Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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http://www.ashp.org/import/news/HealthSystemPharmacyNews/newsarticle.aspx?id=3329
BETHESDA, MD 03 May 2010—McNeil Consumer Healthcare on Friday announced the recall of all unexpired lots of dozens of U.S.-manufactured nonprescription medications formulated for children and infants.
According to the company, the recalled products may contain a higher-than-specified amount of active ingredient, have inactive ingredients that do not meet internal specifications, or contain “tiny particles.”
The recall involves different formulations of Tylenol Infants’ drops, Children’s Tylenol and Children’s Tylenol Plus suspension, Motrin infants’ drops, Children’s Motrin and Children’s Motrin Cold suspension, Children’s Zyrtec, and Children’s Benadryl.
A complete list of recalled products appears at the bottom of a McNeil press release.
The company stated that it has received no reports of adverse events related to the use of the recalled medications but has taken the action as a precautionary measure. Consumers who have any of the recalled products in their home should not use them, according to FDA and McNeil.
This recall is one of several similar actions involving McNeil’s products since the first of the year, including a January recall of about 500 lots of the company’s products.
—————-
I have no idea what Terri was looking for, but I know that I had to hunt repeatedly for Benadryl, Tylenol, Motrin, and Zyrtec for my grandkids during May and June. Everything we had on hand needed to be tossed (and we were reimbursed by the McNeil company). I found versions made by Target which were not subject to recall but everybody was looking for them and it wasn’t always easy since our family can only use the dye-free ones. Additional recalls came out after this one in May using different lot numbers. One or more of these may or may not have been something Terri expected to buy that day – if it was actually part of the plan, I would think she’d have gotten it before June 4th.
I am NOT saying this is the problem Terri was having, but you can bet Houze is aware of the recall and has added it to his list of “reasonable doubts” that legitimize what she was doing.
28.interested bystander says:
August 12, 2010 at 10:34 am
“The Fred Meyer and Starbucks on Embrie (off Cornelius Pass) are a direct route from the Horman house and Skyline School. My sis lives a couple miles from the school so I frequent the area. It would seem logical if you went to Starbucks, then walked next door into FM for whatever you needed.”
_________________________________________
That might not be so feasible, though, if lugging a toddler around.
TBZ – thank you for the information about Intel parking.
If this was as well planned as everyone seems to think, then taking and returning the red mustang would be way out of line. You couldn’t even use it to implicate Kaine unless he works in an unmonitored broom closet – and I assume people check in and out of Intel for security reasons. If Kaine left Intel that morning, we’d know that by now. So unless something more definite comes up, it seems the red mustang on SI that morning must have been a different but similar car.
Can we rule it out of the mix yet?
4.mountaintime says:
August 12, 2010 at 1:21 pm
“Karey,
An alternative idea might be that there was the one white truck, but it was observed parked in two different locations.
With another unidentified car ( the one LE is asking for info on) parked nearby, and a second person observed in the truck…
we could have a some kind of pre-planned scenario where a second person arrived in their car, got into the truck and moved it to the second location on the access road, and took off with Terri and Kyron.
OR…maybe Terri drove the second car….?
All kinds of possibilities…”
_____________________________________________
@mountaintime: my thought was that Kyron would need to know what vehicle to get into. He knew he rode to school that a.m. in the white pickup, & where they parked. If there was a second (similar) white pickup that took TH’s parking spot after she left, Kyron might not notice it was a different vehicle until he climbed inside. IDK…like you said, so many possibilities.
@ I am sure you all recall the wb page with all those peculiar photos, the drag photo, the box of gun casings or whatever they are called.
**************
where was THAT? Thanks
#
KB in OR says:
August 13, 2010 at 1:25 pm
…..That is definitely not the side of the lot I would pick to be sneaky. (Not that I ever do anything sneaky…lol) There is another lot on the other side that isn’t visible…..
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
This cultural phenomenon of blog sleuthing has made one thing perfectly clear to me. At 53 I am just realizing we fellers stand no chance. The amazing instinct and intense scrutiny the ladies have exhibited here blows us away. Don’t know how any man could ever get away with cheating on the Mrs….:)….Cheers to the lady sleuths…and Ms. B for unabated discussion…..Thinkin’ of you Kyron…God’s love
Thank you for the kind words.
