BlinkOnCrime.com Editorial: UVA Violated The Jeanne Clery Act AND Failed To Report Another Sex Crime
Charlottesville, VA– Late Tuesday evening, prompted by questions by the Editor In Chief of blinkoncrime.com about a recent rape which occurred at the DZ sorority on Chancellor Street, The University of Virginia sent out an alert to students.
However, as required of UVA by the Clery Act, the alert was 10 days late. Charlottesville Police recorded a police report of a forcible rape on September 17, 2010.
The Jeanne Clery Act, founded by her parents, Howard and Connie Clery, is a Federal Law applicable to all Higher Learning Institutions that participate in Federal funding assistance which requires mandatory reporting for specified crimes.
Constance and Howard Clery founders of Security ON Campus, Inc. after their 19 year old daughter Jeanne was brutally raped, tortured and murdered while sleeping in her dorm on April 5, 1986.
Fellow Lehigh University co-eds propped 3 different doors open, in violation of security rules, unknowingly allowing her killer access.
The bill which became a Federal law, was based on the fact that 38 different violent offenses occurred at Lehigh U that the student body was never made aware of prior to Clery’s murder. Had they been, it is almost certain not only would the automatic locking doors have been inaccessible, but parents and students combined would have demanded security upgrades to prevent such a heinous event.
Following the email that went to 23,000 students at 11:01 PM September 28, Allen Groves, Dean of Students, and Lt. Melissa Fielding of the University Police Department, held an impromptu press conference Wednesday, as a follow up to the email alert with some additional background information.
PART 2
Time line Breakdown
9–17 1:15am UVA student attacked from behind, raped and beaten on Delta Zeta House, Chancellor Street.
9-17 Noon- Email Equivalent to “Whisper Down the Rotunda” Begins:
Received a third party email, NOT from the victim, indicating a stranger attack had occurred to a sister, as previously reported at blinkoncrime.com, at DZ House on Chancellor St. We forwarded that on to our endless list of associate deans. They called the Sorority president for more information so that we might begin “acting upon it”.
9–18 Additional Sexual Assault Occurs At Fraternity on Madison Lane 3AM
*Unreported To Students To Date*
9–18 A Robbery Occurs During the Course of Above, Same Frat 3AM
*Unreported To Students To Date*
9–19 A Breaking And Entering Occurs, Undisclosed Sorority House, Chancellor St
*Unreported To Students To Date*
9-20 Associate Dean reaches out directly to the victim to ..”get the details of the attack and also to assist the student. No contact made with victim.
9–20 Associate Deans Office receives call from a female student’s Mother that her daughter was nearly sexually assaulted in a pantry at a Fraternity party at approximately midnight, September 18. Add additionally, Groves speaks to a man claiming to be assaulted due to his sexual preference, which would be considered a hate crime, also reportable under the Clery Act. According to Groves and Fielding no police report has been filed. (Editors Note: If this took place at the same “undisclosed frat” as the 3am forcible fondling and robbery incidents– Is this the same perp? So he never fled the scene? So, we have 2 incidents that have Charlottesville PD police reports, one of a sex crime in nature, and an additional attempted sex crime reported directly to administration on 9/20 within a three hour span, at either the same fraternity, or a neighboring one, and it takes 8 days to notify anyone, and they still have not interviewed anyone at the “undisclosed” frat regarding the incidents?
9-21 Internal Meeting about the 9/17 forcible rape but to UVA, they are “unclear” sex assault occurs, still no contact with, or direct information with the victim. ( Editors Note: Groves says Charlottesville PD has still not classified the incident as a sex assault. (Editors Note: This is ludicrous and utter bs. The report specifically states “forcible rape”. I can tell you as an absolute fact, that members of the sorority AS WELL AS the other sororities on Chancellor sent emails back and forth to alert each other which specifically included details of the assault).
9-21 Associate Dean contacts Cville PD. Was told .. Yes, investigating the incident, but would not be in a position to disclose whether there had been an assault or sexual assault also, at that point. We then conferred with the university police to see if there was anything they could tell us so that we could determine whether or not a sex assault occurred in that setting.
9-23 Sorority Meeting held, without the victim, to discuss outreach opportunities.
9-27 First time Associate dean heard directly from the victim in response to the outreach efforts, first time she was in a position to come forward (out of hospital). Victim had to cancel and has rescheduled.
9-28 “.. Certainly by last evening… after conferring with Lt. Fielding and others I felt we had enough information.. Even though to my knowledge Charlottesville Police have not classified this as a sexual assault..” but we believe we had enough, even though it was not our investigation, it was Charlottesville Police responsibility to alert..” (Editors Note: Not a syllable about the email I sent to Ms. Wood, who was unaware of the incident, and very responsive to me. The alert went out at 11:01 PM, 45 minutes after our article regarding same, was published. In this editors opinion, there were no plans whatsoever to alert students until I requested a comment, specifying it was to be included in the piece we were finishing regarding the fact that the rape had not yet been disclosed as an alert, as required by the Clery Act. This was done to balance what was certain to be seen as a scandalous announcement in the wake of Morgan Harrington and Yeardley Love murders, and days after the University’s “Day of Dialogue.” I felt they should certainly be offered an opportunity to address the issue from their perspective, the email was their response to that invitation).
Clearly A Clery Violation… Again
The Articles for reporting within the Clery Act are unambiguous. While I understand the need to alert students and parents with credible and useful information, this is not for UVA officials to decide unilaterally. In fact, it is not for them to ever need to “corroborate” or interview a victim regarding the details of any crime committed against them as identified in the Clery Act for UVA to observe the requirements of them under the Federal law.
In short, they have their own police. They have their “online form”. They have Charlottesville PD police report direct feed.
In 2004, The Board of Education found that UVA violated the Clery Act by requiring a rape victim to sign a confidentiality agreement, but gave them a pass by not imposing sanctions because there was some confusion as to the reporting rules and protocol. UVA was informed they will be assessed a $27,500 sanction fee for any future violations.
As I am certain many of you are over my bloviations about the subject, and in the interest of disclosure, I have personal ties to Lehigh University.
Also in the interest of disclosure, I am embarrassed to say that I was not aware that Ms. Clery’s murder occurred there until researching the Clery Act.
Some Posts from members of your local community for consumption, I will be updating poignant comments.
Blinkoncrime.com Poster Starbucks:
Regarding the “off grounds” issue, I’m sorry but I find University’s excuses in this area ludicrous and totally disingenuous.
The Clery Act, passed in 1990, unambiguously provides that its reporting requirements are not limited to crimes occurring on campus/”Grounds.” The University has had twenty years to figure out how to comply with this law, and yet its officials act as dumbfounded as ever. One would think that UVA is the only school in the nation with a significant portion of its student body living off campus/Grounds, but in close proximity to the University. Of course, this situation is commonplace.
If UVA is having such a difficult time dealing with the “off grounds” issue, I suggest that President Sullivan get in contact with the appropriate officials at her previous institutions. Sullivan spent most of her career at the University of Texas where 80% of its undergraduate student body lives off campus, as opposed to 57% at UVA. She then spent about four years at the University of Michigan where 37% of its undergraduates live off campus. There is no need to reinvent the wheel here; if UVA officials can’t figure out how to report crimes occurring near its campus, they should go study how other universities are dealing with this perplexing problem.
The implication that there is no communication between the Charlottesville Police and the UVA police/campus officials simply stretches the bounds of credulity.
UVA is required by the Clery Act to provide:
(C) A statement of current policies concerning campus law enforcement, including—
(ii) the working relationship of campus security personnel with State and local law enforcement agencies, including whether the institution has agreements with such agencies, such as written memoranda of understanding, for the investigation of alleged criminal offenses; and
(iii) policies which encourage accurate and prompt reporting of all crimes to the campus police and the appropriate law enforcement agencies.
I can’t seem to find UVA’s policies in this area. I challenge the University to prominently publish all of the required Clery Act policy statements on its website.
UVA is on notice:
“This determination finds that the University violated the Clery Act. However, as was noted in our July 2004 Final Determination in another case, there was apparent confusion in the higher education community regarding the intersection of the disclosure requirement under the Clery Act and the strictures of FERPA. For this reason, the Department will not impose any fines or other sanctions at this time. However, UVA is advised that any subsequent violations of the Clery Act will result in a referral for the imposition of a civil penalty up to $27,500 per infraction.”
http://federalstudentaid.ed.gov/datacenter/cleryact/uva/UVAProgramReviewReport11032008.pdf
So please UVA, stop the excuses and clean up your act now.
Madeline Tanner, Elizabeth Morton, contributing editors
Images, Youtube upload by Klaasend
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Your welcome Debbie- Thanks Word Girl-
MSL-Hello- you obviously have alot to say- and I appreciate it when you bring your perspectives into the mix- There is NO DOUBT that you love your town very much, even though you recognize that it has its share of problems.
