Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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Another question I have as long as there is speculation~why doesnt that 3rd grader who says he is Kyrons best friend ~the Pumala boy~ ever give anyone eye contact(during the video) while he giving his account of the last day anyone saw Kyron or show that he is dismayed…They live in a house boat now on Sauvies Island where supposedly the red Mustang & white truck were racing around ~ ? just wondering what the heck~ We know the owners of Sauvie Island’s farms personally for many yrs ~ & there are so many areas a lil person could be it is mind bogling but then where we live there have been two people “dumped ” in the past couple of yrs and finally found. I cannot imagine someone having so little regard for the life the Good Lord has given us ~!
I really do not believe — with any fiber of my being — that the LS Rudy (or anyone else) kidnapped Kyron for their own purposes, and that Terri happened to stumble upon this. If this were the case, Terri would’ve gone to the police and she would not be stonewalling now. There is nothing she could’ve done that would be worse than willful abduction/murder.
It is my opinion that Terri was the catalyst for Kyron’s disappearance. I am 95% leaning towards the idea that she kidnapped him herself, 5% toward the idea that she had someone else grab him.
On the slim chance someone else did grab him (for her), I believe his fate was decided by Terri.
I do not believe Kyron was sexually assault; I do not believe that was the motivation for his abduction. I firmly believe it was Terri’s plot/plan to get back at Kaine for some wrong/perceived wrong. I believe it there was a sexual reason, that it was because Terri was having an affair and Kyron was a risk she couldn’t afford to take; or because Kaine was, or she convinced herself he was having an affair.
I believe there is a good possibility she had/has mental stability issues.
I don’t believe a stranger just happened to be in the right time and the right place to grab Kyron.
In essence, I don’t really believe is some overly-complicated matter. I believe the simple answer is the most likely, Terri did something to Kyron to get back at her husband. And she had a friend(s) help her cover it up.
Over the course of two months, and all the speculation, and the little information that has trickled out, my opinion has not wavered from that basic idea. I see nothing that would make me deviate from tht line of thinking.
Anyways, just summing up my feelings on the case.
Midwest Mom says:
August 3, 2010 at 12:52 am
Question about dede and her 90 min lunch…we,the public,only learned of dede a couple of weeks ago. Correct? Does anyone know how long she has been on LE radar? Did these co-workers submit their concern about dede when Kyron first went missing and dede questioned at that time? Or did LE question them a couple a weeks ago when the family was imploring her to cooperate?
Sorry if I missed this mentioned somewhere. I can’t help thinking why 2 people remembered the details regarding dede if it happened 6 week earlier. I don’t remember what I was doing at a certain time a week before. And I certainly wouldn’t be able to say what someone else was doing 6 weeks prior!!
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I don’t really have a hard time believing that DeDe’s employer and co-worker would remember this information weeks later. I don’t know if they went to LE right way (I’d hope so), but, I think it’d be pretty easy to recall something like “I went to call DeDe in for lunch, and she was nowhere to be found.” That would be odd, that DeDe would leave her jobsite without telling anyone, especially if DeDe was expected to be eating on the job.
I certainly would expect that lunch plans were discussed that day, if not prior.
According to LE, it’s reported DeDe left the house abruptly. We don’t know if this means someone SAW her run off, or if there were pre-existing plans (for lunch) that she didn’t show up to. I tend to believe that by use of the phrase “she left abruptly” means someone saw her take off.
It was then stated that the homeowner attempted to reach DeDe on her cell phone, but was unsuccessful.
So perhaps a scenario of: Lunch was to be at Noon. Coworker either sees DeDe prior to that and has planned to take lunch with her, but notices she’s suddenly gone; OR coworker notices DeDe taking off, without telling where she is going.
Coworker goes to homeowner and informs her that she either saw DeDe leave and doesn’t know where she went, or that she was trying to find DeDe for lunch, but that she was gone. Homeowner attempts to call DeDe and gets no answer. I think that’s a pretty simple and likely scenario; and one that would be memorable a few weeks down the road. The fact that someone disappeared from their job site would stick with you. Perhaps it even irritated coworker and/or homeowner.
I did want to address a comment, and I can’t remember who made it. But, someone either suggested that DeDe’s truck never left the job site, and that DeDe forgot her phone that day.
I believe it was someone here who was relating a post someone else made at a different board.
Anyways, I tend to believe that is b.s., posted by an instigator or someone attempting to deflect suspicion away from DeDe’s actions.
