Kyron Horman Disappearance Series Part I: Desiree Young V Terri Horman- Civil As An Oxymoron
Civil As An Oxymoron
Desiree Young, Kyron’s biological mother and arguably the bravest soul in recent memory as far as the frantic and grieving mom’s of missing children’s set is concerned, believes her youngest son has been kidnapped by Terri Horman.
Or that she arranged for same by some unknown party and is demanding his location or the location of his remains.
Her recent civil suit filed by Eldon Rosenthal makes these direct allegations against the woman that by her own admission, she entrusted with the care of her toddler son in 2003.
Her suit is demanding $10 million dollars with a reservation to amend to include punitive damages later. The complaint is 5 pages long, or apparently $2million a page.
Last month a ruling by Judge Harry Kantor denying an abatement motion will allow the suit to proceed, for now.
The decision was widely seen as a win for Desiree Young in her tenacious quest to seek answers in the disappearance of her son Kyron from The Skyline School on June 4th, 2010. Headlines throughout the region and the evening talking head regulars praised the Judge’s decision for the Mom who has had no previous success in very public campaigns to engage Terri Horman’s cooperation in the investigation.
The legal community however, not so much. The decision to move the case forward relied largely on the fact that although it was patently clear from Ms. Young’s filing and subsequent public commentary by her and counsel Eldon Rosenthal that she alleges Horman has committed criminal acts resulting in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
Terri Horman has neither been declared a suspect by police nor has she been indicted by a grand jury who continues to meet on the case.
Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, learned about the suit filed by his former wife by a member of the media seeking comment on his reaction to it. He has not been made a party to the civil action although he was awarded primary physical custody of the couple’s son in March, 2004.
I count myself with the thousands that want this aggrieved Mother and Father to locate their child regardless of the outcome.
That said, it is ridiculous to think a woman whose criminal attorney has advised her not to respond to a twice- renewed restraining order precluding her from seeing her now 3 year old daughter is going to utter a syllable outside of assertion of her 5th amendment rights during any deposition she is compelled to participate in.
On June 4, 2010, Terri Horman, acting alone or in concert with others, intentionally kidnapped Kyron Horman from ; Skyline Elementary School. Kyron has not been seen or heard from by either of his parents since prior to Terri Horman taking Kyron to school that morning.
Did Not Miss The Memo
The Honorable Harry Kantor penned an accompanying order memorandum to his ruling following oral arguments on August 18th, It is worthy of the Honorable Belvin Perry’s stamp of approval- with the exception of course that is does not contain the phrase, “no earthly idea.”
It did however; contain the first ever direct statement that Terri Horman is a suspect in the investigation, a PRIME suspect, no less. In pertinent part:
“..The focus of the defendant’s motion is to stop the prosecution of this civil case while an ongoing active criminal investigation into both young Kyron Horman’s disappearance in 2010 and a murder-for-hire plot against Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, is pending, so that the defendant (Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and Kaine’s wife) is not required to decide whether to exercise her constitutional rights against self-incrimination under the United States and Oregon Constitutions before it is necessary to do so in any criminal prosecution which may follow the investigation. The plaintiff is Kyron ‘smother. The defendant is a prime suspect in the investigation …” (emphasis added by me)
Interestingly, Judge Kantor takes it upon himself to declare Terri Horman a prime suspect in BOTH the ongoing criminal investigations of a murder for hire plot and Kyron’s disappearance.
While it is a fair statement to say that both sides agree that Terri Horman is the subject or focus via “laser pointer” of the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance and her attorneys used that point to support abatement. At no time and in no document or filing has either side said Terri Horman was a prime suspect of anything? Where does Judge Kantor come by such information?
For his Honor to state his concern over tainting a jury pool, and then to allege, or divulge, as it were, that Terri Horman is a prime suspect in a murder for hire plot in an ongoing criminal investigation- is he privy to such information from some alternative source that is not contained on the record?
A request for any exparte information should be forthcoming. Where is the conversation with District Attorney Rod Underhill or his office read into the record? It has not been.
Lea Conner, Washington Family Attorney and BOC legal analyst sees Judge Kantor’s take differently:
“…The judge is not referring exclusively to the Desiree Young lawsuit.
Kaine Horman claimed in his TRO petition that law enforcement provided him with probable cause to believe that Terri Horman had attempted to hire someone to kill him.
He again made the same claim in papers filed after the TRO petition (specifically alleging that Terri was sexting the landscaper who she wanted to murder him, then allegedly sexted Michael Cook).
Kaine reiterated his allegations a third time in papers he filed last fall in response to Terri Horman’s motion for parenting time.
Kaine once again claimed Terri Horman tried to hire a hit man when he sought to renew the restraining order in 2011. There was an additional line added to the renewal, and though it sounded like something new, it was just Kaine reiterating the same allegations.
The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment applies to criminal matters, and it does not allow prior testimonial statements of witnesses to be admitted where the witness has since become unavailable. Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004).
Here, we are talking about a civil matter. The Confrontation Clause and the holding of Crawford do not apply to civil matters or other non-criminal proceedings…”
In Oregon, a special appearance is used by a party who wishes to vacate an unauthorized proceeding without consenting to jurisdiction of the court:
A “special appearance” is made by a party when he or his attorney seeks to obtain from the court an order vacating some proceeding which, it is insisted, has been undertaken by the adverse party in an unauthorized manner; such an appearance being thus limited to prevent conferring jurisdiction of the person. Again, Ms. Conner’s thoughts:
…” The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the judge’s point was the last couple of pages that says Terri Horman’s lawyers cannot make any motion without appearing. This is to say that a special appearance allows a challenge as to the validity of a specific action, but it does not otherwise allow an attorney (nor a party) to file other types of motions or to seek other relief, as was done here.
The abatement that the attorneys sought would act as a protective order. Abatement is not a challenge to the propriety nor validity of the underlying action. As such, Terri Horman’s lawyers needed to appear before filing a motion as to the issue of abatement. ..”
Judge Kantor chose the teamwork approach in an adversarial proceeding, and instructed Terri Horman’s counsel they will need to file an appearance. He attempts to present the case’s challenges to both sides and seeks input as to how best to protect the rights of the defendant, in pertinent part:
The court does not have any particular length of time for this delay in mind at this juncture. lnstead, the court would like the parties and their lawyers to consult and confer about the following and then report back:
1. Should the court require the defendant to file an answer to the complaint which admits or denies the plaintiffs allegations or simply allow the defendant to litigate as if she denied those allegations? If so, by when and for how long?
