Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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I will with hold my judgment until we find out exactly what Kaine knew and when he knew it. Or if he is telling the whole truth now- If we later learn he willingly covered up on of his children being abused-
Blink, I fully understand what you are saying- and I agree- if Kaine only found out these things through another person than his filings are not truthful-
But I think it is possible that he knew and didnt know-he may have been in denial about his wife’s alcohol abuse.
http://allpsych.com/journal/alcoholism.html Snipped:
“Today, experts who study alcoholic families know that family and marital problems often start because of alcoholism, but they also learned that spouses and children may contribute to the drinker’s habit and make it worse. Some of the families allow heavy drinking to continue rather than deal with serious family problems, and keep the habit going in exchange for keeping the family together. Denial is an essential problem for alcoholics and family members. Family members use denial to rationalize the drinker’s alcohol dependency. In the beginning, denial is understandable because every family loves and wants to protect its members, but there comes a time when denial negatively affects family members”
“Unknowingly, codependent family members often become “enablers”. An enabler is “a person who unknowingly helps the alcoholic by denying the drinking problem exists and helping the alcoholic to get out of troubles caused by his drinking” (Silverstein, 1990, p.65). The enabler will clean up the alcoholic’s vomit and make excuses to his or her boss, teacher, or friends. The enabler lies for the alcoholic, and thus enables the alcoholic to continue drinking.”
“While alcoholism treatment programs such as Alcoholics Anonymous help people with alcohol dependence to stop drinking and improve their life styles, family and marital therapy and various self-help groups help alcoholic families to improve their own well-being. Families of alcoholics need treatment just as much as alcoholics”
Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B
_____________________________
Because TH didn’t plan for Kyron to be killed or kidnapped. Kyron’s disappearance was collateral damage of some other thing TH got involved in–most likely related to ridding herself of Kaine. IMO
This is what I believe, have from day one, and is the reason I feel that the ruse with the LS cost them any knowledge she had.
I understand why they did it, I do not agree it was the only option and feel it was a major tactical error.
B
@rmacks: “It could easily have taken this long to recover emails that had been deleted by both parties.”
Actually, no — not if it’s just a matter of restoring data from a hard drive of computers taken early on. According to my computer expert son, “restoring data usually doesn’t take long once you can find where it is on the drive. Standard computer users don’t usually take extra steps to ensure complete deletion of data so finding it usually doesn’t take very long. People who know how drives work may often run tools to fully wipe and constantly over-write the drive but that usually wipes everything.”
On the other hand, if it’s taken LE this long to actually locate/round up other e-mail recipients, or online e-mail accounts TH used (and not necessarily downloaded to a desktop or personal device) then that would be a plausible scenario for “new” e-mail records to be developed.
Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B
*************************************
DY said she felt TH was projecting anger she harbored toward DY on to Kyron. If that is true then June 4th was the perfect storm with a science fair for cover and pending trip to Medford later that day. I know Blink you strongly feel she’s guilty of letting the vampire in and I respect that but I am beginning to sway back to TH being the vampire. I realize DY could be exaggerating about the letters because she is a grieving Mother but if what she’s saying is true I smell motive. Motive to remove Kyron from the house forever and motive to destroy his Mother at a time when she was looking forward to seeing him.
I would have to say, is there enough for me to see a motive tied to Terri? Yes, on the surface, because I think sometimes people think a motive has to make sense. It does not.
I keep going back to one thing. Kyron did not leave the school with Terri Horman that day. If he had, she would be in jail for something, make no mistake about that.
They published Dede flyers and truck flyers and Terri flyers and to date, they cannot and do not have a witness or shred of evidence that Kyron left with her. They are looking for a 3rd person because there IS a third person.
B
With all respect, Kaine’s statements are NOT mutually exclusive. If, for example, TMH told him that the meds the doctor gave her made her sleepy or slurry or whatever, and he thought that THAT was the problem, then discovered that she was boozing and it wasn’t prescription medicines taken as prescribed that were causing the problem, then his filing with the court AND his statements about a sneaky drunk are both true. I have lived with a sneaky substance abuser, and thought for over a year that ALLERGY medicine was causing the odd behaviour, foggy memory of the previous evening’s events, etc – because that was what he said – until I finally caught on to what was really going on.
Obviously, I have no idea what HER excuse was – but they can be pretty convincing.
I’ve had in the back of my mind for awhile now that Terri hated Kyron. My thoughts are that she was motivated primarily by power and money, and secondarily by sex, which she also used as a manipulation tool. Complaints about money are prevalent in the few written communications we’ve seen from her. I think she married each of her husbands looking for a free ride, so to speak. I think she thought of Kaine as “rich” and was disappointed in his penny pinching attitude.
