Dr. Phil Show Hosts Missing Portland Child Kyron Horman’s Step Mom Terri Horman Over Two Episodes
I have been covering this case since Kyron Horman disappeared from Skyline School in June, 2010. Like most missing persons cases I have covered in the past, I am of the strong opinion that best efforts at the truth are the only way to propel investigations that, similarly to Kyron’s, have gone cold for one reason or another. This approach has worked in resolving some of my previous cases. I am proud of that. I remain steadfast to the integrity involved in those and future cases.
Over the past 10 months (or so) I have been developing an updated series on Kyron’s case to include my multiple interviews with Kyron’s step-mom, Terri Horman. Needless to say as she was the subject of at least three simultaneous cases before an Oregon court and remains a person of interest by the agency investigating her sons disappearance, this has been an arduous and sometimes delicate journey. Ms. Horman’s experiences during the ongoing investigation of the disappearance of Kyron Horman are critically important to propelling his case and with great hope- finding the truth about what happened to this cherubic and innocent child. There are dozens of sources, collateral interviews, forensic experts and legal analysts that also contribute to my series and have done so because of their belief that my motivation is to bring to light information and opinions in such a way that would almost “require” a focused review of Kyron’s case and the likely shaking of that proverbial tree everyone talks about.
Set to publish about 6-ish weeks ago I was asked to postpone the first installment of the series, which I did. I subsequently learned Ms. Horman was participating in the Dr. Phil program after she completed taping. Dr. Phils producers were well aware that Ms. Horman had interviewed with me extensively, and anticipated my series would be publishing information that was not known to the public previously in the days prior to her scheduled episode. When Ms. Horman conveyed to me that she feels obligated to speak out about “her son” in any national medium that will have her, I most certainly respected that. I still do.
While Dr. Phil seems like a gregarious fellow for sure, I have zero interest in being associated with his program, nor do I believe his shows content is designed to do any furtherance of investigation or truth. There is much concern (although I have no affiliation to the show whatsoever) that the timing of the publication of my series on the Kyron Horman matter might be interpreted differently or inadvertently contribute to the programs content or audience reactions. Not what I signed on for. A missing 7 year old boy six years running is not a framework for entertaining a target audience. He is not fodder for online social media bully campaigns- yet it occurs.
I will be publishing my series on Kyron’s case at a later date, in it’s entirety with no editing adjustments as a result of any of the appearances on Dr. Phil. I appreciate your patience and your understanding. Feel free to discuss the show below.
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http://www.yubacourts.org/general-info/judicial-assignments
according to this, Berrier should’ve had the DV RO,
family law backup is O’Connor. Wirtschafter rightly has misdemeanor trials.
Like Kantor catching the divorce/custody merely by being DY’s tort trial judge, this guy git the RO merely bcz the gun charge was first in time. No chance imo he’ll exclude the RO evidence: it’s his baby. He’ll find it probative.
From the online record only I see a motion in limine hearing Monday at 3, and motions scheduled at start of trial on 6/27. Yuba’s Superior court rules are your basic standard small town variety and do not differentiate much from misdy to felony.
Disclaimer- I have not worked on this criminal matter professionally. My sense is that the discovery concerns that took place in the last hearing (not trial readiness) are being addressed now on the record after asking the court to weigh in earlier. The State intended to introduce matters of allegations related to Kyron, and the DV order. To my knowledge, Cristobal has already been excluded as a witness after the Judge heard evidence that he is not credible. My assumption is that the motion in limine covers all potential accusations of prior bad acts and your basic “all things associated with Kyron and Oregon” (like the Oregon FAPA, anything that would be considered inflammatory or irrelevant to the instant matter). Its very common for the court to schedule time for hearing stipulated motions or arguments pre trial and then read in to the record at trial for a variety of reasons. I will say it is incredibly uncommon for a misdemeanor gun theft charge/FTA that was dropped due to lack of prob cause and non-participating complainant to rise to this level of drama and it is not lost on anyone. I include the Yuba Superior Court rules for anyone interested:
http://www.yubacourts.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/Misc/ROC%202017-01-01.pdf
Contrary to posts I have read from people that have no business addressing the issue, lol, the motions don’t have anything to do with suppressing anything- suppression presumes and alleges something was obtained “illegally” in the first place- and would be subject to the potential for Fruit of The Poisonous Tree doctrine (Silverthorne v US). This type of motion deals with exclusion.
B
I suppose State school report cards will be a thing of the past. Sure helped me in another State.
A basic consumer reports as to one variable.
Here is Skyline’s: http://www.ode.state.or.us/data/reportcard/reports.aspx
clickon Portland, then click on Skyline.
Never too hot, Skyline dropped like lead in both Engl and Math in
2015-16. Well below comparable schools. Doubt Terri
would’ve kept her there on ed competence alone.
If basic skills aren’t mastered in K-1, imo there goes the ballgame.
cd says:
June 24, 2017 at 12:11 am
-snip
the DA was alerted… and told DY she would be on her own as to any of her public statements regarding same but made her aware Spicher had been cleared (see Rosenthal press conf). As you know, she has not uttered a syllable about Spicher since.
