New Leads Brings New Life To Cold Case: The Murder of Virginia Tech Students Heidi Childs and David Metzler
“WE HAVE DNA EVIDENCE. WE ARE ACTIVELY AND AGGRESSIVELY PURSUING YOU, WE WILL
NOT REST UNTIL YOU ARE APPREHENDED.“
On August 26, 2009, High School sweethearts turned co-ed romantics and Virginia Tech freshmen Heidi Childs and David Metzler were brutally murdered in Montgomery County Virginia between the hours of 8:25 and 10 PM at Caldwell Fields in Jefferson National Forest.
Heidi Childs is the daughter of retired Virginia State Police veteran helicopter pilot Don Childs.
Investigators have not revealed how they have determined this window of time, but sources inside the investigation have confirmed to www.blinkoncrime.com that it is based on cell phone records which have not been released.
David was shot through the driver side window and Heidi was gunned down as she immediately fled the vehicle. For the most part, that is about as much information released to date.
Further information regarding the assault to Ms. Childs is being withheld for investigative purposes.
Until today, investigators from the Montgomery County Sheriff’s Office have been tight-lipped as to any evidence collected from the scene, or any possible motive. Sheriff Tommy Whitt was all business this afternoon, and took no question from the media.
Sheriff Whitt addressed the media with an update and newly released information he hopes will have the tip lines ringing off the hook. The complete information can be read here.
Courtesy of Roanoke.com
The Gun That Won The West- And Killed Innocent Kids
Sheriff Whitt also revealed that the weapon used to murder Heidi Childs and David Metzler was a .30/30 RIFLE.
Being somewhat of a firearm enthusiast, when I first read the handout, I missed the “rifle” designation. My mind was spinning about the fact that their is a 30/30 Winchester pistol that is 30 caliber and all sort of ammo possibilities are in play-
However, establishing that the weapon used to kill both victims was a 30/30 rifle sends it’s own set of messages.
In general, a 30/30 is a lever action rifle which is the most common deer cartridge in the US for hunters.
It is not a sniper- type weapon, with an under 200 yard range and equipped with a magazine or not, it is unlikely a target someone is not going to notice one carrying it and aiming it directly.
Alternative ammo and casings were not included in the press conference.
There is upwards of a $70,000 dollar reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of a person or persons responsible for the crime.
Check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates
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This is a long time later to come out with the first request for these items. Were they afraid it would compromise leads? Why the emphatic message about the DNA; to whom was that message really directed? And where would they have the DNA from the crime as it had been described?
Good Questions.
I do not believe the Montgomery County Sheriffs Office is interested in releasing any further information but I am trying to change that mindset.
Imo, the killer assumed his DNA would be found at the scene. I also think they should have been upfront that they believe Heidi was the targeted objective of sorts.
Why just take her purse and belongings when they were in David’s car?
I also believe they think this is someone local.
B
My dearest Blink,
Thank you for the breakdown on this case. Although my dad was a hunter and this area is full of hunters, I am not a rifle expert and I appreciate your details and photos of the rifles which could have been used. This sad, sad case haunts so many of us in Montgomery County. I know Tommy from way back and he is a former Marine, and I donated to his campaign because I have always believed in him and know he has integrity. I think of Heidi and David’s parents so often and pray for them. Those poor innocent kids-I am so ashamed some local pervert could do this.
Connie- have you heard anything local about who has been asked to submit DNA?
B
Blink- I have not asked or heard but I will. In a weird twist, I just got off the phone with Tommy and I am signing up for our Citizen’s Police Academy and have offered to volunteer for whatever on this case to help in any way I can. It is so scary to thinks this local walks among us.
Congrats- that is awesome.
B
Hey-
I dont have my laptop handy-
She was raped wasnt she? Someone associated with her Dad?
jb
Undisclosed.
B
was heidi sexually assaulted or is that too bold of a question? i’m sorry i’m not trying to be disrespectful, i hope that didn’t come across as a rude question. i understand if you can’t answer it.
Has not been disclosed and a logical question.
B
lizzy says:
March 30, 2012 at 7:00 am
This is a long time later to come out with the first request for these items. Were they afraid it would compromise leads? Why the emphatic message about the DNA; to whom was that message really directed? And where would they have the DNA from the crime as it had been described?
____________________________
My guess is they were hoping that the killer would slip up and use or display some of the items if they did not indicate they knew they were missing. By saying they are looking for them, it pretty much guaranties he will then immediately hide or dispose of them. They gave him plenty of time to mess up, so maybe someone will remember them now. A huge % of the folks who live in that area will have that type of gun. I cannot remember if it was deer season or not. If it was, lots of folks would have had them in their cars.