In addition to the possibility that she blamed Kyron for problems between her and Kaine, I also think she just hated him. Think about Terri, her athleticism, her body building, her bragging about how strong she is. Kyron was WEAK. Skinny, bad eyesight, timid. I can see a personality like hers HATING that weakness, and taking a certain pleasure in crushing him.
When you write/ask: B: “Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
Sadly it does make sense to me… and I have seen it before.. it is SPELLED MONEY ( child support)
KATU news obtains April 6th TH email:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html
PORTLAND, Ore. – Two months before Kyron Horman disappeared from his elementary school, his stepmother, Terri Horman, told a friend in at least one e-mail that her husband, Kaine Horman, was overbearing.
In the April 6 e-mail obtained by KATU News, Terri writes the following about Kaine: “I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn’t – spent all of my 30k to do so. …
“I am The one who was able to get him glasses (I noticed at 6 months when I was working with him but Kaine wouldn’t go in to a doc until he was 2 years – yeah – he’s farsighted 750)). He’s on me about being fat. Wants me to do another show. Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it’s my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”
~~~
First time I’m reading this type of email. Gotta say, if this was venting by TH, it could be what caused her to “snap”.
Just saying .. as a person who has always had financial independence and enjoyed personal freedom .. this “control” would cause me to snap .. not to kill an innoncent child, but MFH .. hell yea!!
Someone mentioned domestic violence several upthreads ago .. well here you go. Extreme control of finances, freedom, self-esteem by the abuser is classic definition of domestic abuse.
“Domestic violence and abuse are used for one purpose and one purpose only: to gain and maintain total control over you. An abuser doesn’t “play fair.” Abusers use fear, guilt, shame, and intimidation to wear you down and keep you under his or her thumb.”
Kaine’s classic “I didn’t know things were so bad” is because he’s failed to recognize his own part in the environment he helped to create. He wants a psychologial exam of TH?? Look out .. one will be required of him … and it won’t be flattering.
I can see it unfolding now. Extreme emotional abuse and stress by KH will be part of the defense.
Am I biased? Yes! My early work experience was as a counselor for a crisis agency (5 yrs) in domestic violence, rape and child sexual assault. Later served as a board member of a crisis agency.
Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B
Yes, as always. This is a good point Blink. Several other things to consider:
Would TH be sending out these emails if she planned to act out against Ky?
Would TH plan to harm Ky and NOT plan an alibi for her time that day?
Would TH harm Ky while Kitty is sitting there in the truck?
Would TH have time to get from FM 2 to Sauvie, do something, and back to the gym by the FM 2 in approx. 90 minutes?
Would TH go to Sauvie and elsewhere to harm Ky with her cell phone pinging away? She knows from what she has read and watched on TV that cell phone pinging is a huge tool for LE.
Would TH talk to DY about sending Ky to Medford to live if she was going to harm him?
Throw all the tomatoes you want, I’m trying NOT TO HAVE TUNNEL VISION. I still think someone else hurt Ky, but yes, TH is culpable for many reasons. Especially if she knew about it and didn’t contact LE, but drove around in a panic trying to find him and fix things.
And yes, maybe she just snapped and hurt him or had someone else do it for her. I cannot stand TH, find her repulsive on so many levels, but I’m still on fence as to how involved she actually was. If I want to believe in our judicial system and want it to apply to me, then I have to apply it to her as well. I’m running for cover now…
I would like to point out something I feel is very important to this case I caught from Kaine’s interview:
Kyron was abducted on June 4, from Skyline School, and it has been confirmed that he was to spend the weekend at Desiree and Tony Youngs home.
The following weekend or the 11th, would have been the last weekend he was home before the end of the school year on the 15th.
According to Kaine, they “split” the Summer, and Desiree gets the first 7-8 weeks.
Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B
______________________________
I agree with you 100%, That very day, Kyron was going to be be in medford for the weekend, then as you say the summer vacation. James was also living elsewhere. This would be a time for TH, KH, and kitty to connect together. Wouldn’t TH be under less stress at this time know that she was going to have less responsibility, breath, and possibly looking forward to the time with some excitement?
I say that respectfully. As a mother, sometimes we all need a break even from our own children. I love summer time with the kids, however the last week or so I look forward to school to starting and the extra time to get things accomplished that I don’t have time to do when I play with the kids.
