Dr. Phil Show Hosts Missing Portland Child Kyron Horman’s Step Mom Terri Horman Over Two Episodes
I have been covering this case since Kyron Horman disappeared from Skyline School in June, 2010. Like most missing persons cases I have covered in the past, I am of the strong opinion that best efforts at the truth are the only way to propel investigations that, similarly to Kyron’s, have gone cold for one reason or another. This approach has worked in resolving some of my previous cases. I am proud of that. I remain steadfast to the integrity involved in those and future cases.
Over the past 10 months (or so) I have been developing an updated series on Kyron’s case to include my multiple interviews with Kyron’s step-mom, Terri Horman. Needless to say as she was the subject of at least three simultaneous cases before an Oregon court and remains a person of interest by the agency investigating her sons disappearance, this has been an arduous and sometimes delicate journey. Ms. Horman’s experiences during the ongoing investigation of the disappearance of Kyron Horman are critically important to propelling his case and with great hope- finding the truth about what happened to this cherubic and innocent child. There are dozens of sources, collateral interviews, forensic experts and legal analysts that also contribute to my series and have done so because of their belief that my motivation is to bring to light information and opinions in such a way that would almost “require” a focused review of Kyron’s case and the likely shaking of that proverbial tree everyone talks about.
Set to publish about 6-ish weeks ago I was asked to postpone the first installment of the series, which I did. I subsequently learned Ms. Horman was participating in the Dr. Phil program after she completed taping. Dr. Phils producers were well aware that Ms. Horman had interviewed with me extensively, and anticipated my series would be publishing information that was not known to the public previously in the days prior to her scheduled episode. When Ms. Horman conveyed to me that she feels obligated to speak out about “her son” in any national medium that will have her, I most certainly respected that. I still do.
While Dr. Phil seems like a gregarious fellow for sure, I have zero interest in being associated with his program, nor do I believe his shows content is designed to do any furtherance of investigation or truth. There is much concern (although I have no affiliation to the show whatsoever) that the timing of the publication of my series on the Kyron Horman matter might be interpreted differently or inadvertently contribute to the programs content or audience reactions. Not what I signed on for. A missing 7 year old boy six years running is not a framework for entertaining a target audience. He is not fodder for online social media bully campaigns- yet it occurs.
I will be publishing my series on Kyron’s case at a later date, in it’s entirety with no editing adjustments as a result of any of the appearances on Dr. Phil. I appreciate your patience and your understanding. Feel free to discuss the show below.
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Rose says:
October 28, 2016 at 9:05 am
@Rose, she didn’t get my vote.
erose says:
October 27, 2016 at 6:41 pm
Perhaps Stenson changed his timeline because LE informed him of the time the kids he saw had gone out to release the butterflies and check their planters? Whose classroom were the kids in that went outside to release the butterflies and check their planters?
********************
A groundskeeper, who was mowing the soccer field at Skyline School the morning Kyron Horman disappeared, clarified his timeline to investigators Friday morning and it differs slightly from what he told a KATU News reporter earlier in the week.
Portland Parks and Recreation turf technician, Dave Stensen, told a reporter he never saw the Hormans’ white Ford F-250 pickup truck in the two areas investigators asked about during a Wednesday news conference.
Those **two places** were on an access road to the soccer field and investigators say they want to talk to anyone who may have seen the Hormans’ truck on it between 8:15 a.m. and 8:45 a.m., Friday June 4.
Stensen told a reporter earlier in the week that he cut the grass on the soccer field between 7:45 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. and never saw the truck on the road.
He had to use the gravel access road to get to the soccer field, only he apparently used it before and after that half-hour window of time.
He met with two detectives and a deputy district attorney at Skyline School early Friday to go over his timeline in detail.
Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. or 9 a.m., which means he could have missed seeing the Horman truck being in the two spots investigators are interested in, especially since he spent his time and attention at the school mowing the soccer field.
Investigators say that puts him on the gravel road outside of the critical half-hour window they want to know about since **they have witnesses who saw someone in or around the Hormans’ truck during that time.**
Still, authorities said it was helpful to have spoken to Stensen in depth.
Investigators say they are still hoping to speak with anyone who was at the school the morning of June 4 and saw the truck that Kyron’s stepmother, Terri Horman, was driving and anyone who was in it or around it.
Investigators are still trying to identify that person in the Hormans’ truck and say that could be key information into Kyron’s disappearance.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100663409.html
Well if LE was only asking Stenson about whether or not there was a truck on the access road, and his answer was no he didn’t see one, and if true that TMH didn’t park there, then who WAS parked on the access road. Apparently LE has a witness(s) who saw someone in and around a white truck parked on the access road? Yet they were asking people to come forward with their make model, license # etc, of persons who parked on the south lot. Weird.