Was not deer season. I think if LE believes this individual is hanging on to her purse and contents after almost 3 years of a brutal homicide, it is pretty clear they are working from a profile of the offender.
If they are, he will have these items.
B
update: The lead investigator is being very tight-lipped about this.
First let me say that I feel totally inadequate even speaking on this case, although it has been one that’s been on my mind now for years. The first thing that comes to mind is that apparently since they have had the DNA for awhile now, whoever did this wasn’t in the DNA database or an arrest would have come by now.
Second, what shocks me is that the shooter even though he could have shot from a distance of up to 600 ft, may not have. If he did, he took a huge chance by going down to the scene to pick up Heidi’s purse, cell phone, lanyard and camera.
Third, since they have said before that it seemed to be a random killing, how is it that Heidi could have been the objective? I’m just attempting to work this out in my own mind before I write too much and look like an idiot.
It may be random, I know that was the initial thought, but my sources tell me David was killed instantly and Heidi was not. So that in itself COULD indicate that she was the target and was accessed by incapacitating Metzler. I get the feeling that there was no attempt to paint the crime as a botched burglary. This is overkill. If it is or was random it was someone cruising to find just what he found- and I am just not feeling the likelihood of that.
I note the use of the word apprehension vs. caught or catch.
PS- your never an idiot Q, lol
B
“WE HAVE DNA EVIDENCE. WE ARE ACTIVELY AND AGGRESSIVELY PURSUING YOU, WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL YOU ARE APPREHENDED.“
Blink… Has the DNA been matched to Sketch?
diana h.
To my knowledge it has not been matched to any known individual.
B
If the car wasn’t moved and David was shot first that would mean the shooter was on driver’s side. Since LE knows the type firearm and its range, I guess they would also know pretty much where the shooter stood to fire? Maybe they picked up some evidence from that site. I sure hope the release of new information leads to the arrest. Gosh, those two kids look so sweet and innocent. It just makes me sick to see how much evil surrounds us all. Prayers for these families and friends.
Also, if Heidi was the target, are you saying the shooter was someone she/they knew. Would that person have followed them there, already been there or maybe part of a planned get together?
They were both shot with a 30/30 rifle which is lever loaded. Accuracy is always mostly dependent on the shooter, but it is not known for any sort of sniper in the dark activity, although it is certainly scopeable with compatible ammo up to 300 yards with practice on fixed targets.
That said, it was dusk or dark, but that rifle in that instance is likely held with 2 hands or on a tripod ( if fixed target). Depending upon the projectile placement and amounts, I still say that someone is going to see anyone walking up on them with a rifle, and it would be difficult to site Heidi as a target when she was in motion, and she did not get very far from the vehicle. Lots of considerations really- I would need to know more about the range, entry/exit placements and of course the ammo.
I have yet to hear if the vehicle was disabled in some way, and that was the source of the outgoing communication from the couple. If that is correct, then yes, absolutely they were the target by someone who knew they would be there at that time. Was this an admirer who followed them, and had a reaction when the couple was together in the car?
Multiple gunshots near a gun range is not going to draw a great deal of attention, I have to wonder if the range attendances were checked against this weapon.
B
I am wondering if the source of the DNA could be by way of touch from a spent casing as a lever action 30-30 would eject the spent cartridge. Good possibility of a partial print as well if this is the case. But I have no idea if a spent cartridge was even part of the findings…theoretically the perp could have recovered the casing themselves??
he could have, yes.
B
Sorry for the crass directness, but is there any indication from LE that Heidi was raped?
Has not been disclosed twink.
B
Blink was there a violent, sexual component to this murder?
Has not been disclosed Word Girl.
B
I didn’t follow this case as much as others, but am wondering about a few things I just read in this old article. Would this be the norm at a one year later, memorial gathering?
Did LE really expect to find the suspect in this group of “about 13″ people?
They were being “protected and questioned by multiple law enforcement officers”.
Protected AND questioned? Interesting.
———————————–
*”About 13 people gathered Thursday night around a cross in the Caldwell Fields parking lot where Heidi Childs and David Metzler were found dead on Aug. 27, 2009″
*”Attendees were protected and questioned by multiple law enforcement officers, including members of the Virginia State Police, Tech Police and Montgomery County Sheriff’s Office.”
*”Lisa Gardner, a former police officer in Washington, D.C. area and a Blacksburg native, organized and publicized the vigil, which was not associated with Tech or the Childs or Metzler families.”
