Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island

Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.


Update 1:  As referenced on KOIN,  a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair.  Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing.  The possible “hair” was sent for testing.

Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm  whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.

Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman,  Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.

It is also the former home of a man considered to be  Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results.  Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.

Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.

David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle  and is being cared for by a friend of the family.  Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.

Please check back to for updates to this breaking story.


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  1. Malty says:

    I skipped Kaine being a planner
    He sure is
    Because someone would point out his job and so on

  2. Rose says:

    Media. For whatever reason, the post-abduction sole scrutiny of TMH as to the abduction itself, along with the tracking her Mrs Young has promoted, has kept the media eye and questions on her only.
    There have been no questions of the bios’ management of the aftermath of the abduction.
    If this were a shell game, media eyes have been on the movements & contents of only one shell.
    That Kyron Horman Foundation 990 has been in the public domain since February. No questions.
    –Will your Foundation activities include any operations relating to Kyron’s abduction or finding Kyron,
    in addition to your “raising awareness” goal?
    –Did the Foundation pay expenses on the Calif award trip?
    –Is it tax exempt yet?
    –Have you asked mcso to turn the case over to the FBI? Why not?
    –Have you considered, and will you ever consider, hiring a PI?
    to Desiree – what’s the nature & frequescy of contact between yourself or sister and the
    Roseburg Supports group? What do you think of their FB page?
    Have you thought of hiring a PI, why or why not?
    Have you asked mcso to turn over investigation to the FBI? Why or why not?
    Did you interview attorneys before engaging Mr Rosenthal? Who recommended him to you?

    Anyone think of more aftermath management questions that media could have asked bios, but don’t?

  3. Rose says:

    Someone here recently was asking about Kindercare?
    A Debbie Watson, Beaverton, is listed as VC of Kaine’s Board on the 990.
    Kindercare Beaverton has a woman with same name

  4. T. Ruth says:

    Hmmm, I posted this earlier on:

    oung Desiree/Horman Terri Multnomah 7/18/12 3:30 TNGW 208 JUDGE WALLER 120606956 Hearing Case Management

    Are there two judges hearing this case? Or did they “switch” to Kantor, is this normal?

  5. lyla says:

    @MockingbirdSings says:
    July 22, 2012 at 11:46 pm
    lyla says:
    (snipped) “July 22, 2012 at 1:04 pm
    If Terri is totally innocent of any wrongdoing regarding Kyron’s disappearance, why doesn’t she file a defammation of character suit against LE, media? Possibly KH and DY also who have been extremely vocal about her alleged involvement in Kyron’s disappearance?”
    Thanks for the detailed info. I expected as such. Thanks again!!

  6. MockingbirdSings says:

    Oregon Charities Database Search Results

    Kyron Horman Foundation, The
    c/o Bruce Holliday
    PO Box 1783
    Beaverton OR 97075

    Registration: 41566
    IRS Code: n/a
    EIN: 273291828
    Phone: (503) 646 – 0801
    Most Recent Reporting Period:
    From: Jan 1, 2010 to: Dec 31, 2010

    Category 327: Prevention of cruelty to children
    Purpose: To provide funds to locate a lost child.

    Total Revenue: $27246.00

    Program Service Expense: 0

    Management Expense: 0

    Fund Raising Expense: 0

    Total Assets: $25,620.00

    Current Campaign:

    Oregon Dept of Justice Charitable Activities Section 7-23-12

    I did not log into GuideStar to read more details, but it says form 990 was filed. It is possible to be a non-profit and use “foundation” in your name when you do not qualify as a foundation according to IRS tax rules. If you were an IRS (by definition) foundation, you would file 990 PF forms.

    An organization that is not actually a foundation does not have to give away its money through grants, deal with percentages of income used in that manor, etc. You can find the differences by looking at the IRS directions for filing 990 and 990-PF and comparing the 2. It isn’t clear which they are, but it would be if someone looked at the form they filed. Since the state doesn’t say which form in 2010, it’s unclear whether GuideStar was right about the 990 being filed or it could have been 990-PF. I couldn’t find it online. Perhaps Blink would like to request a copy of the tax forms directly from the KHF – they are required to provide it and allowed to charge for copies and postage (or maybe they could just send a pdf). You can get it other places, but it takes much longer than a direct request should.


    “Help The Kyron Horman Foundation support awareness campaigns for missing children. The Foundation has received our official 501(c)(3) non-profit status and your donations are now tax deductible!”

    “For every dollar donated to a child, 100% of those funds go to supporting awareness campaigns for that child and no place else.”

    The only child listed under “sponsored children” is Kyron, but the organization also says it offers “a variety of services, including, but not limited to the following:
    ◦How to quickly assemble and launch effective public awareness campaigns
    ◦How to partner effectively with law enforcement and the media
    ◦General counsel throughout the search process.”

    I’m sure they have learned a lot that may qualify them to offer these services. Would I personally ask them for help? Probably not, at least at this point.

    It appears I could donate money and designate another missing child, and they would use it solely to support an awareness campaign for that child. This doesn’t make good sense to me from a practical, organizational operations standpoint and the size of the donations they are likely to receive in this manner.

    Unless we find they are taking in hundreds of thousands of dollars, I probably will let this go – although that’s something I seem to have trouble doing with details (sorry, Blink).

  7. lyla says:

    @January says:
    July 23, 2012 at 3:22 am
    @ Malty says: July 22, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    (snipped) Something about Dede. Little K was at Fred Myer with Terri after the science fair, but I’ve not read that anyone saw her inside the school with Terri. I can’t help but wonder if Dede was in the truck watching the baby while Terri was in the school. I also don’t believe her. Not to say I think she had anything to do with Kyron, but something about her and Terri and that morning are very hinky!


    As I posted about Dede I do not think she did this but I do think she tried to act like a casual
    Friend who had rare contact with the family
    And I don’t believe her
    One Skyline parent (there are probably others)reported seeing Kiara in the school with Terri on June 4th.