AND stress. As time goes by and we learn more. I don’t see anything that jumps out at me that TH was portraying herself as mother of the year, the perfect mother and wife.. KH stated that she talked about their marriage to anyone who listened. Now we have e-mails written to someone whom she felt she could express her thoughts, feelings, emotions, about the “moment” and share what she was feeling. The lie detector test she shared with “anyone who would listen” friends family,even LE.
She does not to be a person who internalizes her feelings. Which does not add up for me as TH being the person who did something to Kyron. There doesn’t appear to be any built up rage with no outlet.
I know that Desiree is beyond grief and fear and anger, I don’t know how she’s even managing to hold it together this far, and I only wish there were something I could do to help. There isn’t. But at the very least, I can at least validate her feelings and give her credit that, even in her emotional state, Desiree is able to recognize the difference between displeasure and “a severe hatred for Kyron”.
I know how it feels to have my feelings minimized or dismissed, and I don’t want to do that to someone else, particularly someone else in Desiree’s situation. How insulting for Desiree to be going thru all of this and then have some imply that the “severe hatred” is all in her head, or that she’s just not in clear enough mind to recognize the tone and know “severe hatred” when it’s written. It makes me angry for Desiree just to read these statements.
Desiree, if you read here, I hope you know that many of us respect you and are amazed by your strength, wish we could help, and we support you fully and we believe that even in this horrible time, you know what you read and would not exaggerate it or misinterpret it. I believe you that TH wrote about a “severe hatred for Kyron” and I believe that even in this awful, awful time, you’ve behaved with dignity and grace, and strength I could only hope to muster. My prayers are with all of Kyron’s family who loved him, but especially you today.
Mother Hen says:
November 16, 2010 at 10:30 am
This particular email quite possiblely depicts someone that is being controled and monitored. The reason I asked if there was a Domestic Violence (DV) expert in the house is because these are signs of domestic abuse. Controling who one is able to see (friends, etc), needing to get this type of permission is a sign. Another sign is economic oppression. Big sign. It seems as though someone may not have valued anything that Terri did.
~~~
I posted my comment before seeing yours, Mother Hen … ABSOLUTELY, we are now seeing a fuller picture of life at the Horman’s and it is not all one sided as has been presented.
Let me say this, because I hate the way when we discuss an issue it seems that it repeatedly draws either a Team Kaine or Team Terri response. In other words, everything is always used to prove one’s cemented position in the matter.
I believe Kaine was a controlling person because two women he was married to, in my mind, have told me so, as has Kaine, imo, in his Intel email. Subjective yes, let’s just say I have a little experience in that area.
It has no bearing for me. It does not make me any less sorrowful for the pain of this grieving man. People are responsible for their own actions, and for a person to harm a child, let me assure you, it is a particular profile that has nothing to do with someone else’s actions. They would have always been capable of it.
If Terri Horman harmed Kyron Horman directly or indirectly, she was always capable of it, imo, no stimulus creates that ability in a person.
B
An abuser will deny that there is abuse, a victim will minimize the abuse.
Speculation on the timing:
1) Kyron knew something she didn’t want him to tell his mother.
2) There was a deadline — like a threat
3) Someone was in town
4) She didn’t plan it — someone else took Kyron and surprised her
My theory: Our initial thoughts were correct. TH lied about the doctor’s appt in order to take Ky away from the SF without suspicion. Ky went with her willingly. TH either drugged Ky right in the truck or took him somewhere and drugged him. Once chemically restrained (but probably still breathing), TH put Ky in a container…perhaps the blue container the Horman’s used for recyclables shown in a FB pic of Kiara. TH loaded the container in the truck, picked up DDS from the farm, and the two of them sunk the container in the water surrounding Sauvie Island.
TH then put Ky’s glasses in the mailbox to make it appear as if he was kidnapped.
I believe the storyline became complicated for LE because TH’s other immoral and illegal activities came to light as a result of the investigation.
I think LE has known the truth from day one. They just need solid evidence.
“Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?’
My first thought is this….a 7-8 week break coming up and KH didn’t know he was going that weekend?
My second thought would be if TH did this to Kyron, why not do it sooner? After she got him to school that day all she had to do was take him to his mom’s and she’d be free of him for weeks.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
Here’s a reason why TH or someone working with her would pick that weekend to harm Kyron — to silence him. She could have feared that he would tell Desiree something that weekend, or if not that weekend, then during the summer, that she did not want people to find out. Perhaps he had just learned something terrible about TH. She would have been able to monitor (and interrupt) telephone communications with DY, but not when he’d have the chance to talk to her live and in person.
