Dr. Phil Show Hosts Missing Portland Child Kyron Horman’s Step Mom Terri Horman Over Two Episodes

I have been covering this case since Kyron Horman disappeared from Skyline School in June, 2010.    Like most missing persons cases I have covered in the past,  I am of the strong opinion that best efforts at the truth are the only way to propel investigations that, similarly to Kyron’s, have gone cold for one reason or another.   This approach has worked in resolving some of my previous cases.    I am proud of that.  I remain steadfast to the integrity involved in those and future cases.

Over the past 10 months (or so) I have been developing an updated series on Kyron’s case to include my multiple interviews with Kyron’s step-mom,  Terri Horman.   Needless to say as she was the subject of at least three simultaneous cases before an Oregon court and remains a person of interest by the agency investigating her sons disappearance, this has been an arduous and sometimes delicate journey.    Ms. Horman’s experiences during the ongoing investigation of the disappearance of Kyron Horman are critically important to propelling his case and with great hope- finding the truth about what happened to this cherubic and innocent child.    There are dozens of sources,  collateral interviews, forensic experts and legal analysts that also contribute to my series and have done so because of their belief that my motivation is to bring to light information and opinions in such a way that would almost “require” a focused review of Kyron’s case and the likely shaking of that proverbial tree everyone talks about.

Set to publish about 6-ish weeks ago I was asked to postpone the first installment of the series, which I did.  I subsequently learned Ms. Horman was participating in the Dr. Phil program after she completed taping.  Dr. Phils producers were well aware that Ms. Horman had interviewed with me extensively, and anticipated my series would be publishing information that was not known to the public previously in the days prior to her scheduled episode.    When Ms. Horman conveyed to me that she feels obligated to speak out about “her son” in any national medium that will have her,   I most certainly respected that.  I still do.

While Dr. Phil seems like a gregarious fellow for sure,   I have zero interest in being associated with his program, nor do I believe his shows content is designed to do any furtherance of investigation or truth.  There is much concern (although I have no affiliation to the show whatsoever) that the timing of the publication of my series on the Kyron Horman matter might be interpreted differently or inadvertently contribute to the programs content or audience reactions.     Not what I signed on for.   A missing 7 year old boy six years running is not a framework for entertaining a target audience.   He is not fodder for online social media bully campaigns- yet it occurs.

I will be publishing my series on Kyron’s case at a later date, in it’s entirety with no editing adjustments as a result of any of the appearances on Dr. Phil.   I appreciate your patience and your understanding.   Feel free to discuss the show below.

 

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6,460 Comments

  1. Rose says:

    @TRuth re ML retirement in 5/16. Apparently she wanted to retire at higher rank (acting chief deputy ) when Balizan walked in the door. My memory of Reese’s first org chart had her bk in corrections tho

  2. Rose says:

    Site I saw had L David G Sr as 73.

  3. Rose says:

    W/Krafve hired in ‘87, one would be surprised if he hadn’t retired.

    There’s generally an awards ceremony the 2nd week of Nov
    where there are so many awards one sees who works where.
    Apparently not this year.

  4. Rose says:

    a question prompted by the 4th Chief Deputy position: Whether an Asst Sheriff position will be created (one existed in 2010) after the election during the May budget, and if so whether it goes to Balizan (who maybe got Business as a placeholder til he qualifued as a Deputy) or to Marshman, or a dark horse?

  5. Rose says:

    imo, the redoubtable Vera Pool will teach
    Capt Alexander all he needs to know.

  6. Rose says:

    In 09/2011 Lt Derrick Peterson was PIO before he went to Corrections.
    Now Corrections Facilities Chief Deputy.
    looks like he followed in Lindstrand’s wake. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/09/multnomah_county_sheriffs_empl.html
    and he’s a step ahead of Alexander.

  7. Rose says:

    one of the entities missing is SAR, last seen under M Herron.
    https://www.mcso.us/site/pdf/org_chart.pdf
    command structure was Chief Deputy to Captn to Sgt in charge, Herron.
    One also wonders why River Patrol is under Investigations.

  8. Rose says:

    09/19 OSP youtube Cold Case Det Gossun ‪HelpIDMe Namus #5319 https://youtu.be/QHHqLobZb50 via @YouTube‬

  9. T. Ruth says:

    Sorry, I meant Lindstrand retired May 2017, not 2016.

  10. T. Ruth says:

    https://twitter.com/MultCoSO/status/858077441557798912

    Congratulations to Captain M. Lindstrand on her retirement after 30+ years of service! Thank you for your service!
    ***********
    Actually, it was April 2017. LOL, my memory was close.

