Dr. Phil Show Hosts Missing Portland Child Kyron Horman’s Step Mom Terri Horman Over Two Episodes
I have been covering this case since Kyron Horman disappeared from Skyline School in June, 2010. Like most missing persons cases I have covered in the past, I am of the strong opinion that best efforts at the truth are the only way to propel investigations that, similarly to Kyron’s, have gone cold for one reason or another. This approach has worked in resolving some of my previous cases. I am proud of that. I remain steadfast to the integrity involved in those and future cases.
Over the past 10 months (or so) I have been developing an updated series on Kyron’s case to include my multiple interviews with Kyron’s step-mom, Terri Horman. Needless to say as she was the subject of at least three simultaneous cases before an Oregon court and remains a person of interest by the agency investigating her sons disappearance, this has been an arduous and sometimes delicate journey. Ms. Horman’s experiences during the ongoing investigation of the disappearance of Kyron Horman are critically important to propelling his case and with great hope- finding the truth about what happened to this cherubic and innocent child. There are dozens of sources, collateral interviews, forensic experts and legal analysts that also contribute to my series and have done so because of their belief that my motivation is to bring to light information and opinions in such a way that would almost “require” a focused review of Kyron’s case and the likely shaking of that proverbial tree everyone talks about.
Set to publish about 6-ish weeks ago I was asked to postpone the first installment of the series, which I did. I subsequently learned Ms. Horman was participating in the Dr. Phil program after she completed taping. Dr. Phils producers were well aware that Ms. Horman had interviewed with me extensively, and anticipated my series would be publishing information that was not known to the public previously in the days prior to her scheduled episode. When Ms. Horman conveyed to me that she feels obligated to speak out about “her son” in any national medium that will have her, I most certainly respected that. I still do.
While Dr. Phil seems like a gregarious fellow for sure, I have zero interest in being associated with his program, nor do I believe his shows content is designed to do any furtherance of investigation or truth. There is much concern (although I have no affiliation to the show whatsoever) that the timing of the publication of my series on the Kyron Horman matter might be interpreted differently or inadvertently contribute to the programs content or audience reactions. Not what I signed on for. A missing 7 year old boy six years running is not a framework for entertaining a target audience. He is not fodder for online social media bully campaigns- yet it occurs.
I will be publishing my series on Kyron’s case at a later date, in it’s entirety with no editing adjustments as a result of any of the appearances on Dr. Phil. I appreciate your patience and your understanding. Feel free to discuss the show below.
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I see Lee gosson on mcso staff in Oct 2010 working with Det James Erickson.
He was also on a 2010 county child welfare work group,
what’s happened with him since?
He had moved to inspections under Staton and then I do not know- last I checked he had not retired, but that was some time ago.
He has the best peer reputation of anyone I have ever interviewed that knew or worked with him…. And that is going to include a few folks that would not speak to me re Kyron’s case (unauthorized and open investigation) but thought very highly of him professionally. He was originally Bobby O’Donnell’s immediate supervisor in Kyron’s case.
B
So in may 2010 his title was Acting Detective Sgt.
In 2014 he was Inspections Sgt in Corrections
http://multnomah.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=3&clip_id=848&meta_id=55963
So I think Staton did his usual to nonsuckups.
Sorry, I did not see this before I responded in a different comment. Thanks Rose.
B
that is, Krafve beat gosson out for
the permanent det sgt position
at some point after Oct 2010.
whatever reassignment of sgt gosson was made it was after this investigator met with him and his partner Det James Erickson, because soon after the investigator continued to work just with Erickson as investigation partner.
http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/254352/discovery-original-1-1151.pdf
Wasn’t the Task Force brought into being about then? Reorganized Gosson right out of the detectives unit imo.
that meeting where he was still acting det unit head was Oct 13 2010
well blow me down.
The day Oct 13 that investigator (url above) met Sgt Det Gossen Oct 13 was the day the Task Force was constituted and announced and Krafve took over the TF and presumeably the detective init as Gosson “disappeared” thereafter:
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/KHTaskForceBusPlanWallsMedia_release.pdf
I wonder who putting together the TF (see staffing list) insisted on Gosson’s reassignment?
I really bet it had to do with that FAIR investigation and perhaps Gosson was seen as too fair
to stay in charge.
