The Devil They Knew: Jessica Ridgeway Accused Murderer Austin Reed Sigg Profile Emerges
Graphic Warning: Segments of this report while accurate, are graphic and may be objectionable to some readers. It is definitely inappropriate for readers under the age of 18 without parental permission and recommended supervision.
Blink will be discussing the Jessica Ridgeway case LIVE On the Dana Pretzer Show Tonight At 9 PM
Click Here For Recorded Podcast
Westminster, CO- Standley Lake High School dropout Austin Sigg told his Mother he kidnapped 10 year old Witt Elementary student Jessica Ridgeway the morning of Friday October 5.
Mindy Ashbaugh Sigg , divorced from Robert J Sigg, the father of the couple’s two teenage boys, called Westminster Police Tuesday evening to alert them of her son’s admission.
Upon arrival, Austin Reed Sigg confessed the unthinkable. Sigg told investigators he strangled the little girl after he snatched her into his Jeep, hogtied her in the back, and they could find the remainder of the child in a cooler located in a crawl space at his 102nd St address. By 7:45PM Sigg was arrested for the kidnapping and murder of Jessica Ridgeway, and the attempted kidnapping and attempted murder of a female jogger on May 28, 2012 a few hundred yards from his home.
The self-professed death mobile was impounded and inventoried at an undisclosed evidence bay for processing .
Although Sigg did not graduate High School, he earned his GED and was attending the alternative school Warren Tech last March where he won second place in the forensics category- a CSI award. Sigg was currently enrolled at Arapohoe Community College with the intention of fulfilling the prerequisite courses necessary to join the mortuary science program- which requires a background check for acceptance.
The irony of an award matching the letters on the backs of jackets combing through the Sigg home was not lost on the seasoned crime scene technicians fastidiously processing this newest crime scene in the case.
It was also not lost on any of the law enforcement personnel present that field testing did not detect results synonymous with an environment used to dismember a human. They are confident that had to have occurred somewhere else.
They are missing a crime scene. Are they missing an accomplice?
Spawn or Pawn?
Austin Reed Sigg was born to Mindy and Rob Sigg on January 17, 1995 . This was the second marriage for Rob and two small children later, the couple would divorce before Austin’s fifth birthday.
Mindy Sigg, a tech for a Lasik provider in Westminster, had full custody of the boys while Rob continued his long and varied criminal history consisting of DUI’s, drugs, and finally landing in Federal prison for an identity theft and mortgage scheme in 2006. Robert is the president of Performance One Media- the company is named in current civil litigations, and he owns a go Kart racing team.
Extended family members speaking on the condition of anonymity to BOC, confirmed this morning that the family had serious concerns about Austin’s “direction” during his junior year at Standley Lake.
…” We heard that he was in counseling over issues related to the family breaking up, you know, Rob was in and out of prison sort of thing, but while Mindy kept telling everyone she was told this kind of phase of wearing black, being holed up in his room playing video games, and charging porn movies on her accounts was normal for a teenage boy, we had discussed someone taking the lead and mentioning we thought Austin did not seem “normal” for as long as I could remember. But then he had a girlfriend for a while, and he seemed to sort of snap out of it. The last thing I remember was that they had gone to some formal and the next thing we knew he was pulled out of school and in intensive therapy for a pornographic addiction, so I don’t know if that is what broke the kids up, or what. Mindy had it rough with the two boys on her own. She put herself through that school in Denver on her own dime while Rob got locked up and about the same time. I think the kids were probably very much on their own and by the time Austin started having really big issues, it may have been too late obviously.
We still don’t know how he comes out of prison and paid of over $140K in fines while Mindy was forced to file bankruptcy this summer we found out later. I tried to look up Rob’s stuff on the internet, but a bunch of the files from his criminal case are still sealed.”
A review of Ms. Sigg’s bankruptcy petition may indicate that Austin either had or was facing some juvenile charges. It was filed 2 days after the Memorial Day attack on a young female jogger Sigg is also charged with, and a few weeks prior to an elaborate luxury vacation the family took to the US Virgin Islands. As reported by kdvr, Investigators with WPD and the FBI may not have been aware of their suspect’s international travels and are now in contact with authorities abroad.
Emerging Profile
As the news of Austin Sigg’s arrest flashed through the town of 18,000 and then the Nation, those that knew him or claimed to know him well, hit the web. Below are the highlights that portray a picture of an adolescent exhibiting signs worthy of
Sarah Moravec, a Standley Lake High School senior, says she picked on 17-year-old Austin Sigg nearly every day for having a high-pitched voice.
“I picked on him a lot,” Moravec said. “Austin was just different. So, why not pick on the different people? But then again, I was bullied whenever I was younger.”
The Standley Lake senior said Sigg often wore dark clothing and hung out at the back of the cafeteria with others.
“We didn’t even think he was somebody our age,” Moravec said. “We thought it was some 45-year-old pervert or something like that.”
“Danni”- a girl who dated Sigg twice and spent time with him at Warehouse 180, a meeting place for Christian teens.
“He was sweet. I knew he had like a weapons collections, swords and knives, but it was just like his man cave.
Christy Mueller- walking on the trail around Standley Lake recently, encountered Sigg and a few friends. She felt immediately as if he was up to something.
…” I just felt as soon as I saw him he was up to something, if he (her dog) was not here I am afraid of what might have happened…”
Meaghan Barker was Sigg’s lab partner at Warren Tech-
…” We learned about DNA analysis, finger printing, hair follicles and decomposition…”
Someone claiming to love Austin Sigg and a fellow victim of bullying that Sigg helped, started a face book page in support of Sigg late yesterday and said that he may have confessed because he knew whoever else was involved could not be caught. He went on to ask forgiveness for his friend and called the act satanic.
Although an avid gamer under the tag dohastvath, there are no current online stats exist past June 2010. Sigg’s voice can be heard here, he plays Yoshi in this YouTube series with two other boys where he repeatedly expresses he is not gay and references a disturbing knowledge of bondage and graphic sexual devices and situations. The series was uploaded in 2009.
It is clear that Austin Sigg has a slight speech impediment, and indeed, an efeminite vocal tone at 14.
Yesterday during the press conference Jefferson County Prosecutor Scott Storey announced that further charges were possible in connection with Ridgeway’s murder and the investigation is ongoing.
The autopsy of Jessica Ridgeway’s remains located on October 10th are complete pending forensic and toxicology testing, however, her cause of death , if known, has not been released publicly.
This morning, it was decided that Sigg will be charged as an adult. His next court appearance is scheduled for October 30th. Austin Sigg’s DNA was recovered from Jessica Ridgeway’s backpack.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this developing
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regarding the torso left on Hell Road.
The bag was left near a ‘landmark’ of old mine shaft. A spot that teens or others would get out of the car to investigate. Sigg knew that waste management trolled the road to pick up littered garbage from trucks heading to the dump.
Sigg wanted that torso found. He wanted a Living Hell Rd. The torso covers the bodies major organs. We think of a human body in totality, but sometimes ‘body’ is thought of as the torso region (and the head and brain).
So, symbolically and, believe me, I don’t give him that much credit, he has separated the mind from the body, the head from the torso, which need each other to function.
Was he ripped apart by his mother and father? Was his life disambiguated and living on his own Hell Road?
Sigg may have kept the head and the hands and clothing to delay law enforcement identification of little Jessica.
