Dr. Phil Show Hosts Missing Portland Child Kyron Horman’s Step Mom Terri Horman Over Two Episodes
I have been covering this case since Kyron Horman disappeared from Skyline School in June, 2010. Like most missing persons cases I have covered in the past, I am of the strong opinion that best efforts at the truth are the only way to propel investigations that, similarly to Kyron’s, have gone cold for one reason or another. This approach has worked in resolving some of my previous cases. I am proud of that. I remain steadfast to the integrity involved in those and future cases.
Over the past 10 months (or so) I have been developing an updated series on Kyron’s case to include my multiple interviews with Kyron’s step-mom, Terri Horman. Needless to say as she was the subject of at least three simultaneous cases before an Oregon court and remains a person of interest by the agency investigating her sons disappearance, this has been an arduous and sometimes delicate journey. Ms. Horman’s experiences during the ongoing investigation of the disappearance of Kyron Horman are critically important to propelling his case and with great hope- finding the truth about what happened to this cherubic and innocent child. There are dozens of sources, collateral interviews, forensic experts and legal analysts that also contribute to my series and have done so because of their belief that my motivation is to bring to light information and opinions in such a way that would almost “require” a focused review of Kyron’s case and the likely shaking of that proverbial tree everyone talks about.
Set to publish about 6-ish weeks ago I was asked to postpone the first installment of the series, which I did. I subsequently learned Ms. Horman was participating in the Dr. Phil program after she completed taping. Dr. Phils producers were well aware that Ms. Horman had interviewed with me extensively, and anticipated my series would be publishing information that was not known to the public previously in the days prior to her scheduled episode. When Ms. Horman conveyed to me that she feels obligated to speak out about “her son” in any national medium that will have her, I most certainly respected that. I still do.
While Dr. Phil seems like a gregarious fellow for sure, I have zero interest in being associated with his program, nor do I believe his shows content is designed to do any furtherance of investigation or truth. There is much concern (although I have no affiliation to the show whatsoever) that the timing of the publication of my series on the Kyron Horman matter might be interpreted differently or inadvertently contribute to the programs content or audience reactions. Not what I signed on for. A missing 7 year old boy six years running is not a framework for entertaining a target audience. He is not fodder for online social media bully campaigns- yet it occurs.
I will be publishing my series on Kyron’s case at a later date, in it’s entirety with no editing adjustments as a result of any of the appearances on Dr. Phil. I appreciate your patience and your understanding. Feel free to discuss the show below.
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@Tiny. “yielded a number of items” “none related to case”.
http://www.kgw.com/mb/news/local/kyron-horman/west-hills-search-on-sunday-connected-to-kyron-horman-investigation/455102704
imo meaning the Explorers were used to pick up litter on TWVA land.
Yup. Happens often, it is part of the training process.
B
Blink, I do not how close you are to Bucks County but the going on there with 4 boys missing is very disturbing. Any thoughts?
I actually live in Bucks, Ode. I have the potential of conflict of interest all over the place professionally on this one so I can only comment on this “generally”. It is not a nothingburger. These boys are dead. Strong suspicion an as yet unidentified male found shot, tortured and burned over the weekend is related as well. Parents retained Fred Perri, Jr this afternoon. (McMonagle law partner- recently represented Bill Cosby). Dinardo property heavily excavated over 2 days under gravel that has been there for years so that particular site location is questionable as to locating remains of the 4 boys, but the rumor mill is that some sort of remains were located at the farm. Should know in about 10 minutes.
I have not personally seen a case where a bond was set for cash at 5 million before, and Weintraub is pretty risk averse career wise.
B
The linked article speaks of difficult terrain for the searchers. I find that to be laughable. This is easy terrain with only one or two places that may take some caution to walk safely. This is more fiction from reporters inserted to build the story beyond the mundane.
not RoseRed but my memory of the Stoller MS teacher was he was convicted of child porn on his computer, had a then 12 yo son, was acquited of groping little girls at a community pool, and resembles a man running a schoollike carnival game in pic with kyron. do you know more first-time?
Not first-time but I can tell you that pic was of Logan Storm at the carnival.
B
@Tiny. wrt “SZ would be never be convicted if indeed they ever figured out who he is, because the jury would want TH. MCSO did their job well.” That’s a great argument for SZ being an employee of an LE Dept (say even Clackamus), Mult Cty, or PPS. SZ could even at that time have been an employee of PPB, and Reese would imo shout No at workup on alibi.
@rose
I think you nailed it: Further poisoning the jury pool. Search tied to Kyron makes sense now, in that respect, of course it does.
MCSO just conducting business as usual. Reese is a fool, should have passed this case on immediately as the result of a Staton fail. Oh well.
Rose says:
July 12, 2017 at 12:00 pm
not RoseRed but my memory of the Stoller MS teacher was he was convicted of child porn on his computer, had a then 12 yo son, was acquited of groping little girls at a community pool, and resembles a man running a schoollike carnival game in pic with kyron. do you know more first-time?
Not first-time but I can tell you that pic was of Logan Storm at the carnival.
——-
Hi Rose. Yes, I recall all that, but I thought Rose Red might have heard more of Storm, based on their question of a few days ago…
Round and round we go….
imo Reese wants to ride to his next election on a charge, if not a
conviction. .
