The West Memphis Three HBO Paradise Lost Purgatory: Victims Parents Plea For No Oscar, Call Film Cruel Hoax

Beverly Hills, CA- Following an announcement that The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences  is considering the HBO documentary Paradise Lost III : Purgatory, as one of 15 submissions being considered for an Oscar in the documentary category branch of AMPAS, chaired by Rob Epstein-  Todd and Diana Moore took action.

The Moores are the parents of James Michael Moore, one of three eight your old victims murdered on May 3, 1993 along with Chris Byers and Stevie Branch.  Within days of an exclusive series on the murders appearing on which included the discovery of potential new evidence;  the nearly 18 year old case that resulted in 9 previous convictions of three suspects took a radical turn.

On August 19th  Jessie Misskelley, Damien Echols and Charles Jason Baldwin pled guilty to the murders of all 3 children via an Alford plea and were immediately released from jail as convicted murders on parole.

Paradise Lost III produced by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky follows it’s predecessors I and II,  released in 1996 after the initial convictions of the West Memphis 3.

Berlinger is a member of AMPAS,  and has produced several unreleased documentaries of Hollywood A- listers including Charlize Theron, Hugh Jackman, Oprah Winfrey and Cameron Diaz.

Click below to read impassioned and unedited letter sent to Chairman Epstein.

The following is the unedited letter sent to Chairman Epstein by Todd and Diana Moore:



PO Box 721

2004 Main St.

Hughes, AR  72348

November 22, 2011

Chairman Robert P. Epstein


Awards Office

8949 Wilshire Blvd

Beverly Hills CA 90211

Re:       Paradise Lost III:  Purgatory

Dear Chairman Epstein and members of the Documentary Branch of the Academy:

We are Todd Moore and Dana Moore.

Our cherished eight-year-old son, Michael, was brutally murdered on May 5, 1993 by Jessie Misskelley, Damien Echols, and Jason Baldwin.  Misskelley was tried and convicted in 1994.  Baldwin and Echols were convicted by a separate jury later that year.  All three entered Alford pleas to our son’s murder August 19, 2011.  They are now, as they have been for the past 17 years, guilty as a matter of law.  They have been guilty as a matter of fact since the moment water flooded Michael’s lungs after he was beaten, stripped, hogtied, and then discarded into a stream to drown.

Michael was the joy of our lives.  In addition to our son, his murderers also tortured and slaughtered two other children, Christopher Byers and Stevie Branch.  These three precious victims were classmates and friends, and their loss was a tragedy felt throughout the entire community.

We are horrified to learn that a documentary that glorifies Michael’s killers, Paradise Lost III: Purgatory, is among 15 documentaries being considered for an Academy Award.  Because of public pressure that exploded due to gross misrepresentations of fact in two previous documentaries, Michael’s killers were unjustly able to enter into a plea agreement, were released from prison, and now pose additional threats to society.  This third documentary further insulted the families of these three boys and may lead to further injustice.  We implore the Academy not to reward our child’s killers and the directors who have profited from one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated under the guise of a “documentary film.”

We realize that documentaries have a point of view and advocate a position to some degree or another.  As with the two before it, this film crossed the line into a cruel hoax that had real-life consequences larger than even those of us who still mourn our horrific losses.  It is not art.  This film is cynical and exploitative deception that compounds our pain needlessly and rewards those who inflicted it.  It and the two films that preceded it are simply tasteless tabloid entertainment presented as social commentary.

We are private individuals.  The directors, Bruce Sinofsky and Joe Berlinger, are aware of this because we refused to participate in their last two films.  We appeared solely in the first film because the directors lied and told us their purpose would be to “protect children.”  You can imagine our shock and disgust when the first film opened with gruesome and gratuitous images of the crime scene and remained exploitative and salacious until the credits rolled.  It did nothing to promote child welfare.  It did everything to support child killers and to benefit monetarily from a ghastly crime.

We were hardly the only people Sinofsky and Berlinger misled or manipulated.

Consider what happened to John Mark Byers. He was Christopher Byers’ adoptive father. Confrontations between Mr. Byers and Echols’ supporters at hearings were staged.  Of course, Berlinger and Sinofsky were there to film these episodes.  Berlinger and Sinofsky would transport Mr. Byers to the hearings and wire him for sound beforehand.  Furthermore, Berlinger and Sinofsky maneuvered Mr. Byers and Echols’ supporters in order to film the anticipated confrontations.  Later, after the cameras were packed away, Mr. Byers acted like a different person.  Instead of being belligerent, he was affable. When asked about his change in demeanor, Mr. Byers stated that he was supposed to act that way when the cameras were present.  Mr. Byers was quoted as saying he received $500 per hour for “exclusive interviews.”

These contrived “confrontations” and other distortions caused many viewers to believe Mark was the “real killer.”  It had a terrible impact on his life.  We brought this to the attention of HBO. Our complaint was ignored because these falsehoods proved lucrative.

The complete list of distortions would be a long one. The above example is illustrative of the manipulation and distortions that are prevalent throughout the entire Paradise Lost franchise. The films are bereft of ethics, principles, or factual accuracy and basis.

Publicity from the first two films did generate millions of dollars in donations.  Much of that money went toward the defense’s investigation of the case.  Not a single piece of exculpatory evidence was produced.  In other words, between $10,000,000 and $20,000,000 has been collected, although no one knows the exact amount collected or how it was spent.  In eighteen years, nothing was found to clear the names of the actual killers.  Late last year, the windfall that went toward the legal defense resulted in the granting of an evidentiary hearing which was set to be held a few weeks from now.  Instead, the murderers opted to initiate a plea negotiation with the State.  As a result, they remain convicted of the deaths of three children.

We have to note that this situation is similar to the one that confronted the Academy when Capturing the Friedmans was nominated for Best Documentary Film of 2003.  Two of the Friedmans’ sexual abuse victims presented another Open Letter to the Academy.  Capturing the Friedmans had much more artistic merit and integrity than Paradise Lost III: Purgatory, yet it did not receive the award. The Academy made the right decision then, and we pray it does so this time as well.


Todd Moore                                                                            Diana Moore

cc:        (via eMail)

Commercial Appeal

Jonesboro Sun

LA Times


Hollywood Reporter

People Magazine

Associated Press

United Press International


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  1. Mom3.0 says:

    part 2

    Hello again ragdoll, its me Mom3 thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions – here are mine, please know that even though I am offering a different perspective or an opposing opinion this does not mean I do not value yours

    Please know that even though I at times disagree with you strongly I still value your thoughts and opinions.

    Ragdoll you wrote:

    “You asked me what Hugely had to do with my opinion?”

    Not exactly ragdoll- I asked what Hugelys case had to do with this case specifically.

    You wrote in part:

    “I was simply demonstrating that how one dresses does not define them as a killer. I’m not letting Hugely off, nor the WM3 for their ‘style’.”

    Thanks for clarifying as you seemed to at first make the point that hugely as well as these 3 boys were “text book examples of potential offenders- …I apologize for misunderstanding that point- as for the point you made IRT looks or style or clothing…I agree and agreed in my last post as well, as shown by my Tesla clip-

    You went on to write:
    “How the WM3 dress doesn’t make them killers either. Killing 3 wee cubs makes them killers.”

    Agreed except that despite your opinions which you are entitled to, and could be the truth or not… you nor anyone else can say with 100 % certainty that these 3 killed Stevie Mike and Chris-
    sadly Ragdoll that is why I am on the fence STILL- this was a circumstantial case PLAGUED with MANY mistakes- and I have been unable to find one piece of evidence that is not marred- contaminated by mishandling- or that can be directly tied to these 3 men to the exclusion of all others- and I have not come across one witness that stands up to scrutiny- who I can definitely say was telling the complete truth- and that truth was not hurt by biases or possible misinterpretations or flat out lies and rumors.

    You wrote:

    Also, did I ever profess to be a perfect mother? I ‘think’ you insinuated as much, but I hope I’m wrong with that assessment.

    Ragdoll, you spoke as a mom, not allowing your own son to befriend these “dudes” I simply responded with my heart felt opinion that I think you are without a doubt a great mom… …Im sorry if you took offense to that…I NEVER said nor “insinuated” that you were a perfect mom…no one is a perfect mom, RG, not me, and not Gail G. Jasons mom..not Blink even though I am sure we all try our best.

    You went on to write:

    I stated what an involved mother WOULD do (and I’m sure you would be one of these mothers) if they learned their child/ren were hanging with questionable characters…ones you’ve never met or spoke to.

    Again, If I misinterpreted your thoughts I m sorry- – but Ragdoll what I or you would do in this situation as no bearing as this was NOT the situation irt Damien and Jasons friendship as Jason Baldwin and Damien Echols had been friends for quite a long time- first meeting in Study Hall which both shared…Oh which reminds me, it seems you can add another attempt at stealing to DE’s history as they first became friends over shared taste in music being that DE tried to cop Jasons tapes….

    Jasons mom was aware of Damien Raddoll, she just did not seem to share your opinion of him

    You wrote:

    If you heard rumours of satanic rituals in your community, would you honestly dismiss them so easily…especially when that community is populated with a lot of children (your children!) and teens.