A little way off the forensics of this case, Sacred and Sacrilege: Body Symbolism in art and culture.
http://www.phoresis.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:sacredsac&catid=36:artresearch&Itemid=57
Given Sigg’s limited education and his immaturity, he could have been impressed by satanic or wannabe cults, as he heard tales from others who had dabbled in what they would call, the occult.
There is a variety of interpretable scenarios for the combination of what was found and where. My research and public and unpublished knowledge in this case leads me to believe this kid had a definite “spiritually based”agenda of sorts. If he is as I suspect a sexual sadist, there is no way to go further in the profile without knowing the exact condition of the torso, and the associated remains. To interpret here would be a bit like a WAG , but preliminarily, I agree with you Word G.
B
^^^^
random musings above. keep scrolling!
Ive been forgetting to ask what everyone thinks about Ari Liggett and his mom (and her parts). Arrested in Colorado…I don’t know if it’s been discussed here–but did do advanced Google search.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57536438-504083/police-say-colo-man-accused-of-dismembering-mother-told-them-he-recently-learned-he-wasnt-in-her-will/
His DNA was cleared from known samples in Ridgeway, but I would like to know if there are any associations worthy of note.
B
@ Coloradoan,
I remember the very first thing that caught my eye in re: to the torso location, were the markings on the old cabin!
Thank you for your post, these were my suspicions that I haven’t beem able tpo clarify.
Also at Coloradoan- have you read all the comments in Jessica’s case? There are links to an art school youtube I feel reflect your thoughts.
B
Thinking on Ari Liggett makes me realize how close Aurora and Columbine are and there are a few profile similarities with Austin Sigg.
coloradoan==you mentioned you had local knowledge of the land; do you know of parallels to the above mentioned areas?
Coloradoan
Your local news people may not know of the activities associated with “hell road”. We really have few investigative reporters in the news business.
Teenagers that live in the vacinity of old abandoned industrial sites often explore them. They love to spin yarns and use their imaginations to make them something that they are not. However, sometimes they act on these things and kill animals and in this case it is possible that little Jessica was taken to the area prior to death.
Since you are familiar with the area you may know of some mine buildings that would provide shelter for a crime such as this.
Twenty-five years ago on a ski trip to Crested Bute, a group of us rented snow machines and traveled up to Maroon lake to race them across the lake. At the South end of the lake was a miners cabin that was accessable. It was not locked so anyone could enter. It was a one person mine and silver was placed in old fruit jars. This building was weatherproof and about 15′ x 30′ in size.
Word Girl says:
November 2, 2012 at 7:40 pm:
“Sigg may have kept the head and the hands and clothing to delay law enforcement identification of little Jessica.”
WG; Are you surmising what was found in the ice chest? Or do you know what was in the chest, specifically?
Blink not soft just mindful-
thanks for your reply and glad I could help you to fix your words, IRT our last discussion- Some research is out there that seems to point to a sexual sadist being born out of being shamed or guilted or denied a sexual fantasy or release during puberty…just thought Id mention that fact, as it might mean something in this case, based on Austins “porn addiction” therapy and his subsequent “acting out” sadly in the worst way
Respectfully, I would heartily disagree with any research that suggests that as a sexual sadist’s origin for that particular diagnosis. A sexual sadist classification is very specific under it’s development by Roy Hazelwood, Ann Burgess and Park Dietz. You and I are in complete agreement we need contemporary study in this area, however, because it is so rare, and let’s face it, Fed agencies are budgeting way more for forensic breakthough than anything else, I doubt it is on anyone’s bucket list that has the power to earmark. I am not permitted to quote anything from it, but I can tell you a recent study from a very well respected John Jay professor is going unpublished because it basically studied pedophile victims with a conclusion that 100% of the victims studied did not report the offender or offenses themselves, but the offenders were caught through various other interventions. The feeling was that at this point and time it was a negative message. WTF? That study needs to be delivered to every parent inbox with a child under 13. They don’t confer with me, lol, but not really laughing.
I think I shared this before. My lectures, after a few weeks of text, lab, and individualized case work started with Roy Hazelwood saying “Now we start talking about the guy we almost never catch.”
Blink glad to know you weathered the storm- my prayers to all impacted by Sandy-
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Amys sister- thank you for sharing your links and thoughts- very informative
TGF, I agree with you every state, every town, every suburb, every county has its local teen hangouts and each one has its legends and its names–
more often than not each name is “witchy” or warns of impending doom
TMK there wasnt any satanic activities going on at any of them – but yes there were fires and stories and graffiti in each – I think that is there to enhance the “stay out” factor-
The local reporters may not have mentioned the so called names or rumors out of respect for the family. WHy bring up rumors of satanic
anything when you are dealing with nothing but rumors right now?
Just as an aside, a close friend of Austin’s who is a minor, called what he did “satanic”, but defends him.
I have been very specific that I refer to Austin as having strong faith-based associations, which is verifiable. I agree with your sentiment that does not mean Satanic, but I do believe at the end of this case, when we learn about the conditions and wounds to Ridgeway’s body, and other facts of this case, I think his actions may be interpreted as sacrificial. In my mind, sacrifice of a child, and subsequent intended mutilations and actions are headed down that path.
That said, I am firm believer that disturbed individuals seek out the vehicle by which to support the actions they want to perpetrate, and their is no sort of organized cult issue in play. It is well known as you point out that you say the cword in any investigation and you might as well walk that perp out of the cell.
Look what the rumors did to the families of Stevie Mike and Chris- look what it did to the town.. look at what the rumors essentially did to the prosecutions case- in the final analysis. The rumors did nothing but make for a weak motive… in essence it led the prosecution down the wrong road to ensure the guilty verdicts were upheld.
It was only the motive for that crime, as in, that it was a planned Satanic event of some sort, creating Satanic panic, that was incorrect. Echols carved a pentagram in his chest, and various dozens of other evidence clearly proved his “influences”- however, I do not want to labor the contrasts and contradictions in the Sigg matter- they are by far very different in motivation and profile.
I think the local reporters are acting in the best interests of the family, the town, and the case -not to incite satanic panic on nothing more than rumors and a typical teen hangout complete with graffiti and a witchy name.
IRT that in 2012, most press and most investigators have learned that is just smokescreen amongst the bevy of available horror flicks and other genre. Folk lore exploration, etc. That said, I believe strongly this will be a shocking and disturbing crime that reflects “faith-based ” motivations on Sigg’s behalf.
I am being intentionally vague.
Coloradoan is right when he opined:
“If I, my siblings and all my friends knew about Hell Road, so did Austin and his friends. I’d bet money on it. That was not just a random drop off place.”
The art students were aware of it- and the graffiti is not anything satanic, if I am going off of what is shown in the vid- but it does have a creepy feeling to it and the masked guy and hand gestures or puppets are weird..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y391xST-gdM
But would I go so far as to say these art students are satanic? Or there is evidence of cult like activities? no-
but obviously they were aware of the site and the rumors…
Who knows maybe Austin was aware of this video and that was part of the reason he chose the site…
The reporters are aware of the site too- and I agree with Coloradoan, Austin did not just willy nilly pick out this location for his drop off-
It meant something to him, just as the cross did- but we can not begin to figure out what it meant until we have further info- because to me,
its just as easy to speculate that Austin, with his religious upbringing was twisting his beliefs not toward Satan but to some form of repentance or Abraham scenario God told me to–you know what I mean?
