Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued  ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

 

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher,  she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court.  Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley,  who have since refused all local media requests,  would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide.  While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously,  her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph,  but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place,  Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher  as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.  Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then,  why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher:  I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons.  I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with.  He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc.  I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name.   As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order,  she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that?  I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No.  I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th.    I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue.  So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher:  They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding.  It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June,  and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March.  So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first,  I think that they really believed I was involved,  and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was,  and my vehicle never left, nor did I.  They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case,  they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect.  I never felt that way,  but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever,  but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did.  To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning.    I would ask like who do you mean,  because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this.  I was scared and it turned out it was good reason.   I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice?  Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that.  People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies.  I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative.  In fact,  Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly.  So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting.  I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No,  do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher:  I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house.  Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it,  yes, him.  Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through,  and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you.  If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information,  I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back ,  considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work?  What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney,  but to answer your question as to my opinion,  I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction.  After more thought,  and other conversations,  I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible.   What is your opinion on it?

Stoy:  I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece.  Again, not wanting to temper your opinions  as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did.  Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion.  I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman.  Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they?  You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right.  The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor.  Allow me to rephrase please.  Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher:  Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ .  I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids.  I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing”  and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well,  impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct?  That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc.  And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury.  But yes, that is what she told me.  I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her.  To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement .  I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case,  but yes,  they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are.  But that is my assumption.

Stoy:  Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s  service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home?  Spicher:  I am not sure about the exclusive use part,  I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok.  Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory.  By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy:  How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request.   She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids.  I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok,  understood,  we will get back to that.  I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.”  Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher:  I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005,  and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine,  I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help.  Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell,  Terri had a lot of drama,  and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know,  we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher:  Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention.  It was either during that call or at the lunch.  Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it.  What did she say

Spicher:  She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”.  She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her.  She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller.  The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him.  I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from?  Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person?  Sort of like…  she gets approval to remain anonymous,  she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that.  Except and again,  we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out.  The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact.  From what I recall,  I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood,  so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day,  but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes,  I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice.  I don’t think so because she did not ask for any.  So then what?  Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy,  and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day.   If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember,  that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok.  Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher:    Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed,  it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing.   She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office.   We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what?  Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher:  I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served,  in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le,  but it would surprise me.  Terri was always very family centric.  She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing,  this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper.   He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting”  and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI,  who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s  contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

 

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years.  The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier.  As a strong argument for the trickle down effect,  Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle,  was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report.   A former Sheriff,   Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications.  The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place.  Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact,  Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell.   O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week,  it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan,  the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids  a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption  tipping other’s off  in the alleged ring ,  Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso,  Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested.  The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike.   The specifics of which were sealed by the court.  It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids?  How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson,   through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest.  He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

 On June 3rd, 2010,  approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance,  Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury,  in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden.  Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products.  Worden has never been charged.

 Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

 

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known  to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

 

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin,  a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

 

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

 

 

From Buff To Puff

 

In contrast to Jackson,  although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement,  William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon”  cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote,  “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

 

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way.  Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client,  was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

 

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case,  sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well.  Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question.  Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason.  The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

 

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke  filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby,  Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith  for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot.   In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy.  The suit is pending.  A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion.  Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

 

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against  Traverso were dismissed  this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation.  Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold  illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids,  but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source,  an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…”   “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…”  The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment,  Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch,  Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

 

More Questions Than Answers..

Following several hours of interviews with  DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?

Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.

She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”

She was not.

Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself.  Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.

Through Spicher,  Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness”  which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc,  Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th.  His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.

Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought.  Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.

 

Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada  Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous.  Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom,  to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.

To her knowledge,  there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.

In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.

 

Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:

“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”

 

Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators.  One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer,  at their own expense  The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had  agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.

“…  This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.

 

The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”

 

I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange.  She had.  I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.

Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion.  Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.

I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home.  She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.

Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?

Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.

Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper?  I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen,  and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.

Spicher:  No, it wasn’t.  Kaine bought it.  It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property.   I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home.  I  mean, like cleaning the gutters,  cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing.  To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.