———–
True that, but DY’s minion soldier still broadcasts that Dede is responsible for Kyron going missing. Since DY reads the WS Facebook and occasionally posts there I am sure she is aware of soldiers efforts to get Dede fired from her job by having the haters call Dedes place of employment and posting on the hospitals Facebook. That would be an example of DY’s persistence in believing only what she wants to believe even if it makes no sense and she has been informed by LE to the contrary.
Agreed.
B
these 7-11s. http://www.kgw.com/mb/news/local/washington/13-people-arrested-in-spokane-child-sex-sting-operation/269801473
2 in this case were suggested to separate meetups by undercover LE.
maybe the 7-11 on Hwy 30 was a meet up but LE never showed as he paced.
so hiree proceeded to the nearest eled school.
maybe hiree was a decoy to be
blamed by abductor and got lucky.
Super Interesting in the 7-11 meet up choice. I had not thought of that.
B
I looked at Spokane in an effort to find again the name of Neil’s Wife 1
and her social circs. (like father like son)
RNH graduated in spokane in 69 and married “Kris” in 81.
12 years water under bridge. and was kelly his or hers?
imo when Terri “flew at” Porter in anger for her answers probably reflecting basic stupidity, that was not merely her present terror for Kyron’s whereabouts. Imo that was a year of built up anger spilling over Porter’s “cards for Kyron”, poor teaching, and anger over what she saw in the classroom when volunteering, & most of all Porter’s using deafness as an excuse. Imo Terri was partially deaf too and I bet thot it no excuse for poor teaching. I bet it had been the year from hell at Skyline for both kyron and Terri.
I certainly do not condone aggressive behavior in any setting, most especially in this case which was an emergency- but I do understand it. To my knowledge, the incident was the 3rd time the school had lost track of Kyron (yes, DY and KH are aware of this) and as the group is standing there, it was also learned Terri did not sign Kyron out from the building, as is required if removing a student during the school day. So you have a Mother learning her kid was missing from at least 10AM, and nobody bothered to even verify their erroneous theory as to why as we are approaching 3:45PM.
One more time here, this is yet another reason in support of an opportunistic abduction. How could anyone predict that Kyron’s own teacher would not check the log to verify his absence (as opposed to running around the school in a diff group, etc) or find it odd that his backpack and jacket were left in the class, OR that Porter would ignore an email from Terri asking about picking up the project that afternoon. These are 3 separate and distinct failures that “but not for” their occurrence it would have been learned within minutes of his disappearance that he was actually missing after exiting the school with an unidentified male.
Guess what my good folks- everything I just mentioned is the necessary protocol to issue an Amber alert.
Here’s the thing- if MCSO and the MCDA were so (and continue to be) fixated as TH being the mastermind of Kyron’s disappearance, than can someone explain to me that the person that literally had 3 separate chances to detect a missing kid on their watch and failed to follow protocol or standard of care was not scrutinized as a possible accomplice? Was Porter ever given a LDT?
1. Marks Kyron absent after seeing him in her classroom without Terri. No alert or inquiry about his location potentially within the school to anyone.
2. Observes his backpack and jacket hanging in class (or does not, negligent)
3. Fails to check with the office to see if he had been signed out by Terri.
No, I have no reason to suspect Porter was involved, but on paper, investigatively, it was her inaction that a person either counted on as a planned strategy or 3 coinky’s. Either scenario excludes Terri apparently, so there’s that.
Bottom line in as succinct a fashion as I can offer- Porter is/was a crucial witness in Kyron’s disappearance and her deposition supported Terri’s account, as well as admitted her own failures that day. Had she “acted” Kyron’s missing status would have resulted in an Amber alert and if the MCSO MCDA theory is TH is involved… AND…. is somehow connected to SZ (as yet unidentified) than how in the Hell can this information be viewed as evidence in this case?
Terri (Moulton) Horman is either the idiot or the savant, they can’t have it both ways.
B
ot help requested. major street beliw ground infrastructure replacement thruout town but commencing adjacent 2 me last week drove rats from sewer seen in my yard fleeing the sewer. now dang it rat seen running across my tiny computer room diving under chair I sit in. husband told not to come home w/o 30 rat glue traps. any other suggestions? Town Mgr blew off block captn & residents 3 yrs ago re rats in alleyways. no help from govt.
One wonders whether kristina ever chatted in her social circle about the mother from hell of a vulnerable 2nd grader whom she felt when the year was over woukd give a negative report on her teaching.
I just read a report of a new technique for facial aging developed at the University of Bradford in the U.K. and published in the Journal of Forensic Science. This new method is reportedly much more accurate than methods currently in use.
The effort was the result of trying to solve some of the missing children cases in the U.K. which stands at over 300,000.
This could be helpful in Kyron’s case if experience matches the claim.
It seems the former PPS Supt put several principals & admins on paid leave for several years. Rewriting history, I wish in 2010 summer PPS had put Porter on paid leave for 2 years with the excuse she was being given time to get a masters. maybe in special ed. Crazy she’s got a K-1 class with the door opening straight outside.
That an exclusionary hearing is needed on all matters Oregon shows imo the DA is unethical, unprofessional, & fights dirty. Unless Terri opens the door when asked why she wanted a gun, it is irrelevant to the charge and wildly inflammatory & prejudicial. and she’s never been named a suspect & there’s no credibke evidence. If alliwed in, Adams needs Rod on the stand testifying as to GJ outcome and to the evidence in the case. Bet Rod loves mcso, whoever the Sheriff.