And it could just as easily be said that He has a God Complex not a Satanic leaning-
for didnt he place the backpack in Superior Colorado? isnt God Superior? and wasnt one of the Streets it was near named Alpha? as in Alpha and Omega?
Could Austin be acting out some sick version of religion sure but we cant begin to tell.
I dont think Austin dismembered the body to delay identification- He may have just did it because he could- I think nothing Austin did was to deter Police but instead he had a point to his madness-
Speaking of the backpack and the contents- some believe Jessicas clothes at least some of them were recovered in the backpack- for it wasnt until the backpack was located that LE began telling the public not to focus on what Jessica had been wearing but instead to focus on the gap in between her front teeth…
Word Girl I also took note of the double take in the vid to the drop off- after I found out it may have been taken by Austin- my first thought was that he didnt expect any one to be in that area..if I were the police I would be searching that area for further evidence- perhaps that place is significant to the crime in some way.
AJMO Peace
Austin is apparently one mixed up teen. Trying to understand the motive for his behavior will be very difficult without confirmed facts.
Was he trying to re-enact scenes from the old testiment with a modern twist? Was this an attempt to improve his standing with those he hung out with? What part, if any, did his attendance at the morticians classes play? What part does the prior attempt to kidnap the jogger play in his twisted world? Did Austin stalk the children in Jessica’s and other neighborhood looking for a child to kidnap or was this an instant choice when he found her walking alone?
He apparently used chloroform that he obtained from some source in the attempted kidnapping. Or, maybe it wasn’t chloroform but another substance that he obtained. Could it have been that he obtained an old can of ether that was used to put people to sleep for operations? It is no longer used, but I can tell you from experience that it has a terrible odor. This alone IMO would make the jogger fight hard to get away.
Why was he sent to the alternative school? What acts or group of acts caused the school to make the change? This may be partially informative in getting at how he chose to behave as he did.
Thanks Blink for reminding me that the Supreme Court had ruled that those under 18 that were being tried as adults could not be given the death penalty or life without possibility of parole. I knew this from the Eve Carson case in North Carolina where one of the perps fit that criteria and I just didn’t remember.
This is where I totally disagree with the Suprem Court. If a teen of any age commits a murder of another teen, child or adult, IMO they should be elgible for all the charges of an adult.
LL44 says:
October 27, 2012 at 10:01 am
Apparently Austin Sigg uploaded a YouTube video trolling past the scene of Jessica’s body & uploaded it the day after she was discovered. Seems like he found some “joy” in his game…
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981725642
I went back to look at this video again, and something weird happened. While it is playing someone keeps stopping the video and typing messages across the screen wrt the murder, etc. Very strange.
—————-
Note that it was posted PRIOR to LE identification of her the next day.
Hat tip to Kermit on SM for finding this:
http://www.reddit.com/user/lostwithinboredom
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=13607.msg1544115#msg1544115
B
Starter fluid is sold almost everywhere and is ether.
Blink- thanks for the well thought out response- I am mulling things over and researching – thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with me/us
I hope we can continue the discussion
I think I am beginning to understand more- BBL
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Idahogal,
Hi thanks for alerting us to that new video- the kid I am assuming its a kid because of his ummm… sense of humor is trying to say that he lostwithinboredom is NOT Austin Sigg or the killer he makes jokes about the news media getting it wrong- and references to “FOX” like quotes of “some people say” as the only means of verification before some the media jumped on this video and called it the murderers video.
So thanks idahogirl- I guess we can now put this video into the has nothing to do with AS ?
AJMO
Peace
Idaho girl 12:06 p.m. – that’s weird because the messages were not in the first version that I saw. So where did they come from? It appears that whoever it is is taunting Fox News??
The question is why just her torso there? How does that fit with maintained body parts at his residence?
I feel the question needs to include those issues as opposed to location, location location, which he clearly chose when he remained in “control” of his story.
B
________
Okay, I let my mind go there and I think I follow you now, Blink. These monsters play in their minds horrific fantasies and are driven to live them. Things that would make a normal person freak if these same thoughts went through their own mind or if they knew someone in their life was having them.
It requires a very deep darkness to embrace this in oneself. It is pure unadulterated evil. Once a person has reached this point there really is no cure. There is no changing it, it’s a done deal.
Was his fantasy, at 17 years old, so detailed, so graphic, that this was his story alone and if so, is he the first?
Am I following you correctly? That it normally takes more years to develop this type of fantasy and that is one reason you believe others were involved?
In a loose way, yes.
It is just not possible for me to cover the subject/profile as specifically as I would like, with integrity.
Frankly, nobody who has not interviewed him or had access to the case files against him should. We are working with empirical and case-based data.
I say again, they SEALED the case files and warrants PRIOR to an arrest. It is that bad.
B
Blink,
Do you know if LE has found or have identified the 2nd crime scene?
I do not know how many crime scenes we are working with, but if you are referring to the site unknown as to further assault and mutilation, to my knowledge they have not.
B
Peg
You are right about the starter fluid containing ether. However, the amount of ether in starter fluid is small. Ether has a low ignition point and fairly high vapor pressure is the reason for its use to start a reluctant engine. IMO it would take a pint can poured on a rag and inhaled a long time to produce any real effects.
The ether used to put people to sleep for surgery is much more concentrated. One can hardly smell the ether in starter fluid. In comparison, that used for medical purposes placing two or three drops on a cloth will cause one to try and stop breathing and it will put one to sleep reasonably fast.
Did Austin have some training in chemistry? Maybe as a part of his course work to prepare him for taking the morticians course. Of course there is always the internet to find things. The problem is would he understand enough of what he found to be useful in subduing a person. Whatever he tried to use on the jogger was not successful.
Okay Blink I am back- thanks so much for having this discussion with me as I am learning so much through your words and through further research- who knows by the end of it I may be able to claim I have received an online degree of sorts thru the Blink institute of criminology and profiling-
I Hope to continue the learning
Sorry for the length
Warning graphic content-
You wrote:
Just as an aside, a close friend of Austin’s who is a minor, called what he did “satanic”, but defends him.
—
Yes Blink I read your piece which included this friends FB comments- as you said he is a minor and it is apparent this person exhibits great empathy for both Austin and the victim- his “defense” seems to be that the Austin that he knew, wasnt capable of this and doesnt seem to fit the profile not “alone”….
It isnt hard to believe such a person who sees the good in Austin would describe this act as anything but “satanic” for many the word is easily used to describe anything abhorrent or against their good Christian upbringing.
I have no doubt that many people would describe this as Satanic- and that does not equate to it being a Satanic motivated crime in any way- I realize you understand this- but I am just underscoring your thoughts here- as I do believe we agree on much more than we disagree.
as you wrote earlier:
“My research and public and unpublished knowledge in this case leads me to believe this kid had a definite “spiritually based”agenda of sorts.”
& you went on to write in part:
“I have been very specific that I refer to Austin as having strong faith-based associations, which is verifiable. I agree with your sentiment that does not mean Satanic,”
and
“I think his actions may be interpreted as sacrificial.”