I truly understand your need to defend it from what you perceive to be attacks-
But listen, lets get real here- you keep talking about how your town has been vilified here at BOC- especially on other threads. I’m sorry- but I DISAGREE-
Have we ALL at certain times expressed our desperation about bringing Morgan’s killer/s to justice? YES-
Have we all at times voiced our concerns on whether or not there has been a problem with LE- YES- but not just nitpicking- bringing real questions to the forefront- such as – was there a huge problem with various jurisdictions/departments that led to HUGE problems in the investigation?
Have we questioned whether or not there was a cover-up or a serious disconnect- YES- but not just spreading rumors- basing them on REAl points- the fire-investigation- the Eppard investigation- ect
Have we questioned whether or not the citizens of Charlottesville are safe? YES- But we have also questioned whether the citizens of all of Virginia are safe- The Fairfax rape- The Pham murder- the drug busts- the child porn busts- ECT ECT-
Have we questioned UVA policies and administration ect? YES-
But just not to cause havoc- but because of REAl issues- with attempted assaults- rapes- JPJ policies- cameras- security-ect- With UVA’s handling of Morgan’s death, memorial-ect- Yeardley love– G Hugely- lacrosse/sports teams handling of problems ect. Drinking- drugs- violence- arrests-
We are talking about your town, your State and UVA not because we are singling it out- but because these issues surround — the Morgan Harrington case- if she had been taken from an arena in Gainesville FLA- at a college, and these crimes and murders/rapes continued there- we would be talking about that State- that town- those policies- that college- that LEA
IMO no one here at BOC has anything against VA C- Ville or UVA- We simply are asking questions and wanting answers- hoping for change- I agree with you that these problems are not VA’s, C-Villes or UVA’s alone- they are everywhere.
MSL- there have been a whole bunch of posters who have come and gone, not just locals- I would hate to think that a local found BOC to be a hostile place- as IME we non-locals have always went out of our way to welcome an insiders opinion,it is invaluable- as well as everyone’s.
We have been kind and courteous to everyone- Do we have disagreements with everyone sure- as we should- we are trying to create a dialog that will hopefully bring about change and justice for the victims.
As for Blink’s articles and our discussions possibly harming innocents- I agree- with you &others- I am not for that- and as Blink has stated -she takes full responsibility for what is posted on her site- and everything that has been posted is done in an effort to help- not harm- she works closely with LE- and I respect her judgment on what is put up and what is not-
But at the same time MSL I truly value posters such as you- that never fail to remind everyone to be cautious when talking about others- because there are real people involved here- I agree and I myself, have been one of the posters that send up flares- when I thought it was needed- I think everyone of BOC’s contributors- those now and those that have come and gone- add so much to every conversation-even those I disagreed strongly with- We balance one another nicely I think
I hope to hear you speaking up to have your voice heard often MSL- just as I hope to hear from J2K- Blackpearl- NYDUDE- and all the rest- we need the balance.
Peace All
George
When LE doesn’t have a clue about the reason for an attack or much information to share with the public, the standard statement is “We believe it is a random act of violence”.
This is the best they can do at the time. The public is fed an acceptable platitude and LE can continue with their work.
It seems that the UVa and Charlottesville Police need to share car patrols on an ongoing basis to prevent the criminal (UVa student or non-UVa student) from crossing the street or yard into other jurisdiction. Why hasn’t this been done for the last several years, or even decades? This business of a dean riding around once a year with the Charlottesville Police for show is risible.
Somebody in authority needs to get eyeball to eyeball with the fraternities and tell them the story. When I was an undergraduate in another southern state university in the 60′s UVa had a reputation as a hard-drinking party school where many of the students, especially fraternity members, developed alcohol dependency problems. Ten years later when I worked in Greensboro, NC, the reputation at UVa was exactly the same. Now we learn that there have been many date rapes hushed up by the UVa administration and totally false information given by the University authorities to the young women who were the victims. Is it going to take legal actions on the part of the young women against the University to get attention and corrective action? It would seem they have very good cases to make.
And no one has really discussed to what extent illegal drugs are a part of the University scene.
The University of Virginia, with its awesome Thomas Jefferson legacy, should be better than this. For starters, name the fraternity involved in the recent assault and put them on probation. Or continue the cover-ups and keep driving toward the cliff, because that is exactly where this is headed.
Mom3.0
Your post to Msl is right on the mark. I personally do not think badly of UVA or Charlottesville. We are about finding some answers for the cases brought forth in this forum. Therefore, the local community and its problems are a part of the solution.
My whole aim in talking about UVA is to make it a better place for our young women to go to school. Virginia is one of our founding states in our history. Why not help them to overcome problems of the magnitude we have found?
If we could transform them into the shining beacon of honesty and safety among the universities of our country maybe they could become the model for other universities.
As one who has lived and worked in the Charlottesville area, and while currently in Florida still have a house there, I agree 100% with MsL. Blink, you say it all in this quote: “but I understand it is different when one lives in the center of it.” Charlottesville IS NOT the center of “it”; it is however the center of where many are focusing their attention.
As MsL posted – “Comment away if you want about UVA, about Charlottesville and the surrounding area, but while doing so, please put just as much effort into looking closer at your own hometown, at your own state, at your own colleges and universities.”
I am afraid I don’t understand that Cville is not in the center of it comment
B
Dear Mr. Allen Groves,
I have no way of knowing whether or not you continue to read this site, but just in case, (or if a friend would pass this message along…,) I just want to THANK YOU for your sincere and gracious response to the concerns raised here at BOC in regard to the recent crimes in the UVA community. I hope you will not be disheartened or discouraged, and will continue to work to raise the standard of excellence in safety for all.
Finally, I feel compelled to mention that my husband fears you will live with the unfortunate moniker “Sweater Vest” for a very long time to come. I surely hope you have the sense of humor to endure that title and FWIW, I personally rather like the vest, and sweater vests in general. You wear it well.
Regardless of what style you may wear, we appreciate your approach to improving this difficult quagmire among LEAs and administrative entities.
Well then, I do owe Mr. Groves and The Messimamm’s a response-
ODE TO SWEATERVEST
(Blink clears throat for dramatic purposes)
It was definitely said in jest, ’bout that sweatervest.
Not at Jcrew, but on you, it looks best.
It is not my intention to pest, I appreciate you being my guest.
If I can help on your quest, please put me to the test.
For I will not rest, until the birds are safe in their nest.
B
Oh my gosh-
Blink’s a poet
And we didnt even know it!!
(needed!)
As a student, I will say I always assumed that keeping things under wraps (as someone involved with the sorority social group, I knew what happened the next day) was a product of the victim wanting to keep things under cover rather than the school. Blink please feel free to email me if you have anything you want clarified from a student’s perspective.
Ya Blink’s a poet as long as the rhyming word ends in EST – LOL (all joshing/kidding done with great affection and respect).
Oh my, I’m impressed!
Lol.
B
MsL,
Blink’s poem got the best of me but I want you to know that I have been thinking about you.
I personally have said on more than one occasion that I, we love your city, that campus. Please go back and look for the past 11 months.
I always say what I mean and mean what I say!
My kid loves your city and UVA, my husband too. I have said so time and again. I don’t want you to feel as if we all are hatin’ on it and you.
We are not.
I understand, mother to mother, that we have problems and that we are just trying our best to raise our children within the confines of a loving family, a loving community, and with the help and guidance of all that we entrust with our kids. No matter their ages.
We all needed to rely on our area schools to keep our kids safe. Why, should UVA receive a pass on this just because our kids are older?
I don’t think they do and I even don’t think they are. But I just want to be sure that they really get it.
UVA and its entire umbrella are full of good, honest, hardworking people that raise their families within your city.
But gone is the day that we all just stay in our 3 block radius.
Life has expanded beyond your valley or my valley.
We all need each other!
I want to think that you just might need me and I…you.
Someday, I just may never know who may step up and safe my kid from the clutches of evil.
Which is why so many of us turned out that November weekend.
My heart breaks for that family. Has since day one. This is why I sit in this woman’s office day after day, month after month.
I COULD have left months ago.
I CHOOSE not to as I have felt that pain of loss.
My family has felt that pain.
I know that you also understand and feel pain. We have talked about it with your uncle’s choice he made. I feel very deeply about this. I’m saddened by the grief you carry.
Sometimes I feel too deeply but I am what I am.
&&&
This site is for Morgan.
But yes, really all victims of crime.
The Cassandra’s, the Brittney’s and so on.
I wish I could have the mind of Blink and her team, to be able to endure helping them all. Sadly, I can’t. Maybe there will come a day that I can. What I do know 1000% is that for the time being, I’m in no way, shape, or form going to leave a girl named Morgan.