I believe the first thing coworker and/or homeowner would’ve noticed, was if DeDe’s car was still there. I believe it WASN’T still there; otherwise they would not have said “she left abruptly”. They would have said “she disappeared and we didn’t know what happened to her, because her car was still there”.
So, it’s my belief that DeDe did in fact leave the job site.
As far as the cell phone; well that’s something we can’t really ascertain ourselves, nor from the comment of the coworker or the homeowner. All we know is that the homeowner attempted to call DeDe on her phone. Whether DeDe had her phone with her that day, we don’t know; and we have no way of knowing whether the homeowner was aware of that fact.
At the very least, the homeowner assumed DeDe had her phone on her, otherwise why try to call her? Which brings me to a question. I don’t believe we know the answer to this; but I would be interested in how long DeDe had worked for this specific homeowner? Had she worked there before, or was this her first day?
It may not make a difference, but, if this was DeDe’s first day, perhaps she provided the homeowner with her phone number that morning; which why would DeDe give her cell phone number if she didn’t have her cell phone on her?
Now this may be a moot point. It’s possible that the homeowner was given DeDe’s number prior to that day, and that they had talked on the phone before, perhaps with regards to what the homeowner expected to be done. Or, if DeDe had worked there prior to that day, she may have provided the homeowner her cell phone number earlier.
I mean it could be nothing, but it wouldn’t be hard to imagine that if the job site was large, DeDe might’ve provided her cell number so that the homeowner didn’t have to hunt her down on the property. IF they hadn’t spoken on the phone by that point, it wouldn’t be hard for me to imagine that she gave her number that very day. And again, why would someone say, “here’s my number if you need to reach me”, if they knew they didn’t have their phone that day?
With regards to Brian Pumala; I had believed initially that he possibly was involved with Terri, in an affair kind of way.
I personally no longer believe that to be true. It seemed pretty obvious from the start that Terri was having some kind of affair(s). I believe that the involvement of Brian’s son Tanner in the timeline led me and others to believe that Brian was the one Terri was having an affair with.
That is not to say that they didn’t have an affair in the past, but I don’t believe there’s sufficient evidence that they were having one when Kyron disappeared, and that Pumala was the one who made him disappeared. JMO, but that is a very remote possibility at this point. It seems that Terri was involve in an affair with LandScaper Rudy sometime prior to Kyron going missing, and Kaine’s hs friend Michael Cook, post-Kyron’s disappearance. I don’t really see Brian Pumala fitting in there.
I think there is circumstantial “evidence” that would lead to him being a suspect; like Terri’s phone pinging on Sauvie Island after Kyron’s disappearance; the place where BP just happens to live. And the fact that, for a while, BP’s son happened to allegedly be the last person to see Kyron.
However, I don’t think that “evidence” holds up at this point. I believe Tanner became involved because his grandmother was either seeking some kind of 15 minutes of fame; or that she truly believed Terri was innocent, and she had coaxed her grandson to provide an alibi of sorts; by suggesting Kyron was at the school after Terri had left.
As to BP and Sauvie Island? I believe perhaps Terri might have had an affair with him in the past, and perhaps after she’d done what she’d done, she sought him out to help her cover things up; but found that he was not at home or otherwise unwilling to see her. So, then she turns to DeDe to help her out…
Just a theory.
But, it could be anything really. Perhaps she had a prior affair with BP, and after doing whatever she did to Kyron, she attempted to take him to Sauvie Island to try and pin the blame on BP; either out of revenge for having been dumped, or just being a sociopath looking for someone else she could blame. Ex: If Kyron was found on SI, on or near Pumala’s property, Terri could claim that either Pumala did it to get back at her, or that he was trying to blackmail her into having a fling with him.
Obviously just speculation on my part, but I don’t put anything past most people anymore.
Were Terri and DeDe lovers, and Kyron saw something that he should not have? What kind of human being is Terri where she does not miss holding the baby and doing Mother things; She sure is a piece of work. Maybe what those 2 knuckleheads need is to be put in a room and have someone knock some sense into thier brains………..
I know this is blog is about Kyron, but I just read where the missing 2 yr old from AZ is presumed dead. Obviously somebody in that case cracked and talked. This is what USUALLY happens and that it hasn’t happened in Kyron’s case still confuses me. For the life of me I can’t understand it.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/02/arizona.missing.toddler/index.html?hpt=T2
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
6.julie says:
August 2, 2010 at 7:00 pm
RE: #16 Julie’s comment on August 2, 2010 at 1:48 pm re the local (Portland, OR)
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I wondered about the timing of the story myself. . . The articles also shed light some on the behind the scenes work of LE. They showed the heart somewhat within LE. I think this might help people better understand the work that LE is doing behind the scenes on our little Kyron
**********
I agree. And I thought the same thing. The last detective told the family “The detectives did really thorough work” or something like that. It reassured me also. Poor little Mona.