OT how did he escape?
http://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2017/03/10/trump-keeps-us-attorney-for-oregon-billy-williams-for-now/
may 2011
p5
http://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2017/03/10/trump-keeps-us-attorney-for-oregon-billy-williams-for-now/
apparently what Inspections means is Gosson ran the property closet, disposing of misc confiscated good by auction or within the Dept.
no he did not have Staton’s ear.
he had been a competent detective for years, with
chikd sex abuse case experience.
imo given what we now know of Staton’s consistent problems of explosive temperment and behavior on the job to all, incl the highest command levels, imo he drove the Terri Target Train whatever his probably deceptive musings were to the press.
The more we discuss and investigate the more convinced I am that LE and the courts in Multnomah county immediately went into cover-up mode for the Portland School system. They then picked a target in the home and used all the tricks they could apply to pin the whole thing on TH.
This will never be about finding Kyron. It is all about making something out of nothing.
From experience, it is not difficult to determine when a child has difficulty in a classroom and to identify what the problem is. Finding the actual cause requires some investigation.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.oregonlive.com/articles/5362298/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.amp
Tiny, I had to laugh at your comment. You’ve described this city perfectly, especially the “sinister undertones” part. You know Oregon’s state bird is the Western Meadowlark; Oregon’s state flower is the Oregon Grape; Oregon’s state personality disorder is Passive-Aggressive. It would help Mr. Dickey if he learned that one real fast.
Tiny says:
March 9, 2017 at 9:43 am
lord have mercy wrt Soldier’s latest off topic Terri Chase: My comment on Desiree’s Soldiers’ FB posts:
blink would never let anyone have doublenames or masquerade.
Soldier is a poseur (look that word up). As well as:
1. sick (psychologically)
2. stupid (zero abstract reasoning ability + all writings demonstrate subaverage iq)
3. syncophant, following her Principal’s opinions and press edicts.
4. seeking a Following, site is click hungry (a dialing 4 $).
& in good company with proven psychos like her obsequient follower jonesr.
she is knowingly not credible when
opining that certain writing styles
and mental processes are identifiably Terri.
So what else is she out to lunch on.
It is the Davidsons’ monetary and phileo
closeness to Soldier that imo strips them of credibility.
Erickson who was Sgt Gosson’s supervisee and partner in Oct 2010 has made Lt.
Gulberg, who was also a regular deputy then has made Captn.
https://www.mcso.us/profiles/pdf/org_chart.pdf
I guess tgere was fallout for Gosson as he was lead
derective during the endless searches, the RO, and the sting.
—-
Why don’t the “read and approve”
Davidson sisters reel in Soldier’s flamboyant, brazen lies?
But rather they thank and appreciate.
That’s something that doesn’t pass a smell test.
—–
http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-12305-the-kyron-files.html
Reviewing this I see Tony had rolled thru 2 previous LE jobs.
He prided himself on being a “go between” between the bios and investigators.
“having a cop close by has benefited the family, with Tony working as a bridge to investigators—helping determine when the family releases information they believe will help solve the case. ”
Perfectly situated to influence the investigation imo.
@Rose says:March 10, 2017 at 4:17 pm
Looks like Billy didn’t get the axe. Yet.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/03/us_attorney_for_oregon_expects.html
U.S. Attorney Billy Williams on Friday said he’s not among the 46 prosecutors whose resignations were requested by Attorney General Jeff Sessions.
Sessions’ request applies to presidential appointees. But Williams wasn’t appointed by President Barack Obama.
He served as acting U.S. attorney after Amanda Marshall resigned amid a sexual harassment investigation. Early last year, he was appointed to the post by Chief District Judge Michael W. Mosman.
Williams, a longtime federal prosecutor, said he expects to continue to continue in the position until the confirmation of a presidential appointee.
@evie. I expect Sessions wants
further Malheur prosecutions on him
rather than a Trump appointee.
Rose says:
March 11, 2017 at 9:18 am
She is knowingly not credible when
opining that certain writing styles
and mental processes are identifiably Terri.
So what else is she out to lunch on.
———-
Recently she told her followers that Dede took the 5th amendment 142 time when she testified before the grand jury.
When in reality Dede took the 5th 142 times when she testified for a Deposition in
Desiree’s failed lawsuit against Terri which was a bunch of BS just done on Desiree’s part for grandstanding and was dropped because it had no merit.
When Dede testified before the grand jury she did not use the 5th amendment at any time I am not sure that you can even use the 5th when testifying before the grand jury.
Soldier consistently lies and stretches the truth to her brainless followers as does her pal TJ.
Also I would like to add that Soldier is fully aware that Rose is not Terri but she continues to lie about that also. How can her followers even believe a word she says??? I understand that they believe that Terri is involved in Kyrons disappearance but how can they swallow all of soldiers lies.