So do they think that SZ parked in the south lot to begin with and then later on moved his vehicle to the access road, then went in and requested Kyron’s help. Why the access road? Wouldn’t one have to back out of there? Doesn’t seem like a great get-away spot to me, unless I’m forgetting the layout, which is possible.
Rose says:
October 27, 2016 at 6:02 am
Someone unqualified runs for Sheriff against Reese, probably for publicity, but A for effort.
http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/329103-208065-sources-a-protest-vote-thats-just-that
————–
I know some believe that MCSO’s crime investigative skill’s are not the best but one of the main things they do is search and rescue and the County jails system. I’ll bet the people who need searched for and rescued are pretty happy to see MCSO. This lady has no experience with anything like the Sheriff’s responsibilities the only interest she has in this office a a forum to further her political beliefs. i don’t think she even knows what the Sheriff’s job entails.
@ATG. It was repeatedly said (on a general basis) in the O for years MCSO had only one patrol officer on duty for that entire County (W of River, Skyline area plus much more) sector.
That was part of Staton’s rationale to merge with E County PDs and perhaps acquire a bit
more in the way of patrol assets.
moreover it was rarely the same patrol
officer until one was assigned as community
liaison after the first merger
fishy that Soldier advertised early in the week kelly’s statement on GFM that a new flier put out by ncmec is being published, then Soldier puts out the old tips4kyron flier pleading for tips to kelly to plan the next search. what flier does kelly want Soldier to publish anyway, since kelly is managing her half-sis’ communications, apparently?
@TMH
I have been reluctant to ask questions of you as I have felt it best to wait for Blink’s articles to be published.
However, since you have indicated you parked on the shoulder I thought I would ask for a clarification.
The following image shows four possible positions that come to mind where you parked. Could you indicate whether you parked approximately in position A, B, C, D, or other? If other, could you clarify further?
Thanks.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Truck%20Position/Truck%20Position%20Marks_zps1kjmcbrs.jpg
@TMH
Another question related to where you parked. A poster here, Neighbor, once made a comment about a truck parked on the access road. (Question for you to follow).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Neighbor says:
March 3, 2011 at 8:54 am
~snip
There was a white truck on the access road, but it was parked diagonal. The rear was partly on the access road and the nose pointing fairly steep down to Skyline blvd. Hope this clears things up instead of adding to the confusion. Time was about 8.31. As I recall (after many months) the GK had many spots blocked on the main parking.
~snip
(Following link will not work as it is to the DAD lost comments)
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-45/#comment-1670195
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
@TMH
Did you ever see a truck, probably with a trailer, parked on the access road as depicted in the following photoshopped image? If so, at what time(s).
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Truck%20Position/Stenson%20Truck%20Trailer_zpssuvccnbo.jpg
Neighbor recalled seeing a white truck partly on the access road pointing down towards Skyline at about 8:31am, I would assume in a manner similar to my (sketchy) photoshopped concoction.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Truck%20Position/Stenson%20Truck%20Trailer_zpssuvccnbo.jpg
I had thought for a long time that Neighbor saw this in the timeframe Stensen was about to pull onto Skyline Blvd., to leave the grounds.
More recently I have been thinking he may have driven through the gate (~7:30am), unloaded his mower, then proceeded back down the access road and parked his truck and trailer in the manner seen by Neighbor. This would be to make sure he wouldn’t be blocked by an unattended vehicle. When Stensen was done, he would have driven the mower down the access road, loaded it on the trailer and left the grounds (~8:30am or closer to ~9:00am).
It is also possible Stensen noticed an increase in vehicle arrival at the school and decided to move his truck and trailer down the access road sometime in the middle of his mowing job to prevent being blocked (maybe that made the job last longer then usual).
His statements at the time seem to indicate he left his truck and trailer on the track the entire time and risked being blocked upon leaving. If he left closer to 9:00am, then Neighbor would have been off in the time of observation anywhere from 20-30 minutes. Also, Neighbor could have remembered a different day and/or a different vehicle.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Referencing:
T. Ruth says:
October 28, 2016 at 6:34 pm
erose says:
October 27, 2016 at 6:41 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/09/21/dr-phil-show-hosts-missing-portland-child-kyron-hormans-step-mom-terri-horman-over-two-episodes/comment-page-16/#comment-2257012
—————————
Neighbor says:
March 3, 2011 at 8:54 am
~snip
There was a white truck on the access road, but it was parked diagonal. The rear was partly on the access road and the nose pointing fairly steep down to Skyline blvd. Hope this clears things up instead of adding to the confusion. Time was about 8.31. As I recall (after many months) the GK had many spots blocked on the main parking.