    Ragdoll, these rumors clearly did not contain any facts and it is my opinion with the use of common sense EACH of these rumors could EASILY have been dispelled-

    which I have already done here numerous times-
    But for instance to even entertain the notion that dogs were being boiled in crisco and legs were being eaten by bands of teens to get into the “club” and orgies were taking place left and right…and Lucy lucifer the damien doppelganger was pulling the strings….and DE wore dog intestines he pulled from the ass of a dead great dane around his neck—- yeah I would dismiss them outright – WHY because they are clearly nonsense- No teen is having orgies in the woods certainly not after painting themselves entirely in black paint… and eating dogs… they are lucky if they can get to third base and are such picky eaters they often turn down even the best of meals……and there wasnt a rash of teen pregnancies or STDs or dogs and cats missing…and NO ONE ever FOUND lucy…or any other member of the “cult” DESPITE Jerry Driver and Steve Jones going out every weekend almost nightly, they NEVER stumbled upon these meetins nor did they ever find anything that truthfully and honestly with a doubt backed any of this nonsense up. PERIOD.

    You wrote:
    That’s a chance I wouldn’t take. Sure as heck I’d be on the phone to the police if I got wind of such rumours. I’d be talking to neighbours, inquiring if they’ve heard anything.

    Ragdoll although I agree every parent should be vigilante in watching over their children and teens and I agree we should try to keep tabs on them at all times and if we do our best in this regard then there wouldnt be any room to even entertain the thought of these satanic cults… still
    there was never any evidence of these cults despite Driver and Jones desperately trying to find them OFTEN -

    and sadly Ragdoll it is the rumor mill of fear which you are talking about calling neighbors and friends etc that led to the Satanic Panic-of fanned fears that spurred the rumors that led to the MISTAKEN belief that these horrible triple child murders were the direct result and motive for the killings of Stevie Mike and Chris.
    So please excuse me Ragdoll if I vehemently disagree with your stance on perpetuating the neighborhood calling tree of rumors and fears…
    it is clearly NOT being a responsible parent nor a supermom to join in on this very detrimental course of action- as I think this is one of the most horrendous things the parents had to endure second only to the murder of their children – it was having to think their little boys were offered up to Satan- and taken for power and their souls were never to be free- my God no never will I even try to empathize with this course of action ragdoll never!

    You went on to write:

    Additionally, the fact that JB’s mother had mental health issues could have complicated matters in her abilities to parent.

    I already agreed to this Rafgdoll where I disagree is that her suffering from mental illness equates to her being unfit.

    She was treated ragdoll and she was released they can only do that when they feel the person is not a danger to themselves or others- and it seems with deductive reasoning I can surmise that she was on meds and she did respond favorable to treatment as she seemed to withstand the hardships in later years- but I am not her doctor nor are you my friend

    You went on to write:

    Was she withdrawn? Reclusive? IDK

    Sleeping a lot? IDK just odd hours-She worked for a trucking company leaving for work at 3:30 and coming home at 11:00 pm

    Unable to prepare meals? Ragdoll Gail prepared all the meals before she slept or went to work Jason and dink simply warmed them up and served them
    Please I am NOT even going to attempt to answer that

    Self medicating? Would seem any meds she was on likely would interact with drinking or drugs but who knows

    Was she employable?

    Yes ragdoll although she lost her job in the months of the trials etc- Sad isnt it?

    “How can she know her son if she doesn’t know his friends or where he was ”

    She did know his friends and she did know where he was at least that night as i clearly showed and Ragdoll what parent knows in 1994 without the aid of GPS where their child is every moment? Are they all the murderers?

    “(graffitti, stealing….are not ‘boys will be boys’ issues, btw.”

    Ragdoll I am not going to debate this issue any further with you as my life experiences are clearly different then yours and I altready shared my thoughts.

    “They admitted they, at times (understatement), were up to no good. They’re signs of disrespect, for starters.”

    Ragdoll most teens show signs of disrespect and yes they did OPENLY admit this to EVERYONE they NEVER hid it-

    How does this mean they are the killers?

    Ragdoll I dont think anyone is giving any of these parents a pass on anything- nogt yjr 3-but these behaviors you are equating to murderers were shared by MANY in that town in that community in America- killers does it not make- if it did then the victims themselves would have grown to be killers themselves.

    You wrote:

    “I would LOVE for witnesses to come forward and reveal what they know about her during this evil time in WM”

    Ragdoll wow shame on you. No one KNOWS anyone and this information would clearly be gossip and innuendo and the most hurtful kind and I am appalled that you would encourage it, as despite your opinions Jasons mom is a victim in all this too- even if her son is the killer she and his brothers are victims and to want to hurt them or to get some sort of satisfaction in hearing the “dirt” is WRONG

    You wrote:

    “This was a community ridden with drugs, crime, domestic abuse, transients….and inexperienced LE. Is it possible there were drugs in the house? Weapons, unregistered or otherwise?

    YES RD IT WAS which IS MY POINT all of this that you claim points to the 3 being killers is BOGUS as EVIDENCE as this evidence clearly fit MOST PEOPLE certainly Most teens- not just these 3 young men.

    You wrote:

    “It always starts as a root….and grows like a weed. Weeds, as we know, don’t need tending to as they grow with vengence and smother anything good that’s in its path of destruction.”

    Yep Ragdoll youre right and you know what else is true about weeds? Some are good and are edible and some are beautiful but most dont know it or refuse to see it- take dandelions or Caletas —but their seen as weeds so lets roundem up…. and you know what else is true IRT weeds? There are many of them and to single out only three and think youve got the right culprit is asinine especially when you disregard or never collect or followup on any of the other weeds that were in around and about…and you know what else some times happens even when youre doing your best to tend the garden? You sometimes mistakenly pull up flowers- that clearly were never the culprits but once you do- its hard to go back and fix it- especially if you refuse to do so….

    You wrote:

    …and I cannot understand how you can confidently challenge me that these boys were progressing socially or academically…..

    Perhaps it is becuase we do not agree -

    “Wasn’t JB just at his local Wally World a short time after the murders, (before being questioned by LE???)”

    Are you refering to Walmart the night of the murders? Yes he was.

    “In fact, I ‘think’ that’s why he was brought in, initially. STEALING?????? WTF? ”

    Link please as I am not sure what you are referring to….

    “DE has NOT been getting the help he needed in terms of therapy and meds (which, when hospitalized, responded positively to.) No meaningful parental guidance to give him direction or accountability. No structure.”

    This is your opinion and even if true does not point to him being the murderer it points to him having a dysfunctional family and to being suicidal ot depressed not homicical…

    “Mud covered on the night of the murders. Yeah, that doesn’t look good but what do I know?”

    Ragdoll This was according to Narlene Hollingsworth whose statements and testimony I painstakenly went through and clearly illustrated that Narlene Hollingsworth is a liar so if you want to base your opinions on she and her clans statements go ahead but I will not-

    “Homicidal and suicidal thoughts determined his eligibility to receive SS disability cheques. THAT’S PROGRESSION?????”

    Seeking SSI is progression Ragdoll, which never paid out probably because his lying about homicidal thoughts put a snafu into the works as if found to be falsifying claims a person is dropped or never recieves or sometimes serves jail…. OOPs theres another point for his criminal history….

    What about their schooling?

    DE had his GED he wasnt a dropout without goals many people opt for the GED-

    JB was average to better than average depending on the coarse He was seen as a good student.

    JM sadly did dropout and never advanced any further- but this does not mean he was bad as many people suffering from developmental disabilities do the same especially when in a traditional classroom setting.

    You wrote;

    “these were not stand up boys. DUH. (does it make them killers…..why not?)”

    Depends on who is giving their opinion- DUH infinity LOL does it make them the killers? not without actual evidence it doesnt-

    Thanks for sharing your opinions Ragdoll and thank you for letting me share mine

    Thanks for making me think and I hope our differing opinions will help others to weigh their own thoughts-

    Again I am not claiming my opinions are right and yours are wrong clearly just different—



  2. GraceintheHills says:

    GraceintheHills says:
    March 13, 2012 at 4:43 pm
    Blink says, Respectfully Grace, if your friend had harmed or killed anyone with that pipe bomb, he would have gone to jail and likely had a very different outcome. If a kid did that today, he would be charged by the ATF in Federal court. If we have not advanced in imparting the understanding to our youth that they CAN be making a life-altering decision based on “shenanigans” I have no business in this work.
    Respectfully, I am quite aware of that, Blink. In a perfect world ALL children would be taught that there are consequences for their actions. We lived in a rural area, and the mailbox was at the end of a very long driveway with no living soul around. Many kids at the time were pulling stunts like this. My friend was not proud of what he had done, and later confessed, apologized, and rebuilt his neighbor’s mailbox. He was a good kid that went astray but got his life together.

    My point was that good kids and troubled kids can make really stupid mistakes in their teens, and one can never reliably predict from these actions who will go on to commit murder, period. Don’t take my word for it. Ask any other professional who does violence risk assessments.

    Blink says, The fact is there are more precursors in the behavior of the three men in this case then we see in the profiles of folks committing less violent crimes, that is just the reality.

