Kyron Horman Missing Case: Terri Horman Breaks Her Silence In People Magazine Interview
New York, NY- For nearly five and a half years Terri Horman has refused to speak publicly about her step-sons case. Outside of one assertion of her innocence while on the stand in a name change hearing she ultimately was denied, Horman did not speak to any reporters or answer any of their questions regarding Kyron Hormans disappearance. Until Now.
Horman courtesy of People
Horman was interviewed by People Magazines Elaine Aradillas for both the print and online editions, and will be doing a series of personal interviews over the next week, to include wwww.blinkoncrime.com.
In the brief online video excerpt , the second part to air on ABC’s Good Morning America Friday morning, Horman maintains she is deaf in her left ear, a critical factor in the outcome of her first polygraph.
“… At what point are Kyron’s biological parents going to realize I don’t have the answers, they need to change this thing around…”
“…There is so much the public is not being told about this investigation, that’s why I am doing this- nobody is looking for Kyron…”
Horman’s interview drew sharp reactions from Kaine Horman and Desiree Young, Kyron’s parents.
“…Why is she silent for 5 1/2 years if she is innocent. I want her to tell me where Kyron is. If she is innocent she should call Multnomah County Sheriffs Office and sit down for an interview…”- Desiree Young
“Hi friends. Yes I am well aware of the tabloid journalism piece in the media today. FYI – there will be more of the same coming Friday
We have a HOST of MCSO and FBI investigators STILL standing by with interviews and polygraphs when someone actually wants to cooperate. FEEL FREE TO STOP BY THEY ARE WAITING!! STILL!! Until then we’ll stick with the scores of people with valid/accurate information and the failed polygraphs as the only actual actions taken to-date. To all of you: how about not linking the article/interview?
REMEMBER KYRON?!?!? This is what we need to be focused on!!
Love you Kyron!!” – Kaine Horman post on his Facebook Page
Christina Stoy, www.blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief was able to confirm with Ms. Horman directly that she has been willing to meet with Kyron’s investigators both previously and in the future with the sole provision that it be conducted in the presence of her Attorney, Portland criminal defense lawyer Stephen Houze.
Horman went on to say that investigators with the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office have been well aware of “that” over the last five and a half years and they have never requested an interview. Um, What?
Horman reveals some shocking details about the subsequent polygraphs examinations referenced by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young and other allegations of improper tactics on behalf of MCSO in the second half of her interview to air tomorrow morning on abc’s GMA and on Nightline.
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When the failed investigation is investigated, Q1 is how did
MCSO seize crime scene (school) jurisdiction from PPB?
Q2 is why did PPB refuse to contribute a detective to the original task force?
Q3 Why was Gosson (Greshen major cty crimes team) removed from lead?
Why wasO’Donnell assigned?
Why go to Meiseimer for warrants?
What was all that about the spurious mfh when mcso had exculpatory evidence?
why the backing of the RO?
why did mcso cover up kaine’s steroid use?
how did mcso induce mcsa to collude in the coverup of the spurious RO in Court hearings?
and so on.
—-
how’s the new article coming?
I can only resist pleading for so long….
Going to be at about 1-2 weeks until publication but please have my personal and professional assurance that the process behind the scenes is diligent, thorough and protective of all parties with SPECIFIC EMPHASIS on the fact that Kyron’s case is an open and ongoing investigation.
The recent MCSO issues are a domino.
B
@Truth I don’t remember DAD mothers name but I do remember her paintings and Art I believe they were of Thailand. If you have her name they are on her site Happy searching
Blink I don’t know how much you remember but at the last of that search Staton wanted more money. Then called it off And then the task force was recalled It looks bad He was in charge of Kyron ‘s disappearance
Then nothing Always still investigating Still investigating ???
What really happened in the Troutdale situation? Did the local police situation fail or did the town loose the police chief and all the officers?
If Troutdale was left with zero policing, then in most states the County Sheriff is responsible for providing interim patrol services until the town enables regular services. The budget money would come from Troutdale to pay for the patrols.
In T.Ruth’s link about the County auditors reports, it appears that the accounting for Capital Expenditures has been mixed with maintenance costs making it unclear for proper reporting. One way to clear this is to write a formal Authorization for Expenditures (AFE)regarding new Capital expenditures. And use some sort of formal maintenance request to identify a particular maintenance project.