—
my image of an 80s Reed grad is one of Rules (ie Court Rules) are made to be broken when yr gut tells you to, esp in a righteous cause. (iirc his bro is a Rabbi.) I’ll call it Kantoring a case. Moreover years as a city councilman = drawn to the feel of power in a small town. So gosh knows hiw he’ll rule on excluding irrelevant inflammatory prejudical matters. and he probably likes cameras.
It may be simply a record preservation move- I am getting the sense that this Judge is aware the DA is trying this case for the simple reason that it has google creds potentially. Richards will renew his motion to dismiss on grounds on the trial record. I am pretty sure based on the responses to my inquiry re the 911 calls the prosecution will not be able to reproduce them. I cannot imagine why the State would want to present Cristobal (my guess they will try the “limited purposes of” strategy) because if they do, there are factors I am aware of that if he testifies to, will likely be used to commence a civil action against him and amend or vacate the DV order. And there is the opportunity for the defense to use Cristobal to their advantage, which I have no doubt they are hopeful for that opportunity.
Much of the discussions between OP’s in this case have taken place in chambers- that tells me this Judge is well aware of, and likely in control of, what is to be presented and the expectations of all at trial. I do not expect any “gotcha” moments.
The general consensus is that if the crazies show up in their “inappropriate for court garb” they will not be permitted entry and/or be removed. If that occurs in front of the court- I imagine the defense plans to use that as evidence any reasonable person would be in fear for their safety and want to use means to protect themselves.
Overall, the verdict in the Michelle Carter case has drastically changed the social media/free speech landscape. The online bullying and in some cases very specific threats lobbied at citizens just got a whole lot more actionable.
B
if I had an OR PI like Pitkin and had all the money one could have to pay said PI, I’d go to each of the ’86 attendees in 2016 at their Reed reunion and see if Wirt. let his hair down and discussed the Kyron abduction with anyone at all. It would only take one, most likely, to get him disqualified.
No, but yes, that content speaks for itself. I have no time for it
B
Thx for your summary & synthesis Blink.
Because Porter marked him absent at 10, that
partly shifts onus to Susan Hall to see if a
family member signed him out and if
not to call the home. ” Mother learning
her kid was missing from at least 10AM,
and nobody bothered to even verify their
erroneous theory as to why as we are approaching 3:45PM.”
It was Porter’s spurious story line that led me to think
she had to be ruled out as an accomplice, LDT and all.
Since she saw him in the classroom after the last bell
and without Terri, and his things were there, marking him absent
was outlandish. It is a sad thing she did not ask Principal Keefer to step in and locate him which should’ve reached Mathews & gotten the “went outside with a man” story, triggering an Amber Alert. The Youngs
fixation on Terri from moment one is so bizarre it is also unexplainable if they wanted to find kyron. Youngs would know nothing about Skyline or its policies and procedures and what Terri would need to do to curcumvent what they SHOULD have been action taken on. A stranger abduction at a Fair shoukd have been the first thing they thought of.
nor can mcso employees overlooking the actual abduction be explained by mere ineptitude. Tongue in check: facetiously, did Porter date a deputy in 2010?
—-
Reviewing iirc erose’s nbc Dateline link, I saw Kaine said “with what I know now (implying dark hidden nefarious behaviors), “”she’s capable of anything.” (in response to Q “could she hurt kyron?”) Imo he simultaneously lied by omission to the public about the male abductor and pinned it on Terri.
As much as it pains me to do it- on the initial FAPA business, I believe Kaine BELIEVED LE. Many may disagree, but it cannot be denied that in a few days time he finds out there was a landscaper employed over a year whose existence (in the first place) was kept from him entirely. Add to that he learns it was actually his wife who called the DEA re his steroid purchases and usage. ALSO witheld from him. That’s the stuff we know about and all agree it is interpretible.
Putting the defense of such actions aside (like why would anyone have to lie about a landscaper and call LE in the first place) for a moment, Terri cannot blame anyone but herself for dishonesty and deception. She may feel she is justified and I could respect that- but she must also then realize the consequences of what someone sees as an intense betrayal they did not believe you capable of. I am convinced both the RSE situation and the DEA call put Terri’s integrity and motives into question immediately. That said, very quickly we learn DY and KH BOTH have skeletons they are not offering publicly yet neither get the same level of scrutiny in the least. Hell, Kaine’s suppliers were arrested and he was not- anyone picking up on the incongruity here? Occupational hazard alert- I believe anyone is capable of anything at anytime with no exceptions. Kaine learned of another plane of existence of his wife in the midst of a missing child she was the primary caregiver of. If truthful, both DY and KH would tell you that the “discovery” of RSE turned them cold on Terri’s character and very very unfortunately, I can tell you it is almost impossible to come back from that under these circumstances and ongoing trauma.
To add- no. No, I do not believe Kaine Horman truly believes Terri was involved in Kyron’s disappearance, however, he faces adverse consequences should he ever actually admit that.
B
DA McGrath should be able to make his case on the misdemeanor charged, cut & dried on the case elements.
Only reason to unethically bring in Oregon is to sway a jury at sentencing time to sentence commensurate with a felony. Since he knows evidence that should be excluded would never stand up on appeal, he’s just trying to get publicity for himself imo.