@TRuth. That is the conclusion Hales came to.
However Hales lacked a replacement plan.
You know, Marshman woukd still be an Exec Asst but for the
ODea shooting & top command coverup. He’s an
accidental Chief too.
Kyron Horman search near Skyline yields no pertinent information, official says
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/07/west_hills_search_in_kyron_hor.html
First time I have seen DY’s theory stated like this in the media. This information, coupled with her gut feeling and I think her mind was made up, never to be changed. Anything else learned, SZ, school’s negligence just detracts from what she believes happened. Maybe these witnesses cannot be convinced otherwise either.
snip>
Horman’s mother, Desiree Young, blamed the step mother for her son’s disappearance. She said several adults and children told her Terri came with the boy to the school, but then walked away with the boy again. Terri Horman was never formally charged in the case.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2267293-authorities-search-again-for-kyron-horman-boy-missing-since-2010/
KH was told his wife was trying to have him killed and his theory was formed.
snip>
Terri Horman’s landscaper said she offered him money to kill her husband (and Kyron’s father) Kaine Horman about six months before Kyron’s disappearance. No charges were ever brought in the case, but the couple divorced and Kaine Horman obtained a restraining order against his wife.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2267293-authorities-search-again-for-kyron-horman-boy-missing-since-2010/
Both parents were no doubt traumatized at the time, no doubt looking for someone to blame (after all he was in her care), and formed opinions early on that they are unable to reevaluate. (Maybe KH has, a little bit.) I think I get it, unfortunately.
Yes. I have seen the perceived guilt of parents of missing children and “adult” children take on a life of it’s own- almost like creating its own reality. I likely fail at artfully explaining the concept to its full “strength”.
B
I thought that might be the case with you professionally but I had to ask. Good luck if in fact you have to bite into that “nothingburger”.
Thank you kindly friend.
If I may circle this ’round a bit to Kyron- I realize I will probably not be able to cover the DiNardo case so I apologize to anyone reading that is unfamiliar, but one point I want to make is that if we contrast the leadership of the District Attorney’s in the respective cases, what is the same and what is different?
B
erose
Little Kyron was not in the care of his stepmother at the time of his disappearance. He was under the care and supervision of the school. As soon as any child sets foot on the property of a school when it is in session, they become responsible for his or her safety. This also extends to any conveyance owned by the school or contracted by the school used to move students to or from the school.
In this case, the school has been able to deflect that responsibility with the help of MCSO and PPB along with poor behavior of the District attorney. Within thirty days, the bio parents should have filed a suit against the school and then followed with one against MCSO. Why didn’t they?
@Blink
You seem to be privy to at least portions of Porter’s deposition taken during the divorce hearings? Are you also privy to Matthews? We know Porter’s *excuse for the excuse*, what is EM’s?
I’m just curious as to why no other outlet thinks any of this is news. After years of them all reporting all the “intentional confusion” allegedly imposed by TMH, and it turns out that the confusion lied within Porter herself, how is this not news? All that BS back then about “it’s unclear when Kyron was marked absent”, blah blah blah, how in the world are all the other media outlets not interested in these depositions? PPS is currently under more scrutiny every time we turn around, why on earth are all reporters steering clear of the debacle that took place at Skyline Elementary that morning that allowed a child to be abducted without a trace.
This is insane.
***********
(Snipped)
erose says:
July 8, 2017 at 3:22 am
Blink says:
I am confident it did not come from someone at the PED. I have not interviewed Porter nor do I know who she may have mentioned it to between the hours of June 3 and the morning of June 4th but I know she was never given a poly and well, he did go missing on her watch. Fact. For years everyone was led to believe that Porter was told about the Dr. appt on June 11 in an an attempt to purposefully “excuse” Kyron. Here’s the rub, Porter never once says she was ever told anything other than Kyron’s appt was on June 11 and she was going to commit her observations to writing in prep for that appointment- she openly admitted that the fact that she thought Kyron was with Kitty at HER appointment (which she did not have) was entirely her misunderstanding, period. Misunderstanding as a term here is a gift, imo. Negligence is negligence and fwiw she gave testimony that she formed that opinion erroneously on her own.
Was Porter ever asked in any deposition, exactly when, at what point during the day, she apparently marked Kyron as absent?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/day_three_search_continues_hun.html
“At some point after that, the boy’s teacher, Kristina Porter, marked Kyron absent.”
****************
Also, in retrospect, why was this information withheld?
*Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point.*
https://projectjason.org/forums/topic/2210-missing-boy-kyron-horman-or-642010/
Why give Porter’s name but not the other teacher’s? And why give the time Porter allegedly saw Kyron, but not when the other teacher did? Did LE not think that making this type of information public just might have generated a lead or two? WTH?
*************
I’ve always thought this was a massive PPS cover-up, but now I think this was a cover-up to exceed all cover-ups. Someone, somewhere please break the crux of this story. If not Blink, then who?????
This cover-up by PPS and the powers that lie behind it, are what led LE down the fruitless squirrel hole. If the true chain of events that played out that morning at that school had been published accurately, I think LE would have been moving in an entirely different direction. I’m positive there would have been more leads generated. I’m not sure who was playing who here, but someone was definitely being duped. And for God’s sake, why didn’t the parents sue the school? Grrrrr!
