Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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about wandering children…when my now 14-year-old was 2, we moved into a new home….new yards with no fencing yet. one day my next door neighbor knocks on the door with my baby and says, “are you missing someone?” holy crap. someone ELSE had found him about 3 blocks away and then came across my neighbor who said..”I know that baby.” My husband was outside barbequeing. I was in the house cleaning. I thought he was with my husband. My husband thought he had come in the house and was with me. I nearly passed out when she came to the door. About a week later, it happened again, only he only got one yard away. I’ve hardly taken my eyes off him since..lol….That age, I’m telling you. For awhile, it was just a chore to go anywhere with him…he was constantly escaping. They can escape out of the stroller….the car seat. We were driving to Montana once, and I look in the rearview mirror to see him totally out of the restraints, standing up, with one leg up on the arm of the chair like Mr Bigshot.
And finally…about a month ago, I was driving in our neighborhood and saw a little boy about this same age, strutting along on his own. I pulled over and was asking where he lived, where was his mom, yada yada. He was having a grand ole time taking me to the wrong house while I knocked on doors…pointing out airplanes to me, holding my hand like we were best friends. Another woman saw me, pulled over and parked and started knocking on doors on the other side of the street. The little boy told me his dad was sleeping. I said UH OH DAD! Eventually we found the dad who did look a little foggy when he came to the door. This nice woman said to me, “Can I hug you? You are so awesome to have stopped when you saw that little boy wandering down the street.” I said, “Well most would I hope!”
Little ones. They can and do get away from us. It is a SICKENING feeling.
My family use to do puzzels and we had one that could be put together two ways. The first way seemed obvious and took us a weekend to finish. Feeling all smug and accomplished, we attempted the second way … and could’t figure it out … same pieces of the puzzel … but different picture. I’m suggesting rearrange the facts that are known and the picture changes … dramaticaly!
@Futureman: “Venetian redheads”? What comes to my mind is South Park’s “Ginger Kids” episode.
@beejay and Phyl: A lady I used to work with said that she always told her husband “I don’t do divorces, but I’ll throw you a funeral.” I believed her too.
I just found out that a friend’s wife was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder. Very sad situation, but in discussing her behavior, it sounds a lot like Terri’s KNOWN and DOCUMENTED actions. I wrote about this on here a few weeks ago but now I’m wondering about it more than ever.
Hulagirl says:
August 6, 2010 at 1:51 pm
“Aleshire said she spoke with Terri Horman on the day Kyron disappeared, but that the conversation took place before Terri Horman knew Kyron had vanished from Skyline School. She said the two women have not spoken since then.”
If Aleshire worked at the gym, couldn’t Terri have talked to her there? If she did, her testimony would be crucial to Terri’s demeanor immediately following the unaccounted-for time in her day.
It’s very frustrating for me to continue to watch parents lose their children while napping, camping and whatever. We have a security system on our house that guards the doors and windows while we sleep. During the day, any time a door or window is opened, a chime sounds. As they get older (they’re 6 and 7 now), I understand that I can’t be with them every second of every day, but at two years old they were my only focus.
Beejay says:
Here, adn elsewhere, locals only say they feel safe and they give theories based on the mass media statements by the bio parents, who have never mentioned Rudy or Anselmo or a landscaper (except for Kaine’s statement that he didn’t know they had one).
——-
) reported about the special landscaping project funded by a grant at Skyline School, I did some reading about the grant, how one is obtained and what comes with it. According to what I read, a landscaper who is familiar with the native plants of the area, etc….is granted with the grant. In other words, from what I read the granting company if you will, hires (contracts) a landscaper or uses one they contract with. A while back, koin quoted blinks comments about the landscaper (they didn’t use his name) and said they called the school district (PPS) who told them that then did not contract with any landscapers. Portland Public Schools has their own landscapers/lawn people. It occurred to me that Rudy Sanchez was probably hired by the grant place one day when I was sitting outside and a white PPS truck and trailer with lawnmowers and machine went by.
When Blink (hi Blink
From what I read before on the Skyline School site, Skyline is a very unique school. They raise money themselves in order to hire more teachers, a spanish teacher, etc…. So they do things a little outside the PPS box per say. A landscaper outside of PPS would not have had all of the scrutiny, backround checks and fingerprinting that other PPS employees go through I would assume. I think that there is a lot of hiney covering happening by both the school and the school district to keep themselves “legally covered”.
School is out right now too, so no public gatherings of parents at the school, etc… would be happening.
Is this it? Lilian and Missy70 posted a while ago, on July 6 and 8. But Craig just responded to the month-old posts yesterday.
—
Lillian says:
July 6, 2010 at 8:30 am
Blink,
I’m sure LE has gone over each and every person on TH Facebook with a fine tooth comb. That said, have you heard of Stephen Franklin “Craig” Guido?
I’m not sure if “Cheryln” is his wife, as I can’t find that name associated with him. They are mentioned together on TH Facebook. TH calls “Cheryln” her “laison” in Roseburg in respect to Kyron’s flyers. A day or so before June 4, “Craig” mentions to Terri that he’s heard from “Cheryln” that she’s (TH) coming “up” to visit.
I did some limited researched into the Guido’s. “Craig” Guido born March 1970, has a current address in Roseburg, OR, which serves as his residence and his business address. I’m wondering if he and/or Cheryln went to Roseburg High with TH. He is the owner and sole proprietor of “Craig Guido Construction”. Now that raised my eyebrow a bit. What really raised both of them was the fact that his current address my be in Tempe, Arizona.