Sometimes the perpetrator will give up the location of the body in exchange for a guarantee that he will be able to serve his sentence in a certain prison.
Many of our prisons are essentially run by gangs, with connections between inside and outside prison.
Prosecutors are increasingly having difficulty obtaining cooperation from witnesses who are have immigration status problems, shall we say.
If the perp is subject to these forces, he is between a rock and a hard place. And, possibly, a material witness to the crime is as well.
Perhaps DeDe did have her cell phone on her person..re the phone call she received right before she left. When she left, she probably did not want to be found for awhile, so she put her cell phone in her vehicle, so it could be traced there, and not to her exact location?? Also her employers had told her that they were preparing lunch for the workers, so obviously something from the phone call prompted her to leave, and not stay for lunch.
@NancyS I know what you mean about the comments on that site, I could only read a little before I felt the same way you do. It may be just how they clean their comment boards up I dunno and the only reason it caught my attention was because I was tryin’ to find something that somebody had said earlier on it.
Like most I feel TH is the reason this little boy is missing, what her part in it is I reckon’ we’ll just have to wait and see. I can understand the opinions that are being conveyed by those that think she is a sociopath, even though if she were a true sociopath I don’t think she would have even thought to try and act the way she did at the first press conference, IMO she would have exhibited the behaviour of a bystander as she would not have thought she had done anything wrong. Having said that, I have to add this, if she is a sociopath and somehow managed to have “friends” help her cover the adbuction and possible murder of a 7 year old child what “behaviour” problem do they have?
Manipulation is best done on a one on one basis, those of us that have lived with sociopath’s know this. I would think once the physical connection with the manipulator is severed someone would have to talk, and by that I mean make the first move to LE, not have LE come to them with the threat of a grand jury or the promise of immunity. Once again this is MHO.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2010m8d3-Kyron-Horman-case-update-Parents-of-missing-Oregon-boy-testified-before-grand-jury-Monday-video
31.FLGirl says:
August 3, 2010 at 4:06 am
“In essence, I don’t really believe is some overly-complicated matter. I believe the simple answer is the most likely, Terri did something to Kyron to get back at her husband. And she had a friend(s) help her cover it up.”
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I totally agree with your post, FLGirl. If TH had anything to do with it, I think her motive was simple: to get back at Kaine for some perceived wrong. I also think this crime involved only one of two individuals at most.
But, I still cannot get past the notion that this just may have been a stranger abduction. It is possible that all of TH’s drama is just that—drama. We have had predators take children from their bedrooms, malls, front yards, etc. Anything is possible with these perps. That said, I have to admit the focus of the investigation has definitely been TH.
I’m really starting to worry that we are never going to know what happened to Kyron. I sure hope LE has more information than what is leaking out.
So since Kaine, Desiree and Tony were with the Grand Jury, we can guess this is about Kyron’s case and not the MFH, correct? And since Terri is the only one not being called in front of the GJ, we can guess that she is the one they are seeking an indictment for, correct?
Blink- do you still think the GJ could return an indictment against someone else in addition to Terri? If so, Who? DeDe? Landscaper Lover?
I’m guessing since DeDe was called to testify, the indictment isn’t aimed at her…but I’m new to this stuff
@SS:
Suppose Terri had no knowledge of the planned crime until after the fact. She’d have no reason to create an alibi. Maybe she just enjoyed some free time, amongst her errands. MAYBE, she went to Sauvie Island to visit some friends who live on a houseboat???
TO: #32.FLGirl says:
August 3, 2010 at 4:06 am
Our minds play to all different theories and after two months of revelations regarding this case I think yours makes the most sense. Although, I think if a friend were involved it was “unwittingly”.
32.Mom of 3 says:
August 2, 2010 at 10:33 pm”Not all stepmom’s are wicked like in the fairytales, sometimes there are happy endings. I hope and pray there is one for sweet Kyron and his parents.
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Back at cha, sister! What an uplifting stepmom story. You sound like one hell of a woman.