~snip
(Following link will not work as it is into the DAD lost comments)
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-45/#comment-1670195
—————————-
Where the discussion about Stensen began on BlinkOnCrime:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/26/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-grand-jury-meets-indictment-imminent/comment-page-42/#comment-1612467
TH was parked on the shoulder, and I think her timeline is 8:05 – 8:45. If someone parked another white truck in the same spot, then I would be inclined to think that Kyron was targeted and this was a orchestrated abduction, not random.
That August press conference where they called for people parked in the south lot to come forward is where I think SZ parked. I think rumor and speculation put focus on the white truck(s).
@TRith. What I get out of that article is this: “He met with two detectives and a deputy district attorney at Skyline School early Friday to go over his timeline in detail.” in retrospect, a DDA was hands on on directing every aspect of the investigation with Teri as his focus imo.
–
@ATG. In the hearing of the children, an adult did notice kyron was gone at 10 am. Their teacher said if’s OK. 2/3 graders buy it when their teacher says it.
Thanks Rose for your comment about the lack of patrol in Multnomah county by the county sheriff.
The land area is 431 square miles. I know that a lot of the land area is under jurisdiction of Portland and other towns. How much is left to patrol by the sheriff is not known. If as much as 35 percent of the land area is MCSO responsibility, then 150 square miles would be patrolled. This tells me that the County supervisors are a bunch of people who are not knowledgeable about LE. MCSO has morphed into an organization that is top heavy in supervisors with little attention to protecting the people.
T. Ruth
Go out to Google Earth and look at the land and access to the soccer field. The gravel service road to the soccer field is accessed off of the North side of Skyline drive. It is visible from the overhead. The school is built into a rise of land that is higher in elevation than Skyline. Use the ground view to see the differences in elevation.
If the access to the road was not blocked by a vehicle, one could drive to the soccer field, then turn around and park near the steps leading from the West exit of the school. There is about an eight or nine foot difference in elevation between the school exit and the soccer field. The field is lower.
It would be a simple thing to drive to skyline drive, then turn East for a short distance, turn right onto the road South to Klackamas county and be out of sight of the school in as little as 20 seconds. Skyline drive climbs the hill East of the school and then drops down which would hide a vehicle from someone looking in that direction.
The grounds keeper guy has long been on my list of suspects.
you know, if KH was as overbearing as consistently depicted, it is possible
he quietly connected the phone she used to his laptop to routinely upload her emails
and other social media activities. imo such a manouver by misogynistic
husbands might in future become a verb like googling. the verb? “weinering” ones’ wife.
Ok but I thought you made a good point
B
@ATG. numerous sources over time, notably unions
critical of sheriffs, have made the point
mcso is primarily a Corrections employer. To date
the Sheriffs have been
abysmal managers of their primary corrections
duties and budget.
Oh Rose, that got a ::face palm:: and a LOL from me.
Rose says:
October 30, 2016 at 8:09 pm
re targeting, SZ had no way to know she’d drive the
white truck on friday rather than her own car
unless kaine informed him prior to 8 am.
even then if SZ had a white truck because kyron was targeted,
the plan was made wfore Friday, and
the plan relied on kaine to say you take the truck honey.
that 2 white trucks were involved would not be coincidental. But,
what basis is there to think SZ was in a white truck? I discount any “hints” coming from mcso.
mcso was probably referring to teri and not focused on SZ at all car-wise.
Whose idea was the kiara car seat would
stay in the truck for early Fri am?
Both vehicles had a seat for Kiara-it was not moved back and forth.
To my knowledge, TH did not even know for sure she could use the truck Friday until after 9PM Thurs 6/3. Keep in mind Kaine confirms that nobody knew the oral presentations were given Thursday (obtusely, but in early interviews). I believe the initial focus was on a white truck because MCSO and the DA put out fliers re same- TH was told it was to exclude her by some means.
B
Quizzi, you are highly ethical,
highly analytical, and detail oriented.
thank you!
Ditto!
B
Quizzi. you provide an excellent, labelled photo that clearly shows the access rd vs the shoulder.
http://s1130.photobucket.com/user/quizzi1/media/Truck%20Position/Truck%20Position%20Marks_zps1kjmcbrs.jpg.html
quite a hike to the front door. I don’t understand why cars didnt parallel park on the school side of the driveway, marching closer up to the bldg. Also, was the parking lot so full at 8:05 am a mother woukd’ve circled it, found it filled, and had to bail for one of 4 shoulder spots? why the shoulder at 8:05 am? no biggie, just curious.
Rose
We don’t know how the internet and telephone systems were set up in the Horman home. If there was a local area network via a router, there are routers to which a hard drive can be attached to be used for backing up data from any device that uses the network. Someone would have administrator privilege and as controlling as KH appears to be, it would be him.