@atg. from what blink says, it seems a pps, or parent-privately hired early childhood professional opined Kyron’s classroom behavior, during an admittedly probably brief slice of time, was not out of the average for males his age.
based on that brief one time professional observation, it may be likely Porter carded him episodically for inattentive in her purview rather than rambunctious.
keith kafvre has headed the mcso detectives unit & the Kyron investigation since Oct 2010, apparently.
Yet in the last 6-1/2 yrs his press has bedn zilch wrt cases solved and prosecuted compared to his pre2010 mcso career. Why?
First of all, Ms. Green, as you point out, is repeatedly deceptive and malicious in her posts. I do not read there ever so my only info is usually something passed along. At no time in Ms. Spicher’s extensive testimony before the grand jury did she invoke her right against self incrimination and a subsequent polygraph, administered at her request included confirmation that her testimony, in its entirety, was truthful. By her own civil Attorneys admission Ms. Young withdrew her suit prior to the abatement lapse due to Ms. Spicher’s testimony and subsequent polygraph. Spicher was prepared to answer the questions of the civil suit she could not answer previously and doing so would have provided fodder for a counter suit.
Sadly, the defamation , harrassment and stalking of this woman has ONLY served to demonstrate what an innocent and well intentioned individual can expect for cooperating without any regard to personal compromise in this case. Shameful.
B
Just reminding I would not suggest Kyron was observed for evaluation purposes by this individual, nor were they made aware that Terri requested observations from Porter for a pending Dr. Appt. I just want to be sure I am not mischaracterizing by omission here.
@cd. actually, that particular lie is a conveniece.
The meaningful Q is how can anyone, esp media interviewers, believe
a single word either Davidson says, since they “read and approve.”
Would’ve been enlightening to see Terri’s tort defense
attorney put both Youngs on the stand in her suit.
I believe that is a very large looming reason why the suit was withdrawn in the first place- both DY and TY were scheduled for their depositions twice and cancelled the day before, both times.
B
Rose
A second grade student is still learning how to behave in school and to respond to questions during class instruction. Some students are not outgoing in their behavior and are reluctant to raise their hands to be called on for an answer. The reverse of that is a student who wants attention and raises their hand to be called on and never has the answer to the question.
One of the tasks a teacher has is to identify both of those behaviors and take steps to correct them. One way is to notice which students are reluctant to raise their hands and directly call on them for the answer even though their hand was not raised. The method to correct the gregarious ones is to ask them if they think that they have the answer and let the class know that Johnny or Sissy does not have the answer. This has to be done in a gentle way to not hurt their feelings in today’s classroom.
In my day, after several tries with a student that did not have the answer, the teacher would simply tell the student not to raise their hand unless they did have the answer. If their feelings got damaged somewhat, it was no big thing and was considered a way to get the student to be more careful.
IMO the carding system is one of the most foolish systems ever devised for behavior. I have had music students who were given a card. Those students quickly figured out that they could have bad behavior and when the teacher tried to correct them, they pulled out their card to shut down the correction effort. Most of the time those students were not stupid or dumb. They never had proper discipline in the home or school.
By the way, the root for discipline is Greek which means knowledge. This means in the case of a classroom proper student behavior is required and is acquired through knowledge.
Another child is the one being observed, not Kyron, yet a trained professional as such was never contacted by LE. They were more concerned with a third grade teacher who crossed paths with TH 30 plus years ago. No hope here still.
What I cannot figure out ( or I choose not to form a negative conclusion) is why absent a scintilla of evidence they continue to be fixated on this woman when it is unequivocal Kyron did not leave the school with her. I keep repeating myself. Even if they became convinced by some sort of statistical probability (real or via exclusion) it was TH- SZ is a multi-corroborated fact they cannot connect her to in any way. Any conclusions I draw consistently lead to lack of experience and ass covering- and I do not say that lightly.
B
Personal opinion is that little Kyron saw some distasteful activities in the home that he couldn’t understand, so acted out. The parents responsible for the problems were so wrapped in their own behaviors that he just kind of fell by the wayside. Outsiders who saw probably decided that he deserved neither. Bad outsiders.
@A Texas Grandfather says: March 10, 2017 at 7:47 pm
From experience, it is not difficult to determine when a child has difficulty in a classroom and to identify what the problem is. Finding the actual cause requires some investigation.
Happy National Sunshine Week!
(snipped)
In addition to state laws in Indiana and across the country, the Freedom of Information Act gives citizens the right to obtain information from the federal government – information that your tax dollars paid to collect. In addition, more and more local governments are leveraging technology to make public information, from traffic data to public transit schedules, even more accessible and more useful to citizens.
