 1 and December 10.
OIA data was gathered from the Weather Underground website.
Outstanding Maura, thank you
B
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FROM MAURA # 3
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Comment by Maura — August 22, 2009 @ 4:03 pm
# 109 Shelly
IMO, there are many good reasons why he should keep tabs on the coverage of this particular case. I say that because Strickland has to make decisions in this case relative to Florida’s extremely liberal sunshine laws that he probably rarely or never must make in other criminal cases.
This case is highly unusual for the fact that the media has gone to the trouble of gathering the discovery and making it public. While the law permits the public to seek pre-trial discovery for every criminal case, the public doesn’t care about Joe Shmoe’s trial so the media doesn’t bother getting it. I don’t know of any trial like this one in which every scrap of discovery is sought and made public by media outlets and in which virtually everything the defendant does is reported on. There was a time when every stick of deoderant and every granola bar Casey ordered from the jail commissary was considered news-worthy.
It’s my opinion that the Florida lawmakers who voted to liberalize Florida’s open records laws to the extent that they did never anticipated that the discovery of any particular case would be used in the way that discovery has been used in the Anthony case. IIRC, the laws were liberalized in the late 70’s, long before personal computers and Internet culture. Because the laws are what they are, Judge Strickland is forced to release most of the discovery, so the fact that millions of people have read discovery material that is highly prejudicial to Casey (including material that may not be allowed into evidence at trial) is not something that Strickland can control for the most part.
But I won’t be surprised if this trial forces modifications of Florida’s open records laws, modifications that would strictly limit the scope of discovery that may be released prior to the trial. Transparency in government does not require the pre-trial release of discovery. It’s not at all on the same level as public access to the doings of legislative committees. I love reading and discussing the discovery in this case, but I’d never claim my rights as a citizen would be harmed if I had to wait until the trial to hear it or until after the trial to have full access to it.
Many rulings Strickland makes are all-but-required rulings relative to Florida law (such as his decision to release the autopsy report over the objections of George and Cindy). In a criminal investigation, the autopsy report is a key piece of evidence that will (without question) be introduced at trial, and the arguments to seal it until trial, while personally understandable, were not even close to being strong enough to allow him to override Florida’s sunshine laws regarding that particular piece of discovery. As he noted when he made the ruling, the autopsy report was very dry and clinical – just the facts, no editorializing. There was nothing inherently prejudicial about the report and nothing sensationalistic in it other than the gruesome content.
But on other rulings, he has more discretion (such as his decision not to release the medical-station videotape of Casey watching the news on December 11). That tape could be interpreted by the defense as Casey’s natural reaction to the news that a child’s skeleton had been found around the corner from her house, the location alone suggesting (as it did to everyone who heard the news) that the remains were those of Caylee Anthony or could be interpreted by the prosecution as indicating Casey’s guilty knowledge that LE had discovered where she dumped the body and Casey’s fear that the discovery of remains along with other evidence at the scene would expose Casey’s lie that she did not know what had happened to Caylee.
Judge Strickland’s decision to seal the December 11 videotape was made 1) because there was no indication that either party would seek to introduce the tape into evidence at trial and 2) because Strickland believed that the content of the tape was likely to be interpreted by most viewers as indicative of Casey’s guilt. He could well have drawn that conclusion (the correct one IMO) because he had been keeping tabs on coverage of the case and knew that widely-followed talk shows (Nancy Grace) don’t even try to maintain neutrality or objectivity when discussing released discovery.
I greatly respect Strickland and the rulings he’s made to date, and I appreciate that the publicity this case has generated is publicity – in great part – fueled by the discovery release. He understands that as well, and the combination of discovery and publicity in this case has required him to be aware of the discussion that the discovery fuels, hence the channel-surfing IMO.