2. Should the plaintiff be required to establish “reasonable suspicion” or “probable cause” (as defined in criminal cases) that the defendant has done what is alleged through other evidence before the defendant is required to answer oral or written deposition questions under oath?
3. Should the plaintiff be required to serve written deposition questions, which would be subject to court review upon proper motion, and review the answers before taking the defendant’s oral deposition?
Once the court has the parties’ answers to these questions, I will meet with the lawyers to form a schedule and plan for this case. Further briefing and hearings may be required as well.
Defacto Suspect Is Defacto Parent?
History is rife with hellacious stories of parents killing their own children, their own families, and ones parent status should not be considered a reason to exclude anyone. In fact, as we all know, it is 90% more likely that Kyron disappeared due to the actions of a parent or family member and all law enforcement investigators begin a parallel investigation of all with access or motive, from the start.
A hypotenuse only exists within a right triangle. This case is anything but.
Horman, through her attorneys has already certified she will protect her right not to incriminate herself and considering one of the remedies Ms. Young is seeking is that she does just that- who chaired the risk vs. reward strategy meeting in this case in its current form?
In Horman’s favor, Oregon law is one of few in the country that specifies that a jury cannot take the fact that she pleads the fifth and ostensibly cannot or is very limited in her ability to defend her case into its deliberation considerations.
Has Desiree Young been appropriately prepared for the litany of possibilities that might arise out of this filing?
Like, say, a counter suit or an effective defense resulting in a dismissal with prejudice? An award for Horman’s attorney fees ?
For the record, for those of you cringing while reading that remark, I cringed at writing it.
When someone files a purposefully vague claim against another accusing them of a criminal act (s) they will be beyond its tensile strength to support, many possibilities of alternative defense strategies become available to the DEFENDANT.
Ms. Young’s complaint made criminal accusations in a civil action that all agree parallel current criminal investigations. However, even if Horman was in a position to defend herself without violating her fifth amendment right, as it is written- the complaint is not even “answerable”.
“I believe we will be able to prove what happened in this case,”- Eldon Rosenthal
Oh? The preponderance of evidence limbo -stick notwithstanding, let’s be honest, it is going to be virtually impossible to prove Kyron was removed from the state with all parties including law enforcement openly stating they have no idea where he is or how he got there.
Outside of that conviction for first degree custodial interference which certainly seems unlikely because nobody is facing such a charge to date, the prima facie reverts to finding Terri Horman liable on the other counts in civil court.
According to legal analyst Bruce McCain, who has closely been following the Kyron case, the suit will be “near impossible to prove, especially when an element of second degree custodial interference is that Terri acted with the intent to hold Kyron permanently of for a protracted period of time.”
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has never even classified Kyron’s case as abduction and he is only listed as a missing person on the FBI’s site. Typically crimes need a crime scene, and the Skyline School has certainly never been declared one and astonishingly has not been named a party to this suit. More on that in part 2 of this series.
In summary, Desiree Young is making three allegations. She is claiming either on her own or with help, Terri kidnapped her son Kyron Horman from the Skyline School. Desiree’s own words contradict this claim as to kidnapping:
“She dropped him off that day, but that’s all we know.” – Desiree Young
Desiree is also claiming the intentional infliction of emotional distress through feigning ignorance of the events of June 4, 2010, lying to investigators and lying to the media. Not one quote, not one example is offered in support of this allegation. How can one possibly prove intentional infliction if such statements were never actually uttered to the plaintiff? How does lying to an investigator , if in fact she did, about unknown subject matter, equate to probable cause of the allegation?
What is it’s nexus directly to Desiree Young exactly? Not having the answer in place for that is going to spawn more than a few mutterings of “bad faith” at the bar meetings next month.
Tony Young has stated that as a collegial gesture, he was NOT given any information about the specifics in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance and has publicly only said “If not Terri than who?”
Peter Bunch called the suit law enforcements stalking horse. Judge Kantor seems to agree with Bunch that due to the protection of the ongoing criminal case, that participation from any law enforcement personnel will be non-existent. Rosenthal seems to be more optimistic in his deuces tecum prowess, apparently.
Bruce McCain, could not be more on point. The burden to prove the allegations against Terri Horman rest squarely on her accuser. MCSO recently participated in the filming of Americas Most Wanted, and have spoken publicly about the case on numerous occasions. They have allegedly provided information directly to Desiree Young and Kaine Horman, which is now a matter of public record.
Deposing a law enforcement officer or twenty prior to the possible future criminal filing against your client with the knowledge none of the information has gleaned an indictment to date, is the equivalent to the key to the evidence locker of the case. Will it be a game of quash for all? Certainly, and Bunch has already said so.
“I have nothing to say about Terri Horman” Captain Jason Gates, MCSO
I have never seen Terri Horman give a recorded press interview. I am aware of no statute that exists to compel anyone to be honest with a member of the media on your doorstep seeking comment. ( although I might be in favor that as a card carrier- )
The scales of lady justice require balance for a reason. Glenn Close and Rose Byrne have already concluded the final season of Damages and I dare say those producers have more manufactured story line of fake criminal cases then this very real situation could deliver for fiction-even.
If Terri Horman, through counsel, decides to file for a dismissal of the suit, or defend it in PART- as it appears Judge Kantor has already laid the groundwork for, what should we expect?
You have to respect a judge who is coaching from the bench, and he did.