This week and every week, take a moment to consider what your life would be like if government officials operated in total secrecy and restricted your access to information. Support organizations fighting against those in power who seek to weaken open government protections. Join with fellow citizens in seeking disclosure. When you want information from a police department, local government or school board, ask for it.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUNSHINE_WEEK_STEWART_COLUMN?SITE=AZTUS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-03-12-00-16-47
***********
And here’s what I don’t get, why did not one reporter ask for an accounting of the money spent on the Kyron Horman case, to date? That info, would NOT in any way affect the status of an “ongoing” case. Why did not one reporter ask PPS what exactly was purged that LE was seeking from them, and whether or not that purging was common practice hencetofore?
If DY and family truly want an update and aren’t or haven’t received any, why not go this route as well? And if the Davidson’s cronies really want an update, instead of picketing the DA’s website, why not do a public records request? Whatever monies have been spent on this case, is absolutely public information, and IF this case is still being staffed by detectives, that information should be public as well.
Example:
http://www.registercitizen.com/article/RC/20110120/NEWS/301209995
In Smolinski case, Freedom of Information Act exposed police inaction, rallied families of missing persons
(snipped)
“At the beginning, we couldn’t get any attention from anyone,” she said.
The FOIA requests, which exposed significant mishandling of the case and shed light on the lack of attention that adult missing persons cases can receive from police, weren’t filed by a newspaper or TV station.
(snipped)
****************
In addition to the $$$’s spent being public information, I would think the recent blatant cover-ups performed by the Portland PUBLIC School System, would surely warrant a FOIA on any emails, transpiring in and out of Skyline before and after Kyron went missing. I mean if these folks are covering up something as fixable as minute amounts of lead in the drinking water, what does that say they would do should I child go missing under their watch? Not to mention the cover-up of a coach implemented for YEARS in sexual deviance by just shuffling him along?
What’s that old saying? They treat me like a mushroom: keep me in the dark and feed me BS! I say, let the sun shine in! Oh, gosh that reminds me of that poem someone wrote to the O about Kyron should be on the sunnyside. Well he should! Let the Sun Shine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPK7ZF6jfJE
not I child go missing, I meant : a child go missing. Sorry for typo.
@Ode. re ” They were more concerned with a third grade teacher who crossed paths with TH 30 plus years ago. ”
Timingwise, Blink, had TH yet moved to CA at the time the 2 went there to see a 3 decade old teacher? when did Houze make that comment? Is there a press link?
If she had moved to CA already, that teacher was a mere ruse for other “investigative activity.”
Visiting County DAs and Sheriffs, briefing them on the “case,” asking for assistance.
If not, the 2 dudes wanted a junket at govt expense.
Since Krafve was head of the Task Force Oct 2010 & thereafter head of the detective unit, I assume he was one.
Dependent in timing, other was the fulltime line level detective. If later in time that woukd be Det Relentless Aggressive. If earlier, O’Donnell or his ilk. I see krafve more likely wanting to train and impress a newbie on hus staff like Det RA. than Det Bobby O.
Years prior to her move Rose.
B
If there was a child in Kyron’s classroom whose parents requested he/she be observed, it makes me wonder if the reasons for said observation were similar to any of the same reasons for which TMH was requesting information on Kyron’s school behavior, as well as the at home *zoning out*.
It’s none of my business and I’m not trying to ID any particular kid, of course, but if there were multiple students within the same classroom who recently started behaving quite differently than usual, both at home and at school, and yet the parent(s) couldn’t put a cause to such behaviors, which would warrant professional observation, it makes one wonder just what was going on. Or maybe it was just one more coincidence, or too many red cards being sent home (or whatever color the negative ones were). IDK, just thinking outloud.
@ATG.
wrt “Most of the time those students were not stupid or dumb. They never had proper discipline in the home or school.”
Whether her method was right or wrong, age appropriate or not,
Terri appears to have been the only parent trying to offer discipline
to kyron in the home relating to teacher complaints whole Kaine
apparently undermined both ladies. On the other hand,
Kaine’s discipline of James seems to have been overly strict re home chores
but also negligent re school skipping and grades.
@Blink re “I believe that is a very large looming reason why the suit was withdrawn in the first place- both DY and TY were scheduled for their depositions twice and cancelled the day before, both times.