Stoy: With a baby,  7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that?  No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help.  I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.

Spicher:  No,  Terri  had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children.  I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money.  I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage.  One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that.  I believe the other was the landscaper.

Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.

Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that?  But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.

Stoy:  Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?

Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].

Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement.  Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you.  Are you angry about that?

Spicher:  O my no.  That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine.  I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can..   I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them.   I really pray that Kyron will be found,  I choose to put my energy into hope for that.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch,  Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday,  Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon,  a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

 

 

Jacqueline Beaufort,  Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

 

 

Related Posts:

4,398 Comments

  1. cd says:

    Rose says:
    October 20, 2013 at 10:29 am
    I do not see why a deposition of RSE is necessary on Kaine’s part if he has subpoenaed texts & photos from RSE’ & Terri’s cells. Based on what LE claimed to Kaine, that along with Cook’s cell pic data is enough to question TMH’s parental fitness, and moreover it is objective.
    ———-
    IMO
    I don’t think that infidelity or bad morality decisions while texting on the part of a parent seeking visitation/shared custody would be enough evidence to cause a permanent severing of the parent child relationship. I think in order completely bar a parent from seeing their child that there would need to be some sort belief or proof that the child would be abused or in some sort of physical danger from banned parent.

    Engle probably believes that proving that said parent is capable of violence as in an MFH will keep TH barred from seeing Kiara.

    With that deposition and the 39i Engle can get testimony from RS accusing TH and it would be difficult for Bunch/House to ask questions of RS that would cast doubt on his version of things.

    I think Engle wants to cover any and all avenues that will vilify TH. It also could be that there are some questions Houze could asked on deposition or in court that could make RS uncomfortable and reveal information that some people do not want to get out.

  2. grasshopper says:

    whatever the jurisdictional questions are, why has T been targeted? There are other possibilities that have been ignored in favor of accusing T by K and D and through court proceedings by DA. Why not go after the actual perp? Why pretend there is no SZ? Why pressure T unmercifully to “tell where kyron is” if she doesn’t know and someone else likely does? Makes no sense to me.

  3. Suzie Q says:

    Not going to quote here, but just going to add my own 2cents.

    David Durham is a dead end, IMO. How he was ever brought into this is just an unfortunate occurrence that he lived on Sauvie Island and there were supposedly cell phone pings, etc. and anything Sauvie Island became part of the lore for this whole unfortunate case that LE has blown from day one, IMO-again.

    I met David in 2/’10, was part of a film crew that was filming at his house. I liked him, didn’t get any bad vibes off him. Spent 4 days there, talked to him a lot, got to know his dog quite well. Could link you to the project we shot there. Have no idea what kind of mental break he may have had, but from all reports, he’d had some issues for a long time before he disappeared, leaving behind his own house and a rental house with a delightful tenant. His own house was unremarkable, was open for the cast and crew to hang out in. Whatever happened to Kyron, I cannot imagine that David Durham was a part of this, I cannot imagine his dog leaving him unless he was dead.

    I know Bob Skipper personally, he is an amazing guy, he stepped in as MCSO’s Sheriff, due to a resignation, IICC. Was retired prior to that. Was told he was unqualified and would need to take classes in order to remain Sheriff. He’d been retired, he took over in an emergency and he wasn’t wanting to go back to school, he stepped down. Staton then became who he still is today. Can promise you that none of this cluster fuck would have ever happened on Bob’s watch. and so it goes, just one bad political bunch of shit after another and here we are 3 1/2 years later w/no answers

  4. Suzie Q says:

    The clusterfuck that is Portland politics: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/11/new_multnomah_county_sheriff_t.html

    Small wonder this whole case has been “political” from day one, beginning when MCSO took this case away from PPD, IMO. Lots of politics and power wrangling going on in the months prior to Kyron’s disappearance. Still think it was a stranger abduction, still think it is just a new guy who was out of his league who had a case he was completely unprepared for and he let his people go and do what they did, and here we are. Why do I care?