  11. T. Ruth says:

    I wonder how DY & KH feel about all these folks that were connected to Kyron’s case retiring. Do they still feel like the case is *active*? I’m sure it won’t be long before a few more retire.
    All the more reason, IMHO to request this case be moved to the FBI.

  12. T. Ruth says:

    I’m not sure reward money ever really works, but since there is one being offered I have to wonder why no one has raised the reward money being offered for over 7 years. Both parents have been raising money, why not add at least some of it to the reward fund being offered? $50k is small potatoes compared to some of the reward funds I’ve seen. Heck a simple $3K raised in one year for seven years would have this fund up to $75k by now. Why hasn’t anyone started a GoFundMe page to increase the reward money? One never knows what kind of money-hungry individual might just have some information that could actually further this case. Seems like it would be much more beneficial to finding Kyron than selling bracelets or putting on searches to try to nail Terri. JMO

  13. T. Ruth says:

    Ode says:
    August 28, 2016 at 2:17 pm

    Whoever was in the truck at the end of the road Mr. Kelly saw certainly could be watching another house thinking it was connected in some way to Kyron. We can be fairly certain it was not Terri or Kaine’s truck. If Kyron was taken by mistake, the other parents of the targeted child may have been contacted and they realized someone took the wrong boy. The first sighting was around 3pm and Kyron was not known to be missing yet. The other family may have known someone was missing besides their son. There was a father of one of Kyron’s classmates found dead in his car after Kyron’s disappearance. I remember a picture of his wife with long red hair. I think there was some connection with drugs with one of the parents. It’s sad that Kyron’s bios are so fixated on Terri. They will never ask someone to look in another direction. Their action has resulted in their own dirt being thrown about (and most of us have some dirt somewhere) but do not have to worry about it exposed and discussed.

    http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/01/21/kyron-horman-missing-case-terri-horman-breaks-her-silence-in-people-magazine-interview/comment-page-86/

    Ode, this old post got me thinking. (I believe the man was found dead on his front lawn, though, not inside his car.? I think the last name started with a C. ?) But what IF Kyron was taken by accident, a case of mistaken identity? What if it was a case of revenge being carried out on some other person’s child, but the perp got the wrong one. It could certainly explain why this case has gone nowhere.

    Along those lines, I remember when the family released Kyron’s videos, the one where he was whistling in a school performance. I think it was someone here who noted (sorry, can’t remember who to give them credit for being astute) that there was a child who looked somewhat like Kyron who appeared in that video when the video first started to run, then suddenly that child was no longer there when the video panned back. It was strange. I recall saying something like well maybe he went to the bathroom. (But in the middle of the performance?) Is it possible his parents whomever they are, didn’t want their son being filmed for some reason? Is it possible the child was perhaps part of a custody battle and was already a missing kid or kidnapped or taken by one parent, while the other was out looking for him? IDK, but you’ve got my imagination going now. I’m thinking that video is no longer out there, or just the second part, where it no longer shows that look-alike child. hmmmm?

  14. Rose says:

    wrt “T. Ruth says:
    November 16, 2017 at 12:36 pm
    I wonder how DY & KH feel about all these folks that were connected to Kyron’s case retiring. Do they still feel like the case is *active*? I’m sure it won’t be long before a few more retire. All the more reason, IMHO to request this case be moved to the FBI.”http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/09/21/dr-phil-show-hosts-missing-portland-child-kyron-hormans-step-mom-terri-horman-over-two-episodes/#comments
    ____________________________________________________
    The Detective who has had Kyron’s case for several years undoubtedly still has it, despite the “new supervisor.” Desiree was quite enamored of him and on Soldier’s site once called him, or Kelley did, “relentless aggressive.” That is Levi Y. So, Desiree is not experiencing any direct change, and liked the case investigator, at least at one time.
    _______________________________________________________
    If one can’t find an mcso awards ceremony to delineate personnel, there’s always Gresham (fall 2016). Look at the second Unit Citation (East County Major Crimes team), and then look at the MCSO personnel listed.
    https://greshamoregon.gov/Gresham-Police-Awards/

    Yandell is on it. (Gosson was in 2010). So is Yohe, and Krafve/Eriksen,Walls. I found cites for Eriksen partnering some of these Kyron detectives on other matters in 2010-11 etc. He founded and spent years on a program to orient citizens to the work of MCSO. He’s promoted up or out from investigations, apparently, iirc to Training, which seems a good fit. So, maybe Gosson has returned to the ECMCTeam. Imo nothing will change for Kyron as long as Yandell continues to be in charge. Gosson has no incentive to transfer it to FBI as he will want to return to the investigation as supervisor and offer some direction imo. One supposes a synonym for “relentless aggressive” is “stubborn.” We shall see, but there’s been no movement since he’s had it. If I were Gosson, I’d at least reassign.