B
Faith says: “If he was kidnapped or sold for adoption surely everyone in the country would recognize him and also many countries in the world. Someone would recognize him sooner or later.”
_____________________________________________
Remember how long Jaycee Dugard was held captive? Whatever those women/their associate(s) did with Kyron/wherever he is, the perp(s) must be confident he is hidden very, very well. Otherwise, they would’ve discretely released him by now or someone involved would divulge his location to save their own hide.
With regards to where Terri parked at the store; my gut instinct is that she parked so far away because few people would be parked around her and unable to see who/what was in her truck.
We haven’t heard the details yet about what she purchased where; just her own claims. However, if this Fred Myers is the usual place she went, it’s possible she just popped in there first to grab a coffee at the Starbucks, to establish her alibi.
I mean let’s figure, she knows the Starbucks employees well enough that they’re facebook friends (at least one of them), and the comments from the one employee about how she always loves seeing Terri and Kiara there. If I was looking to establish an alibi, I would go to a place where I’m a regular and where someone knows me well. With regards to multiple stops, it’s possible that she only went to that location to hit the Starbucks because it would be a lot faster getting through Starbucks and be able to produce a receipt for 9:12am, than it would be to stand in line at the pharmacy or to get groceries and wait at the check-out.
So, my speculation is that there were not multiple trips because of the medication; but that there needed to be an appearance early enough, that would establish the alibi. From that Starbucks trip on out, she could pretty much go anywhere and do anything, that would take longer, because she already made the case (so she thought) that she couldn’t be doing anything with Kyron because she was seen at 9:12 in public.
So, say she hits up FM (with Kiara, while someone keeps an eye on Kyron in the truck at the back of the lot), gets her coffee and goes back to the truck, and makes a few more stops. She pre-plans the excuse of ‘oh they were out of medication at the one location so I had to go to another’ because it sounds reasonable; but in reality she can’t be bothered to spend a huge amount of time at her first stop, because she needs to be in and out quick to establish the start of her alibi timeline.
So, she figures, she has from 9:12 until whenever she (or someone pretending to be her) checks into the gym at 11:40, to make a few other stops and strengthen her alibi. However, she doesn’t realize that her last accounted for errand stop still leaves her with about 90 minutes of time that she doesn’t have an alibi for. My GUESS is that she figured that wouldn’t matter; that what was important was to establish the 9:12, because she thought no one would believe she’d be driving around with Kyron at that time and risk being caught.
At least to me, it sounds reasonable that she might’ve been thinking that way. Especially since, in her email, she claims that the belief was he disappeared between 9-10am. By her thinking, she’s already accounted for at 9:12, and her other errands would cover that time period up to and including 10am.
She figured anything that happened after 10am, was inconsequential.
JMO.
i think it is common knowlege that terri is a CSI buff. has anyone ever checked out any of the CSI episodes to see if there was a missing child episode? would that be worth anything? sorry if i sound stupid.
@CHRISTY….that pic/post was found at “Godlike Productions”(who in turn said that it came from “Marinade Dave” website – shortly after….it was removed from MD’s website, I believe for legal reasons it was removed.
http://www.reellifewisdom.com/taxonomy/term/love
“Underneath anger is hurt but underneath hurt is love.”
Funny People 2009 Eric Bana
I’m sorry, but the quote does not resonate with me. It sounds like a comment from an abusive spouse or parent. I don’t remember how it was used in the movie, so perhaps it’s just out of context for me. Terri seems to have had a lot of anger and must also hurt inside, but connecting her behavior (maybe not what you intended) to love or “love gone wrong” is too big a leap for me. “Love” is blamed for a lot of things, but I can’t bring myself to call those distortions “love”.
I have been impressed so far with both her ex’s responses to her current situation – or lack of “tabloid tell-all’s”. Either she was the perfect wife (except for 1 affair that was mentioned) until she left, or they are to be complimented on their gentlemanly responses to media questioning and tabloid opportunities.
Another comment from the movie wisdom site above:
“Love is the only shocking act left on the planet.”
Valentine’s Day 2010 Ashton Kutcher
As-The Blink-Turns….
Seriously-
Don’t be pissed because you can’t hang. You make an allegation you can’t back up, get called on it and so now you troll?