To my knowledge Kaine’s work computer was never taken into property for search.
B
The shoulder was such a hike from the front door,
if kyron did forget something and the 3
returned to the truck to get it, plenty of folks driving up that
driveway to the lot would’ve perceived them leaving
together. They would be parked and out of sight when the
3 turned around again and reentered.
I agree with you- as long as it was an honest mistake (one way witness account) but specifically, DY and KH are well aware of TH and the kids path and timeline that day.
B
So there is nothing to indicate SZ drove
a white truck, or any truck.
@ATG. I briefly googled and it seems all one has to do to save a spouse’s emails to a laptop is create a file in C: drive then drag and drop. This merely copies so the spouse woukd not know. I bet men with certain personalities knowing divorce was in the cards would do this.
——
iirc, and I may not, TMH said on Phil she’d told K she was unhappy but he didn’t listen. imo listen meant behaviorally change, not hearing itself. Having been thru divorce and custody conflict imo he made preparations.
It is insane mcso did not get a warrant and examine the Intel hard drive.
And TMH might reflect to herself whether any emails to any person whatsoever at any time discussed divorce thinking, the steroid report, James and Kaine, Kyron and Kaine, the doctor visit, kyron and kiara, and so on.
—-
OT anecdote – M Lewinsky’s female defense attorney in Stein’s office
during the Impeachment hearings appears, with her husband, on
the former fed prosecutors’ open letter.
He worked from home frequently, that means the
Intel laptop was frequently in the house. If anything
originating with TMH was found by LE on it, that
woukd be suspicious as to him imo, since she didn’t
have privileges on his laptop. LE should have looked.
n
Current situations be as they are (Weinergate et al) absolutely. He had access to her email log ins and has admitted same. If I wanted to do that without notifications you bet I would do it on whatever environment he had partitioned at the home for work.
B
Were there other occasions that school year during the day when eled students visited other classes in small groups and where some but far from all parents were present? (getting at timing – drs’ visit – if there were other earlier opportunities).
—-
Also, Blink, did T mention to kaine she’d leave after kyron’s presentation since kiara was under the weather?
?
She did not see his presentation, she was told it was to be 6/4 and it occurred 6/3
B
re Rose says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 31, 2016 at 9:20 am
or voyeurs with compulsions would do it to a wife as well.
—-
I wonder if porn (for which one could be prosecuted) was found on a home device?
that would turn the user into an mcso/da puppet for sure.
@ Quizzical,
Option A
(rest of response redacted by Blink for investigative purposes)
Thank you for responding T.
B
Kaine’s computer from work did not belong to him. It would be company property. LE would have been required to get a search warrant from a court to seize his work computer.
In addition, I have no information that LE examined any personal devices of Kaine or Terri. Although all devices other than the company computer could have been volunteered to LE. Otherwise, LE would need a search warrant for them.
I agree Rose about the 2nd and 3rd graders generally believe the teacher. Most are not going to argue with what they say.
The real problem is that the teacher did not immediately initiate some action to find Kyron. Had that happened, SZ would not have hours to do his deed without an alarm being raised.
Sometimes the children are correct. If they seem to be concerned, then it is the teachers job to check for the reason the missing one is not present and if it is thought that a parent may have picked them up, it should be verified with the office. Poor security practices in the school are the reason this happened.
@ Quizzical
Those are the same spots that LE posed KH’s truck on the flier, are they not?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:en5q_SQtjvIJ:media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/TRUCKPressConferenceFlier.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
(cache then click on PDF link for photos)
THESE FORMS ARE DIRECTED TO ANYONE (teachers, other school employees, deliverypersons, parents, etc.) WHO WAS AT SKYLINE SCHOOL (either the buildings or grounds)
AT ANY TIME
BETWEEN 8 AM AND 4 PM ON JUNE 4, 2010
***********
Does anyone know or remember HOW these forms were disseminated by LE? I still wonder why Stenson apparently never received one, being a city employee who regularly mowed the school on Fridays, one would think he would have been given one to fill out. Were they perhaps given to the school principal to pass out to all persons he knew were at the school that day? If he forgot Stenson, isn’t it possible he forgot someone else as well?
https://www.scribd.com/document/33249250/Kyron-Horman-Questionnaire
i cannot find the url again, but yesterday I stumbled on a picture page of OR DOJ division heads, several young women among them, and wondered anew why kyron’s fulltime ADA of one year was not in those OR DOJ pictures (which her powerful Dem dad had the chops to secure)
but rather she took a political job where no law license is required.
not suggesting a bar investigation. suggesting maybe a mentor advised
her to take a time out.