    Yandell is assigned to the case, but to my knowledge he is not the “lead” or case manager.
    B

  15. Rose says:

    If Gosson’s really in charge of investigations, he should be a Lt, like Walls, not a Sgt.

    Agreed, notably to me he was in a supervisory role over Odonnell in 2010. After reading some former “complaints” re the promotional candidacy and approval process for rank promos, I am not surprised though.

    That said, my greater concern is the amount of “deputy” status individuals who are part of “investigations”.
    I can’t say that I have ever seen the equivalent of a traffic cop (not a slight in any way) investigating complex high profile cases with a high percentage of possible civil liability to a public school and/or staff.

    I have often mentioned the Ryan Ferguson civil suit as it progressed- specifically the ruling that the LEA was not entitled to immunity- NOT being tied to whether or not the plaintiff was in custody then or ultimately. This was a critically important issue because it sets precedent for events leading up to an arrest, but not predicated on whether or not the individual is arrested or incarcerated wrongfully- it is dispositive of the acts and actors.

    This July he was awarded $10 million. Russ Faria is following in that “suit” currently. I believe Steve Houze’s recently acquitted client is as well. Important note here- these are civil rights violations, not garden variety negligence. I truly wonder whether the MCSO is anticipatory of possible civil actions, escalated oversight investigation or “other”. Having absolutely nothing to do with what should be the priority- locating a missing child in what is about to be the 8th year.

    B

  16. Rose says:

    This is like reading the tea leaves on Mueller’s investigation based on what staff he has employed. Note Rees is the DA in charge on the ECMCTeam.

  17. Rose says:

    https://www.portlandoregon.gov/inr_view.cfm?id=1094
    what appears to be an official Portland govt site for the Enforcement Div has Yandell as contact point for Detectives. Herron for SAR, and it is under Enforcement.

  18. Rose says:

    looking at E Cty Majir Crimes for job hx, one sees 3 yrs prior to the 2016 Awards a deputy whose Enforcement assignmt was community patrol in Rosewood: And a great one she was http://www.catholicsentinel.org/Content/News/Local/Article/Deputy-goes-beyond-call-of-duty-for-Rosewood-kids/2/35/20423 She’d recently had a baby, so it only made sense to be reassigned to ECMCTeam to play the role of Crisis/Hostage Negotiator for the Team per LinkedIn. .

  19. Rose says:

    You weren’t far off with traffic cops making ECMCTeam Detective, Blink. http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20272
    But ine has to start in mcso somewhere, if not traffic, then river patrol.
    Reese just advertised for LE certifued lateral hires, closing date was 10/31.
    Imo he went fishing timely for disgruntled PPBs after the Outlaw hire.


    As far as I know, a detective career pathway is one of the only trajectories for a patrol cop (street or river patrol) to advance in rank, pay and “promotion”. That said, agencies utilizing that protocol effectively have a publicly accessible policy and framework with milestones to both insure success and eliminate candidates who may be better off in a different role. I have yet to access the MCSO manual describing this process although any review by the county or board of commissioners references an agency manual. I have no issue with the trajectory pathway itself as long as it possesses the highest standards for modeling and training. Wayyyyy before we became aware of what looks to be in effect, some sort of “now your a detective” magic wand Staton waived over river patrol staff, this issue came to my attention in a case I was responsible for drafting warrants and providing developed evidence directly to the DA’s office. This was for a case where the DA ended up pulling the criminal case from the criminal justice agency of jurisdiction (CJAJ). A member of the DA’s office explained the problem to me (in his opinion and based on his experience) this way- He said that the problem is that the “detective” route is the only way to advance a patrolman’s career (this is almost 100% true in ANY LEA) and very frequently excellent “beat cops” (his words) do not translate to excellent detectives and vice versa. That made perfect sense to me. Not just re the instant case, but it would prove true to me in active future cases, cases profiled and studied going forward, and yes, definitely as demonstrated in Kyron’s case. That said, these are public servant positions with elected leadership roles.

    B

  20. Rose says:

    If a man under 40 in Portland was dead on his lawn I’d think heroin. Did the look similar
    redheaded skyline parent & spouse have a white truck? (Personally I think Kyron was intended.)

  21. Rose says:

    (a woman could be on a dead end in Portland
    just to give herself a fix.)