    @Blink, WM was filled with teens with antecedent behaviors similar to what these boys exhibited, some much worse, in fact. As you have written before, if one is convinced they are the perpetrators, one’s view of the behaviors is that thse kids were on a fast track to mayhem. I just don’t agree – perhaps because I am not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt these three committed the crimes. I am sure it would be so much easier if I were.
    Blink says, I am just not understanding the position that through some miraculous intervention in the mess of the home lives they had- they would have grown up to be Mr. Rogers et al . So why should CPS ever intervene if kids should just be allowed to sew their oats while physically maming people ( Echols) knocking little girls off of bikes with a rock to the head (Misskelley) or stealing booze and breaking up somebody’s home (Baldwin)?

    @Blink, it is late here, and I am not following your logic here. Whose position. Are you saying it is not worth intervening in children’s lives and trying to help them? DE, in particular, was clearly not a boy scout, but, imo, yes, he could have benefited from a mentor program designed to identify at-risk kids and pair them with reliable and vetted role models. I have seen kids transformed by these role models. Or, are you saying they were so bad they were beyond redemption? If so, I respectfully disagree. I would have to resign from my position if I believed so.

    Blink says, As far as Ms. Grinnell is concerned, I stand by my opinion no child should ever be put in a position to find their parent covered in their own blood after multiple commitments. Do I have compassion for her? Absolutely. I have to say though, wrong or right, my advocacy is always going to lean to the protection of a child first, till a parents recovery can be proven it will not harm the child.

    @Blink, the harsh reality is that children are going to continue to find their parents intoxicated or hurt after a suicide attempt, especially when the families are poor and have very limited access to the appropriate health care services. I see or hear of it several times a week, and it IS tragic. All of us need to do more.

    I am not turning a blind eye to JB finding his mother after a suicide attempt, nor am I minimizing the affect it may have had on him. But, we don’t know the long term effect it may have had on him because we do not live in his head, nor has he talked in any great detail about it. But, based on how he has comported himself after release, he seems to have appropriately processed it, moved on, and made improvements in his life. Have you listened to him talk? He seems like the most grounded and compassionate of the three. *If* he didn’t kill these boys, he has pulled his life together under extremely stressful circumstances. He earned 20+ hours of college credits while incarcerated, and doesn’t seem to harbor resentment regarding his 18 year confinement.
    Ms. Grinnell made the choice to reveal her mental health issues through an affidavit, they are now public domain.

    @Blink, not exactly. She may have chosen to reveal in a affidavit that she suffered from mental illness, but I can think of no reason that a court would have cause to order her full mental health records be opened to the public. If you have evidence to the contrary, I would like to see the link to those hospital records.

    Regarding Ragdoll, I have read all of her posts and have a keen sense of her struggles and a soft spot in my heart for her. I agree she has standing to give her opinions, as we all do. My intent was never to insult her. I would never do that and, with all due respect, I find the mere sugggestion that I would offensive.

    I came to your blog, Blink, because I felt there was a respect for differing opinions and debate. I am a practitioner, educator and a champion of people who suffer from mental and physical illness. I can be blunt when I write; that is my style. I was merely cautioning everyone to be aware that it is all to easy to project our own experiences onto someone else’s, and totally miss the boat. Did Ragdoll? Who knows? We know very few details of Ms. Grinnell’s personal life and habits.

    In addition, regarding people feeling slighted, I always remind myself the written word can sometimes be misinterpreted in an emotional sense, unlike the spoken word. That is a risk all of us take when we post.

    I am getting the sense, especially after researching and opining about this case, that it may be time to move on to other endeavors.

    Wishing you all the best in your advocacy.

    My Dearest Grace:

    I most certainly had no intention of offending you- I struggled with the wording to get my point across wrt Ragdoll since I felt her post was too personal to post in the first place.

    You are correct the written word in such delicate and passionate matters can easily lose its sentiment and intention.

    I apologize that I would ever cause you to think I have anything but the highest regard for you, your work, your opinion or your advocacy. It may not be the first or last time, but I can assure you I will do my best to be less Jersey, lol.

    Of course it will give you good practice when we are privileged to have you in our fair state for your sons nuptials. ( As an aside, did you see Gov Christie’s tet e tete?)

    I am considering the very unattractive proposition that I may be jaded a tad from this work when it comes to the fusion of violence in teens, and how it relates to many cases I cover both personally and at 30,000 ft.

    As I write this I have a 1200 page binder of a LE-sensitive case file spread out all over my coffee table I am going through for the 4th time on a cold case I am already sorry to be working on. It is largely redacted so it is has to be reviewed word for word and only by me as a clearance issue.

    When I began this journey I swore I would never write about childrens cases. You see how that worked out.

    They affect me so deeply maybe it is time for me to consider my passion and pain emotional duel could use some professional distance. I will ruminate on that.

    The simple fact is I did “overlay” my personal experience and likely professional bias when I read what you wrote about your friend and the pipe bomb.

    The proper response really should have been to inquire what set of circumstances were going on in the home and in his development that warranted the need in the first place.

    It reminded me of a playmate I had when I was around 12. A whole group of us, boys and girls would hang out after school or briefly after supper because we said we were at the playground after practice. We really were down at the river screwing around throwing rocks in it, climbing trees, making hideouts, or whatever harmless malfeasons we could dream up.

    One of the boys began getting into trouble at school, and then started bringing cigarettes. He had an older brother who had dropped out of school by now. Shortly thereafter the “older set” who was absolutely out for trouble began hanging out there to drink, set fires, and deface the area.

    Although I did not smoke, when I returned home smelling like butts my parents read me the riot act.

    End of the secret missions, lol. I should also add that my Uncle was the chief of police in the town I grew up so he was in constant contact with my parents about such matters.

    Well one time I saw him and some of the others in school and they were planning to go, and he made some sort of crack like “O now she is too good for us” to hang out. So of course, against my parents wishes I headed down there. We were all there for about 20 minutes when his brother and some of his friends showed up with booze, weed, spraypaint, etc. He immediately began to bully me.

    “No girls allowed.. Your Mommy called and said head straight home.. don’t you have to go practice your cheers and wash your hair?”

    You get the drill. I was beyond embarrassed and humiliated.

    When his brother told him to “be nice to the little girl” she can hand us our beers and snacks, it got worse. I held my breath and my tears till I got up the bank and out of the woods but my pride was squarely back there.

    I never really spoke to him again outside of a nod in the hall, the natural evolution of kids hitting puberty and traveling in different circles set in and we hit High School.

    I had heard his brother was into drugs and had been arrested a few times, it was a small town.

    On the day before Christmas our freshman year, my Uncle flew into our house asking if his neices were all home, went into the dining room with my Mom, closed the door for a minute and left. My sister had a sleepover and he literally went to pick her up and bring her home (if memory serves my mom had a recent hysterectomy and my Dad was working- nothing like getting picked up in a cop car, lol).

    A young girl went down to the very same location with three older HS dropouts and friends of the aforementioned brother and was found beaten and raped; she drowned in 3 inches of water.

    A dead girl lay where I left my pride. She was the same age I was the last time I had been there.

    At that moment I realized something. My friend had been protecting me from these boys. He had an incling of what they were capable of. He humiliated me out of a situation for my own protection.

    I wish this story had a happy ending, it does not. He ended up getting involved in drugs, quitting school and worse. He killed an elderly woman during a robbery with an iron.

    Why am I telling this macabre tale? To prove your point has resonated with me, I hope.

    At one time, he was a kid in a troubled household with a good moral compass. Intervention may have changed things. I have not thought about him in years before today.

    Sans the part about my belief in the guilt of the WM3, I think we are actually agreeing on the need for interventive measures and mentoring for at risk persons even if the lack of my hands-on experience in the area vs. yours provides for a more “hard line” approach. I was addressing my thoughts based on this case and it’s outcome and your comment, and many of Mom 3.0′s has reminded me that I need to consider that if my work is designed to inspire advocacy and educate folks in a similar position to seek help, I must do a better job separating that out for other readers. Wrt to Ms. Grinnell I vehemently agree that outside of her own statements and supporting assessments that were submitted to the court, there would not be any grounds or need to open her medical records.

    We are all works in progress, I am most certainly no exception.

    Again my apologies to you, Mom 3.O, Ragdoll and to anyone else reading here that has felt me dismissive or offensive in tone- it was not my intention.

    Lastly there are no break-ups in advocacy, lol, you are stuck with those of us who need that beacon every now and again.

    My quote gift for you:

    Augustine does not disagree with this when he teaches that it is a faculty of the reason and the will to choose good with the assistance of grace; evil, when grace is absent.
    John Calvin

    Heart u


  3. GraceintheHills says:

    Lastly, Ragdoll, stay the course. You are a true advocate and are very much appreciated.


  4. GraceintheHills says:

    You, too, Mom3.0. What a phenomenal advocate you are. I admire your tenacity in your search for the truth. Well, it’s way past bedtime and I am battling Daylight Saving time fatigue.
    All my best,

  5. Mom3.0 says:

    To Graceinthehills-

    Dear Grace,

    I am very disheartened to read of your decision to stop posting and to move on. I am devastated in fact-
    I respect your decision….
    I hope you will not take offense to my trying to get you to reconsider your decision.

    First, Let me say I feel somewhat at fault as I know you were trying to be a mediator for ragdoll and I- and I thank you.
    I too came here to BOC because I found it to be a welcoming Blog- and one in which Blink worked hard to ensure each poster felt safe in sharing their opinions and one in which she promoted respectful debate without personal attacks-

    In Following this case here at BOC you and I have encountered our share of flack for giving our differing opinions although we have tried so very hard to remain respectful and even quite conciliatory in sharing our opinions and thoughts.