Yes Rose, agree on calls. 1st from Hall to DY, which I agree with you, DY had an unusual reaction. If she wanted to speak with Terri, why not just say to Hall “put Terri on the phone.” Second call is Terri calling DY, I assume after the confrontation with Porter. (And Blink had they lost my kid X3, I would have gone for the throat, not that it would be right.) Terri telling DY that the school lost track of Kyron, AGAIN, and his coat and backpack are still in the classroom and this teacher blew it off so to speak. Then there is the call from DY to TH saying she and TY were on her way. I have never said this but always thought Terri’s surprise at DY coming to Portland may have been that that was unusual for DY to come all the way to Portland for an emergency.
1. Absolutely agree. I am not proud of that, but you can see how Porter’s response exacerbated the situation because it was abundantly clear at that moment that Kyron was indeed, missing since 10AM. It effectively negates a parents ability to think- well maybe he was playing outside and the bus left without him, maybe he got off at a friends stop, and any other permutation one can think of to stave off the coming hysteria. In my mind- my first thought when I heard it was I did the math- 6 hours.
2. Yes, DY was back there 2x since Kyron was in kinder. Once on the first day to drop him off in his class- which she attended with Terri and another for a soccer tournament/awards day and dinner you saw pics of at the pizza place, and again at the hotel where her, Quinn and Kyron stayed overnight. I can only say that statement was based on the conversation before it was learned Kyron had been missing since 10am. So it was before the exchange with Porter.
B
B
hiring a yardman crew on yr own money to do 5 acres of hard labor he’d assigned her hardly rises to “intense betrayal” tho. Granted on the steroids, she shoukd’ve talked to him first, byt I thit she said she’d done sk to no result. Hardly rises to the “intense ongoing betrayals” of his affairs. As I lay bags of mulch in old age for my cheapskate, I look at my neighbors’ yardmen enviously. And his greatest betrayal was of kiara–ripping her mother from her.
Im pretty sure I said, “putting aside the defense as to “why” for a minute, lol… I was referring to Kaine’s frame of reference as it related to information he learned of Terri’s lies and deception to him. Investigatively I can tell you from experience the second I find out someone has been caught lying , cheating, overall deceptive behavior you better believe it elevates the individual for scrutiny. In this scenario, with a missing child in that persons care, who was exposed at some point to the person (RSE) as part of the ruse, I am going to be open to the possibility there is a great deal more I don’t know. Truly, I don’t think Terri likes that characterization from me, but I also don’t think she would disagree with it as a reason for her to be looked at heavily- what I also think she believes is that considering the fact that she was one of 3 parents of Kyron’s that “had skeletons” that all 3 of them should have faced the same level of investigation. That did not happen. I completely agree with her position on that.
And, respectfully submitted, Terri admitted to being the subject of RSE romantic intentions and had lunch with him at some point, and I believe exchanged some inappropriate sexts with him that Kaine was shown, or told existed, all withheld from them during the marriage once again. ffwd to the Mike Cook fiasco. I believe 100% Kaine was behind that, but you can’t deny her actions at a critical time and she doesn’t either.
Please don’t confuse what i am pointing out as investigative “prompts” that allowed the myth to take hold with Kaine- he was sure he was fighting to keep his shit, to keep his affair out of the work fray and stay out of jail for illegal roid sale/use at a minimum. I have never intended to suggest that there is any equity between betrayals here, but LE used hers to get Kaine to do their bidding and I think initially he believed them. Consider this if you will- it is also easier for the parent of a missing child to want to believe their spouse was involved if they truly believe they would never hurt their child.
I tend and lay my own mulch (with man help) and have done so in a boot (but not this year), pull my own weeds and my roses and hydrangea hedges are my pride and joy, but if my spouse mandated I was responsible for 3 kids, one of which was a toddler and all areas of home and family management that goes with that I would tell him he could afford a landscaper or a divorce, whichever was cheaper. Kaine is the epitome of a man child and misogynist.
B
Thank you Blink. So I think you are saying DY and TY left for Portland before TH spoke with Porter. Those calls, which I can understand, must have happened in rapid succession. That does explain why TH wondered why DY was on her way. She (TH) still thought there was a chance Kyron was going to be found. A person would think that if the last 2X he had been returned unharmed. 2X does beg the question of where he was and how he was “lost.” This is the kind of stuff that would have turned public sentiment against the school, IMO.
I am not sure during the enormity of the situation, learning the time he was marked absent was 6 hours earlier, the other 2 incidents came into frame if you will. They were probably (in context) viewed as minor and more than likely de-escalated the situation to the ole- “we had him before and it all worked out fine, no worries.” I think the fact that 6 hours had passed when he was the only one missing made this something else entirely as soon as they learned it. I don’t understand the mentality of Kaine and Desiree in this respect. Not at all.
B
o/t Rose, Use peanut butter to attract your “guest.”
Me thinks I missed a post, at least I think I hope I did, LOL.
B
@Blink
Do you believe that KH *still* believes TMH tried to have him killed?
If he no longer believes that, and that was the basis of his belief that she also had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance, then why isn’t he out looking for SZ, instead of telling TMH the FBI and MCSO are waiting to hear from her?