*”Gardner spent most of the afternoon walking the field and watching police officers file in and out of the parking lot as they continued to search for new details.”
*”After the song and a closing prayer, the guests filed out down Craig Creek Road, where they were stopped at a police roadblock. Licenses and vehicle registrations were recorded. Drivers were questioned about their motives for attending the vigil and their level of involvement with the case.”
—–
“Vigil unites Caldwell Fields community on anniversary of shootings”
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/15726/vigil-unites-caldwell-fields-community-on-anniversary-of-shootings
Zeus- you got me on that one, that is bizarre.
B
Even with Heidi’s phone taken, was LE able to review all incoming/outgoing call on both cells? Was her phone immediately disabled?
LE looking for information also regarding possible vehicles seen in and around the area that evening, a few pick up trucks mentioned I wonder if they managed to get some tyre tracks? Sounds like some loon just drove up, shot these kids and left, no attempt to hide the crime whatsoever, it seems.
I can remember back to 2010 when Ralph Leon Jackson was arrested for the shootings at the Rock Point Overlook hoping that they would have finally gotten the killer of Heidi and David also. It’s hard to believe that so much terrible tragedy could happen in areas of Virginia.
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/apr/08/three_people_reported_shot_on_blue_ridge_parkway-ar-206657/
The movie ‘Dead Man Walking’ comes to mind. Some similarities.
If Heidi was the ‘target’, I hope her family and friends have been questioned. Surely, she (Heidi) would have shared her concerns with them if she felt threatened or stalked.
They’re both beautiful young people. I’ve never heard of this case before…I’m deeply saddened they were taken away far too soon.
Prayers are in motion from this end.
~Lovingly~
This is an absolutely heartbreaking case. When I look at the picture above I see my daughter and her boyfriend. I asked my husband, who I consider to be an expert in firearms, Vietnam vet, hunter, southern boy, etc, what is his first thought when he hears “30/30″. His answer: hunter, first rifle as a kid is a 22, then your daddy buys you a 30/30…you have become “man enough to handle it.”
Yep.
B
PS…I meant to ask if it’s possible 2 or more were involved in the murders. Heidi may have been trying to ‘bargain’ for her life, delaying her death (?)
One thing comes to mind for me when I read this vehicle discription:
Dark colored Ford Crown Victoria or Chevrolet Caprice sedan: Seen driving on Craig Creek Road around 10:00 p.m. on night of the murders
You don’t know how many times I’ve researched Police Impersonators and saw this vehicle discription listed as one to be on the look out for. At the time it was spotted would put it going right past the kids and David’s vehicle. It just makes me wonder if one of those guys, wanna be cops who couldn’t make it any other way in Law Enforcement could be responsible. Some have been caught, others are still out there prowling back roads attempting to make traffic stops.
Unequivocally, that is correct. There IS a concern that this individual is impersonating a LEO.
B
http://www.cbicc.org/Membership/MemberNews/tabid/78/smid/401/ArticleID/681/Default.aspx
Lee’s “legal problems” seem to have a put a damper on few, if any, of his activities.
This is a wonderful pianist; should I attend?
First let me say thank you for bringing us this new information Blink and Co
Second let me offer my prayers to the families and friends of Heidi and David
Now to the new information…
I have some questions on the latest…heres why-
David was shot through the drivers side window- right?
This makes it sound as if the perp was right outside the car…was he? or was David shot from a distance? If so what distance- and regardless- if Heidi was sitting next to David in the passenger seat and she was the target…then the perp was taking a chance that she would not be shot dead too with the same bullet…what if at the last second they kissed or embraced? next- what if he missed david altogether and hit Heidi?
If Heidi “immediately” got out and ran- then David didnt fall on her or bleed on her or not alot?? She didnt go into shock it would seem… which way did David fall? and if Heidi ran then the time it took for her to exit the vehicle could have given the shooter the chance to sight her as she ran…but if he intended for her to survive the shot then he would have aimed for her leg…. otherwise he might miss and make a kill shot…especially given the make of gun…
What if She attempted to run but fell and he caught up with her…and then afterwards gave her a head start on running free?
What is the forensic evidence?
If he raped her or touched her then that could be the answer….or perhaps it was left behind with the car or with David?
How far was Heidi found from the vehicle?
How many times was she shot?
Was Davids blood on her?
Was the same rifle used for both kills or was it just the same caliber rifle but different?
Blink you are correct about the rifle it tends to not be as accurate at long ranges over 200 yards- although it can be based upon the expertize of the shooter…
BUT heres the thing 30/30s tend to get hot fast and this tends to affect the accuracy of the bullet…shot placement is the most crucial
factor although ammo also would effect the accuracy or could as well as weather and terrain……. obviously they wanted David dead immediately did they want Heidi dead immediately too, or did they want her alive for a while?