Blink,
About why Terri would do anything to Kyron before a seven week break. I think I have written about what I think of Terri before. When I read that Kaine said Terri would want to punish Kyron for a whole evening and demanded his daily behavior report it reminded me of a few individuals I know. One was my third grade teacher. At that age I didn’t know how to express what was so terribly wrong with her but she would single out one boy who had some behavior/mental problems and she would push and push and push him until he snapped. She would drag him screaming to the office and then when she came back she would have a grin on her face. Then it would start all over again she was addicted to destroying him. Over and over this happened in a community that turned a blind eye to such goings on.
I have observed this behavior since…they single in on someone or an animal that is weaker. They start with demands to control…the need for control grows and escalates. They become blind to everything but that which is wrong…not being obeyed. The demands grow and grow and reason no longer exists for them. It didn’t matter that Kyron would be leaving she was not capable of getting him out of her head. My guess is that she spent most of Kyron’s final weeks or months setting him up over and over for punishments. The only thing that would have saved Kyron would have been exposing her behavior to the community. There is no logic or reason in the mind of this type of person. They are sick and only stop abusing out of self-preservation.
She was probably jealous of Desiree too. She is a beautiful woman who was growing in life and had good things happening after a rocky start and likely some bad decisions. Desiree is succeeding over the years. Terri is receding. My opinion is that while Desiree was building her life Terri was building a facade.
Overcoming the loss of Kyron …my prayers for Desiree and Kaine.
He can’t have ultimate control whilst claiming to have observed Terry’s spiral and stood passively by. That is not what control freaks do. Me thinks this has been spun to the point where the toy top is about to shatter.
Nice to see you Redrock.
B
Kryon was the first person TH wanted out of her home. She wanted Desiree to have custody of Kryon last summer. Kaine wouldn’t let that happen. So…
Kaine was the second person TH wanted out of her home. MFH plot reported began approx 6 months before Ky’s dissapearance. LS didn’t make that happen.
James was the third persosn TH wanted out of her home. Kaine was unaware and was traveling for work when this occured. TH made James leave in March or 3 months before Ky disappears. Too risky to have your 16 y/o son living in the same house while you are plotting/scheming the unimaginable.
As of June 4th…TH get’s her first wish (that began last summer) and Ky is no longer in her home.
The pattern I’m seeing is that TH is one determined woman and see’s that she gets what SHE WANTS no matter how she has to go about it. On After June 4th,she successfully eliminated every tie/relationship she had with everyone who lived on sheltered nook rd, including Kiara. James was safely tucked away for a reunion after Ky’s dissapearance.
Okay, I’ll bite. Terri Horman wanted Kyron “missing” before the summer vacation because she didn’t want to pay child support to Desiree and Tony Young. She is a SICK, SICK, person. I bet it goes back to childhood, Not wired right.
Terri was in favor of him moving to Desiree’s, and yes, that would have necessitated child support on HIS part, and she was in favor of it any way, so that is not it.
B
@Blink
“Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B”
Blink, I had this question in the early days, not as a TMH defender but as a sort of devil’s advocate question. She had legitimate ways to get him out of her hair, they were coming up very soon, problem solved.
This has been one of the main blocks to me thinking she did or arranged this specific act.
The emails really support her non-involvement.. if she is so CSI-clever, why would she leave a trail of damaging emails out there in the days leading up to him disappearing? If she was the great clue collector, she would not.
—————————————
“Remember, Amanda has her own set of concerns. Kristian H gets out of prison about a month from today, IIRC. Blink knows that he has other charges from earlier, not “visible” to public inspection. And Amanda’ letter was part of the court documents when Kristian was sentenced.”
@beejay: By “Amanda’s letter” do you mean this email, about KH’s controlling TH? If so, why?? And do you think Kristian’s issues have any bearing on this case???
Also, re: “My candidate was booked by MCSO on Nov 2. Sex crime charges, weapons charge, etc. Big bail $. If prison space is available, he should be away for awhile”
I think I would like to follow that case through the court; can you share any tips for keeping tabs on his journey?
For folks complaining that KH is too much a controller, strict, rigid etc, note that from his presser, HIS complaint with TH’s parenting is that she was too tough in her punishments (for bad homework/school report etc). He felt they were more extreme than what he would mete out.
To Terri re: “I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”
–Welcome to the real world, Madam. Poor thing.
To All: WHY did LE show these emails to Desiree? Where is Kyron?