I have never seen a missing person case where that person’s timeline, or at least most of it up until the time they went missing, was given. For instance, I’m thinking about all the recent cases where video is even publicly released up to the point of that person’s disappearance. And in many, if not most cases, this video has led to finding that person or at least furthering the case. Why, is Kyron’s case being treated so differently? Not one person coming publicly forward to claim where and when he/she saw Kyron. Not one photo of him from that morning publicly released other than Terri’s lone tree frog photo.
Does LE not think these kinds of photos might just actually spur new leads? Something like, a witness saying “Oh Snap!, now I remember seeing him with that guy.” Or I remember seeing “that guy” acting a little strange. Or I wonder what time that was, because I saw Kyron there at such and such time and he was with xxxxxx.
What in the hell are the MCSO detectives waiting for? Another seven years to go by, so they’re all on PERS? How can his parents, any of them, be happy with this lack of progress. I can’t believe LE doesn’t really want to find Kyron, I just can’t. But I can’t explain their unwillingness to do the things that could actually unlock this case.
Blink, I think you have explained the concept very well and over and over, I think I’m just getting around to understanding that their minds are set in that reality you speak of. When those parents and children said that they saw TH leave with Kyron, I am sure none said she drove off with him, but the perception of her going back to the truck to retrieve something forgotten allowed a jump in conclusions.
snip>
Yes. I have seen the perceived guilt of parents of missing children and “adult” children take on a life of it’s own- almost like creating its own reality. I likely fail at artfully explaining the concept to its full “strength”.
B
ATG, I couldn’t agree with you more. I think the bios perspective is that TH caused all of this and they are embarrassed of KH’s affiliation with a woman who would try and kill her husband and steal his child. Their dirty laundry has caused a huge stink at Skyline and for that they are apologetic, much to the shock of the rest of us.
A Texas Grandfather says:
July 13, 2017 at 10:30 am
erose
snip>
Little Kyron was not in the care of his stepmother at the time of his disappearance. He was under the care and supervision of the school. As soon as any child sets foot on the property of a school when it is in session, they become responsible for his or her safety. This also extends to any conveyance owned by the school or contracted by the school used to move students to or from the school.
In this case, the school has been able to deflect that responsibility with the help of MCSO and PPB along with poor behavior of the District attorney. Within thirty days, the bio parents should have filed a suit against the school and then followed with one against MCSO. Why didn’t they?
http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2017/07/clackamas_county_commissioners_43.html
Clackamas County commissioners to hire outside consultant to review Sheriff’s Office
**********
Too bad MCSO’s commissioners haven’t done the same of Staton’s legacy.
If MCSO is doing the searches for Kyron and there will not be a civi suit filed against TH. Then what is DY collecting money for on the gofundme site?
I see that Soldier is begging for donations via twitter. What expenses does DY have. I don’t see any car washes or vigils planned for Kyron in the future so why has the request for people to sen money increased? And what would the money be for?
I would not want to donate If the money is going to be used to enable stalking across state lines (which I believe is illegal).
https://www.gofundme.com/kyronhorman
ot ” that if we contrast the leadership of the District Attorney’s in the respective cases, what is the same and what is different? ”
I have not seen the latest, apart from one pic today, but my
impressions last night:
–he was unlikely to dig a 12.5 mass grave alone using one guesses his father’s construction vehicle
=a peer alluded to a mental illness defense based on a severe frontal lobe injury in the last year.
— imo severe frontal lobe damage would not be enough for a defense.
plenty of folks have same thru drugs or mechanical injury and while they are disinhibited in the extreme or have very poor impulse control, they function OK in their job field (say a TV or movie star) but assuredly do not go on murder sprees.
–probably drugs in the mix somewhere
–self-pic today (Instagram or FB?) showed him wild-eyed as one would think a person high, but more likely the mien of a paranoid schiz or bipolar, manic phase. I think only command auditory hallucinations would work as a defense if he had them when it comes to killing a4 friends in short order.
==poor parents. 19 years ago they had such hopes.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
different v same wrt Mult County off the top of my head.
First,Multnomah does not charge w/o a grand jury. Sheriff in consultation w/DA in Bucks went ahead with 2 verifiable charges. It seems to me Multnomah always uses a grand jury to file a charge because for decades and decades the Sheriff’s Office has been inhabited by known corrupt and untrustworthy sheriffs by and large from FatherShrunk on down to Staton and Guisto. And, it’s just a shady way to affix charges in simple, noncomplex cases. the latter actually would benefit from a GJ.
second, Bucks found a statute violated (gun in hands of previously involuntarily committed mentally ill (let’s hear it for that gun law)and went with the lessor charge to get him off the streets. Didn’t overcharge initially. Mult has always “overcharged” Terri.
in contrast, Mult DA and LE fabricated a spurious sting and accusation with an illegal alien and a promise of nondeportation, and publicized
the unproven accusation to poison the public.