  8. Rose says:

    looking for Kantor-Rosenthal ties (I figured someone was forum shopping to be honest), expecting to see Temple committees, instead here’s a blurb on the top right where they co-teaching CEU’s (HIPPA).
    I’m surprised CEUs are taught by County Bar & not a State office, as well as that Judges & attorneys are on same content panel. Here that’s only done if an issue directly relates to the bench. Also here there’s usually a plaintiff and defense bar repr on same presentation. About all appearing together means is they are both well respected locally.

  9. Malty says:

    The media can’t force people to answer
    I think if questions were asked

  10. T. Ruth says:

    Idahogal says:
    July 22, 2012 at 10:52 am

    T. Ruth says:
    July 21, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    I wonder who was telling JW this:

    “I also want to say that I need to be respectful to the investigators and their work in progress trying to find Kyron, ***I also need to be careful about divulging information about my relatives and I have been told not to discuss my volunteering as a child advocate.***”

    This was before everyone was way ahead of him and knew he was full of shit, and lied about his credentials.
    He is not going to be bothering anyone again.

    Oh Blink, LOL, I do love your zingers.

    @TRuth- Thanks for that link re: JW and his incessant letters, interviews and posts. It was interesting to read again, reminded me of why he created so much suspicion. He is an idiot, IMHO, and I think he got himself into some hot water with LE when he sent those written threats to various bloggers.


    LOL, I think JW, or at least his intentions, may be just a few boards short of a fence. Maybe he honestly had good intentions of some kind, but I find his letters both bizarre and creepy. Hopefully LE does know. However, it is his family history that really scares me. Which is why I found his mention of someone telling him not to talk about his family very interesting. Maybe no one told him that, but if so, why bring it up, particularly if you’re trying to hide it in the first place. Is it possible JW interjected himself because he actually knows something, perhaps not directly pertaining to Kyron, but something awful. As we’ve seen time and time again, sometimes things are passed down in families other than the heirlooms. JW is the child of a very prominent businessman who is in jail for possession of child pornography, and who happens to have business offices all over the world. Not to mention some sort of tie to an orphanage. I can only hope that LE has looked at these people through huge magnifying lenses. For all we know daddy dearest could be the next Sandusky. Could there be a cover up?

    (Can’t find get the link to work to the USJD anymore, but here’s part of the press release:)

    “Wishart eventually admitted to paying for subscription access to commercial child pornography web sites, and to downloading images and videos of child pornography. Child pornography was found on Wishart’s home computer, an external hard drive at his residence, and a laptop computer he used at work.”

    Wonder who else was arrested with him in that pedo snare? They tracked him somehow from somewhere. Odd there’s no mention of it in any of the articles I’ve seen.

    I don’t know what’s going on in this case, but without more information, the possibilities are endless. How is it that two people are connected to this case with a background in pedophilia, Kristian Horman (allegedly a grandfather as well) & William Kent Wishart?

    At some point, one would think Staton would come forward and explain his “things that will surprise you” statement. It’s pretty obvious the DA is still after TMH, so where’s the surprise in that?


    Here’s a list of the top 150 companies in Portland, WKW’s was 137 in 2005.

  11. MockingbirdSings says:

    T. Ruth says:
    July 23, 2012 at 11:58 am
    Hmmm, I posted this earlier on:
    Young Desiree/Horman Terri Multnomah 7/18/12 3:30 TNGW 208 JUDGE WALLER 120606956 Hearing Case Management
    Are there two judges hearing this case? Or did they “switch” to Kantor, is this normal?

    I’ve never heard of having 2 judges ruling on one issue unless they are “a set” like a state supreme court. It could be something as simple as a scheduling conflict. Or a change of judge could have been requested. I think that would be a matter of public record – not sure, but no reason why not since it’s legal and acceptable.

    The handling of civil cases in Multnomah County seems somewhat complicated. New procedures which seem to simply the process began in February of 2012. If you are interested in this process, here’s a link:
    The way it appears to me, there is a brief case management hearing and one judge is assigned to hear all motions and handle all hearings related to this case. At that time, either can ask to call this a “complex case” which then allows an extra year to prepare. I don’t think that’s the basis for Houze asking for a delay, but it could be. The judge who actually hears the case in court is assigned later.

    It will be interesting to see if they choose a trial before a jury or only a judge. Here’s an article about that subject – too long to snip, but pretty easy to skim if you are looking for an overview.

    Re asking for a change of judge:
    Oregon – 14.260¹
    Affidavit and motion for change of judge
    • time for making
    • limit of two changes of judge

    (1) Any party to or any attorney appearing in any cause, matter or proceeding in a circuit court may establish the belief described in ORS 14.250 (Disqualification of judge) by motion supported by affidavit that such party or attorney believes that such party or attorney cannot have a fair and impartial trial or hearing before such judge, and that it is made in good faith and not for the purpose of delay. No specific grounds for the belief need be alleged. Such motion shall be allowed unless the judge moved against, or the presiding judge for the judicial district, challenges the good faith of the affiant and sets forth the basis of such challenge. In the event of such challenge, a hearing shall be held before a disinterested judge. The burden of proof shall be on the challenging judge to establish that the motion was made in bad faith or for the purposes of delay.

    (2) The affidavit shall be filed with such motion at any time prior to final determination of such cause, matter or proceedings in uncontested cases, and in contested cases before or within five days after such cause, matter or proceeding is at issue upon a question of fact or within 10 days after the assignment, appointment and qualification or election and assumption of office of another judge to preside over such cause, matter or proceeding.

    (3) No motion to disqualify a judge shall be made after the judge has ruled upon any petition, demurrer or motion other than a motion to extend time in the cause, matter or proceeding. No motion to disqualify a judge or a judge pro tem, assigned by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court to serve in a county other than the county in which the judge or judge pro tem resides shall be filed more than five days after the party or attorney appearing in the cause receives notice of the assignment.

    (4) In judicial districts having a population of 100,000 or more, the affidavit and motion for change of judge shall be made at the time and in the manner prescribed in ORS 14.270 (Time of making motion for change of judge in certain circumstances).