Technically speaking, under Oregon law, Terri Horman was Kyron Horman’s defacto or psychological parent. The “best interest” standard is a relatively low threshold in this case. Please see review courtesy of Kramer Associates regarding “After Troxel.” (link : http://www.kramer-associates.com/mkgrandparentsrightsaftertroxel.pdfKramer Associates)
I asked Atty Lea Conner to weigh in on this possible third party parent strategy to challenge standing of Ms. Young’s suit, as well as any impeachment or award matrix issues :
“…Third party custody issues are tricky in any case. You need to refer to Troxel v, Granville – Troxel is a US Supreme Court ruling that a parent’s rights trump those of third parties.- One Oregon case cited (Wilson v. Wilson) is particularly devastating to Terri Horman. In Wilson, the court found that custody must be awarded to the mother in order to preserve a sibling relationship between the natural child of the mother and the common child (AKA “joint child”) of both parties-
The Wilson case is interesting, because potentially, a parent contemplating divorce with contested custody might want to discourage the relationship between natural child of one party in order to prevent the natural parent from gaining an advantage in obtaining custody. Could Terri Horman argue that this was Kaine’s motive in sending James to live in Roseburg in early 2010? (Kaine denies sending James away, and claims that it was Terri’s fault that he moved. James and his father in Roseburg have made statements indicating James and Kaine had ongoing conflict, which contradicts Kaine’s version of events and supports Terri Horman’s claims.)”
The Troxel case has affected laws in virtually all of the states, and has significantly reduced previously recognized rights of grandparents, step-parents and psychological parents in favor of birth parents.
Why Terri Horman may be in a position to defend her relationship with Kyron, but not as a parent per se:
5. Wilson and Wilson, 184 Or App 212 (2002), CA A113524. Custody of stepchild awarded to stepfather, along with parties’ joint child, reversed. Under Troxel, custody of the mother’s natural child must be awarded to fit birth mother and because of the sibling relationship, custody of the parties’ joint child must also be awarded to mother. [See Case Note 20 discussion below for Court of Appeals decision on remand from Supreme Court.]
Interestingly, I note that nobody brought up the fact that Desiree once accused Kaine Horman of at least the possibility that he was capable of kidnapping her sons, and was granted a restraining order based on the potential recognized by the court in a similar possible offense.
“.. our Lives are no longer private. Investigators are going to want very detailed information of our personal lives..” Tony Young, Kyron Horman’s stepfather.
What will absolutely add insult to injury in this case will be the fact that in order to indirectly defend Terri Horman, her lawyers will need to vilify Desiree young in front of a jury. They will have to remove the more than deserving, grieving and egregiously wronged Mother’s invisible halo, and they have enough to work with. There is no way around it as unfair as it seems, it is what it is.
EDIT NOTE: In August 1995 a woman with the same name as Desiree Davidson was living with a man who was a convicted felon and the target of more than a few secret indictments a few years earlier. She filed a Family Abuse Protection Complaint against him for assault and he was arrested on a separate felony charge a week later. David Roy Davis may be connected to an entirely different Desiree, but the record came through on a search under Ms. Young’s date of birth as well. The point is, their will be lots of digging on everyone.
In March of 2004, Desiree Young claimed that serious liver problems from an undisclosed, non- FDA approved medicine required her to move to Canada for treatment. She relinquished physical custody of both her sons under the guise that she would not be required to now pay child support as filed in the stipulations of the respective cases. Ms. Young maintained a Seattle, WA address at that time and the last custody order states a very different custody arrangement than what Desiree has mentioned publicly.
If she was seeing Kyron more than once a month, then it was by verbal agreement with Kaine’s approval but this is yet again an unfortunate example of impeachment possibility. The “seeking treatment “details will unfortunately be public information that she has refused to discuss. You get the idea.
Desiree has also admitted asking Kaine to consider modifying the custody arrangement and allowing Kyron to go live with her. Kaine said no and would not discuss it further, but Terri Horman was in favor of it.
Both Desiree and Kaine have conceded Kyron had a few issues of concern in school the prior part of the year, in fact they went so far as to say they were concerned their reaction to it with him might have played a part in his disappearance.
How is it that if having issues at school can be a helpful argument to a non-custodial parent seeking custody modification that nobody considered that Terri was actually working to support Desiree’s possible case?
Kaine has confirmed that they had a discussion about a doctor appointment for Kyron, so this possibility has corroboration.
For the past 2+ years Desiree Young has done everything conceivable to progress answers in the disappearance of her son and I applaud her for that. I am equally as concerned about the emotional toll this lawsuit will take on her as I have been about the effects of the loss of her son.
Catch as Catch Can
Omitted entirely in any coverage of Judge Kantor’s order and memo announcement or previous reactions to the civil filings, is the fact that if Terri Horman is or was involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman, she is about to get a front row seat to the case against her without saying a word.
Under current criminal procedure in Oregon, once a person is indicted, the defendant receives little more than the actual indictment order. This is usually under seal until an arrest warrant is executed, but it does not contain witnesses, testimony, evidence or any hint at the content that was discussed since the grand jury began reviewing the case and the triers of fact rendered a verdict to indict the party.
In this parallel discovery minefield, arguably tantamount to a mock trial in front of a defacto suspect, the plaintiff will be forced to compel witnesses that have testified before the grand jury, any evidence they have been made aware of, and in some cases they have not, and all of this essentially erodes the sanctity of the grand jury advantage over a criminal defendant. In particular, Oregon uses the grand jury proceeding as many other states use a preliminary hearing. And btw, this is Stephen Houze’s dominion.
While Bunch’s motion for abatement indicates police will refuse to turn over documents or materials pointing to guilt or exculpation, they simply cannot assist the plaintiff without assisting the defense as the discovery is reciprocal across the board. That said, I would expect District Attorney Rod Underhill to seek protection orders against releasing any information classified as part of the case file of an active criminal investigation.
How will that work if the majority of information is clearly being conveyed in an ad hoc method of “you can refer to it in your filings but we will not produce it for your use at a civil trial?”
The reality is that if Terri Horman is involved in the disappearance of Kyron Horman in any capacity this suit as it is structured in the instant matter will do more to assist her defense team than it will ever produce incriminating and usable intelligence to indict her.
It will not provide any detail as to Ky’s whereabouts that MCSO does not already know.
I can hear the protagonists in my ear already- but the scope of criminal subpoena power and reach is intensely more narrow than that of the civil standard so won’t this be an opportunity to glean information LE did not have access to?
Who in their right mind believes that nine multi-disciplined Federal and State Law Enforcement Agencies including those tasked with measures and responsibility of our National Security did not or do not have access to every shred of data a civil order can produce?
The Honorable Judge Kantor requested a position by the District Attorney and invited Underhill to attend the hearing, whereby DA Underhill stated he had no position on the matter.