Bucks Sheriff is not a blowhard and keeps evidence close to his vest.
ot ok i looked at today’s press. with a lawyer like dinardo’s, who needs enemies? way premature to “confess.”. my guess is his parents’ big atty threw his weight around with their son’s. So maybe pops is an accessory. or someone is. he’s too disorganized.
Obvs even if I had first hand knowledge I could not share it, but my guess is it made sense to make sure the dp was off the table as I am pretty sure there will be aggravators involved here and once the families are made aware of those- it would be difficult to convince them to fall in line on the issue.
B
Put mcgrath at the 99.5% on the spectrum of the DA as a law unto himself scale (imo a piece of work poseur bcz he is NEVER challenged for his office, always has 100% of vote, thus is complacent). I’ll give Mult DA 99% uner Shrunk, & successor at 85% on then”I’m the Law” spectrum, not the Constitution nor statutes, . Underhill has more windowdressing than mcgrath/shrunk (that ethics inhouse ada) and does good bread and butter stuff. but he’s easy on political hot potatoes (drugs, aliens, holding cops in unions accountable) and he imo salivates to win big politically correct cases just like shrunk did, ie get Terri..
at the other end of the spectrum is this bucks county weintraub. who apparently is righteous on both law and procedure, Another righteous PA prosecutor without fear or favor imo was Stacey Miller, & it cost her her job. mcgrath & underhill are job keepers.
fwiw http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/366190-247650-consultant-will-review-clackamas-sheriffs-policies
Excellent question, Texan. Excellent question.
IMO, the answer to that would go a long way toward solving the case.
Bottom line, this is insane and we are seemingly helpless to do anything about it.
T. Ruth says:
July 13, 2017 at 1:23 pm
snip>
This is insane.
To the nth.
And.. Kyron is nowhere to be found… still.
This is not what an investigation 7 plus years looks like if the singular priority is locating this child.
B
erose says:
July 14, 2017 at 1:33 am
Bottom line, this is insane and we are seemingly helpless to do anything about it.
T. Ruth says:
July 13, 2017 at 1:23 pm
snip>
This is insane.
To the nth.
And.. Kyron is nowhere to be found… still.
This is not what an investigation 7 plus years looks like if the singular priority is locating this child.
B
——
Indeed. If one assumes that local “reporters” read here, or have at least heard of on-line chatter such that we have here, you would think SOMEONE would jump on the story. Heck, you might even believe that a local (parent at skyline? interested resident? Ky’s own father?) would stir things up with the local press enough to get someone to pay attention. Or how about DY? She’s got to at least question the status quo, even if she can’t vocalize because of “guilt”.
With the People Mag article, Dr. Phil appearances – a decent reporter or other intrigued with the story could pick it up and run with all the unasked/unanswered questions.
Maybe we are the only ones that are paying attention?
The whole thing is just weird.
I would like to know why soldier keeps saying dy saw on terri[s computer that he was to be absent on the 4th is it true or not? I was glad to finally find out that neither terri or Kaine didn’t know about the talent show.
I don’t know what soldier says as I do not read there, but I have heard DY posted at one time that TH sent an email to Porter excusing him for the day or words to that effect if that is what you are referencing “oldladysmith”.
What I can tell you is it simply never happened. TH sent an email to Porter asking her if the science project needed to be picked up that day (6/4) or was staying through Monday. Porter never replied to Terri as it appears she only got it after the kids already left for the day, and apparently she thought (she said) Kyron was with Terri at Kitty’s appointment (which was the day before and Terri never said that to her). This is an important distinction because it was another opportunity where Porter could have realized Kyron was actually missing and not with Terri in the first place. One thing I would like to remind folks is that at one time DY and her lawyers conducted discovery in a civil case and that allowed Terri to investigate and participate in same. Terri’s counsel has copies of her computer and phone records and I can tell you with certainty it would refute DY assertion in total. If Desiree could ever have produced a scintilla of admissible evidence that Kyron left with Terri, or that Terri facilitated him having an excused absence she never would have dismissed her own suit and Terri probably would have been indicted.
Welcome to BOC oldladysmith!
B
first-time, Weird is the word. I remember way back thinking this could be another balloon boy story. Remember that? Nothing made any sense. Just seems with Kyron is he had a dysfunctional family, dysfunctional school and dysfunctional LE. No one had the ball, wants the ball or is looking for the ball.
if these 2 aren’t the most disorganized criminals:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/us/pennsylvania-bucks-county-cosmo-dinardo-sean-kratz.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share NYTimes: Two 20-Year-Olds Accused of Luring 4 Men to Farm and Killing Them
Apparently the DA made the deal to locate body 4. I had forgotten Blink deceased families expect to sign on to deals:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/us/pennsylvania-bucks-county-cosmo-dinardo-sean-kratz.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share NYTimes: Two 20-Year-Olds Accused of Luring 4 Men to Farm and Killing Them
I think it unfortunate he won’t be confined to a forensic locked mental hosp for life.
—
One diff with Kyron, if DA Shrunk/Underhill truly thot her guilty,
he could have taken dp off (does OR have it?) for a plea and the body
as Weintraub did.