Lemme guess, your in a gardening club?
Scroll and Roll Past the Troll peeps.
B
@puzzled -you’re kidding right? You have no faith in Blink’s information? Even with the smiley face it doesn’t look right. Wow you must have more experience and training than Blink. I would love to know your background. I’m inclined to believe based on your previous comments that you are a nay-sayer friend of TH. MOO.
@Nake -A predator? Well yes, if this was all planned as LE thinks then I guess whoever took Kyron was preying on him…therefore a predator. But IMO not the complete unknown predator you are suggesting. Statistically speaking, all of these other things that happened in one day in one 3-hour time period are not just a bunch of coincidences and misunderstandings – this was planned, planned, planned (but poorly planned),and the execution of the plan either did or did not work out as was desired.
Obie- thanks for the support.
People, these women, under no set of circumstances, are going to stump the caliber and experience of LE on this case.
As Capt Gates said, this case is not going to fall into their lap.
This case is in the prosecutorial phase, whether we like it or not.
B
We probably only know a little tidbit of what LE knows. Whoever pulled this off was not very smart and I bet LE is on to them way more than they know, big time.
Interesting link: http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Landscaper-in-alleged-murder-for-hire-plot/DsZPsC9z3UujvXc6ZrUh-Q.cspx
Apparantly TH called LE to report a tresspasser. Not sure if this means there was yet another call after the sting? Or whether he actually completed the sting? This really throws an interesting spin on the LS being involved in a kidnapping theory. If we assume LE can prove TH and LS had communicated prior to June 4, then we can assume she called LE as soon as she saw LS because she feared him. Of course this is assuming she did not suspect this was a sting. Also of other interest, the LS appreared before the GJ today. I guess that means he’s not a POI? Immunity? Anyone have thoughts on how these new details affect the theories out there?
He actually appeared last week.
B
I have a question about the disposable cell phones and technology, if anyone can answer it here. I am not very tech savvy about cell phones and I had to ask. Is it feasible that LE/FBI/Secret Service has the capability to capture and observe any cell phone pinging from cell phones that they don’t have numbers to? Or do they have to already have the numbers? Furthermore, is it possible to capture any communication from cell phones that they don’t have numbers to?
I was also thinking about why the LE scheduled the press conference several days in advance, instead of going forward sooner? Could it be because they wanted to hear particular GJ testimony first, so they had everything carefully documented and in order? It just makes me wonder how much the LE knows and how methodical they are being in compiling all of the evidence. Were they trying to send a strong message to certain potential suspects by going about it the way they did?
The press conference certainly made me feel like LE had a firm handle on the case, even if they still can’t figure out where sweet Kyron is as of yet.
The murder for hire story has never sat well with me. Why would the landscaper ask for money when it wasn’t carried out? Why wait until this investigation to come forward about it? I am beginning to think the lanscaper is currently in jail. This would account for the “sting” operation whereby the police went with him to Terri’s house. Sounds too dumb otherwise. Another board claims the landscaper testified before the grand jury with a policeman accompanying him. Again – indicates jail inmate to me. I just don’t put that much credibility in jailbird’s stories, especially one that doesn’t make sense and which definitely put the focus on Terri. Ironically, the facts in this case make me question SO MUCH – except that first press conference is embedded in my mind and it read “guilt” to me loud and clear. My dog looks just like that when she has done something wrong…
http://www.kptv.com/news/24614018/detail.html
Zinna said “Is it feasible that LE/FBI/Secret Service has the capability to capture and observe any cell phone pinging from cell phones that they don’t have numbers to?”
Yes. It works by adding a computer that pretends to be a cell phone tower. It was demonstrated at DefCon a few weeks ago.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/intercepting-cell-phone-calls/
I’m more of a lurker than a poster but something has been bothering me all along, so thought I’d throw this out there and see what others think. I’m having a hard time reconciling the supposed degree of planning, premeditation and cunning that some ascribe to TH, with all of the behaviors she displayed after Kyron disappeared, and which have generated so much suspicion. For example, if she was so cold and collected to be able to whisk him away, do him in and dispose of him in a few hours (seems like a huge task to me) and then return home and jump on the computer with nary a hair out of place, why would she then be so obtuse as to engage in an ongoing display of behaviors that so many believe are “off”? For the record, I have no idea what really happened and who is responsible and no real hypotheses either – whole situation seems bizarre. Prayers for Kyron.