Kantor is allowing the case to move forward absent an indictment or an official position from the DA, but I predict that is a temporary decision. The DA and MCSO is absolutely going to have a position when the motions to compel discovery arrive by the wheelbarrow followed closely by the freightliner full of FOIA requests. Once it is released for a civil trial it is releasable to the public.
What- No Joinder?
Lastly, as Kyron’s Father, it is odd that Kaine Horman would not be a party to this action. If the goal was a behind the scenes tag team to exhaust the funds of Terri Horman over simultaneous cases I sincerely hope that a considerable amount of time was spent on the possibility that they may be waking the sleeping giant. Desiree Young has an online donation site soliciting funds for her legal fees which injury cases are usually taken on a contingency basis and Kaine Horman has everything to gain by not dividing his assets with his estranged wife in November, when the abatement is lifted.
The fact that a recently retired Civil Attorney who has international homes is willing to come out of retirement to take this case would make me very nervous. Mark H. Wagner signed on yesterday.
If Terri Horman has nothing to hide as it relates to Kyron’s disappearance, this is her one shot to get her life back and clear her name.
The public pendulum will never be swinging so slowly to hear from her why it should stop- as it is right now.
If she was involved, in any way, this civil case is going to unearth the unintentional mistakes and snafus of the well meaning mean and women in law enforcement who have worked this case. It will render it nearly impossible to ever prosecute her successfully whether Kyron is ever located or not. This legal team will have at least 3 plausible alternative suspects, have the jury blaming law enforcement and believing Kyron is alive somewhere and may be better off.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
It may give a grief-stricken Mother a $10 Million judgment she can never collect, but as Peter Bunch said in his argument, it will not give her the answers she seeks.
I terrified my interrogation subjects, but I never got intelligence.
Astute. True. Maddening for all that are interested in this case but of course begs the question-
If tortboarding will not work, at some point, does it make sense to start over with a fresh perspective of elimination versus inclusion?
Terri Horman was the immediate suspect in a disappearance and an alleged murder for hire plot where there are gads of comments and facebook images of a happy family and very alive target- Kaine Horman.
When confronted by her alleged accomplice, Rodolpho “Rudy” Sanchez directly in a failed sting rivaling RENO 911- she actually called 911.
The sting was heard by more than a few scanner enthusiasts, as reported exclusively by BOC(insert link)
Why was it decided Terri Horman was the mariticidic filicide in a flash?
And why were all other avenues excluded almost as quickly as Jung opened the window for the scarab?
Coming Soon- Part 2
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1. Rose says:
September 21, 2012 at 11:46 am
If this were a “search for Kyron” funding to pay search teams, a “PI for Kyron”, a lawyer advocate (guardian ad litem effort) for Kyron with LE, and so on I think significantly more would have come in,
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I couldn’t agree with you more. I am one of the few people who have contributed to gofundme/kyronhorman and I will continue to do so. I do this because I support Desiree’s right to feel that she is doing everything in her power to find her son.
How scary…… http://www.oregonlive.com/lake-oswego/index.ssf/2012/09/clackamas_county_authorities_s_1.html
Off topic, but the area peaked my interest…..
Seems kind of unusual that a lot of fitness places are close together- -all within a block if you google.(Not that it might mean anything except coincidence) Don’t know where the guy they arrested worked before, don’t know if LE sat on him and squished him, he might give up a PERV who runs in the same circles that may have known KH and/or TMH.
Here’s what I have, kind of assumed that PERVs run in the same circles, know each other, etc.:
http://www.oregonlive.com/north-of-26/index.ssf/2012/09/authorities_concerned_bethany.html
Authorities concerned Bethany man, held on $2.25 million bail, could have more sex crime victims
Published: Wednesday, September 19, 2012, 6:50 PM Updated: Wednesday, September 19, 2012, 7:10 PM
Investigators are concerned that a Bethany man held in jail on dozens of sex crimes related to the abuse of two children could have more victims, the Washington County Sheriff’s Office reported.
Stephen Webb, 44, of Bethany, is lodged in the Washington County Jail on 40 sex crime charges, said Sgt. Bob Ray, a sheriff’s office spokesman. His bail is set at $2.25 million.
Ray said Webb worked for Beaverton’s Gear Up Sports, a youth sports gear business. Investigators, Ray said, are concerned about the contact Webb could have had with children at work.
Xtreme Edge 16365 Northwest Twin Oaks Drive, Beaverton, OR
Gear Up Sports located: 16205 NW Bethany Ct Ste 114, Beaverton, OR 97006
Also on NW Bethany Ct, very close to Gear Up:
Beaverton Cross Fit
Oregon Gymnastics Academy
Cypress Marketing Group
@Concerned Citizen says:
September 21, 2012 at 11:21 am
Yes, the Wall of Hope is located at The Edge Fitness because that’s where Kaine works out and his friend is the owner. He still works out there often. I see his truck parked there quite a bit. I believe DDS and Terri met when it was still a 24 Hr. Fitness. It was bought out and turned into The Edge. The NEW 24 Hr. Fitness is on Waterhouse and Terri had a memebership to both places. The video showing Kaine and Terri coming out of the gym in the early days of Kyron’s disappearance was taken at the New 24 Hour.
Not sure how you connect the new arrest of the Perv in Beaverton to the Edge…..???
Can someone bring me up to speed. I try my hardest to follow this case, but forget what is the significance of the boiler room? Why do some of you think that is where Kyron was removed from the school? Or maybe this will be covered in part 2 about the school…..
erose says:
September 21, 2012 at 1:11 pm
@MBS, The letter reads that the PD of TY sent two honor guards to the funeral. Someone previously asked about TY. I think it neither proves nor disproves whether or not he attended, but verifies that Medford PD participated. Sometimes I post the link and see what people think, I like the input, without any influence.
———————
I know what you mean about input. The 2 honor guards were named in the report as was the one motorcycle escort. If Tony went, I assume he would have gone on his own since he wasn’t one of the 3 assigned reps being thanked. However, I don’t think he did based on early statements. It doesn’t make sense for Terri to drive Kyron to Eugene to be picked up if Tony was already in Lake Oswego. Of course, I have always wanted him to be in Medford when the school called Desiree since I cannot imagine what a horrible trip that would have been for a mother driving alone and so worried about her child.
http://www.nrtoday.com/article/20100707/REGIONALNEWS/100709829
July 7th, 2010
MEDFORD – During his many visits to Southern Oregon over the years, Kyron Horman enjoyed playing at Medford’s Fichtner-Mainwaring Park and camping with his mother and stepfather.