As I knew you would, lol, this is at the core of my posited “contrast”. At the height of the discovery of some inconceivable crimes to multiple missing men- critical “lawyering” won the day here. I apologize in advance because “winning the day” meant recovery of remains that would not have been otherwise detected (potentially) and ultimately the chief perp and his conspirator/accomplice are in jail, the family members have answers and the ability to lay them to rest as they see fit. I truly feel that in this set of circumstances both the DA and the defense counsel did their respective jobs well and more importantly, respected the process and potential for best outcome for the victim families as wefit ll. In a perfect world and all that…
B
Blink, if you read Mathews’ depo, can you
verify she said for sure she did NOT recognize
SZ as a PPS employee?
Rose I am going to stay away from the contents of Ms. Matthews deposition except to say it supported the account of SZ I have provided previously and from a timeline perspective put Kyron disappearance from that classroom between 9:05am and 10:20- that’s the best I got.
B
Anyone else notice the 3rd judge of the 3 Brown just appointed, iirc Powers, seemed to be preceding the Gov’s public safety advisor Moawad as to career path? First ADA in Mult Cty, then Kitz’ political public safety advisor. Once I thot departure from Mult Cty was a career “correction” for Kyron’s 2010-11 full time ADA due to her practice in that an other cases. now I think it a political reward bcz she continued, and iirc enlarged, her political Gov job under Brown==staying power. Probably en route to her own judgeship in Mult Cty.
——————–
Whst I know now. PPS has been pervasively administratively dysfunctional for decades…at the top echelon…and no one suffers professional accountability from principals put on paid leave for years, to top administrators. PPS could’ve lost a massive suit to the bios and top employees would have rolled merrily along. So, apart from the PPS lawyer now with Miller Nash, who probably wanted that job all along in the private sector, I don’t think PPS Admin gave a hoot whether parents sued or not.
______________________________
One also considers Skyline due to its small size and community support and homogeneity was perhaps a school lower performing employees were moved to. Consider the well-liked and genial principal. He had real performance issues. (probably putting the deaf Porter in charge of the Sci Fair despite being a new teacher and probably overwhelmed was an example). for example, he wrote in a newsletter he’d been told by his supervisor the school was not following the rules re door security, so he was now gonna follow the rules, and listed them (what doors would be locked etc). He failed to follow thru after his own public newsletter discussion of his reprimand. Porter being placed there shows her favoritism by admin imo, rather than going to another school…even her grade assignment to me is problematic (the ages where reading and writing skills really matter). So, who else was a vulnerable teacher in work skills and was given an “easy” school?
______________________________________
I also think it unusual the Spec Ed in what was his first job post-CA licensing that he followed Keefer to George, but apparently left PPS for another State (Washington) when Keefer left that school despite his age and years in PERS. While he was absent that day, he easily could’ve stopped in for some materials (say for a central iep), and I remember MCSO saying they wanted to know of anyone seen at Skyline who was NOT on the List.
______________________________
good catch erose on Desiree’s explanation for why she believed Kyron left with Terri. I don’t think people or kids told her personally. I think she conflates herself with MCSO and was repeating what some deputy told her from the “interviews” early on. We know from Blink she did go back to the car with both kids to retrieve something, but then returned to the school and Kyron was seen after she verifiedly left. Why she still publicizes this misinformation long after the SZ departure with Kyron is known speaks to her mental inflexibility, which I think was there long before and long after Kyron was kidnapped and is not the product of the abduction trauma.
___________________________________________
@ T. Ruth says:
July 13, 2017 at 5:52 pm
Kafoury won’t do anything to embarrass Reese or rock his job boat.
She prob wants him to run as a Commissioner after retiring as Sheriff.
forget the Mayor job.
OT did you guys see a US Congressman from OR has nominated the brother of his female aide, and his personal friend, for the Oregon seat on the 9th Circ Court of Appeals!!! iirc His qualifications are graduating from Yale (at least there’s that) and being in the Federalist Society. Why not start out in Mult Cty Superior Court for experience?
I see erose it was Soldier, who else, republishing those misleading and informationally incorrect statements by Desiree. Since the Davidsons allegedly read and approve all she writes, one said, they really ought to correct the record Soldier is republishing with verbatim quotes of Desiree’s prior posts. Unless Desiree wants the public mislead of course.
‘This is not what an investigation 7 plus years looks like if the singular priority is locating this child.
B’
Super dysfunctional set of relationships between each bio for their own reasons and one to three (over time) MSCO employees. Imo DA knows he will never try this case successfully, but will go for an indictment before Brown signs that new GJ statute and will assign some ADA to try it win lose or draw. Whatever the outcome, Rod will get the bios and mcso off his back and put this case and the dysfunctional bio/mcso system behind him by merely indicting her and proceeding good faith to trial. And if individual “detectives” look bad at trial, imo I doubt he cares. O’Donnell is detective history anyway, Rod doesn’t use him now.
Rose on the issue of indictment, I respectfully disagree. The bios are not on his back at all and Rees’s briefs have already put the burden back on MCSO as being the impetus for suspending the gj multiple times (at their request). The MCSO was in the puppet booth for the 2 failed arrests of Horman out of state, and he literally passed the buck on a foia request on Rea- in my view to avoid an appeal of the info being exempt in the first place. Once a DA seeks an indictment there is really no way to throw this back at MCSO. I have yet to have a conversation with any Oregon criminal defense attorney, most of which come from the MCDA office at one time or another, who has EVER seen a second gj empanelled for this length of time in an open criminal matter in Oregon history. Nobody is even sure it is lawful.