Likewise, the monies spent on a large investigation such as the search for Kyron should have a case number for accounting purposes and only the lead investigator has the authority to accept charges to the case. That keeps the costs of other groups from being dumped into the case which likely occurred in the Kyron case. A large expenditure for investigative costs could be used as a PR statement to show that a great effort had been made to solve it when in actual fact, the effort was totally misplaced.
And this about throats
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/02/multnomah_county_leaders_respo.html
@Bumble says:
February 6, 2016 at 9:55 am
Thanks for the correction, that’s what I meant to say Thailand. (I had just read about the earthquake in Taiwan, sorry.)
I do not have an answer except to say in this case, I know that Staton et al was aware of Kaine’s steroid recreation and the ensuing Federal charges that came out of it against “friends” of his.
B
@Blink, are using “friends” as in steroid-buying-using gym rats, or was Kaine actually friends with someone who was indicted in the federal bust?
Yes and yes. And some that were not arrested but cooperated. In this instance I am referring to a few folks slated to be deposed in the disollution matter.
OT but interesting about Drs and drugs
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-doctor-murder-overdose-drugs-sentencing-20160205-story.html
@ATG.
https://multco.us/multnomah-county/news/multnomah-county-sheriffs-office-take-over-patrol-troutdale
there is a pretty powepoint on line. As Blink said, lacks hard numbers. Wood Village was likely the other PD he took over after dissolution. Troutdale’s incentive was they had too many Sgts & not enough patrolmen for 24 hr coverage, & Troutdale did not want to pay for its PD. Staton took over the patrol responsibility including the coverage to 24 hrs, and took on Troutdale’s force, meaning he too got 4 new Sgts but already lacked enough patrolmen to provide coverage promised. And iirc he got the Troutdale bldg in a long term lease.
@ATG
https://multco.us/multnomah-county/news/multnomah-county-sheriffs-office-take-over-patrol-troutdale
oops sorry for double posting same url
So just who was the first gun ho to start the Terri did it after Tony. Kane or DY or ?
Or was it Staton with a MFH sting and so called tower pings Who started the Terri did it plus LDTs
Really makes Kaine’s message to Terri when she finally talks look like a joke. A host of MCSO and FBI investigators are waiting Right What planet is Kaine on He must know the case being investigated was just Staton’s answer in case somebody asks
How does neither Kaine `nor Desiree know or acknowledge MCSO has not so much as requested an interview with their only suspect in 5 1/2 years?
Who does that make sense to?
B
” In this instance I am referring to a few folks slated to be deposed in the dissolution matter”
http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/01/21/kyron-horman-missing-case-terri-horman-breaks-her-silence-in-people-magazine-interview/comment-page-15/#comment-2251327
These then, are outside the gym circle of user-dealors, and it gets down to the Horman social circle,
otherwise how would Terri know about several superfluous to the gym and to the arestees?
I don’t remember anyone in their social circle but Mike R, who was Intel & motorcycles
and do good in nepal, & who decamped to CA office. Mike C, who was alleged to be drug driven by his Ex
was supposedly new to Terri. I suppose to id their social circle one would have to go back to Kaine’s 2009 FB.
Great questions, Rose. Can’t wait for the article and the other dominoes to start falling. Will stay perched on the edge of my seat for 1-2 weeks for either or both.
Rose says:
February 6, 2016 at 10:37 am
snip>
Going to be at about 1-2 weeks until publication but please have my personal and professional assurance that the process behind the scenes is diligent, thorough and protective of all parties with SPECIFIC EMPHASIS on the fact that Kyron’s case is an open and ongoing investigation.
The recent MCSO issues are a domino.
B
December 2015. Not sure if someone already posted this:
snip>
A Washington County jury found a 22-year-old woman guilty last week of raping and sexually abusing a young boy.
Melissa Chacon of Cornelius went to trial on six Measure 11 charges related to sex abuse involving a 7-year-old.