KH: “What…what is, who is this person that we’ve been around at least the past 12 to 18 months. It’s not the person that we thought it was. It’s not the person that everybody thought it was. It’s a completely different person leading a separate life.”
Interesting and telling that he refers to her as an, “it.” But but does this tell us?
Mother Hen,
I don’t think I ever voiced this before…I didn’t want to seem like I was being malicious towards Terri. I say this as an observation that I felt the first time I saw the press conference and still do today. Terri to me acts like a dog about to make a load. She moves around looking for a safe place that she won’t be observed she keeps her head down as if to hide but her eyes are looking up searching to see if people are observing. I have never studied expressions and I’m sure some profiler could explain her body language in human terms…but I have never seen any human act that way and can only think of dogs.
I don’t put too much stock in her complaints about Kaine only because there is a question about who sent James away. I think that Terri may have been one of those people who isn’t so thankful for what they have received but focuses more on what they don’t have or what others have.
I come from the mindset if you are complaining about not having enough money the first thing you should get rid of are custom plates…from the DMV:
The $100 additional surcharge per two-year period for Custom Plates supports Oregon passenger rail programs.
Mother Hen I was happy to read your post even though my opinion differs you made me think about it this morning…now I’m late getting work done!
I thoought it was Kaine who was supposed to have Kyron for the first half of the summer. He mentioned spending July 4th in California with friends…and then Desiree had reserved the houseboat for August. Did they change the time arrangement for this summer..with Kyron spending the latter half of the summer vacation with Desiree?
I would like to point out something I feel is very important to this case I caught from Kaine’s interview:
Kyron was abducted on June 4, from Skyline School, and it has been confirmed that he was to spend the weekend at Desiree and Tony Youngs home.
The following weekend or the 11th, would have been the last weekend he was home before the end of the school year on the 15th.
According to Kaine, they “split” the Summer, and Desiree gets the first 7-8 weeks.
Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B
******************************************
“Kyron saw it all”
Couldn’t risk him sharing what had been going on.
IMO I’m not sold on the fact Kaine wasn’t aware before the bus stop.
IIRC, Kaine said that he and Kyron were going on an extended trip to CA after school got out. Perhaps they were going to split the summer up differently this year.
@Kim in PA says:
November 16, 2010 at 12:45 pm
My theory: Our initial thoughts were correct. TH lied about the doctor’s appt in order to take Ky away from the SF without suspicion. Ky went with her willingly. TH either drugged Ky right in the truck or took him somewhere and drugged him. Once chemically restrained (but probably still breathing), TH put Ky in a container…perhaps the blue container the Horman’s used for recyclables shown in a FB pic of Kiara. TH loaded the container in the truck, picked up DDS from the farm, and the two of them sunk the container in the water surrounding Sauvie Island.
TH then put Ky’s glasses in the mailbox to make it appear as if he was kidnapped.
I believe the storyline became complicated for LE because TH’s other immoral and illegal activities came to light as a result of the investigation.
I think LE has known the truth from day one. They just need solid evidence.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kim in PA -I totally agree with you. I have been of this thinking from Day 5 as well, after seeing TH in the first presser. Pure anger and revenge was her motive, possible psychotic break. Contrary to other beliefs, I have never thought this to be a sexually motivated crime. Tho, those that have that theory, say it loosely, so that pretty much any scenario will fit under that rule and they will be right…even as little as, “she wanted out of the marriage to have sex with another man or something.”
After spending a great deal of time putting together and analyzing the timeline and other known facts, I have always believed that she took him from school (chose chaotic day, Dr. appt. confusion, told Ky to meet her out front), drugged him as she set out to establish alibi, went to the second store, cuz he was not fully “asleep” yet -was able to be moderately “normal” when meeting AL simply because she had not at this point killed him. And her method for killing would have been drugs combined with suffocation (i.e not messy). She parked far away in the parking lot at both stores to conceal the fact that he was in the truck…(alone? I don’t know…he was obedient after all) then took off, POSSIBLY picked up Deedles, disposed, and rushed back to the gym, and fired off more emails to teacher and Des to cover, as well as posting FB pics. Borrowing the truck and not picking up the project, dragging behind on the way to the bus stop… Then yes, glasses in mailbox to imply kidnapping. Late “nightcap” down by Jim Kelly’s…while house swarming with cops? Also, remember that the family did NOT go in front of cameras for 5 days. It felt, “off” to me. This told me that they did probably think it was kidnapping, tho not sure why I interpret it that way. The other variation to this scenario is that it was not DS, but one of Pumala/Fuhrer family as accessory/accomplice -a family that interjected themselves into the investigation inexplicably early on against LE advice -and often guilty do just that -insert themselves.