Look at it this way – can you think of any other current murder case in central Florida (or anywhere) about which you know the names of the defendant, family members of defendant, witnesses, judge, prosecutors, defense attorneys, lead detectives, and expert witnesses? About which you can give a timeline of events? About which you can summarize the forensic evidence? Could you have defined forensic air sampling and cell pings before you started reading about this trial? I can answer NO to those questions.
You just reminded me of a discussion I had on CSO late last year after the defense announced on December 12 the names of the well-known forensic experts who had joined Casey’s defense team. The CSO member said she didn’t think it was right that all those experts were volunteering to help Casey when the defendants in virtually unknown murder cases did not get similar free help. But the way I see it is that those experts were drawn by the publicity, publicity that has grown and been fed by the discovery. To me, there’s a karmic balance going on there.
Granted, Casey’s own actions are what triggered public interest in the case (nightclubbing for a month after her baby daughter’s disappearance, a disappearance she apparently never intended to report to authorities), but the discovery is what has kept this case alive in the public’s awareness and created obsessive followers like me. I mean, look at the Melissa Huckaby-Sandra Cantu case. That was in March, and it very quickly faded from discussion after Huckaby’s arraignment because the authorities are making a mighty effort to keep the details quiet (and they were likely looking at the Anthony case as an example of what they wanted to avoid).
Very Interesting and insightful post Maura-
I concur in total with one exception. I dont think the state has ever indicated they would not use the video in trial, they did not fight the bjection imo, because the county really was at issue, and they would rather duck as a strategy manuver because everybody knew there was no way it was coming in prior to trial.
It was Macaluso (Hubolt) that argued to His Honor that he did not see any set of circumstances where that video comes into evidence. The actual probative vs. Prejudicial or innflammatory arguments have yet to happen
Silver, WSH, and fellow Blinkers thank you for explaining this all to us. Understanding the laws are so complicated and you all make it so clear.
I am an avid reader. I prefer nonfiction for the most part, and my true interest is true crimes. I have not had time to watch court TV or follow any of the high profile cases. I have never watched CSI. I am just not a TV watcher. I watch Dr. G sometimes late at night. (I did tape and watch all of the OJ trial),if that counts for a hill of beans. The most I have seen of Judge Judy is bits on a tv screen in a patients room.
Now, thanks to Ms. Blink, (and all you wonderful Blinkers), my following the Anthony case online has moved to a different level. I’m hooked on BOC and this case! (Family and friends are beginning to think I have gone off the deep end, what with buying headphones with a mike and downloading Second Life).
My question for the night. How many video’s taken from curosity seekers who traveled from all over the US to swing by the Anthony’s you think are out there that will have the crime scene shot from a passerby on it? Just driving around shooting shots? I bet a lot.
To Maura’s above post this was by Blink….she forgot to sign it lol:
Very Interesting and insightful post Maura-
I concur in total with one exception. I dont think the state has ever indicated they would not use the video in trial, they did not fight the bjection imo, because the county really was at issue, and they would rather duck as a strategy manuver because everybody knew there was no way it was coming in prior to trial.
It was Macaluso (Hubolt) that argued to His Honor that he did not see any set of circumstances where that video comes into evidence. The actual probative vs. Prejudicial or innflammatory arguments have yet to happen
B
Sorry Shelly, and thanks.
B
Agree with whoever it was (sorry, too lazy to scroll back up) who said George just ain’t too bright. Nor is Cindy, in my estimation. Lee “To This Day I Believe Everything My Sister Tells Me” Anthony? Nope. And gawd knows Casey isn’t. Had a flipping month to come up with a remotely plausible story about what happened to her daughter, and the best she could do was a fairy tale, and not even an interesting one, LE knew was carp before 24 hours were up.
Blink, heaven help me, I disagree with you about Till Tappin Todd (lol lol lol). With the exception of Baez (okay, and Conway … and Luka), I’ve never been so underwhelmed by an attorney. His delivery is petulant and whiny. And to date, he hasn’t said anything credible. I’ve heard “Casey is innocent.” I’ve heard “We have PROOF Caylee’s remains were left at the dump site while Casey was in jail.” Todd? Have you reviewed the details of the case at all, Todd?