I wouldn’t leave her no matter where it happened.
It was just time for me, I guess.
Maybe it seems that we, maybe me(?) are just harping on Charlottesville, Va and that UVA is some type of “Hell on Earth!
I can assure you, I think anything but.
I am local also. No, not in Cville but I am in your fair city weekly!
Know it and love it!
Yes, I did shadow my kid this weekend. There! Your city, your town, your campus. I was outta my mind with fear but never once did I let it get the upper hand. I only did this because of the turn of recent events. No different really than when I decided not to send her to summer camp there.
I was just not sure!
Blink once told me trust my instincts.
That I would know whether something was not right.
That was true.
She also once told me and no, not in private.
Not that close to her, MsL.
I gave her kuddos for helping me heal. She took no credit but instead said that I owed it all to Miss Morgan!
My point is that this site is a good many things to a good many people.
Yes, I know that HE must read here. I sometimes hope that he doesn’t have the attention span for my ramblings and then sometimes I hope that he will just have a moment of clarity.
I don’t know, I hope for the absurb.
But I also know that this site gives reprive from daily pain.
Of being able to vent without judgement and yes, even agree to disagree. I learn here, MsL.
But I will say this, UVA can be on the cutting edge of changing the way universities or learning institutions of any sort, handle these situations. I really want this to happen.
I read that article linked by Judi or Eloise about Liz Seccuro.
So long ago, her initial trauma. That crime against her but yet, here we are so many years later and have girls attacked and murdered and yet, UVA and the powers that be, are still left holding the phone but never making that call.
UVA needed to make that call!
I wrote to Blink one time, that I tell my daughter, ad neausum…
“That I live with the consequences of the choices I make as your mother.”
I mean that but how can I live with the consequences or my choices if I don’t know all of the information?
UVA just needed to give us all the heads up on that recent attack and STAT! Period.
After all, they are not left personally holding that girl or God forbid, the grief that is left if they are taken from us by death.
Remember MsL, you can put a band-aid over a cut but you can never heal a cut so deep as a rape or attack or assault or death.
Not enough band-aids in the world!
(Am I confusing? Sometimes, I wish I could talk face to face.
Maybe I wouldn’t be such a numnut.)
MsL, I remained diligent this weekend concerning my daughter.
No, never a guarantee. I’m sure those parents of the recent attack and rape victims thought the same as I.
That we instilled all the best laid plans of protection in them.
That we taught them everything they should know.
I’m sure that we all tried.
But those young people are only human and make mistakes and guess what? There is some ahole out there watching and waiting for his opportunity, for that mistake.
That is his job.
I want our job and/or that of LE and UVAPD, CPD, or whoever that is, to just do their jobs and help me help protect my kid!
Do I want the murderer of Morgan Harrington caught?
Yes.
Do I want whoever is responsible for those attacks caught?
Yes.
Do I want UVA to become a national, well hell, I’ll say it.
A world leader when it comes to young women’s and men’s safety?
Yes! Yes! Yes!
&&&
Not just some …
Take Back the Night,
Day of Dialouge or an Hour of Power!
But really reach out and change!
MsL, this site is about reaching out. I know that it all may seem to be negative but trust me…it is not. Maybe we need to be a little more positive in our words.
I just know that the only positivity I check in here for is if HE is caught.
I want and NEED for THAT to happen.
A positive reaction for someone’s violent negative action.
I check in here because I want and NEED for that murderer to be accountable. MsL, I have lived a good many places, crime happened in them all. I wish I had the where-with-all to do something.
I don’t know what to do.
I only keep barking at my own kids.
I take my daughter with me everywhere! I talk with her and yes, AT her, until my own ears bleed from my own voice.
But the alternative is too much for me to bear.
Sometimes I want and NEED help with raising her.
I am walking proof that catastrophic events happen everywhere.
My sister was not beaten in Charlottesville, Va.
She was beaten far, far from here.
She was running away from someone and a place far from here.
She died far from here. Same goes for my sister-in-law.
My backyard was NOT Charlottesville and NOT even Virginia.
MsL, if I could say one thing only, it would be that we all should be making a difference with our words and our actions.
I am now trying and I just happen to be in Virginia.
I want UVA to be progressive and to change the way they handle crimes such as assaults, rapes, attacks, and murder. I want them to understand that families are decimated beyond their comprehension.
No matter the healthcare professionals they have on staff to assist.
I almost didn’t write that because after all, it is an institution of higher learning and those professionals in that institution are so skilled, so published, so competent but I want them to understand that they should have learned by now!!!
2010 is the year.
If not, what hope do I have???
What hope does my daughter have???
President Sullivan could be more than a role model for her.
She could actually make this place safer for her and others.
Wow, how I wished I wielded that power.
M, I don’t want to blend anymore, to stick my head in the sand. I want and NEED to be that difference. I found a site that lets me do this. As strange as that may sound and as much negative as I read on this site, I FEEL something positive for the first time in a long time.
Maybe someday I will READ something positive…that HE is caught!
MsL, you have a great city, great schools, and great people. I have met some. We work side by side, with the best your city as to offer but just like Everywhere, USA; you might just have some really bad, evil, sadistic people there.
I’m going to believe that your best and brightest want HIM caught too.
I’m going to believe that your best and brightest will do just that!
I have said that I do not hold it against an entire family for the beatings he bestowed upon my sister. Sure they could have and should have stood up and made a difference.
Their loss in oh, so many ways.
Just as in Morgan’s case, I’m not holding anything against anyone that doesn’t deserve it. Not you, not UVA, not her friends, not LE but only one person! (Maybe more)
HE deserves our wrath and all that Lady Justice can rain down upon him!
It is what is fair and just.
~~~
“We have been kind and courteous to everyone- Do we have disagreements with everyone sure- as we should- we are trying to create a dialog that will hopefully bring about change and justice for the victims.”
Mom3.0, thanks. I just hope that both MsL and I are considered to be members of that dialog. Even Dean Groves! To him, I will also say, you have seen my bad side but there is a good one too.
But I am not perfect.
(A little too emotional at times but never perfect)
MsL, give yourself and your kids a hug this a.m.
I mean that I really do! (((MsL and kids)))
silly I know but it’s all we got on the internet.
thanks, ragdoll
J4M
Now, does anyone have any thoughts on Taylor Gap?
As in the road?
Oh my goodness Blinks a pOet and she didn’t know it !!
Ahhhh but for a bit of a laugh God knows we all need it ‘specially the Harringtons.
it’s not that Morgan is the only one … for me it is that she is the one that “grabbed me” so to speak
somehow she spoke to me and this shiny girl stood out from all the other missing , tortured, murdered young women in the US of A ….don’t know why ,don’t know how, just know she opened my eyes and her parents who I relate to like I relate to their daughter who I only got to meet after she was dead though I prayed and hoped against hope that she was somehow kept alive …that she had run away or been kidnapped and would be rescued I don’t know SOMETHING redeemable for that woman/girl/child/daughter/sister/friend/mentor/teacher/ student/ beauty.
Maybe it was her love of music…or her love of fashion….or the love I see in her eyes..or the sheer beauty of Morgan why should it be a demeaning factor…Morgans breathtaking beauty ..I mean she was born that way a child of God ….let’s get real …beauty attracts, compels , sells… it is not a crime to be beautiful and stylish ..but Morgans’ special kind of beauty shone from within , just look into that girls eyes and swim a while.
I for one would love to advocate for every victim rich or poor plain or gorgeous old or young but like everyone else I have a life with its’ duties and restrictions its’ joys and it burdens.
I find it overwhelming to try and defend everyone or solve each horrible crime ( honestly I don’t know how Blink does it …..kudos to her)
I can only fully concentrate on one case at a time ….for now…maybe in time I will get bigger and wiser and more capable of encompassing more lost souls all at once , but for now I sit fairly and squarely with Morgan Dana Harrington, Dan and Gil and Alex,Harrington, Blink from BOC and my BOC Family.
There you have it for better or worse. This indeed is a learning blog.I am learning heaps one step at a time ..about as much as I can handle. Microcosim and macrocosim ( sorry spelling) I believe that if I fully engage here on Morgans’s site it I will know better how to help in this area in the future for other victims and their families and God forbid if anything should happen to me or mine I will have an online compassionate and resourceful family to turn to for guidance and strength ( as long as we still have access to the internet !!) not that… that is why I am compelled to come back here everyday now for a year since October 16th/17th 2009. Honestly i cannot say why, but it feels bigger than me …even though I adnmit I do need it …I need to read all of your intelligent points of view, your outrage and frustration, your hopes and dreams for justice and safe passage for your children for your planet.