    (5) No party or attorney shall be permitted to make more than two applications in any cause, matter or proceeding under this section. [1955 c.408 §1(2); 1959 c.667 §1; 1981 c.215 §6; 1987 c.338 §2; 1995 c.781 §29]

    My guess is that Houze has more experience before Judge Kantor because of the type of cases he (Kantor) has handled during his time on the bench. Don’t know if that’s a pro or a con. Both seem to be competent, dedicated judges.
    Henry Kantor is a Judge of the Circuit Court of the State of Oregon for Multnomah County. He was appointed to the District Court in 1994, was elected to a six-year District Court term in 1996, became a Circuit Court Judge in 1998 and was elected to six-year Circuit Court terms in 2002 and 2008. Prior to taking judicial office, Judge Kantor practiced civil trial and appellate law in Oregon’s state and federal courts, emphasizing class actions and other complex litigation, as well as serving as an arbitrator, pro-tem judge and reference judge. As a trial judge, he presides over civil, criminal and probate trials, sits on the court’s Civil Motion Panel and, for several years, administered the court’s Medical Negligence and Asbestos Dockets. During 2004-2005, Judge Kantor sat pro-tem on the Oregon Court of Appeals. Feb 2012
    Although many of you already know the Honorable Nan Waller, formerly chief family court judge, we think you might appreciate a little insight into what is on her mind as she begins her new role as presiding judge.

    At this time I plan to keep my retained cases and to cover some of each of the courts different dockets. Realistically, time will tell how that plays out. It helps me if I’m actually taking cases to have a better understanding of what works and what doesn’t. I hope to continue to do settlement conferences.

    Beyond being well-grounded in the law and the rules that provide a framework for decision making, what I really admire is the ability of a judge to conduct a proceeding or trial in a manner that will leave every litigant believing that they have had a fair hearing. Judges who are patient, respectful to everyone in the courtroom and allow litigants to put on their case instill confidence in our justice system no matter what the outcome of the case.

    There are lawyers who walk into the courtroom and you know you are in for a treat – they are well prepared, professional in their demeanor both in and out of the courtroom and are able to set out their case in a straightforward and understandable fashion. Good lawyers are good educators for the court and for a jury.
    Judge Waller attended Smith College and, after transfer, graduated from Stanford. Having grown up in Portland , she returned to Oregon to attend the U of O Law School.

    She then worked with the Metropolitan Public Defender and shifted gears to parent and took half-time work in the juvenile court as a referee under the tutelage of Judge Linda Bergman in 1989.

    Her passion shows through in the juvenile court, where she has successfully worked to change the structure of how families are dealt with at intake when the threat clearly exists that children will be removed from their home.

    She enjoys the change in the family court system to the integrated court, whereby if she finishes a juvenile case but family law issues arise in the future, she can keep that case henceforth. In the family court case, especially in a low-income family, her knowledge of the family’s history can substitute for lack of resources available to the parties in the divorce or future parenting plan litigation.

    Did someone recuse? Does MC rotate their judges between civil and criminal?


  12. Malty says:

    I thought Kaine and the media had an agreement
    Between them on interviews
    But If I wanted to ask one question
    I would be why no one but Terri was ever
    considered in the early days when this SZ
    Might have been located if they had moved fast
    Why did the person who left with Kyron get no notice
    From family

  13. Rose says:

    first post (see tightside identifier) is by a current member of Kaine’s BKH Foundation Board
    overlapping interests: volunteers at a car museumplanning a tour to germany
    didn’t Terri complain of a trip of Kaine’s to Germany?

  14. Rose says:

    “rightside,” a typo not a F slip :)

  15. Rose says:

    Jeff also an Intel employee.
    None of the original Intel employee Kyron search leaders from June-July 2010 are on this BKH Board.
    Maybe they just burned out running command ctr & prayer service.

  16. T. Ruth says:

    @MockingbirdSings says:
    July 24, 2012 at 1:25 am

    Thanks for the information! Would be interesting to know why the change in judges, guess we’ll find out someday.

  17. Amys Sister says:

    Malty says:
    July 24, 2012 at 3:38 am
    …why no one but Terri was ever
    considered in the early days when this SZ
    Might have been located if they had moved fast
    Why did the person who left with Kyron get no notice
    From family

    This is a good question Malty. My hunch is that LE, the media, and the family all believed that Terri either orchestrated the disappearance or in some other way was deeply involved and for whatever reason they have decided to be highly secretive about the man responsible for actually taking Kyron. IMO they knew early on that it was not Terri who removed Kyron from the school yet two years later they still refuse to publicly acknowledge that.

  18. T. Ruth says:

    I don’t know if it’s true or not, but there’s a poster on TN that says this:

    AnonymousJuly 22, 2012 5:57 PM

    “I am aware of an incident at Skyline during the 2011-2012 school year where an unattended child was found by her mother walking the track with a homeless person during school hours. The incident happened during recess and the person on duty for that area was MIA. None of the other students or adult supervisors were within visual range.

    There are no fences in this area and as someone commented above, I would be concerned about the access that a paedophile could have to a lone child such as the girl on the track.”

    Has anyone heard about anything like that or is there a way to find out? If this is true, I’m wondering where this guy got off to? Is he still listed as “homeless”? This angers me, he tries to abduct a kid and he gets 60-days for menacing?!!!
    Convicted sex offender found guilty of menacing fifth-grade St. Helens boy
    Published on Friday, July 23, 2010 | Written by (none)
    Tony Phipps sentenced to 60 days in jail, may face additional sanctions
    by: Courtesy photo, Tony Phipps

    Tony Phipps, the registered sex offender who was arrested last month for grabbing at an 11-year-old St. Helens boy on his way home from school, pleaded “no contest” Thursday.

    Phipps, a 36-year-old transient who was living in a tent by the river in St. Helens, was sentenced on July 22 to 60 days in jail for the Class A misdemeanor charge of menacing. He may face additional sanctions for violating parole.