Just another indication of the tone of the investigation. And OTOH TH is lied to about the use of the flier. Even if all signs pointed to TH initially, a proper investigation should have looked at the possibility of her being framed, and that her spouse would have been the person in the best position to do such a thing. Additionally, both of their contacts should have been under suspicion and investigating his online contacts should have been SOP.
A Texas Grandfather says:
October 31, 2016 at 12:34 am
snip>
To my knowledge Kaine’s work computer was never taken into property for search.
B
Rose says:
October 30, 2016 at 11:30 pm
that 2 white trucks were involved would not be coincidental. But,
what basis is there to think SZ was in a white truck? I discount any “hints” coming from mcso.
mcso was probably referring to teri and not focused on SZ at all car-wise.
—————
The possibility that SZ drove a white truck that day is what always led me to believe that the intended scape goat was Kaine
Neighbor says:
March 3, 2011 at 8:54 am
~snip
There was a white truck on the access road, but it was parked diagonal. The rear was partly on the access road and the nose pointing fairly steep down to Skyline blvd. Hope this clears things up instead of adding to the confusion. Time was about 8.31. As I recall (after many months) the GK had many spots blocked on the main parking.
****************
Is Neighbor saying Stensen parked in the main lot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIiDe5uib6c
According to this report, LE is saying TMH indeed parked in the front of the school, and this is where someone saw a person in or around the truck other than TMH.
So why are they also asking about a vehicle parked in the south lot? Was there a witness who saw someone exit a vehicle in the south lot and then walk over to the Horman truck? It has always bugged me that in the flier I linked up thread, where they are asking about parking spaces, that over by the wall at FM store it shows a silver SUV, in what is apparently where TMH told them she parked, and then the same or a similar silver SUV shows in the driveway behind the bushes in the school? Is it possible some witness saw someone get out of a silver SUV and walk over to the Horman truck?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIiDe5uib6c
@Hounddog. Apparently there’s no reason to attribute a white truck to SZ, or an associate of either Horman, apart from mcso/da’s severely misleading flier. Imo it would be OK for mcso/da to publish a pic of Kaine’s truck in Spot A on the shoulder and ask what times it was seen, ditto Meyers etc.It was NOT OK to publish misleading pics where TH did not park or allude that Kyron left the schoolwirh anyone but an unknown make, unidentified vehicle. Or if he was known, a pic of his vehicle in the spot he said he parked for his “errand.” Imo if a white truck were used, and apparently there’s zero indication if that other than an mcso fantasy poster, it would have been to frame Terri rather than kaine because it appears to have been well known in the community he did not attend school events.
Depending on the operating system mounted on a computer, it is somewhat easy to re-partition a disk so that a partition is hidden. Windows has a primitive partition manager, but third party software often provides more flexibility. The hidden partition can then be protected with a password. This is exactly how the recovery partition on a new Windows computer is able to be used to recover the system. The recovery partition is not visible as a drive since it is marked in the header software to be so.
What I was alluding to in the case of a network with a router, is that a program could have been installed that did an auto-backup for any device it finds to be connected.
T. Ruth says:
November 1, 2016 at 1:40 pm
Neighbor says:
March 3, 2011 at 8:54 am
~snip
There was a white truck on the access road, but it was parked diagonal. The rear was partly on the access road and the nose pointing fairly steep down to Skyline blvd. Hope this clears things up instead of adding to the confusion. Time was about 8.31. As I recall (after many months) the GK had many spots blocked on the main parking.
—————
I think the GK parked in the main parking because he had to get the key to the access gate that was locked and he needed to unlock it to drive up the access road to where the soccer field was so that he could mow. When he was done cutting the grass he would have relocked the gate and returned the key to the school office.
I think I read somewhere that GK’s riding lawn mower was on a trailer that was attached to his truck so he took up a lot of space in the parking lot when he stopped there so he could go into the school office.
IMO
What is odd about neighbors report is if GK was parked in the main parking lot at 8:31 AM then was he returning the key to the access gate. Would that mean the he was done cutting the grass on the soccer field at 8:30 AM like he first said to the news.
I am not completely clear if GK brought the riding lawn mower with him of if the mower was stored at the school and he had to retrieve it to mow the soccer field and return it afterward along with the key to the access road..
I visited the MCSO web site to find what are they are tasked to protect. The site indicates that they are protecting 291 sq.miles, but does not show the division between water and land. When one subtracts the water area of 34 sq.mi. it leaves 257 sq.mi. which is a little over 59% of the land area in the county.
The new org. chart for Reese does not list anyone less than a Sargent and has no one listed as in charge of River Patrol. Most org charts have a little corner block that indicates the number of people working under a charted group. Not so with this one.