  22. Rose says:

    can’t read 2016 ECMCT Quick’s
    linkedin (not a member) but says
    “investigator at metro,” isn’t that the transit agency?

  23. Rose says:

    Mult Cty Legal under Malhour pretty much showed its incompetence by appealing mcso v Edwards to the Oregon Supr Crt:
    http://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2017/08/10/oregon-supreme-court-finds-multnomah-county-sheriffs-office-violated-veterans-rights/
    I imagine ins premiums to Mukt Cty covering civil rights violations by mcso are sky high.
    ——-
    OR DOJ will never investigate civil rights violations in mcso under Williams’ leadership, and that was before Trump-Sessions. And Reese knows the DOJ investigation-settlement of PPB by DOJ had no fangs.

  24. Rose says:

    In Morrisey’s pic she looked pretty “managerial” and driven.
    Imo in 2010 O’Donnell had his own kitchen cabinet
    concerned about a little boy to come home to every night.

  25. Rose says:

    to your point Blink. There are 11 MCSO deputies with the “Detective” title in the Gresham awards program, 2016, plus 2 Sgts and 1 Lt with mcso. There were other mcso investigation units, ie cold cases and Special Investigations (iirc drugs). Those ARE an awful lot Detectives for a small agency that is primarily Corrections. Almost like mcso doesn’t know what to do with personnel that need to come off patrols but aren’t a match with Corrections functions. It seems to me those who handle drug networks & labs and gangs are imperative. iirc those are often joint with other agencies.
    ——
    Kyron could’ve been taken in part to redirect MCSO assets from drug investigations and labs that were occurring in early 2010.

  26. Rose says:

    ot Gosh what a beautiful suit. God bless the 2 employees.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2017/11/post_282.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home
    Imagine a Supt hiring his wife as Dir of Special Ed. Wonder where she’s employed now? School Board ought to terminate him for cause if he withheld info resulting in legal liability from them.

  27. Rose says:

    ot new pio is lt shrake, formerly Troutdale.

    Lol, it’s like they read here :)
    https://flashalert.net/id/MCSO/109754

    B

  28. Rose says:

    ot Rainier crazy mentioned above. God help the
    disabled students of Texas. http://www.esc20.net/page/open/48581/0/Laurie%20TEA%20Bio.pdf

  29. Rose says:

    ot that Supt & wife have apparently been running amok since 2008 with a school board that had years of notice the recentlyfiled employee suit was waiting to happen.
    “Also caught up in the Carter-Gilbert matter was Jay Davies, a longtime counselor and administrator who was suspended 17 days with pay after uninviting Carter and his wife, Laurie Kash, to a staff party at Davies’ home. Thursday, Davies asked the board members why they didn’t intervene or get his side during the incident.”
    http://tdn.com/business/local/pointed-questions-at-rainier-recall-meeting/article_16a8d1f7-44b7-5dd4-b871-bf7f2590afa2.html

  30. erose says:

    snip>

    Non Custodial Parent Red Long Hair
    It is unknown whether either parent took the opportunity to visit the school that day, but they were not included on the published list.  While barred legally from removing their child from the school they could not be barred from a publicly announced invitational.  There was no ID checks or sign-in sheets for non-volunteer guests.

    In an unrelated twist, the child’s Father was found deceased in front of a Portland residence in April 2012.   The name of the child and Kyron’s schoolmate, guardians and parents are being intentionally withheld for this article.

    http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/08/06/kyron-horman-exclusive-report-new-suspect-and-botched-investigation-rumors-abound-terri-horman-prepares-to-fight-for-couples-daughter-following-seclusion/#comments

    Jeff D says:
    August 7, 2013 at 2:39 pm
    How uncanny the similar appearance of other parents…the kids that age appear similar…the men all fit similar descriptions…no one can say for sure who or what they saw….

    [Pretty sure this is your comment, Blink...but I'm not sure of the context, did the deceased gentleman resemble KH or did SZ resemble KH?]

    I did not publish the image of the deceased gentleman because it would lead to identification of the child, imo, but he absolutely resembles Kaine. To my knowledge, there is more than one witness who thought they saw Kaine at the school on June 3rd. Was not a close encounter and I have been able to confirm that he was not there. My first reaction was – was he casing the school or did he have the date wrong, etc?

    http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/08/06/kyron-horman-exclusive-report-new-suspect-and-botched-investigation-rumors-abound-terri-horman-prepares-to-fight-for-couples-daughter-following-seclusion/comment-page-1/#comments

  31. erose says:

    On a broader topic, I wonder why (to our knowledge) SZ hasn’t reoffended. I watched “Dahmer on Dahmer” and his first murder was prior to his enlisting in the service. He explained that during his military career it was physically (I think he meant logistically) impossible for him to have murdered anyone, though two of his bunkmates claimed they were sexually assaulted by him, consequently he did not re-start murdering until years after his first. Then he escalated, and by the time he was caught, he was attacking victims about a month apart.