I fear there aren’t enough migraine meds in the world to get me through a Baez, Macaluso, Kenney Baden triple play come trial time.
Shelley, thanks for bringing Maura’s excellent two posts to the current story– this way no one should miss them! As usual, Maura– KUDOS!! (not to be mistaken with KUDZU)
Blink,
That’s exactly what I thought.
I don’t even understand the logic of their argument. It makes no sense, what-so-ever. Smoke and mirrors.
As someone said upthread, it is not one thing, but thing after thing after thing after thing that supports Casey as the murderer. Her behavior is the most blatant and obvious indicator, combined with the decomp odor, the location of Caylee’s remains, all of the events that occured between June 15 and the time that Casey was finally arrested.
As for the comment that Cindy makes on the 911 call, about already having given Casey a month… to me that sounds like Cindy had been asking and asking for Caylee, and that Casey had not yet produced her, and Cindy was through waiting.
With regard to Cindy’s change in demeanor. ‘Member what I said earlier about meds. Prolly med change or increase. Whatever she is taking, she needs to see if she can get a second ‘script for George. He is “off the hook”.
I have been reading and reading for the last two day, whew…tired…
all you super smart folks out there, pertaining to the defense stating “they have evidence that the remains were placed in the woods after Casey went to jail” What is the law in regards to the defense releasing their evidence, if they have that when does it get released? I was hanging onto the edge of my seat waiting and waiting for the attorney to spit it out but never does.. There is so much released from the state when and if will the defense do the same or will they ever.
Please help me understand that process in simple terms…thanks again…going to try and research that myself, but anything you can give me helps!
# 258
“During that interview, Conway claimed there was no hair on the duct tape…..and also claimed (in response to Larry’s question about heart-shaped sticker residue on the tape) that there was no sticker on the tape and people were drawing wrong assumptions from the discovery.”
Maura,
He may have stated that about the hair, I don’t remember it , but I recall that he said that there was “no heart shaped sticker” on the duct-tape, which technically was true, because there was only residue in the shape of a heart on the duct tape. So he was splitting hairs…sorry for the bad pun.
#259-260
Good to see your posts, always!
This doesn’t have anything to do with the Caylee/Casey Anthony case, but I didn’t know how else to get intouch with someone. I’m not registered at SM yet, so I couldn’t leave a post there. I didn’t know if you knew about this missing lady named Kim Twaddell. I left you a msg on twitter. Here’s the link:
http://twitpic.com/ewmoz
Thanks, just thought ya might want to post it at SM or here.
#254 Carolyn
“I considered there might be something deep and sinister going on, but now it seems to me that if there were something like that, the defense would be leaking it like a seive and would have their patsy and sinister “other” to blame. So now I am not sure we are dealing with anything more sinister than an extremely disfunctional young woman and her equally disfunctional family.”
Yeah, I agree. I was keeping an open mind, after rumors and ‘that photo’ were circulating around the net, coupled with George’s statement about the photos he saw of his daughter, I thought, well, perhaps Casey was involved in some kind of sex industry. But as you said, there would have been leaks from the defense already. Although maybe, if true, it is more damaging rather than exculpatory for Casey?
Perhaps , if true, there was no way to tie any others involved, or there were no others involved: like a “Craigslist” type of solo act? I think that, if this were the case, someone even in the sheriff’s office would have had to tell someone, who would tell someone, etc etc, until it hit the media. It would be too juicy of a detail to not tell a wife or husband, for example.
Maura
What is CSO? Another forum?
# 111
Lily excellent point. I somehow missed this post earlier. I think that it’s possible that Casey had Caylee somewhere else first, but I couldn’t speculate where.