B”
http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/09/21/dr-phil-show-hosts-missing-portland-child-kyron-hormans-step-mom-terri-horman-over-two-episodes/#comments
Imo the suit was as likely withdrawn due to attorney Elden realizing information potentially leading to self incrimination about unrelated matters from their past and realizing he must prevent those depos as it was to DDS clearing herself and being ready to depo. Imo to DY’s suit, DDS was collateral, not her target in chief, and there were many ways to get at Terri without DDS. The only reason for Elden to take a bye on both Young depos twice was that those 2 might have criminally implicated one or the other in some matter. and he was unaware of that when he filed the case.
I remain convinced that at the time LE prevailing theory was that DDS either helped her (TH) willfully or unwittingly, the dividing line of belief among members of the DA team and MCSO might be on the willful v unwitting question. Initially, I understood the line of investigation (as did Spicher) but certainly not the methods (Frink- seriously, that guy). As I am fluent in grand jury strategy from a prosecution perspective, you can assume Spicher was one of the last called before the 2nd gj (if not the last) and you can assume from the outcome no indictment was issued against TH. Spicher is permitted by Oregon law to discuss her own testimony of course, but Elden does not get the call until AFTER Spicher takes the polygraph, confirming her truthfulness in her testimony before it.
I know I have said this before, and I have had additional source based conversations that further support my thinking on this- I am also certain that NOBODY in any area of LE expected Spicher to pass that polygraph. That is just how far out on a limb they went with her and to this day it makes absolutely no sense to me when I know that there are witness statements, sworn testimony and other evidence acknowledging Kyron leaving the classroom with SZ. Yes, DY et al could have withdrawn the motion to compel, but you can bet Stavley would have filed a response to indicate Spicher’s complete vindication and notice to Young that should her public defamatory comments continue- she would be the subject of a suit herself.
I personally do not believe the Young’s were concerned about a criminal allegation arising from their depositions and I am not aware of any potential for an accusation. It is my belief that knowledge of Spicher’s testimony and ensuing polygraph completely contradicted the claims made in Young’s suit in a definitive way. Young’s suit was without merit as to its claims and Kantor already ordered Horman’s team to enter appearances and essentially defend it. In my view, faced with this new information that would of course be shared, Horman would have filed a counter suit, complete with the very public facing info that LE’s central figure as to Horman execution of this crime was “never a suspect.”
Now, even if none of the above had actually happened, there are other issues I believe would have been raised- as an example, the crowd sourcing of what is a contingency suit and its disbursements by a third party (sister), and without question information related to visitation and custodial parenting time, to include DY’s relinquish of custody of both her children and her failure to seek restoration of same upon return, immediate cohabitation with Young five hours away, Kaine’s deposition and of course TH defense to DY claims and counter claims- DY would likely be looking at personal damages, not an award. Sadly, if the suits intention had been structured to develop investigative information to progress Kyron’s case- which I would have supported potentially, she would have named the school.
DY knew that Kyron did not leave the school with Horman then and she knows it now. Her public commentary which appeared to influence opinion that he had (DNA in the back of the vehicle of Kyron’s) caused me to feel embarrassed FOR HER. Respectfully submitted- the reason given that LE would NOT be providing investigative files (or words to the effect) was well known prior to the filing. What became known was that those files were now walking around with the ability to speak about them and it adequately refuted the legal theory Terri Horman kidnapped or secreted Kyron herself or through a third party.
One last thought because honestly, I get pretty riled up discussing Ms. Spicher and what she went through in this case. Upon Desiree learning of Spicher’s “never a suspect” DA stance, and whatever specifics she was or was not given, you would think she would have arranged a meeting through counsels to apologize to her for what she put her through publicly, even thanked her for cooperating at her own detriment.
You would think a Mother looking for her child as DY purports to be doing would take such new information, which at the time essentially meant 3+ years had been wasted on this “investigative avenue” and had been an egregious waste of time in efforts to locate him would be using her subsequent appearance on Phil to generate leads.
I have been in the very unfortunate position of having to inform a parent that an LE investigative track was wrong or even presented falsely to them for a protracted period of time, directly stagnating or obfuscating an investigation. Next to the ensuing conversation to include “we/I believe (insert name) has been located and efforts are underway to recover remains” it has been one of the hardest conversations to have. That said, and to their significant credit, every time that occurred and the parent or parents brought this to the attention of the investigating agency (depending on protocol I have had to do this myself) the end result was immediate action, steps for correction and refocus and ultimately, recovery and adjudication. I am not saying bringing such information to light in a criminal investigation surrounding a missing persons case is a pleasant experience. I don’t write about the specifics of cases I work on personally to date, but I will make this one exception in abstract- in one case evidence LE discarded was developed indicating LE was incorrect in its identification of an individual on CCTV. Basically- it supported a POI alibi. In 3 years, no fam member had ever been shown the footage. I arranged a meeting between the investigator and family member- longer story but in short- the individual whom they maintained was actually the missing individual was not. He was however, wearing an item belonging to him. My client learned this on the way to the meeting, called me in a hysterical and inconsolable state to the point I made them pull off the road until they were able to collect themselves safely. It was undeniable that in 3 years the investigator never even bothered to review the tape personally until then- if he had, he would have known without reservation who it was and who it was not (POI had a very intricate and visible sleeve tat- missing person did not).