    Blink and All, any thoughts on what SZ is doing now? Was he relatively young, and this was his first victim of this type, and he will not attack again for years? Is he in prison? Did he move? Is he old? What are the possible explanations of how he is completely off the radar?

    I commend you for your “let’s see if backing into this space” will work. Brilliant questions re the possible offender profile. As you provide “Dahmer” as the impetus for your thinking, which, I completely agree that when there is so little information known re Kyron’s abduction and really, his abductor, analyzing the profiles of known similar crimes and/or offender profiles is prudent. Unfortunately that is the problem here- Studying similar crimes when they are not even reported statistically as such (no mandatory UCR reporting for children under 12 except for homicide as one example).

    I wonder if we were to factor these statistics into the discussion?

    “…Strangers are responsible for about one half elementary school abductions, acquaintances such as neighbors, family friends and adult associates are responsible for the rest.”

    David Finkelhor on developmental perspective theory: in summary (by me), Finkelhor posits age and developmental factors change as children age and develop, exposing them to such exploitation and their associated risk assessments vary. You often hear (or read as it were) me discuss a victimology study or assessment. His concepts are critical (in my view) in application to both access and the offender/victim relationship. Finkelhor’s work is contained in my additional references.

    “Investigating Potential Child Abductions Cases” FBI Bulletin 70, 4-2001 (Lord, Boudreux, Lanning)

    https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196465.pdf

    Indicates just shy of 3% annual non-family abductions (includes stereotypical kidnapping) but also notation 95% confidence rate in the statistic regardless of the sample size. Translation- rarer, yes, but among that sample a very high accuracy rate. I would like to take a beat here to state a very significant point- this data is based on dispositive cases. Of the 40 stereotypical abduction cases, 35 were homicides and the other 5 remained missing at the time of the study.

    Investigating Missing Children Cases: A guide for First Responders and Investigators
    Donald F Sprague

    Elementary age children (6-11)
    High Risk- of family, international, Benign episode, lost or injured, stranger abduction
    Moderate Risk- benign episode, non family abduction, infantcide
    Low Risk-runaway or internet abduction

    So a critically important aspect here- taking this stat/finding at face value for strictly risk assessment purposes, can we see that the potential “high risk” scenarios of family and stranger abduction are given the same risk assignment??

    If we factor in the setting- from his own school during a public access event where multiple witnesses observed Terri and Kiara leaving without Kyron, Kyron was seen in his own homeroom following their departure and CCTV captures them and the truck without Kyron- meaning it was physically impossible for Kyron to have left with Terri.

    If we then factor that we have multiple witness accounts to the exchange with Matthews, to include Kyron walking out the door with SZ, Kaine’s public statement that “there is someone we don’t know about, someone we don’t know the identity of” we can assume by some means, Kyron is removed by a non custodial person- falls under stranger or possible acquaintance. I offer the above references for consideration because it allows us to eliminate certain classifications and frankly, examines the LE protocol for the steps for investigating the case from alert-

    From there, we have discussed the very sobering and terrifying statistics:

    The overwhelming majority of stranger abduction cases in the elementary school age setting are sexually motivated.

    In a study of child sexual homicides, it is learned that there is a high degree of sadistic attributes among the offender and the crime, a salient finding that demonstrates this offender has fused sexual gratification with aoulxnger (69%). (Beauregard, Stone, Michaud, Proulx)

    This points also to the relevance and high association with deviant sexual fantasy (Dietz,Hazelwood, Warren).

    75% of sexually motivated child abductions kill their victim within 3 hours. 100% within 24 hours.
    93% of the crime is premeditated
    83% the offender is unknown to the victim
    100% torture the victim
    58% kill via asphyxia
    69% conceal the corpse

    International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology is also a frequent resource in case study and investigation and ANY PERSONNEL tasked with investigating such crimes should be fluent.

    As you can see, I literally have no idea why the facts of this case are not driving the investigation.

    B

  32. erose says:

    Blink, I found the clarity I was looking for.