    His case was originally set to go to jury trial on Aug. 5.

    On June 8, a student at Lewis and Clark Elementary School told police a man had tried to grab his backpack on his way home from school (see June 9 Spotlight issue, “Convicted sex offender held after alleged St. Helens child abduction attempt”). The next day a city employee saw a man, who was arrested and identified as Phipps, who fit the description of the suspect.

    Phipps was arrested for attempted kidnapping, but that charge was dropped because investigators did not have any evidence.

    Phipps is a registered sex offender in Lane County, having previously been convicted of felony sodomy and misdemeanor contributing to the sexual delinquency of a minor.

    He doesn’t seem to be listed anywhere here in Oregon any more. Does anyone know if he was sentenced to any more than the 60 days? Like for violating parole.

  19. Kim from PA says:

    T. Ruth’s comment above instantly brings 2 memories back to me:

    The woman who reported a boy who looked like Kyron without glasses living with a homeless man who had stray cats. It was in Ockley near a school. Supposedly an abandoned house was on school property. The woman gave them food and water and the boy never said his name and the man never answered questions about the boy. I believe police checked it out and said it wasn’t Kyron.

    I remember at the time though, I was thinking there was a possiblity Kyron was left in the woods by Terri and maybe found a homeless man to help take care of him (wishful thinking on my part).

    The 2nd thing that comes to mind from T. Ruth’s comment is the early reports in Kyron’s case that indicated dogs had tracked Kyron’s scent to the railroad tracks. I don’t know if that is true or not.

    These are all my own recollections and thoughts.

  20. Kim from PA says:

    Just to clarify, I do not believe the reports that Kyron’s scent was tracked by dogs to the railroad tracks. I think police would have released that info if it were true. I just remember all the chatter about railroad tracks behind the school, search & rescue in the 1st 24 hours, and the fact that railroad tracks are close to the deadend where Jim Kelly saw the white truck ideling at 3PM on June 4th 2010.

  21. Rose says:

    @MBS. Guidestar is free and its value is to show a photocopy of the actual 990, whose value is all the explanatory script about extensions (and denials) and current Board and tax exempt status issues recounted by their history, etc. Also exactly what expenses or disbursements are is shown. You see the actual handwriting even….

  22. Rose says:

    Apparently per 990 only one 2010 extension was approved, the next denied, but they filed in 2012 for 2010 anyway.
    So I predict there was one extension requested & approved for year ending 2011, so those expenses & disbursements would not have been filed yes is my guess. It really is useful to view the actual 990, always for every charity. Guidestar is a public service.

    I believe the poster on TN of the 2011 Skyline incident due to the level of detail.
    Given the ages served and the surrounding wilderness,
    I am surprisedthe pta has not demanded a
    property fence. Call in JW.

  23. Rose says:
    Note attorneys for appellant.
    On other joint programs for the OR Bar (not that that means anything but common subject matter competence).
    Rackner got the RO in Chambers from an old office co-worker. Maybe he was just the duty judge of the day. idk.
    My open question is, what level of forum shopping goes on with experienced Portland civil bar?

  24. Rose says:
    endorsed by Staton, Kantor, Rosenthal

  25. Rose says:

    reading around the net, Kantor looks like a fine jurist. fair to
    constitutional & civil rights.
    OT: a stunningly brautiful 2012 edition of Oregon Jewish Life:
    features Rosenthal’s gifted daughter. I love the article on the cellist.

  26. T. Ruth says:
    (published June 5)

    Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point.

    (note, no mention of Terri being with Kyron at the second sighting),,20391927,00.html

    (published June 6)
    “We definitely got a late start here,” sheriff’s spokeswoman Lt. Mary Lindstrand said Saturday. “The family didn’t know that he wasn’t at school, his teacher didn’t see him, so we are feeling like we are behind the eight-ball here.”

    Hundreds Interviewed
    Authorities have been combing the school grounds and the surrounding area, while investigators interviewed nearly 200 of Kyron’s classmates and their parents at Skyline Elementary and their parents over the weekend.


    Do you think that Lt. Lindstrand mispoke here, or is it possible that the first interview with Ms. Porter was that she in fact said she didn’t see him?

    Porter went before the GJ, did she testify? Do we know if any of the staff at PPS actually testified, or were they advised against it by the PPS attorneys? Did anyone other than family take a LDT?

  27. lyla says:

    I thought some of you might be interested in this. I participated.

    “John Walsh of America’s Most Wanted will be doing a show in August from missing cases on facebook. You can help possibly get Kyron selected. Visit the America’s Most Wanted page and ask that Kyron be considered. The following message appears on Americas Most Wanted Facebook…Thank you Athena Mann for bringing this to our attention.”

    An important announcement from John Walsh:

  28. RedRose says:

    I wonder if any of those people that live up there were curious enough to go and check things out for themselves. I also still wonder if there is someone up there who knows “something” about a relative or neighbor but just isn’t speaking up. I guess we will never know after this long. Poor little boy.

    @Kim from PA says: July 24, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    … and the fact that railroad tracks are close to the deadend where Jim Kelly saw the white truck ideling at 3PM on June 4th 2010.

  29. MockingbirdSings says:

    T. Ruth says:
    July 24, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    He doesn’t seem to be listed anywhere here in Oregon any more. Does anyone know if he was sentenced to any more than the 60 days? Like for violating parole.

    I searched everything I could think of including the national database. I couldn’t find Tony Phipps after the 2010 incident. I also couldn’t find any aliases listed on his information from the past. Makes me wonder, though, if he’s living somewhere using a different name. It’s amazing to me how many of these offenders have plea bargained for lesser charges and think they really didn’t do anything “bad”. He must be out there somewhere unless he died. Anyone else want to search?

  30. MockingbirdSings says:

    MockingbirdSings says:
    July 24, 2012 at 1:25 am
    Blink’s reply:
    Did someone recuse? Does MC rotate their judges between civil and criminal?