LILY’s POST:
“Ok – if the defense contends that the body was placed at the site while Casey was in jail – which nobody believes for a second – what about the fact that Casey has been in/out of jail? If the defense looks like they’re winning points on this – the state could argue that Casey told someone where the body was and it was moved by Casey or somebody else on Casey’s behalf. I just think this strategy is ridiculous.
Has anyone discovered what Baez said to George to make him burst into the Nejame meeting? Also many of the documents that are in evidence from Baez’s office often have all the signatures on the last page. Anything could have preceded those signature pages including ‘doctored’ contracts with Padilla.
Baez is not getting out of this one
B
Just highlighting a very strong point:
#259 Maura
FYI – On September 6, David Lohr of Investigation Discovery (affiliated with the Discovery Channel) was participating in the search for Caylee. Lohr was with a TES K9 unit: One K9 handler told Lohr that they would have had an easier time during the search if Casey or her family had provided them with an item with Caylee Anthony’s scent on it. According to the handler, an item was requested from the family but they refused to provide one. That certainly should be brought up in the trial when the defense is arguing that areas had been “cleared” by TES prior to the finding of the remains.
While I have no doubt that the site where the body was found was underwater at the time, this picture helped to put everything into perspective for me. I now have a better understanding of how difficult a search would be in the area.
(Information found on another site. Hope that’s ok!)
This picture was in the Sentinel, September 2008.
“Diane Latham and Jon Hansen bushwack in today’s search for Caylee Anthony conducted by EquuSearch covering an area near the Anthony home off Suburban Way.”
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2008-09/42027203.jpg
westside-
here is a link to one of many CSO threads on the case:
http://crimesearchersonline.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=31&func=view&catid=17&id=32267
Speaking about “karmic balance” involving this case – does anyone believe that finding the skeletol remains of Caylee was indeed that of “karmic balance”? If you think about all the vegetation, vines, shrubs, trees, leaves, difference in topopgraphy, knee deep areas of swamp-like water, no water, garbage, etc. that was located in that small area where the remains were found, (and for that matter – the whole wooded area pertaining to the search) then you would have to admit that finding the remains of little Caylee was like finding a needle in a haystack. There is no way a mere mortal like Kronk could have “easily” stumbled upon a “little skull” without some divine intervention. It had to have been a higher power that directed him that day. (Even if he was tipped off in some way and I am NOT saying that her was.)
I am not really sure what I believe when it comes to Dominic Casey, or for that matter St. John – the psychic, but between both parties, I think they had more information as to the whereabouts of little Caylee and yet neither one could find her remains in all that growth after they had scoured the area more or less in the same spot that Caylee was eventually found.
Blink
T Padilla was posting again yesterday on WS. Too many comments to cut & paste.
Is it okay to post a link?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums /showthread.php?s=906cb82b0527790371cc5d39a9edd98d&t=88033
If not, here are some highlights:
T Padilla
I was with Casey for about 2 hours the night she was freed from jail. She cried, she laughed, we talked one on one, she made me dinner, she listened, and she was nice to me. Maybe because of the circumstance. Again do I agree with what she probably/most likely did, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! All of my feelings are strictly based on my interactions and my life experiences. They have not crossed me and I do not want to cross them. However if they do then it will be hell to pay. You only get one chance with me.
It seems that I use my terms “love” and other adjectives describing people loosely and people are taking it very literal. I am going to stop that immediately.
This sounds crazy but as soon as I met Casey I knew something was not right. Look I am not a Psychologist but something there was off. Again she was nice to me speaks intelligently and showed a number of emotions that night. The interaction between the family ranged from Cindy holding Casey like a people to the entire family crying to laughing. A huge range of emotions that night. Remember that was the only time I was all of them. And JB was there as well.
sorry people should be BABY! Not sure what I was doing!
….Q: Do you have any knowledge of who is paying for Casey’s defence team?
Thanks
TP:
No I don’t but since I am part of the defense according to them shouldn’t I get a piece of that????
….Q: When you state that “something was not right” can you expand upon that? What exactly gave you this feeling, was it the way she looked, spoke, behaved, or none of these?