    Ode says:
    August 7, 2013 at 4:35 pm
    Jeff D. I do believe I have found the possible look alike to Kaine. It makes me think again to the “theft ring” happening around the Skyline area. You made my blink light “light” with the statement “My first reaction was – was he casing the school or did he have the date wrong, etc?” Was Kaine even at the School on June 3rd or was it SZ who may have resembled him. Wasn’t there talk about info from videos or traffic cams wanted for June 3rd as well as the 4th.
    My lovely Ode-
    1. It was I who made the comment about the reaction.
    2. Kaine was definitely not at the school on 6/3/10. I do believe there is some evidence that someone who resembled Kaine in some fashion was there, but no way to know if that is relative to the discussion. Reality is, I followed some dude out of Sam’s club that resembled Kaine slightly the other day.
    3. SZ does NOT resemble Kaine.
    B

    http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/08/06/kyron-horman-exclusive-report-new-suspect-and-botched-investigation-rumors-abound-terri-horman-prepares-to-fight-for-couples-daughter-following-seclusion/comment-page-1/#comments

  33. Rose says:

    Bcz the uneducated & untrained in child abduction/homicide sadistic stranger perpetrators have the case and the parents have higher concerns than finding out their son’s outcome. And bcz since the late 80s Krafve (formerly supv in charge) has been quoted re cases in the press as thinking he’s all that in solving intrafamily homicides.

  34. Rose says:

    I think he’s transient or moved close to 2010,
    and there seem to be missing prepubescent
    children in diverse locales whose cases are unconnected.
    for all we kniw he’s holed up overseas like that Rob G
    publicist living in Thailand.

    Fwiw, again from a statistical perspective of an admittedly very small sample, Sexually motivated offenders who abduct and kill children (with a very high % of elements of sadism in the crime) also have a very high percentage of “working hours”, in most cases multiple jobs simultaneously- described in the literature as “compulsive work.” Yet, at the time of the crime, most are unemployed (90%). I find that significant.

    B

  35. T. Ruth says:

    http://www.bigcountryhomepage.com/news/main-news/report-lake-brownwood-murder-suspect-confessed-at-church-press-conference-at-1000-am/858496880

    Did you guys see this story? ^^ It’s almost unbelievable that they got that composite sketch from DNA alone, don’t you think? Wow, the likeness is almost exact. I wonder if that’s how they came up with a face for the missing Indiana girls.

    I know there’s no DNA involved in Ky’s case, (yet anyway), but what about the little Isabel Celis case? Surely they must have found some DNA there. If they can do this in this case, I wonder if it’s being done there?

    Ode posited the question in the German/Williams murders because of the descriptor in his physical description of eye color= “not blue”. I think she is right on that one as it was in the press also that he was described by a witness (allegedly where the sketch came from) but it also stated “unsure about the hat” and in my mind, if you are close enough to note a persons eye color, you are close enough to know if a newsboy (ish) cap was worn. As we now know LE has confirmed they have DNA in that case, presumptively there is “withheld” evidence and it would not surprise me to learn it includes evidence from a sexual assault.

    Feel free to discard this info as rumor, because I cannot name the source, but I am told there is no DNA in the Celis case pointing to an offender and they recovered no remains to indicate a cause of death- manner of death is homicide by undetermined means. The same MOD designation of Caylee Anthony. As a side note- it is nothing short of miraculous given the conditions and setting that existed in the recovery efforts of little Caylee, that so many of her little bones were recovered- some up to a mile away. I do wish that TPD had organized a similar recovery effort, but as it appeared the few items that were recovered were completely open to the elements. There has been no arrest in that case.
    B

  36. Rose says:

    to blend at Skyline and pass with a teacher, his planning as well, SZ strikes me as educated, maybe tech industry exec. he could be working now in tech in India for example:
    Why Do So Many Indian Children Go Missing? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/19/opinion/missing-children-india.html

  37. Rose says:

    ot https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/republican-sex-trafficking-child-trump-coordinator-716348%3famp=1 I think when SZ is arrested, sadistic child porn will be found in his possession.

    Just to clarify- your link has nothing to do with the profile of a sexual sadist child murderer, nor are you suggesting that particular piece of filth is one.

    There are several linkages that must exist before even the most experienced and educated behavioral profilers can classify an offender- just a reminder that although it is my theory, supported by empirical data, Kyron’s abduction is sexually motivated, it may not be. No way to know that for sure until he is recovered or an offender is known or both.

    B

  38. Rose says:

    I looked at some men who moved last night, just reviewing. Roten moved back to his family nest—the area his foregoers still lived in and in which he was reared. partly gleamed from his grandmother’s and gf’s obits. He has more interests than ducatis & porches, including playing in a community band with whom he toured Cuba. He also has a son who advertised teying to recruit for his own eled jazz band to play community gigs. Perhaps the son was early eled in 2010, and his departure was protective of his son from the Portland environment. They resided in L Oswego, so now I’m thinking the laptop case & contents stolen on 4/20 were from his car at his home. He favors glasses. It was after his arrest for “suspicion” of menacing, a misdemeanor, on 4/19, but nothing came of it, and it could’ve been mere harsh words to a difficult neighbor.