    Both of us being sure never to state our opinions as fact- or to claim that we know these 3 are innocent etc…

    Grace without your posting I would have most likely have decided to just give up and walk away from BOC too- as without you I would have many times over felt belittled for sharing my thoughts..

    I carried on because of your intervention–and you helped me to again realize it should never devolve into making it about the poster personally- but about truth justice and the victims.

    I will try to stick around as long as I feel I can add something to the conversation for Stevie mike and Chris- will you?

    Grace it is you and your advocacy and your tactful intelligent posts filled with humor and wit and compassion and thoughtful opinions which time and time again made it better and even when in disagreement with one another…

    I always learned from you and your expertize and experiences

    You made me feel better about it all Grace, thank you

    Please reconsider as BOC and this thread will loss so much without your posting. Please remember that Blink beseeched you to post your thoughts and opinions and you did so, and I am sure she is thankful even if perhaps it surprised her that you hold a differing opinion or that you have remained a fence sitter.

    I understand as I know you do too, that this case is one in which everyone seems to hold very strong opinions and one in which any meaningful debate can often turn into name-calling or worse.

    And we can so easily get hurt feelings and feel like we are not valued, please know you are Grace-
    No matter your decision Grace know you have made a difference here on BOC and on this case.

    Thank you for everything grace-


    Mom 3.0, although you did not mention it, I hope you saw my post to Grace and to you.
    heart u both immensely, you have both made an extremely difficult case worthy of further exploration with your contributions and that was all I ever wanted when presenting a new case for consideration.


  6. gary says:

    I would like add my opinion about this case.
    I found nothing pointing to these three guys at all, but came up with four people that did, one female, two white guys and one black guy.
    to me this was a total set up to have these three guys to take the blame, the motive was revenge and one was obsessed with little Chris Byers, in fact Chris was the only target, little Michael and Steve were at the wrong place at the wrong time. I know you have heard somebody say (If you mess with my kid, I will cut your balls off)
    and they did..

  7. GraceintheHills says:

    Dear Blink, Mom3.0, Ragdoll, Blinksters,

    I should not have posted last night, and I sincerely apologize to everyone for sounding so ridiculously snippy.

    Ten days ago, I lost my best friend of 20 years to a sudden brain bleed, and I have been trying to keep a stiff upper lip, especially for her young granddaughter and husband. I am so angry that she is gone, and I am so very, very sorry I let some of that anger seep into my post.

    I consider this the best crime/victims’ advocacy blog on the internet. All of you — each ONE of you — have such wonderful talents, each contributor is so strong in her or his own way – each one is so valuable and integral to the whole.

    And Blink, well, it goes without saying that your heart is in exactly the right place….every single time. Mea culpa, my friend. You are a dear, dear person, and are one of the strongest voices for victims I have ever come across. Heart you very much.

    This is a case that has divided so many people in so many places. But, I agree with what has been said many times here by so many posters and you, Blink: it is all about supporting and advocating for the victims regardless of which side of the fence one is on. This case for all of us is about three little boys who were brutally ripped away from their parents and community. It will always be about them.

    I need to collect my thoughts, and just…grieve. I look forward to reading each of your posts, and I hope I can contribute again when I feel less overwhelmed by sadness.

    With deep respect and admiration,

    Grace, I have overly sized shoulders for my frame I am told. I so wish I could comfort you as you so deserve- but I know exactly where you are, as I have been, so I know better.

    So for when you need it, I will share something I was taught by a very wise lady who also happens to be in a profession similar to your own. The following is my paraphrasing from memory.

    She said their is no way to cheat grief. While it is very true it is a process and depending on your therapist they can walk you through the 5 or 7 steps in their sleep- all very textbook.

    I have found that 100% of the time when I ask a person with a recent profound loss what they would do to make themselves better immediately if the could- the answer was always the same.

    Because we know that is not possible, it dawned on me one day that it is ok, and frankly, sometimes preferred depending on the individual to take some shortcuts.

    She told me to write down the 5 stages leaving at least 4 emppty lines underneath each one.

    Then I am to write next to them, and not in chronological order but in order of the strength of the memory, a sentence or two of a happy memory between the two of us that made us laugh either together or at each other lovingly, which concerned that “phase” description.

    I will give one example of mine:

    1. Bargaining- The time we begged your brother to front us the money to fix the garage window that got broken when my parents were away and I had that party- because I forgot I closed the garage door when I flung that mini cooler at it. That asshole charged us like an extra $50. Sorry for calling your brother an asshole, but you remember when we put those clam shells under his seats at the shore to get him back?

    I hope my sincerity to ease your pain today translates well.

    I do know one thing, for 20 years your friend was lucky to have you, and I am sure it was mutual.


  8. Ragdoll says:

    Well, you know, y’all….I admit I was feeling extremely frustrated. I, too, owe Mom, Grace and Blink apologies. I always thought that most posters offer opinions based on personal experiences b/c it enriches the information they provided and lends some credibility. As pointed out, I’m dead wrong about that.

    Grace, I simply adore you and your genuine compassion. I have never felt slighted by you, nor by Mom, contrary to what I posted. I think Mom and I need to agree that we strongly disagree. My respect for her has not waivered an inch. I just don’t like to be treated like I’m clueless, which is WHY I bring in my personal experiences….AND WHY I use them to make a valid point. I was hoping to shed light in the area of mental illness, not piss anyone off by going against protocol.

    I do get the message loud and clear that my posts are too personal and inappropriate for BOC. Unfortunately, that is who I am. I talk this way in my ‘offline’ life with people I trust. I am an open book….so asking me to change the way I ‘opine’ is quite literally, asking a zebra to change it’s stripes.

    I’ll refrain from posting @ BOC as that’s the only resolution I can come up with. I’m not slithering away with my tail tucked between my legs. That’s not my style. My head is held high because I know my heart and it’s a tender, compassionate one. So no hard feelings OR drama. Just the utmost respect for y’all. The world needs you <3

    Sweet dreams Blinkland XO!

    Ragdoll- this is my fault. I know now I should have just posted your post, but I was over-protective of you and Ragdoll Jr. I do not always make the right decision, but it is absolutely always with the best intent. I am truly sorry if I hurt your feelings, please do not allow it to stifle what a compassionate and brilliant advocate you are.


  9. Ragdoll says:

    PS….and @ Grace

    I am so sorry about your dear friend. I wish I could offer you a big old bear hug and comfort you during this difficult time. You have my love and prayers, sweet friendy XO XO XO.

  10. Ragdoll says:

    Dear Miss Blink.

    No. Nonononono. NNNNNnno. (me putting my foot down….I hate that I made you feel badly).

    The most important value on this site, next to advocacy and respect, is the honesty maintained between you and your posters! First….how cute is the name Ragdoll Jr.? Bless your heart for putting THAT smile on my face!

    This is your blog, darlin. I need to respect that AND, I do! I crossed a line, not once, but many times. Gently, on many occasions, you’ve mentioned the need to protect my heart. I’ve never forgotten that when you first started on this piece. Again, God bless you for thinking of Jr. and me.

    My feelings are not in the least bit hurt. Please believe me when I say, I see the bigger picture. I can put my ego in check for BOC and the justice you’re fighting for. This is not about me and contrary to how my posts come across, I know that, I get that …AND AND AND… I am ok with that! It’s hard to be subjective when I read my posts (whilst editting pre submit) but I can tell you, they are meant to be helpful, not selfish. I think my posts can be easily misinterpreted, which flares the confusion.

    So my dear friendLY, please be reassured this is not about you or anyone else who posts on here. I can’t begin to describe how much y’all have affected my life for the better!!!!!! Grace and Mom…..extra love and hugs!!!!!

    No hard feelings. I promise to lurk though. And you know me….if someone takes a dig, I may pop up out of the blue. I know you can take care of yourself…but sometimes….. ;)

    Nuffin but wubb, venti style!!!! XO XO XO XO

    It will be my great pleasure my friendLY to see you when it calls you.

    heart u


  11. Ragdoll says:

    PS to Mom….

    It’s funny how you can read a comment in one frame of mind and come away with a certain feeling or attitude.

    I re-read your post and it came across in a tactful, Mom3.0 classic style way. I am so sorry I saddened you. I hate that I did that to you. I’m the first to say….don’t speak in anger. Well, I did and look what it’s done.

    Don’t a change a thing!!! PLEASE! Regardless of where you stand, you’re needed here.

    With utmost respect and love for you, dear heart <3

  12. Mom3.0 says:

    Gary, hello
    I wanted to respond to your post as it seems to be getting lost.
    It takes courage to post your opinions, especially when youre jumping into an ongoing conversation.

    Although I agree not much seems ro point to these 3 especially not to the exclusion of any others, I am not so confident to think I have figiured out the whys and the whos etc.

    Many alternate theories have been posted here and elsewhere. Some are far-fetched and others seem plausible

    I can not say that I agree with your thoughts as to one child, in this case, Chris, being the target, you may be right. As to your theory of the perps, I am kindof leery of asking but
    I was wondering if you are a local or if you just happened across this group of potential perpetrators from reading Callahans?