  5. Rose says:

    TY GraceintheHills, & your DH.
    So one of the Horman mfh problems is money did not change hands in the commission of a crime.
    Wrt Sting, where did RSE, O’Donnell, Kaine, DEA, or whoever designed the sting think she’d get $10,000?
    Or $100? Surely they had access to her bank balances.

  6. Rose says:

    Appreciate knowledgeable local insights from Katie & Suzie Q.

  7. grasshopper says:

    @ Suzie Q
    Thanks! great to hear from someone who actually knows Skipper and David Durham.

  8. grasshopper says:

    Rose says:
    October 20, 2013 at 11:53 am
    imo there seems to be no expectation of transparency by Oregon government officeholders.
    Gov’t seems all about back door politics, & admirable prowess at same, unless media stumbles on a story angle, sexual or another personal flaw, it seems.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Is it different elsewhere? Certainly it is appalling what goes on around here but electing new people seems to change little. when the press ceases to be a watchdog it’s tough to get good information.

  9. T. Ruth says:

    Ditto Roses’ thank you to locals for your input.

    @SusieQ, I’d be interested in knowing what the project was you were filming. (Or a link if you’ve got one.) Was it gardening related?

    Own a dog just like his, that dog would be in my back pocket if he could. I’ve always found it weird that the dog ran one way and Durham another. Still makes me wonder if we’ve been either not told the whole truth or if someone picked Durham up and made him leave his dog. IDK if he had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance or not, but his vanishing is very weird.

  10. GeorgiaDad says:

    Rose wrote: “Does it make sense Kaine, an IT professional, had no pre 6/4/10 Internet presence?”

    Actually, to me it makes perfect sense that he had little online presence prior to K’s abduction.

    I’ve never figured out exactly what Kaine does for a living, but only that he is some kind of engineer for Intel, a company primarily involved with computer hardware.

    Much of what we think of as “online presence” is really social networking primarily, which just happens to take place on the internet. Facebook, its predecessors, and descendants would not really have a lot of attraction for a tech geek.

    If Kaine spent much non-work time on the internet, then I would suspect he would be more likely involved with online gaming, and these accounts could be hard to sleuth.

    Kaine’s primary non-work interest seem to be working out at the gym, an activity which at times has a major social component.

    I consider myself tech-savvy. I bought my first computer, a Sinclair ZX-81, in 1982. Until recently, I had a Facebook account on which I almost never posted, and a presence, under a handle, on several football related boards and a photography board. If you found my Facebook page, there would be no links to the football or photography boards or BOC. Some of my handles are reused, some are not. If you find a “GeorgiaDad” somewhere else than BOC, it is not me. I also find that I learn more by reading than posting. To an outside observer, it would appear that I was not particularly active online.

    KH may very well have been quite active on the internet without producing an “internet presence”.

  11. GeorgiaDad says:

    I would like to add that I now have a mildly-active Facebook page, but carefully watch what I post (I wish more of my friends did that). There would be some activity, but it still would give strangers very little insight into my online activities.

  12. January says:

    Suzie Q says: October 21, 2013 at 2:56 am

    Thank you for your insight regarding DAD, I wondered myself about whether he had anything to do with Kyron. When I read about his mental break, I doubted it.

  13. SH says:

    I too appreciate the insight from Katie and Suzie Q. Also the knowledge of Rose, VW, and Grasshopper. I wish I had something to offer but I do not except to pray for the innocent to prevail.

  14. January says:

    CD says:

    “IMO I don’t think that infidelity or bad morality decisions while texting on the part of a parent seeking visitation/shared custody would be enough evidence to cause a permanent severing of the parent child relationship. I think in order completely bar a parent from seeing their child that there would need to be some sort belief or proof that the child would be abused or in some sort of physical danger from banned parent.”

    ——

    I completely agree with you CD. Unless RS can prove somehow that Terri actually did try to hire him to kill Kaine, her sexting alone would not keep her from seeing her child. My guess is if we turn over the rock Kaine hides under many questionable “immoral” bugs would scurry out as well.