I used to say, “Just great. I pray to God for a husband and children and he sends me somebody elses.” I even avoided him like the plague when he told me he was divorced with 2 little G I R L S. But they eventually won me over. I do, however, allow myself to be evil once in a while. Just alittle. It’s good for them. It builds character.
Example: “NO, you can’t go to COLLEGE, your stepmother needs Daddy to pay for a midlife boob-lift and tummytuck!” Only kidding. I just love teasing them.
@SS:
Gosh, yes. It is our worst nightmare scenario. But just because we don’t want to believe it’s true, doesn’t mean it isn’t.
Sickos who plan this stuff plan very carefully for the disposal of the body. If size is a problem the body is usually dismembered, but could just have bones broken for easier stuffing.
I don’t see a problem with, at some point in that day at school, removing a living (bound, gagged, duct-taped, etc) child or a dead one in a container. Commercial size gear-bag; mulching container; commercial size poly-coated fertilizer bag. My LE and FBI friends last weekend didn’t really want to discuss this much (too much like their work, I suppose), but they did agree with the general idea.
I see no reason why Terri has to be forced into the puzzle at that particular time and event. What evidence do we have that says she HAS to have known right then and there what was going on? Or, that she masterminded it?
Angelab-
I’m trying to find incidents of abductions or attempted abductions that occurred inside the school to see how they were able to get away with it or almost get away with it. These sickos are sneaky and cunning and little children can be so trusting. We need to remind our children of the dangers without scaring them too much. Remind them that knowledge and awareness and a plan for action in the event of a dangerous encounter equals power over it. I’m no expert in these things, God knows I’ve scared the kids enough just being me, but I’m serious when I say there are too many sicko creeps out there praying on little kids and we have to change the rules since many are brazen enough to go after them in their own homes and school yards! Even if Terri did hire someone to snatch up Kyron from school, how come there are no security cameras anywhere. You can’t go into a Louis Vuitton store to look at a $500. keychain (I know, Paris Hilton the second dragged me into one.) without passing through armed guards lined up like the secret service, but aren’t our little kids worth so much more than that?
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8.angelab says:
August 2, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Phyl, I hate to hear about another creep trying to take a child. What is wrong with people?? Every single day almost a child is missing or hurt or almost kidnapped or…killed. Ugh. Enough.
In today’s Oregonian
“Investigators have been focusing on Terri Moulton Horman’s close circle of friends after learning that one of them obtained new cell phones for her so she could avoid investigators’ scrutiny after becoming the focus of the inquiry into the disappearance of her 7-year-old stepson.”
Isn’t that special.
Link to the article: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/multnomah_county_shericomb_thr.html
@Blink- Whoa…I noticed my comment re disposable phones was in mod status for quite a while. This morning, after doing some work, I looked to see if there was any new news re Kyron, and ran across Valhall’s article referencing possible additional phone(s) being provided by Spicher. Uhm…wow…yeah, I would say that is damning evidence. The ONLY reason someone who has regular phone service would use those things is to communicate off radar. Whoa. Maybe that’s what she was buying the day Kyron went missing? Or they found evidence of her buying them another time? Gotta wonder, were they purchased before June 4? That would be the most damning evidence (of pre-meditation).
Sorry, had kidfest.
B
Blink, other than Anselmo Sanchezsanchez, is there a second “landscaper” currently being held in connection to this case? I cannot find anything to substantiate this other than it being mentioned in earlier comments. I’ve been looking for over an hour, did I miss it?
“Investigators have been focusing on Terri Moulton Horman’s close circle of friends after learning that one of them obtained new cell phones for her so she could avoid investigators’ scrutiny after becoming the focus of the inquiry into the disappearance of her 7-year-old stepson.”
Wow… my dad says—, “If you lie in bed with dogs, you’re going to get fleas.”
I have some AMAZINGLY wonderful, devoted friends who I know would do anything for me. But, I promise you, NONE of them would get me a new cell phone so that I could “avoid investigator’s scrutiny” after the disappearance of my step-child! It seems to me, Terri has a nice little group of horrible people who surround and protect her.
I’d say, with friends like these, who needs enemies, but her little group of flunkies seem to protect her almost like mafia families protect each other. The question is—are the protecting HER, or are they protecting themselves? How big is Terri’s web of “friends?” And what have they done that they’re so afraid of that they’ll hide information and continue to try to elude investigators?