I have never asked him, but No, I do not believe a reasonable person would believe RSE was solicited to kill him by Terri and I do not believe Kaine does either.
I have heard Kaine say SZ is the priority, not that I have seen him take any steps towards that. I don’t believe you have heard any comments from Kaine directly about Terri in a long time. What you are referring to I believe was someone who used to have access to that FB account.
B
Rose says:
June 24, 2017 at 6:45 pm
Blink says:
(snipped)
1. Marks Kyron absent after seeing him in her classroom without Terri. No alert or inquiry about his location potentially within the school to anyone.
*************************
This is news to me. Porter saw Kyron in her classroom without TMH?
I don’t recall ever hearing this before anywhere. Was this AFTER TMH left the school, i.e., after the first bell?
Correct. The first bell rang when Terri and Kyron (and Kitty) were in a different classroom, they headed toward Porters and as Terri has stated was the last time she saw Kyron, but yes, Porter maintains she saw Kyron in the classroom after Terri left, I presume he went down the back steps to the electric display from there.
B
Though it may not be significant at all here, do we know who the individual was who got between Porter and TMH?
Yes.
B
I’m getting confused about the Yuba County grand theft case.
What does Cristobal (and his DVRO) have to do with the earlier charge of TMH stealing a firearm from someone she lived with previously?
I don’t think it does, I know he attempted to get the info on the Yuba case for the DV. Outside of that, I am as lost as you, lol.
B
Rose says:
June 24, 2017 at 6:45 pm
Blink says:
(snipped)
To my knowledge, the incident was the 3rd time the school had lost track of Kyron (yes, DY and KH are aware of this) and as the group is standing there, it was also learned Terri did not sign Kyron out from the building, as is required if removing a student during the school day.
*******************
The school lost track of Kyron twice before? I didn’t know that either.
Was this all within the 2009-2010 school year or prior years as well?
And since Kyron obviously showed up or was found the first two times, who found him (or did they not bother to look back then either, and he just reappeared) and where the heck was he?
One was the fooling around in a hall bathroom with a friend and the other was an extracurricular class the instructor never showed up for so Susan Hall had to call all the parents after the kids were alone in the library for over 2 hours.
So, it wasn’t just Kyron.
B
I still can not believe that Desirre was able to drive to Portland. I would have been out of my mind. Hate is a strong motivator and Desirre allowed it to comfort her in the loss of Kyron. She hated Terri but deep down she can not see Terri hurting Kyron as much as a stranger would. Kaine is an engineer. He must have realized Kyron was gone forever early on. When he sees deception from Terri he is done with her. All he has is little K. He is going to be sure he does not loose her. LE is in CYA and a lot of dollars spent with no results other than a displaced wife, a woman that uses men to define her and at a later age has less choices and thus finds legal troubles from her choices. It will more than likely be by accident we every know what happen to Kyron if we ever do. Someone took Kyron, they did not commit this in a vacuum, they have done similar and will continue.
Agree in total. But I hope we are wrong. I believe Kyron deserves to be found and when he is it will lead directly to his offender. Or his offender will act again and be caught.
B
Rat Help
Are you certain that what you saw was actually a rat. I could be a mouse. Rats are three to four times larger than mice.
Get three or four large rat traps of the spring type and bait them with a small amount of cheese. Rat traps are larger than traps for mice, but they work the same. A large spring type rat trap will not always catch a mouse. The smaller traps for mice always work for them and sometimes will catch a rat.
Glue traps have never worked for me.
Oh my Jesus Rose please tell me there is something here you can use, I just read back. I am afraid I have nothing to offer- I know nothing about that whatsoever.
B
ot thank you ATG. Norweigian. dark brown hair with black. boy was I despatate last night. Local hardware is sold out of bait for locking outdoor traps, in Wed. I found 2 new burrows and the hardware sold me gas bombs, after he said to stand spade at ready to bash their heads in. All neighbors afflicted too due to total infrastructure replacement. Mayor showed up this am, expressed sympathy, but follows County regs which say govt does nothing. So 2 neighbors are drafting a petition to present to Town Council. Hundreds of thousands to lobby County for 2 political liberal pet projects, imo they can lobby to change County rat regs. I’d get those wooden traps but husband worries about birds.
Let me know when it is ok to respond with something glib, like- fashion a web that says salutations.
But seriously- I am so mortified for you- don’t post it here, (obvs) but check your code enforcement/animal control regs anyway- it may differentiate for an “infestation”.
B
are you able to say which extracurricular class, as well as if it was a one off (some demo or specialty like the solar talk) or a regular class? After or during school? (sounds after) 2 hrs is a LONG time to leave young kids in school library w/o a teacher other than librarian. What extracurricular meets in a library anyway?
I can say it was after school, some sort of explorers-type class and I believe they were completely unattended until it was discovered the instructor never showed. Yes, 2 hours for a bunch of 6 year olds- sigh.
B
” Terri admitted to being the subject of RSE romantic intentions and had lunch with him at some point, and I believe exchanged some inappropriate sexts with him that Kaine was shown, or told existed”
Good Lord. Chickens came home to roost. Hasn’t she figured out some spurned men get even?