The jury found her guilty Friday on three counts of first-degree sexual abuse and one count of first-degree rape. Judge Thomas Kohl acquitted her of using a child in a display of sexual conduct and jurors also acquitted her on one count of first-degree sexual abuse.
http://www.oregonlive.com/forest-grove/index.ssf/2015/12/woman_found_guilty_of_raping_7.html
@Malty. I will be very interested in Blink’s answer to you.
My tbought is the initial came from someone within mcso, and those on the sinking ship of terrible gult & grief feelings
(re parenting) or on the other hand moral or criminal activity to hide, clutched at that mcso employee’s rope like a lifeline. But I merelynspeculate on human nature, so I want to hear Blink’s solid analysis.
God bless you Blink.
“Going to be at about 1-2 weeks until publication but please have my personal and professional assurance that the process behind the scenes is diligent, thorough and protective of all parties with SPECIFIC EMPHASIS on the fact that Kyron’s case is an open and ongoing investigation.
The recent MCSO issues are a domino.
B”
enjoy the “debate” (aka “stuff”)
Seems like Desiree is in the same underground
bunker til a new search is announced and
gofundme is in “play” again. Unless she comes out
with an endorsement of the embattled Sheriff.
I think one of Underhill’s inattentive problems to the investigation is due to jeff barker’s daughter was the fulltime ada on the case for a year, and why would he question her work? He was unaware of her own apparent failure to question her internal office directives, or mcso requests, when she was seeking to redeem her reputation from bad press in a losing trial. Inderhill seems under-analytic (under-paranoid) of the foibles of the civil servants surrounding him.
Blink, it is the MCDA who went in to Kantor time after time, and probably manouvered him into the role of newbie Judge for Horman Family Court, to suppress exculpatory mcso testimony in the custody matter and the civil case, and to ensue the falsely based RO stood. MCSO Staton is not throwing mcda under the nus. Mcda flagged the bus down and drove it with the full force of a County prosecutor although no charges or indictment coukd be filed. Between mcso Staton and Mcda Shrunk/Frink/Underhill, the latter members of the Bar have the greater unclean hands imo in the Horman litigations and the abduction of k from her mother.
As far as several decisions and tactics I am aware of- I had originally thought MCSO was just entirely rogue. In almost every way they were and are, imo. Over the last few weeks and I presume in the weeks ahead I am being inundated with insider accounts I am not even sure how to catalog.
In the issue of the initial filing and FAPA- I believe all of that was in motion before the DA office knew what hit them.
It will be unequivocal. MCSO and MCDA (and we will see to what degree) provided a FAPA allegation and ex parte order in bad faith. It was a lie, and that is not just my opinion, it is part of the record. Details to follow.
B
wrong thread 1st sorry Blink
Riddell was discussed here in Jan 2014.
Someone contributed this
http://bojack.org/2011/06/assassinating_riddell_tin_foil.html
emailed and thank you.
B
Blink 1-2 weeks is good for your interview
I have been angry about this investigation awhile now so if you have found it is really on going I am so glad
And will be thrilled to hear it Kyron matters
Riddell was in charge of Criminal, OR DOJ in June 2010ff to the extent mcda/so sought investigative resources or shared information.
http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/pages/2009/rel072309.aspx
He was reassigned in June 2011.
http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-27276-breaking_news_top_criminal_prosecutor_is_out_at_the_oregon_department_of_justice.html
Duin (O) defends Cylvia and disses Riddell’s tactics in 201:
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2011/03/john_kroger_and_the_cylvia_hay.html
But, the 2015 Duin:
“…..the investigation will be led by Darin Tweedt, chief counsel for the Criminal Justice Division. (Tweedt, she adds, is “currently working while he is on paternity leave.”)
…Aggressive prosecutions are not in Rosenblum’s wheelhouse. ….she arrived at the AG office – a Kitzhaber appointment …..”
“….Sean Riddell, who in his stint as Kroger’s chief prosecutor was impressed by nothing so much as the cronyism that has long dominated Oregon politics.
To ensure credibility in this criminal investigation, Riddell argues, “They (need to) find a retired prosecutor or judge, someone who is financially independent (and) who has no further aspirations of doing anything else with their political careers.