    How would Rudy’s word trump Terri’s anyway? He would have to have proof, and if he did we wouldn’t be here discussing this 3 years later.

  15. RedRose says:

    Makes one wonder if DAD might have escaped Waldport only to accidently stumble into a pot-growers’ secret location in one of the forests and gotten him dispatched without trace beneath a pot plant somewhere there, via booby trap.
    The other possibility is that Waldport was his target location, as he waited to be picked up by a boat or some other escape help, might be sipping mai tai’s south of the border, just like Christian Longo did after dispatching his own family several years ago.

    I really don’t understand why LE hasn’t found DAD – they sure found Longo. If WE were LE, we would probably be watching the dog and dog’s caretaker as well as his brother and any friends. DAD, if still alive, just has to have had contact with the dog or the family.

    It will be interesting to see his connection to KH (besides the SI neighborhood watering hole) or even TMH. I would think that both Hormans may have frequented that location before they got tired of each other.

    By the way, why would DAD’s DOG be in the parking lot? Not a lot of people take their pets to work, do they?

    @Katie says: October 20, 2013 at 12:57 pm
    Amys Sister,
    I often wonder about David Durham when thinking of this case. I wonder if his paranoia was so sudden though.

    I can tell you that my husband worked in the office space next to his off of NW 29th and Yeon and witnessed him acting violent more times than once. One particular time was when a contractor in a van nearly hit his dog in the parking lot; he became enraged (screaming, swearing and threatening).

    I wonder what happened to him. I don’t think he would have left his dog if he could have avoided it!

  16. RedRose says:

    Just read SuzieQ — OK, we’ll move DAD down to the end of the list.

    But there were two completely different posts about DAD just in the last day or so, one from a fellow employee, another the recent post just referred to …like he is two different people. — Nice. Not so nice:
    Katie says:October 20, 2013 at 12:57 pm
    Suzie Q says:October 21, 2013 at 2:56 am

    However, people only know about another person (DAD, in this case) what that person is willing to share. Not everyone knows another person entirely (i.e., everybody has ‘something’).
    I’m just sayin’ …

  17. JoCo says:

    The RSE Facebook page is interesting. He’s friends with our buddy Anselmo (yes, that one). They both hail from Morelia, Mexico. Interesting home town to say the least. Looks like Rudy is in a band. I wonder if they know any of my favorite narcocorridos…

  18. A Texas Grandfather says:

    Rose

    In regard to your question about Kaine Horman having no presence on the internet prior to 6/4/10. He could have been using a work alias that was used in his communications regarding work. His real identity would be known throughout the company as the alias and only those who were close to him would know the difference.

    For years I worked with people who maintained the telephone equipment in the major and minor switching centers across the Central and Eastern portions of the US (29 companies). Texas to New York. All of those people have a single name Alias when at work. This is protection for them.

    He may have a distrust of social media or he could be using an alias there as well. You will not find me on social media, but my wife uses it daily.

    Grasshopper

    Thank you for your local presence and the work you do regarding finding information from filings at the County Clerk’s office.

    I am not certain what you were trying to convey regarding examination of E-mail headers. Was it just names and addresses that are printed at the top for single or multiple addresses or is it the actual internet address of those addressed?

    If you use Windows, OSx (apple)or Unix or its variants including Linux or Android, there is a utility generically called traceroute that will allow one to use the actual numeric internet address to find the entire route of downloaded files and with some additional utilities that are downloadable from the net, one can do the same with E-mails. These locations can be placed on a map US or global by some of them. This is some of the things that LE need to be able to do, but most have little knowledge in this area.

    You probably already know that your E-mails are collected by your ISP on their mail server and then a group of them are sent over the net in a batch mode. The ISP also has a service routine that converts your E-mail address from its alpha form to the actual numerical address. This is called a domain name server (DNS). That same server is the one that translates the web address of “Blink On Crime” to its correct numeric address.

  19. A Texas Grandfather says:

    Susi Q

    Thanks for your information about the sheriff. Skipper did not want to take the courses that would have brought him up-to-date on state laws passed after his retirement. You make him appear to be a smart lawman.