  13. GraceintheHills says:

    Ragdoll, I adore you, too, and have since I first saw your posts. We all sometimes, by the nature of our work or research, visit very dark places when we post about these crimes, but many of your posts shone light and infused hope into all of us. You help us get through the horror of it all. The world needs YOU, too, my friend. Heart you so very much.

    Blink, thank you for the lovely and helpful post. I am going to keep coming back to it for the next few weeks. You are so correct to say there are no short cuts through grief, but I sure was looking for some. The pain is overwhelming.

    I keep thinking of how the moms and families of these boys felt when they heard the news and in those terrible, dark days afterward. I cannot begin to fathom what if must feel like to lose a child. God bless and keep them.

  14. GraceintheHills says:

    Ragdoll, my mind is not computing right. I just saw the hugs you offered. Hugs right back at you!

    Mom3.0, what can I say, but thank you from the bottom of my heart.
    Your compassion is palpable, and means so much to me. Heart you always.

    I know it’s off topic but, if I could ask if all of you would keep my friend’s dear husband, Joe, in your prayers. He is so lost. May God bless and keep all of those who are suffering losses of their loved ones, including the families of our “wee cubs.” (to borrow Ragdoll’s precious phrase).

  15. Mom3.0 says:


    I have always considered myself lucky to have you on my side and i have always considered you to be in mycorner nomatter if we are giving opposing views or opinions or not.

    Ragdoll, you are fine just the way you are, and i am grateful for every post you have ever made- and I am glad that Blink chose to withhold your post because Ragdoll you dont need to justify to anyone why you have the opinions you do- I have always valued each of them- and i am one of those weird people who like to debate.

    I consider you a friend Ragdoll and I often have meaningful debates with friends Ragdoll-

    I never took our disagreements as anything but a respectful sharing of opinions and ideas meant to further our advocacy for truth justice and in this case, little Mike Stevie and Chris.

    If we were in agreement on everything dear Ragdoll how would we challenge one another or grow or seek the truth?

    Please know Ragdoll that I also have shared my personal experiences and most of my opinions come from my pwn personal experiences as well- Each of us brings so much to the cause and to the conversation, as we have all lived and lost and learned- and I am truly sorry if something I wrote made you feel likeI was asking you not to be you or that I was trying to silence or devalue your contributions in any way.

    I hope you are not leaving BOC- you have time and time again proven yourself to be a very valuable contributor and you have time and time again proven your self to be my BOC friend.

    I understand if you need to take a breather, this case is hell Ragdoll- I almost wish I never heard of it….

    I cant imagine the nightmare it has been for the families…

    I know you never meant to hurt me Ragdoll nor I you. – I hope you will rejoin the conversation and I hope you will continue to challenge me by offering an opposing opinion- let us both continue to do our best for truth justice and those “wee cubs”

    Stay RD
    Peace My friend- and my sincere thanks for always valuing my research

  16. Mom3.0 says:

    Blink, sigh…this case is so polarizing isnt it?

    I mean if it has made you, I, ragdoll and grace question whether or not we are right to continue on in our advocacy…that says alot…if we as 4 friends can get into almost arguments over our thoughts and opinions it is not so hard to see how others are reduced to name-calling and all the rest.

    To answer your question dear blink, yes I read your response to Grace and I- as well as your responses to Ragdoll thank you for your appreciation and your kind words.

    Blink, this is the hardest case I have ever encountered…I do not envy you in your work and i may not always agree with everything but I appreciate it all just the same.

    I truly think any jury who would have had the duty of deciding it, would have had the hardest of jobs-

    With much respect and lots of Appreciation

  17. Mom3.0 says:

    Grace, I am very sorry to read of the loss of your long time friend.
    you will be in my thoughts.

    I understand your need to step away and to just grieve…
    Blink was right grace, never forget the wonderful times you both shared, as I have no doubt there were many in those 20 years of friendship.

    When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight. ~Kahlil Gibran

    I will miss you Grace, please offer my prayers & condolences to your friends family-

    I hope to see you return soon.

    Say goodnight gracie… but not good bye okay?

    Peace and strength to you my friend,


    goodnight gracie :)

    I could not resist, have not heard that in a while, she will love it.

  18. Ragdoll says:

    My dearest Mom3.0

    Thank you, THANK YOU for your friendship and kindness. Your post imprinted on my heart. I know cause I’m blubbering like a fool, in the day, in front of my puter.

    I’m not going anywhere my friend. I’m cheering y’all like I always do. I will cut back on my input but not my reading, lurking (mmmwahahahhahaaaa) and the odd….KEEP GOING FRIENDIES!!!!! I told Blink I’ll be around as the BOC pit bull. I know y’all can take care of yourselves, but sometimes I just need to stand up for my friends and remind the odd ‘bully’ this isn’t a sand box, if you know what I mean.

    Mom, I’m going to leave the investigative posting to gifted ones. BOC is a blog, but it is also about great minds coming together to hash out details, stand up for our victims and asking the right questions. You, Grace, ATG, the list is endless….are the kind of minds and hearts this site needs. It’s about RESULTS, not blathering….which, yes, I am very gifted at ;)

    So no good byes. I’ll pop in now and then, I promise!

    What can I say? I LOVE y’all to the moon and back. I could never walk away from a great cause or great advocates. I’m a better person for just knowing my sweet Blinkster friendies (If I left out a name, please don’t take it personally. You are in my heart!)

    On a positive note and in the spirit of St. Patrick’s day, I quote this Irish saying. He was probably a sweet leprechaun…..

    May the blessings of each day be the blessings you need most.

    PS…Big Alberta bear hugs to you Mom3.0. You are one of my besties on here. I know I’ve said it before but when I grow up I wanna be just you.

  19. Ragdoll says:

    Honestly….I know BOC will NOT miss my fabulous editting skills…

    I know cause I’m blubbering like a fool, in the day, in front of my puter…SHOULD READ….

    …., in the dark, in front of my puter.

  20. Ragdoll says:

    @ Grace

    Please know prayers have been said, dear dear friend of mine <3

    I needed you to know, your request was heard XO

  21. Mom3.0 says:

    Ragdoll great to hear that you will be popping in when you feel so compelled. Yay! Ps if lack of editing skills was a reason to remove oneself from the blog- I would be the first to go, my friend…

    Now back to why we are all here-
    Trying to help get to the truth for Chris Mike and Stevie.

    Blink in your response to Grace you wrote in Part:

    “So why should CPS ever intervene if kids should just be allowed to sew their oats while physically maming people ( Echols) knocking little girls off of bikes with a rock to the head (Misskelley) or stealing booze and breaking up somebody’s home (Baldwin)?”

    -I immediately understood which incidents you were describing for DE- this would be the school hallway fight in which SE scratched the dface of his rival- which has been said he was trying to scratch the eyes out of his skull- Right

    Jm’s incident would be where a little girl hit Jesse with a rock and he threw one at her hitting her and laughing right?

    Both these incidents I have gave my thoughts on, but
    Then you wrote of Jason– describing an incident of stealing booze and breaking up somebody’s home (Baldwin)

    Blink, I think I may be unaware of this incident- could you please elaborate? TIA

  22. GraceintheHills says:

    17. Mom3.0 says:
    March 15, 2012 at 1:48 am
    Grace, I am very sorry to read of the loss of your long time friend.
    you will be in my thoughts.

    I understand your need to step away and to just grieve…
    Blink was right grace, never forget the wonderful times you both shared, as I have no doubt there were many in those 20 years of friendship.

    When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight. ~Kahlil Gibran
    @Mom3.0, thank you so much for your lovely post and the beautiful Gibran quote. It is one of my favorites to share when someone is grieving. I am still reading here, it helps take my mind off things. Heart you so much!

    Mom3.0 says, I will miss you Grace, please offer my prayers & condolences to your friends family-

    I hope to see you return soon.

    Say goodnight gracie… but not good bye okay?

    Peace and strength to you my friend,

    Mom3.0, again, thank you for your thoughts and prayers. We are staying strong just like she would want.

    And, no, it is definitely not goodbye. Hope to be back soon.

    Blink says,
    goodnight gracie

    I could not resist, have not heard that in a while, she will love it.

    Blink, I saw this and laughed for the first time in days. Boy, did I need that! Thank you, my dear friend. Seriously heart you for shining some light.

    Yay! :)

  23. GraceintheHills says:

    Ragdoll says:
    March 16, 2012 at 1:52 am
    @ Grace

    Please know prayers have been said, dear dear friend of mine <3

    Still not sleeping. Just wanted to say heart you so much, Ragdoll, and thank you. The wee cubs are on my mind tonight….I know my friend is up there holding them in her arms.

  24. Rose says:

    @all. I have not read all the convos, just some taste. Ragdoll, you’re invaluable & all of us bring our personal experiences here; much of seeming analysis is projection (by that, so far, I mean we posters, not Blink, who imo strives to be professionally analytic and tolerant of posters’ foibles ehen I’m well past scroll & roll.