Who meticulously plans a kidnapping that makes Lindberg look like a hack, and then runs around like a chicken with their had cut off for hours with their phone on, pinging away?
Somebody in a freakin panic.
B
Some people have theorized that Kyron was sent/went back to the truck to meet up with Terri and/or an accomplice.
Why would he go out to the truck without his jacket on a rainy day? IIRC, his backpack and jacket were left in the classroom.
Blink
I do remember reading the LS appeared last week but I can’t find the link. I was wondering if the article specifically referred to the LS as the one involved in the “sting?” I just thought it odd because Koin reported it this morning inferring it happened yesterday and specifically referred to the LS involved in the “sting,” although the article does not state when he appeared. I only ask because there are two LS’s reporting to have been approached by TH. Perhaps one spoke last week and the other this week. Also, does it mean the LS has immunity and how does that affect your theory now? I remember you stated you felt RS was a key player.
Teri attends science fair with Kyron “in a blend in the crowd white truck” , sets up confusion with drs appts, takes alibi pic, gets kyron out of school with no witnesses that Teri is aware of {with or without Dedes help}. Beelines it to the 1st FM to get proof she was there shortly after 9. Teri states “it” happened between 9 and 10, so she needed to be seen soon after 9 and as far away as in, 7 miles from the school.
She parked far away from the entrance so any cameras wouldn’t show the inside of the truck and have Kyron be seen. So she had to go to a store with a large parking lot so she could park far away. Kyron alone in the car…she buzzed in and out in a hurry…just get a receipt {starbucks maybe}.
Once she had the 9:12 time stamped receipt she had to kill time until the 10am start of school. She needed to make sure the school wasn’t going to call about Kyrons absence. So off to the 2nd FM. Good story about the 1st FM not having the medicine so she had an excuse to go to the 2nd one. She picked one further away to waste time….she could NOT be seen with Kyron so she couldn’t go shopping and take him with her, couldn’t leave him in the car, couldn’t go to a drugstore…parking lot to close to cameras.
Ok, so now its alittle past 10, the school didn’t call to find out where Kyron was so now the coast is clear. Time to pick up Dede, otherwise know as “driving a cranky baby around”. They “do it, dispose of Kyron in a preplanned place in the woods/field. The truck is muddy. Dede drops Teri off at the gym, goes to the car wash or somewhere to clean the car, picks Teri up from the gym, Dede gets dropped back off at work, Teri goes home, posts the alibi pic and the rest is history.
Teri and Dede sucker gullible girls into buying secret phones, they let them think they need it for girl talk, but Teri and Dede need it to communicate about their nefarious activity. Michael Cook is a red herring which just speaks to the icy callous person Teri is.
Several months later when the law suit is settled with the school for millions of dollars, Teri and kaine divorce leaving a nice settlement for her and the baby, Teri has liposuction and tons of other cosmetic surgery and gets back into bodybuilding, Dede buys a big farm. Oh what a wonderful plan those crazy redheads hatched. Worked out well for them don’t ya thinK?
Re:
Ceci Aug 13 @5:57pm
***
Though there is no offical answer to backpack & jacket,
It appears to “show TMH left Kyron @ school” &
“on the school watch Kyron disappeared/ was taken”.
(ie. “Part of TMH alib”i)
cbickel says: Mockinbird…You family dynamic post was very well thought out, I agree with alot of what you said except for the pictures. Look at not only Kyron’s eyes, but the other children too. His smile? Most kids, be they boys or girls (yep I’ve got kids) refuse to smile that big when they start losing their teeth, Kyron’s smiles are big, toothless and happy.
CassieS says: @Mockingbirdsings . . . Poor lil Kyron ~! with the big big smile like he was trying to show everyone how happy he was but I always thought it was a forced smile~! Bless this lil boy
Word Girl says: Mockingbird–
If Kyron felt he was being watched or critiqued at every turn by the Master Teacher, he would have done the ‘walk in the room and act goofy’ thing to avoid any focus. But if he was beginning to also have trouble at school, the treatment at home could have been getting worse.
I have had trouble with kids who were undiagnosed asperger’s syndrome (and had completely good, supportive homes) but once it was diagnosed, it was a little easier to deal.