Yesterday Judi’s question to everyone of is it still plausible to us all that Kyron is still alive struck me and the answer for me was Yes. Logic says no but the heart/my actions says Yes. My daily routine has been altered to make time for keeping up on Kyron developments and I am always looking when I am out in public. I realized after my post yesterday, that Terri’s silence now is most likely not about money (trying to insert sane thoughts into the insane) and it probably has much to do with who is smarter than who, getting even & parents suffering. Anyway, it brought me back to the beginning when Kyron’s plight 1st broke & how suprised people were when they learned Terri was not the bio mom, the 911 calls prior, the white truck in the neighborhood at odd hours, Terri & DeDe’s unexplained gap in time, the vehicles racing around Sauvie Island and Rudy Sanchez stepping up w/the murder for hire story. I also thought about some of the early scary postings & 1 in particular; he is in the open, seen but unseen.
So today’s theory is (put down your coffe cups, no spitting) what if Rudy S had taken Kyron to get back at Terri (thinking she was mom) and she found out, hence the driving around, needing DeDe’s help etc. Knowing that Rudy is an illegal immigrant I have been thinking about types of work that I.I. perform and migrant workers come to mind. These people are transient, live way below poverty level, mosly non-English speaking, limited to no access of media and tend to keep their children with them while they work and fly way below our radar. I looked on the net and yes they work in all agricultural areas throughout the U.S. (Oregon counties were listed by 1k – 10k in populations) So could it be that Kyron was stashed with migrant workers? I am trying to keep my he’s alive theory going yet no one has seen him. This however bizarre would be a fit. If anything I have provided you all with a morning chuckle. Kyron we are still looking, do not give up hope, we will not give up on you. All our love and prayers to you.
“McCain said if Terri Horman is the prime suspect in the case, she won’t be called to testify.
Terri will not be called to the grand jury if she is in fact the prime suspect, because if you have your prime suspect testify to the grand jury, then you just granted them immunity in the process if you compel them to testify,” he said.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/99801789.html
@ L.B.:
Ooooh, a juicy tidbit from oregonlive. By ‘Investigators’ I guess they mean LE types rather than their own private investigators.
I’d be surprised if any of Terri’s close friends said, even under oath, that they obtained a new cell phone for her so she could avoid investigators’ scrutiny. That statement is too close to self-incrimination.
This paraphrase surely is a bit off. Maybe more like Terri wanted to avoid Investigators’ harassment, tying up her phone line, etc. But their “scrutiny”??
I want to read that friend’s statement myself. What a great friend!
FLGirl, thank you. I don’t know if it was because I went to be thinking about dede, or what. But I awakened today thinking about the coincidence that dede was absent the same time that terri was driving around. Logically we could assume that they were together. However we are talking about a child who has been missing for 9 weeks..There was some planning involved if it was someone close to the family.
Is it possible dede or someone may have known terri’s plans, swiped terri’s phone at some point,maybe out of her truck then returned it back to the truck at the gym? After hours of analyzing casey anthonys phone pings, Judge Perry stated that pings show where the phone is not where the person is. Stay at home moms do not use the phones that often so it is safe to say that if the phone was gone it would not necessary be missed
Now according to the oregonlive article above there is possible more phones for terri. Am I the only one curious if terri knew anything about these sexting between her and the landscaper and michael cook?
The MFH (admit to hit to cover for something bigger) and behavior with the phones is what looks to us that terri has to be guilty…And yet, if planning is involved, this would be the perfect plan and easy to accomplish.
Question for Blink: Do you still believe Dede and LS know each other?
RE LB :
Thank you so much for the info…With friends like these who needs enemies , for real …I love it , they are so screwed
They really think they will outsmart Le and everybody. TH is still delusional apparently .How sad NOTHING can shake this idiots common sense
So Beejay –
Are you suggesting that TH could actually have a provable alibi, but has hired a high priced, high profile defense attorney because she prefers not to disclose what she was really doing during the time-frame in question?
Or, that perhaps she simply chose not to be helpful to the investigation into her stepson’s disappearance — not because she was somehow involved in what happened to Kyron — but another reason? Maybe she just wasn’t in the mood, for example, or she really couldn’t stand the kid and saw his disappearance and/or possible demise as a serendipitous stroke of luck?
I appreciate your playing devil’s advocate here, but, IMO, your alternate explanation of Terri’s behavior strains credulity.
Mme. C
I just had another thought on the disposable cell phones and pings on Sauvie. If TH realized she screwed up by having her cell with her (doh, she forgot or didnt know that she could be pinged if she didnt use the phone), then why not muddy the waters, so to speak, by having someone get you disposables, then letting LE know about it. Sort of like Joran and the telling a bunch of lies along with the truth, so no one whats true anymore.