I must admit I feel a bit guilty that I qualify as one of the “upset” people here on this site lately and must apologize if I rant from time to time. No worries mates just bypass read on and think oh there goes Hummingbird flitting about on her soap box again yikes!!
Mom.30 LOVE your last post that goes for you too Texas grandfather getting awfully fond of the lot of you…and now Blinks previously undiscovered poetic talents …well it is just mind boggling really
quite something else ..peace to all Justice for Morgan xoxo
Love the City, love the University, love the locals, hate the crime.
Don;t feel singled out MsL, on this site I personally have discussed the crimes in my neck of the woods. Such as the gruesome Timothy Spencer serial murders, the Beltway Sniper murdering terrorists, the Colonial Parkway murders, (which still terrify me). Also, I have mentioned the RT 29 stalker, and so on. Oh, and we all discussed the gruesome recent Farmville murders and the miscreant who just got a life sentence in those hideous crimes. And also the assaults on young men at U of R and other schools. It is not all about Charlottesville. But that is part of the picture, especially when we get a whiff of sweeping things under the rug by ADM or Dean;s office thinking he has a special purview to re-investigate a sexual assualt, which should be handled in qualified, non-biased law-enforcement.
In fact, it seems to me that while the Dean may very well have had good intentions, any little comment that MAY come out of the mouth of Dean;s office staff in “calling in rape victim”, and “investigating this crime”, which seems to downplay or dispute her version of events, such as the asking if a sex assault really occurred, (why would one ask that if a police report was filed? I ask rhetorically, as Blink first pointed out) —— could that seemingly be viewed as witness tampering?? If yes, I think the Dean’s office is on a very slippery slope as inviting itself into the role of re-investigator of sexual assaults.
I have personally called the Dean of Students at VCU, several years ago, despite not having a child there, to discuss the serious concern I had, and have, as to why Taylor Behl was not in her room, and had been asked to leave by roommate, so roommate could use the room with boyfriend that night. That was they why of Taylor Behl being with murderer, in murderer’s space. I was very concerned with that issue in Taylor’s case. I asked Dean at VCU for policy, and I said how could they not have had a strict policy in place about such things in downtown Richmond, for petes sake.
I regularly email the president of U or R, with concerns I have about safety on that campus.
Also, the Cho deranged murderer at Tech, my child had friends injured in that one, who isn;t concerned about how that went down?
As Fish said, MsL, we are not hatin’ on you. I see the concerned local people in Charlottesville as part of the solution, not the problem.
As concerned parents we must speak up in all of these cases, and I make it my business to let the Administrations hear from me, not just in Charlottesville. I see that as part of my job as a parent, and a Virginia taxpayer, in the case of the public Universities–.
The students cannot usually have the sort of traction in a conversation with administration, which a concerned parent, or a taxpayer, or Blink, can have. BTW, just because I have had one child graduate from another public ivy in VA does not mean I cannot be concerned and considered a “customer” of the UVA system, and other systems.I have more than one child who is well qualified and in state for admittance to UVA, and I am a taxpayer, so my family should be entitled to have a standing in this discussion. Any parent, concerned citizen, or victim’s advocate in the nation should be seen as having standing to discuss the issue. The ‘lets keep it quiet attitude because some of us may not like it’ is part of the problem, in that it gives the students an idea that they don’t need to be concerned about safety, because why should they if it is not a public concern and being discussed?
I do not think it is fair for the locals to regard UVA as only their university, and the people who have children who may go there in the future should not comment on UVA because it may offend the locals. I see the issue that you feel that we are picking on your community, and I am sort of feeling that you think we do not have “standing” to be commenting on this, but should concentrate on our own backyard.
Well, I do that also, but I submit that I have as much standing as a Charlottesville resident to discuss and hate the crime on students at UVA, because I am a parent and I am concerned. I would like to think it would be an option for my son’s consideration,(who btw, as I said is well qualified for admittance), and not ruled out by me, because it is too dangerous. Deceptively dangerous, in that students seem to have the idea that that are always safe, as opposed to VCU, where I see the students as more skilled in an urban setting. And that skill is a life skill which needs to be learned by all, in my opinion.
We are paying taxes to support the University system in this state, and even in the case we would become out of state, I would still feel entitled to discuss these issues, with kids as potential students there.
As a Richmonder, I do not remember feeling upset at all with the comments going on about the Taylor Behl murder, as regards the crime issues of the fan and downtown Richmond. I never thought that I was being picked on. Frankly, I think open and honest and hard hitting discussion of this crime topic statewide is the only way public officials and various university officials in Virginia are going to get real, (some of whom seem to think they are running little fiefdoms with their own police depts, and they have the right to dedide if a victim is being truthful, and they have a right re-investigate crimes).—–NO I was more upset that Taylor was looking for a place to be that night, and was new to Richmond, without perhaps knowing the areas, and the people, and was put in that position of finding a place to be. That I did not like one bit.
ROSS:Charlottesville IS NOT the center of “it”;
…depends on what your definition of “it” is.
I think everyone’s point of view has added to wonderful discussions and to the possibility that the spotlight might shine a bit brighter on protecting our loved ones. The more fired up we all are and the more loopholes we can expose and ultimately get closed; the safer we will all be.
Sorry, my posts still say “K” but it is really me…
Some freaky internet ghost seem to have taken over my machines. Just in case, I will resend. Sorry if it posts twice
I think everyone’s point of view has added to wonderful discussions and to the possibility that the spotlight might shine a bit brighter on protecting our loved ones. The more fired up we all are and the more loopholes we can expose and ultimately get closed; the safer we will all be.
A Texas Grandfather says:
October 3, 2010 at 9:10 pm
George
“When LE doesn’t have a clue about the reason for an attack or much information to share with the public, the standard statement is “We believe it is a random act of violence”.”
Thanks for the reply with regard to the David Metzler/Heidi Child Virginia Tech murders. Blink has inferred that she believes it was directed at Heidi whose father is a Virginia State Police officer. If so, there is a small set of people in Officer’s Child’s caseload who could be responsible. It may be possible that it is be related to a drug case that Office Child was involved in? If Heidi was targeted for murder then someone had to have been watching her and followed her and David from the Virginia Tech campus to the Jefferson National Forest site where they were killed.
I dont think I can say I have enough information to form my opinion as to it being possibly to Det. Child’s work, or from sort of rejected admirer of hers. I feel pretty strongly if they do not provide more info to the public we will never know. That to me, is unacceptable.
B
Excuse the typos in the above:
“It may be possible that Heidi’s murder is related to a drug case that Officer Child was involved in?”
12.fish says:
October 4, 2010 at 12:43 am
Now, does anyone have any thoughts on Taylor Gap?
As in the road?
****************************************************
If they were trying to drive to Blandemar farm without going down 29 South, the best and fastest way (all on back, dark, empty roads) would be to head out 250 West, take Dick Woods Road,which takes you to Taylors Gap, which leads straight to Blandemar.
“I feel pretty strongly if they do not provide more info to the public we will never know. That to me, is unacceptable.
B”
Thanks B. No information on the Childs/Metzler case and no information on Morgan’s murder and the UVa dean does not know the identity of a University-affiliated fraternity house where criminal assault and attempted rape occurred. Completely unacceptable.
I was born at UVA hospital, attended UVA undergrad, and have lived here my entire life. I am raising my children in Charlottesville and never plan on moving away. My teenage daughter is busting her butt every single day, taking honors classes and working harder than any other tennager I know, ALL b/c she wants to go to UVA.
With that said, I am SO thankful that Blink has “landed” in Cville! I am honestly so incredibly grateful that BOC is shining a bright light on our town and on UVA. BOC is helping to make this a safer place to live. I don’t for one single second feel like BOC, or any posters for that mattter, are doing any type of damage to Charlottesville by pointing out crime.
Yes, of course, there is crime and rape and murder, all over our great country, but we should be welcoming help from anyone who wants to merely make this a safer place. I have talked to many Cville residents and many UVA alumni, and we all feel the same way.
Thank you for what amounts to a pat on the collective heads of BOC editors, and contributors.
I cringe when I see anyone taking our reporting on these very important issues personally.
I cannot say that I blame them, but the only way to fix the problem is to first admit it, and then inspire or request action.
Concerned Mom is one of many locals, like MsL, that acknowledge the issue, are willing to work to resolution, and this is about criminals-
If I told you I was going to pull up the paddy wagon to jail, grab the most “collegiate looking”, give them all dinner jackets and The Ralph Lauren Cruise Line collection, then drop them off to live among our most vulnerable of students to see what would happen- would anyone be ok with that?
Point is, if you know you have criminals and crimes, and hush it up, or worse, pretend the problem does not exist, how the hell is that different than doing that?