T. Ruth says:
November 1, 2016 at 1:40 pm
Neighbor says:
March 3, 2011 at 8:54 am
~snip
There was a white truck on the access road, but it was parked diagonal. The rear was partly on the access road and the nose pointing fairly steep down to Skyline blvd. Hope this clears things up instead of adding to the confusion. Time was about 8.31. As I recall (after many months) the GK had many spots blocked on the main parking.
****************
Is Neighbor saying Stensen parked in the main lot?
———————————
@T.Ruth – What I recall (without looking yet) from a combination of reports and pictures in my mind, was that Stensen’s pickup and trailer were parked in the parking lot (probably horizontally taking a number of spaces if he was planning to move quickly and had a trailer attached) close to the gate while he went into the school to get the gate key. Then I thought he unlocked the gate, drove through the gate, unloaded the mower, mowed, reloaded the mower, and drove out of the access road. What I didn’t read was whether he walked back up to the school to return the key (I assume he should have)and where the vehicle was during that time. I will need to go back through my notes to check this out. (He would not need the key to lock a padlock if he left it open.) At my school, anyone who checked out a key went through the office secretary and was expected to check it in again.
I do not understand why since Desiree & Kaine knew from early days Kyron was walked out of the school room 109 by an unknown male, they have not moved heaven and earth from July 2010 on to trumpet the existance of, and attempt to identify, that male. Ordinary parents woukd have enlisted the skyline parent body on a private yahoo type listserve, but the bios were uninvolved in the school and lacked oreexisting relationships amongst parents. Divorce, kiara custody, soliciting and hoarding $, all that shoukd have taken a back seat.
Rose says:
October 27, 2016 at 10:25 pm
@erose re “If we go off of his original timeline he
The biggest impeachment of Stenson’s useful
contribution, was that he didn’t jump
in feet first (to call LE) upon his first knowledge of the disappearance.
—————
IMO
I think probably many people at the school including the children saw the GK and LE knew about him all along. We know the office personnel all saw him. Can you imagine with all of the talk and questioning done in Kyron’s case that LE would have been unaware of the GK’s presence at the school on June 4.
LE must have questioned him before KATU made his story public. LE probably did not want his story made public because it interfered with their perceived timeline. KATU must have gotten a tip about him from someone associated with the school and gotten GK to tell about his time at the school on June 4 for the news.
So when the GK’s timeline became public and ruined LE’s theory about TH being parked on the access road LE had to get him to publicly change his timeline.
@TRuth. It was famiusly said Stenson sprawled across the parking lot (oer him, 7:45 am) to go into the office and get tge gate key.
Neighbor also said his truck (white) was sprawled areoss the steep area of the access road, which a teuck hawling a nower woukd do if it backed up, as he likely wouldve done. offliaded mower cliser to the field, and make egress easier. So how’d he return the key when finished? imo I suggest his usual practice when he was over and done was not driving back to the then full lot with his long liad, but walking into the school thru the exit door adjacent to 109, and back out again.
2 things salient re stenson:
he wrote in 2010-11 he was happily married to a wonderful wife (in Gangja 3),
but soon after they had an amicable divorce.
he had a soundproof recording studio.
@TMH says:
October 31, 2016 at 2:38 pm
@ Quizzical,
Option A
(rest of response redacted by Blink for investigative purposes)
Thank you for responding T.
B
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you so much for your response. I have not wanted to assume where you parked, so it helps to know for sure. I had personally thought you may have parked in position D, as it is closer to the school and paved.
However, position A certainly makes sense. It is relatively flat, the widest place along that section of the shoulder, and it appears to have a fair amount of gravel. So, you would be far enough off the road to safely get your children out of the vehicle, you wouldn’t have other vehicles on either side of yours, you likely wouldn’t be stepping in mud, the door wouldn’t be slamming shut as you were trying to get Ki out of the car seat (assuming rear passenger side placement), and you would have a fairly wide, paved roadside to walk to the sidewalk and up to the school.
This way of parking seems similar to how it has been depicted at both Fred Meyer stores, farther away, but relatively flat, with less likelihood of vehicles on either side of yours. I have parked in both places shown at each Fred Meyer as indicated in the images to follow. It did seem the spaces on the “far rock wall”, at the Walker location, were slanted a little up towards the wall. Of course, I am assuming you actually parked where it was indicated on the flier.
Fred Meyer Imbrie
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/FredMeyerImbrieParkingWCap.jpg
Fred Meyer Walker
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/FredMeyerWalkerParkingWCap.jpg
Thank you again Quizzi.