Could Kyron have been asserting himself in some way because he feared, that after James went away, he was *next*?
——————————–
I copied parts of the comments above which seem related to each other. Kyron’s smile has caught the attention of everyone following this story, and rightly so. We don’t, however, all see the same things in his smiles, which are only snapshots in time of a child we don’t personally know, so drawing too many conclusions is not helpful. We can agree, though, that smiles do not always indicate someone is happy.
I have worked with children and with families with a child who has Asperger’s Syndrome and also have a young child in my family who has many sensory issues and likely has Asperger’s although too young to have gotten a diagnosis yet. My immediate response when I saw Kyron’s first picture in the newspaper was to wonder if he had some Asperger’s traits. I was not alone in that observation. I have not written about it because I did not want to upset his parents anymore than they already were and it seemed just a gut reaction to a photo. Now, it may be relevant in some way. (None of us can make that determination, but we could look at the information that suggests it be considered or ruled out.)
A child with Asperger’s Syndrome (an autism spectrum disorder with many degrees of variation easily Googled for descriptions and parent resources) has average or higher intelligence and can be very focused on a particular task for long periods of time. Transitions from one task to another can be difficult. He (or she) may also have sensory issues (textures, picky eater, strong need for organization of specific items or activities) and a lack of understanding of subtle social interactions such as facial expressions and tone of voice, leading him to respond in inappropriate or misunderstood ways.
Adults who live with a child with these issues can become very frustrated if they do not understand the issues. IMO, there is no way Terri would have recognized or understood parenting a child with Asperger’s no matter what training or experience she claims to have. DY and TY have no formal training, but seem to have the empathy to pick up on his communication needs.
We know that Kyron does not smile all the time because there are some pictures that show other expressions, because DY said he sometimes got upset when things (toys, Legos) didn’t go together like he wanted, and because he was having some difficulty at school. Asperger’s can be suspected at a very early age, but often doesn’t begin to show up until closer to Kyron’s age when friendships and school work get more complicated and less concrete. The happiness we see would always have been sincere, but he also could have a “standard” response to cameras which would include the best smile he could give (teeth wouldn’t matter).
The inability to accurately determine nonverbal communications would have compounded the difficulty in understanding family issues and what happened with James. Asperger’s traits can mean a child will sometimes respond to others in ways that seem off the wall or irritating. (Better responses can be taught, but not forced.) Many famous people who accomplished great things are said to have had Asperger’s traits – Einstein’s ability to totally focus on and solve complex, very long problems while failing at simpler tasks is often mentioned as an example. Some argue whether, in nurturing environments, Asperger’s is even a disability, but the degree of difficulty with relationships and how unhappy that makes a person’s life probably determines it best.
Again – I have to say: (1) no matter what Kyron may or may not have done, a child is NEVER at fault or responsible for what any adult thinks, feels, or does, and (2) this is NOT an attempt to label Kyron’s behaviors or suggest an actual diagnosis because that is inappropriate and impossible here.
Asperger’s traits, mild or otherwise, exhibited by any child is a challenge for parents. I know of a few extreme cases (undiagnosed at the time) where children were abused in an attempt to force “good” behaviors, were eventually removed from their homes, and after adoption are now thriving. I know others who are loved, nurtured, and appreciated for the creative, funny, talented, and wonderful kids they are. If these things do apply to Kyron, a normal parent would see him as even more unique and intriguing, not “broken”, and would work with teachers and counselors to help as needed.
Blink writes: “lemme guess, your in a gardening club?”
She (I assume its a she) was plugging a silly psychic site some weeks back. Self-professed psychics have an exaggerated sense of entitlement. They demand to be spotlighted and become vicious when not taken seriously. In criminal cases, they are a nuisance and a media hazard. In my view, they’re dangerous in these situations and deserve the scorn heaped upon them.
But they knew I was going so say that…
We’re not *lurking* on oregonlive, we’re doing research! ….LOL
@ the queen says:”i think it is common knowlege that terri is a CSI buff. has anyone ever checked out any of the CSI episodes to see if there was a missing child episode? would that be worth anything? sorry if i sound stupid” -
- one of the “tools” is to review prior crimes (actual or tv). It is all about repeat and pattern. i’m sure LE had reviewed TH web history with sites visited and videos viewed – imo, it is very likely that TH had employed some of the ideas, and besides, nothing is new
, as history (and crime history) repeats itself.