—
and:
—
Missy70 says:
July 8, 2010 at 3:51 am
RE: Lillian’s (#22) questions regarding Craig and Cherlyn Guido.
Yes, they both went to RHS with TH. Yes, Cherlyn is his wife, and you probably are having a hard time finding anything connecting their names because they haven’t been married very long (it’s her 4th or 5th marriage – depending on who you ask, if that gives you any idea of the company TH keeps).
—
#
Craig Guido says:
August 5, 2010 at 12:58 am
Lillian, for you information I am married to Cherlyn Guido and living in Roseburg, where I have lived since 1991, after moving back from Tempe, AZ.
As for you Missy 70, what kind of a bottom feeder are you to make assumptions about my wife when you have never met. She has had failed relationships, as all of us have, but she has managed to raise 3 beautiful girls, 2 of which are in college. She has also managed to move on, which is something you need to do, since, if you continue to sling mud at my wife I will throw it back, considering I’m sure you have some dirt of your own and I don’t mind getting dirty.
And last of all, most of you, especially the reporters, are forgetting there is a little boy missing. My wife and I are still praying for his safe return….
Craig Guido
Let’s back the truck up a bit.
Can anyone help me understand the origin of this gentlemen’s comments?
B
15.beejay said:
August 6, 2010 at 9:37 am
@Phyl:
Thanks for the belly laugh! I heard an ancient lady say once that she’d never considered divorce, but daily thought about murder. (My immediate thought was: sure hope her husband isn’t found dead and it wasn’t her. Because LE has NO sense of humor.)
————————————————–
Beejay, You’re welcome
Right now it’s the only thing I feel I can contribute! And you are so right about your “immediate thought”. If something sinister happens to my loving husband – I am TOAST. LE and the DA will take one look at my online activity (posts on Blink and creative google searches) in these past few months and high five eachother. But the difference between me and TH would be that MY ex-wife (well, my husband’s, but I jokingly refer to her as MINE now) would most likely come to my defense. But my husband doesn’t have to worry about me doing him in (unless of course he accidently dies from my cooking.) I am smart enough to know that I am NOT smart enough to fool LE and get away with it, so it is something that will never be on my to-do list.
@CathyBickel and Kuaitzudog – Yes! Thank you. I must not forget the drugs! P.S. Only the legal ones. To LE perusing this site, that time in college, I may have appeared that I took a puff, but I never inhaled.
But all humor aside, WHERE THE HECK IS KYRON!!!!!! This is so frustrating! If he was abducted by some random perv, would they go to such lengths to hide him?
I also have another question for teachers out there. In the morning, after everyone is either marked in class or excused, do you then pass on your sheet to someone in administration that morning? And if so, do you make a special entry for excused absenses. There must be some note you jot down to mark the difference? no? I know different teachers/school administrators have their own way of doing things, but I’m curious to Kyron’s teacher’s pattern of marking down attendance.
Blink- just wondering…… do you still have the same “gut” feeling about Kyron? Do you think his disappearance is sexually motivated and do you think he left us shortly after his disappearance?
Yes
B
@Kaylee
Dissociative Identity Disorder=probable schizophrenia
Terri did not exhibit any delusional, paranoid, or hallucinogenic behavior. Terri is not at all likely to schizophrenic without exhibiting these symptoms.
1.cartwheel says:
August 6, 2010 at 2:45 pm
———————————————————————-
KUDO’S TO YOU!!!!
This SHOULD be the instintive feeling ALL adults have about ALL children. Sadly, it is not.
I, for one, cannot comprehend anyone who would harm a child, ANY child, let alone someone who would harm or allow harm to come to their own child or a child that they cared for as their own. How can you look into the innocent face of a child and bring harm to it? Simply put, I don’t, can’t, understand.
Overwhelming! Everybody’s got their “thinking hats on” today! (Or do teachers even say that anymore? I’m old.)
@cbickel: You finally MOO’d! Happy day, cbickel MOO’d!
@BLINK: thanks for confirming my thinking. Maybe LS and the undercover agent can sneak in and out another entrance. Be in disguise in the hallway? As chubby redheads??
All: I believe it was discussed previously the legal difficulties that could arise from LE being in the Horman home in those early days. Yet, despite that, they did it. Maybe they WERE waiting for a ransom call, or a harassing call, or similar. There would have been no problem with using evidence re someone who didn’t live at the Horman home.
I just recently read the cached TH Facebook from early days after Ky disappeared and it does present a very diff. person than the one we now know/think we know. I was actually surprised at all the friends who were doing all kinds of things to help. I think people have forgotten, also, that the gym TH and KH went to, and that TH posted about on her Facebook, was the one handling all the posters and stuff in the search for Ky. (Not that they need an excuse for “hitting the gym”. Healthier than hitting the bottle.)
I think Chelsea meant that the media (not LE) were going down the wrong path in thinking Terri is guilty. That is who she was speaking to.
Terri and her friends think that the media have sided against her. I have read more than one post on the newspaper sites that claim that information that would show Terri’s innocence is being left out of the news purposely.
@puzzled: EXACTLY! That’s the impression I have of Terri also. The KH-DY mass media campaign has been so overwhelming that I think it sinks into the subconscious and starts to seem so real that even Skyline parents are believing it’s fact. And, TH has done some things since Ky disappeared that make people disapprove of her morals. And there’s been virtually nothing in the mass media about any landscapers. Because nobody has/will publish any info(except, of course, for Blink).
Too one-sided a view of TH. Who, of course, Houze has finally managed to put a muzzle on.