    Off one bit of Blink’s referring to Grace but not finding the source comment, CPS is absolutely not set up for remedial intervention psychologically with teens or children. Yeah maybe if it’s a Court involved case with parents (not the norm) you can get psychologicals on parents if there’s been an egregious bodily crime (ie murder attempt or severe beating) or the parent has been hospitalized floridly psychotic. Or get a psychological on a child that informs custody if same is true (attempt criminal act) by the child. But that does not translate to Court- ordered and paid treatment in the CPS system. And I believe that is true of juvenile system as well. A psychological can be gotten/used by defense. Treatment can be part of a plea bargain, but actually following through with treatment (consequences if erratic) and a competent provider differs. It is rare psych inpatient for a long enough term plus outpatient would be ordered in a plea because government doesnt want to pay the tab. The only residential treatment cases I had of teens were ones the govt fought & stonewalled for $ reasons.

  25. Rose says:

    the CS Lewis book, A Grief Observed, Grace.

  26. Rose says:

    @Ragdoll. re 3/12 11:48pm. from

    OK I went back & read this brouhaha some & your post.
    spot on.
    I myself had chosen in the past not to reply when intransient opinions gave detailed rebuttal posts. It is not productive to go tit for tat imo. I like positive analysis & assertions of opinion, which you offer. rebuttals rather than fresh analysis seems to dominate since the plea & jail release, idk why.
    Do not disappear, just state your case. In the meantime, others like Jen need your thought cells. warmly.

  27. Ragdoll says:

    @ Rose says:

    March 19, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    Rose, bless your dear heart. I appreciate your feedback, friendy! It’s hard for me not to get personal when offering opinions as it all comes from some kind of experience. Otherwise, I stand back and let the experts do the real work.

    I don’t intend to disappear, lovely~~~ I’m just going to leave more posting room for details that will lead to the truth. Most who know me on here know I can’t keep my yap shut perpetually. I own Foghorn Leghorn blathering. Something will inspire me to post, IF I believe it will benefit our wee cubs.

    Thank you, Rose, for the extra positive reinforcement. I do second guess myself and I sense you picked up on that. Uplifting people like yourself, are much needed in this world….not mention your gifts for details. Immense love, Rose <3

    I hope Mom, Grace and Blink are in a good place, spiritually and emotionally. This is taking it's toll, along with their involvement with the other threads.

    Love & miss y'all, precious friendies o' mine!

    ((((((((GROUP HUGS)))))))

  28. Ragdoll says:

    @ Grace….

    Not sleeping just sucks. I just wanted to briefly mention how affective melatonin is sleeplessness. It’s producted in the brain at night to prepare for sleep. It provides that naturally ‘sleepy’ feeling.

    Good news is….melatonin is completely safe. It never leaves your drowsy and literally, allows you to fall asleep naturally. My family uses it now and then. It’s not meant to be taken long term (a week at the most). I usually will dim the lights an hour before bed, prepare a cup of decaf green tea or chamomille and take the melatonin about half an hour before bed.

    Of course, I insist you see a dr. before you take this, but I have had various medical opinions and all were positive (despite medications I’m on).

    My son has a prescript for it since it’s a purer form but there is no real difference between brands.

    I just wanted to share this with you in case those sleepness nights are still and issue. I sympathize completely!

    Thank you Blink for allowing me to post…and if you see fit not to, I’m so cool with that. It is something I’ve recommended to friends and they’ve all come back saying….WOW! It works and it’s a natural night’s sleep.

    Praying y’all are in good health and surrounded by the comfort of peace and hope XOXOXOXOXOXO

  29. Mom3.0 says:


    I am glad you offered your support to Ragdoll and your condolences to Grace that was very kind of you.

    However in my opinion I think you could have accomplished this without the negativity. Rose you didnt have to bring up and link to, an already resolved misunderstanding amongst friends here on BOC-

    In my opinion bringing this up did not help… especially when you seem to be urging Ragdoll to scroll and roll right on past Grace and my posts which you equated to “intransient opinions” then IMO you made matters worse, by basically saying Grace and my posts have little to no merit because you see such posts as “detailed rebuttal posts”.

    First Rose, Ragdoll and I have been friends here on BOC for quite a long time- Grace too and she has been a very valuable poster as she has shared her experience and expertize on a number of cases- Ragdoll and I may not be experts but we post inorder to help we are all passionate advocates.

    We do not post just to post- we do not debate to go “tit for tat” we have conversations- we post to learn and to teach- and for you to advise Ragdoll, or anyone to scroll and roll is wrong- Grace and I arent trolls – BOC was NEVER that kind of place lest none of we three would have made it home-0– see I believe and as ragdoll and Grace and Blink agree we think respectful disagreement even between friends promotes learning and further advocacy-

    Rose you didnt even take the time to read through the posts before jumping in- and then after reading “some” 0f them -you then advised ragdoll to scroll and roll, and further compared our heartfelt opinions and responses to “brouhaha”

    Not cool Rose- JMO

    You defined our posts as intransient- me thinks that word does not mean what you think it means… Rose, Grace and I have not offered any set or permanent opinion- we have remained open to everyones thoughts and research- we have simply offered ours in kind.

    you went on to say:
    “I like positive analysis & assertions of opinion, which you offer. rebuttals rather than fresh analysis seems to dominate since the plea & jail release, idk why”

    intransient- meaning-
    Not transient; remaining; permanent

    assertion meaning-
    The act of asserting. Something declared or stated positively, often with no support or attempt at proof.

    -So you see, you can not devalue ones thoughts claiming that they are intransient and then turn around and bolster your asserions as anything but intransient-

    BTW “positive” posting which you value, seems to be nothing more than someone affirming your own long held somewhat intransigent opinions.

    Perhaps that is the word you were trying to use, intransigent?

    intransigent meaning-
    not willing to compromise; obstinately maintaining an attitude, impervious to pleas, persuasion, requests, and reason

    If so, again, your comparison would be wrong, as Grace and I have proven ourselves again and again to be open to all sides and to all research and to any compromise etc-

    We hold others opinions in high regards especially Blinks and friends opinions like ragdolls.

    Any opinion we have shared we have backed up with well thought out research and personal experience, we have time and time again apologized for not being able to get off the fence, we have never once claimed these 3 are innocent- and contrary to your assertions, we have come up with fresh analysis and fact based research… you might have missed it though, since you do not appreciate detailed posts that are not positively backing up your thoughts and which can be seen as “detailed rebuttals”….thats a shame Rose – as you have missed out on alot of information and lots of valuable debate.

    Devaluing others thoughts and advocacy even in an effort to help ISNT helping Rose it is harmful.
    And you probably wont even read this, but I had to give a detailed rebuttal to your assertions- to let them stand on their own would be akin to agreement and I dont agree…
    I value your posts offering both Ragdoll and Grace comfort Rose, as I stated. I just do not appreciate the way in which you chose to add on negativity…

    Several times in respectful debates with others here on Stevie Mikes and Chriss threads you have jumped in after the fact to incite the issue further, and I think this might be true in this instance also and if so, I do not appreciate it.

    If not I apologize

    I have no problem in respectfully disagreeing- and I have no problem with others offering support to a poster who shares the same opinions as they hold- but I do have a problem with someone disingenuously hiding behind others misunderstandings or disagreements inorder to perpetuate sides or turmoil.

    AJMO Peace

    Ragdoll I hope my response to Rose in no way offends you as you deserve each and every offer of support. and Grace again I offer my condolences.

    Take care

    Blink and all
    I am sorry for taking any more time away from Stevie Mike and Chris

    Mom 3.0-

    Rose, who I value as a poster, in this particular case, is like an abridged texter, imo.

    I will likely articulate this poorly, but this particular thread and case are not for the obtuse or subcutaneous reader or researcher. So with that in mind, I applaud anyone willing to dip their toe here respectfully, but it is a bit of quicksand for sure.

    I can easily see why one would be offended by Rose’s comments, but I honestly do not believe she intended it that way, not that it matters, the burden is hers in that regard and I would venture to say she would acknowledge that herself ( you better Rose, lol).

    I would rather spend my time with all of you willing to put it out there, without fear being the guide, but rather your conscious and well researched opinions in support of truth and justice than any other venue in life. It is very difficult to honor both sides of that equation, but I do know that you chose to care about 3 little boys instead of reading a People magazine in your downtime and for that I know in my soul they are grateful, as I am.

    That unites us, always will, above any difference of delivery.

    Heart u Mom 3.0, heart u Rose, and I heart every person that takes a second of their day to consider the plights of others in need.


  30. Ragdoll says:

    @ Mom3.0 says:

    March 22, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    Hey sweet friendy.

    No one could ever get me to scroll past your posts. That’s like asking me to pass on the chocolate fountain (you have no idea). I can’t tell you how much your posts have provoked intense thought…leaving me to question my own stance in this case. You are THAT articulate with your opinions. I sometimes go back to the Jackass snapping turtle vid. We’ve shared so much together. It gets ridiculous (in a good way as humour can be a great buffer for the pain we carry) in our quest for evidence or material to support our vision of what took place (poor Steve-O…but entirely grateful for his sacrifice). Holy cow, that wasn’t just a run on sentence. It was a marathon.

    We are friends bonded by our love for people, especially those who cannot speak for themselves any longer. Personally, I felt Rose was encouraging me, not discourage you or Grace….elite contributors without a doubt!

    For some reason, champions comes to mind. Triple heart you all!

  31. Ragdoll says:

    SIDE BAR to Mom.