B
8.UVAstudent says:
October 3, 2010 at 11:13 pm
As a student, I will say I always assumed that keeping things under wraps (as someone involved with the sorority social group, I knew what happened the next day) was a product of the victim wanting to keep things under cover rather than the school. Blink please feel free to email me if you have anything you want clarified from a student’s perspective.
————————
UVAstudent,
Thank you for posting your perspective. First off, if you know any of the victims, please know that we all hope that she/they are doing well and that she/they are receiving support for what she/they have been through.
Since you are involved in the sorority scene, and knew about the incident the next day, how did you and your friends handle it? Did you make a pact with one another to never let your friends leave a party or go somewhere alone now? Did you feel fear for your own safety and talk to other sisters/friends about dangers in your own sorority house? Did you talk to friends in class who were not aware of the incident/incidents so that they would be more cautious?
I ask this because it sounds like the sorority community is pretty close, but what about other females on campus that don’t have that sort of network system, who were not informed. What, if anything was the tone of your house? To spread the word, or keep it within your group of friends?
And, I understand if you don’t want to answer, these are very personal issues that have hit a bit too close to home, but when you heard about the rape/attack, did you feel as though it was someone she/they knew, so you still had a “it wouldn’t happen to me” reaction, or do you find yourself more aware now that this has happened? Do you and your sorority sisters think it was someone who knew her and pursued her (meaning personal, not randam act of opportunity)?
Prayers to the girls who survived these horrible attacks. May they be strong enough to move forward in their lives, and maybe even be support for others who haven’t come forward.
Incidentaly, I had a situation happen to me when I was at Virginia Tech. I was a little sister at a fraternity. The brothers were…well brothers to me, and I trusted each and every one of them with my life. One pledge class though had a guy who was a little “off” to me, but I just figured he was a guys guy, didn’t know how to relate to girls and was definately not someone I would have been interested in…well one night, I was at the frat house sick, and in the living room watching tv by myself. Several (4) of the brothers were upstairs in one of their bedrooms playing cards. This pledge came in and started trying to play with me. I told him I didn’t feel well, but he kept teasing me telling me that I was faking and he tried to tickle me. I kept telling him to stop, but he didn’t listen, and became more forceful. This is a guy I barely said 2 sentences to since I had met him. When it finally clicked, that he wasn’t going to stop, and at this point, he was becoming too physical, I fought my way away from him, and took off running up the stairs to where the brothers were, screaming for help. By the time I got to them, they were down the stairs and the pledge was gone. I told them what happened, and they made sure I was ok. I never saw that pledge again at the house, and then I heard he dropped out. I never reported it to the police or school officials, but I knew that my frat brothers made it clear that he was not welcome back. In hindsite, I was lucky, very lucky. How many situations similar to mine happen on college campuses monthly, weekly, daily….Do I think it was random or had he singled me out because I didn’t really pay attention to him? I really don’t know. I think he did it because I was somewhat familiar to him, since he saw me at parties. I don’t know if the same thing would have happened if it had been another girl, and as I am writing this, I have to ask myself, did he, could he, have done this to someone else. My answer to that is Yes. I think if he tried to get forceful with me, he would try it again. He wasn’t a jilted boyfriend, he was in actually a familiar stranger.
That was…gulp…25 years ago. I am still great friends with my frat brothers and love them for being my protectors…in bars, in class, and in the “safety” of the frat house. I am thankful to have good guys in my life. My college years are now great memories. Every girl on every campus should feel the same way.
Bottom line, girls need to stick together, talk, educate, support one another. Guys need to be heros, not perpetrators. Guys need to let other guys know that to treat a woman disrespectfully is unacceptable. But to not report it to school officials, or LE is in some ways, giving these guys a green light to do it again. If they are not held responsible for their actions, they will probably do it again.
Blink, I am moving this Dakota comment up to the “current” thread if you don’t mind. I don’t think many people are seeing it and I bet they’d like to.
I am also pasting a link to that page:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/21/morgan-harrington-murder-a-security-check-on-security-why-did-it-fail/#comments
______________________________________
13.Dakota says:
October 3, 2010 at 3:02 pm
OK , Warning this is a huge ramble . Remember I have been quiet for months ! SO I am all over the place , no apologies and no care for grammar and the such . I sat on this ramble for a bit of time and decided today to let fly what I wrote the evening after the investigators were here at my home . I kept seeing Blink say she wouldn’t discuss her conversations with VSP as I read back so I wasn’t sure if I should say much either . After some thought this week I feel ok with what I have wrote .
I just want to clarify I am duty bound not to discuss case sensitive conversations with LE on any case, this is not specific to VSP
First let me explain why I stated I should be pissed , then I will let what I rambled yesterday fly . Remember back when my name was being thrown around online and it got to the point it involved my family . When the VSP showes up because people online covering the VSP up with nonsense and it happens to be about ME you have to put yourself in my position as a person as many others have been in through this tragedy .
I admit I could have missed this entirely, but I do not recall seeing your posting name and involving same with your family, but I have never seen that. Do I understand correctly that what your stating above is that the VSP visited you because of what was posted online about you, not by you, and that you feel whatever it was is “nonsense”?
I am very pleased to see people still hanging in there for Morgan ! As I write this I feel I should be angry or frustrated but for some reason after my talk with the VSP investigators today when they showed up at my house ,I am not , it opened my eyes and I got a calming ( strange for me ) I still think the VSP failed to engage the public and Lt. Rader was a little big for his britches when location location location was announced and he didn’t know shit but again FAILED to AGAIN engage the public , I stated to the investigators the public is a very powerful force , especially in a venue of thousands of people and you need to get info fast before people forget , hell , I followed Morgans case day and night for months and still cant remember everything I knew or read at one time or discussed over in c-ville …..have people drinking and having a good time at a concert and you have to jump on those memories FAST before people go back to their lives and forget . . I am almost ashamed to say many months ago I pulled away from Morgans case and separated myself from all the frustration and underhanded things going on at many sites .
I want to be clear that your not alleging anything underhanded has occurred on my site Dakota, if you are, I am going to ask you to be specific in such a statement, as I know that is unequivocally not the case here, but I am willing to listen if your of a differing opinion.
Excuses , I Am sure is what this sounds like but none the less I felt I needed to pull away when my name shows up on websites implicating me in a brutal murder , I also had to consider my family first when I had gave contact info to a couple people including physical address that in the end were just as I seen “in it for the notoriety” , I was stupid and went against everything i preached about Internet safety , even with people i shurley thought we could all trust ….boy was I stupid .Anybody that knows me knows I have a big mouth and I beat on both sides of the story ..
(Who are you referring to? Keeping in mind, if this is something that is your “opinion” and not factual, please skip a response, I do not wish to be a forum for personal grievances)
When the investigators showed up today it seems that I should have just laughed at them , first off I have a severe cold and was sitting on the porch feeling like crap . I enticed the VSP many times months and months ago because peoples names being thrown around was just ludicrous and some were just wasting the VSP time with things that seemed far fetched and I was guilty of using names in the beginning also and I too had to learn . Having it happen to me put a different spin on the whole mess and I learned my lesson .
After the fact today I reflected on what was said with the investigators and certainly had my ears keen to the way the one investigator structured his questions/statements . I almost got a chuckle when one said something and motioned his hands like ” now don’t go digging into that ” as he brought something up of very much of interest to me ….. I remember thinking in my head when he said it, I was like YEAH RIGHT , telling me not to dig into that is like telling a long tailed cat not to be nervous in a room full of rocking chairs .
Are you able to say what you were told not to go digging into or does that fall under what you agreed not to discuss?
Now I made an agreement with the investigators that I will keep some things to myself and they agreed to keep one thing I told them to themselves . Now to find ME Dakota not being a jackass and telling the investigators to take a hike even surprised me after my name was run through the mud , I always tell it like it is ( as I perceive it )and I was pleased with the talk . Something changed when the one investigator stated he was investigating the death of Morgan Harrington when he walked up .
By that do you mean you were engaged in a conversation not pertaining to Morgan’s case and then another investigator arrived to discuss Morgan’s case?