After reading a lot of new posts, I wonder if TH and DD planned the abduction of Kyron and then enter mystery person, possibly LS associate or whoever, and the plan went to hell. Somehow, Kyron ended up with mystery person/persons and TH had to adjust accordingly. She thought X was going to happen and Y was the meeting place but whoever really ended up with Kyron changed all that.
TH obviously didn’t have anything good for Kyron planned that day. I still think it’s quite likely she wanted him “kidnapped” for a while, maybe a few weeks and then returned somehow so she could file a lawsuit against the school and leave her unhappy marriage. Maybe TH and DD were supposed to ride off into the sunset with just Kiara. Who knows.
But someone foiled TH’s plan, kept Kyron when he was supposed to be returned or just took him from her and DD somehow. IMO….
The one thing that makes me wonder is Kyron’s backpack still in the classroom. He would be easily distracted because of kid excitement but would possibly remember to go back and get it if he were leaving willingly in a vehicle.
If Tanner’s account is true (but who knows), and he went to see “the electric one,” is it possible someone lured him away by showing him something on the school property? Something interesting electrical-related at the school? A longshot…
I would be curious what projects in the fair were electric-related and who created it.
Blink,
Clarification please: which was terri, meticulous? or panicked?
panicked, clearly.
B
Who meticulously plans a kidnapping that makes Lindberg look like a hack, and then runs around like a chicken with their had cut off for hours with their phone on, pinging away?
Somebody in a freakin panic.
B
————
If Terri was in a panic, then to me that implies that SOMETHING was planned but then got out of control. I am not on board the Terri-is-innocent-train, something is obviously beYOND hinky, but I just really struggle, no matter how narcissistic she is, with the idea of her plotting Kyron’s murder. Obviously I struggle with that every time there is the death or abuse of a child…but it doesn’t seem completely on target here.
@MockingbirdSings
Oh gosh, I should have explained my reasoning for posting that quote. “Underneath anger is hurt but underneath hurt is love.”
It was a bad choice for a quote to explain what I was trying to say. In no way was I saying that love is an excuse for hurtful behavior. It NEVER is. Emphasis intentional.
What I meant to say (and should have) is that I believe poster 42′s specific anger toward Kaine reveals that she knows him (and Terri) on a far more personal level than she is revealing. Strong anger comes from somewhere. In her case, I think the anger comes from the love for her friend, Terri.
@angelab: The only problem I can see is that you said, “so she could file a lawsuit against the school and leave her unhappy marriage”.
But what about Kaine? How would only Terri be awarded the damages from that suit?
The other problem I see with this particular kidnapping scenario is that TH would have to persuade Kaine (and maybe Desiree–sorry I don’t know OR laws on their custody arrangemt) to bring the suit. To pay the attorneys. To risk attorney costs not knowing the outcome. Usually the party with deeper pockets can hold out longer. Though for PR reasons, schl system might have eventually settled the case.
Someone on another site asked why, if they have known TH’s timeline for so many weeks, are they only now suddenly asking for validation from witnesses or more information on possible sightings at various locations. My thought is that are they are in a state right now of trying to determine DDs involvement before offering her any kind of immunity or plea.
Blink can you comment on that? Do you think there is a chance that DD is portraying herself as an after the fact confidante when in fact she is a very active accomplice? She’s offering to talk about what was “told” to her, in exchange for lenience, but LE wants to make sure that they don’t make a “deal with the devil” only to find out her true level of involvement after that fact?
It’s not my theory, but IF Terri planned a kidnapping there was one BIG problem with the plan: it left her vulnerable to being cited as the last person to see Ky.
And you see what that has lead to. Suspect #1–the last person to see Ky. Would she have just ASSUMED other people at school would see him AND be able to reliably fix a time??
I don’t know, but if I was TH and evil enough to plan a kidnapping, I’d of had it done on Desiree’s watch. This all just doesn’t add up for me yet. But I remember the Melissa Huckaby case, I had so many questions and doubts, but once LE showed their hand, there was no doubt in my mind she was guilty.