We are rounding the corner on 7 years an innocent and helpless little boy was abducted and I believe, murdered. Who the eff is going to do right by him in a position to do so already?
B
@Blink, re “What I cannot figure out ( or I choose not to form a negative conclusion) is why absent a scintilla of evidence they continue to be fixated on this woman when it is unequivocal Kyron did not leave the school with her.”
wet mcso personnel the lack if experience, ass covering, but also imo former Sheriff’s authoritarian hand managing the org chaos he created. Wrt Youngs and Horman it differs. imo Terri focus is diversionary, smoke & mirrors, to conceal some personal failing(s) or history from the public.
What was the actual situation at Skyline School regarding administration and teaching staff?
Skyline was for the time of the abduction an old type school meaning a Grammar school with grades from 1 to 8. It had been originally built in 1939 with upgrades and new structures added over time.
How experienced was the school administrative staff. And how much control did the PPS superintendent and staff exercise at the schools?
An abduction of a child from school is an event that should have led to civil suits by the parents. The problem with this case is that the bio parents did not take those steps. TH was the real mother of Kyron, but since she never had the opportunity to adopt him, she had no legal position towards a civil suite.
I really think that the school realized that Kyron was missing by 9:30 A.M.. They then used time to concoct the story about the doctor appointment to release themselves from liability. With the inexperience and duplicity of PPB and MCSO they pointed the direction of the case towards TH.
I also think that KH was and may still be in trouble regarding illegal steroid use that also affected officers of PPB and MCSO. Both agencies were mad because TH had outed KH’s steroid use that affected their officers.
Why did the FBI do so little regarding the abduction investigation? We don’t have factual information, but I suspect the agent in charge realized that he lacked experience in abductions and maybe most of his agents fell in the same category.
Taking a stance in an investigation that excludes all others rather than to do proper investigations and let the evidence lead them is totally unprofessional. That is, unless one is very lucky, the path to a cold unsolved case.
Just my personal take on your post if I may-
I don’t think Kaine fears criminal charges from the former steroid use/purchase. I do know that some arrests of his associates occurred as a result of this investigation and a few became CI’s to avoid criminal charges. That is fact. Kaine admitted use and purchase dating back to 2005 in a deposition and it would not surprise me to learn he either had some sort of immunity or simply the statute of limitations ran out OR the good grace afforded a victim who’s son is missing- I don’t know.
Interestingly, the school (Porter) DID NOT use Kyron’s pending Dr. appt as the excuse as to where she thought he was. It is actually far more negligent, imo. Porter testified she believed Kyron left with Horman to attend a Dr. appt for Kitty that had actually occurred the day before. Compounding to that lunacy was the fact that at no time had Kyron been removed from school to attend a Dr. appt with his sister previously and she admitted she was told about the pending appointment and confirmed the request for her observational feedback to be included. Obviously, this does not address his jacket and backpack sitting in the classroom or the email from Terri she sent her around 1 asking if Kyron’s project needed to be picked up today (after Horman learned some shirts she ordered for Desiree would not be coming with him that day- I believe TH emailed DY on that around the same time). Kaine was privvy to Porter’s deposition (among others) so as far as he is concerned I have no idea why he did not bring suit- DY I covered earlier.
My investigation and research has not produced any evidence that the school knew or believed Kyron was MISSING before TH called from the bus- it does include evidence that it was known he was not in the building when he was marked absent, Porter did not respond to an email from TH around 1 re picking up his project that day, and Porter’s assertion she thought (admittedly incorrectly) Kyron was with Terri and Kitty at a Kitty Dr. appt. I personally believe Porter was negligent in her standard of care responsibility, maybe reckless, that would be up to a trier of fact, but I did not get the impression she made attempts to hide it- although she has certainly never come forward publicly as she was told not to.
The FBI was only ever in an assist mode in Kyron’s case. MCSO was and is in charge. To my knowledge, MCSO has never requested an FBI review of Kyron’s case because I have no doubt in my mind it would or will lead to an internal investigation re potential for corruption once one throws in the Staton mess and settlements paid out- there is extensive history (Guisto)- not making an accusation. The former head of FBI Portland office’s son is now a civilian member of MCSO or MC (fact check me Rose please).