    @ Blink –
    I really don’t know – the first assigned judge handles the case management hearing, whatever motions come up, and the trial readiness hearing. Although that is a very important part of the process, Multnomah County judges try to be consistent in as many rulings as possible and they have a process for monitoring that and determining where the disagreements are and how they should be resolved in general (not for a particular case) whenever possible. You’d think it would have to be some “heavy duty” prejudice or lack of impartiality to eliminate yourself from this part of the process (as opposed to the trial itself).

    At the initial case management hearing, either party can declare the intent to file a change of judge motion. If they don’t, the “motions judge” does not change.

    The actual trial judge isn’t assigned until the time of the trial readiness hearing which is about 8 months later. To me, that would be the most critical time to look at who the judge is, but then, I’m not an attorney. A cover sheet is required at the first case management meeting to save time.
    This is a 2-page explanation of what happens in the process.
    A list of Oregon judges – look for 38 in Multnomah County. The circuit courts are the state trial courts of general jurisdiction. Both Waller and Kantor are on the list.

    I don’t see it spelled out anywhere, but it appears that if you are a “presiding judge” you may be assigned any case that comes up, whether civil or criminal. I also don’t see any indication that the motions judge could not be assigned as the trial judge when the time comes, but I don’t think it would ever be a sure thing. Since the new rules began just a few months ago, there isn’t much to look at to see if there is any pattern.

    My personal opinion is that both attorneys and the judges are well-respected and admired in their professions, so the case will probably not be won or lost on the basis of who is selected. I would like to know, however, if they will have a jury trial, and if Houze is handling it himself or is another attorney taking the lead. Of course, if there were (now or later) a judge who had a conflict of interest and who were to recuse him/herself or who was asked (through a motion) to allow another judge to take over, it would be most interesting to find the details of why. I wonder if there is any real reporter paying attention.

  31. MockingbirdSings says:

    Amys Sister says:
    July 24, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Malty says:
    July 24, 2012 at 3:38 am
    …why no one but Terri was ever
    considered in the early days when this SZ
    Might have been located if they had moved fast
    Why did the person who left with Kyron get no notice
    From family
    This is a good question Malty. My hunch is that LE, the media, and the family all believed that Terri either orchestrated the disappearance or in some other way was deeply involved and for whatever reason they have decided to be highly secretive about the man responsible for actually taking Kyron. IMO they knew early on that it was not Terri who removed Kyron from the school yet two years later they still refuse to publicly acknowledge that.

    Does anyone think she ever said to everyone in the house in those critical first few days:

    “Look, you idiots, I left Kyron at school and took Kiara to Fred Meyer’s. If you want to find Kyron, you’d dxxx well better figure out who took him and where they went.”

    Somehow I doubt it, but the question is “why wouldn’t she”?
    Young said she didn’t believe Terri Horman from the beginning when she called to tell her that Kyron went missing from his elementary school. “There was just certain details that just didn’t make any sense that gave me that sick to my stomach feeling,” Young said.

    “I don’t think she is going to tell the truth,” Kaine Horman said.

    “She hasn’t told the truth for seven and a half years that I have known her,” Young said.

    3 variations:
    ( with MCSO Lt Mary Lindstrand where Lindstrand said:

    “His stepmother and he were in the school looking at the science fair, had been in 2 or 3 different classrooms. I am told he went up one stairwell, she went up the other stairwell. She saw him walking down the hall toward his classroom, and that’s the last she saw him.”

    More recent media stories say:
    “At 8:45 a.m. when the bell rang, Terri walked her stepson down the hall close to his class.”…the_day_k.html (link does not work now)

    “He told her, ‘I’m going back to the classroom, Mom,’ and she waves to him and left,” Carol Moulton said. “She thought he was safely at school just like he is everyday.”…the_day_k.html

    snipped from link below:
    The father of missing Portland boy Kyron Horman says the relationship between his wife and son was strained prior to the boy’s disappearance.
    While he didn’t go into specifics, Kaine Horman described the e-mails as detailing Terri Horman’s frustration with Kyron and her belief that the boy was a problem in her marriage.
    Kaine Horman went on to call his estranged wife “a master of deception and misdirection.”
    “We’re doing anything we can to discover, ‘Who is this person we’ve been around?’ It’s not the person we thought it was. It’s a completely different person living a separate life,” Kaine Horman says.
    He said things were so tense with Terri Horman that Kyron would call his mother, Desiree Young, and ask to live with her.
    “She and I were getting into arguments all the time about her relationships with the children in general and how I wasn’t finding it acceptable,” Kaine Horman says.
    Kaine Horman says her refusal to address the speculation that she is involved is telling.
    “Silence says everything in this,” he says.

    Desiree said Terri was a “pathological liar” in interview with Meredith Vieira on the Today Show:

    I thought at first that Desiree’s comment was based on her emotions and some experiences with Terri in the past, but it could also be that these words “dribbled down” from other places – a counselor, LE, a discussion with someone else trying to help her make sense of Terri’s actions. So let’s assume Desiree knew or researched the term “pathological liar”. All of us have something that comes to mind when we hear the term, but here’s a scholarly article which is well written:

    Pathological Lying: Symptom or Disease?
    By Charles C Dike, MD, MPH, MRCPsych | June 1, 2008

    (“Dr Dike is division medical director at Whiting Forensic Services at the Connecticut Valley Hospital in Middletown, and assistant clinical professor in the division of law and psychiatry of the department of psychiatry at Yale University School of Medicine in New Haven, Conn. He reports that he has no conflicts of interest concerning the subject matter of this article.”)

    “Pathological lying (PL) is a controversial topic. There is, as yet, no consensus in the psychiatric community on its definition, although there is general agreement on its core elements. PL is characterized by a long history (maybe lifelong) of frequent and repeated lying for which no apparent psychological motive or external benefit can be discerned. While ordinary lies are goal-directed and are told to obtain external benefit or to avoid punishment, pathological lies often appear purposeless. In some cases, they might be self-incriminating or damaging, which makes the behavior even more incomprehensible. Despite its relative obscurity, PL has been recognized and written about in the psychiatric literature for more than a century.”