OMG Blink, IMO you are so right on your comment @jmmanddwm! WTF, trying to so carefully plan out a scheme and then forgetting the cell phone pings. I was considering for awhile the perp(s) might be deliberately flying all over the place to let the pings happen on purpose. Or throwing the phones down to ping in one place while going to another, and then going back to get them. But to let them ping in a certain place and then not even admit you were in that vicinity, well DUH. Can you say “PANIC”. Better watch out perp(s), those little bits of circumstantial evidence have a way of creeping up on you. Put all together, they can make a pretty good case against you. You are fooling NO ONE. You’re just stupid enough to THINK you are. Hope you enjoy life in the slammer cause that’s what’s coming, make no mistake there. You don’t even know the meaning of PANIC yet. Man, if I were involved in this in ANY way, I’d be cutting a deal and talking SOOOO fast.
My working timeline right now is as follows. Just my uneducated opinion on the little information I know.
8:30-8:45 TH in school with Kyron, DD in truck with Kiara, moves truck’s location?
8:45-9:00 Leaves with Kyron after making it looks as though she left alone. DD leaves Skyline in her own truck and goes to work.
9:12 TH Establishes presence at Fred Myers store. Delivers drug to Kyron. DD at work.
9:15-10:00 TH drives around allowing drug to take effect.
10:00 TH parks at second FM, checks on Kyron, he is deceased, panics that the deed is actually done and calls DD for help.
10:15-11:30 TH picks up DD at the farm. Together they dispose of the body.
11:40-12:40 DD drops TH off at the gym with Kiara. Takes TH’s car to be washed. TH showers at the gym. DD picks up TH and Kiara at the gym.
1:00-1:15 TH drops DD back at farm and returns home.
I hope that I am wrong. I hope that he is still alive.
Also, there are many holes though in my theory I know such as:
How is LS involved?
DD leaving work unannounced would be a red flag I would think, so I don’t think that was planned.
How does the initial ransom investigation play into this?
What is the sexual motivation?
Also:
I still think that a plan to sue the school might come into play.
I still think that a plan for TH and DD to be together at the end of this might come into play.
Blink
loved you Lindberg comment
Then runs around like a chicken with it’s head
cut off
If anyone reads Scared Monkeys, but I am not sure I read it, so please don’t quote this, but someone checked library cards and said that Teri had checked out a book on how to kill someone. Surely Le would have read this and checked it out to see if true, but you never know. They could have been lying or joking.
Re: Cell phone pings.
In case your mama didn’t tell you, a cell phone sends out pings even when the phone is *off*. The pings only stop when the battery is removed.
Not in every phone, but yes, in general your correct.
Honestly, the ping thing cannot be controlled. The software and capabilities via the secret service with a GPS interface, complete with “facing and angled” technology, has pin pointed the questions LE is asking right now.
They know within feet where Terri was the entire day. What they need to know, is where Kyron was.
B
Shannon says:
August 13, 2010 at 7:32 pm
I like your timeline Shannon. It works. The only thing I wonder about is the cell phone pings. You would think that while disposing of the body, the pings would show that TH & DD were in one place for a while. At least I think it would take some time, as no-one has found Kyron yet. I know that LE has been searching a lot lately, but they’re all over the place. Maybe they are searching for different things in different places? Cell phone in one place, body in another. Sorry to be so morbid, I hope Kyron is alive. Are they (DD and TH) really that smart (I don’t think they are BTW) that they could hide a body so no-one can find it? Even with an approximate location and cadaver dogs?
Mockingbird,
My husband use to be a subcontractor years ago at Intel. Security to go in and out of the buildings is very tight and I am sure in addition to the guard there is probably camera surveillance at all of the Intel buildings. Police have probably already reviewed surveillance at the particular Intel location in HIllsboro that Kaine works at.
There is a window from about 10:15 – 11:20 that TH and DD could have committed a murder and disposed of a body, regardless of anything else being true or false. That said, a murder, however heinous, is not considered an unusual crime. LE has described this as something other than usual, which is further evidenced by all the agencies involved. Could TH and DD do this, did they have time? Yes. Is that the story? I say no.
Update your timelines. TH was at FM store #2 by 9:30.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Grand-jury-witness-shares-her-June-4-encounter/ZRn4GrYpt0a0BAxulU8rEA.cspx
Clarification please: which was terri, meticulous? or panicked?
panicked, clearly.