  39. Rose says:

    To echo TRuth, it is strange not a single Portland business, even Intel, contributed a dime early on to a reward. A business woukd’ve taken credit. Seems to come all from mcso. https://www.google.com/amp/www.oregonlive.com/articles/16138017/sheriffs_office_offers_50000_r.amp
    wasn’t the BOA small donor fund rolled into Kaine’s 501c3?

  40. Rose says:

    Rose says:
    November 19, 2017 at 7:11 pm

    “Fwiw, again from a statistical perspective of an admittedly very small sample, Sexually motivated offenders who abduct and kill children (with a very high % of elements of sadism in the crime) also have a very high percentage of “working hours”, in most cases multiple jobs simultaneously- described in the literature as “compulsive work.” Yet, at the time of the crime, most are unemployed (90%). I find that significant.
    B”
    http://blinkoncrime.com/2016/09/21/dr-phil-show-hosts-missing-portland-child-kyron-hormans-step-mom-terri-horman-over-two-episodes/#comments

    My memory is Intel was famous internally for terminating older employees shortly before they qualified to retire, and there had been an employee contraction in Hillsboro not long before the abduction. There was some former employee website with complaints. At the time, I wondered if there had been a resentful former empliyee, perhaps one group Supervisor Kaine participated in. Iirc one preretirement age yet older former Intel employee lived on Sauvie.

    I have never been able to exclude the angle that its possible Kyron’s abduction is tangential to Kaine’s roid activity- one cannot deny the investigation led to Federal charges for others involved with him. That said, if that does turn out to be the case, it was not a sexually motivated crime in any way. MCSO has never excluded this either, according to my sources. They are not actively working to, though.
    B

  41. Rose says:

    “The company reduced its employee base by 20 percent between 2005 and 2009 as part of a broad, extended reorganization. ” https://www.google.com/amp/www.oregonlive.com/articles/16672195/intel_layoffs_by_the_numbers_h.amp

  42. A Texas Grandfather says:

    There are some cases where an abductor kidnapped an older child to be used as a sex slave who did not kill the children. One case involved a guy in St.Louis, Mo.who worked as the manager of a fast food store. This perp drove almost 100 miles South to a rural area of Missouri to abduct a male child and got away with it for five years. He drove back to the area to abduct a second child and did so. He was following a school bus and grabbing the victims after the bus left the area. The second abduction was witnessed by another child who could not get there in time to stop it, but did get the type of vehicle and its license plate.

    LE were able to trace the plate and recover both boys. This case is probably an anomaly to the norm of these types of perps.

    Agreed.
    I cannot emphasize enough the difference in profile of these offenders. Equally horrific, as you point out that offender never intended to kill their victim (among other differences in the active crime phase). A sexually motivated murderer of children via abduction with sadistic traits is only substantively similar in profile to a sexual sadist murderer of adult victims. Wrt to their Axis I and II and paraphilia Dx, they have more traits than not of that of a criminal pedophile offender.
    B

  43. A Texas Grandfather says:

    Rose

    As a musician, it is not difficult to believe the story as normal behavior regarding the multiple groups Mr. Roten played with.

    As a young man of college age, I sang in my church choir, in the chorus of a professional opera company, played in a professional symphony orchestra, played in a brass group as a paid performer at a church, played in the college band and the ROTC band as well as leading it-all at the same time.

    Today, I play in an orchestra, a community band and occasionally a brass quintet. Many of the musicians I play with in those groups also play in two or three more groups. This is in a rural area where well trained musicians are sparse. The community band has musicians from five towns in order to have a working organization. Many of these musicians play multiple instruments as do I.

    O/T
    This is for all the ladies. A warning about buying packaged greens that claim to be washed at the grocery store. Do not eat them or serve them to others unless you thoroughly wash them yourself. Mrs. ATG bought a package of pre-washed spinach that contained a bacteria found in Mexico on fruit and vegetables that will really make you sick.

    Fortunately, she was the only one to eat them. After four days of fighting the bacterial at home we had to take her to the hospital for dehydration correction. The bug causes extreme stomach pains and behaves as if one has an ulcer. It took four weeks to uncover the bacteria and it was not a doctor that gave us a clue. It was my barber who had a similar experience with her husband when he made a trip to Mexico.