TP:
Sorry but I can’t right now.
….Q:Are you referring to the Grunds in the bolded statement? If that is the case, then a lot of your information came from the Anthony’s, correct? Who have an obvious agenda when it comes to the Grunds.
Thanks for coming here and answering our questions, Tony –
TP:
I got NOTHING from the Anthony’s about the Grunds. Investigating information from others. I cannot and will not go any further.
here’s a link to a June IM chat between Casey and Tony I hadn’t seen before
worth a look:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4770482/IM-History-with-L7Tone
#225- Blink George did break out the dockers day before yesterday however does this man not own a button down shirt? I’ve never seen him in anything other than a tee or polo shirt. ( expect for Caylees Memorial I forgot that )
Jan 207- surley your not saying that lying makes someone a murderer?
http://crimesearchersonline.com/
Ok– back to the Q: ‘Why did Baez call George to the stand yesterday?’
I’d like Silverspnr’s take on this one in particular, given a few points that we do know about.
1. The defense obviously wants to keep ALL of what the Padilla’s and crew have to say about who said what, demenours, work needed, threats received, etc, and circumstances to all that and more.
2. The defense could not call their client to the stand– or they could, but not smart. But what would they have asked her, within the confines of the motion discussed, about contracts signed etc. She may not have known much of that, expect to say ‘yes, bond me out now’.
3. George Anthony was not ‘the client’ but a family member, in whose home ‘the client’ lived and was staying before and between arrests, and while out on bond.
3. George Anthony had nothing to do with the agreement(s) between the bondsman and others, as signed in Baez’s office apparently, but did arrange ‘something’ at a warehouse or office building meeting with the Flam-C-Boy, cousin and crew.
George was called to the stand and Baez focussed his questioning on the actual ‘work’ that these three men and one woman, did in and around the home.
George offered concerns of himself, his family, and daughter, being under constant threat, not of bodily harm or nuisance, obstruction of their entry ways, but actual ‘threats against George’s life, the life of his wife, life of his daughter….etc’.
George offered nothing about Padilla or crew, ‘looking for Caylee’, nor about the well-known position of the person under the big hat, that ‘once Casey gets out of jail, has a hot shower, feels comfortable and safe type thing, she will be able to tell more, and help find her baby’. (we know that did not happen, Casey had to go make spaghetti dinner instead and never mentioned the word ‘Caylee’ even while Tim Miller spent some hours with her and the family in the house).
George stated on cross, that ‘maybe he [Padilla] could take it that far’ [going from secutity people to go look for Caylee] but George didn’t seem that’s what would happen under their jobs as muscle with walkie-talkies.
So, George’s whole deal on the stand, was to support ‘THREATS of LIFE against each family member’.
NO ONE asked directly who threats were from, did they call law enforcement to trace the threats that came or might come by telephone? (instead, didn’t they all worry about bugs on phones and lawyer had the phones checked???)
Wouldn’t one MAJOR way to find a kidnapper, would be to monitor any and all incoming calls, trace number to locations as only a proper authority could do? (look how long it’s taking for Baez to get one set of pings for Tony– over a year! Kidnap victims beware!!)
So, obviously the family was NOT seeking help to find Caylee from these ‘security only’ folks. George goes back to head in sand, but not until he goes out and buys a gun, presumably to handle the situation himself if need be.
Seems that Judge Strickland’s court could have seen the testimony of this witness to perpetrate a sham on the jury pool, in concert with the stunt the Anthony’s pulled on NeJame and Miller yesterday (Cindy was right– don’t you dare go to war with the Anthony family, Tim– you will not win, I’m warning you, don’t try it etc etc), and Todd Mac’s presentation of his argument ‘she’s innocent, the baby was planted there and we have PROOF of her innocence (for potential juror ears), then Baez attacking NeJame for his photos to the news etc.