I had kinda put Morgans tragic death away in the back of my mind and steered clear, I still thought about Morgan and the Harrington’s and Alex now and then but didn’t focus on the situation like I used to . After today it s all fresh and REAL again , there was no room to not just stop and think DAMN, this is serious , this was someones daughter and there is no room for Dakotas frustration with the NEW VA POLICE state (what does that mean?) to come into play or to raise hell about the VSP or people plastering peoples names on websites including mine , This was about Morgan . I am wondering what i may have said online or pointed to online they ae trying to figure out and sparked the interest . What really frustrates me is I had hours and hours and hours of research , pictures and of course thousands of screen shots that somewhat went down the tubes with a hard drive failure a few weeks back , of course I never back anything up , never lost a drive uggggg. I don’t think its a total loss , I kept the hard drive ( of course now moved to a secure location until I can decide if its worth getting someone to pull info off of it ($100 Geek Squad) and look back at everything . , now I am wondering what the hell they were looking for that was said . Hell I said so much I don’t know what all I said . I am trying to think of conversations in c-ville on the downtown mall when this tragedy was fresh and people were talking . I am trying to remember what all Mizz Jill said over on Craigslist . What was said at the Hook , FindMorgan.com and take a few things i found very interesting that was said today and put it together . Of course as soon as they left I wrote down almost word for word things that were fresh in my head by the way they were answered or brought across by the investigator. I think I have stated before I posses only one talent , i can read people to their soul given enough time and conversation .
Can you expand on that by way of example? I don’t want to form a conclusion or opinion on it until I understand it.
I am quick to own up as I did today and say ……….why yes I did say Lt. Rader needs to grow a set of nuts and there is a ass-load of ass covering going on starting with JPJA, VSP then on down the line . I reiterated that again today to the investigators and I clearly have been vocal about it online from almost the beginning . Why am I saying all this , after they left I started reading here at Blinks and seen FM was back up , It will take me a couple days to read way back and catch up but one thing I seen was people saying nothing is happening with the investigation and so fourth , understood, I have been there , I was there with frustration and sadly just had to walk away . After today I felt a breath of fresh air . Wanted to be pissed off I would even have to entertain the investigators , and a slight tingle of being almost offended at first , I mean its not everyday your answering question about the brutal murder of a young girl in our community. I felt a relief .A relief they are still digging , still looking and even with DNA they are checking all avenues ALL people . I felt a relief I needed to share with those of you that didn’t belly up like me and put Morgan away to say guys and gals , they are looking ; its almost the year mark as I refuse to say anniversary as were not celebrating anything . We are just reaching a milestone of a horrible event .Almost at a year the big “BOYS” , WERE SITTING ON MY PORCH in the middle of nowhere and those men were a long way from home base , They are pounding the pavement and following every lead . I found some comfort with this and I hope others do also . I still say VSP dropped the ball and failed to engage the public where the answers needed were at the JPJA that evening , as I stated to the investigators we can’t turn back time .
( what answers specifically are you referring to?)
I need to catch up reading because I don’t have a clue what all has been posted for months but you can bet your ass a few things I heard or found interesting the way they were presented/stated today will be searched for . I still stand behind my many times saying JPJA is flat out covering their ass from day 1 and I am on record from the first few weeks the Harrington’s would change their position on how JPJA , VSP seemed in the beginning and what the Harringtons want to know NOW .
ONE huge lie JPJA told I completely forgot to tell the investigators that is a complete damn lie ,I was reminded by a friend who showed up when the VSP were here and happen to be the person at JPJA with me about 3 years ago ; the no return policy JPJA stated they use is complete bullshit . I screamed back in the beginning I know for a fact myself and a friend walked out of a show at JPJA through the main entrance and returned without the slightest bit of difficulty right through the main entrance NOT A QUESTION ASK ! The minute the investigators left the very person with me at the JPJA was on the porch squawking ………why didn’t they want to talk to me ….did you tell them about us re entering JPJA , I was like no I forgot .
Dakota, just curious what show were you at 3 years ago at JPJ? I have seen you post JPJ is stonewalling, and you feel the answers to her case are “there”- seems odd to me with your knowledge of the arena that would not have come up in your rather empassioned opinion that is the case, to neglect to mention you had a different experience there than what is being described.
Ah but the really reassuring thing I want to put out there . During part of the conversation one of the investigators spoke clearly in screen names and things he had seen and read online , stated they ARE reading and I found this really GREAT . Unfortunately yes he spouted off where I had said Lt Rader needed to grow a set of nuts . Hopefully he missed the day I said Lt Rader couldn’t find his ass with both hands ! But anyway I take great comfort when I hear screen names and realized the investigator WAS in the loop and they were reading ! I hope many see this and get that same feeling of comfort . Not where we need to be with Morgans case but at least they are still digging as many of you are and have been .
I am not a fan of such negative criticism of a professional, but you are entitled to your opinion.
Looks like Dr Harrington seen the mess in the back ground at FM as I don’t see some regular faces on that site , they needed to be gone long ago but I tried to help with that with a learning exp even if it was at my cost to my name …..there were some wolves in sheep’s clothing looking for the limelight rather than working on the task at hand . It happens , people find themselves in a position where people trust and depend on them in the online world and fall victim to the childish high school behavior . I felt a couple people at FM possibly had little social interaction in their (REAL) life and all of a sudden they were in the spotlight ONLINE and it went to their head , they didn’t know how to handle the attention or the serious situation at hand .
I cannot disagree this happened to some, it is unfortunate, yes.
What they presented to you folks publicly is not what they stood for in the back ground where nobody could see their actions …( O you have no idea)…some cared on the surface and attempted to fit in and in the background had no interest in trying to bring calm to the very site dedicated to bringing justice to Morgan and her family . I hope all that is gone now as i dwell back into this injustice and hope to help somehow someday .
I will read for a couple days and then decide what I m going to say and not say about what i feel should be said to jog memories of those who followed closely . Most know I have said it before I am a man of my word so when the investigators read this don’t let your hair stand up on your neck, I will NOT take even the slightest chance of jeopardizing catching the SOB who did this to Morgan, her family and this community .Now I will give my opinion of how today went and how I think if I were a suspect what I would have done different on the end of VSP today . I will also go into detail a bit of how I felt there was some true sincerity from the tone and language used by the investigators ….I think i had said something to them about nothing happening in the investigation or something to that affect and I really got the vibe from the reply of almost “damn man were trying , were looking… almost a look of disappointment as in that look away of “we wish we had this bastard ” . I think I needed that vibe I got , it certainly gave me some reassurance in the system . I will admit at about the time I said the hell with it I had lost any hope
there would be any justice for Morgan or her family .
So I need to start over , Sounds cliche but its true , I need to start from the beginning and try to remember what all has been said over the past year , try to remember and tie together some things said online and look at where you people have been over the last few months .
I am a huge defender of civil rights , I have certainly written onine over the years about the new VA police state …..When those investigators showed up today I Had to stop and think , this is real , I never thought it wasn’t but it was just different today ……..Instead of being pissed off or offended i found a great comfort in knowing they are still chasing down the bastard that Brutally murdered Morgan .
So as i run a whirlwind of things through my mind I will ponder my next move and i hope this sparks some interest knowing the hunt is still on even if most have felt nothing is happening .
Its time to take a long hard look at the catalyst inside the JPJA , that Morgan ended up outside the arena to fend for herself . I heard for long enough that basically nothing was important if it involved JPJA , I say bullshit .its important ! I don’t care how much power UVA has to make things go away , what happened in that ARENA is important and its time to come up off the damn surveillance video and protect people ,not empires . We need to back up , Why did Morgan end up outside and who was responsible for helping her get there ! The police cannot identify everyone in surveillance video or in the area Morgan may have been captured on tape , maybe one of the thousands in the general public that was there CAN.
SO while I read back ….. somebody give me some incite at where the general consensus is the past few months of WHY and HOW did Morgan end up outside of the JPJA ?
In my opinion, I believe Morgan tripped on the step on the way to the bathroom, and was feeling ill and simply needed some air. I think the mystery is what happened to her ticket that she could not get back in. Everything else is accounted for, but the ticket. She certainly could have purchased another. She did not. In my mind, something happens to start the events resulting in her murder as she is trying to get back in, and gets the call from Sarah. I believe the perp was in earshot and heard it all.
How do I feel after a week of thought of what was discussed with the VSP investigators .
1. Its time to HAMMER WHY Morgan left JPJA and WHO escorted her out .
Dakota- what makes you think anyone escorted her out? To my knowledge, the only folks that could “escort” her out are security. Is that what your suggesting?
2. I remember hearing the Harrington’s were seeking access to video from JPJA. Have they had access ?If not, WHY ?
In your earlier statement above, you state that LE cannot confirm all ID’s from video, and to my knowledge, there is no video of Morgan on JPJ security reels. Are you suggesting that information is inacurrate?
3. I stand behind my statement of many months ago and again to the investigators that access to the crime scene need not be by tractor or 4×4 and I will again challenge the owner of the farm to prove that beyond a doubt that I can put a small front wheel drive car spot on to ground zero Morgan was found . Lets say a car similar to Morgans Honda Civic .
I do not wish to read into this, so I will just ask, are you suggesting Morgan’s car was used in some way, or just suggesting any smaller front whell drive vehicle could access where she was found? My next question would be- if you feel that strongly about that, you must have an opinion as to how such a vehicle accessed the property and site in the first place, right?