—
Yes Blink we agree here as I do believe Austins upbringing as a Christian may have lent itself to being incorporated in the aftermath of his crime- (I am unsure as of yet if it was planned and carried out with this backdrop in mind though…I need further info)
also as I wrote earlier:()added by me for further clarification
Austin, with his religious upbringing (may have been )twisting his beliefs not toward Satan but to some form of repentance or Abraham scenario ( sacrifice) God told me to–you know what I mean?
And it could just as easily be said that He has a God Complex not a Satanic leaning-
for didnt he place the backpack in Superior Colorado? isnt God Superior? and wasnt one of the Streets it was near named Alpha? as in Alpha and Omega?
Could Austin be acting out some sick version of religion? sure but we cant begin to tell.
—
As it turns out Blink and I am sure you already know, one of the known Characteristics of a sexual sadist is Power and control and the need to possess
I realize you believe Austin to be a sexual sadist and I must admit I am not on that page yet- as there are too many unknown variables and i am not as knowledgeable as you- but in my research I found that it is possible you are correct especially when discussing the issue of “God” IRT Austin
see here:
snipped from “The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness”, pp. 288-299.
Author states-
“the core of sadism, common to all its manifestations, is the passion to absolute and unrestricted control over a living being, 2 whether an animal, a child, a man, a woman. To force someone to endure pain or humiliation without being able to defend himself is one of the manifestations of absolute control, but it is by no means the only one. The person who has complete control over another living makes this living being into his thing, his property, while he becomes the other being’s god.”
“Sadism has essentially no practical aim; it is not ‘trivial’ but ‘devotional.’ It is the transformation of impotence into the experience of omnipotence; it is the religion of psychical cripples.“5
—
and Bundy is quoted as saying:
“murder isn’t just a crime of lust or violence. It becomes possession. They are part of you … You feel the last bit of breath leaving their bodies … You’re looking into their eyes … A person in that situation is God!”
and Hazelwood and a faculty member at the University of Virginia’s department of behavioral medicine and psychiatry, recalls one sexual sadist she studied in particular:
He had an incredible feeling of exhilaration.
“Then when he started killing women, he actually breathed life back into a couple of them, because they lost consciousness too quickly. He said, ‘I wasn’t going to let myself be robbed of the experience. I wanted to see in her eyes that she knew she was going to die, and that I was going to take her life. It is only in having that reflected back at me — and I need a conscious person to do that — that I can experience the power and control of being God-like.’”
—
_ It seems the God complex in part manifest from the perp not being arrested for prior assaults…which may seem to fit in this case with the earlier attempt with the jogger…
You went on to write:
” but I do believe at the end of this case, when we learn about the conditions and wounds to Ridgeway’s body, and other facts of this case, I think his actions may be interpreted as sacrificial. In my mind, sacrifice of a child, and subsequent intended mutilations and actions are headed down that path.”
—Blink yes I agree this crime and all aspects of it are going to be brutal- but right now I cant say that I am as confident as you seem to be in stating your belief that Austin is a sexual sadist. I hope through further discussions I can learn more of the whys of this belief as I am sure as more info becomes available you will be able to share more thoughts. I will share some things I have learned as I hope you will walk me through gaining a better understanding
IRT to “sacrifice” as I wrote in my last post, I agree with you, there may be a “sacrificial” element to Austins motivations- but Sacrificial in no way automatically to mean as in an occult sense but as it may pertain to the sexual sadist or a perpetrator with a God complex or religious fanaticism and NOT to a Satanist or “dabbler” or as an evil soulless “monster”
I think that is an important distinction to be made because I do believe just as you so rightly opined with the cword (cult) when satan etc is brought up in any investigation you might as well walk that perp out of the cell or right into a mental ward
Why chance it?
AJMO
Peace
Cont Part 2
I feel that the reason I consistently use “faith based” as opposed to many of my peers is because I staunchly believe that religion or “faith” is subjective enough to folks without Sigg’s need for orchestrating his illness in the form of diety. Diety is subjective to whoever one “obeys” or worships,
Makes no difference as to the handbook or church- it is lost in the end game already with this profile.
I do not want to oversimplify- but I do NOT want to empower either.
Slippery slope- all grey area, until we have more intel, as we agree.
The willingness to learn how to better advocate, protect, and grow is the goal of any work I preform.
I also agree it requires a combination of sources (me) and independent research for conclusion.
B
B
B
part 2
Blink before we get back to the exual sadist discussion..
Irt Damien Echols I know weve had this conversation before but just want to say that although you believe DE motivational “influences” were for the most part derived from occult or devilish leanings, I disagree as I believe most of his influences came from his musical tastes and from cover art to include the pentagram-
–The reason I brought up the WM3 case was to illustrate the harm done to all by putting all investigative and prosecution tools into one ill conceived basket hope I better explained my thoughts.
-
There are many things that we just cant know in Jessicas case Blink you are aware of more info than we mere contributors so you probably have a better grasp of the whys and what fors-
My thoughts and questions are coming from the point of view of the uninformed masses-
You have stated that you believe that Austin could very well be a sexual sadist.
Without knowing what you know I cant not go so far in my analysis-
warning graphic content-
In my research I have found the links to the study by Hazelwood you mentioned as well as this site which takes excerpts from their books etc
http://www.criminalprofiling.com/The-Criminal-Sexual-Sadist_s142.html
snipped:
Sexually sadistic offenders commit well-planned and carefully concealed crimes. Their crimes are repetitive, serious, and shocking, and they take special steps to prevent detection. The harm that these men wreak is so devastating and their techniques so sophisticated that those who attempt to apprehend and convict them must be armed with uncommon insight, extensive knowledge, and sophisticated investigative resources
—-
Blink right now I can not see where Austin Sigg committed a well planned out crime- for all we know he better fits the profile of a
Situational Child Molesters who have no true sexual preference for children, but may molest them for a wide variety of situational reasons. In many cases children may be targeted because they are weak, vulnerable, or available.
http://www.criminalprofiling.com/The-Criminal-Sexual-Sadist_s142.html
yes a sexual sadist may fall into this category – but IRT jessicas case we just cant know right now if their was torture or a need to inflict pain inorder to gain sexual gratification.
Yes it can be said after the crime AS carefully set about planting the backpack, but TMK we cant be certain at this time if that was a taunt or a diversion tactic to send LE in the opposite direction from the crime scene etc-
further snipped:
Sexual sadism is a persistent pattern of becoming sexually excited in response to another’s suffering. Granted, sexual excitement can occur at odd times even in normal people. But to the sexually sadistic offender, it is the suffering of the victim that is sexually arousing.
-
Blink I am unaware of a “persistent pattern” of AS becoming sexually excited in response to anothers suffering. How can we be certain that this is what occurred IRT little Jessica?
further snipped:
Each offender’s account confirms that it is the suffering of the victim, not the infliction of physical or psychological pain, that is sexually arousing.
Inflicting pain is a means to create suffering and to elicit the desired responses of obedience, submission, humiliation, fear, and terror. PHYSICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL SUFFERING Specific findings uncovered during an investigation determine if the crime committed involves sexual sadism.
The critical issues are whether the victim suffered, whether the suffering was intentionally elicited, and whether the suffering sexually aroused the offender.
This is why neither sexual nor cruel acts committed on an unconscious or dead victim is necessarily evidence of sexual sadism; such a victim cannot experience suffering.
For this reason, postmortem injuries alone do not indicate sexual sadism. Rapists cause their victims to suffer, but only sexual sadists intentionally inflict that suffering, whether physical or psychological, to enhance their own arousal.