FLGirl says:
August 6, 2010 at 1:05 pm
“I’ll admit, when I read the posts where people think Terri had nothing to do with this, I’m surprised. From my point of view, it’s blatantly obviously that she did this: she had means and opportunity; and she’s the only one we know of who had motive. Throw in the discrepancies in her timeline, the MFH plot, her silence, the sexting, etc. And to me it’s a forgone conclusion.”
To quote X files: The truth is out there. And it doesn’t matter what any of us believes happened, wants to believe happened or thinks should happen next (burn the witch). Believe me, I have experience with this. When my father-in-law was murdered and the perps were captured a few days later, everyone wanted swift and severe justice. The jury returned a death penalty conviction in two hours! There was no doubt to who did it. His attorney admitted JLB did it, he just wanted to argue against premeditation. There was no doubt to the consequences. My mother-in-law was and still is shattered, 18 years later. My husband had to clean his father’s brain matter off the living room ceiling. I was eight months pregnant, and went into pre-term labor from my house being the hub for friends, family members and law enforcement. While my MIL was living with us, we discovered that she had a loaded 345 magnum in a dresser drawer, with our two year old cruising around the house. Hell, I was against the death penalty before this happened and even I wanted JLB dead.
However . . . I’ve been googling the murderer’s name recently (he has high googleability) and none of the things that happened to us are on the internet. Instead it’s all about how JLB is an example of how the mentally ill are discriminated against, how public defenders in Washington aren’t adequately compensated and so do a shitty job, how he should have never been given the death penalty (it was overturned in 2001). His story (with inaccuracies) is even featured in a book about FAS – “Message in a Bottle”. There’s no talk about the devastation to our lives.
I’m very sensitive to these sympathetic views of the man who f’d up our lives. But to be honest, if I had heard only his side of it, I don’t know what my reaction would have been. If you wanted to create a killer, you would probably do all the things that were done to him in his childhood.
I have my theory as to what happened to Kyron and it’s different than what I believed initially with all the details that have come to light. But it doesn’t matter what I believe because I’m not on the inside and don’t have all the facts. Frankly, I’m surprised when someone says “foregone conclusion”.
@beejay and @twinkletoes
Seriously?
How do you explain the hinkiness of the doctors’ appointment confusion? And, what do you make of Terri borrowing Kaine’s truck on that day, for no reason that makes any sense?
I don’t think Blink would be putting Anselmo’s and Rudy’s info on this web site unless she had very good reason to. Nor would she have thrown out that Terri & Rudy were lovers without very good evidence.
I’m all for critical thinking, but…c’mon.
For what it’s worth, these are my reasons for still having hope that Kyron is still alive:
1. As late as July 16th, Multnomah County Sheriff believed Kyron was still alive. (Blink, this info is from an elected official that has daily briefings with him. I haven’t spoken with this person since the 16th, but I don’t have any reason to believe that this has changed)
2. TH acting alone or with a killer for hire signaled to me sociopathic behavior, very capable of killing.
TH “working” with as many a 3 friends who are willing to risk everything by suppling her with help, support and phones, signals to me that she must have some redeeming qualities that invoke that kind of loyalty. IMO, people with severe personality disorders do not have that kind of social network in their lives. The day of the disappearance TH sure had a large outpouring of support on her Facebook Page and was depicted as a “loving” mother. Her volunteering and connections at Skyline School seemed genuine. Where ALL those people duped?
3. Assuming that all four them (TH and 3 friends) are not sociopaths, their smug looks could be explained as “knowing” something that no one else does. i.e. that Kyron is alive and stashed with someone for his protection and that they are somehow the heroes in all this (only in their minds, of course).
Here’s one of my scenarios:
TH wants Kyron gone ( to punish, to free herself, whatever). She convinces DeDe and these other women that Kyron is in grave danger (from Father, Mother, drug dealers, etc.). She is a master manipulator and they believe her whole heartedly. They agree to help get him away from danger. Maybe she assures them that she plans to take Kiara and go retrieve him as soon as she is able.
She gets Kyron from school (with or without help) and takes him to Sauvie’s Island to hand him off to a friend who is moving out of town and who has agreed to take him.
The untraceable phones are provided by friends so she can still have contact with person who has Kyron with them. Friends are now in it so deep with her that they are pleading the 5th. TH is deluded enough to believe she can keep this all up.
Don’t get me wrong, I think TH is mentally ill and did, whatever she did, out of pure selfishness and/or hate. My problem is that I don’t see how all these friends could be helping her if they knew she murdered an innocent child. Could that kind of deep guilt or shame be hidden so brazenly?
Side note: Thank goodness for Blink and this site, it feels like the only bit of sanity in this whole case. I don’t post often, but read vigilantly because it makes me feel like Kyron is not forgotten. Keep up the good work all. I especially love futureman for breaking the tension from time to time. We need that too!
RE:
9.ClassyGal says:
August 6, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Blink- just wondering…… do you still have the same “gut” feeling about Kyron? Do you think his disappearance is sexually motivated and do you think he left us shortly after his disappearance?
Yes
B
so..I’m confused..where does TH fit in ,if at all??
I am a retired teacher and in my experience in five different districts, the only consistent thing regarding absences is that the teacher takes attendance and sends the list to the office. Some schools immediately call parents to find out the reason, and some schools wait for a note from the parent the NEXT day. Teachers are responsible for TAKING the attendance, but the office is responsible for handling it. Some schools even have attendance clerks who do nothing else.