  44. Rose says:

    @ATG. I meant to be complimentary of MR who wisely got his similar age (apparently) son out of L Oswego to his CA “homeland,” and son followed in his musical footsteps. Don’t see where he retained any relationship with Kaine tho Kristen originated nearby. Maybe he only originally expressed solicitations due to having a son too, and they were not friends. Glad to hear the Mrs is on the mend. I had that once ((iirc a microscopic parasite) from basil leaves a gourmet deli counter ground into fresh pesto. A father of my kid’s nursery mate did too shopping at same source. Does culture with a xxxx sample. I don’t know that washing leaves is sufficient if infected.

  45. A Texas Grandfather says:

    Intel is not the only company to target older employees for dismissal.
    This behavior occurs all across industry in the USA. The prime driver of this behavior is money. Older workers often have worked many jobs for a company and have skills way beyond those of younger workers. That doesn’t matter to the accountants that are looking for a way to cut costs.

    In technical jobs, it often takes two to four people to replace a highly skilled older employee. This is usually discovered by management after the older worker has departed and the job cannot be done effectively by the new worker. The work is then divided among two or more new people. IMO a very bad decision by the company.

  46. T. Ruth says:

    O/T
    Portland schools’ top lawyer lacks an Oregon law license

    Portland Public Schools’ top lawyer isn’t licensed to practice law in Oregon despite being on staff since June. Now he is quitting the job that requires him to hold that credential.

    Jim Harris resigned after less than six months on the job, Superintendent Guadalupe Guerrero announced Monday.

    The Oregon State Bar informed Harris on Nov. 9 that it is investigating whether he illegally practiced law by serving as the school district’s general counsel without being admitted to practice in Oregon.

    (snipped, more @link)

    What the effing eff? That is a criminal felony. In no way did he “not know” he needed to pass the Oregon bar (or depending on rules, be sworn in) as he was not licensed yet, AND any court appearance he is require to enter on the record via pro hac vice and application for OR bar pending- and even then, most Judges will not recognize him as a counsel of record. I have no doubt this is also against any contract with OPS specifically- if it is not, THEY are then subject to civil remedy for any injury the act caused. Seriously- they allowed him to resign??

    No doubt in my mind this was that “system” once again hoping the public was not downwind of this.
    B

  47. T. Ruth says:

    O/T

    Man who sexually abused multiple children on Indian reservations sentenced to 15 years

    (snipped):

    Selam was arrested on Sept. 15, 2016 in Washington after a federal investigation revealed a long history of sexual abuse, including the abuse of three Native American children – two at Warm Springs and one at the Yakama reservation.

    At the time of his arrest, Selam was a registered sex offender from prior convictions in the Warm Springs Tribal Court for sexually abusing a 5-year-old and attempted sexual abuse of a 10-year-old in the early 1990s, according to court records.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/11/man_who_sexually_abused_multip.html

    So, the judge thinks that 15 years in prison is going to stop this dude, who was already registered as a SO, who’s been getting away with this since the 90′s? WTF? I don’t care that “IF” he does his 15, he’ll be 74. Life in prison! Enjoy the inmates!

  48. T. Ruth says:

    O/T
    Former PPS teacher gets 6 months in jail for abusing 6 girls in 1 day

    http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2017/11/substitute_gym_teacher_former.html

  49. T. Ruth says:

    O/T

    Norman E. Scott

    http://katu.com/news/local/substitute-teacher-arrested-and-accused-of-sex-abuse-at-oregon-city-school

    ************
    http://www.kxl.com/lars-thoughts-think-hollywood-is-bad-check-your-own-backyard/

    A court just found an Oregon city substitute teacher guilty of sexually abusing six little girls and Portland Public schools knew all about him. PPS says Norman Scott “retired” from the district 5 years ago, but put scare quotes around “retired”.

    You see, documents unveiled in court show the district agreed to limit what it could say to potential employers about why Scott “retired,” and Scott agreed to keep quiet too. The documents show Scott was sent down the road after taking an unauthorized field trip, making calls to students, and giving notes to students of a romantic nature. He denied inappropriate contact, and kept his teachers license.

    *************
    From the comments here:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2017/11/sexism_harassment_allegations.html

    Yardbird
    5 days ago

    @r3dd0g Here are those numbers in case anyone is interested:

    SCOTT, NORMAN E.

    RETIREMENT DATE: 07/2012

    TIER ONE : 417 MONEY MATCH

    FINAL MONTHLY SALARY: $5,948

    MONTHLY PERS BENEFIT: $7,510 : 126% OF F.A.S.

    ************
    WTF? My guess is there is much more history to this man.

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