I don’t get why the person who got these emails didn’t jumb up and
Report them
if I had recieved them I would have been making calls
I don’t see any point of blaming Kaine he is doing that himself
TJ is back at GLP talking about what DS is saying
these people!!!!!
@ madilu
Interesting thought on Munchausen’s. Below are a few symptoms. Note #s 1, 5, 6, 7, & 9:
What are the symptoms of Munchausen syndrome by proxy?
Certain characteristics are common in a person with MSP:
1. Often is a parent, usually a mother, but can be the adult child of an elderly patient
2. Might be a health care professional
3. Is very friendly and cooperative with the health care providers
4. Appears quite concerned (some might seem overly concerned) about the child or designated patient
5. Might also suffer from Munchausen syndrome (This is a related disorder in which the caregiver repeatedly acts as if he or she has a physical or mental illness when he or she has caused the symptoms.)
6. Lie about the child’s symptoms.
7. Physically harm the child to produce symptoms.
8. The mother may fake symptoms of illness in her child by adding blood to the child’s urine or stool, withholding food, falsifying fevers, secretly giving the child drugs to make the child throw up or have diarrhea, or using other tricks, such as infecting intravenous (given through a vein) lines to make the child appear or become ill.
9. Episodes of staring into space (“seizure disorder”)
Does anyone other than DY and KH know what these emails say? Has anyone else actually seen them? All we have is another TV appearance by DY who has been known to embellish in the past. I will wait to see the actual emails before deciding if TH actually hated Kyron. I am not trying to excuse anyone but if past behavior is looked at there has been so much said and lots of finger pointing which has not always been the case.Now we see that KH and DY are on opposite sides spitting venom. If LE really is handing out such info to the families I have a low opinion of their investigative techniques.
According to Kaine, they “split” the Summer, and Desiree gets the first 7-8 weeks.
Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B
~~~~
interesting question….the answer could lend itself to the ‘keep Kyron silent’ camp…and it could lend itself to the ‘TH was set up camp’…..
Blink said:
According to Kaine, they “split” the Summer, and Desiree gets the first 7-8 weeks.
…….
Kaine said he was taking Kyron for Ice cream and play video games after he came home from school..
Per Desi Terri should have been on the road already when the call came he was missing
Per below Kaine said they should be on Vacation right now in Califorina for extended period of time
Transcript Of Interview With Kyron Horman Parents
POSTED: 6:48 am PDT June 25, 2010
Kaine Horman: Vacation. We were actually supposed to be on vacation right now. We were really looking forward to going down and visiting some friends in California. We were going to be there for an extended period of time. A lot of the families down there have kids around his age that he knows so we were really excited about that.
Transcript Of Interview With Kyron Horman Parents
POSTED: 6:48 am PDT June 25, 2010
http://www.kptv.com/news/24037975/detail.html
beejay says:
November 16, 2010 at 8:55 am
Emails to Amanda Howard, but it’s not gonna take us anywhere.
_________________________
DY and KH said the comment by Amanda Howard was said to be a lie told by TH.
“Someone had to watch the baby,” said Amanda Howards, the former wife of Kaine’s brother Kristian. “Terri was her friend. She moved in just to help with the baby.”
—Amanda, Kaine and Desiree were family they already had a relationship. When terri came in the picture, “someone” had to introduce her Amanda as….DY friend, the baby sitter, KH roommate. Seriously! Someone introduces Terri, then says we will let terri explain the circumstances of the relationship and in 8 yrs time Amanda never heard anything different??
It has no bearing for me. It does not make me any less sorrowful for the pain of this grieving man. People are responsible for their own actions, and for a person to harm a child, let me assure you, it is a particular profile that has nothing to do with someone else’s actions. They would have always been capable of it.
If Terri Horman harmed Kyron Horman directly or indirectly, she was always capable of it, imo, no stimulus creates that ability in a person.
B
Blink: VERY well said. All of us have bad things and bad people happen in our lives; it is how we respond to those catalysts that define who we are; it is how we respond that shows our character and our virtue (or lack thereof); it is how we respond that reflects our true spirit and nature.
I have had a number of “bad” things happen, but from each bad thing came a good thing–faith is, to me, about knowing and trusting that this too shall pass and the way will become clear. I’m not saying just take whatever comes at you, but I am saying be true to yourself and ask for help and find the next path when something bad does happen.