Kyron’s biological mother, Desiree Young, and stepfather, Tony Young, planned to see Kyron the evening of June 4, the day the 7-year-old disappeared in Portland.
“He’d been asking me to take him fishing for a while,” Tony Young said through tears during a press conference Tuesday at the Medford Police Department. “I had bought him a fishing pole for Christmas.”
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2012359358_missingboy15.html
Originally published Wednesday, July 14, 2010 at 6:54 PM
Desiree Young has said Terri Horman was supposed to drive Kyron to Eugene on the day he disappeared to turn him over to her and Tony Young to spend the weekend in Medford.
OS 6 has me a little lost also
The remark about a troll was on FB missing Kyron
I believe
I was in the comments when I read it
Something about the donations
I have to download stuff I did have before
It is confusing
If it is there some one else will read it
@MBS, fwiw I always had the impression TY was in the car with DY on the way from Medford. Don’t know if that was an assumtion on my part, who, like you, did not want her to have made that drive without him, or if I picked it up through one of the interviews.
Actually I wish I had waited for my new phone
Instead of updating to OS 6
Which really has confused me on FB and elsewhere
But I did review a lot of you tube on Kyron
And found it interesting
But found nothing that raised a red flag
I also wish I had never read GLP as it causes me to constantly
To wonder where stuff came from
If I had it to do over I would stay away from that place
And I hope they get Erik Meiser soon
Knowing he is around is scary
@mbs. i don’t bank on the Intel system. Computer nerds can get around it.
I bank on Blink saying Kaine was not involved. Her endorsement is all the credit he gets
from me.
I do not believe that Kaine was directly involved, but I cannot say with certainty that it might not have been someone attached to him or his lifestyle choices. I really don’t see how anyone could exclude that 100%. In my mind, if lack of evidence to support a theory is an exclusionary benchmark than someone better explain how TH is still on the front burner.
Because I do not believe KH was directly involved, you have never seen me present the argument that this incident could be directly connected to him, but in the tank I have, and it is compelling.
It is just an investigative analysis we go through, and I may include in part 3, not sure.
B
B
Here is info if you are not local
http://m.kptv.com/w/main/story/73709953/
@Malty. You are right. Every $x&$ appl says update.
(thank goodness I’m grandfathered unlimited data.)
thank goodness BOC is stable & has not changed.
It’s all some way for appl cos to make $ I figure.
anyway gofundme was redesigned recently. It’s
different and not so simple layout.
I understand DY asking $ for a suit.
even tho ahe’s not a nonprofit, to me she can
communicate a clear goal to potential donors.
I do not understand the other
bio’s agenda & intended expenditures even tho he organized an
IRS-qualified nonprofit. he buys more trinkets to sell.
Pays for registrations at car shows. She buys an attorney
to sue Terri, realistic counterproductive, or not, it’s clear what
her objective is. He communicates no objective except “awareness”,
I kind of agree with what Desiree said about Kaine’s choices
And behavior
When she went on her own
RedRose says:
September 21, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Seems kind of unusual that a lot of fitness places are close together- -all within a block if you google.(Not that it might mean anything except coincidence) Don’t know where the guy they arrested worked before, don’t know if LE sat on him and squished him, he might give up a PERV who runs in the same circles that may have known KH and/or TMH.
Snip….
Xtreme Edge 16365 Northwest Twin Oaks Drive, Beaverton, OR
Gear Up Sports located: 16205 NW Bethany Ct Ste 114, Beaverton, OR 97006
Also on NW Bethany Ct, very close to Gear Up:
Beaverton Cross Fit
Oregon Gymnastics Academy
Cypress Marketing Group
*******************************
I know all of these locations as I am local but I’m still not getting your connection from Stephen Webb to the The Edge. Two of the businesses on your list are kid related sports (Gear up and OGA) Two are adult related work out facilities (Edge and Crossfit, yes I know there are kids in some of the photos at Crossfit but it’s generally an adult place) and Cypress Marketing Group is a real estate business.
Generally, we are pretty active here and the Bethany area is full of families so workout facilities and kids sports are very common.
Altho I do not understand DY ‘s suit against
Terri I have high hopes it will bring some kind of truth
Forward from some one
Even if Terri never talks
http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=1002
Sex Offender Wanted Out of Arizona Arrested in Klamath County by US Marshals, OSP and Klamath Falls Police (Photo) – 09/21/12
@Malty says:
September 21, 2012 at 8:40 pm
“And I hope they get Erik Meiser soon
Knowing he is around is scary”
————————————————
Me too Malty. There are a lot of police cruising around in the WL/LO area.
I just stumbled across this article. Good grief, this is horribly sickening. What is going on in this world?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49101466/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/
‘Lawless’: US seeks to end abuse of tribe’s children
Members of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe say sexual violence against children on the reservation is common and barely concealed
I do not believe that Kaine was directly involved, but I cannot say with certainty that it might not have been someone attached to him or his lifestyle choices. I really don’t see how anyone could exclude that 100%. In my mind, if lack of evidence to support a theory is an exclusionary benchmark than someone better explain how TH is still on the front burner.
Because I do not believe KH was directly involved, you have never seen me present the argument that this incident could be directly connected to him, but in the tank I have, and it is compelling.
It is just an investigative analysis we go through, and I may include in part 3, not sure.
B
*********************************************
Blink,
Would love love love to hear your tank talk, another possibility that could potentially progress this case,
You know, I asked about a year ago and to this day it drives me nuts, WHY and to WHOM is referring with the constant “WE” statements?? (him and Kiara?)
What the heck is going on with RS? Is RS his real name? Is his location known to LE? Is it true that the woman who left with her children, really Rudy’s wife? Will he be available when it is time for him to be deposed?