    I just realized in my response to Rose, I did fail to defend you and Grace. I missed that entirely since I didn’t perceive an attack on you and Grace. I am flattered by Rose’s response. I took it as a side dish of encouragement. Thank you, again Rose.

    I did not take your response the wrong way. Like you always do, you shed a different angle on an opinion. I owe you an apology for not standing up for you and Grace more often. We met her because of Caylee. That was almost 4 years ago! We’ve come a long way. This particular thread is a new experience for us as we are used to being in agreement. We have been challenged to reach beyond our own understanding by listening and keeping an open mind. I think we’ve all come a long ways in our personal growth and ability to express thoughtfully. Instances of strong disagreement or words in anger are bound to manifest. I still regret that I didn’t think before I posted to you. You didn’t deserve it, not did Grace. In positive, I feel blessed and more appreciative of our connection on BOC, however. Mom and Grace, again, I can’t say it enough….you have made me a better person. I’ve never met such gracious, selfless, tenacious angels. Your loyalty to your fellow Blinksters and its’ causes can’t be denied.

    Please forgive for not presenting you and Grace in a positive light. I delighted in the compliment without regard for how you both could perceive it. Mom, please accept my humble apologies for not giving credit where it deserves to be. XO

    Blink, I truly appreciate your ability to see our hearts and intentions. How gracious of you to acknowledge all efforts, despite some of us (yours truly) being slow in delivery and articulation. I know I’ve challenged your patience but you continued to give me a place to spread my wings and offer a voice to all our cherubs. My confidence has grown in leaps and bounds, but most importantly, I am learning serious critical thinking on this site. It’s been a cathartic, scary and fullfilling journey to share with y’all.

    Thinking of our wee cubs XO!

  32. Mom3.0 says:

    Blink, thank you for taking the time to respond- and thank you for always giving us the benefit of the doubt.

    I know that you value Rose as a poster- I have been reading Jennifer Keese’s threads – she is a great contributor and I realize we all have different delivery styles-

    I again Have no problem with Rose stepping in at any time to offer her thoughts and certainly not when she is offering support, comfort and kindness.

    Blink, sadly I do not think I am misinterpreting Roses intentions to use this opportunity to perpetuate sides and turmoil or worse yet to incite others to take offense.

    Dear Blink did you read the post that Rose chose to underscore and agree with as “spot on”?

    This post was Ragdolls post which she apologized for writing in anger and frustration- it was based on a misunderstanding- it was a post which was hurtful

    Rose could have chose any # of other posts by Ragdoll which she stated her opinions the same opinions- just without the misunderstanding… yet she chose not to

    I cant help but take offense to Roses posts Blink- I cant see how I could have misinterpreted her intentions although I hope I have… as I would hate to think anyone would manipulate others misunderstandings and hurt feelings in order to antagonize or make a point.

    Blink, I really appreciate your response- I found it to be one of your best.
    Thanks for always being here not just for the victims and their families but for us too-
    We certainly make you earn your title as moderator and chief.

    Keep up the good work

    Adding my
    My prayers for Stevie Mike and Chris and their families.

    One of my fave movies is Lemony Snickets. Do you remember when Jim Cary was driving the Boudelaire children to the train track and he looked in the rearview mirror and there were like 5?

    When I took Blink Jr to see it when he was 5 on our date night (individual Mommy time, taking turns) he said, Mommy- what does he need all those for, or do only Mommies have eyes in the back of their heads?

    That is how I feel right now, lol. Confession to all- I do not really have eyes in the back of my head, I do my best :)


  33. Mom3.0 says:

    Ha ha – yes I do remember that butt clip- too funny-
    Thank you Ragdoll for always going that extra mile to make a person know they are appreciated.
    I am glad that my posts made you think Ragdoll as your have a 1000x for me-

    No right or wrong -just sharing of opinions and ideas hoping something will help those little guys and their families.

    Peace and love to you my friend-

  34. Mom3.0 says:

    Caught it friend, tis all good :)

  35. Mom3.0 says:

    Dearest Ragdoll, I just finished reading your “sidebar” comment to me-

    My deepest thanks for taking the time to write such a beautiful heartwarming post. Remember when you said you felt like an idiot for crying at your keyboard? Well add me to the list of idiots Ragdoll- your post moved me to tears-
    Ragdoll you do not have to apologize for taking delight in Roses support. You deserve the support and Rose was right to extend her hand to you. I never meant to take anything away from her kindness to you. I just wanted to express my disagreement over her added comments, I know you understand this…so please dont feel bad.

    Please do not second guess yourself Ragdoll- I know your intentions are good.
    You are one of the kindest most genuinely sweet people I have ever met- and that includes those in the “real world” as well-

    Hugs xox


    Lemony Snickets you say? Well gosh darn you and Blink Jr just went further up in my “cool” list of people-
    My children and I love that series and that movie- and I hear you loud and clear Blink- I will pipe down in the back seat before you have to pull the car over, and I must say- for someone who does not have eyes in the back of their head you do a pretty good job of keeping us all in check.

    I leave you all with some LS quotes which seem to be written just for us here on BOC…those who are united in their advocacy.

    AJMO Peace

    “Your initial opinion on just about anything may change over time.”
    ― Lemony Snicket, The Bad Beginning

    “People aren’t either wicked or noble. They’re like chef’s salads, with good things and bad things chopped and mixed together in a vinaigrette of confusion and conflict.”
    ― Lemony Snicket, The Grim Grotto

    “It is very unnerving to be proven wrong, particularly when you are really right and the person who is really wrong is proving you wrong and proving himself, wrongly, right.”
    ― Lemony Snicket, The Blank Book

    “Sometimes words are not enough.”
    ― Lemony Snicket, Horseradish: Bitter Truths You Can’t Avoid

    “I am so tired, I can hardly type these worfs.”
    ― Lemony Snicket, The Carnivorous Carnival

    “Grammar is the greatest joy in life, don’t you find?”
    ― Lemony Snicket, The Wide Window

    “Arguing with somebody is never pleasant, but sometimes it is useful and necessary to do so.”
    ― Lemony Snicket, Horseradish: Bitter Truths You Can’t Avoid

    “Right, good temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant.”
    ― Lemony Snicket, The Reptile Room

    “All cannot be lost when there is still so much being found”
    ― Lemony Snicket

    Hugs to all keep on keeping on guys for
    “Wicked people never have time for reading. It’s one of the reasons for their wickedness.”
    ― Lemony Snicket

    AJMO Peace

  36. Blink says:

    @mom 3.0
    LOL. You made my day. And have apparently made the connection to my writing style and grammar lol.

  37. Ragdoll says:

    Lemony Snicket is next on my must see. Thanks for the giggles, ladies XO

  38. GraceintheHills says:

    35. Mom3.0 says:
    March 23, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    Hugs to all keep on keeping on guys for
    “Wicked people never have time for reading. It’s one of the reasons for their wickedness.”
    ― Lemony Snicket

    This one is my favorite, Mom3.0. Thanks for bringing a smile to my heart. Heart you.

    26. Rose says:
    March 19, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    Rose, rebuttals can and have included different perspectives and fresh analyses on the evidence and opinions of the evidence in this case much like rebuttal phases in trials do. Although the three stand convicted and these convictions afford legal closure, the case is not at rest for many. Whether we like it or not, this case will be debated and discussed for a long time. The Judge who accepted the Alford pleas made that clear when he addressed the audience in his courtroom after he accepted the pleas.

    His remarks start around 23 minutes into the video:

    Thank you for the suggestion of “A Grief Observed.” I am a C.S. Lewis fan, and read that book when my beloved stepdad passed.

    @Ragdoll, bless your heart. I loved your reference to Foghorn Leghorn, one of my all time favorite cartoon characters. :) Heart you!
    Actually, I did find Rose’s comments to be disrespectful for those of us who hold opposing views, and an attempt “stir up the environment” as we say in my profession. Don’t know if that was her intent as she generally has pertinent and positive posts on other threads. But, then again, I am taking comments like that with a grain of salt at this time in my life. So, all’s good. Moving on.

    Things are calming down a bit around here for me, so I have had some time to read BOC. As Mom3.0 said, “keep on keeping on.”

    Btw, my friend who passed away called this case “The Great Divider.” She was very wise. She and I spent time discussing it and, at times, our discussions grew heated, but we always respected each other’s opinions and remained as close as ever.

    Sending out lots of positive energy today to Blink, Blinksters, and the families and friends of Stevie, Michael and Chris.

  39. marbor says:

    Do I really need to comment on that for anyone?

    Good, cause it would not be ladylike.

  40. Mom3.0 says:

    Marbor thanks for that link.

    Blink unladylike- since when?

    Grace- hello- I am glad to read that you are making your way –
    your friend was extremely insightful “the great divider” certainly seems that way at times-

    I am glad that we here on BOC bridge the Divide to end up always on the same side- the side of the victims and their families-

    Glad you all liked the LS quotes-

    Seems most have stopped discussing this case…I can understand why but if its alright with Blink and whomever is still reading, I intend to keep on with my research and my sharing of thoughts-
    I cant seem to just walk away from this one those little innocent babies-

    I am still looking forward to reading Blinks upcoming article too.