@Kim in PA & Madilu: Same thoughts here along those lines. It came to me when trying to define what Kiara could have seen that was “unimaginable horror” and I had an image of Kyron stun gunned (cool electric thing he went trustingly to see) and packed into the box still alive and tossed, weighted into a non-metal (Blink said this above) container. The container might have been weighted with something on the outside, or inside, but it might be part of what LE is searching for in addition to the container since Blink couldn’t make reference to the other stuff. Very neat, no blood, etc. I hate the thought, but your description makes sense to me, too.
What brought on the search at SI? I really want to know.
Based on what we have learned about phones in the “Sexting” drama, what can we learn about cell phones pinging? And WHICH person’s phone TRULY pinged? We have a need to be curious.
I think I recall Lea stating that it is possible that Kaine KNEW Rudy. If this is true, could Kaine have been getting a little help from his other friend…..maybe like he may have been getting a little help from MC? Sure makes me wonder.
Out of the blue, MFH sting comes up. THEN, the sexting between TH and MC (and maybe Kaine) is VERY SIMILAR to the sexting that went on between TH and RS. Hmmmm.
What makes anyone think that Terri really planned this totally out before hand ~ Sounds like she was getting more & more abusive & yes “the boiling pot of hate” was growing more & more “God knows the rotten everyday things she did to Kyron to make him not even want to open his eyes in the morning knowing what the day would hold for him by her hands….That would explain his “acting out” if that was true and then when his older brother moved out , he probably for sure felt deserted in the situation~The more she talked about it or sent emails the more she boiled~ then the thought of 7 or 8 weeks with kyron “the poor little object of her “unhappiness~& hatred for everything that had ever gone wrong in her life” could have made her snap & do the unthinkable~ In her unstableness she might have gotten a clear thought out of her twisted mind but I doubt it~ I really think she was acting out of her feelings alone & just didnt give a damn about Little Kyron~ and I totally agree with Desiree ~Kaine is not a stupid man and he should have stepped in when he saw there were problems & trust me I am sure there were plenty of signals..In my own opinion~!
I always read here but never comment. I just wanted to say that I have noticed whenever anyone feels terri is guilty they are accused of having tunnel vision when clearly the people who believe she isn’t guilty are just as one sided. There are some of you who no matter what comes out you excuse it. For example; new emails surface detailing Terri’s hatred of Kyron and you say…maybe Kaine altered the emails or maybe Desiree is exagerating. My question is, just exactly how much circumstantial evidence do you need? Sometimes things really are what they seem.
Emphasis on the circumstantial. I would offer you feel the way you do, because as you profess, TH is guilty, and THAT is one sided.
Show your case then, because as it stands, it was not enough to produce an indictment, so what do you know that we do not?
People, this is about Kyron, and justice for him, period.
B
8.Midwest Mom says:
I agree with you 100%, That very day, Kyron was going to be be in medford for the weekend, then as you say the summer vacation. James was also living elsewhere. This would be a time for TH, KH, and kitty to connect together. Wouldn’t TH be under less stress at this time know that she was going to have less responsibility, breath, and possibly looking forward to the time with some excitement?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reconnect? I would possibly believe this scenario if I didn’t believe that TMH tried to hire someone to kill KH seven months prior. Does anyone honestly believe that a spouse can transition from trying to contract with someone to kill her husband back to happy suzy homemaker? I mean no disrespect, MidwestMom, but, sorry, I’m just not feeling it…
Up here in a holding pattern at 30,000 feet, I can almost guarantee you that LE has RS “up tight, clean out of sight” for a very good reason.
MOO.
IMO – I think that the email on April 6th shows nothing but a manipulative, scorned wife trying to place blame on someone else, it was after the MFH (December) which would indicate that she was trying justify her actions as to why she wanted to off Kaine to herself and the recipient.
Since the first presser it seemed obvious (to me) that TH had something to hide with the crossed arms as if she felt uncomfortable/threatened with the situation. Whether it was all the other devious doings that was going on in her life that were about to come to light or with the disappearance of Kyron, I have no clue which it is but it just did not seem right.
Love and hope to Kyron!
Sorry,
To be more defined with respect to my post @ 2:15p.m., becuase we have NOT seen the “sexting” between RS and TH, how do we know what is referred to as “similar.” Could it also mean that MC may have responded in a similar fashion as RS? Perhaps not so engaged? What else, beyond “sexting” could have been contained in that communication? LOOKING BACK, this could be shocking.
We do not know.
What do you make of the “he’s on me about being fat” & “he wants me to do another show”? Back to back sentences in a rant like that? Seems they go together, & I’m beginning to think KH knows SO much more.