The MFH plot is what IMO started the intense belief of many that Terri must be responsible for Kyron’s disappearance. What if he made the whole thing up to cover his backside or vengence against Terri for what she did in front of his wife? Rudy’s story was the sole basis for Kaine to obtain a RO and file for divorce. Rudy’s story has caused Terri to be ostracized by her friends and community, made her (in the eyes of many) the prime suspect with regards to Kyron, and contributed to why she hasn’t been able to see her daughter in two years. LE quickly embraced Rudy’s story and then set up a (failed) sting, told Kaine they believed his story, allowed him to use their information to obtain his RO keep it abated for two years.
What proof (a polygraph?) of a legitimate MFH plot did Rudy give LE that would make them believe this story enough to literally destroy someone’s life? Beyond destroying Terri’s life, if Rudy’s story isn’t true, LE has taken Rudy’s statement and has seemingly conducted a one-way investigation.
For those of you who read my posts, you have probably noticed I jump from one side of the fence to the other.. Today, I’m feeling an intense need to know the truth about the the MFH plot. Not just an angry flippant comment like “I wish Kaine was dead” but a true honest to God “I want you(Rudy)to find me someone willing to kill my husband for money” conversation.
People are super active in Portland and that’s a pretty central location for everyone in the suburbs.
But there was an employee of Gear it Up who was just arrested this past week for molesting boys. At least two have come forward and they believe more victims are out there.
Blink, I would like to see that included in Part 3. I don’t think any stone should be left unturned until Kyron is back with those who love him. If ppl close to him (or his family)- not totally random – are involved in any way, it needs to be looked at.
This website has a lot of very conscientious researchers and they might be able to add something new.
@Rose says: September 21, 2012 at 9:10 pm
Because I do not believe KH was directly involved, you have never seen me present the argument that this incident could be directly connected to him, but in the tank I have, and it is compelling.
It is just an investigative analysis we go through, and I may include in part 3, not sure.
B
@Kimberly. I kind of thought the royal “we” Kaine uses
referred to him perceiving himself as an ego mass with LE as it were
Erik Meiser has been captured…thank God.
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Sheriff-Significant-development-in-Lake-Oswego-murder-case-170849701.html
Venetia says:
September 22, 2012 at 10:32 am
http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=1002
..snip…
Out of concern that there may still be a number of unknown additional victims in the community, a photograph is being provided as well as McNEILL’s vehicle description, a 1987 Pontiac Bonneville 4 door, maroon in color, Washington License Plate (223 YJJ).
*****
Thanks for the link Venetia…Does anyone else remember the maroon vehicle mention
Lake Oswego murder suspect captured in Corvallis
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Sheriff-Significant-development-in-Lake-Oswego-murder-case-170849701.html
(Amazing how that works…..put out pictures of the suspect and wham! Yes, I’m being snarky.)
Link above, I meant to post this part (snipped):
“Erik John Meiser, 37, was wanted for the Monday morning murder of 57-year-old Fritz Hayes. He was considered armed and dangerous and a flyer had been circulated, along with his description on social media, alerting people to contact police immediately if they spotted him.
The public helped out with hundreds of tips, one of which helped police track Meiser to Corvallis, where he was arrested at gunpoint just after 2 p.m., Saturday, outside the Super 8 Motel at 407 2nd Street, according to officers.”
from the Megan Sharpton thread regarding Lake Oswego suspect:
A Texas Grandfather says:
September 22, 2012 at 8:43 pm
(snipped)
This guy is 6’5″ and only weighs 190 lbs? That is likely not true. Our oldest is just one-half inch less in height and at 190 lbs. he is just skin and bones. The normal weight for someeone that tall is 230 lbs. and that is not at all fat.
____
In response, weight and height ratio not so unusual . . . the FBI lists DAD as 6″3″, between 160-185lbs.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/additional/david-anthony-durham/view
@T. Ruth says:
September 22, 2012 at 8:45 pm
This is how SERIOUS they were to find “Erik John Meiser” -
[BBs from Portland to Salem - he was arrested in Corvallis-they were up the day they had his name]
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2012-09/624/57876/Meiser_FBI_WANTED_digital_Poster_Oregon.jpg&imgrefurl=http://pdxtraffic.blogspot.com/2012/09/ccso-photo-attached-meiser-wanted.html&usg=__mE53PFUIDYQJKmm3uBRT96-SwKw=&h=400&w=840&sz=211&hl=en&start=2&zoom=1&tbnid=n-GBIIV7q6MxGM:&tbnh=69&tbnw=145&ei=Z41eUM_SBuj-igK48oCADg&prev=/search%3Fq%3DErik%2BJohn%2BMeiser%2BBillboards,%2BPortland%2BOR%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1
ummm, correction 6’3″ . . . not 6″(inches)3″
MBS: Great idea about list.
29) What science fair projects could have been described as “cool electric ones?” And where were they located. Also, did anyone with an electric project remember Kyron coming to view it.
30) Was RS given a Polygraph? Is RS’ wife missing with his children.
@Kimberly… Kaine’s continual “we” statements always bugged the heck out of me too.
Thank God
http://m.kptv.com/w/main/story/73835503/
That EM had me really nervous to close to home
Now if OS6would give me back my email account
And sweet Kyron was home
Things would be perfect
I just thought the “we” was about Kaine and LE and his friends
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/09/fugitive_profiled_on_americas.html
*****
They have also caught the guy that was profiled on AMW with Kyron’s story. I mention again the maroon car. I know he is from Arizona yet he must be familiar with Oregon. Where was this creep June 2010?
http://sedonaeye.com/arizona-most-wanted-running-with-biker-gang
Could this guy be the mystery man in the picture at the Science Fair? We have wondered why Mr. Walsh pronounced Kyron’s name wrong etc…as a message or what ever. What if he decided to profile McNeill with Kyron’s story because it could be connected? At the time the show was aired speculation was that McNeill was in Washington not Oregon. I also think I remembered they said that McNeill liked to go to car shows. Did I dream that?
Did I miss part 2 somewhere, and if so would you so kindly point me in the right direction?
Nope, not published yet.
B
Morning, Blink,
If Skyline parents were to go to the powers that be at MCSO, DA’s office, FBI, etc, and demand to know information regarding a male that was seen with Kyron, including a description of the male because they either read or were told that such a male and a publicly unreleased description exist, what do you think the response would be from these LE entities to the Skyline parents?
Thank you.
I really don’t know wpg.