Until and if Kyron is found, in my view MCDA will never seek nor get an indictment against Terri Horman. They have yet to establish a crime was committed- they truly can’t even foot the bill of particulars which is their burden.
B
Rose says:
July 12, 2017 at 4:47 pm
imo Reese wants to ride to his next election on a charge, if not a
conviction. .
————
Since they have no evidence Kyron is deceased or what actually happened to him and even his father believes he is still alive. What charge would they convict TH for. Custodial interference maybe kidnapping but they don’t have any proof she took him from the school and they have been unable to connect her to anyone who might have taken him. Or even prove that anyone took him from the school that day. He walked out to the parking lot with a man but there is no proof he did not return from the parking lot no one saw him being removed from the school grounds by anyone.
If they tried her for murdering/kidnapping Kyron and she was found innocent (because they don’t have any/enough evidence)then double jeopardy would be in force and they could never put her on trial for those charges again.I don’t think that would do much for Reesse’s career.
Usually when a murder conviction is successful without a body there is some sort of physical evidence blood murder weapon etc. Sometimes if its an adult that has been murdered they look to abandonment of family and friends not using credit cards leaving purse and automobile behind plus statements by relatives and friends of the missing person saying that there was some sort of friction between the perpetrator and the victim.
Or with children abuse/neglect reports made to DHS by neighbors, doctors or school officials.
They have none of the above with Kyron. all they have is hundreds of pictures (taken by TH) of a happy smiling Kyron living a normal life.
IMO
Unless something drastically changes or some really good evidence is found I don’t see how TH will ever stand trial in Kyrons disappearance. Maybe a civil suit but we saw how that worked out in 2013. I wonder Does MCSO/Reese really even still believe that TH actually did anything to Kyron.
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As far as a tainted jury pool I live in the Portland area and II have not ever run into anyone who knew anything about Kyron’se case. It seems to us that this is a case that a lot of people have opinion about(and there is quite a few) but I am pretty sure a jury that was neutral about the case would not be that hard to find in Multnomah county it only requires 12 people.
Muttnomah county has a pretty liberal population so some of TH’s seamier escapades would not be as important to jurors drawn from the Portland area. I don’t think Houze would want to move the case to another county in Oregon which could be more conservative.
I think that the fact that the first gj resulted in a second empanelled jury speaks volumes in this case, imo. I agree that additional recent cases reflect a “jury pool” that would absolutely never convict people on such things as has been put before them as “evidence beyond a reasonable doubt” and the DA knows this.
B
OT Mult Cty Circ Court is a waste of time job for this lawyer.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/07/kate_browns_state_lawyer_skipp.html#incart_river_mobile_home
When the criminal justice system is compromised by bad behavior of some, the entire system fails to work as intended. This is the prime reason that Kyron has not been found and may never be.
Poor behavior choices that may border on criminal behavior by the bio parents has probably been the prime reason that zero pressure has been placed on LE and the school. It has become a “don’t stir the pot” situation where if something is found, there may be undesirable personal repercussions.
Kaine Horman’s statement early on about it may take four or five years to solve could be a clue that he will wait that long before taking any action. Could that be because a statue of limitations for criminal charges has run its course? Just speculation on the motive for doing nothing.
O/T
It appears that Rose was correct on the Buck’s County case. The perp was a known drug dealer and the missing youths either tried or had stiffed him about payment. Drug dealers will kill to protect their illegal activities.
The size of the grave dug by a backhoe on a std. size tractor was indicated to be twelve feet deep. That is generally in the area of maximum reach for the backhoe. The perp was probably thinking that he would get the depth sufficient to prevent cadaver dogs from findng the grave. I don’t know what effect the burning of a body would have on the ability for dogs to find a scent.
thanks for your assessment, Blink. I actually agree with cd on all she says re evidence and trial site. Mult has a diverse and broad jury pool and enough will qualify. trying in a “liberal” county is important, not that sexting etc will come in–that related to the mfh case which was a lie and is kaput.
I look at DA Underhill’s position. and motivations. a wife who makes her living wrt legal ethics notwithstanding. if ethics motivated him, he’d have dropped the GJ 2, done a press release wrt DDS, and emphasized publically TH is not a suspect.
His motivation? He was 55 when elected in 2016. He’s got one more run anyway. Last time he had no opponent, tho at one time Riddell said he wanted to run. And Riddell had made hay out of the MCSO mismanagement. so, #1 Underhill needs to deter by late 2019 any opponent filing. If he succeeds, the job is his for four more. Should someone credible file, like Riddell, he needs to be sure not only this case, but a number of other matters are under control.
With this case, imo he does not want an open GJ in 2019 – one among many political backbites. So, two options, a near term indictment, followed by a swift trial, and an acquittal won’t matter a hoot to his race in late 2019 to May 2020. OR, an indictment in late 2019–which he can use in his election publicity (I did it), but no trial before May 2020 vote. So either he does it now, by mid-Fall, or he postpones til late 2019.