    “The debate over the ability of pathological liars to recognize their lies as false has dogged this phenomenon for decades. Integral to the debate is the confusion emanating from questions about a pathological liar’s ability to think logically. It has been observed that pathological liars believe their lies to the extent that the belief may be delusional. As a result, PL has been referred to as a “wish psychosis.”1 Furthermore, PL has also been described as impulsive and unplanned.1 These observations have raised doubts about the pathological liar’s ability to fully control his or her lying behavior. The relative purposelessness of the lies, including the intangible benefits of false accusations or self-incrimination, and the repetitive nature of the lies, despite negative consequences to the liar’s reputation and livelihood, further encourage doubts about the liar’s ability to control his behavior.”

    “On the other hand, it has been observed that vigorously and persistently challenging pathological liars may lead pathological liars to partially acknowledge their lies, an observation that suggests the presence of logical thinking.6 Such a presentation is consistent with a view of PL as a fantasy lie, a daydream communicated as reality, told solely for the liar’s pleasure.5 Although the fantasy lies may help the pathological liar escape from stressful life situations, or compensate for developmental traumas, there is evidence that individuals with PL show normal “guilty responses” when lying during a lie-detection test.7 It is perhaps an attempt at guilt reduction that motivates pathological liars to believe their lies, thereby creating a strange form of double bind.”

    “The further observation that pathological liars usually have sound judgment in other matters and the observed association of PL with other criminal behavior in approximately half of the cases supports the notion of intact reality testing. The crimes associated with PL include theft, swindling, forgery, and plagiarism.4 It is worth noting, however, that some pathological liars are successful professionals without any public record of crime.”

    [This entire article is worth reading, IMO.]

    This is NOT an attempt to diagnosis TH or even a suggestion that I am qualified to say this term fits her – it is a “what if”. What if a person were a pathological liar as described in this article? To me, it would explain: frustration with lie detector testing, frustration with not being believed, frequently changing stories, attempts to look or behave like others in a crisis but not succeeding very well, getting oneself into trouble with others (such as a MFH request), not being allowed by attorneys to open one’s mouth or communicate electronically even with the attorney present, differing views that different people have of the same person (charming, unaware of hurting my feelings, etc.), a spouse who says “who is this person?”

    “. . . pathological liars do not show the intense affective dysregulation or suicidal behaviors that characterize BPD. In antisocial personality disorder, the lies are often for external gain, and there is a history of conduct disorder in childhood, unlike in PL. Furthermore, the lying behavior in PL covers a wider context than in factitious disorder, in which lying is solely for the purpose of assuming a sick role.”

    It would also help explain the attorneys’ complete avoidance of psychological testing and apparent great concern with putting this person on the stand to testify about ANYTHING, and the difficulty in seeing a defining set of symptoms of better known mental health problems such as were tossed out at the beginning of this case.

    “The possible consequences of PL for the liar are severe. All relationships of the liar are at risk for destruction resulting from lack of trust and credibility. The shame of socially or formally interacting with others in the company of a spouse who lies repeatedly could overwhelm the relationship. In the workplace, as their lying behavior becomes increasingly clear to their colleagues, pathological liars stand the risk of bearing the brunt of rude jokes, being alienated, or being fired. In clinical situations, the therapist has the arduous task of overcoming not only the negative countertransference of treating a habitual liar but also the frustrations of not knowing which of the patient’s statements are true.

    “Although most individuals affected with PL may not have cause to seek treatment and may indeed continue to lead highly successful and productive lives, it is not uncommon for their lies to cause them hardship through clashes with the law or other authorities, with resulting adverse consequences.

    “It is perhaps in the forensic psychiatric arena that the need to clearly define PL is most urgent. The immediate question in these settings would revolve around the issue of competency of the pathological liar to stand trial. The criteria for being competent to stand trial include an ability to work collaboratively with one’s attorney in order to confront one’s accusers. A defendant who lies frequently and repeatedly to his attorney would ultimately confuse the attorney, making it difficult to formulate a sound strategy of defense.

    “Another problem is the risk of the pathological liar being accused of perjury when he gives false testimony under oath. In the case of Judge Couwenberg, the State of California Commission of Judicial Performance noted that he did not have a mental condition that excused or mitigated his behavior. The commission concluded that the mere presence of a symptom without any mental disorder is of little legal consequence.”

    This is the first psychiatric information that has made complete sense to me since the beginning of this case – and it’s generally my field and I have researched the possibilities over and over. I just wanted to share. It sort of makes everyone who has “looked at a piece of the elephant” fit together.

  32. Malty says:

    I just have a feeling this suit against Terri
    Will be like this whole case
    Around and around and no ground action
    And drift off into space
    I hope I am wrong

  33. Malty says:

    @Rose and MBS
    Your research on the foundation is very interesting
    Thank You

  34. Malty says:

    And that JW was so into Dede when she was thin and planning healthy meals and had a job
    But when she gained weight and drew unemployment
    He insults her LOL
    What a bum

  35. Meg says:

    The FBI raids three homes in Portland today (Wednesday) and arressted residents in regards to an ongoing investigation about violent crimes. It does not specify what the violent crimes are/were.

    The addresses of the three homes are:
    “The raids happened at 4820 NE 31st Ave., 7129 NE 8th Ave. and 6846 N Greenwich Street.”

    I know that it is highly unlikely that this is related to Kyron BUT seeing headlines like this always make me wonder. I know we have some super sleuths out there so I thought you could check addresses/names etc.