If rape was on their mind How does one rape a person suffering from a gun shot wound? Seems very troublesome and gory… please excuse the graphic nature of these comments- no disrespect is intended…
I am leaving you with a quote from a hunting forum which better states my thoughts- although again- it all depends on the expertize of the shooter the ammo and other factors such as weather and terrain..
“A 30-30 cannot be bedded and floated by design, so you are always going to have some possibility for stray bullets…especially after the first shot….. Anytime a barrel touches something like the forestock or another metal part, it causes vibrations that will through the bullet off. A 30-30 barrel is touched not once, but twice by the barrel clamp rings. That can only mean disaster for shots longer then 100 yards…unless you need to shoot around a corner. ”
http://forums.basspro.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002819;p=1
Prayers for the families and for the community
Thanks again for covering this story Blink
Sorry for the length and the subject matter as well as any errors or typos
AJMO
Blink I just read your response to jane where you addressed some of my concerns and points.
If David was shot from a distance or even at close range, then this shooter has to be a good marks men- otherwise he could have easily have hit David on the shoulder or hit him in the neck and therby could have killed Heidi with the same shot- especially if at close range….
Was Heidi in the car when David was shot?
I agree we need to know the where the entrance and exit wounds were…and what type of ammo was used… and it would help to know how far Heidi was from the vehicle if she ran there or if the perp moved her there…
I agree that shots wouldnt necessarily alarm anyone near a gun range…but certainty a woman screaming would….and what of all those vehicles seen near the area…why didnt these vehicle owners come forward?
excellent question Blink- you asked:
I have to wonder if the range attendances were checked against this weapon.
PS- I also agree with Tangos husbands thoughts on the rifle although I would add that this rifle is still “light” and doesnt have a lot of recoil…that could mean something when weighed against who the shooter might be- but probably not as most hunters regardless of size and age tend to have a favorite firearm…so this could just be a case of the shooter liking and knowing his rifle…
AJMO
To my knowledge, David was still in his seatbelt, and I don’t believe I can say with certainty without LE confirmation that Heidi was in the vehicle when he was shot.
Le has not disclosed whether Heidi was a victim of a sexual assault, nor have they denied it.
B
Blink, do you think this has anything to do with Morgan? I’m feeling like we left her back on the other thread…not that I don’t feel for what happened to these kids. I have been waiting to hear the words,
WE HAVE DNA EVIDENCE. WE ARE ACTIVELY AND AGGRESSIVELY PURSUING YOU, WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL YOU ARE APPREHENDED. What about Morgan Harrington?
alexandra- the only connection to Morgan I am aware of is that they were VT students.
I have released more of my thoughts and profile data on Morgan’s offender in the last several weeks than before, I try to be diligent in all cases I cover.
B
Ok guys- I have full confidence in our Montgomery Co. Sheriff’s Dept.
If David was still in his seatbelt, that, imo, means either they had just arrived at that spot and hadn’t unbuckled their seatbelts yet, OR, they had been there for a while, this car may have stopped before, and then left and came back. When David and Heidi noticed the car coming back, it may have alarmed them and they immediately started to buckle up and get ready to book the heck out of there.
DNA evidence….from raping Heidi, or did she fight him and it was found under her nails?
Yep, me too….Crown Victoria = cop car. I’m also wondering about some of the other women whose bodies/cars were found along the highway…were they victims of this same perp? Is it a wanna-be cop or a real one?
I have had a few off the record conversations in this case, no, they do not believe this case is related to those murders. That said, they are not saying exactly why.
You will note that Montgomery County maintains this case and not VSP, although Heidi’s dad is retired from VSP. I got the impression this is intensely personal
B
This crime seems so personal to me. As if the perpetrator has an ‘attitude’ of some sort: Either resentment, frustration, god-complex, revenge, or a sociopathic abandonment-syndrome, giving rise to narcissistic superiority and grandiose ideations. (C-Thing.)
I think the shoot approached the driver’s side door from the rear of the vehicle while the victims were facing forward–particularly as David was incapacited in his seatbelt. He open the car door with his left hand, raised the rifle to his chest and, using both hands, fired at David, at least one time.
Heidi, seeing the figure open the door and the gun raised, unclicked her belt, opening the door, and began to run to the side or front of the vehicle. She would not have run toward the back where he could have met her head-on.