If its ok I will take this one for TH- Yes. She did park in the spots indicated on that flyer. To my knowledge, she told LE where she was parked (actually showed them in a recorded trip/statement as well). This was before she learned she was also captured on CCTV in the lot. My point in mentioning this is two-fold:
1. LE confirmed TH timeline and account via video confirmation by Monday June 7, without informing her, btw. That would obviously include the knowledge Kyron was not with her.
2. TH absolutely hated to drive the truck- she would park as far away as she could because one time at a Walmart she got stuck and had to ask 2 cart return dudes to “wave” her out safely so she did not hit anything.
B
T. Ruth says:
October 31, 2016 at 3:25 pm
THESE FORMS ARE DIRECTED TO ANYONE (teachers, other school employees, deliverypersons, parents, etc.) WHO WAS AT SKYLINE SCHOOL (either the buildings or grounds)
AT ANY TIME
BETWEEN 8 AM AND 4 PM ON JUNE 4, 2010
***********
Does anyone know or remember HOW these forms were disseminated by LE? I still wonder why Stenson apparently never received one, being a city employee who regularly mowed the school on Fridays, one would think he would have been given one to fill out. Were they perhaps given to the school principal to pass out to all persons he knew were at the school that day? If he forgot Stenson, isn’t it possible he forgot someone else as well?
https://www.scribd.com/document/33249250/Kyron-Horman-Questionnaire
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@T.Ruth – I didn’t see a date on the document – do we know when these were given out? The return date was June 20th, after school was out. Secretary and Principal should still have been working anyway, so it’s possible they could have taken the list of who was there and mailed the forms out to students and employees. I would have mailed them to everyone enrolled in school, on the list or not, and every staff member. Staff that was actually district, not school-based, would not have an address on file at the school unless on an emergency contact card (itinerant, subs, delivery, etc.)
If the forms were ready before school was out for the year, it wouldn’t surprise me if they were given to kids to take home. Even though not a very reliable method, I’ve seen some pretty important information sent home with kids – postage is expensive. Of course there is no data base that would include all the addresses of students, delivery people, staff, volunteers, the daycare staff and students, and employees, such as Stensen, who were not from PPS.
Seems to me the whole thing is dependent on a few already upset people with access to confidential information getting together to try to figure out who to send to and how. I’d love to know how many were returned and who they thought was skillful enough to compile the information in a useful manner without overlooking anything. As long as they are doing it, seems better to send too many out than not enough – what’s a little more overtime here or there.
links were old – took the out because it wouldn’t post, but have them
update 11-1-16
Since we are revisiting Stensen’s timeline (and key) again, here are excerpts from my past notes (keep in mind the level of information we had at the time):
(snipped from katu news)
Stensen told a reporter earlier in the week that he cut the grass on the soccer field between 7:45 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. and never saw the truck on the road.
He had to use the gravel access road to get to the soccer field, only he apparently used it before and after that half-hour window of time.
He met with two detectives and a deputy district attorney at Skyline School early Friday to go over his timeline in detail.
Stensen told investigators that he left Skyline School as late as 8:45 a.m. or 9 a.m., which means he could have missed seeing the Horman truck being in the two spots investigators are interested in, especially since he spent his time and attention at the school mowing the soccer field. Investigators say that puts him on the gravel road outside of the critical half-hour window they want to know about since they have witnesses who saw someone in or around the Hormans’ truck during that time.
“It would be impossible for me to either enter [ENTER] the field or exit [EXIT] the field if there was a car parked on the gravel road itself,” he said. “And then while exiting the roadway, if there was somebody parked that close to that hillside, it would have made it difficult for me to see who’s coming down the hill (on Skyline Boulevard), I mean it would seem to me like I would have remembered, ‘Oh gee yeah,’ there was a big white truck in my way when I left that day. I would say I’m certain that it wasn’t there.”
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(snips katu news)
Stensen’s own truck, with a trailer on the back, would have been parked in the area investigators are asking about, at least briefly, as he came and went that morning.
It would have been there on the way in, as he got out of the truck to unlock the padlock on the chain that allows him access to the field. It would have been on that road on his way out as he went behind the truck to put the chain back in place.
Investigators are talking to Stensen and checking his information against what they’ve gathered. They say they find him credible.
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MBS wrote: The interview with Stensen mentions the gate is padlocked and he had to open it. I don’t think he ever was quoted as saying he had to go to the office to get the key. However, Neighbor said he had “many spots blocked on the main parking” – it seems to me he would only do that if he had to go get the key because if he had a key with him, he would have pulled straight onto the access road up to the padlocked gate. IMO, he would not have parked the whole time in the main lot, unloaded and ridden the mower all the way to the field.
The timeline that makes the most sense is:
Groundskeeper arrives and parks across spaces with his trailer in the main lot because it is early and people aren’t arriving yet. He goes to the office to get the key and back to his truck. He has moved his truck to the soccer field and is cutting the grass before 8 AM.