B
—————–
Yes, following you on panicked since her account of the day was neither detailed or meticulous.
So the question to us would be..when did she become “panicked”?
The school? First FM stop? 2nd FM stop?
And how was she notified? A call? A note, a pair of glasses?
I’m gonna have to think this out..thanks blink, last couple of days I was duh?? Couldn’t process anything! Lol
I have a couple of thoughts to share, things that remain unresolved or have not been able to dismiss, yet.
* sensitive topic*
If anyone can clarify, was club seso on TH or KH’s fb page?
Is it possible Ky was subject to sexual abuse by someone?
I am not trying to be gross or insensitive, but I think it’s something we cannot ignore. Seeing that Blink has stated she is certain this crime is of a sexual nature, we must consider the options that would cause that kind of crime. Also, for TH to be unable to control herself from sexting in the middle of this horrible crisis, suggests to me, that she found nothing out of the ordinary with such an act or topic. If she has been involved in such an activity, is it too far a stretch to think she could have been involved in selling photos of herself or other people? Maybe a mutual partner/friend decided they would be interested in K’s photos over hers. It certainly might get her a bundle of $ to be stashed away for a rainy day since she is traditionally unemployed.
When thinking of lifestyle issues, going to the gym, gardening,childcare do not come to my top ten list. There has to be someother activities in play here. I also believe she and DD are more than friends. Think about it, DD has no children, no husband. What exactly do they have in common? The gym?
Just to clarify, these are just some awful considerations and I have no proof. I am just wondering if I am in left field alone.
@Midwest Mom: I’m with you and I’ve been trying to figure out for awhile now when she found out. If it was on June 4, then let’s look at when her behavior began to fall apart (and her account of her time).
You asked: “The school? First FM stop? 2nd FM stop?
And how was she notified? A call? A note, a pair of glasses?”
I’m thinking things were going along like a normal day through the 2nd FM stop. Could have been at that stop. When the “driving around to soothe Kiara’s earache” story fell is where her behavior fell apart.
Having a problem with all the complications the glasses at that point would present for her. A note is too subject to forensics. What about a simple phone call from a throwaway phone?
All this assumes TH was notified that day, which may or may not be true. Also possible she only appears panicked if you start with the assumption that she found out that morning. It still could be that she was somewhere during the suspect time that she shouldn’t have been and didn’t want that to come out. Esp. if she’s innocent of Ky’s disappearance–and she was only trying to cover up that naughty thing, never suspecting she needed to reveal it to remove herself as a kidnapping suspect.
A couple of new reports regarding Kyron:
KOIN: Between 9:30-10:00 on June 4 Andrea Leckey, an ex-manager of Terri’s gym, ran into Terri at the Walker Road (Beaverton) Fred Meyer. Leckey said the encounter was “odd” because Terri told her she had just come from the Skyline science fair, along with making a point of showing Andrea the photo of Kyron with his project. “She just made it a point to show me his photo.”
Leckey said this was the longest encounter she eve had with Terri. She also mentioned being aware that Kiara was not feeling well, but did not actually say if Kiara was with Terri at that time. Leckey has already testified to the grand jury.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Grand-jury-witness-shares-her-encounter-with/ZRn4GrYpt0a0BAxulU8rEA.cspx
KATU: Groundskeeper clarifies timeline to investigators. “Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. or 9 a.m., which means he could have missed seeing the Horman truck being in the two spots investigators are interested in, especially since he spent his time and attention at the school mowing the soccer field.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html
Ok, that katu article is a complete cluster. There were some good questions at the press conf, and there were some “beauties”, lol.
B
So Terri was panicked. Was she panicked because Kyron died from drugs or something else and this was not part of the plan? Was she panicked because bad guys snatched Kyron from her and threatened to tell everything they knew about her? She panicked as a result of what?
She’s clearly terrified and defensive in her emails. She feigns disbelief at what people are suspecting, possibly with merit. Could be all of the suspicions are completely off base from what really happened.
I continue to wish the sting would have never taken place. I fear that once she lawyered up the truth would never be known.
Thanks so much Blink, for that info about the cell pings. I’ve been trying to find out if the pings clearly indicated exactly where she had been (through triangulation) or whether they just pinged off the towers.