“Stop, or I’ll shoot (kill) you” may have been the command and Heidi may have been too shocked to scream. Although LE don’t confirm or deny a sexual assault, they assert that some time passed between the two shootings. As it was dark, she could have been assaulted near the vehicle or taken into the woods and brought back where she was then shot.
A sexual assault would provide strong access to DNA, but it could have been gotten in many other ways. Touch DNA was already in use at the time of these murders.
Blink, just wondering if there’s any talk of Don Child’s enemies? As a helicopter pilot he could have ferreted out some funky futives.
In general, Don Childs was a helicopter pilot employed by VSP at the time, not an investigator, so the thought is no, but again, who is to say someone did not have an overall vendetta?
B
2nd graf: *shooter
OT
Rest in Peace, Tray Martin. I’m saving a lot of Skittles for the upcoming battle.
Thanks B. for replying to my question about the DNA. So, both the Childs / Metzler murders and Morgan’s murder have DNA from an unknown subject (or subjects).
Searching for the commonalities…
Blink, would you say that another thing in common with the murders was the seemingly personal nature of the crime? i.e. in Morgan’s case, jewelry not stolen – so not a robbery – leaving one to suspect this is personal.
Blink says: “alexandra- the only connection to Morgan I am aware of is that they were VT students.”
Leads me to another question. Is it known whether Morgan’s VT ID, also called a “Hokie Passport” was found in her bag (with VT lanyard?) ? Or, possibly in her apartment? Or was that taken or otherwise lost?
Link to Hokie Passport info:
https://secure.hosting.vt.edu/www.hokiepassport.vt.edu/index.php
Is that another thing the cases may have in common?
These poor kids. How awful for their families. Peace and love to all three families. All are rebuilding their lives with tremendous strength. They have so much love coming their way from BOC, because of you Blink.
Peace and love “which transcends all understanding” to all of the families who have been victimized by the murder of a loved one.
Keep up the good work B. and Blinksters.
diana h.
I don’t know “not” stealing from the victim means it is personal and not a robbery, in fact, I would offer that sadistic predators objectify their prey/subject immediately.
S0, as difficult as it may seem on the surface, that crime (Morgans) to the offender is anything but personal.
No remorse, no empathy, no humanity-the victim is simply a conduit for sexual satisfaction that has fused same with violence, and is unable to be aroused by any other means.
I read The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (Stieg Larson), watched the subtitled Swedish movie version, and last evening viewed the Daniel Craig/Rooney Mara/Christopher Plummer version.
Not intended to take away from the scene, which frankly should be studied in criminology as a contemporary practical application of a sado sociopath in action because it is brilliant, but this excerpt:
But you know, we’re not that different, you and I. Both have urges. Satisfying mine requires more towels.
In context, in that book and screenplay, that is exactly the mindset occurring at the time of Morgan’s murder, imo, completely devoid of personalization.
No, her lanyard/School ID is not missing.
The phraseology of the missing purse contents and purse is odd to me.
It leads me to believe not everything she may have had in the purse was taken, as things are described as “taken from her purse.”
A thought: I wonder if it has been ruled out that her purse was stolen previously, and the suspect made contact with her to return it in the shape of a LEO.
So apparently I have inadvertently strong 2 cases I do not believe are related, together, lol.
As you are aware, I have pointed out ad nauseum that I believe it possible that Morgan reported her purse stolen from her car to gain access at 9:35PM the night she went missing.
If there were any reason to believe that the cases were linked, VSP would be working the Metzler/Childs murder, period.
B
Blink thanks for the information.
It does seem that the initial reports stated that David was in his seatbelt, although I cant seem to link to any….
Here is the only mention I can find so far IRT the seatbelt though- if anyone has any other links Id appreciate it….
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/15726/vigil-unites-caldwell-fields-community-on-anniversary-of-shootings
“From the few details that have been released about the crime scene, we know that David Metzler was shot in his car and didn’t even have the chance to unbuckle his seat belt, while Heidi Childs did flee the car and was cut down a short distance away.”
It is interesting to read the comment section now – after this new info has been released…
For instance the community did not believe anything had been taken, we now know Heidis purse is missing with her camara, lanyard- & one credit card
It was also not believed to be a sexual aassualt…but one comment advises not to take this info at face value…
see here;
“@Fred, you may want to rethink that rape statement, a lot of details were kept hush hush because of her family connection to law enforcement”
It was also believed there was no DNA evidence- we now know that is not the case…
According to this early article The FBI was assisting as early as Sept-
http://www2.wsls.com/news/2009/sep/03/fbi_joins_investigation_into_virginia_tech_student-ar-371371/
“The FBI is also lending its resources to help with testing on any evidence.”