I think the bill (why has Brown postponed signing it??) which precludes victims spokespersons for both bios and Kyron in the jury pool is a motivator for near term. That testimony is what could get a ham sandwich indicted.
Otherwise, as cd says, there is no evidence. Desiree, mcso detectives, and maybe Kaine think or thought there is circumstantial evidence and that is enough. Tony had the quintessential circumstantial murder case, the one with the knife homicide, that he rode to his own sense of his own prowess on. I think the guy would not have been convicted if he were not a lower socio-econ Hispanic in rural Oregon. Tony thinks and has said, however, as has Desiree, “circumstantial evidence” in the quantity and kind they attribute to TMH suffices to try and win a case.
My feeling is Rod will want to go on with his career. The best way to do that is to put this case behind him. Imo he needed feel he has to win. He knows it’s not Terri; he doesn’t know who it was and with mcso in charge, he never will. If he wanted answers, he’d have moved with the County commissioner to get the case reassigned at least to the State long ago.
Imo with his many goals in office, this case has been on his back burner. With mcso’s disreputable behavior, Desiree’s wild card antics, and so on, he can’t leave it back burner til the next election.
I think cd Underhill will take this case to trial to put it behind him knowing full well he is likely to lose (actually he’ll just stick a hapless ADA on it), and he doesn’t care about double jeopardy because he knows by gut and evidence she is not involved. It actually will help her to be charged and acquitted. And Kaine will have to barf up custody and visitation in some manner.
Something still has to qualify as circumstantial evidence as it is offered though. It still has to support the “truth of the matter asserted”. It must be foundational as to the allegation for the trier of fact and the prosecutor can only offer it if he believes he can secure a verdict beyond a reasonable doubt. One can’t bring a case to trial unable to assert whether or not this child just walked off into the wilderness, some grandma house made of candy and unwittingly made her way into his oven, got pulled out from the window and headed off with Pan- OR state it “is possible” he met with a criminal act unknown at the hands of his step mom and some unknown person. This was 4 years ago, but I am quite confident that if Underhill felt he had a shot at that, it died with the clearing of Spicher, as did the civil case.
I do not disagree with you whatsoever that Terri Horman remains that little duck on a loop that every single LEA MCSO can get their hands on will shoot at. I think we all have just witnessed MCSO best efforts at effecting this, and its failure. I cannot tell you how badly I have wished for some evidence against ANYONE in this case to facilitate finding Kyron, by any means. Like all of you, I never cared nor care where it leads (actually) if Kyron is recovered, do not care about being right or wrong or about who is or was involved. Seven years in I cannot help but feeling this case is further away from resolution than ever.
B
the very fact Underhill keeps a sitting 2nd GJ means he intends to indict at some point. What makes the most sense relating to the May 2020 election, and theoretical filing opponents’ deadlines?
Again, I respectfully disagree, but that does not mean I am right. The use of the grand jury in and of itself may be strictly investigative of the crime and not a target. We simply do not know for sure. The only thing I do know is the rules for a 2nd gj in a criminal matter and they are also dependent on what is a presumptive status of the first. It’s one way to get another jury empannelled if this Judge retires (they are) and/or the entire panel cannot hear the beginning and end of the evidence as they are required. Is Underhill going to do the 3rd times the charm on a Stephen Houze client? I doubt that highly. Frequently gj have subpoena power muni judges or magistrates may not, or may choose not to give as another example. Is it a case of giving the appearance of an indictment or other? Maybe the gj feedback just bought MCSO some new forensic extraction software and training? Who knows?
I just know that I have taken the time to ask some of the greatest legal minds in the field in Oregon, who in some cases, have actually taken up the issue with their own great legal minds list and not one of them can tell me they have ever seen this before, either in their jurisdiction or in Fed court similarly. I have no explanation, lol.
B
Thanks for the insight Blink.
3rd times the charm? what are the rules wrt a 3rd GJ on same matter?
And if slow-po Gov ever signs her legislation, next one will have a transcript.
That’s the thing. I am not sure the 2nd is following the rules so I cannot say what the 3rd would “look like”, we are already in uncharted territory as it is.
B
so you are saying mcso asked DA to suspend GJ2 repeatedly? Why? GJ deliberations are secret. how would anyone in mcso know which way the wind was blowing ( ditto outcome as GJ 1 projected) unless DA shop told mcso?
Excellent question Rose- I am only repeating Rees’s words. I have never heard of that before as you point out-
B
Rose says:
July 15, 2017 at 3:13 pm
the very fact Underhill keeps a sitting 2nd GJ means he intends to indict at some point. What makes the most sense relating to the May 2020 election, and theoretical filing opponents’ deadlines?
————
Maybe he is just hoping that some sort of Hail Mary evidence will turn up against TH that he can present to his empaneled GJ. I also believe that keeping the GJ empaneled keeps southern Oregon media and so called investigative reporters like Kyle Iboshi from believing that Kyrons case has gone cold.
Just to reemphasize, I do not think Underhill cares
professionally if TH is acquitted or he has 1 bite at the apple (doubke jeopardy).
He knows there will never be a winnable tryable case.
unless a meteor hits with body & her dna.