Neither the severity of an offender’s cruelty nor the extent of a victim’s suffering is evidence of sexual sadism. Acts of extreme cruelty or those that cause great suffering are often performed for nonsexual purposes, even during sexual assaults.
—
So it seems that despite this crime being brutal or cruel – the categorizing it as a sexual sadistic murder would have to do with whether or not the perps sole purpose was in inflicting pain was to elicit sexual gratification-
Further snipped:
SEXUALLY SADISTIC BEHAVIOR The behavior of sexual sadists, like that of other sexual deviants, extends along a wide spectrum. Sexual sadists can be law-abiding citizens who fantasize but do not act or who fulfill these fantasies with freely consenting partners. Only when sexual sadists commit crimes do their fantasies become relevant to law enforcement.
Sadistic Fantasy All sexual acts and sexual crimes begin with fantasy. However, in contrast with normal sexual fantasies, those of the sexual sadist center on domination, control, humiliation, pain, injury, and violence, or a combination of these themes, as a means to elicit suffering. As the fantasies of the sexual sadist vary, so does the degree of violence.
The fantasies discerned from the personal records of offenders are complex, elaborate, and involve detailed scenarios that include specific methods of capture and control, location, scripts to be followed by the victim, sequence of sexual acts, and desired victim responses. Sexual sadists dwell frequently on these fantasies, which often involve multiple victims and sometimes include partners.
—
Did AS document his fantasies in this way? did he document his crime in great detail?
Did he just happen upon little Jessica or was it an elaborate planned out scenario complete with script etc?
further snipped:
Sadism Toward Symbols Some individuals act out their sadistic desires against inanimate objects, most often dolls, pictures, and clothing, but sometimes corpses.
As in the case of fantasy, the suffering in such activity is imagined.
— Is there evidence that AS had a sadism toward symbols- does he have a collection of clothes etc? ?Is his sadism fantasy only apparent after death?
further snipped:
Although it is commonly believed that sexual sadists are cruel toward animals, it has not been determined that such cruelty is related to sexual sadism. Violent men were often cruel to animals during childhood, but without sexual excitement. Cruel acts toward animals may reflect nonsexual aggressive and sadistic motives or may be sacrifices demanded by religious rituals or delusional beliefs.
—Is AS a sexual sadist or is his motivations a reflection of some sort of delusional belief added to a warped religious ritual or sacrifice?
further snipped:
BEHAVIOR PATTERNS CONFUSED WITH SEXUAL SADISM Many crimes involve the intentional infliction of physical and psychological suffering. Sexual sadism is only one of the several motives for such crimes. To avoid misinterpretation, investigators should be aware of those behavior patterns that appear to be sexually sadistic, but which, in fact, arise from different motives and contexts.
Sadistic Personality Disorder Persons with this condition usually exhibit cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior in both social and work situations, most often toward subordinates. They tend to establish dominance in interpersonal relationships and convey a lack of respect or empathy for others.
Such individuals are often fascinated by violence, take pleasure in demeaning, humiliating, and frightening others, and may enjoy inflicting physical or psychological abuse. In this condition, the purpose of these behaviors is not that of becoming aroused
then this:
“A sexual sadist,” says Hazelwood, “is an individual who is aroused by the suffering of another person. It is not the infliction of pain that’s arousing, it’s the victim’s suffering. He may use pain – physical or psychological – as a tool to elicit the suffering, but it’s the suffering that’s most important to him. One thing that’s confused with sexual sadism is cruelty committed during a crime. A lot of crimes are extremely cruel, but very few crimes are called sexual sadism. We’ve overused the term, sadism, in our society. In my opinion, sexual sadism counts for no more than 7-10% of sexual crimes committed. But the sexual sadist is the great white shark of sexual crimes. He’s the premier predator.”
Such men, Hazelwood discovered in a study of thirty sexual sadists, viciously despise women. They’re all bitches, whores, and sluts, and it’s just a matter of pushing the right buttons to bring this out, or forcing them into the position in a way that proves the point to his satisfaction.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/debardeleben/sadist_4.html
– So is AS falling closer to a sexual sadist or towards somethingelse? IDK
At certain points the profile could fit in others it seems way off Im still learning
AJMO
Peace
BLINK! You seem to be up & powered thru the storm? WOW!
Good for ya! I missed you since the 29th, no power til last night (Bergen County) and lost our house in Seaside, but hey, we are JERSEY STRONG, we will survive!!
This was the first place I visited after we submitted all our fema stuff and saw the aerials of the house, sigh! Gotta keep moving forward, we are alive! But I have been thinking about Jessica all week.
I am worried we do not know where she was dismembered… could it have been the Jeep and they are not ‘saying’ that? Or has that been ruled out? Has LE spoken to the brother (would their dna be similar)? I believe he could’ve done this himself, wrt his knife collection and his ‘studies’. Why is that hard to believe?
Also, confused by dates, my mom passed suddenly in 2008; I saw LE announce finding Caylee’s body while in her hospital room Dec 17? And I SWEAR I found your site after the ‘holidays’ (which were NOT!) that year, Jan 2009?? Saw your statement of only being here 3 years? Where the hell was I?
GLAD you came thru mama!! Thank you for all you do, your advocacy is unwavering. Off to read the comments under next two cases, and I’m STILL defrosting, hoping the kids don’t get sick! sigh, and thank you again, spoonful of sugar and all…
I am so sorry about your home loss, but glad everyone is ok, I have many friends in that situation unfortunately. I stand corrected on the date, I went live February 2009, and began writing for SM months before that in 2008.
B
Thanks for bringing the information Mom3.0. JBased on what you shared these are just a couple of things that might warrant a Sexual Sadism profile for AS:
-Austin’s youtube vids where he discusses porn which involves dungeons and bondage.
-Austin admitted to hogtying young Jessica which is particularly sadistic with no other real reason for doing so than to fulfill his own fantasy.
-Blink copied other video and audio of Austin that I have not seen but I’m sure there are other clues in those.
-If his semen was found on her bookbag or mutilated body (which we do not know the condition of) then it appears sexual gratification was had.
These are just clues and Blink has offered an idea of what might be going on. She’s said it’s loosely applied and cannot be a true diagnosis without more evidence, information, or an interview with the criminal. I’m not speaking for Blink but thought I might bring them forward to outline why this diagnosis might fit.
_____
On another topic:
I have great interest in how these conditions develop and the stages of development with an emphasis on early diagnosis and escalation prevention. Also, at what point that prevention becomes impossible. I can imagine the difficulties in doing this type of work because a child would need to have already committed certain acts for us to be aware of their condition and I would think that caregivers may not be forthright in giving the child’s history, leaving out certain abuses or behaviors.
She was sexually assaulted, so regardless of DNA their is a finding of it, ergo, this was a sexual crime and arousal and violence are both present. The only way to deduce he may ( because of the stringent markers previously discussed) be asexual sadist is to know specific autopsy information- this will have nothing to do with whether or not sperm is located on anything connected to this case as it is frequently not.
We can opine all day, but right now, no evidence exist to EXCLUDE the possibility he is a sexual sadist, as well as the possibility of one other possibility I am not prepared to present.
B
Don’t post too often.