—
Georgie- good point if Blink and the early reports are correct regarding David being seatbelted in…then it could mean they were about to leave, not just arriving at the scene….
More thoughts in part 2
AJMO
Blink, How tall was David?
The reason I ask is He seems to have been rather tall. which would mean that in a 1992 toyota camry, the vehicle he was driving, his head would be rather close to the ceiling of the car…
It seems likely A shooter with a 30-30 would have had to be in a particular spot to carry out a head shot…
What I mean is the shooter most likely could not have been in a truck or standing at higher ground… It seems the shot had to have been from a distance away- or the shot could have been at close range…
I am explaining this poorly but do you understand what I mean?
Here are a couple of links to a pic of a 1992 toyota camry -
http://tinyurl.com/7f75y7w
and
http://tinyurl.com/7osdbov
See what I mean? Also a toyota camry is not a large car, in early reports it was reported that Heidi and David brought their guitars…
http://articles.wdbj7.com/2011-08-25/david-metzler_29929442
“They went there to talk and play guitar.”
and from the RT article entitled:
No closure, only new kinds of pain for family of slain Tech student Heidi Childs article entitled
snipped-
“David had been to the Caldwell Fields site and wanted to share its beauty with Heidi, he said. Heidi had written some songs and wanted to share them with David.”
“Both took their guitars.”
—
Where were the instruments found were they found?
Was David playing it?
That seems unlikely as he had his seatbelt on…
Did Heidi get out to retrieve the guitars from the trunk..was she returning them to the trunk when the bad guy?s came up? Could that explain why she was out of the vehicle?
Were the keys in the ignition? Was the trunk open? Did one have to a key to open the trunk, or was there a button inside?
Just some thoughts…
thanks for letting me post them
AJMO
Yes Mom 3.0, there are likely hundreds of things we would all like to know, I wish I could say that I felt those answers would be forthcoming. It has taken nearly 3 years for this information which to be honest, is not complete, and well known among most.
As far as the shooter and David’s positioning and height, honestly, I cannot exclude about 5 reasonable scenarios. One might be he held a gun on both and ordered Heidi out of the vehicle?
Just as an aside, depending on the range, a shot to the head or upper torso region from a 30/30 would likely be instantly fatal.
There is just no way to distill this further without more intel.
So the question is really, why now, and why (fill in)?
B
I’m still curious about the cellphones (#l6). Also, I read article from WDBJ7, 8/25/11 “Investigators received hundreds of tips…and have said the killer is a person very familiar with the crime scene. Someone with good reason to be in the area that night.” Does that mean they were familiar with Caldwell Field or the immediate crime scene itself. If the killer had reason to be there, was it to kill or someone who worked/lived in close proximity? Also, to have generated so many leads in such a rural area, it seems some folks must have been “on to something”?
Are you sure the words familiar with the crime scene were used?
B
Blink… Has the DNA been matched to Sketch?
diana h.
To my knowledge it has not been matched to any known individual.
********
B
Le has not disclosed whether Heidi was a victim of a sexual assault, nor have they denied it.
B
*******
alexandra says:
March 31, 2012 at 9:14 am
Blink, do you think this has anything to do with Morgan
alexandra- the only connection to Morgan I am aware of is that they were VT students.
****
My heart is so vested in what happened to Morgan that it is hard to dismiss other crimes that happened around the same time and close to her. The murder of Heidi and David seems to be so different from Morgan’s yet similar. You said about the DNA from Heidi and David’s murder not being matched to any known individual yet sketch is not an individual so we do not know if it was a match to sketch. The fact that they have not denied that Heidi was sexually violated has to be saying something. Could they be trying to upset someone who did not violate Heidi by letting the public think the murderer did? Just an idea. The lady who organized the 1 year vigil name peaked my interest. Is there any connection to DG who interacted with Morgan in the parking lot? I can’t find any so it is probably one of those other wierd co-inky things.
Blink, sorry I don’t know how to copy. I did doublecheck the article. “Investigators have said the killer is a person very familiar with the crime scene, someone with a good reason to be in the area that night.” That would make me think someone local who may frequent the place – work or recreation? Could that be why there were so many tips? Everyones’ hinky meters were on high alert because of someone in particular or something they may have seen/heard?
When you mention this case being “Intensely Personal”, do you think Heidi’s murder could have anything to do with her Dad having been a Virginia State Police?
I don’t know.
B
Yes agreed- Blinjk
Surely alot of this information is known by LE
Take for instance the trajectory of the bullet the closeness of the perp and the barrel of the gun etc. Alot can be figured out through blood spatter – such as if Heidi was in the vehicle or not- whether the window was down or partially up etc etc.