Terri arrives at 8 AM. Both Skyline Parent and Neighbor said there was a white truck parked there. It was not GK’s because he had a trailer and a sign on the side of his truck identifying it as a Portland Parks truck. If it was NOT Kaine’s truck, it still doesn’t change the timeline.
Terri leaves – she says 8:45. GK says he left at 8:45 or maybe 9AM. We know he saw kids come outside to look at the garden area while he was mowing. Most kids came by bus at 8:35, would have gone to their rooms to deposit their stuff and then started moving around the building. Therefore, I think he was pretty accurate with his timeline being closer to 9, especially since he may have had to return the key to the office. He didn’t need the key to lock the padlock, but most people would pull through the gate, lock it, then walk up to return the key. [GK could have had a parks department key, but coaches and others may have needed a key, and GK traveled to other parks department properties, giving him a big bunch of keys to keep straight if he carried them everywhere.] If this is correct, the GK would not have noticed any vehicle parked in the area they were asking about.
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from care2 com (excerpts)
“Although the school usually opens at 8:35 a.m. and the final bell rings 10 minutes later, the school opened as early as 8 Friday for the science fair, said Matt Shelby, spokesman for Portland Public Schools.”
[I think the 8:45 time turned up a lot because that was a time the bell normally rang, making it easier for people to recall.]
post for 1-4-13
Regarding Dave Stenson, our groundskeeper – I remembered –
beejay says:
September 26, 2010 at 8:46 pm
I’m worn out. I do believe everything points to Ky’s fate intersecting with something more extensive. There are several really good theories here, but there’s only one truth. And until we know more facts, we won’t know which theory fits best.
But I’ll tell you this: if Dave Stensen, turf technician and great ol’ rocker, is involved, I’ll be torn up. I listened to the interview of him talk about his work at Skyline that morning. He talks straight. He’s cool, man. He’s just a never-grow-old survivor of the sixties who came out with his head on straight after all the drugs and stuff going on then–esp. a young guy in the music world (he was what–17 or so when he joined the Grass Roots; @ 1966? Year I graduated from high school). He’s alright; I promise ya.
—————————————–
MBS says: I never had a problem with him changing his timeline after he thought about it because I don‘t believe he knew the finer details of the Skyline schedule that day [he thought kids might be coming out to play soccer when there was actually no PE that morning]. I think he was guessing at his schedule, but when told the buses arrived and kids had to put their stuff away before they could come outside to look at plants, he would have realized the time he saw the kids was probably later than he thought at first, therefore he must have left a bit later than he thought. There were 2 bells that rang to start school – which also provided a time reference for people, but since he didn’t work for the school, he would only have thought of that if it was pointed out to him. He should have been wearing ear protection and may not have heard bells anyway.
From his perspective, if he was actually talking about the kids that released the butterflies, as I understand it, his timeline is definitely closer to 9AM.
B
I stand corrected by myself, and Google Earth. The walk up the road to the crosswalk is well graveled but not paved. Of course, these images are from 2016 not 2010.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Truck%20Position/Front%20Towards%20Crosswalk_zpsbjt2j72a.jpg
It would be unlikely Stensen could have seen the truck in the place TMH indicated she parked it while he was mowing the field. TMH being parked there also calls into great question Neighbor’s sighting of the diagonal truck at 8.31, unless, of course, THM did observe his truck directly in front of her truck, when she first parked there, when they returned to get K’s backpack, or when she and Ki returned to leave the grounds. Or, Stensen could have lied about not seeing a truck on that roadside when he left at about 8:30a as he originally stated.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Truck%20Position/Front%20Towards%20Field_zpswwqyjmdx.jpg
Noticed a runoff drain grate in the area where TMH parked the truck. That could be a good “landmark” to indicate the exact place where TMH parked if she recalled the position of the truck relative to the grate.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Truck%20Position/Front%20Drain%20Grate_zpsk4disoli.jpg
Quizzi- if I may- I would like to ask your opinion on something as BOC’s resident GPS mapping savant. I know I have seen tracks leaving the upper grass area past the main lot ( ultimately ends in a tree line if one were to go straight) that seemed to head into the soccer field area. I was wondering- in your opinion, could Stenson have driven his truck/trailer **OR** just the mower from the upper lot down to the soccer field? If yes, in my view, he only needs to unlock that gate to go out (or I guess go around it potentially but I did not think that was an option) once.
Not gonna lie ( this is a terrible expression I realize I picked up from a friend recently, lol) that grate pinged that sunken area for me. Dear Jesus let that have been checked thoroughly. I am going to have answers to your follow up questions- but for now I will say neighbors account checks out 100%.
B