L.B.your August 3, 2010 at 2:01 pm comment-
Wow- It is such a shame that Kyron’s search/investigation is interfering with Terri’s ability to escape scrutiny and go on with her FBooking and texting and online game playing, unbothered.
Geez her friends are NOT helping her- What is wrong with people really?
The more I hear, the more parallels there seem to be with Terri and Casey Anthony. Bat phones and all the rest.
Terri- would you please stop worrying about unimportant things and focus on bringing your Stepson home…
@Cathy BIckel: re: “I can understand the opinions that are being conveyed by those that think she is a sociopath, even though if she were a true sociopath I don’t think she would have even thought to try and act the way she did at the first press conference, IMO she would have exhibited the behaviour of a bystander as she would not have thought she had done anything wrong.”
Not true at all. Sociopaths learn how to “act” and mimic the appropriate behavior, they get by by faking it, so sadness, affection, concern, etc. Empathy, not so much. But if you read up on sociopaths, you’ll find that is how they play us. They can even be the most helpful when someone is vulnerable, because it is a great way to manipulate. TH may not have thought she did anything wrong, but a sociopath knows the rules–they just don’t play by them–and TH knows that whatever she did to Kyron is illegal and would, therefore, be something she should try to hide.
13.beejay says:
August 3, 2010 at 1:07 pm
@SS:
Suppose Terri had no knowledge of the planned crime until after the fact. She’d have no reason to create an alibi. Maybe she just enjoyed some free time, amongst her errands. MAYBE, she went to Sauvie Island to visit some friends who live on a houseboat???
_____________________________________________________________________
Early on in the investigation when it was reported about the cell phone pings on Sauvie Island, it was also reported that Terri said she was there “having a picnic lunch”. (Maybe Dede was with her).
L.B. WOW! Thanks for the link. I guess it’s just one more innocent SM indicator. Not.
“Investigators have been focusing on Terri Moulton Horman’s close circle of friends after learning that one of them obtained new cell phones for her so she could avoid investigators’ scrutiny after becoming the focus of the inquiry into the disappearance of her 7-year-old stepson.”
So a few questions:
1. Why didn’t she take the graphic sexual photos on that phone and spare LE the gruesome task of reviewing those?
2. Could this mean that she was also communicating w/someone unknown to LE at that time?
3. Could this possibly mean Kyron *is* stashed somewhere, or is this false hope on my part?
4. If she has nothing to hide, why is she trying to hide something?
I’m pretty sure that LE & FBI do know far more than we know they know, and if there weren’t some clear evidence, wouldn’t LE/FBI be pursuing random perp? Would they be at GJ stage at this point if random perp were reasonable? I’m with you, FLGirl.
@Cathy Bickel: I apologize if I sounded abrupt in my earlier remark btw. Bad habit of mine. Anyway, I did a quick google search on sociopaths faking emotion, tons of info out there (ASPD/psychopath/sociopath; ASPD is now preferred term, as I understand it, and sociopath/psychopath used to describe same–that’s a rough take) and here’s a sentence I read that accurately describes what I was saying:
“These fake emotions are only for effect, as the careful observer will note. The Psychopath considers getting their way or getting out of trouble using faked emotions as a victory over another person.”
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I’ll say again, I’d bet TH is loving the power she has over KH, DY, TY, and loves being “smarter” than LE/FBI.
beejay, I’ll be honest–I don’t really get why you seem to be holding on to this idea that Terri wasn’t involved in planning and executing Kyron’s disappearance. I know Blink didn’t think so at the beginning, but quite a bit of new information has surfaced since then.
Most importantly, the confusion over the doctors’ appointment (hello, premeditation!). The sketchy story about where she was during that day. And, the weird business about needing Kaine’s truck.
How do you explain those things away? Just circumstantial?
This is a report from Willamette Week….fact or fiction we shall see. Very disturbing…I hope it’s someone’s “pipedream”.
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/08/03/kyron-horman-update-one-tipsters-startling-suspicions-and-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-179922
I also find this interesting: DeDe’s condo was listed with Realtor, Prudential Northwest Properties, on 6/25/2010: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7155-SW-Sagert-St-APT-103-Tualatin-OR-97062/52695589_zpid/
Now, of course, she may have tried a different Realtor before then or tried selling on her own, but still…coincidence? Money problems? We all know though that Portland has a terrible job market, economy issue too so
Re #18 L.B. August 3, 2010 at 2:01 pm : Yes, I heard this on the news. Remember that the media said a few weeks ago how they had issued 200 subpoenas already and would be issuing more? Plus, Blink said yesterday that DeDe did not testify infront of the grand jury last week. She had an opinion that it might have been because LE made a deal with her to talk.