I don’t know much about sexual sadism (never had to deal with it fortunately), but have treated people a bit with regular porno problems (it is a sexual addiction and they usually have other mental disorders that intersect with it). Unfortunately I also know about the real Satanic abuse having had to help people though this very sick and perverse control (including lots of mental control) jungle. I have also read Dan Savage’s columns (“Savage Love”) about people’s “kinks” (he would be dead set against this violence) and that is a huge eye opener to how people think, many say this same thing, with their sexual fantasies. (You can look him up online)
AS had a Dad with criminal thinking patterns obviously, AS may also have some form of mental illness coming on that allowed him to jumble all this together to produce this result, I’d be curious if there are mental problems in his family (besides Dad) and what type of boyfriend Mom picked. May be involved with a real Satanic group (they seem to be fond of double identities and are in many places) or just wannabe-teens/young people or fringe groups. A lot of the Satanic groups (from more experienced therapist friend) have mental health problems too. These guys are definitely into sacrificing, animals are common but some may be worse than others. Once people get in these groups, it is extremely difficult to get out. Major geographic move has to happen). They care about no one, though may be able to act like it sometimes to keep up the front. What a horror for this little girl. Yes, and with the kind of info that was out, she and all kids should have been watched like a hawk. I wonder if people knew about he cat that was cut in the area? That ia a big clue.
We can opine all day, but right now, no evidence exist to EXCLUDE the possibility he is a sexual sadist, as well as the possibility of one other possibility I am not prepared to present.
I know this is not a guessing game but this comment brought up some thoughts. Can this killer be a cannibal? Ergo, the refrigerated parts.
He may. I have been avoiding this topic, and will only comment that it is a possibility as it relates to this motivation for this crime.
B
What criteria must be met for cases to be sealed? Or more specifically what would cause this case to be sealed prior to arrest, obviously without specifics, but generally speaking.
The statute is L O N G . But to your point Becca, it is LIKELY due to citation of an “ongoing investigation” and the details of which should they be made public, would hinder a suspect apprehension or divulge the identity of one before an arrest- compromising the case. If the seal is sought prior to a suspect, as was in this case, it can also be relative to the inflammatory nature of the details of the crime on a potential jury pool.
As much as I HATE to say this- as a journalist, I feel everything contained in the file should be made public with very narrow exception, and at the onset of a finding this offender will faces charges in “adult” court-
The criminal analyst in me agrees with the decision to seal it. It is that bad.
B
annals, hi. I was just surmising that AS kept the head and hands to avoid dental or fingerprint identification. Getting the mtdna would be just about as fast, though, unless the dental records and prints were already at the lab.
A head and a hand are more personal than the torso. Facial recognition, hands that touch and have unique fingerprints, hair, oh this is difficult. He could have wanted to keep those pieces a family most wanted, away from them.
Or for his own recollection or body of souvenirs…i dunno, but it’s a sad, sick, steaming barrel of rage.
He may. I have been avoiding this topic, and will only comment that it is a possibility as it relates to this motivation for this crime.
B
—————–
This young man was developed somehow. Just a quiet sad shrug from me. Wishing I could give the victim’s parents consolation. It is not possible. if only…
“Acts of extreme cruelty or those that cause great suffering are often performed for nonsexual purposes, even during sexual assaults.”
Mom 3.0, I can’t tell whether you attribute this sentence to Hazelwood, but it defies meaning; it’s glossolalia.
Hey Blink! Glad y’all made it through the storm. Wondering about something…I know about his addiction to porn but wasn’t he an avid gamer? My Son is a gamer and believe me (yes, I monitor everything he does and sees)there are some TRUE weirdos who are into very strange things. Even the role playing in real life. Would love to see his gaming history! I must admit that there is an extreme amount of violence in these games and can go as far as you would not want to know about. There are even pornos made from these characters. I think his sick, blurred view of the real world lived in his virtual world. I almost don’t think CSI courses had anything to do with this case except he thought he could live out his fantasy and get away with it thinking he was smarter than most folks!
Playing what if again. There are two possibilities that relate to the removal of the head and limbs that come to mind.
The first is the death of the 25 year old woman in Georgia who went to a state park to run with her new dog. She met a guy that had been in the service or so he said that IMO was absolutely crazy. He kidnapped her and kept her in his van for several days. Then he took her to a wooded area and killed her. He decapitated her and seperated the head from the body for burial.
When they caught him, it was determined that he a previously killed a nurse in Florida while she was camping and he treated her body the same way. There was also an older couple that were found camping and he robbed and killed them in the same manner. When interviewed, the perp said he removed the heads to show them that he was in control of their life and their body.
The second is the Hannable and Silence of the lambs movies that involved a demented person who was a canible.
Teens are often attracted to things they do not understand. Could Austin or his group of friends, not his school friends, have been influenced by either of these events? Was he trying to recreat one or both of these?
ATG- I am not sure what cases you are citing, but based on your comments, I do not think that offender is similar in that I HAVE studied the motivations for mutilations, and specifically the removal of the head and burying it separately. In the cases you reference, I am feeling a sense that this offender suffered from delusions or paranoid schizo ( loose spectrum, just being conversational here) . He was thinking if he did not bury them that way, they were coming back for him.
B
this isnt my kinda case ,too dark , too much symbolism that switches ,as you try to put your finger on it ,a mind****, and i havent read any “dismembering serial killer” books.i dont like horror movies or knife collections. but i keep coming and peeking , so take my comments with a grain of salt. but , i ‘ve been wondering if ari ligget was gonna eat his mom,he had her parts in the freezer(i guess it was for smell). in 2010 he was busted at a homeless shelter ,and had potassium cynide crystals in a package ,what was he going to do with that? was he planning a mass killing , he was a chemistry student. as far as a sigg ,i wonder what age he wanted to become a mortician.his mother’s got to know when things started going strange. since asigg sexually abused her ,doesnt that mean ,he was more than likely sexually abused himself?
I have not been able to connect these 2, but I agree Liggitt needs a closer look wrt Holmes.
B
Hi,
Question ? : Do we know how this body was dismembered? I mean what parts were in the cooler at his house? This may be a factor in his diagnosis also. I raised two boys alone and they both ended up in the military and I am having a hard time with the question of, Where were these parents and how can they miss something like this in the works? I know my boys were not perfect but I would KNOW if something like this was a possibility I would think.
For quite some time, the Jeffrey Dahmer case, has been in the back of my mind. I promise – - not just now but for some time. And the more I read, that idea pops into my head. I might need a “break” after this case.
You already know what I am going to say- sorry, I wish I had better thoughts.
B
This is very difficult for me to ask but do we know what exactly was in the cooler? I’ve read in some comments different body parts, but has that information been released?
Has not and will not be prior to court.
B
Hi! I wonder at the age of AS, so young for such an offence, even with a “coach” (shudder). B, what are the chances there could be copycats, ala Columbine for example, or is this type of offense not in the realm of most other offenders? I really, really want you to say yes. This crime has sickened me, my heart aches for Jessica and her family, if ever blood spilled on the earth cried out for justice surely Jessica’s blood is crying out! Thanks. I’ve been learning a lot the past few days, interesting discussions.
My partial answer is a resounding “very unlikely” to draw a copy cat that is not a S sadist, they do not get off on other acts, with the exception if they become public they might learn something from it, but if they were able to be aroused “vicariously” they would not be acting out in the first place.
The bad news: I strongly believe this kid did not act alone, and I believe he was mentored in some way, so until that person has been established and caught, this has the potential of happening again, period.