@beejay, yes indeed I MOO’d…I still felt a tad bit bovine over it, but I figured if ever a “moo” was needed by me, it was needed then. Folks don’t like it much when I express how I feel about certain things or people, so I try real hard to watch what I say.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
Let’s see if I’ve got this straight: Chelsea Aleshire used to work at 24 Hr Fitness in Tanasbourne, before it moved. Link:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoid=17501@koin.web.entriq.net
TH goes to the 24 Hr Fitness at 1265 NW Waterhouse Ave, Beaverton (per the RO; Kaine stating where TH could be found most days 11am to 2pm, for serving process on her).
Both CA and Andrea Leckey know TH from “the gym”.
So, if grand jury is tracking TH on June 4, did these ladies work out with her that day?
@julie: Ahh, so…Thanks about the landscaper, and the work you did on it. So, if RS Landscape Maintenance wasn’t doing the weekly mowing at Skyline, parents wouldn’t be wondering aloud about Rudy and his employees. Think someone needs to give the parents a clue long about now? Or is RS Landscape Mnt now defunct? I’d like to know that; has their truck been seen around town?
@Phyl, re: I also have another question for teachers out there. In the morning, after everyone is either marked in class or excused, do you then pass on your sheet to someone in administration that morning? And if so, do you make a special entry for excused absenses. There must be some note you jot down to mark the difference? no? I know different teachers/school administrators have their own way of doing things, but I’m curious to Kyron’s teacher’s pattern of marking down attendance.
—
I am an elementary school teacher so I can give you some idea of how it works where I teach.
Where I work, attendance is taken / submitted electronically. Ideally, this has to be done *by 10 a.m.* An attendance bell rings daily @ 10 as a reminder for the classroom teachers to take/submit attendance electronically. I think this (and the 10 a.m. deadline) has to do with school and district attendance percentages and federal funding more than anything else.
Even with that reminder bell, some teachers often forget to take attendance before 10 a.m. (maybe it’s recess time, or too busy with a lesson, or just forgetful) so sometimes it is done later in the day, after it is requested, possibly, by the attendance clerk in the front office.
As far as excused vs. unexcused absences, if the child brings a note after the absence, the attendance clerk is the only one who enters and adjusts the absence or tardy information electronically. The teachers cannot do this: we just mark tardies and absences as they happen. All absences recorded electronically by the teacher default to “unexcused” until a note is provided to the attendance clerk in the front office.
In Kyron’s case, had he been in my class as my student, it wouldn’t have mattered whether or not his stepmom had told me about an appointment that day, or if I had actually seen him / them that morning. If I took attendance @ 10:00, and he was not there, I’d have had to mark him absent, just plain unexcused absent or “unaccounted,” and it would be up to parents and attendance clerk to qualify (electronically) that absence as excused or not, after the doctor’s appointment and with a note.
Electronically, the teacher has no control over the “excused” part of the recorded absence, no matter what the parent may have told us about a possible absence ahead of time. So, a child could be recorded officially absent (unexcused) even if he had been seen in school by his teacher that very morning. Make sense?
I hope this makes sense. It may be a similar system @ Kyron’s school, maybe not. After all, the school I work at has surveillance cameras just about everywhere. Even the kids know that.
BLINK: pretty please tell me. When you say Ky’s disappearance was “sexually motivated” do you mean as in HE was a sexual target?
I have answered this question about 100 times, to the extent that I am going to.
One last time: I believe Kyron’s ultimate fate will have been perpetrated via sexual motivation.
It would give me supreme joy to have that wrong.
B
ElizabethinOR…….Your 2:53 post is extremely offensive, I have a 3yr old son who turns 4 at the end of this month. Had I would have known the kinda shanny’s he was going to put me through, his middle name would Not be William it would be Houdini. I often tell him when he grows up he better get rich and buy mommy a house in the south of France because he has taken at least 10yrs off of my life. When someone new comes over to my house, I always have to explain why my house looks like it is on lock-down. Door handle locks, Window locks, door chains, door alarms, a 4.5ft gate into my kitchen. My son was walking by the time he was 9mths old, climbing out of his crib by 13mths, at the age of 2.5 he mastered how to climb over the 5.5ft fence in the back yard by stacking items. It may be hard to imagine but some toddlers are masters at the art of escaping. My 2yr old daughter has never had the same ability to escape as my son has. I love my children more than anything, I don’t think I would have the strength to go on if anything ever happened to them. Just because a child gets loose from his/her parents doesn’t make that parent incompetent or neglectful from not watching them. For instance went to the bathroom came out front door wide open. He learned that from hanging on the door handle lock they would seperate and he could unbolt the door and walk-out. So I put tape around the door handle locks to prevent them from seperating. Then he learned to start unwraping the tape, So I moved it up a notch and put a chain on the door. Just last week I was in my bedroom spacebagging some clothes, when I turned the vacuum off, I heard nothing, silence is the dead give away nowadays that trouble has brewed. Came out starting calling both my children, nothing. Opened the front door low and behold there they are playing in mommies car. I must have not shut the door all the way. Does that make me a bad parent, one who doesn’t pay attention to their children..NO IT DOESN’T I take offense that you would group all Houdini toddlers parents into we don’t keep an eye on them, because that is simply NOT TRUE.
Well, I have to say, I agree with both of you. I don’t think it makes you a bad parent, but I do think instead of being defensive you might consider it is your responsibility to make sure the door is closed correctly, and your car should be locked for a variety of reasons.