“….you need someone who is financially independent, doesn’t have a (law) firm to hold up, and doesn’t care about career advancement.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2015/02/steve_duin_in_battle_of_nerves.html
WW followed Riddell’s career:
http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-29250-oregon_state_bar_dismisses_complaint_against_sean_riddell.html
Riddell writes a hot letter:
http://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2013/02/04/1360017479-krueger_tort_cla.pdf
(He btw prosecuted white supremacists while at mcda.)
Lt (Admin) Brent Ritcher, left of pic
http://www.oregonlive.com/multnomahcounty/2016/02/multnomah_county_sheriff_stato.html
accompanied Yankee to all CC mtgs as copresenter http://multnomah.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=3&clip_id=1102
Imo Yankee was always a budget beard, while Ritchie is the Sheriff’s man.
Yankee, when in charge of Corrections, was probably a thorn in Staton’s flesh, and this promotion to Budget guru a gambit to hasten her retirement.
No wonder he’s in admin.
p255-56ff
Gave peer support to his subordinate O’Donnell, then dated his wife.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2008/01/FINAL%20GIUSTO%20Investigative%20Report%20%231%2001%2016%2008.pdf
Yankee’s own personal trojan horse imo. A burly warm personable shoulder to cry on.
Geeze I forgot that was him- wasn’t he also his spvsr?
B
Aw. Ritchie was Union Press during his conflict of interest period.
When questioned, Ritchie’s line was he only dated Laura after the divorce.
However on p 257 of summary: 2 weeks after the divorce they discussed who shoukd tell O’Donnell about their “relationship”
I guess Riddell can use this transcript to discredit Ritchie’s testimony as an jntruthful, self-serving witness imo.
my guess is that unsworn person Staton was replacing Yankee
with is Wanda Yantis, Fiscal Mgr, who always briefed that Citizens Board on the budget.
formerly with city of portland back in 2004 at least.
if she’s the one teaching a class at the kids’ Sat. Academy,
she has an mba and is a hardware/software expert.
@Blink. He says in the interview he was not O’Donnell’s direct supervisor.
O’Donnell was of subordinate rank.
O’Donnell was assigned to him in an organized peer mentor program.
Apparently Staton found a niche for Ritchue, keeping an eye on the gals.
@Blink. imo the most culpable parties to the FAPA and RO,
and their continuance were Judges Mesinheimer
(his Rubber Stamp dirtied from that and the warrants) and Kantor.
They are covered under “4 corners” at the very least. It is presumptive what is in the contents of the affadavit (and if appropriate) and sworn by the officers of the court. Depending upon the content it will go right back to MCSO.
B
need an independent investigation of what did these Judges do, on what representations,
when and why? Think Rosenblum will take that on in her election yeat?
Btw no way jose Rosenblum AG will take on a County Sheriff and find wrongdoing in her own
election year.. What a joke Kafoury referred this to her rather than Oregon Dostrict Federal DOJ.
now we get to what was Rackner told by any mcso employee,
when was she told it, and what steps did she take to vet (calling any ADA,
or Sanchez himself)? If she filed for FAPA/RO without vetting anywhere,
knowing what everyone in Portland knew about mcso’s
leadership history, imo unclean hands.
She is on record a few times. Her basis was info received from LE. Engel said he found RSE on his own, lol. What transpired between the conveyor belt of info to the former DEA prosecutor and Engel google? A bar complaint and unfortunately Ms. Rackner’s cancer diagnosis and treatment.
How is an Atty vetting LE case sensitive info? They cant.
B
Thanks for the line Rose. This proves to me that Sheriff Stanton is looking to build a powerful position in law enforcement for the entire county. The article indicates that he has help from the County Commissioners. This may also explain how Stanton became the lead agency in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance.
If the city of Troutdale is 16,000 people, then they should have fired the Mayor and Council along with the police chief. This indicates to me the fact of total mismanagement by the city government.
In Texas if this action was taken, there is a six month trial period. At the end of the trial period the new agency has to perform as promised or everything is void.
It appears that Blink has uncovered some crucial evidence that could help Terri Horman in building a case against the County Criminal Justice system.
I personally believe that Kaine Horman is being aided by the legal staff of his employer. They do not want a dirty story made public that involves perhaps more than just Kaine.