B
*Warning: graphic (though scholarly) content
Blink wrote in response to a post on November 1 @ 11:22: “Additionally, the DA has only announced that Siggs DNA was found on the backpack, but is now facing sexual assault charges. I am not going to go into the macabre details of how that might relate to a well known sexual sadist issue, most especially if there is no DNA to tie to the assault.”
Since no one has broached the subject (and Blink, you may omit my comment if you wish based on your saying that you didn’t want to get into the details)… the following are direct quotes from an article to be cited at the end of my post:
“Sexually many [psychopathic sexual sadists]felt inferior, were often impotent, and had a rich fantasy life.”
“The sexual killers were more likely to offend when their self-esteem was low. They often planned their crimes, which frequently included killing via asphyxiation or stabbing. Physical injury to the sexual organs and engaging in violent sexual acts were not uncommon. Brittain wrote that although the sexual killer may be a model patient or prisoner, given the opportunity, he is “likely to murder again, and he knows this.”
–> The above descriptions of characteristics of sexual sadist killers, especially the likelihood of impotence, erectile disfunction or other sexual disfunctions, could be why DNA might only be tied to the backpack, and/or why the DNA found may not be from semen.
In regards to the statement in the article that sexual sadists frequently kill by asphyxiation or stabbing… As we know, it has been reported that AS killed little Jessica by asphyxiation. On a side note, I have heard/read that with Sexual Sadists, the stabbing of one’s victim can stand in for/represent penetration of the victim, especially when the killer is impotent [I have no reference to cite on this, so please correct me if this info is wrong].
I will post more excerpts from this article which presents other characteristics of sexual sadistic killers, which may fit the profile of AS.
http://www.jaapl.org/content/25/3/335.full.pdf
blackpearl, the stabbing of the victim is not a “stand in” for anything related to penetration whatsoever, and frankly, neither is actual penetration. This profile is aroused by “the infliction of pain”, the suffering of the victim and is not sexually specific inasmuch as the act produces a more severe response from the victim. I am going to be light in my comments on this- I will tell you why- while it is very helpful to post the research, empirical data and studies, the only REAL way to cover the topics is with practical case file comparative data- which I am precluded from doing in any non-public cases.
I hope everyone understands.
B
Hello Amys sister
You are welcome for the info
I think there may be some misunderstanding I am not disagreeing to the possibility that AS is a sexual sadist.I am trying to gain a better understanding of a sexual sadist.(and all aspects of this case- and I am sharing my research etc my journey in the hopes that those who read it will walkaway with a better understanding too.)
I defer to Blinks knowledge yet at the same time I feel that those who do not question do not learn.
I am trying to learn- both from Blink and from further researching- I am questioning everything- not in anyway to disrespect Blink or her knowledge base- but as a way to further my advocacy as a concerned citizen.
Just like you Amys sister, I have great interest in how these conditions develop and the stages of development emphasizing early diagnosis and escalation prevention… to include at what point that prevention becomes impossible. Not just as it pertains to a sexual sadist- as it pertains to all who have these conditions or commit atrocities.
Having said that I will share my opinion- it is only my opinion and it is now way given in attempt to sway others to my way of thinking- nor am I claiming my opinion is right and others is wrong-
I can not believe there are babies that are born evil.. if I believed that for a moment then whats the point in striving to gain a better understanding ? whats the point in trying to save a child who exhibits tendencies or has a background of abuse-or juvenile records or mental records which include markers such as bedwetting and fire starting or other emotional/behavioral problems – why not simply chalk it up to their being evil and wash our hands of them at birth or once these “markers” present themselves?
IRT a sexual sadist- right now there is no cure- only treatment and the treatments do not usually work- there needs to be more studies and more work in this area- for it has to be more than they are born evil
Perhaps the biggest hurdle is that usually SS are between the ages of 25 and 37 when they are caught and it is after a spree of torturing and killing-
Not every sexual sadist commits rape or murder- and most who recognize themselves as ss do not seek treatment because they are embarrassed and again there is no cure and part of the treatment is hormone therapy-
IF Austin Sigg is a sexual sadist then he is our next best chance at figuring this diagnosis out- and we must- for there are other Austin Siggs outthere- and even if Austin Sigg receives the harshest punishment due to Colorados laws and the supreme courts rulings he will be free again.
I do not think sending a juvenile to an adult prison is the answer nor is not requiring stringent therapy etc. I am one who tends to side with the Supreme Court on this issue- I do not think a juvenile should automatically forfeit his life nor should he remain in prison forever- BUT I think every case should be looked at separately and judged separately every offender should be evaluated periodically for review of the sentence and whether or not mental health counseling therapy etc is working then the decision should be remade as to whther or not he still remains a danger to society and the sentence should be lengthened if warranted.
Austin Sigg is 17 he is a kid- although his crimes warrant him being charged as an adult- – Austin Sigg needs to be studied we need to know what made Austin Sigg a rapist and a murderer we need to treat Austin Sigg now and forever- his earlier treatment was not enough- if he cant be cured his case can still help Doctors therapists etc So they can make sure no other Mother and father no other family has to lose their jessica- to the clutches of another Austin Sigg-
and we must not fail so no other single mother or little brother has to live with the knowledge that their loved one committed such an atrocity.
Austin Sigg will be free again… do we wash our hands of him and chalk it up to his just being born evil? or do we figure out the whys and what fors and work on better treatments on how to prevent it from happening again- not just by his hand but by those who are like Austin Sigg who are outhere waiting in the wings?
Amys Sister I appreciate you taking the time to read thru my posts and I hope we can work together to try to figure it all out-
Blink- I hope nothing I have ever wrote gave you the impression that I was trying to prove myself “right” and you “wrong”
I value your input and knowledge-
Thanks
AJMO
Peace
- Cont Part 2
Just one brief note Mom 3.0- we know Jessica was sexually assaulted, but not whether or not she was raped, while it might sound like semantics, it is definitely not from a profile perspective.
I have never for one second felt like you were trying to prove me wrong about anything- there are many perspectives to consider, and this case in particular is uber important to me as a professional- as well as an advocate and concerened parent.
Y’all are gonna start earmuffing me at this phrase, but it is true. This was preventable, not sure to what extent, but somebody and then more somebody’s missed signs, ignored signs, or other- but mark me words, they were there in spades.
You know I strongly agree that studying this boy is critical, but to be blatantly honest, I have to state that in this case, he needs to be tried as an adult, and sentenced accordingly.
Something else that is going to be unpopular with anyone in the psyche community that believes this kid is treatable- someone from that camp failed this kid, we better figure out the who and the how and I don’t mean in the presentencing report.
B
“Thirteen of the 16 cases that MacCullock et al reviewed had fantasized about their sadistic offense prior to its actuality. They often masturbated to thoughts of rape, kidnap, sodomy. bondage, whipping, torture, or fantasies of killing many times prior to committing their first actual offense. Interestingly. the mean age that these fantasies occurred was 16 years (range. 13 to 20 years old), and each subject had an increase in his masturbatory activity once his fantasies took on a sadistic content. The acting out of the
fantasy occurred less than one year after the development of the sadistic fantasy in 1l of the 13 cases. The authors proposed
that if a person begins to try out his sadistic fantasy little by little in actuality, there is a higher risk for it to progress
toward the act of killing as part of the eventual sexual act.”
p. 343, J Am Acad Psychiatry Law, Vol. 25, No. 3, 1997
http://www.jaapl.org/content/25/3/335.full.pdf
@ ATG
The Yosemite Killer(Cary Stayner) strangled his first 2 victims, attempted to sexually assault his 3rd victim but was unable to gain an erection. The next morning, just prior to slitting her throat, told her he loved her and wished he could keep her. Victim #4, that led to his capture and subsequent arrest was decapitated. He has stated that he did that to her out of anger because she fought him and tried to escape…he was captured lounging at a nudist resort.