At 2.5, stacking enough items to scale a five foot fence, if your saying nobody caught him, is a long time to be out of your field of vision. Please know I am NOT critisizing you, but I really need for people to consider that if something we do in our role as parents offers an area that may compromise our child’s safety, we need to evaluate it, and change it, and nobody has to be told they are wrong.
If you saw the article about little Emmett, it is a necessity.
B
Catching up on here. Phyl, that chuckle was needed. Funny stuff.
I don’t have much to add except for my sadness over Emmett Trapp’s death. How awful. and, as always, praying for Kyron. I hope the GJ gets results soon.
happy weekend everyone.
Andy. says:
August 6, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Kaylee
Dissociative Identity Disorder=probable schizophrenia
Terri did not exhibit any delusional, paranoid, or hallucinogenic behavior. Terri is not at all likely to schizophrenic without exhibiting these symptoms.
Uh huh, they are not the same disorder. Inform yourself. I’m not saying it’s an excuse or that she has it, I’m just saying that the things Terri is known to have done fit with what I heard in regards to someone that has DID. The owner of the gym said she looked past them like they weren’t even there. “Creepy” he said. Just one example.
http://www.dissociativeidentitydisorder.net/schizophrenia-and-its-distinction-with-did/
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoId=17140@koin.web.entriq.net&navCatId=156
I am so confused with all these friends of Terri
everyday new names show up
I am sure there are good people being pulled into this mess
at this point all I can reason out is Kyron is missing
and hope this case is solved soon
Prayers for Kyron
“Early Release
Students leaving school prior to dis-
missal time need a signed note stating
the time and purpose. For security pur-
poses, students will come to the office
where they will be released to the par-
ent/adult. Parents must sign their stu-
dent out from the office. We ask that
parents do not go directly to the class-
room to pick up their child.”
That’s from the Skyline Elem. Parent/Student Handbook for 2008/2009. I’ve never been able, nor have I found anyone else who could find the handbook for 2009/2010. Maybe the policy didn’t change? I know nothing about anything else.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n5JqSpnGwswJ:skylineelementary.org/files/Parent%2520Handbook%25202008-Final.pdf+Skyline+Elementary+school+portland+parent+student+handbook+2008&hl=en&gl=us
Cartwheel,
I’ll agree that there could be a far less nefarious reason for the phones. Perhaps Kaine, after he moved out, decided he didn’t want to continue to pay for the phone of a woman who tried to murder him.
So, a friend goes out and buys her a new one.
Or, some people seem to think that LE still has Terri’s phone. I can’t see why they would be able confiscate it, personally, since they keep saying she’s not a POI. I could be wrong though.
Still though, in combination with so many other things in this case, there is possibly a valid reason to suspect it was purchased for nefarious reasons.
@pdxgirl:
You said: How do you explain the hinkiness of the doctors’ appointment confusion? And, what do you make of Terri borrowing Kaine’s truck on that day, for no reason that makes any sense?
I don’t think Blink would be putting Anselmo’s and Rudy’s info on this web site unless she had very good reason to. Nor would she have thrown out that Terri & Rudy were lovers without very good evidence.
I’m all for critical thinking, but…c’mon.
_______________________
With all due respect, if you are ready to convict someone of murder/kidnapping based on a rumored miscommunication, the use of a spouses’ vehicle, and an alleged affair, then I do not believe you when you say you are “all for critical thinking.”
That said, I’d sure love to be a fly on the wall in that GJ room. My point is and has been that I don’t have enough information to point a finger at anyone. I know a lot of crazy self absorbed assholes who have never murdered anyone. The bad behavior, unless directly linked to Kyron’s disappearance, is IMO, just bad behavior.
Blink: thank you for bearing with me. My confusion has been over whether, to you, “sexual motivation” included a jealous lover taking Ky to get back at TH. A broad def. of “sexual motivation.” Now I will take it that Ky was indeed the sexual target.
For those who think Terri is innocent — and no one has to answer this — but I am curious; why do you believe then, that she is refusing to cooperate with LE? Why do you think her lawyer hasn’t even made a peep himself, much less have had her made a statement? Even Blink I believe had commented it unusual for her lawyer to be so closed-mouthed.
If she has nothing to hide, why is she hiding?
How do you reconcile this “innocence” with the way she is acting?
what about the MFH plot; how is that explained away?
What about the sexting with MC?
Why has she never, ever, in 9 weeks of Kyron’s being missing; even shown the slightest bit of emotion, or made any kind of comment for the “kidnapper” to bring kyron home?
So are Desiree and Kaine are lying when they say they is reason to believe that Terri is guilty? Why would they do such a thing?
Honestly, not trying to be combative or anything. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion. But, I am 100% sure, no doubt in my mind, that she did this, and have been since day one. Each new item to come out has only been one more layer of a stinky onion, and it’s got Terri written all over it. JMO
Re the wandering children: Of my three kids, none have been all that interested in escaping, thank God, but one has fingers like lightening. We have an Italian last name so his nickname of “Fingers” always makes others chuckle, but it really is no laughing matter. He grabs things, pulls cords, frisks the tops of counters before I can even get a “no” out of my mouth. I truly sympathize with the parents of “wanderers”. I agree also that it is the parents’ responsibility to know their kid wanders and therefore take every precaution known to modern science to keep them safe. So very sad for dear Emmett.