4. Just because DNA was discovered does not rule out anyone , I personally believe the DNA found was a diversion and for the life of me I cannot figure out how or why or by WHO ? Do not read into this as it is just my gut feeling that the DNA discovery is for a lack of better words, USELESS ! WAS DNA from Sketch found on Morgans shirt but not at the discovery site of Morgan , or vice verse ? If so ,how is that possible and who had access to DNA on file from 2005 if I remember correctly from the last documented attack ?
Why would you consider the DNA link to sketch useless?
5. Has COD been released ? If so I missed it .
Has not.
6. What leads the Harrington’s to believe the person responsible for Morgans death visited frequently to the websites dedicated to justice for Morgan ?
In no conversation I have ever had with them did they state this, what makes you think that?
I hope so because in the end with enough time there would be a very clear trail back to the SOB or at least a good direction to go in . . I feel at most the perp may have watched the news and maybe read a few articles online but I do not feel in any way unless he was a complete fool interacted ONLINE . For a person to rip Morgan off the grounds of JPJA at a post 911 facility that is state of the art amongst thousands of people does not give me the feeling of a fool .
Again, not wanting to put words in your mouth, by that do you mean you do not buy the hitchhiking on the bridge theory, and that you believe she was abducted against her will from JPJ?
You would have to be a complete dumb ass to interact online after such a crime . The person responsible for Morgans horrific death as it stands with me was far from a fool . The dumb criminals are easy to catch , we are 15 days from a year this monster still roams among thousands of students and children UNDETECTED to again grab another victim. What is his stress er ? Does he like anniversaries such as the OCT 17th we have coming up ?
7. I stated I was please the investigators were digging . I am of the opinion there is NO arrest imminent ; not even close ! If the Harringtons believed the perp is interacting online they would have never closed down that trap for anything ! I belive the Harrington’s need a break from the online happenings , no matter how hard they tried with FM.com the wolves couldn’t understand the important task at hand. If you believe a perp is interacting online there is not a chance in HELL you would shut down there venue !
8. Anyone saving online info , please back it up and store it safely . As Morgans case proves to be a new road for online activity ; anyone could have some important info that may need be looked at in the end . I say this because one disappointment I had with the investigators was the lack of access to what happened online from the beginning .
Can you clarify if you mean that LE has the ability to access, or did you ask them what your options would be to restore data?
Lets just say I almost fell in the floor when it was explained to me how info was stored and captured from online activity . Lets just say stone ages ! We are better than what was explained to me and the investigators need better tools to research online activity in a case such as Morgans. Ditch the huge expensive gas guzzling SUV’s to drive all the way to my house and get some quality tools to research and capture online activity after such a horrific crime .
ok enough ramble as I continue to try and catch up .
Dakota
Dakota- my responses, follow up questions in bold.
Thanks for your patience, I felt since you took the time to update us, and give your perspective, I wanted to address it thoroughly.
Thanks
B
Since you are involved in the sorority scene, and knew about the incident the next day, how did you and your friends handle it? Did you make a pact with one another to never let your friends leave a party or go somewhere alone now? Did you feel fear for your own safety and talk to other sisters/friends about dangers in your own sorority house? Did you talk to friends in class who were not aware of the incident/incidents so that they would be more cautious? **I had a hard time balancing respect for the victim’s privacy and wanting to give friends the heads up. I did tell my little sister who is in her first year and her roomate. I would say that we are all making a much more concerned effort to travel in groups- leaving one bar where a couple friends are to walk a block away used to be a non-issue because rthe corner is well lit and well populated during those hours, but now it’s something we think about. I have made sure that everyone has “my” cab driver’s phone number programmed into their contacts since he works late and is a good guy and is always in the corner area during bar hours. Any other girls who weren’t family or close to it, I told them that some crimes had occurred recently right on the corner, and that I was not at liberty to discuss details, but reminded them that it is hugely important to never be walking alone.
I ask this because it sounds like the sorority community is pretty close, but what about other females on campus that don’t have that sort of network system, who were not informed. What, if anything was the tone of your house? To spread the word, or keep it within your group of friends? **The tone was close to what I described above- all of us were thinking about how awful it would be to have been a victim of a violent rape and not be in control of who knows which details, because it very well could have been most of us. Honestly, had something like that happened to me, I am not sure I would want the dean giving everyone details the next day or even the day after, until I had time to personally deal with it without worrying about dealing with other people’s reactions. On the other hand, all of us wanted to tell everyone so they were reminded that safety needs to be a top priority. The combination ended up being to only tell people who were important enough to you that you felt OK violating someone’s privacy like that. Or at least that is how I felt and what I sensed.
And, I understand if you don’t want to answer, these are very personal issues that have hit a bit too close to home, but when you heard about the rape/attack, did you feel as though it was someone she/they knew, so you still had a “it wouldn’t happen to me” reaction, or do you find yourself more aware now that this has happened? Do you and your sorority sisters think it was someone who knew her and pursued her (meaning personal, not randam act of opportunity)? **No, I felt like it was a random act of violence, someone picking off a straggler. I would say everyone is more aware now, especially with all of the robberies that have happened recently. The police department emails us in a timely manner after most crimes that have been committed, so the other muggings we all knew about quickly. It reminds me sort of how everyone felt after Yeardley was killed- you get reminded that things you convince yourself are pretty safe (boyfriend who hasn’t ever REALLY hurt someone, just walking a couple blocks) aren’t.
I think those are excellent questions “Uva Student”, and for readers who know me well, I would not allow you to call yourself that on here if I could not verify it.
However, One thing I need to weigh in on, is “your cab guy” who is a good guy. Unless you have run his license down with his employer, you have no idea who he is, or what he may or may not have done in his tenure, so I do not recommend anyone accepting a reference like that without checking it.
I do agree that once that has been accomplished, it is ok to share your experience with the cabbie with others, as long as you remind them, DO NOT EVER TRAVEL ALONE.
Not by bus, cab, trolley, monorail, doubledecker, skylift, parking elevator, innertube, forklift or dorito.
You get the gist. I promise you, in MOST CASES, the way to eliminate being a victim, is to eliminate the opportunity.
B
Oh my goodness acho-
Just when I was going to get my butt moving to vacuum.
I heart you E, seriously.
I can’t tell you how many times I/we see a post of yours and either smile or go..Dang Eloise..
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your commitment and contributions.
B
oh my goodness is right…
Texas Grand Father, thank you for weighing in.
HummingBird, your posts always seem to give me courage to continue posting my thoughts- Thank you.
Fish- Yes, of course you and MSL are included in that dialog- I thought I was clear- I think everyone- no matter what or when they posted adds something to the conversation and to BOC.
I just want to be clear- I have learned a great deal about VA, Charlottesville and UVA., from reading others posts and from researching.
Everything I have learned is not bad or negative. For example, I learned that VA’s beauty is breathtaking- that it is a state with much history and it reveals in teaching that history to its residents and to visitors.
There is so much to do in Va around this time of year especially- Ghost walks and history tours and hayrides and apple picking tours ect. Then there are the tours of historic houses and buildings, places,that go on through out the year.
Charlottesville’s music scene is remarkable- or was(not sure if the closing of venues as dampened it) VA seems to be full of very talented musicians and artists of all types. Without reading Morgan’s threads, I would not have known just how amazing your town and your state were.
For all the “negativity” that has been talked about surrounding UVA, I have come away knowing lots of positives. Such as, it is an exceptional university, with a great deal to offer any student. It has a lovely campus, and many people who are dedicated to making it even better. Afterall, Observer, has went out of her way to try and show us just how dedicated some are- and now with Dean Casteen’s posting, I realize that there are others who are trying to work for change, and are willing to extend their hands out-
How many other schools could boast the same?
acho, thanks for bringing that post over, I read it on the other thread- and I am still thinking about it-
I am not sure what to think, just yet, except to say- Thanks to Dakota for returning to post your thoughts- and thanks to Blink for taking the extra time to weigh in- with questions and concerns. I hope Dakota will return to continue the conversation.
Special thanks to UVAstudent for giving us her perspective- and thanks to In Memory of Gini for reaching out to ask the questions.-
I am not a very good researcher so I have been able to learn very little about the other 2 individuals involved with Mr. Arnold in the killing of Mr. Hassan. I would be interested to know, are either of the two still in Charlottesville or even in the state of Virginia? I know the male did not serve time, what about the female. They were older than Mr. Arnold, so would be at least in their mid-30s by now. I hope LE has questioned him as to whether he has remained in touch with these individuals.
oops meant to write Dean Grove’s posting- sorry Mr. Groves.
Lol Blink that’s very kind.
Dakota -if you are out there, I still need a refresher on how you came to be on BOC. And were you at JPJA that night?