Both Kaine and Desiree have the right as well as the opportunity to request a meeting with the FBI as well as the right and opportunity to request ODOJ review of the case so far.
B
I believe that is a very large looming reason why the suit was withdrawn in the first place- both DY and TY were scheduled for their depositions twice and cancelled the day before, both times.
B
*******
Interesting tidbit that ^^.
ot re police interrogation training techniques:
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2017/03/07/the-seismic-change-in-police-interrogations#.FfCRLpLRF
I can’t speak to anyone else’s training within Reid protocol, but I hold advanced certs (2012, 2013) to include juvenile and diminished capacity interview and I was never taught to use trickery or deceipt, in fact, I was trained that is a statutory and or legally permissible approach but could lead to false confessions- also extensive training in avoiding and determining potential for them. That said, I am not LE. Until statute precludes trickery and deceipt of investigators in the first place I am not sure the method of delivery matters. As delicately as I can put this- preventing false confessions would be better served by people understanding and practicing that if you are the suspect of a police interview you must never under any circumstances agree to be interviewed outside of counsel, not ever. Go ahead and ask a cop if they would, lol.
B
the mcso org chart was, per google, apparently updated 3/1/17.
https://www.mcso.us/profiles/pdf/org_chart.pdf
I looked closer and realized Lt Ned Walls, chief of
investigations, is likely a more key investigation figure than Krafve.
He recommended apparently that Krafve be retained in position under Reese.
yes. Walls was the “investigation overseer in 2012 who press
released alt news:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/11/multnomah_county_sheriff_cites.html
walls was/is drawn to helping male students in sports:
“Ned Walls | LinkedIn
LinkedIn › ned-walls-34013a36
Portland, Oregon Area – Varsity Defensive Line Coach at Wilsonville Varsity Football – Wilsonville Varsity Football”
@Rose
I remember the comment made about some interviews going on in California, IIRC, the comment was made by Bunch within one of his divorce documents. So, is this when the 3rd grade teacher was being interviewed? I always figured Bunch was referring to interviews being done by their team, not LE. But IDK?????
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/08/kyron_horman_moms_suit_can_go.html
According to Bunch, a grand jury continues to meet and the criminal investigation is proceeding. He said in court there have been interviews conducted in California and Oregon.
“I appreciate that Ms. Young is frustrated with police, but they’re still out there doing their job,” Bunch said. “This is an active, ongoing investigation with a laser pointed at my client. Let the police and grand jury do their job.”
*************
Judge Henry Kantor said he had not seen a case like this one, and ruled that the lawsuit can move forward. The suit will proceed Thursday with a deposition of Terri Horman’s biological son, James Moulton.
Horman initially asked for a two-year delay to let a criminal investigation play out. Investigators have long focused on Horman, although they have not named her as a suspect or filed criminal charges.
Peter Bunch, Horman’s civil lawyer, argued Wednesday that the civil suit cannot move forward while there’s an ongoing criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance. He said interviews were still being conducted in California and elsewhere.
http://archive.is/20130127050929/www.kgw.com/news/Hearing-today-on-Kyron-civil-suit-delay-request-166253236.html
Correct.
B
Rose
I agree with you about Terri’s concerns regarding Kyron. That is why I consider her to be the real mother. I really have no problem with Kaine assigning chores to James. Things need to be done around a home to keep it clean and operating properly. Chores are the things that teach children about work and responsibility. I also do not believe that chores should be rewarded with money. Those are the things that youth contribute to the home.
Skipping school and poor grades is another matter. Those grades are an indication of a problem that should be corrected. Children will meet your expectations if a parent is firm that school is job one.
based on that sound bite TRuth, there was an active grand jury in Aug 2012–the one DDS testified efore I guess.
Why would a civil attorney try to end run that bcz a true bill outcome would assist a future civil case?
re Blink comment at
March 14, 2017 at 12:57 pm
—-
That’s the question, why isn’t this Mother looking for her child?
apart that is from ground searches requiring donations?
—–
You’re saying Mother immediately cohabited with her future
husband on return from No Washington State? A remarkable
choice over staying in Portland accessible to both sons.
Immediately as defined by the first few months she moved back, yes. Kyron was exchanged 1x a month in Seattle, when it was exercised but DY was living in Canada for a short period. It is not my intention to be critical, but this is a fact she would not dispute.