@ 29. beejay says:
It seems to me that Kyron would not have been actually counted present: he was supposedly at the school early because of the Science Fair, but never made it to his classroom. Therefore, it would be likely that he was not considered an early-dismissed student. After all, Terri Moulton told his teacher and possibly others that he had a doctor’s appointment that morning. Since he was never counted “present”, and was indeed marked “absent”, he was not dismissed from school that day since he left with Terri before classes started. Or so the story goes. Where is Kyron?
@FLgirl: I think you make some really good points and I respect your position. I am not ready to narrow the investigation to only TH because I don’t see evidence that connects her to Ky’s disappearance. Sure, she seems like an awful character. But connect it to the missing child. There just isn’t enough, imo, to be certain it is her.
And in regard to her not talking, I suspect that her silence is born of one of the following scenarios: a) TH is afraid of implicating herself by revealing illegal behavior (who knows what variety, MFH, drugs, kiddie porn, who knows?) or b) she has told all she knows but LE is erroneously convinced she knows more. Yes, the obvious is that she is not talking because she did it. But she talked at first, then she stopped when LE started asking about the landscaper.
RE her attorney not talking: The prosecution has the BOP. Houze has a “squirrely” client. I think he is wise to keep her quiet.
Teachers in Portland Public Schools use an electronic system called eSIS, whereas they input student absences/tardies directly. Whenever a child is marked absent, eSIS is programmed to place automated phone calls to parents regarding their child’s absence/tardies each day. I always received these calls from PPS for my children in the evening.
If, in fact, regular classes did not begin until 10:00 a.m. on the day of Kyron’s disappearance, the teacher followed proper procedure by marking him absent in the eSIS system at that time.
If anyone is still talking to me, can someone give me a nutshell on the phone situation I keep reading about? What phones? Whose phones? I’ve been searching elsewhere and haven’t found anything on the phones. I ask because I wonder if Kyron had one of those little guy track (sp?) phones. I got one for my son when he was about that age. Just a thought.
lol.
My friend, it is what it is, and I get the messenger 38 special daily
B
Hmm, so would the Guidos be the couple who were brought before the GJ in the last day or two? I have to admit, the fact that he’s in construction, is interesting. Could be perfectly innocent; but the fact that Terri buddied-up with people in landscaping and construction (digging, burying, cementing over things, etc..)… well ya never know.
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kuaitzudog says:
August 6, 2010 at 4:14 pm
RE:
9.ClassyGal says:
August 6, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Blink- just wondering…… do you still have the same “gut” feeling about Kyron? Do you think his disappearance is sexually motivated and do you think he left us shortly after his disappearance?
Yes
B
so..I’m confused..where does TH fit in ,if at all??
^^^^ I can’t and won’t speak for Blink, but “sexually motivated” does not have to mean Kyron was taken by a sexual predator. We’ve already seen sex come into this, in the forms of Terri and the LandScaper and Terri and Michael Cook. So, sexually motivated could refer to Terri cheating on Kaine, or believing he was cheating on her.
How bout this: The MFH was the original plan; so she seduces the LS and gets him to agree to murder Kaine; but then LS backs out. Maybe because he thought she would get him to kill Kaine, then turn him in and reap Kaine’s insurance. Or, maybe he thought it was too risky, or he didn’t have the stomach to kill.
So, Terri devises a new plan, get rid of Kyron. Didn’t even have to start off as a murder. Maybe something went wrong in the kidnapping process. ie they chloroformed him to get him outside quietly and he asphyxiated; or he struggled and ran away and they had to do the unthinkable so that he wouldn’t squeal on them, etc.
Anyways, what if, after the MFH failed, the plan was just to hold Kyron captive for a while, with the hopes that Kaine would be so distraught that he would either do something to himself; or they would kill him and make it look like a suicide?
Sure, sounds like a book or a movie plot, but these things — and worse — do happen every day around the world. There are a lot of rotten people in the world, with no consciences. Pretty much nothing shocks me anymore.
JUST A THOUGHT??? COULD TH BE PROTECTING AN OLDER CHILD, THAT MAY HAVE ABUSED KYRON? HER STONE FACE SEEMS TO BE REFELETIVE OF SOMEONE THAT WILL GO TO HER GRAVE WITHOUT TALKING! MAYBE LITTLE KYRON WAS GOING TO EXPOSE SOMEONE WHEN HE WENT WITH HIS MOTHER AND TONY, TH PANICED….BLINK STILL SAYS THIS WAS A SEXUALLY MOTIVATED CRIME,BUT WHY????????? THE SECRETCY OF THE LE SEEMS TO ME ANOTHER CHILD MAY BE INVOLVED IN HURTING HIM IN SOME WAY…I PRAY NOT, KYRON, COME HOME SAFE!!!!
For those of you who are certain, 100% sure, no doubt in your mind, that TH did it, what is it for you that links TH’s behavior so unquestionably to Kyron’s disappearance? Like FLgirl, I am not trying to be combative, but I am truly curious what seals the deal for you.
@ Rich M says:
August 6, 2010 at 1:43 pm “If the grand jury refuses to return an indictment, can the prosecutor come back and try again, or is that barred by double jeopardy?”
cut from: http://www.abanet.org/media/faqjury.html
“Double jeopardy does not apply to the grand jury. In practice, however, it is uncommon for a prosecutor, having failed once, to try again without good reason. The Department of Justice requires the prosecutor to obtain permission of the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division to present the case again.”
Excellent site to find answers to legal questions.
Of all the information that has come out regarding this case, the one thing (if true) that strikes me as most suspicious is the supposed conversation regarding Kyron’s Dr. appointment.