Ms. D-B did not ask the question about ‘who’ was threatening the family’s lives, where the threat was coming from, did they report, ask for call monitoring etc. But in not doing so in some limited form, did Baez get away with presenting threat to lives as ‘fact’ that goes to the kidnapping defense and SOD and proof of the body being moved to the site while Casey was in jail?
No one asked WHEN George became first aware from Casey, indirectly or directly, as to ‘threats’ that Casey had later said she’d been working under for 31 days, protecting all the family, etc. That seems to have come at some later point, not the night of the 15th certainly, maybe not until Baez could plant the idea?
Should Judge Strickland have narrowed George’s testimony to his knowledge of the facts of the security people’s agreement once he saw (if he did) that this was as much a play to the jury pool as anything we’ve seen before?
Comment on the self-questioning that G does. I truly belive that that behavior is part of being a liar, but not a very good one (like Cindy who happens to be very quick on her feet). I used to date a guy who had two teen-aged kids who were always doing bad things … sneaking out of the house, staying out all night, drugs, even heard rumors that the girl was the slut of the neighborhood. It didn’t take me long to realize that every time their father would ask them a question about something they did or were going to do or almost any topic, they would say “what?”. I heard the question, everyone else in the room would hear the question, but they would say “what?” every single time. IMO that was their way of giving themselves just a few more seconds to think of the right answer, not necessarily the true answer, but the one they knew he would accept. After a few years of that, I told him what I thought was happening. He was totally surprised and said he’d never noticed. George is doing exactly the same thing… giving himself that extra time to think of the answer he’s supposed to give. And that’s because he’s not very bright.
I also used to work with a woman who was a pathological liar, but was also the smartest woman I’ve ever met and was well-known in the field in which we worked. She, too, when asked a question, would not hesitate even a second before answering it, whether her answer was the truth or not!
So, in addition, the State of Florida and it’s ‘sunshine law’, are responsible by the fact of Todd Mac’s ‘proof’ of Casey’s innocence, that someone else placed ‘the remains’ (didn’t see George jumping up and objecting to the use of that word as he did to KM in the depo) there after the STATE released the jail videos, knowing full well that Casey says she has a gut feeling ‘she’s close to home’ and ‘she’s close to HOLT’ depending on which video.
It is the state’s fault that Casey told the kidnappers ‘publicly’ where to dump the remains. But did the state also cause the person with Caylee, to kill the baby?
Could George have prevented the baby from being killed at some point when Casey was in jail, by allowing the FBI full co-operation to track any incoming calls from the night of the 15th? Or even get help from friends (Richard Grund’s offer to start ‘shaking trees’ if it wouldn’t cause problems for Caylee).
Might be interesting what Mr. Campbell has to say and how beligerant he will be to the court and law enforcement on behalf of George. What was HIS role– did he think, like everyone else, that the search was on for a live Caylee? Or was he ‘security’ only too– baby was dead anyway.
The state better start preparing for, as Super Dave Osborne said ‘for every eventuality’.
I promise you, George is going to regret that 3 minutes of testimony. I have every confidence Burdick has a statement from Campbell that specifically references to hearing conversations behind closed doors. That and he needs to lose the phrase “that’s not relevant”. Jim Campbell met Tim Miller before George did.
B
#268 Lindsay I just saw that Kim Twaddell’s body has been found. I’m very sorry.
(and we know how often even the Super One, with all his preparations, crashed and burned)
Blink,
Not to make this a gross post or a disrespectful post I will keep it clean, since it was brought up here I will mention it, I did see a very pornographic photo of Casey (or a good look alike)I seen it months ago when researching this case, however, now it has been altered to not be so vulgar. I will not post the link as I think that would be comepletely disrespectful to this site and the memory of this beautiful little girl.
My question is have you seen this photo, and could it truly be what CA was involved in to support what #254 was refering to.
Please forgive me if I am out of line I would never intentionally try to discredit this site and the people who visit here, I am not into to following myths only truth. I have never spoken about it here or shared this as I only try to follow the facts, but since it was brought up I thought it ok to at least share what I saw.
my aplogies in advance if I have offened anyoone, it is truly not my intention.