    My thoughts are who made the protest about Skipper not being up-to-date and did someone appoint Stanton and then he was elected at the next election cycle? If Stanton was down the chain of command and he was picked over those above him, someone was pulling a political move.

    When politics is the only criteria, the people usually suffer by having someone in charge that lacks the skills necessary to really lead. A group of courses does not make a lawman nor will a college degree make one a skilled and respected leader.

  20. Amys Sister says:

    Suzie Q says:
    October 21, 2013 at 2:56 am
    …I cannot imagine that David Durham was a part of this…
    ______

    Thanks for your input Suzie. Be it a vibe or what have you it never seemed to me he would intentionally harm a little kid. I’ve posted that same thing here at BOC long ago. I do think he is somehow involved, though. Just conjecture but maybe he was led to believe he was helping a child escape a bad situation then someone tried to frame him for the whole thing?

    Totally agree. Reasonable and rational people do not shoot LEO.
    B

    The public was told he had become paranoid the police were after him. If SZ is in LE maybe it was true. Maybe he wasn’t unduly paranoid after all.

    Nice normal people do not usually shoot police officers unnecessarily so something was going on.

    All conjecture on my part, IMO, MOO.

  21. Amys Sister says:

    Katie says:

    October 20, 2013 at 12:57 pm
    …I can tell you that my husband worked in the office space next to his off of NW 29th and Yeon…
    ______

    Hi Katie. Would you be willing to guesstimate the time frame that your husband worked near him and witnessed the behavior?

  22. grasshopper says:

    @SH
    don’t feel that you don’t contribute. reading all this stuff, being interested and aware is so much more than most people do. thank you for being here!

  23. T. Ruth says:

    Amys Sister says:
    October 21, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    Katie says:

    October 20, 2013 at 12:57 pm
    …I can tell you that my husband worked in the office space next to his off of NW 29th and Yeon…
    ______

    Hi Katie. Would you be willing to guesstimate the time frame that your husband worked near him and witnessed the behavior?

    *****************

    Thanks for asking that Amys Sis, I was just about to ask the same thing, and since I know sometimes things get buried in this format, I will ask Katie again:

    Was this behavior before Kyron went missing, or after, or is your DH not sure? TIA

  24. Rose says:

    @JoCo. wish I were willing to use FB, to see what you see.
    Having perused Morelia, Mx, tho, what a Familia!

    And why is there an RSE FB site now, with these associations of Ramiro & Anselmo?
    I feel if it were there in 2010, monkeys or questers, or blinkies
    would have found it.

    I saw a truck pulling a yard maintenance equipment trailor
    like RS Maintenance had yesterday.
    It was a 350 & Unmistakeably Big.

  25. erose says:

    Agree with Amy’s Sis and Blink. DAD was a volunteer firefighter. The steroid bust indicated that firefighters were involved. I think that is a reasonable theory as to how DAD might fit in, if (big if) Kyron’s abduction had anything to do with steroids. I think it is a viable theory because TH went to LE anonymously, and they disregarded her anonymity. She also felt that the syringes and cancelled checks were important enough to turn over to Houze. Maybe it wasn’t evidence of an unfit father, but something else.

  26. erose says:

    Also…if DAD were abusing steroids it might account for his apparent Jekyll Hyde persona.

  27. JoCo says:

    Regarding social media and tech: TMH used social media with little regard as to how she was perceived. By all indications, she also could care less who was tracking her movements by cell pings. Interesting considering her affinity for CSI. Remind me again who in that house maintains a zero dark 30 level of privacy?

    I would add that I am aware that once TMH was told that LE believed she was lying about where she was the morning of June 4th- referring to her cell pings, she literally got in her car and drove it all again, to include the timing from phone calls where she was stationary. In fact, I withheld the dry cleaners until it was learned via the motions for deposition. More than once. I note that DY’s opinion about when Terri had “oppty” to do whatever she thinks she did with Kyron has changed to when she returned home that afternoon.