Based upon my 33 years of teaching experience, I can understand why the teacher assumed Kyron’s Dr. appointment was for the following day, as it makes absolutely no sense why a parent would make a point to reference an appointment which was not set to occur until the end of the following week – eight days later.
I apologize for sounding defensive, My point is that in a matter of 2min. a child can put themselves in a dangerous situation. I normally don’t tell these stories to strangers, because people assume that I leave my children unattended for a period of time. When the truth is it was a matter of minutes. The fence issue, I took the garbage can down to the street by the time I got back my son placed a chair next to the 10speed bike leaning on the fence. Climbed up the chair to the bike seat then all he had to do was grab onto the lattice(top half of my fence is lattice) So he was busted. Again I apologize for being defensive, I should have wrote my last post better. I just want parents to know all it takes is 120seconds for your child a child to get into a situation that you never thought would happen.
How gracious of you, thank you.
Your message is a sound one, and I sincerely appreciate you sharing it.
I also should have stated that I was a Houdini baby and to this day to hear my parents tell the stories with their wide eyes and gestures, makes me glad they did not ship me to an orphanage.
I still remember my Mom laughing hysterically when my daughter was about 12 months and starting to reject the nap thing because of a new house. She called me and I could not hear her because I had the monitor next to me at full tilt while I sat on the steps listening to Blinkette “cry it out” as recommended by the Pediatrition for 8 minutes of the suggested 15.
Mom says, ..” turn it off, turn it back on in 7 minutes…”
I said, .. “Mom, I feel that if she has to cry it out, I should have to be tortured with her. I’m leaving it on.”
She said,.. ” I used to wish when you were little that you would have a child just like you so you would know what it was like. Now, I just wish for Blinkette you stop being so hard on yourself and just enjoy her, there is no such thing as parental perfection, AND, if your looking to do a better job than Daddy and I, that is expected…”
“You do the best you can, and then you learn- that is life dear girl.”
B
FLGirl –
I’m not convinced Terri is innocent, but I have serious doubts about her guilt, if that makes sense.
Even though Kaine and Desiree have said Terri was uncooperative, LE said Terri was cooperative (until she retained Houze).
“To date there has been no indication through our detectives or investigators that [stepmother Terri Horman] has been uncooperative,” Staton said. “She has been cooperative through out this entire process. Beyond that, I wouldn’t comment.”
http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Terri-wants-money-to-move-out-Kyron-Horman/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx?p=13
When Desiree was asked to clarify how Terri had been uncooperative, she said that Terri wasn’t contacting LE with the information that would bring Kyron home. If Terri is innocent, then she doesn’t have that information, though.
How is Terri acting? IMHO, she’s acting like someone who has been backed into a corner, and her actions may not necessarily be evidence of her guilt. She could be a self-destructive person by nature. She could use sex as a coping mechanism. In the texts to MC and in texts and messages to others, she stated that she missed Kyron and Kiara and wanted them home. The sexting with Michael Cook is ugly, but what if she has ugly ways of coping? That doesn’t make her a murderer. Some people drink. Some people smoke weed. Some people smoke cigarettes. Some people eat. If she has unhealthy opinions about sex, she may use that as a way to feel fulfilled, loved, etc. At the point she began sexting Michael Cook, she was well aware she was the unofficial suspect in Kyron’s disappearance. Kaine had left her and taken the baby, Kyron was gone and everyone believed she was responsible. I’ve read and believe that LE was using psychological warfare against Terri, hoping she’d crack, and perhaps she did, but not in the way LE thought she would.
Early on, Terri attempted to defend herself on some news sites in the comments section; however, early on, Kaine instructed Terri to remain silent. There are inferences to this in his Intel e-mail, and a friend stated that Terri was following Kaine’s instructions about not talking to the media. I tend to give this validity because none of the family was talking to the media in the first few days after Kyron’s disappearance, which most of us considered odd. By the time Terri was no longer under Kaine’s instructions, she’d been accused of the MFH plot, Kaine had left her, filed for divorce, served her with a RO, and had taken Kiara. Very quickly, Houze was hired, and I’m sure he told her to keep her mouth shut.
I’ll be careful about Desiree and Kaine; however, I believe Desiree has never liked Terri, and perhaps with good reason. Perhaps she was angry about how Kaine and Terri met,even though Kaine asserts they were broken up that time, perhaps she was angry that Terri raised Kyron, perhaps she was angry that Kyron called Terri mom, perhaps Terri is a lying, self-absorbed homewrecker, but I do believe Desiree has never liked Terri. Sometimes, when you don’t like someone, everything they do, say, act, and feel is wrong. You can find fault if you’re looking. Also, Desiree and Kaine have, at times, contradicted themselves about Terri. Kaine seems inordinately ignorant of what was taking place in his own house; he appears uninvolved to the extreme about somewhat serious matters such as Terri having PPD, the medication Terri may have been taking, school related functions, etc.
IMHO, this could be a case of tunnel vision, complicated by a person who is self-destructive. Kyron missing and Terri being a self-destructive woman with major issues and ugly coping mechanisms may be mutually exclusive.
To my knowledge, there is no evidence of a murder scene. LE has no evidence of a murder weapon. There is no body. There is no evidence a body was concealed in the white truck. I do not believe anyone saw Kyron leave the school with Terri. Terri’s timeline or her alibi may be a bit weird, especially her driving Kiara around for a while to soothe her earache, but it’s not unbelievable, and Terri’s whereabouts are accounted for a good portion of the day.