  36. irisheyeswebfoot says:

    Terri Horman tries to delay lawsuit filed against her…

    Note the comment under the article by “Badcat”

  37. MockingbirdSings says:

    Re – MockingbirdSings says:
    July 25, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    PS to my own post:
    I meant to also say that if TH were a “pathological liar”, it still wouldn’t prove her guilty of anything, of course. What I was trying to explain (in my mind) was why, IMO, the case is confusing and has developed so many layers, and why someone might not even be very good at saying simply, “I didn’t do it.” In others words, the harm (to self – self-incrimination, public perception) a pathological liar could do in an interview or even in making a statement of innocence, could be worse than staying silent even though it is that silence that seems to convince a great many people of guilt. This decision is one for an attorney to wrestle with, and if that attorney recognizes the problem and is uncertain of the complete truth, then it’s probably wise for the attorney to stay silent as well (except for the required legal motions and petitions). I can also comprehend why even trying to make some sort of deal could be a form of legal quicksand.

    While waiting for my grandson at an appointment, I started reading “The Murder Business” (Mark Fuhrman). I wasn’t even into the actual book when I read this on page x: “It is the suspect who gets the ball into the air and keeps it there.” He was talking about the media frenzy that develops around some cases and not others. The media frenzy is well described in his book, but this sentence helped me to understand why it seems so hard to keep this story in front of the public. We have one unnamed suspect who says and does nothing, and one totally invisible SZ. Between the 2, we don’t even have the ball inflated, let alone in the air!

    Not saying we want a media frenzy, but media silence doesn’t seem to help much either. It would be nice to have a decent, balanced approach to this case – sigh.

  38. Rose says:

    @MBS. This case is a mess due to 1) the difficulty investigating stranger to stranger abduction; 2) investigatory incompetence, 3) goal displacement of bios, imo, 4) lack of cooperation by PPS and failure of the 2010ff PTA leaders to push LE & PPS for transparency & truth with their parent enrollment.

    You know the now-principal’s first letter said “David” (1 year mind the gap principal), “Susan” and she were finalizing staffing and class placements. She wrote about “Susan” similarly familiarly once before. Now this is the person who didn’t call tge parents numbers on the card when Kyron was reported absent and there was no note. If my el ed principal had included the Secr in my child’s class placement & staff selection, I’d be writing to the Community Supt. Somebody screen shoot:

  39. Rose says:

    I do not understand why these commenters on KGW & elsewhere have not read Burch’s pleadings re abatement (the divorce one is on line) and see in so reading his arguments that their comments make his case for him
    KGW’s “vote” comments on abatement issue:
    irresponsible of the Station. imo trying to gin up hits for advertisement data.

  40. T. Ruth says:

    Every so often I go back to the Task Force list of persons and poke around. I notice there is another Principal on the list from another middle school, Jackson Middle School, Allen Luethe. This makes me wonder if an invitation went out to all middle schools and if so, who would have sent it. It also makes me wonder if Mr. Luethe attended alone or with another teacher, perhaps also from his school that day. Or did he tour with one of Skyline’s teachers or Keefer? In any case, are there any other teachers or principals from any other schools on that list? I keep thinking about Logan Storm from Stoller Middle School. (The 3rd (alleged) pedophile somewhat associated with this case, if that is him in that picture assisting Kyron at the school fair, although LE has mysteriously never bothered to mention it if it is.)

    The way the Task Force worded the first paragraph in that letter that went out ,, was so confusing, but it made me feel that LE feels that someone on that list is covering for SZ. May or may not be Terri, but at this point, I’m thinking it’s not and after what I read in MbS’s posted story the other day about PPS teachers being just moved around the district and not having to say why they’re being moved, it just gave me chills. Reminds me of the Catholic Church and their sacred pedophiles, just being slapped on the wrist told to do penance or whatever and moved on to another church.

    Remember this post from a Skyline teacher:

    Brian Gardes
    Just found out one of the teachers is leaving my school.June 1, 2010 at 9:49pm
    Debbie Keefer I heard a rumor…..

    June 1, 2010 at 9:50pm
    Brian Gardes
    Thursday is the day the Principal is Out at an all day meeting.
    It is also the day everything at a school goes haywire.June 3, 2010 at 10:36am via iPhone

    So what was going on in that school that made it “haywire”?
    Why aren’t teacher resignations/firings public record? Or are they?
    I mean they are *public schools*, we taxpayers pay their salaries.

    Logan Storm resigned from his school, it says, August, but he was gone already? Did he actually resign earlier? There had been other charges brought against him for IIRC inappropriate touching or behavior back to 2007 which were dropped. Was there some sort of investigation going on before his girlfriend turned him in? Was there an investigation culminating around June 2010 involving PPS? Could that be what Staton referred to when he was saying the agencies needed to notify each other better?

    “Stunned, and unsure of what to do, she went to visit family in Utah. After talking with friends and family, she called Portland police, who served a search warrant early in the morning on July 26, 2010. Police took his laptop, the thumb drive and other evidence, a police detective testified, but did not immediately arrest Storm.

    On the computer and thumb drive, investigators found hundreds of images of child pornography, including children being raped. The images were incorporated in slide shows that had been created between June 2009 and June 2010 and also included non-pornographic photos of Storm’s students at Stoller Middle School, said Gresham Det. Timothy Snider, who is assigned to the Multnomah County child abuse task force.

    By the time police came back to arrest him, Storm had left the country and did not return for seven months.”

  41. Rose says:

    p22 of the pleadings:  
    Imo I see raison d’etre of the two civil cases, in the civil cases LE/DA need not disclose any exculpatory evidence they have.

    Imo these avenues of litigation, rather than charging Terri, are 
    to avoid that disclosure.

    That tells me DA has some exculpatory evidence to conceal.  
    Also that this DA feels the end justifies the means.  Doesn’t 
    comport with many attorneys 
    professional ethics imo. 


  42. MockingbirdSings says:

    The Horman motion for abatement:

    It appears Bunch is taking the lead in this one. He mentions that the Grand Jury is still meeting (page 2).

    Their argument makes sense to me (a non-attorney) using the 6 balancing tests and the examples they gave. I would, however, like to see if there are case examples that conflict with the ones mentioned.