I can’t say. One would think, by now. I think the bigger issue is the large lesson about deceipt and not being truthful, no matter what. Not judging here, but I am positive that Terri believes/believed she has had her reasons in the past, and that in itself may be true, but those are conscious choices. One of the consequences of that was LE’s ability to use it against her and in my view it cost her everything.
It is misconduct, it is persecution, it is gross negligence- it is morally and ethically reprehensible- once someone actually does something about it. Until then, it is just a very thick smoke screen serving to obfuscate finding a missing little boy.
B
So they had Porter in a depo verify Kyron was in her class after Bell 2 after Terri left. Well then the duty of care was easily proven to be the school’s. What a shame Desiree or Kaine didn’t file a tort suit against pps in July 2010 and get those personnel depos rolling in the fall. What a joke Young was busy deposing the uninvolved like James and DeDe instead of getting Porter’s & Mathew’s depo 7 years ago.
I would describe Porter’s deposition as dispositive of negligence as to duty of care, yes, but to your point, there was plenty of that to go around that day. I would also characterize her deposition as corroboration of Terri’s accounts re observations of Kyron and the pending Dr. appointment for the following Friday (6/11).
What I find super interesting about that is what I mentioned yesterday. If one is convinced TH was involved- how does one (investigatively) account for the 3 separate and distinct opportunities for Porter to intervene (applying standard of care) that had to occur for Kyron’s disappearance to go undetected and not subject to an amber alert? On Kyron’s behalf, one must consider the motivations of that individual, but not stop there because it brings us to the “but not for” standard. But not for Porter’s actions (of inaction) how do we even know Kyron makes it off the premises? Don’t we all agree that simply must occur for a “planned abduction” to go undetected?
Moving on- how does one account for the “permissive” exchange through Matthews?
Since we know through multiple witness accounts Kyron leaves that classroom at the request of SZ to help him get something from his truck, and I have already published a time stamped image from that classroom just prior to his arrival, and I am unaware of any reported sightings of Kyron following this, however, I am aware of a witness who stated the last time he saw him he was headed to that “cool electric display”.
Had anyone bothered to verify- this timeline is verifiable. There is a very long list of witnesses and testimony who place Kyron Horman at the school following Terri’s departure and there is simply no dispute to that fact. Both Kyron’s parents are aware of this.
If my singular focus was to find my child, armed with this information, I have to exclude the possibility that any of those in contact with him at the school were involved. How was that accomplished? Their very sworn testimony excludes BOTH Terri Horman and Spicher through their verified timeline as both were accounted for between 9:05 and 10:00 AM.
Long but very reasoned way around to one conclusion- Skyline School was ground zero for the prevention of Kyron’s disappearance and subsequently detection of it (failure of) and there is no excuse for any parent of a child who went missing from it to give them a voluntary pass.
The answers are there, always have been. One has to look, though.
B
Briliant analysis Blink, but why the parents don’t look, and as to Desiree misdirect, is inexplicable. In a nutshell Desiree wod say “the man” was another seduced mfh handyman of Terri’s who handed him off to her promptly. She has an elaborate construction in her head to explain her & kyron’s reality. Now we know Staton’s command was collapsing around him from the year he took office. His supervisees were resistant to his promotion, and he eventually became paranoid and delusional. This explains his going along with the investigation from hell. He had no control reay of those “detectives” and had to account for mcso budget. those “detectives” and their supervisors are still all in place in the “detective” chain of command or promoted: Gates, Walls, Krafve, the latter’s long term coinvestigator (was it Kubic?) Only the bottom guy ODonnell was disposed of. how can the bios look at mcso with a straight face and solicit $ for Kyron.
Do we even know whether or not Porter was given a LDT?
Was not. I would add that school employees had legal representation before Terri Horman.
B
@Rose
O/T
We live on acreage with an old barn, that is home to none other than a barn owl. They feed on vermin such as mice and rats. Usually, this family, plus a few local wild cats help keep the populations under control. This year we have rats entering our chicken coop and eating the eggs. (Our chicken wire rat-proofing has finally rusted away and/or the damn rats are eating right through it. Husband bought a five gallon bucket with a tight fitting lid, the kind you have to use a tool to pry off. Using a hole saw or whatever you have, cut a hole in the bucket down near the bottom large enough for a rat to get through, but not cats, or other small animals. Place your poison in the bucket, put the lid on tight again (with a hammer or whatever) and you have a rat trap that your doggy or cat can’t get to, but your unwanted pests can. They’ll eat the poison then exit, and usually die in search of a water source somewhere. I suppose you could put a baited rat trap in the bucket as well, but I’m thinking putting the lid back on, might set it off. Another scurge we have, is ground squirrels, in fact my husband just went out this morning and set a “have a heart” trap for them (peanut butter bait). Of course we have no heart, he shoots them once they’re trapped. These critters will dig up a home’s foundation, they are a huge nuisance here. (Where’s the squirrel-shooting PPB when we need them? LOL)
Can I just say y’all are brilliant people about everything, for real?
B
@Blink says
(snipped)
Here’s the thing- if MCSO and the MCDA were so (and continue to be) fixated as TH being the mastermind of Kyron’s disappearance, than can someone explain to me that the person that literally had 3 separate chances to detect a missing kid on their watch and failed to follow protocol or standard of care was not scrutinized as a possible accomplice? Was Porter ever given a LDT?