#19 Just to confirm, here is DeDe’s address so that you know I am showing you the link to her condo: http://www.whitepages.com/search/FindPerson?firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=dede&name=spicher&where=tualatin%2C+or
I still have a hard time putting my hands around a marital disconnect so broad that one party wants to hire a contract killer and the other party appears not to have had a clue.
RE:
L.B. says:
August 3, 2010 at 2:01 pm
In today’s Oregonian
“Investigators have been focusing on Terri Moulton Horman’s close circle of friends after learning that one of them obtained new cell phones for her so she could avoid investigators’ scrutiny after becoming the focus of the inquiry into the disappearance of her 7-year-old stepson.”
Isn’t that special.
Link to the article: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/multnomah_county_shericomb_thr.html
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This is sounding more and more as though the folks involved were watching the Anthony scandal unfold. I can see the need for some privacy, but if I wanted LE to believe that I had nothing to do with this and wanted to help, I would not participate in anything that would cause them to question my actions. What a bunch of jerks. Selfishness, is the word of the day.
OMG Blink,
I haven’t even read the whole thing. This is just so disturbing….
Investigators in the case of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman say they’ve sorted through more than 3,500 tips in the nearly two-month investigation.
Here’s an example of one such tip, forwarded today to WW by former Sheriff’s Capt. Bruce McCain. McCain says he’s brought the tip to investigators’ attention and is told they are finally following up on it.
Here’s the main portion of an email McCain sent:
This morning around 9:00 am I received a telephone call from Mark DeWitt, a 51-year old single farmer who lives in Riddle, Oregon. … When I took his call he expressed relief in “finally talking to a human” after leaving unanswered calls to the MCSO tip line. I told him I no longer worked at MCSO and I am not part of the investigation at all. He understood that but asked me to pass this info along to the authorities.
DeWitt told me he was driving on 99W near Junction City around noon on Wednesday, June 9–the same day Captain Mike Shults delivered his press statement without the families present. DeWitt said a white pick-up truck driven by a female with brown or reddish hair came up fast behind him. He noticed in his rear view mirror that a boy with short dark hair and glasses kept popping his head up in the front seat, only to have the driver push his head down. The pick-up passed DeWitt and turned on a gravel road near an old mill site in or near the town of Monroe, Oregon. DeWitt said the pickup turned onto a side road where it stopped to meet a “cranberry” color sedan from which a heavy set red head female and a male wearing a baseball cap emerged. DeWitt said the pickup driver got out and took the boy into a heavily wooded area where they were followed by the other two–with the male carrying a shovel he removed from the sedan trunk.
DeWitt continued into town where he stopped at a gas station to ask for directions to his destination, which I think was a grain elevator for seed. While out of his vehicle, DeWitt said he heard what sounded like a single gun shot coming
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/08/03/kyron-horman-update-one-tipsters-startling-suspicions-and-frustration/
I am irritated today, sorry. I wonder if the someone was DD, and that is what KH & DY were referring to when they said she was helping Terri not be cooperative.
RE: cell phone purchase.
Kaine also told KGW Monday that he was no longer wearing his wedding ring.
@FlGirl-I posted the response about Dede’s truck left on the worksite. I was responding to @Mockingbirdsings comment from July 31st. I think that eskeptic( who posted the comment about her truck being there )actually made Dede’s actions more suspicious, unintentionally, because like you said, if her truck was there and eskeptic said the property was 40acres, where was she? Did Terri pick her up? were they possibly on the property disposing of evidence?
According to The Oregonian-
Detectives learned that Spicher, who shares Terri Horman’s passion for fitness and gardening, was doing gardening work for a Northwest Portland homeowner on June 4. She abruptly left the house about 11:30 a.m. and didn’t return until an hour to 90 minutes later.
Another person working at the home called Spicher to come in for lunch, and the homeowner called Spicher on her cell phone but she wasn’t reachable. Detectives have questioned both the homeowner and the other person who was working at the home that day.
and KGW –
reliable source told KGW that investigators learned Spicher was doing gardening work not far from the Horman home in Northwest Portland on the day Kyron disappeared. Spicher reportedly left where she was working on the garden at 11:15 a.m. on June 4 and returned around 1 p.m.