    Take care guys-

  41. GraceintheHills says:

    Mom3.0, I am taking a temporary respite from research, but I am very much looking forward to whatever you can uncover in this case. I also am eagerly awaiting Blink’s next article. I will definitely keep reading.

  42. Mom3.0 says:

    Ive been thinking about the lack of blood evidence on the shirts, we know what Misskelley said happened- he confessed to the beatings occuring while the children were clothed and he confessed to the shirts being held over the mouths of the boys to quiet their screams-

    The evidence does not back up any of these claims – we know he was lying but some see his lying as a way to divert from the truth and others see it as proof he wasnt there and didnt know-

    As everyone already knows i disregard Misskelleys statements-

    My thoughts now do not go to show one way or another if Misskeeley was lying and innocent or lying and covering

    That said-

    On hot days boys take off their shirts – this could be the reason no blood evidence was found on the victims shirts- perhaps they removed them themselves before hand-

    Ive been thinking of the bindings- many theories have been given IRT why the boys were tied the way they were- one being for transport …

    BUT what if we are all over thinking this detail too?

    Could it be that the perps tied up the boys after they were either unconscious or dead… lying in a fetal position -
    picture a child curled up in this position you want to tie them the easiest way possible- – you dont want to touch them anymore than you have to at this point…so you grab their shoes remove the laces and you tie first the “top” hand to the “top” wrist and then you do the same with the other two boys- then after the “top” hands and feet are bound- you move on- pushing them over to the opposite side… thereby changing the “top hand and the “top” foot

    This method would also work if one or more of the boys were lying “under” the bike or placed in a trunck or truck bed or trailer…first tie the hands and feet on top and then tie the bottom once you have turned them over…

    Just some thoughts-thanks for letting me post them

  43. GraceintheHills says:

    Any other thoughts or research findings, Mom3.0? Case has kind of gone quiet, but still haven’t forgotten the three little ones. Hope all is well with you, Ragdoll, Blink and everyone else.

    Blink, no rush, but one day hope to see the final installment. I know you’ve got so much on your plate.

    Sending out some positive energy to the families of Stevie, Michael and Chris. May the angels hold them close.

    My dear Grace I think I can commit to “one day” :)
    Would love for you to weigh in on some of the Josh Powell coverage, I am working on publishing part 2
    All my best-


  44. Mom3.0 says:

    Hi Grace-
    Thanks for asking I am sorry I have not been able to post much or often-

    This school year is kicking my butt- My childrens schedules are all in conflict and I have been trying to go with the flow but the flow seems to be huge waves crashing over my head…

    I havent had many moments to research or post- and this case is one that takes careful research and careful wording of posts….
    I havent forgotten Stevie Mike or Chris, in fact, often times, sadly, it is their little faces I see as I drift off to sleep.

    I still want to figure out what happened as I truly do not think it happened the way the prosecution presented it at all-

    I am haunted by the thought if I could only figure out what caused their injuries- the skull fractures, and the patterns on their bodies, the rest will fall into place.

    I hope you are doing well too, I am glad to read that you are participating in the Kyron threads- I hope he and his family, as well as the other posters can benefit from your experience and expertize.

    The little Frog Prince can use all the help he can get.

    Peace and happiness to you my friend- I hope you will be around to read here when I do get a chance to post some more research.

    Blink- I hope it is “one day” in the not too distant future when we will all be able to read your last installment.


  45. Ragdoll says:

    Grace, thank you for thinking of me! You have a special place in my heart. All is well on this end. We’re focusing on our blessings, not our curses. What a difference.

    @ Mom….as always, infinite love to you, dear friendy.

    I hope I’m not stepping on Blink’s toes when I suggest it’s safe to say the sequel to this piece is on infinite hold. I’m sure there’s more than just a few of us wondering ‘when’. I’ve resided to accept and believe God is prepping the hearts and minds of BOC. Perhaps there won’t be a follow up, as I believe in God’s will and timing.

    I’ve been reading so many sites about this….both for and against w3m. Let’s face it…it comes down to how the evidence is interpreted. Some feel Damien’s mental state prior to the murders is irrelevant. IMHO, his mental status is a huge piece of the big picture, one way or another. If you listen to the individual wM3 interviews, they share that Ellington knew he had nothing on them, hence the Alford plea. Baldwin, for example, stated those were Ellington’s words to his defense ( I found these interviews on youtube. I can get links if asked :D . ) Wow. He’s either telling the truth or he’s lying. There’s no way of ever knowing.

    God is all knowing and just. If we, on earth, can’t solve cases like this (Kyron, Holly, Caylee, Morgan….all victims of untimely, violent deaths) soundly and convincingly, then it’s a sure thing that God’s got a hand in them. If I couldn’t believe in His truth, I’d be living in perpetual anger and hate.

    If they’re guilty, it will be exposed one way or another. If not, then they’ve nothing or no one to fear. They’re living with their clean conscience and truthful hearts. Right?

    God bless you all, dear friendies. We always have hope!

  46. GraceintheHills says:

    GraceintheHills says:
    April 17, 2012 at 12:02 am
    Any other thoughts or research findings, Mom3.0? Case has kind of gone quiet, but still haven’t forgotten the three little ones. Hope all is well with you, Ragdoll, Blink and everyone else.

    Blink, no rush, but one day hope to see the final installment. I know you’ve got so much on your plate.

    Sending out some positive energy to the families of Stevie, Michael and Chris. May the angels hold them close.

    My dear Grace I think I can commit to “one day”
    Would love for you to weigh in on some of the Josh Powell coverage, I am working on publishing part 2
    All my best-

    Blink, the JP case has bothered me so much that I don’t think I can keep my fingers from typing…they are going to have a mind of their own, I fear. Looking forward to hearing more.

    P.S. My (step)son and his fiancee’s big New Jersey wedding is coming up in mid-May, and I am so excited I can bearly sit still! :)

  47. GraceintheHills says:

    Sounds as if Ellington, like the first two prosecutors in the two WM3 trials, was not very confident about the “mountain of evidence” against the three, and was more concerned that if the three were acquitted the state would have to not only foot the bill for the three new trials, but would likely have to pay damages if lawsuits were filed:

    I would have liked to have seen them retried, but reading this and other statements made by Ellington paints a picture of what was likely going on behind the scenes before the Alford pleas. I have heard people criticize Ellington for not reading the entire file on each defendant. The District Attorney does not have to read every single paper in the file to know the heart of the case against a defendant (i.e. the most inculpatory evidence). If reading the entire file were common practice (and it is not even when making a decision to retry) a DA would never have time to sleep. It is common practice for ADAs to present the case (the inculpatory and possible exculpatory evidence they have) to the DA. It’s crystal clear Ellington was not willing to role the dice on new jury trials.

  48. GraceintheHills says:

    Footnote to my above post of April 21, 2012 at 12:20PM:

    Let me vent for a minute. For me, things have never added up in these cases. If the DA does have enough evidence to put these three away for good, WHY in the world did he let these three out on Alford pleas – and recommend time served so they can go out and (perhaps) commit other crimes? After all, he is claiming that the case is solved and the right perps were convicted.

    These were particularly heinous child homicides. FTLOG. Blink, what kind of logic is that? Perhaps some of these decision-makers live in a parallel universe? Perhaps under rocks? IDK. Someone help me out here. I am starting to think the whole world is going to hell in a bucket. And, no, I am NOT enjoying the ride.

    All just my opinion. I am not saying anyone did anything wrong, but it just smells a bit fishy to me. I still have visions of Michael, Stevie, and Chris in my head as I fall to sleep at night. I want to know if LE got it right for the sake of justice for these children, period. Look at the Etan Patz case. My husband still remembers feeling sick when he heard Etan was missing, and having such sympathy for the parents. Every parent in America probably had similar feelings.

    Anyone who would take a child or children and murder them should expect a special reservation in hell, imo. A deluxe suite, of sorts.

    I don’t mean to sound so angry. I am just so tired of hearing of all these child (and adult) abductions and murders. Josh Powell has literally become the two most vulgar words in the English language to me. But, I know there are more – many more.
    To all you perps out there, especially those of you who think you have gotten away with it because you are so smart: sooner or later your time will come. You will pay.

    Whew! It felt good to get that off my chest, Blink! Thanks for hearing me out. Nite all.

    Blink, where’s Lea been lately? Miss her and her little Min Pin. :)


    You have hit on the heart of the matter here, regardless of personal belief in guilt or innocence of the WM3. Ellington had a duty under his appointment and oath to seek prosecution under the law, as he said in his own words he had no doubt that the 3 committed the crimes they were already found guilty of, and eventually pled to.

    No other way to interpret his duty or failure of.

    Ms. Lea is case-heavy lol, but Izzy is her usual randy self and in love with the neighbor dog she cannot have and caused her Mom to install invisible fencing :)

  49. susan says:

    I see the same three posters here week after week. Will there EVER be a part three written or is this really just a dead issue???

  50. Chest Rockwell says:

    “as he said in his own words he had no doubt that the 3 committed the crimes”

    Link please.

    And yes, Susan, this is a dead issue. There is nothing to reveal other than some silly ice axe “evidence” (“But I had professionals examine it!”). There will be no part 3, and if there is, it will not reveal anything of any significance.

    Yo, this is my site, do your own research, it is all here. Let me know if you decide to take weeks of your time to research and write something, I will be glad to read it.

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