I think Kaine has been and would continue to be concerned about his employment being effected in any way, most especially by an allegation of “things associated with steroids, an illegal substance in OR”. I don’t think ethically I can say what may or may not be considered evidence for a tort action- and also stay objective in a journalist capacity. I plan on leaving that to the lawyers for sure.
B
Blink says: (snipped) MCSO and MCDA (and we will see to what degree) provided a FAPA allegation and ex parte order in bad faith. It was a lie, and that is not just my opinion, it is part of the record. Details to follow.
B
______
I hope Terri provides clarity on why she did not fight that FAPA. She was represented at that time, certainly her attorney should have advised that she do so. I think Terri was afraid of something beyond being accused of harming Kyron.
It’s hard to believe that investigators and a DA office would go to these lengths for any reason whether it be to protect Kiara, make a suspect ‘pay’ for the crime before the crime can be proven, or even to protect the school. If one were a bettin’ person one would think this type of attack was to protect someone(s) or something.
That said, it has to be beyond steroids, even if steroids is a part and parcel of the situation. There has to be more to the story.
AS- Some of the “conversation” wrt to what is privileged or work product between TH and her counsel has to occur in general terms (much like Spicher). Some of it may be “off the record” as it relates to collateral interviews. My interview is going to shed great light, in detail, on your question (let’s face it, we all really want to hear from Ms. Horman directly not my rattle, lol).
That said- it is my opinion that once O’Donnell and MCSO et al played their hand so to speak wrt to the MFH allegation and Frink went after Spicher publicly there was no turning back. I say emphatically- both Spicher and Horman were told unequivocally they were facing arrest and/or arrest and indictment and the no true bill put MCSO and by default really, MCDA in an adversarial position. Remember the ole request for public assistance press conference?
B
Vet the mfh story? idk how a real lawyer would do it. To protect myself from a malpractice suit if a spurious story from mcso came back to bite a client in the midst of a custody battle, I’d have Kaine put it in a notarized writing, including the mcso’ source deputy’s name, for my records. Then I’d call Staton and explain the Horman I represented had been told this by Deputy X and was it secure enough to use as the basis for a fapa/ro? If no comment, move on to Shrunk. (purpose = documenting my efforts). I might even send my hispanic paralegal out to interview Rudy. If I coukdn’t get anyone on the record for my client, I’d figure we woukdn’t be able to at trial either, and I’d tell him to take kiara, move out, and divorce the usual way.
@ATG. I inadvertantly stumbled on video with our cast of characters on point re budget topics.
April 21, 2015
http://multnomah.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=3&clip_id=1112
This County Commissioners’ hearing begins with Yankee recounting the recent dramatic decrease in suicide watches.
then at 8:50 the Sheriff rolls in with Chief Anderson (Troutdale) and a burly man to Yankee’s right (Ritchie) to discuss the Troutdale merger.
Lt Brent Ritchie starts selling the merger via a slide show at 10:40.
Ritchie picks up again at 23:39 with Labor considerations.
Ritchie apparently designed the Troutdale contract fir Staton.
The Commissioners ask no real questions and budget details are nonexistant. Kafoury appears very weak imo.
btw unless Ritchie just likes Lauras, he married O’Onnell’s Ex.
And I thot the lawyers of the OR District Fed DOJ were spousally
nepotistic….
Any idea why Yankee is designated as an out of state contributor for Staton’s 2014 election.
https://secure.sos.state.or.us/orestar/gotoPublicTransactionSearchResults.do?cneSearchButtonName=prev&cneSearchContributorTxtSearchType=C&cneSearchFilerCommitteeRsn=24508&cneSearchFilerCommitteeTxtSearchType=C&cneSearchPageIdx=0
@rose post #30. Yes, looked at images. I agree. IMO, the steroid issue will feature big time, which, again IMO, prompted the immediate witch hunt for Terri. She brought to light that which was meant to be kept in the dark. Rather than LE immediately focussing on Skyline and what went on there(crime scene), CYA was first. I pray that egos be finally set aside and bring to light what will actually help find what happened to Kyron. Poor wee lamb just didn’t have a chance with the way this was handled.
I did not mean to imply that Blink would declare in an article that any portion of facts found to be evidence for a legal action. What I was thinking was the story as posted could be of interest to Terri’s counsel or others to investigate an avenue not previously examined.