He therefore falls back on what’s best for himself
politically to put this forever behind his office.
if I were a grand juror with subpoena power I’d haul in every employee at Skyline, everyone on The List, both bios and their 1-2 degree family members, to include all 3 sets of granparents, both stepsons, the pediatrian’s rwcord keeper and records, every le employee who ever interfaced with the case. and that would be a mere start. & all of the nune 1-4 skyline ps phone and email records (imo those were never lost)
Rose says:
July 15, 2017 at 7:16 pm
if I were a grand juror with subpoena power I’d haul in every employee at Skyline, everyone on The List, both bios and their 1-2 degree family members, to include all 3 sets of granparents, both stepsons, the pediatrian’s rwcord keeper and records, every le employee who ever interfaced with the case. and that would be a mere start. & all of the nune 1-4 skyline ps phone and email records (imo those were never lost)
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It seemed to me when I was on a GJ(years ago) that we only heard from witnesses and reviewed evidence that the DA provided.I am not sure if it was an option to subpoena witnesses not provided by the DA which does not mean that it was not..
I don’t know much about GJ’s but it seems like when GJ is empaneled especially for time periods greater then a year that they would only actually meet when a new piece of evidence was found and the DA wanted the GJ to see/hear it. So most of the time these are just folks sitting at home waiting to be called in to hear more evidence. So as the years go by could jurors move out of state or otherwise no longer be able to be part of the empaneled jury because of illness or injury. its just odd to me that the DA would keep the same GJ empaneled for years at a time.
Correct, individual jurors do not have the right/authority to subpoena directly, it would have to be asked of them as a group by the DA, arising from some form of evidence or witness testimony. However, to Rose’s point a g juror certainly could make that request of a DA. As an example, I have seen some DA’s use them to get an investigative subpoena to preserve testimony of witnesses, seal it, and recall them or use it as a comparative but allows the subject the same immunity protections granted in that “interview” process. Some DA’s use them to shop what I would term as evergreen warrants a Judge is not likely to grant under their 4 corners doctrine. Oregon is very unique in its use of grand juries in that they function more like a preliminary hearing or probable cause hearing and up until this year was one of only 2 states in the US that relied on juror notes as their record. That said, I am told the specific circumstances of the currently empanneled grand jury to hear evidence in Kyron’s case are unheard of in any jurisdiction, not just Multnomah County.
With the failure of the first grand jury here, I am inclined to believe that the empannelled grand jury is hearing evidence as long as it has as an investigative grand jury so as to advise what exact crime has been committed, as opposed to being attached to a specific person. Bottom line here- if nobody can present the particulars of this crime such as “Certainty of the crime charged” by law no jury can indict an individual. They must be “direct and certain” as to the party charged, crime charged and the particular circumstances of that crime” to constitute a complete crime.
Of interest which may impact the ability to request public information in Oregon, beginning Jan 1 2018:
https://capitolinsider.osbar.org/2017/07/10/july-10-2017/#one
B
I agree fully with the grand juror idea Rose. This ,if possible, should have happened in the beginning. Too much corruption in the Portland area Criminal Justice system to get it done any other way.
O/T
If anyone was watching the judge Pirro show on Fox this evening, she visited the,under construction, Bible museum and provided video of some of the items to be on display. There, to my surprise, was the Liberty Bell from Liberty County,Texas that I stood beside in early April. An exact copy of the original, cast from the same mold in the same foundry in England.
They actually rang it for the audience. It sounds 1st line treble clef Eb. On a piano, it is the second black key above middle C.
This is probably a loan for a period of time. The bell was inside the County library on the frame shown in the video when I saw it. The original bell tower had been damaged by winds from a hurricane and was no longer safe.
ATG- That first gj tells a story I want to hear, lol. That said, I am confident based on my interviews and conversations that it ended in a “no true bill”. o/t: Lovely!
B
This is a right to know summary for a federal grand jury, I wonder if it applies to states.
snip>
The public is entitled to limited information about any current grand jury. To obtain that information, you need to send a public records request to the Clerk of the Court for the federal court where the grand jury is taking place. Below please find a template for the information that is normally provided by the Courts. This information will provide you with (1) the date the grand jury began (empaneled) so that you can determine when the grand jury period will expire (unless extended); (2) how often the grand jury is scheduled to meet; (3) whether it is a regular or special grand jury; (4) whether there are any special jury instructions the Court provided to the grand jury to use while determining whether an indictment should issue.
https://cldc.org/organizing-resources/grand-juries/
That’s a great resource erose, but unfortunately, no- it does not apply to Multnomah County or any State gj under OR statute.
B
That’s a great resource erose, but unfortunately, no- it does not apply to Multnomah County or any State gj under OR statute.
B
Figures. I was reading up about GJ’s in general (looking for the longest empanelled, or the case with most GJ’s looking to at least get a Guinness World Book Record, snark) and found that Liberia and the US are the only ones who still use them. Still the old style grand jury would have been perfect for this case as they were at times tool for the general public pursuit of justice. How great would it be that some parent at Skyline School could have brought Kyron’s case to a grand jury.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/09/21/dr-phil-show-hosts-missing-portland-child-kyron-hormans-step-mom-terri-horman-over-two-episodes/#comments