Obviously, I’m not privy to all the goings on in this family, and I know appearances can be deceiving, but I will say this — Kyron appeared well cared for, he appeared healthy, he appeared well fed, he appeared well dressed, he appeared to thrive in school, he appeared close to his siblings, he appeared to be included in holidays and gift giving, he appeared to be included in family vacations, he appeared to be included in extracurricular activities such as swimming lessons, Terri volunteered in his classroom, Terri helped him with school projects, Terri drove him to Eugene to meet his mother for her weekends with Kyron, and Terri was his primary caretaker. He called her mom, she referred to him as her son.
Honestly, I don’t see a motive. I don’t think she hated him or resented him, even if sometimes he got on her nerves, which is perfectly normal between parents and kids. I don’t believe she was physically abusive, as there were inherent “checks” in place with Kyron visiting Desiree and Tony, there being another adult in the house, etc. The way in which Kyron was taken doesn’t convey accidental, so I don’t believe she flew into a rage and struck him or that she accidentally hit him with the truck.
I just don’t see a motive, I don’t see any witnesses, and I don’t see any evidence of her involvement. There is some oddball behavior, but Desiree has said that from the first phone call she suspected Terri, and I’m sure Terri picked up on this. Then there was LE’s questionnaire. If Terri’s innocent, then she feels guilty, and she knows everyone thinks she’s guilty. She’s got grief and guilt and perhaps ugly coping mechanisms and honestly, I believe that explains most of her oddball behavior.
Putting aside the oddball, and sometimes inappropriate behavior, where’s the evidence that links her to the abduction and/or a murder?
Re: twinkletoes, “What seals the deal”
For me it’s the lying to LE about whereabouts on the day he disappeared ,failed polygraphs, sudden clamming up, and hiring a high profile lawyer. These all say she is hiding something VERY major. Not the actions of a innocent person.
I am still having a hard time wrapping my brain around her killing her step-son, though. ONLY because of the seeming involvement of these other people. Could they all have gone along with her? I know in my heart she is guilty, I guess I just don’t want to believe he is really gone.
#4 Kaylee,
If Aleshire worked at the gym, couldn’t Terri have talked to her there? If she did, her testimony would be crucial to Terri’s demeanor immediately following the unaccounted-for time in her day.
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Good point. I hadn’t realized she actually worked at the gym…just thought the two had met there, as with Dede. Wow…based on her appearance, I never would have guessed in a million years that she worked at a gym.
@pdxgirl: I’m trying to remember what evidence we have about the doctor’s appointment. I know we have some from some children, but don’t know if there’s any confirmation from adults on that and as to which week it was for. Do you have a link for me?
The only adult statemt I’ve heard was from Kaine, saying that he’d heard about that and there is some confusion about it. I think he’d heard about that thru the media but not from Terri.
There are a number of things you mentioned that I just don’t know about. The use of the truck is a big one. But, could you turn it around a bit and try to think of why a woman might want to borrow the truck–other than hauling a dead body in it?
The problem for us on the outside is, if we assume TH did that, then we look at everything she did those 2 days trying to make ea. action fit in with the crime. If we assume TH is innocent, we can come up with plausible, noncriminal reasons for everything she did.
Ex, what did you do from, say 10:10 to 11:50 today? Got an alibi for it? Well, if you planned a murder, you sure would. So you better hope no one got murdered today that you know. If you were just out feeding the geese, maybe playing hooky from work, that was a BAD decision. Gives you no alibi.
That’s my thought process. I’m not invested in any “position” here. Just trying to process the evidence we have.
@twinkletoes(41).
For me it is the doctor’s appointment info. Kyron told his friend Kurtis (the media interviewed Kurtis’ mother) that he had a doctor’s appt THAT day. In other words, he knew he was leaving the building that day and he knew who he was leaving with. The source of the doctor’s appt info was TH herself. She made sure Kyron got the correct info but she probably did not count on Kyron mentioning this to anyone else or thought he would not have time to. She deliberately made confusing statements to the school personnel so as to create doubt and blame the school later for not keeping up with his whereabouts. We don’t know if there ever really was a doctor’s appt either on June 4 or June 11 but if I was a betting person I would bet no.
Also, the one other thing is the posting of his photo within just a few hours of being at the school. Highly uncharacteristic for her. Her facebook consisted mostly of pics of her daughter and things about her. Yet after he went missing it took quite a while for her to post any info on the matter. She communicated with people frequently but not one statement was made with the name Kyron in it. Not one utterance of despair, fear, or concern for what had happened to it. Just very dry reply comments to people who had put messages about details regarding the flyers, etc. This is not the behavior of a concerned loving custodial parent.
To those that question why I’m not jumpin’ up and down sayin’ TH is guilty of whatever has been done to this poor little kid. Proof beyond a resonable doubt is what I’m lookin’ for and I will not and should not have the information that LE has for me to make that call. What I know is TH is guilty of some really serious messed and possible illegal activity. (MFH still no arrest)
The truck being used instead of the car, I have both a pick up and the same year mustang as TH AND a grand daughter that lives with me the same age as Kiara, I would have taken the truck simply for the leg room, no big deal.
The MFH…no arrest and a sting that went really bad.
Sexting that dude, stupid woman and no I do not believe that is normal behavior for someone who’s child is missing. Does it prove that she did anything? Not with the information we are privy to.
The telephone thing? I would really appreciate a link as I’ve not seen a thing about it.
I’ve stated before that I believe whatever happened to Kyron happened because of his step-mother in some shape, form or fashion. I can’t connect the dots because I don’t have all the dots to play with. That’s LE and the prosecutor’s job…not mine.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.