    Again I say – the only new info to me since the beginning that I did not develop personally via interviews or sources in this case is Kaine’s acknowledgement that he left for the gym at 5am.

    B

    B

  28. Suzie Q says:

    Not going to quote again. Don’t want to leave a link to the FB page of the film I was working on as I don’t want my friend to get drawn into this. This was a teaser – in film terms – a preview of a script he had written and he chose the location because it looked like his vision of France in his script.

    Long day, 3 more long days for me, so am not being the best converser here, not trying to be cryptic, I just really don’t know anything more than what I said earlier about David Durham. Will check back in on Fri. when I have a functional brain.

    I actually need to do some research on the whole Bob Skipper debacle to see what was going on power-struggle-wise at the time, politically. Trust that anyone curious could do the same in my absence. Just was putting in my 2 cents where David Durham was concerned. Truly do not think he had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance.

  29. Rose says:

    @Suzie Q. Personally I don’t think Skipper is worth evaluating unless you ask him personally who precisely recruited him to temporarily return. I notice his asst unretired then re-retired with him.
    At 70, imo that recruiting person did not expect him to stay or qualify. Imo he was a short term plug, a placeholder, necessary because he had the right to name his successor until the next election. And at 70, wrt
    that naming, he could be led by both flattery & facts–pointed in the direction of a cleancut, unctious person who
    lacked Guisto ties.

  30. Patricia says:

    Blink says:

    Again I say – the only new info to me since the beginning that I did not develop personally via interviews or sources in this case is Kaine’s acknowledgement that he left for the gym at 5am.

    B
    @Blink, do you know if TMH’s parents were in the Horman home that morning?

    Were not.
    B

  31. Rose says:

    Clarification to Susie Q. I guess my thought is when Skipper returned at 70, whoever solicited that & stood behind him knew he could not possibly remain until the next election. He was a vehicle to put Staton in without Staton having to run, imo. Or, maybe it was to block someone else who wanted to clean house & could.

  32. Rose says:

    @Blink. That was a lot of trouble for tmh to go to. I can see her calling the Detective in charge & saying “So ping me today.” It was a smart thing to do. Maybe Gosson believed her.
    If she gave them that corroboration opportunity, and they didn’t use it, imo she was set up from the beginning by someone with dependent police allies and Kaine’s steroid dealor & his upward chain of command works for me. Her police report was clearly not anonymous to those who would lose their jobs if their use was revealed. And one of Terri’s biggest media accusers early on was the gym manager, who’d just become a gym owner.

  33. Rose says:

    why, also, are the State Police ignoring this case?

  34. Rose says:

    I discovered a site probably everyone here knew about, whotalking.com. I typed in Kyron Horman . It puts up excerpts of recent FB posts without your going to the FB pages. A couple really scarey ones by Jones. Roseburg acolyte fallings out by “unfriending” threatening Desiree will feel terrible. Chaotic circus.

  35. T. Ruth says:

    Thank you Susie Q, totally understand.

  36. Amys Sister says:

    So, it occurred to me…

    What if Kaine was working with LE in the steroid investigation prior to June 2010? After Terri informed investigators that her husband was using ‘roids LE may have convinced Kaine to help them with their investigation.

    That would have given motive to more than one officer and who knows how many suppliers.

    Using the name Paul Jackson at the science fair could have been a head’s up to Kaine that the abduction of Kyron was in retaliation for him being a snitch.

    Do we know if a known Paul Jackson attended?

  37. erose says:

    Anyone think DAD could have been reacting on knowledge of Kyron’s abduction without being involved?

  38. patriciamochalatte says:

    So are we being asked to believe that the Horman home was not searched by LE after Kyron’s dissapearance? “THUD”

  39. Rose says:

    I’ll be honest, erose. I don’t think Kyron was on DAD’s horizon.
    Imo he had a narrow preoccupation with whatever his challenges
    and fixations de jour were.

  40. Rose says:

    unkess Blink tells me he resembles SZ
    and if several present did, imo that rules him out.

  41. Rose says:

    TY GeorgiaDad. You are wise.