Of course VP- and you will ultimately be correct.
B.
It’s not possible that Kaine Horman has been running things all along, is it? I mean, is it possible he holds enough high-up-cop-buying steroid information (and maybe other drugs) (or maybe other buyers, such as bigwigs at Intel) over LE’s heads, that everything has simply gone his way intentionally by the powers that be? When Rckner said she wanted to everything she could to help LE, was that to help them find Kyron, or was that to help them cover their butts?
His comment about LE is waiting with LTD’s etc., was so weird, when he knows damn well they haven’t asked TMH to come in for interviews. His girlfriend, KM’s comments about everyone (referring DY, etc.) should just do what Kaine’s doing, which, according to her, is what LE says he should do, that was strange too. Sit around and wait and sell bracelets and t-shirts? Is that what LE has recommended to him?
This is beyond bizarre behavior everywhere.
Thanks again Rose
This is proof that the Troutdale merger was a planned arrangement that was put together by Stanton and the Chief of Police Anderson. The whole thing raises the question of how much input, if any, did the Troutdale citizens have?
Maybe the County Commissioners in Oregon are a little better trained regarding financials than those that I have observed in Texas. Most of the time, these people lack any real experience in how to ask the proper questions of such a presentation.
Rose
What is the MBA of Wanda Yantis? It is a real hard task to find someone who is both a hardware and a software expert. Who is declaring that expertise?
This mcso is an institutional culture where the female as collateral damage, whether Yankee, Waller, Kafoury, Terri, Kiara, Spicher, is the rule not the exception–to be lied to, dismissed, placed in the hands of a known steroid abuser, jobless, penniless, whatever. This culture is as bad as if not worse than Goldschmidt-Guisto era. And the last thing Kafoury should have done was send this to a female AG in her reelection year. Go Riddell.
My opinion is Kaine is small potatoes, whether steroids or anything else, but for his employer Intel, to whom he is in reality quite expendable at his age. But these men would have respected his employment. I think he elicited sympathy from these other smallminded men as a bereaved father with a somehat unattractive dame on her third marriage and not even working to pull her weight, by a cabal of misogenists
who saw his roid useage as a small pecadillo if not manly.
As far as KM and her statements for Kaine go, water seeks its own
level, tho he seems to chose drinking streams further and further downhill.
Kristin wrote that? Well, the men Kaine takes orders from are a then youthful wet behind the ears new mcso hire with no homicide or abduction experience, a RETIRED volunteer who did god know what for the agency who has some lay training like Desiree’s, and a thoroughly discredited Sheriff. So forgive me if this multiple marriage now mistress who did not know, never met Kyron, who’s gathered little moss as a school aide, entry sales, and receptionist, is not persuasive.
@ATG. I think Staton planned to resign soon this Spring to challenge for the Gresham Commissioner’s vacancy (because he once said that was his plan) campaigning this summer on his successes, like “building the Dept’s coverage and reach to EAST COUNTY voters” (location of Troutdale). He has brought more policing/public safety services to the East side. Let his successor wrassle with that 10 year looser contract.
—
Troutdale had spent on a lovely new police bldg (which Staton wanted). Their personnel costs were too high (thank you Union). They couldn’t pay for 24 hr police patrols.
Kafoury bought the reasoning there would be: 1) increased mcso patrol on the E side, 2) new bldg situating mcso in that community (benefits Staton’s CC run, and 3) cost savings over all in the merger. mcso had cost the County a lot, Kafoury had the fantasy adding Troutdale and getting the city’s contract payment yearly for 10 years, would ease the CC’s budget burden. Yankee could disprove that but was under orders not to do so. And in the hearing Kafoury was beyond incurious.
Yankee sat that in that media hearing and told Kafoury we get “seasoned employees” to fill our 22 vacancies in the takeover. What she meant was we get 4 high cost Sgts we don’t need, and 18 long time employees at high pay grades, not to mention high nos. on the sick & vac leave, likely to retire soon. To fill their vacancies mcso shoukd have hired low entry level, new low pay grade personnel at a much lower cost. After all these are patrol hires, and seasoning in driving skills doesn’t matter.