Youre also right we dont know were David was shot- it could have been in the chest but if that were the case then the shooter would most likely have been either toward the front of the car- or in close proximity to David… just as in your scenario of ordering heidi with the rifle pointed at David…
if it was a chest shot then this would tend to point away from the shooter being farther away unless David was turned in the seat.
I also agree that we can not figure out more without more info… very frustrating but your questions seem to be what are important
Why now come forward with any new info?
I also noticed your response to Q-
“I note the use of the word apprehension vs. caught or catch.”
perhaps they are speaking to him with certain vocab and info to illicit a particular response
AJMO
Apprehension is a cop term. Has it’s own Police radio and Citizens Band code.
I have no idea if they “suspect” this suspect is a leo impersonator or other, but there is no doubt in my mind that message was cop to cop language intended to evoke a response.
The article regarding the virtual shake down of the one year memorial attenders at the site led by a former LEO from DC cemented my opinion of that.
Either they suspect more than one, or our offender is younger, nobody impersonating a cop is wielding a 30/30.
Denied security lic applications or handgun permits should be priority.
Interesting how being gunned down in the parking lot makes this a Montgomery County Police matter, as opposed to inside the park or on the State highway, making this a Park Police ( and likely Federal matter eventually) or VSP jurisdiction respectively.
B
I did read LE is collecting DNA from locals and people known to frequent the area in order to hopefully eliminate them as possible perps. I would think if it is someone local, that would make them squirm or disappear.
He left his DNA at a double homicide- he is not a squirmer.
If I were a betting person, this activity is based on the passing and implementation of familial DNA in VA.
B
@Blink Says:
He left his DNA at a double homicide- he is not a squirmer.
If I were a betting person, this activity is based on the passing and implementation of familial DNA in VA.
B
=========
Wow! I just read an article on this! So basically, LE is hoping to obtain DNA of a close relative by chance that lives in this area. This could potentially help them find their perp if he/she is related to one of the volunteer donors of DNA. So if the perp has left the area, the Familial DNA Testing Law can still give LE a way to find them.
Blink says – Respectfully snipped:
I have no idea if they “suspect” this suspect is a leo impersonator or other, but there is no doubt in my mind that message was cop to cop language intended to evoke a response.
—————————-
BINGO!
One more thing. During that news conference, while Tommy Whitt spoke directly to the camera/killer, the two other investigators behind him looked like deer caught in the headlights, and the older man next to them looked almost ashamed as well as sad.
I’m guessing they already know who did this, and they are just hoping he will step forward before they take his swab. If they need to, they will swab family members. JMHO
Blink, as a firearm enthusiast myself, I have done a fair amount of studying on caliber size etc. It is a confusing subject at best. It’s kind of like explaining HD TV, 1080 versus 720, p versus i, and all of that versus the old standard tube TV.
The 30-30 rifle fires a huge cartridge compared to 30 caliber pistol ammunition. “30-30″ comes from an old definition of the cartridge and indicates the caliber and grains of powder. The whole subject is quite complex in that the caliber is only the bullet size. A 30 caliber weapon could be designed as anything from a close range low velocity handgun to very long range sniper or hunting weapon by changing the cartridge/case size.
Also 30 caliber is the same as 7.62mm for anyone interested. Of course we could then get into NATO (military) versus civilian but as I said, it does take a fair amount of studying to make it all clear. Heck, most Hollywood terminology usually manages to mess it up somewhere along the way during their shoot’em up extravaganzas.
In closing a 30-30 rifle is a brutal weapon to use on a human being and indicates a local person who uses the rifle as a hunting weapon. It is NOT very useful nor intended for use as an assault or home defense weapon. It’s pretty much considered a short range brush gun for deer.
Al- thanks for that, prior to confirmation an actual 30/30 RIFLE was used, I was all over the different possibilities, as you point out.
The fact that it is an actual rifle and was likely used at close range, I agree entirely. Moreover, someone using that firearm with regularity knows the brutality of it.
B
B
Blink I understand your thoughts- I too found the one year memorial strange –
Your possible thoughts on the perp are interesting as well.
So the fact that this took place inside the parking lot of a national forest directs who is in charge? Wow-
I thought you and your readers may appreciate this article detailing which agencies are involved in the task force:
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2009/sep/11/authorities_form_task_force_to_investigate_virgini-ar-211322/
The task force consists of:
the Montgomery County Sheriff’s Office;
the Town of Blacksburg and Christiansburg police departments;
the Virginia Tech Police Department;
the Virginia State Police;
the Federal Bureau of Investigation;
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms;
the United States Marshal’s Office; and
the United States Forest Service.