  42. erose says:

    @Rose, I am wondering if DAD was knowledgeable wrt to Kyron’s abduction, not involved. It could explain his distrust of LE.

  43. erose says:

    @Amy’s Sis, Yes. Or TH, or both. Chalk one up for the FBI, or however that was said by TH was an interesting comment in that they seemed to have a small role in Kyron’s investigation.

    Amys Sister says:
    October 22, 2013 at 3:27 pm

  44. erose says:

    This theory doesn’t have to mean that LE was directly involved in Kyron’s abduction, but it could mean their suppliers were. Their suppliers have enough information to blackmail LE, therefore it would be in LE’s best interests to focus the investigation elsewhere.

  45. erose says:

    Wow Blink. That sure knocks the crap out of the reports that she was “unaccounted for” for 1.5 hours, and shows how cooperative she tried to be.

    JoCo says:
    October 22, 2013 at 1:18 am

    Regarding social media and tech: TMH used social media with little regard as to how she was perceived. By all indications, she also could care less who was tracking her movements by cell pings. Interesting considering her affinity for CSI. Remind me again who in that house maintains a zero dark 30 level of privacy?

    I would add that I am aware that once TMH was told that LE believed she was lying about where she was the morning of June 4th- referring to her cell pings, she literally got in her car and drove it all again, to include the timing from phone calls where she was stationary. In fact, I withheld the dry cleaners until it was learned via the motions for deposition. More than once. I note that DY’s opinion about when Terri had “oppty” to do whatever she thinks she did with Kyron has changed to when she returned home that afternoon.

    Again I say – the only new info to me since the beginning that I did not develop personally via interviews or sources in this case is Kaine’s acknowledgement that he left for the gym at 5am.

    B

  46. Gwen says:

    RedRose says:
    October 21, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Just read SuzieQ — OK, we’ll move DAD down to the end of the list.

    **************************

    Why? Because someone (presumably unknown to you) says they can vouch for DAD’s character and, more importantly, his movements the night he disappeared? Until this case is solved and all questions answered, I’m not moving anyone off the list or to the bottom of the list. Blink has a reason for including DAD and I’ve always assumed she knows more than she can tell. More importantly, as TRuth has mentioned many times, there are too many odd coincidences in this case to not mean anything.

  47. grasshopper says:

    @Amys Sister
    Where did the name Paul Jackson come from?

    It is Brian Casey Paul Jackson
    B

  48. T. Ruth says:

    erose, DAD being a firefighter and the story link Blink gives that Traverso & friends not only uncovered LE, but firefighters using roids, opened me back up to potential DAD involvement.

    I can also say this, from personal experience, my father was a firefighter, and I can say that without a doubt there is a definitive brotherhood amongst them, just like the boys in blue. I can also say this, that after loyalty to their own, the next in line, would be the ones who are also first responders and protect them while they are fighting fires…..LE.

    Does any of this have anything to do with Kyron being missing? WhTH knows? Until we know more the possibilities are endless.

    I find it interesting that SuzieQ stated from what she observed of DAD, in February 2010, was nothing at all bizarre. Wasn’t someone, either his boss, or his brother quoted as saying his problems started in January 2010, or did I make that up? Wasn’t he let go in January? I suppose I should go back and look it all up. That’s why asked Katie if her husband could remember when he noticed odd behavior from DAD. IIRC, someone once said (rumored) that DAD was in a lot of pain and had been taking some medication. Roids? Did he develop and addiction to them? Was he maybe cut off by his physician and had to seek them elsewhere? IDK, too many damn coincidences in this case.

  49. MockingbirdSings says:

    JoCo says:
    October 21, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    The RSE Facebook page is interesting. He’s friends with our buddy Anselmo (yes, that one). They both hail from Morelia, Mexico. Interesting home town to say the least. Looks like Rudy is in a band. I wonder if they know any of my favorite narcocorridos…
    ——————————–

    If there was a link to the FB page, I missed it. Could someone please post. I cannot find the one described here for either man.
    Thanks.

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Leave a comment