This whole case is just so awful, I read what everyone is saying and I don’t know what to think anymore. I’m so sad! I wish this had never ever happened, it is just horrifying and a terrible, twisted, sick mess. Everyone just please take time to pray for Kyron, wherever he is now, and for those that love him.
twinkletoes says:
November 16, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Does it make sense to anyone else, why, since we are looking at virtually only one more week that Kyron would have been living with them before a 7-8 week break without what has been presented as “the reason for her marital strife”, for her to plan and execute his “vanishing” when Desiree herself confirmed Terri was in support of Kyron living with his Mother?
It certainly does not for me.
Thoughts?
B
_____________________________
Because TH didn’t plan for Kyron to be killed or kidnapped. Kyron’s disappearance was collateral damage of some other thing TH got involved in–most likely related to ridding herself of Kaine. IMO
This is what I believe, have from day one, and is the reason I feel that the ruse with the LS cost them any knowledge she had.
I understand why they did it, I do not agree it was the only option and feel it was a major tactical error.
B
So…if Terri didn’t plan his abduction and she has supposedly pointed her finger at LS why do Kaine and Desiree believe that Terri hurt Kyron?
If LS abducted and hurt or ? Kyron and Terri found out early on did she dispose of Kyron to keep her secrets safe???
Did she find Kyron while this horrific act was taking place and decided to participate at this time since she hated him so much?
Did LS contact her and say I’ve got him you wanted rid of him come and get him?
Is this what Kiara witnessed?
Mother Hen, it goes to motive. Motive, in fact, that has been discussed since June which is that Terri may have wanted to hurt Kaine in the worst possible way…through his own child, Kyron. Put her “frustrations”, as you call them, toward Kaine that may have been partially internalized, together with the MFH plot that LE revealed to Kaine, albeit coming from the LS, and one has to wonder if TMH determined that it was easier to to destroy Kaine by killing his son, rather than him. My Goodness!
BTW, I am still on the fence though about her guilt/innocence.
BLINK
You said :
I keep going back to one thing. Kyron did not leave the school with Terri Horman that day. If he had, she would be in jail for something, make no mistake about that.
They published Dede flyers and truck flyers and Terri flyers and to date, they cannot and do not have a witness or shred of evidence that Kyron left with her. They are looking for a 3rd person because there IS a third person.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, so
1st person is Terri
2nd person is Dede ??????? I am still confused – IS she the 2nd person
3rd person is ?????????
Blink — Did Kyron leave with the third person or the second person? Who is the second person?
I also have three people but I know we’re not entirely on the same page.
———————–
I keep going back to one thing. Kyron did not leave the school with Terri Horman that day. If he had, she would be in jail for something, make no mistake about that.
They published Dede flyers and truck flyers and Terri flyers and to date, they cannot and do not have a witness or shred of evidence that Kyron left with her. They are looking for a 3rd person because there IS a third person.
B
Blink,
Thanks for your input. I just want to make it clear, in case it was not, that I was not setting up any type of excuse for harming a child — not abuse of another adult, etc., etc., Just really want to be clear on that. There is no excuse or reason to harm a child, or in my ipinion, an adult.
I also agree that if someone is capable of harming a child (or adult), they are capable with or without certain prompting.
And I apologize if I appear to be from a particular camp. I feel bad for all involved. I am truly from camp truth and justice.
The deception is difficult — and sometimes brings on a “I knew it!” type of response. I will work on that.
==========================================
I posted my comment before seeing yours, Mother Hen … ABSOLUTELY, we are now seeing a fuller picture of life at the Horman’s and it is not all one sided as has been presented.
Let me say this, because I hate the way when we discuss an issue it seems that it repeatedly draws either a Team Kaine or Team Terri response. In other words, everything is always used to prove one’s cemented position in the matter.
I believe Kaine was a controlling person because two women he was married to, in my mind, have told me so, as has Kaine, imo, in his Intel email. Subjective yes, let’s just say I have a little experience in that area.
It has no bearing for me. It does not make me any less sorrowful for the pain of this grieving man. People are responsible for their own actions, and for a person to harm a child, let me assure you, it is a particular profile that has nothing to do with someone else’s actions. They would have always been capable of it.
If Terri Horman harmed Kyron Horman directly or indirectly, she was always capable of it, imo, no stimulus creates that ability in a person.
B
puzzled
I think the pic of KH and TMH with his hand on her breast
says alot if you look at her eyes
Heh?
B