1. Marks Kyron absent after seeing him in her classroom without Terri. No alert or inquiry about his location potentially within the school to anyone.
2. Observes his backpack and jacket hanging in class (or does not, negligent)
3. Fails to check with the office to see if he had been signed out by Terri.
*********
Adding to that list, if little TP’s account was accurate,
4. Asked by the chaperone, where IS Kyron and her response is in the bathroom or getting a drink. Suddenly then decides, doctor appointment?
Then Matthews alleged “nod” to a stranger. Doors allegedly left open/and or purposely propped open, that were ordinarily locked. No mandatory sign in or badges issued.
Good grief, I gotta wonder why the LE people in charge of this investigation (any and all of them, to include the FBI), would not be looking at BOTH sets of parents, and scratching their LE heads, as to the very odd behavior of neither one of them bothering to sue the school!
What I still don’t get, how is LE going around saying TMH was the last person to see Kyron, if in fact Porter admits to seeing him after TMH left, and Matthews nodded after TMH left the premises.
Wouldn’t this mean, there was/is some *other* witness saying they saw TMH at the school later that morning? If there is, then was/is it simply a case of mistaken identity? Or is someone purposely leading this case down the squirrel path? (I recall seeing the back of the head of some redhead in a photo at the school assembly, who looked like it could be TMH, but it was not, and IIRC that was after Kyron went missing, last day of school celebration or something like that.)
This type of motion deals with exclusion.
B
***********
Or could be “inclusion”, depending, right?
Not sure I understand your question T.Ruth.
B
” how does one (investigatively) account for the 3 separate and distinct opportunities for Porter to intervene (applying standard of care) that had to occur for Kyron’s disappearance to go undetected and not subject to an amber alert? ” imo that could only be accounted for if a bio was involved bcz both bios said Terri vented to them about Porter’s negligence as a teacher many times.
I am aghast at the information that a class of students at Skyline were 2 hours in a room by themselves with zero supervision by teacher or administrator.
If I were a parent in that district and learned that information, there would be no stone left unturned in trying to get these people removed from their job. These people are actually dangerous in the way they manage a school or a classroom.
Personal behaviors by parents are important. Those that do not think about consequences, are subject to events that are not good. The children pay a price as well as the parent(s).
Agreed.
B
There are at least three groups that need a major investigation in this case regarding Kyron.
1. Portland School District
2. Multnomah County Sheriff Department
3. Multnomah County District Attorney’s Office
This should be done by the State Attorney Generals office with outside specialists brought in where evidence points to the need. The entire county government of Multnomah county is a cesspool of incompetence and corruption. It didn’t get that way overnight and it will take a lot of effort and time to make the proper corrections.
wishing kyron’s second mother well Tuesday.
A Texas Grandfather says:
June 26, 2017 at 4:04 pm
Agreed. But the State AG? Ellen arose from the Portland cesspool, to include media & developers and myriad financial , and drug purveyor, interests, and therefore she is the least likely to stick her neck out with a real investigation. imo, twould have to use that good ol ethical ploy–recuse herself and appoint a special prosecutor for whom the State Police would detail personnel.
@ A Texas Grandfather says:
June 26, 2017 at 3:47 pm
that is apparently what kim sordyl and
her associates to include some new
board members are up to. imo they
are disorganized and crude but rightly assess the
problems for children. kinda
interesting keefer’s skyline janitor brother
has been oft on her site.
ot http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/364316-245230-pps-board-member-paul-anthony-seeks-to-block-new-records-release
he was in line to be Board chair & make Supt search transparent.
Principals placed on paid leave for cause for years were going to
come to the end of it.
@Blink
http://www.jha.com/us/blog/?blogID=2160
It is well-established that motions in limine may be used to secure a pretrial ruling that certain evidence is admissible. *** “Revised Rule [of Evidence] 103 permits definitive motions in limine whether they are seeking a ruling either ‘admitting or excluding’ the evidence. This validates the use of the ‘permissive’ motion in limine; that is, one that seeks permission to admit evidence rather than to exclude it.” Wright & Graham, 21 Fed. Prac. & Proc. Evid. § 5037.15 (2d ed. 2005). Other treatises concur. See 1 McCormick on Evidence § 52, at 255 (6th ed. 2006) (“The proponent of evidence can file an in limine motion to obtain an advance ruling that an item of evidence is admissible.”); Weissenberger’s Federal Evidence § 103.4, at 45 & n.42 (7th ed. 2011) (“Such motions may be made by either the party seeking admission or the party seeking exclusion, and are usually (although not always) made before trial.”).