I saw it several months ago, thanks for the respectful way you brought it up. I prefer not to speculate on it though.
B
I have a theory about Casey’s crying at the hearing on Friday. Near the beginning of the proceedings, she started picking at her eyelashes and rubbing her eye. My first thought was that she was having a problem with her contact lenses. When I used to wear lenses, I would do the same thing, especially pulling on the lashes. I think that’s something that everyone who wears lenses does. Your body’s natural reaction to a foreign substance in the eye is that your eyes start to tear (a lot) and they get red. I think maybe she saw this as an opportunity to fool people into thinking she was crying. Because as we all saw, there really wasn’t any heavy breathing or shoulders moving as happens when people are really crying. This was all pretty much about the eyes. Thoughts?
When I start to fear that Caeey will NOT be convicted, I have to stop myself. The best she can hope for is a hung jury in my opinion. All jurors are NOT going to ignore EVERRYTHING like Baez wants them to. A hung jury is a GOOD thing for the prosecution – it gives them an opportunity to tighten up their case.
I look at Baez and his motions and tactics and think he must have gotten his law degree from a Cracker Jack box. Still, he is activelyl pursuing a defense for his client which means an ineffective counsel appeal will fail. There is no appeal for a stupid attorney.
thanks Blink I understand completly and fill the same way, that is why I have held my tongue on this particular situation, again my apologies.
no apology necessary, it was a fair and well stated question.
B
I think Casey was crying not for the loss of Caylee but the fact that it is all coming to a head, The Jig is Up and I think she finally knows it, she knows her “Beautiful Life” is over!
ChicagoJudy, they say sociopaths can emulate emotion, and Casey’s had time to learn and practice a few techniques– I’ve read that they can ‘cry’ as a learned behaviour. Of course, it could be true that Casey was crying for her own situation.
Cindy did have her plan complete, with the final bit her speaking of Casey’s emotion as ‘touching’ to the cameras. Well rehearsed week… George was tossed out for criticism and future problems, but it was more important for the defense to get the media spin about the body planting and INNOCENT repeated, than to deal with the problems caused.
All fit together nicely, from the NeJame spoiler to the ‘it was very touching’ moment on camera.
Anyone notice how the Sunshine Law itself, is being used to ‘create’ and even manipulate the perception of ‘evidence’? I don’t think that was the intent of transparency.
Here is the biggest reason, and the most troubling observation for me, that has always made me believe in Casey’s guilt from day one. John Allen and Yuri Melich, in particular, are very intimidating figures. I say that affectionately, as they are funny, kind, compassionate men with families. That said, if I ever sat across from one of them, in a similar circumstance, let alone two, I would admit to being the Zodiac Killer.
I will never get past that day at Universal, and that conference room interview. That girl is a narcissistic sociopath with a chaser of disassociative who knows no fear.
..”Stop me when I get to the part that is untrue..” John Allen… I never looked back and I will never understand how her parents keep this up.
B
dee, I think you did that VERY well– it’s not about sensorship on this site I think, just keeping things from going awry. I don’t see any apologies necessary, we should be able to bring up things in a way just as you did. Good job.
btw, ChicagoJudy, good observations on the eyelashes, will have to watch for that. It’s almost too bad that the camera can’t have a set wide view for the whole proceedings.
So much can be missed– like this, and like WHO Cindy was giving a ‘thumbs up’ to as they entered– was this whole week a ‘Cindy’ orchestration, of George’s rude rant on the Miller photos, etc… She’s the ‘MEDIA QUEEN’ no doubt! Who was she giving that ‘good going’ sign to… and for what??