B
Ode says:
September 22, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Venetia says:
September 22, 2012 at 10:32 am
http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=1002
..snip…
Out of concern that there may still be a number of unknown additional victims in the community, a photograph is being provided as well as McNEILL’s vehicle description, a 1987 Pontiac Bonneville 4 door, maroon in color, Washington License Plate (223 YJJ).
*****
Thanks for the link Venetia…Does anyone else remember the maroon vehicle mention
************
I do recall that discussion, but don’t know if it was a rumor or fact. This guy sure gets around, WA license plate, busted in AZ, captured in OR. Hmmmmm?
This article makes it sounds like this guy was in AZ until 2011 and then fled to WA, but not sure:
http://www.prescottenews.com/news/current-news/item/20440-eric-george-mcneill-sought-by-ycso
“McNeill’s victims range in age from 4 to 17. McNeill’s offenses date back to 1972 with the most recent offense being reported in September of 2011. It is believed McNeill fled to Washington State in September of 2011 after the most recent offense was reported.”
***************
Gee, he’s only been doing this for 40 years or so. WTF?
http://www.q13fox.com/community/wamostwanted/featuredcases/kcpq-wmw-eric-mcneill-20120824,0,7216905.story
—ORIGINAL CASE 8/24/12—
There’s an all-out fugitive alert for accused child molester, Eric McNeill.
Detectives in Arizona say he’s running with a Washington biker club in the Algona area, on the King/Pierce County line.
Detectives say the biker crowd knows McNeill as ‘E-Z’, but what they probably don’t know is the crimes he’s accused of committing since 1972 – molesting girls as young as four, and up to 17 years old.
Detectives say McNeill took off from Yavapai County, Arizona last September, and came to Washington when one young victim reported the abuse. Dwight D’Evelyn with the Yavapai County Sheriff’s Office warns that ‘E-Z’ is likely to molest any underage girl he comes in contact with. “This case has reached the highest priority for us. I’ve had a chance to review some of the notes and reports, and these crimes are horrendous. They involve children that are known to the offender. He’s a very, very dangerous man when it comes to kids. We would hope that anyone who may know him, after hearing about these allegations of what we believe are facts, will be so disgusted they will call and turn him in immediately. It could be someone in this bike club, a family or a friend, and we would encourage them to call right away.” D’Evelyn and investigators are concerned there may already be more victims in Washington, and if so, they need them to know how important it is for them to come forward.
(snipped)
It appears his targets were girls.
Different LE Depts in charge of McNeil & Meiser hunt & arrests.
The Kyron case has been remarkable imo for how mcso has not worked with the public,
and the puzzle has even extended as to whether they photoshopped or were CYA for investigatory errors or for PPS.
In fairness, Some goodwilled public, though, have called in timewasting tips imo due to antipathy for TMH & DDS.
@Ode. I seem to remember maroon care behind school but only from blogs.
Here is why I cannot trust KH (yet):
1. His relationships seem to collapse quickly with him seeming to have little regard for the role of mothers in his young children’s lives, other than having a female occupy a spot in the house for domestic tasks. I have known divorced, non-custodial fathers who have stepped in to care for children after their ex-wives are in car accidents, or absolutely must travel for a time to keep a job or risk being unemployed (and thus affecting the child’s quality of life). I have seen a few of them step in when a custodial mother becomes a full time caregiver to a dying parent, and thus needs more time to work that task without little tykes running around underfoot. These are men who do not despise their ex’s and view them as absolutely vital to their children’s health and development. KH has not displayed this kind of behavior to me.
2. Pregnancy of his partners seems to trigger problems in his relationship with the mothers.
3. He has seemingly been immune — completely immune — to ANY close examination of his character, his frequently odd statements in public, or his obvious (to me, anyway) 180 turn on TH concerning initially suggesting he didn’t notice problems with her, to portraying her as an severely emotionally disturbed couch-sleeping drunk.
4. I am not sold on the “awareness” activity. There is something hinky about it all, and I can’t put my finger on it. The status of the “foundation” and the use of the funds do not scream “search for Kyron” to me.
5. His employer, and his profession, offer a base of skill sets and technical know-how concerning cyber life.
6. Rumors about the couple’s extracurricular activities, of a sexual nature, have been tossed about, and there is no proof that they were occurring. However, TH gets smeared as a slut for them, and KH doesn’t show a dent for them.
7. Custody issue concerning Kiara: At no time in my working life have I seen a custody fight that allowed one parent to completely trash, in all possible and inflammatory manners, the reputation of the other parent, presenting absolutely no proof of the accusations whatsoever (the RO is not proof of being a sodden drunk on the sofa every night, the MFH has never been confirmed to our knowledge) without ANYONE calling him on that. Not even TH’s lawyers called him on it. WTF?
8. If LE knows about SZ, why hasn’t KH indicated in any way that he knows too? Acknowledging a SZ publicly would HELP KH find Kyron, would it not?
9. All negative statements about TH have been strictly limited to 3rd parties and 2nd hand rumors. None of them — not one of them — has been proven true, or false.
10. DY’s letter to TH, read on JV’s show, hinted strongly that she had an inkling of something TH was experiencing with KH at home — based on DY’s own experiences with KH. And why hasn’t anyone jumped all over THAT??
11. KH has traveled to at least one foreign country that we know of (Israel).
12. His oddly unemotional email to Intel employees concerning not answering press questions directly: I understood the need to talk to Intel “legal,” because in his shoes, I would do the same thing with an employer to cover all ground involving leaks, misstatements, rumors, etc., coming from coworkers that could produce slander, libel, bad leads, etc. However, it was KH’s tone and mood in that email that has always bugged the crap out of me. It was lifeless and clinical.
13. DY’s very, very visible break with KH in late 2010. What are those “choices” that she could no longer tolerate even a civil association with him to help promote her son’s case? What would prompt someone to pull away from the custodial parent of your son, when your son has evaporated into thin air, and not communicate with him directly or in public appearances together for your child’s sake? Why was KH never, ever studied hard by media for that?
14. Media coverage of KH is, to me, nothing more than a human interest fan club.
15. Parents in other high profile missing child cases have been dragged through the public wringer each and every time. The slightest oddity in their words, body language, or actions after a child goes missing are in the laser’s light. KH has escaped all of that, yet has, for me, not presented himself as the “distraught” father/parent. To heck with his engineer’s personality, which I am familiar with from working with engineers years ago.