    Somewhere missing in all of this legal stuff, and about the “public interest” in particular, is the potential harm to children which could result from delaying any possible resolution to the mystery of Kyron’s disappearance. Where is the balance for that? What case example matches up in that respect? I believe, sadly, that Kyron is dead, but what if he weren’t? As I said in another post, who’s guarding his right to be found and returned home?

    As a member of the public, of course I want the 2 cases resolved in an organized and proper manner, of course I want individual rights preserved to the extent possible, of course I want the court’s business to be handled efficiently, and of course I can see the conflict between the 2 (or I suppose now, it’s 3) cases. I tend to think Rosenthal and DY said too much in their interview, but truly, who would not have known their intent anyway?

    Bunch says (page 23) “By refusing to testify, Horman will be deprived of the benefit her own evidence might produce”. Does this mean she is admitting to withholding evidence? (He didn’t say “testimony”.)

    But number one, as a member of the “public” in “public interest”, I want the lives of children protected. What judge can assure me that another child won’t disappear because of what we do not know and may choose to postpone finding out?

    If you look at the normal timeline for a civil suit, it could be as long as 2 years before it ever actually went to trial. If there is a 2-year abatement, that is actually 4 years.

    Frankly, I think if the judge were to turn down this abatement motion, and TH knows anything at all, and they stopped putting off the divorce hearing, Horman and Houze might start looking at the possibility of a plea bargain of some kind – at least there would be a lot more incentive.

    At least, the way I understand it, it appears the court can, if granted, cancel the abatement at any time for good cause if something changes.

  43. Rose says:

    Will Lea opine on abatement motion?

    This June spring a college’s transition counselor recommended Southern OR U to me.
    I had, before late 2010, promoted that school & begged my child to visit.
    My response to the counselor this time was hell no. She wanted me to explain.
    I threw out the first free association, something about a meth saturated society. The real truth is I think
    government leadership in Portland of both parties: mayor’s office, DA, public school Supt, sheriff office
    pretty much seems irremediably pitiful to me at the present time.
    like Agnew days in MD or Rendell days in PA or Daley Sr in Chicago.
    Just how I feel.

  44. Rose says:

    @MBS. by “the benefit” he means exculpatory evidence benefitting herself she could otherwise produce. If you take 5th, that means all of it, even exculpatory.
    re other childrens’ danger, if she did it, imo no other children are targets, except Kaine argued Kiara as target successfully it seems. Only under the Terri did it scenario are the children of Skyline safe.

  45. MockingbirdSings says:

    Rose says:
    July 25, 2012 at 10:35 pm
    @MBS. by “the benefit” he means exculpatory evidence benefitting herself she could otherwise produce. If you take 5th, that means all of it, even exculpatory.

    re other childrens’ danger, if she did it, imo no other children are targets, except Kaine argued Kiara as target successfully it seems. Only under the Terri did it scenario are the children of Skyline safe.

    So Rose – I understand the meaning of “exculpatory” and why it would benefit her either to show she is not guilty or had no criminal intent, and I get the 5th and why it’s important. What I don’t get is whether that statement in the motion indicates she actually HAS exculpatory evidence SHE could present if not for fear of incrimination, or whether it should be taken as just a standard hypothetical statement an attorney would include in the motion.

    I know my question probably sounds a bit frustrating to someone who knows the law well, but at least it’s a sincere question. It’s why you have to go to law school rather than just read the books and pass the tests, IMO.

    I reviewed “exculpatory” to be sure I had it right.
    Evidence, such as a statement, tending to excuse, justify, or absolve the alleged fault or guilt of a defendant.

    Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary:
    Evidence that points toward a defendants innocence. Prosecutors are required to automatically hand over such evidence to the defense, even if the defense doesnt request it, and a showing that this rule was violated can sometimes result in a conviction being reversed.
    August 19, 2010, 5:15 pm

    Regarding danger to children – maybe Blink will respond as well –
    I wrote:
    “Somewhere missing in all of this legal stuff, and about the “public interest” in particular, is the potential harm to children which could result from delaying any possible resolution to the mystery of Kyron’s disappearance. Where is the balance for that? What case example matches up in that respect? I believe, sadly, that Kyron is dead, but what if he weren’t? As I said in another post, who’s guarding his right to be found and returned home?”

    I guess I didn’t word that as well as I should have. What I was trying to say was that, IMO, after the 6 balance tests there should be a number 7 which is the assessment of the likelihood of potential harm to other victims (not necessarily Skyline School children). I know that’s wishful thinking the way our justice system seems to work.

    Who is to say that IF Terri were responsible for what happened to Kyron, she would never target another child in the future under certain circumstances? I wouldn’t say that about any other parent or parent figure who killed a child.

    Blink is quite sure Kyron didn’t leave with Terri. If Terri knows who that person is, and enlisted his help, then she did so BECAUSE that person was willing to assist her or personally harm a child, which means that person is a continuing danger. If she was not involved at all, and that could be proved, it certainly leaves someone loose out there who could harm another child.

    Two to four years is a long time to hold our breath and hope another child does not become a victim due to our delays.

  46. Rose says:

    @MBS. It’s virtually impossible to affirmatively provide a negative (I didn’t conspire wi X who says I did, or I didn’t conspire with X who is an unknown person). That’s why in a criminal case the burden of proof is on the government accuser. And, the accuser doesn’t have even a circumstantial case. Just a vindictive landscaper with whom she’s had conflict she documented (911s).

  47. Rose says:

    that’s prove, not provide, sorry.

  48. Rose says:

    @MBS one of Burch’s points is the civil case is sniffing out her defenses for the criminal case. They’d be fools to make public those defenses in advance of the criminal case. You can infer she has sound defenses frim the fact she’s not been arrested.

  49. Idahogal says:

    TH has asked for 2 year delay of civil suit:

    I don’t understand all of this legal BS. Waiting to hear from others smarter than I on this.

  50. Rose says:

    Waiting to hear from Lea.

    Color me cynical, but Shrunk may have no deeper purpose
    in the civil suits than to burn through her assets
    such that she can no longer pay for an effective criminal defense.

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