Her living “La Vita Loco” or what ever that stupid tat read is OVER!
i am not one to talk about peoples looks,unless there is a reasonable reason,but when casey put on all that weight in jail,i took that,and i thought about it ,as my own personal sign of guiltiness,from two angles,she was clubbing, hot bodying,menu list for early morning workout,hot shot girls,narcissistic girl very concerned with looks, i felt that she nots processing the guilt thru the right channels and that since she was not talking to police or family visits, the guilt must be welled up inside her,and manifesting in other ways,ie:over eating. Now that she’s lost the weight(thru throwing up (the dark circles)and maybe displine)(i dont think the extra weight was natural for her body),I now see the spots(out ,out damn spot),she’s not rubbing her hand anymore ,those arent freckles or pimples are they?they are moles,and they werent there before ,could sun bring those out?does she sit by a window? have outdoor time? anyway,just thinking a pinoccio type of karmic remedy for the narcissist;massive beAUTY SPOTS ALL OVER.i hope they dont keep growing
Hi Blink, I’m clueless about GA’s Q&A testimony.
And may I also be a bit snarky and ask what the hell is he doing in court in casual khaki slacks and a golf shirt? Surely a retired cop knows you show respect for the judge, his courtroom, the proceedings and the law, not to mention the victim (his supposedly beloved granddaughter), by dressing in proper court attire. Cindy looked like she was attending an outdoor barbecue, too.
Casey looked like crap, as well. Can’t they get her something better to wear than that? I realize she’s gained a few pounds, so her clothes probably don’t fit anymore, but Cindy and George could spring for a new outfit for court, couldn’t they?
susanm, only problem is, Casey does not feel ‘guilt’. She’s not compensating for her loss of her child by eating or clubbing, she’s not compensating for anything, but catching up on her own desires, thinking only of herself.
Yes, dark circles– poor thing is wearing down– well, hey… that’s easy to cover with a bit of make up that she must still have a good supply of, from the jail canteen. Purposeful NO make-up. No freshly washed and coiffed poofed bun in hair matronly look, no librarian glasses. It’s probably reflected in Ms. L’s approach of how to look like a regular ‘Woolworthian’ vs a formal ‘state’ type lawyer. There is a reason Ms. L. makes her personal statement as she does– no Tammy Faye is she! (even Cindy had a low-key make-up look, to give her a more ‘worn’ thinner face look, no hiding behind her spiffy sun-glasses. More everyday approach.
Anyone think that sometime soon, Mr. Baez will be raked over the coals by Ms. Lyon and they’ll have it out, head to head on who is ‘lead’ and who has ultimate control? Is there a plan in his flubboonery as he continues to appear to be lead counsel?
No, I don’t. I think that team will implode because 2 of it’s members are facing possible disbarrment
B
#278 Silver:
That was very interesting. I had not seen it before. It seems that Casey was also telling Tony that her parents were “moving out” in 3 days. This girl just amazes me. I know she is a sociopath, for sure, but it almost seems to me that there is something else wrong with her on top of that. I don’t know.
So, what does she do at the end of the 3 days? Tell Tony that they changed their minds? And, poor Amy is so convinced that she’s moving in, she starts having her belongings sent to the Anthony address. It’s just crazy. How does she get out of her lies with these people? It just seems to me that people (her friends) would be onto her after a while.
I think one of the things that makes me SO angry about all of this is the fact that Casey Anthony did not only take her own baby’s life, but she has ruined so many other people’s lives, and continues to do so. All of these innocent people are being dragged into this, and their personal business is all over the place. And, now they also have to get lawyers to protect themselves.
I just feel so bad for all of these people. Especially poor Amy. She was so trusting, and she got so screwed.
great point, Blink. There was not fear, no avoidance, no innate human reaction to stop that pressure from happening from Allen and Melich, and the attack on them came after she was out of their immediate control.
What is the glue that keeps this family, as individuals, from crumbling under this pressure? There is some common bond that they have vowed, and must keep, and that if Silverspnrs thoughts are correct, there is something that they commonly are withholding.
BTW, what happened to the cocker spaniels? Old age?