16. They once called Ronald Reagan the Teflon President, because criticism of substance, or scandals such as Arms-for-Hostages, about him or his administration seemed to just bounce off him for 8 years. In KH’s case, I am not seeing criticism bounce off him. I am seeing NO criticism, except occasionally via a few blog or forum comments by people who are not in a position to influence the case investigation. Why has there been absolutely (it seems to me) NO attempt, by anyone in the media, to seriously look at KH and his real life? This is done in so many other missing child cases.
17. KH had motive to remove Kyron from the risk of a custody fight with DY. Parents around the world and all over the U.S. have committed parental abductions to defy existing court orders on custody. Parents have left the country, such as the Sean Goldman case, and lied to children that a left-behind parent did not want them anymore. Custody can become the most vicious war between two adults, and yet, knowing as we do that KH did not want Kyron to return to DY’s primary custody, why has this NEVER been viewed as a motive to hide his son for a while?
18. His comments in one interview that have stuck to my eyeballs ever since — that finding Kyron might takes years. And then he rattled off a specific number of years. I have never, ever heard any parent of a missing child say anything like that. It was odd, it was too specific, and it just did not sound like a distraught parent. It sounded like a parent who is hiding information from the media and from the public — information that would indeed produce those “years” until Kyron is found.
19. A second motive can be considered from KH’s POV. He went through a divorce from DY and had to deal with child custody, and for a time, probably child support paid to her. His marriage tanking to TH or at least his perception that it’s tanking could be looked at differently now — he did not want to go through official channels to work out a divorce, settlements, child custody concerning Kiara, paying child support and or maintenance support to TH in the event they divorced. Everything was in HIS name. In a marriage, that bothers me A LOT. Scooting Kyron off someplace for a while and portraying TH as a slut, drunk, and murderess solves that problem all around.
20. There are those who completely dismiss the idea — no matter how improbably it seems — that KH is behind Kyron’s disappearance. Their dismissal of this idea is totally understandable. After all, what parent would arrange to NOT see his much-loved son, just to keep him from the mother and just to set up a second wife he’s also tired of now? Wouldn’t a parent kidnap a child and BE WITH that child on the run? That is what normally occurs with parental abductions, right? But, KH does not have Kyron. How on earth could anyone even suggest that he’d create an elaborate disappearance of his own child, but have no contact with his child, just to spite the women in his life? I can answer that: it could happen, period. ANYTHING in this world can happen. The most infamous crimes we’ve ever studied, or just casually read about in the news, have often contained utterly and never-heard-of-before motives and behaviors on the part of the people involved in them. Someplace please tell me that they did not find it improbable and utterly ridiculous to suggest that teenage girls would group up with a shorty, filthy man on a ranch and then obey him when he told them to cut up a pregnant actress and kill a couple in their homes with forks? Charles Manson’s case redefined “motive” and it redefined what people in specific and outrageous situations are capable of doing. Diana Downs shot her own kids. Parents KILL their kids — for reasons that the rest of us would address calmly and solve because we love our kids.
That’s my hinky radar for today, folks. Kyron is out there somewhere, and I have never excluded the most outrageous possibilities about this case. I won’t even eat crow if I’m someday (hopefully) proven stupidly wrong. This is about what I have seen NOT be an investigation that makes any sense, has not produced any results, has destroyed lives, and still, to this day, only one person is viewed as the suspect.
I suspect everyone now. It’s just not working any other way for me.
Read the Murder Business By Mark Fuhrman. He is 1000% spot on, and watch The Newsroom on HBO.
Your query as to the MSM and it’s handling of this coverage will be satisfied in full.
It blows. But it is what it is and why I will never be a reporter.
B
Ode says: September 23, 2012 at 8:28 am
It sounds like this particular creep liked girls.
Yavapai County Arizona Sheriff’s Office spokesman, Dwight D’Evelyn, warns that ”‘E-Z’ is likely to molest any underage girl he comes in contact with.”
—–
http://sedonaeye.com/arizona-most-wanted-running-with-biker-gang
Could this guy be the mystery man in the picture at the Science Fair? We have wondered why Mr. Walsh pronounced Kyron’s name wrong etc…as a message or what ever. What if he decided to profile McNeill with Kyron’s story because it could be connected? At the time the show was aired speculation was that McNeill was in Washington not Oregon. I also think I remembered they said that McNeill liked to go to car shows. Did I dream that?
We at BOC have discussed the possibility of DAD being somehow involved with Kyron’s disappearance. I’ve never quite understood if this is because his home was in the search grid combined with his “going off the deep end” or if there is more to it. I wonder if LE, Desiree and Kaine also see him as a possible POI or a connection in some way. If so, will members of DAD’s family or friends of his be deposed?
I am ready for NelMel’s query of MSM to be satisfied in full.
Sounds like orders from on high (ownership).
TY NM for drafting part of Part 3. Spot on.
I’ll get that Fuhrmann thing too.
You know media claimed Mrs Walsh was having an affair
with a live in member of house when son went poof. And media
claimed Mr W was a sex addict & he acknowledged. And they have
a wealthy life. And no one held/holds lifestyle
issues over them in Adam’s disappearance rightfully.
Kids aren’t kidnapped/killed by opportunistic Sexual Predators
due to parental lifestyle. Although lifestyle may open the door to a
predator. But a disappearance–in this case “removing”
the child reason Kaine hired, moved into his home, and married TMH–can be
seized by opportunists who no longer need that spouse. imo.
Oh wow, Word-girl needed on my last post! Crazy grammar errors! Sorry!
Skeeves that like little girls hang with skeeves that like little boys I’m sure. I also do not think we know where this particular man was in June 2010. These perverts share their victims. Who knows but you can not dismiss him or include him. I read another case today about a case from 1999 where a little girl went missing in Washington and it was a “maroon” car. Not only that her sister was approached by someone in June 2010 who tried to pick her up…followed her home…and drove by again in 20 minutes (I think)…It was a maroon car. A home in Washington was searched in relation to the 1999 abduction July of this year. I will go back and look but I think someone was arrested in June 2010 with child porn of his children that was linked to the bowling alley where the little girl went missing from….Egads a Bowling Alley makes me go hmmmmmmm
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8190.0