A number of courts have arrived at the same conclusion. See United States v. Williams, 939 F.2d 721, 723-24 (9th Cir. 1991) (affirming district court’s grant of motion in limine to admit evidence) (collecting cases); United States v. Hawpetoss, 478 F.3d 820 (7th Cir. 2007) (same); Walden v. Georgia-Pac. Corp., 126 F.3d 506, 517 (3d Cir. 1997) (“When a definitive evidentiary ruling is made pretrial, there is surely no point to taking the time at trial to make an objection if the in limine ruling admitted certain evidence, or to make an offer of proof if the in limine ruling excluded it.”); Ellerton v. Ellerton, 745 F. Supp. 2d 458, 460 (D. Vt. 2010) (“A motion in limine generally seeks a pre-trial ruling regarding the inclusion or exclusion of evidence based upon its admissibility.”); United States v. Taylor, 328 F. Supp. 2d 915, 918 (N.D. Ind. 2004) (“Thomas uses a Motion in Limine in an effort to seek a ruling on, not the exclusion of evidence, but rather the inclusion of Williams’ proffer statements.”); see also United States v. Jerra, No. 06-50081, 2007 WL 580099, *2 (9th Cir. Feb. 16, 2007) (affirming denial of motion in limine to admit evidence on merits, not because motions in limine cannot be used to admit evidence); United States v. Henderson, 409 F.3d 1293, 1303 (11th Cir. 2005) (same); United States v. Masquelier, 210 F.3d 756, 757 (7th Cir. 2000) (same).
**********
I guess my question was: Do we even know which party filed the Motion in Limine? Because it appears such motion can be filed in order to make sure certain evidence is admitted, as well as excluded.
I do. The defense. I can discuss further post trial but for now allow me to remind everyone that months ago I said it would likely be in TH’s best interests to waive her right to trial in favor of a bench trial. I still feel that way, but in CA its statutes actually provides the State (DA) with the right to a jury trial unless they agree to a bench trial as the defendant requests in a misdemeanor.
B
T. Ruth says:
August 18, 2013 at 3:58 pm
I kinda’ stumbled across this RSO yesterday. He was living here when Kyron disappeared:
HALL, ANDREW CHARLES 10/31/1984 View Bulletin (More Info…)
123 W BURNSIDE ST #317 * PREDATOR *
PORTLAND, OR 97209
If I’m reading things right, I think he is in Idaho now as of December 2012. Was busted for multiple parole violations/rape after his first offense in 2003. (What does it take to keep these guys in jail?) It does not specify his *preferences* and I can’t seem to find anything on his original arrest.
Anyway, he has a very youthful appearance for his age. Just thinking about a possible mistaken identity for a former student.
http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Idaho/Ada-County-ID/Andrew-Charles-Hall.37823214.html
http://www.justmugshots.com/oregon/portland/1019296
http://www.bustedoffenders.com/idaho/eagle/sex-offenders/andrew-charles-hall/sx25522
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/08/06/kyron-horman-exclusive-report-new-suspect-and-botched-investigation-rumors-abound-terri-horman-prepares-to-fight-for-couples-daughter-following-seclusion/comment-page-12/#comments
^^^^
I was just reading back on some of things we were discussing in 2013. I was trying to remember what B said about Matthews and some former student she couldn’t ID, who is not on the TF list. I came across my old post above, and now I see this dude is living back in Portland again. (And is listed as a level 3 offender; highly likely to re-offend)
http://sexoffenders.oregon.gov/SorPublic/Web.dll/main
If you click on the just mugshots link, you can see how young he looked, and still does for his age.
Reading back, I think I’m going to start leaning on the theory of more than one perp involved. (At least for a while.) What if the *former student* was working in cahoots with SZ? What if the alleged former student went into the school and did the observing and asked for some help from Kyron? Would EM be more likely to give the okay?
Anywho, why do these creeps keep coming back to Portland?
T.Ruth
I have never used the bucket trap, but it sounds like it would work very well. People who live in the country learn about things that are not found in a town or city.
We have black and brown ground squirrels as well as the red/gray tree squirrels. The real damage comes if you have armadillos. They are as bad as feral hogs (we have those too) about being destructive to a yard or a foundation.
An outside cat is helpful in keeping the rats and mice under control. Mine does a good job and will even bring me a present of her catch from time to time.
I thought about the lack of having a real working State Attorney General when I posted the areas of cleanup for Multmomah County. It things get bad enough, maybe the Governor could step in and force some needed corrections. That is provided the Governor is really capable.
The people hold the power to clean things up if they will just organize their efforts and make it happen.
I wondered why TH did it hiw a bench trial.
So I gather a grandstander DA, intent on playing
on emotions, can insist on a jury in CA.
Yes ma’am. In contrast, same DA refusing to file criminal negligence in a case where a 9 year old locked in a trailer with 3 pit bulls, 2 of which got out and mauled him to death. True Story. Should be interesting when this is over to file all those public info requests on the costs of this misdemeanor case.
B
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of Adams recouping the cost of defense for Terri thru:
“Malicious prosecution is a common law intentional tort, while like the tort of abuse of process, its elements include (1) intentionally (and maliciously) instituting and pursuing (or causing to be instituted or pursued) a legal action (civil or criminal) that is (2) brought without probable cause and (3) dismissed in …”
Since a dismissal for lack of probable cause is on the record, wronged party would testify did not want charges filed, &
govt lost the 911 call.
Outside of learning about some provable misconduct or malice- I don’t think there is cause to substantiate an allegation of abuse of process or malicious prosecution in this particular criminal matter. I think the usage of it (meaning usage by the prosecution) for some sort of agenda is complete BS, but I think at the end of the day TMH and the complainant had an unresolved issue of a firearm subject to statute.
B
the benefit of the tort action woukd be documenting
McGrath under oath in depo re all his contacts with
mcso personnel and others.
Prosecutors enjoy a very wide berth of immunity and privilege.
B