Seems like VSP thought you might be able to shed some light on some issues. Maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get someone to look at your hard drive, if you need that to refresh your memory right?
@ In Memory of Gini
Thanks for your posting about good fraternity brothers. Too often the frat boy thing gets tossed around and people blame entire organization. That’s how I read George’s comment above — that members of the house where something terrible occurred should all be punished for something that hasn’t even been proven (or even argued, by any credible person) to have been committed by a member.
It could be a visitor/guest — like Hugeley at DKE — or even trespasser.
Dakota I admire your guts and the way you dared speak the truth, I found your early post some time ago, wondered you were the real one! Earlier on the FM site I compiled a post of ‘witnesses’ that could attest to that and maybe that got VSP interest.
quote:
I screamed back in the beginning I know for a fact myself and a friend walked out of a show at JPJA through the main entrance and returned without the slightest bit of difficulty right through the main entrance NOT A QUESTION ASK !
At the time you even mentioned you were willing to testify to that.
I know for sure more people know more and they are as guiltless as you are but afraid of their privacy (rightly so). Still as you seem convinced of LE s full intention to catch these @&#* its really worth the inconvience to help the investigation like you did. Even after all this time, I wish you all the best and think you did a good thing even at the risk of offline safety.
thank you
J4M
Acho, Eloise, First-time…I found that entire rambling, if I am referring to the same thing as you are, to be quite interesting. It felt, to me, almost like a teaser or bait. The tone and personality shifting back & forth, from concerned to something resembling a snide-type manner. What is your take?
Katie-
Well right after this was posted, I had someone come to the house and got all distracted with my initial thinking. Since Dakota posted last time, I feel like I was missing something. I do need to go back in time and read.
First, it made we wonder what, if anything Blink needed to edit out. Because the stream of conversation was kinda all over, no offense D.
But obviously, I want to know what was so interesting that VSP ‘went all the way’ to his house to speak to himabout? Did that even get stated?
I feel a little reluctant to go into detail on my thoughts, b/c I dont know what the deal is, you know?
I apolly. That is an excellent point.
I edited absolutely nothing of Dakota’s and only inserted my questions.
It is completely as it was posted but with my questions interjected in bold after reading.
B
Oh and who is MizzJill?
rvrb says:
October 4, 2010 at 5:20 pm
@ In Memory of Gini
“That’s how I read George’s comment above — that members of the house where something terrible occurred should all be punished for something that hasn’t even been proven (or even argued, by any credible person) to have been committed by a member.”
The point is that is their house and, to a degree, their responsibility. Time to grow up. The young lady was a guest in their house. A period on probation would be a speed bump, not punishment. Punishment is what the young lady who posted here who was gang-raped in a UVa fraternity house went through. The University needs to send a message of change. By hiding the name of the fraternity and doing nothing the University is also sending a message. The message is “Party On!”
FYI
http://m.wcco.com/site?t=kXJ.Nhk0ilEr9zutfO-E1Q&sid=wcco
Other thoughts-
per Blink:
In my opinion, I believe Morgan tripped on the step on the way to the bathroom, and was feeling ill and simply needed some air. I think the mystery is what happened to her ticket that she could not get back in. Everything else is accounted for, but the ticket. She certainly could have purchased another. She did not. In my mind, something happens to start the events resulting in her murder as she is trying to get back in, and gets the call from Sarah. I believe the perp was in earshot and heard it all.
******
Well, I kind of thought having her ticket wasn’t going to get her back in anyway. But…….., if that is not necessarily the case, did someone who ‘helped’ her after her fall pick the ticket up? How do we know it didnt just get lost during that time? When B makes such a suggestion, it causes me pause. So, if we eliminate the lost ticket, we have the taken ticket.
Something else to consider in light of Dakota’s concern over JPJA. If we know H&H assists them w/ security detail, do they have access to their video system? That could be a very interesting angle. My husband & I were looking at that, and who had contracts to do whatever for that very reason.
And, I admit I have always been suspicious that she was escourted or removed from the arena. I believe Blink when she says no, but I have a funny feeling about that, especially in light of the secuirty issues.
Holy S**t Blink….http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj7-story-cook-100410,0,7304129.story
How does one have web access in a tent? Food for thought.
Sigh.
B
Spent some time today researching the changes to the Clery Act. The new changes include any property off campus that houses a function recognized by the school. This would include all fraternity and sorority houses no matter if they were on adjacent property or not. This could also include a resturant or cafeteria that furnished meals to students, under contract to the school, that is located on private property.
The other new change effective July 1, 2010 is the requirement to have a system wide test each year where a contrived event by the university is used to perform all the functions required by the act.
There is also a requirement that local LE have access to the university information and the university have similar access to LE records. All reporting is to be within 48 hours and this means notification to the students and local LE.
Missing students are to be reported within 24 hours and this includes contacting all LE agencies in the area.
This to me is way too long. The quicker they can respond the better.
Another new reporting requirement is fire safety.
This act has a lot of good parts, but in my opinion, leaves room for much improvement.
Mom3.0
If you have never been in this area in the fall, traveled the roads and walked the area in places, you have missed some beautiful sights.
October is a great time with the trees turning.
Also, I wrote the above because the bottom line is that there is an enormous lack of communication between
•Local Police jurisdictions
•local police jurisdictions and UVA
•UVA & students/public
•investigators and public
In result:
•Endangered citizens
•rapists/murderers roaming the streets waiting to strike again
•fear
•policemen putting their lives on the line, dedicating their lives to protecting us but efforts being thwarted by policies, decisions & mistakes that occur repeatedly, that they have no control over.
You do what u can with what you are given. For the most part I wholeheartedly believe our law enforcerd do. Thus another reason change is imperative.
——
In a nut shell…the bullet points above must change. I think we should create one solid, enormous voice with
A concise message directed at others who can join us to demand change and to the handful of ppl who have the power to make it.
Does any of this make sense?
I’m just one of those ppl who sits and determines what actions I can take to affect an issue that arises. This is all I got. If I want something to happen, by dang, im gonna strategize and do whatever I can to make it happen. Sparking my talent for painting earrings with hot pink nail polish when I had no $ and had my heart set on wearing a pair. If there’s a will there’s a way.
End of rant
I’m a pepper.
Wouldn’t like to be a Pepper too?
Great post.
B
Blink
Your poem is outstanding. The title had me laughing hard, then the stanza says exactly who you are as a person and how you will stay the course until the job is done.
lol.
Sweatervest, as I respectfully refer to Dean Groves, has his batphone ringing loudly under the cake server I understand. He has my full support in the interests of progress.
B
Mitchell says:
October 4, 2010 at 7:50 pm
Holy S**t Blink….http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj7-story-cook-100410,0,7304129.story
How does one have web access in a tent? Food for thought.
Sigh.
B
&&&&&&
Probably hijacking wi-fi from the church
How does one have web access in a tent? Food for thought.
Sigh.
B
Per the linked article: “Investigators believe Cook picked this spot because it’s close to at least three fast food restaurants that offer free wireless internet.”
Thanks Ross, was wondering why you did not respond to the comment disagreeing with your “remote” assessment that C-ville was not “center of it”?
B
Texas Grandfather-I posted earlier that I was backing out of the discussion and to some degree, I am, but I do want to say that I read UVA’s Clery Act policy yesterday and one section was about missing students and the 24 hours reporting period. Struck me then and I agree wholeheartedly with you, 24 hours is too long when a student goes missing. I guess in some ways I can understand, students party long and hard and just do not bother to go home, they sleep where they fall so to say. They could decide to go home overnight without telling friends, they can even be as irresponsible as the young woman attending the Phish concert and decide to “follow the band.” I think each report should be considered individually and not be based solely on a paper policy. I don’t know the actual statistics, but I would guess that most kidnapping victims who are subsequently killed, die long before they are officially considered missing.
I have been reading in pondering today.
Eloise – it was like you read my mind
If H&H was the security company working the venue that night, and IF someone working for H&H is responsible, couldn’t he then have “escorted” her out, using having a camera and/or underage drinking as an excuse (thus taking camera, which could be the reason the camera hasn’t been found)? If so, what a perfect opportunity to take her ticket and possibly the reason why she didn’t buy a new one to try and get back in! And, that would explain why she was angry when she couldn’t get back in. He also could have easily been keeping an eye on her after that, and even is she seen him, wouldn’t she just think he was watching her for reasons a security office should, not for reasons of ill-intent? Maybe that is why she moved further away from the arena? Who would think anything of a security guard lurking? And, then, being that he was working for the firm handling the security, would he then have access to the tapes to make all footage of Morgan “disappear”? I mean, really, isn’t it odd that there is NO footage of Morgan?
This actually makes sense!
This is a test to see if my last post took – had an internet glitch happen right when I hit submit