“Bringing the various agencies who have already contributed to the investigation of this crime into one centralized location and group just makes good sense,” Montgomery County Sheriff Tommy Whitt said in a news release.
–
Id be interested in hearing your thoughts on how this many hands in the kitchen could help the case Blink-
AJMO
To Jane-
Hi Jane- when I first started posting on BOC I didnt know how to copy and paste either-
Id really like to read those articles you read Jane- if I can Ill try to help walk you through copying and pasting the url here okay?
After you have found and opened the article, using your mouse, go to the little window at the top which will read http://www and so on
holding down the left button of the mouse move the mouse over the url- this will highlight the address, once it is all highlighted let go of the left button- now right click (press the right button down on your mouse) a small window should open whith several directives
undo cut copy paste… choose the word copy, le4ft click on it- then in the BOC’s “leave a comment section” right click again the same small window will open, choose the directive word “paste” left click on the word and the address will appear in the comment section
Hope this helps
Peace
Blink and Jane,
Hello I found another article which states that the lead investigator, at least in the beginning, believed the perpetrators were familiar with the area
http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2010/feb/24/authorities_again_seek_publics_help_in_investigati-ar-210670/
snipped:
“Rakes said the evidence shows the suspect or suspects are very familiar with that area.”
What evidence would lead :E to think the person was “very familiar” with the area?
AJMO
Mom3.0…thanks. I’ll have to make time to read and practice that this week. I may get it but may not! If not, grandkids will be around next week – maybe they’ll help. Back to that “very familiar with the area”? WTH does that mean? Could it be someone that works/worked at the fields in some capacity. Were there any scheduled activities there or groups that held regular get togethers at the fields/campgrounds? They seem adament about that. I’m wondering if having said that was what generated all the mentioned leads. People in the area must have put two and two together but LE must still need more evidence. jmo
Based on the information in the article and the type of weapon, I think there are two people involved in these murders. One was the primary shooter from a distance and the other was up close.
My deer rifle is a 30-30 Marlin equiped with a scope. With a proper rest or support, it is possible to hit a target the size of a human head at 250 yards. This requires a bullet like a Hornaday or some hand loaded cartridge with a lot of powder. I also have a 22 cal. Marlin to use for practice without spending a ton for ammo.
The brass is not going to be very far from the weapon. Many hunters do not leave brass in the field. If this was a planned “hit”, I doubt that brass was found.
A lever action rifle is a lot easier to keep on the target during the eject and reload phase than a bolt action. We don’t know how many shots were fired nor do we have information that both were killed with the same caliber bullet.
At least after this much time, LE are going to the public for help. Should have happened a long time ago. Maybe a lead will develope to help them solve the case.
ATG- any chance you have used a M1 carbine in that 30/30 ever?
B
***feel free to keep this PRIVATE, unless you feel it progresses the discussion in an appropriate manner.
i know my shotguns fairly well, but being from jersey without any real rifle hunting opportunities i am wondering about the 30/30 specifically.
blink, when you say “They were both shot with a 30/30 rifle which is lever loaded” i have to ask if there are other actions available in a 30/30 like a bolt action or auto loader.
i don’t know if it is even that important to know that which actions it can be found in, because i believe LE has recovered at least one spent casing, and from that, they have determined that it was ejected via lever action.
i guess what i am getting at, is if we are confident it was a lever action, i think that tells us that the perp was well practiced using this firearm. shooting an unarmed young man strapped in with a seatbelt is incredibly gutless and does not require any skill other than to be a coward.
chambering a second round via lever action and then shooting a fleeing young woman in the back would require some proficiency/familiarity in handling that weapon, and would all but assure me the perp was at quite close range.
i am also struck once more by how incredibly gutless this was. this makes it essentially a double execution to me, and i would therefore put jealousy very high on my list of likely motives for this crime. if it was robbery and the victims did not know the perp, they would both be alive still.
now, i want to know a little more about that vigil that did not involve the families too. not sure what to think about the woman that organized it, but the fact that she is ex-LE and was carrying several weapons at the event got my attention. did anyone know the victims there at all? the piece did not make that clear.
last thought i have is, if there was perp DNA at the scene, it would have to be a body fluid or less likely, but still possible i guess, hair.
dt
deetee- perfectly sound post, and I agree with all of it.
Does not say random to me, says ambush. Again the wording of the objects as “taken from purse” and the fact that only Heidi’s belongings were taken, only she is out of the vehicle- emphasis added to the word BRUTAL in the release.
B