B
“so as far as he is concerned I have no idea why he did not bring suit”
Suits cost upfront money, and PPS had bottomless pockets and a first rate outside counsel firm.
—-
atg. there is overwhelming evidence in the press over time from a number of Portland 1-8 schools between 2010-
present that there was grossly negligent internal (principal) and external (pps admin) mismanagement of both physical plants and processes and of pps personnel and students. The heroes of pps are likely the front line teachers trying to work amist such negligent admin and involved parents. These parents (kyron’s) were as involved improving pps and skyline after the abduction as before it.
Blink, do you have or are you privy to who was subpoenaed to be deposed by Houze in regard to the now defunct Young civil suit?
We know DDS and KH and James were deposed. (Apparently Porter was deposed as well.) I am curious if DY’s first born was deposed or on the list to be deposed. I would think his relationship with his brother and his observation of time spent simultaneously with TMH & his brother would be just as relevant to HouzeofBunches as Jame’s depo. Were the Moulton’s, Terri’s parents, also deposed?
I find it fascinating that both TY & DY were scheduled and then cancelled, twice. It’s not like they would have been deposed together. I find it strange.
Respectfully T.Ruth I am not sure how to answer that so I will defer. I will only state Porter WAS NOT deposed in the Young v Horman matter.
B
I won’t sign into linkedin, but iirc a 31 yo working as an accountant in San Fran was the retired SAC’s son (based on his education location). The Q is whether he moved up to Portland (and if so who recruited him–was it Staton?) Could be it was Staton’s plan to convert Bysiness Services from a Chief Deputy to a civilian and that was his real motive to drive Yankee out. After she left, a retiree came back to cover for awhile. Didn’t Staton claim his own ed was business?
Rose says:
March 14, 2017 at 12:57 pm
-snip
if the suits intention had been structured to develop investigative information to progress Kyron’s case- which I would have supported potentially, she would have named the school.
**************************
I have often wondered why DY didn’t just sue the school and let them point the finger at Terri. I would have thought as DY’s attorney Elden would have suggested she do that. Was Elden really that incompetent or is there some reason neither Kaine or DY have never considered blaming the school or getting any punitive compensation from the school regarding Kyron’s disappearance. It’s not like DY knew any of the school employees and wanted to spare them from litigation. IMO DY could have funded a lot of searches if she won a suit against the school.
No matter who removed Kyron that day it was the schools responsibility to know where Kyron was.
Kaine seems to not have any aversion to collecting money/donations in Kyron’s name (even though I don’t believe the monies he collects are not to being used to find Kyron) Kaine does seem to be interested collecting funds. So why didn’t he sue the school and get even more money for his foundation.
In my view, suing the school was tantamount to an admission Terri was innocent and uninvolved in Kyron’s disappearance. That opened up Kaine to in limine and ultimately child support, house proceeds. Desiree is not interested in suing the school for that reason but also because I am sure Kaine would never agree to that.
B
because Kaine was custodial parent, he woukd’ve had to sign off on Desiree naming PPS as a party?
I do see his motivation not to sue pps was exactly the reason you offer.
However, imo a man of character, despite the cost, woukd’ve
done it to reform pps child supervision and safety school policies and procedures, to hold accountable
those 2 teachers responsible for his child’s abduction and failure to report absence promptly knowing they’d have years of students ahead, to be sure this never happened to another 7 yo boy in PPS. That, not a fence, or a Foundation, woukd’ve been the best memorial to their son. Even if Mathews letting 7 yo K go outside was OK, and it wasn’t, she shoukd’ve required the man to return him to her personally within 5 minutes or so.
it sounds like desiree changed men about as frequently as kaine did women.
@TRuth. James’ utility in depo was to obtain testimony
of conflict between the Hormans and to document his
ouster from the home, for whatever reason, opening up
Terri’s motive to “oust” kyron to hurt kaine.
There was really no one else but Terri’s
presumed coconspirator DDS and terri herself to depose.
I don’t think she’d want Porter involved (at trial)
bcz her cross would exculpate Terri and reveal the role of SZ.
Mathews & others would be defense witnesses, thus Terri woukd
indirectly hold pps accountable and defeat DY’s suit. Without DDS,
DY had nothing.
It is interesting that Porter had two kids in her classroom, one that being observed and the other being Kyron who had a doctor’s appointment where the teacher’s input was sought. I don’t know the stats for elem school classrooms where two students issues a week before school gets out, maybe it’s average but the known common denominator with these two children was the school and makes me wonder what might have been going on in that classroom.
T. Ruth says:
March 14, 2017 at 12:48 pm