The person who owns the house, who was cooperating with investigators, told them she called Spicher on her cell phone but she didn’t answer, the source told KGW. A person who was working with Spicher, who was also cooperating with investigators, told them of trying to unsuccessfully find Spicher. Both people have told investigators they have no idea where Spicher was during that period.
Neither mention a phone call that prompted her to leave. I was thinking she may have left her phone behind when she “disappeared” not for the whole day.
Also, I know that the Terri’s mustang being on SI is a rumor, however,if Dede didn’t take her truck, is it possible she could’ve went with Terri to pick up the mustang and there could be some truth to that rumor? and why?
#12 re: pamomma says:
August 3, 2010 at 12:04 pm :I’m guessing since DeDe was called to testify”
Blink addressed this yesterday: Scroll and roll…. “I know that she was not questioned, but I am of the opinion that has to do with a last minute deal she made to work with LE. If that was not fruitful, expect to see her there this week.
B”
Interesting article – wonder if it is true….
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/08/03/kyron-horman-update-one-tipsters-startling-suspicions-and-frustration/
Where is everyone today? is everyone in a different room hiding from me?
It is sooo hot where I am all I have been doing is hanging out on this computer and try to find out something on this case. oh well I hope everyone is ok be back in a bit.
Those who say this is probably something “simple” are probably correct. Those of us who can’t imagine doing these things are obsessed with finding some plausible explanation for we just cannot fathom hurting anyone, let alone an innocent child, nor can we fathom fearing the consequences. And I can just sit and imagine a gazillion things that I cannot fathom.
Once, when grieving the untimely loss of a friend, I was not sleeping, beginning to hallucinate, and obsessing about the details of his death. I called my doctor afraid of the way my mind was behaving. He told me not to worry, to ride it out, that everything I described to him was quite normal considering the situation. Then he told me something that really stuck with me. He said this is information my brain doesn’t quite no where to file. It knows how to file, “I live in Portland, I work at home, I speak English, my car won’t start, it’s 2 o’clock, it’s bedtime. It struggles a little more with, I lost my job, I have a serious illness, my husband left me. When it’s having to file information like, “My friend was found dead in a house after 7 days….,” now it begins to get confused by that information cuz it’s never had to file that one anywhere. If the information is REALLY horrific, our brains will likely go into some state of shock.
I think we are all trying desperately to file this information, but we don’t have a folder for it in our filing cabinet, and I have a suspicion that this may have something to do with why people finally confess. They gotta file that information somewhere and they just didn’t have any idea how their actions would manifest in their physical being after having committed something horrible. At some point, they just want it filed once and for all.
Hopefully, people will begin to come forward when their brain tires of loose files floating around in their brain.
@beejay – okay, I’ll bite. Your posts are really creepy. I’m beginning to suspect that you are either Terri herself or a friend/relative of hers, as you are constantly playing devil’s advocate, making excuses for her or trying to point people in a different direction by coming up with these morbid scenarios that don’t include TH. It’s not working with me.
Yes, Kyron COULD have been taken out of the building by someone else, but come on. Does it really matter HOW he got out of the building? The point is, IMO TH knows SOMETHING, and I think A LOT. Are all of the other occurrences on the same day just coincidences? The doctor appt. story that we KNOW she told the teacher that was a LIE (why make up this story if you didn’t KNOW something was going to happen?), borrowing Kaine’s truck for the day to pick up the project and then NOT picking it up, driving Kyron in the truck instead of his riding the school bus as he normally did, then e-mailing about the project and STILL not picking it up, not being able to account for her time for 1 1/2 hours after she left the school with the lame excuse of driving her daughter around (who must have been left alone in the truck at the school to begin with, wonderful), FAILING not one but TWO polygraphs, AND her refusal to talk – now let’s just throw in the minor little details that she allegedly tried to have Kaine killed, oh and also that she was “sexting” while he’s missing (which tells me she didn’t give a crap about him), as examples of her outstanding character…..hellllooooooo, separately some of the occurrences might seem like nothing, but putting them all together makes for something really weird going on. Evidence? Just because we don’t know what LE has doesn’t mean they don’t have anything. We as spectators don’t have absolute proof yet of whether she was involved or not, but to any “reasonable person” how on earth could you NOT be at least suspicious of her behavior and actions? IMO this woman is WEIRD WEIRD WEIRD, and she’s a master manipulator who can be very convincing to SOME people, including apparently you. And she has NO conscience. Her first concern is herself. JMO of course.