All of that and I don’t believe, from what I have read, that even CS is/was a sexual sadist. And the beheading was out of anger(according to him), so I’m not sure anyone can/could pinpoint a “reason”, could they? [conversational...]
Premium starter fluid can be as much as 60% ether.It seems to be easy to distill (according to Google)
What I’m trying to say is he wouldn’t need to buy ether as such.
My brain is numb,my daughter died last night,losing the fight against
Leukemia. Sorry-
Peg- May God be with you, Mr. T and your baby girl. I am so sorry for your loss.
B
Slowroller
The case you refer to is not the one I was describing. The Yosemite killer had been kidnapped by a sexual predator when he was a youth. He was kept for several years. He managed to escape when the predator kidnapped another youth and together they were able to overpower the predator and escape.
He lived with is family for several years always doing strange things before he got the job at the resort. His sisters said that he would verbaly assault them about strange sexual desires, but they didn’t take it serously. The final trigger to make him go on his killing spree is not know to me.
The human mind is complex and we have only begun to understand its activities. We are a product of our heredity and our environment. We cannot change heredity, but our environment is changable.
I believe that each person is exposed to good and evil within their environment. I also believe until proven otherwise, that those with good genes are capable of knowing good and bad behavior and making choices for themselves. Those with damaged genes may not have that ability. This has not been proven by studies at this point in time.
There are plenty of people who want to help our “out of sinc’ people lead a better life. The only way is to study them. The major problem is identifying markers that lead to these bad acts. This is caused by the fact that each of us are unique and able to make choices. We can only generally classify behaviors.
The only perp in this case to date is Austin Siggs. He didn’t get that way by himself and he may not be the only person involved in Jessica’s death. With the court information sealed, we will not know until trial unless he confesses to anothers help prior to trial.
Our present society has devolved into one that does not demand good behavior from children. Children at an early age are no different than little animals. They must be trained. Unfortunately, children do not come with an “owners manual”. Parents must be loving and smart enough to guide children in the right path. Some parents can do this effectively, but others cannot.
The community in my generation demanded good and acceptable behavior
from all children. Even then, there were those that would not abide by the rules. Unrully children grow into unrully teens and adults. They cause problems for society at every level.
ATG, just a quick note of reference, it was his brother who was the kidnapping victim. Makes the whole scene all the more strange. Chicken or Egg scenario, if one were to distill it.
B
(FOLLOWING CASE STUDY IS GRAPHIC AND NOT INTENDED FOR UNDERAGE VIEWERS OR ANY PERSON WHO MAY FIND RESEARCH CASE REVIEW OBJECTIONABLE- BLINK)
Hi, not sure if this counts as case file comparative data, but the article I was referencing includes several “case presentations” and one in particular stood out to me… [please don't post if you think it's off base or not worthwhile]
(page 337)
Case 2:
S. was a 16-year-old white male who was referred [to the authors of the article] by a concerned social worker after he had admitted to multiple animal killings. He gained an interest in dissecting animals following a worm dissection exercise in his sixth grade science class. In the eighth grade, he stole a fetal pig from his biology class and dissected it on his own. He became curious about the textures of the animal tissues, tasted parts of it, and recalled becoming sexually excited by the dissection. S. volunteered at an emergency room near his house where he eventually asked to witness a human autopsy, but this experience was denied him. He had a juvenile court history including shoplifting and runaway.
S. tested at an above-average IQ of 125, although he did relatively poorly in school. He abused alcohol, sleeping pills, and marijuana when he became a teenager.
At the age of 15, S. began to kill animals. First, he killed a cat, and went on to kill rabbits, birds, dogs, ducks, and other cats. He usually killed via strangulation or stabbing. The animals skulls were prepared and proudly mounted as trophies in his bedroom. On one occasion, he became sexually excited while killing an animal and placed his erect penis inside the open wound of the animal and masturbated.
S. admitted to fantasies of killing humans including recurrent thoughts of rape ending in strangulation, necrophilia, and body mutilation. He fantasized about keeping the sexual organs and skulls as trophies. He also described other sexually sadistic fantasies that always ended in death. Additional paraphilic fantasies included voyeurism, exhibitionism. urophilia, fetishistic cross dressing, frotteurism, and bestiality. He had a long history of masturbation to pornographic materials.
Finally, S. had a long history of mild depression, and vague paranoid delusions and described occasionally hearing ill-defined voices.
http://www.jaapl.org/content/25/3/335.full.pdf
Put a disclaimer at the top.
B
Blink,
Hope you don’t mind me bringing this over,,,,
Re: Rebekah Jane Gay 24yr, last seen 31/10/2012, Mount Pleasant MI (BODY FOUND)
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=13700.40
may seem o/t ,but definately a great resemblence to the JR case.
I commented on it there, but White is a repeat offender, and not a sadist, he is his own brand.
B
Terribly sorry to all for forgetting to include a warning at the top of my last post– I hope no one read it before Blink added the warning (and thanks to Blink for doing so).
Portions of the information in my last post, a description of an adolescent who was either a sexually sadistic killer or was thought to be on that path (and quoted from an article I was reading), struck me as having similarities to reports that we’ve heard about AS and/or rumors/conjecture. For example, the possibility that AS could have been responsible for the killing and bi-section of a neighbor’s cat– the teen in the article had killed several pets and other animals. There was also a post a while back about 2 dismembered dogs in the Denver area, though at this time these incidents/crimes have not been connected to AS. Also saw parallels between the subjects’s interest in witnessing an autposy and AS’s interest in mortuary science.
Just trying to offer a better understanding of how one of these twisted individuals operates/pushes his boundaries. I haven’t finished the article yet bc I’ve been reading in bits and pieces but will report if there are any good thoughts on how these monsters are “created” or “developed”.
Finally, reading the description of the teen offender in the article made me really feel strongly that there had to have been numerous indicators that– as Blink has said– parents, social workers, or psych professionals missed, ignored, or neglected to follow up on in regards to AS’s “development” as a murderer. Ugh.
Cont Part 2
Sorry for the delay-
please excuse the length
Amys sister you wrote;
Based on what you shared these are just a couple of things that might warrant a Sexual Sadism profile for AS:
-Austin’s youtube vids where he discusses porn which involves dungeons and bondage.
-Austin admitted to hogtying young Jessica which is particularly sadistic with no other real reason for doing so than to fulfill his own fantasy.
Hi, yes Amys sister- these could fit into the profile of a sexual sadist- but they also can fit into an # of other offender profiles
even according to the counts we cant be certain through their wording alone what profile the crimes most likely fit-
Several of the 17 criminal counts brought against- Austin Sigg :
COUNT 2: Murder In the First degree: [murder during the commission of a kidnapping] “On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully and feloniously, acting alone, committed kidnapping, and in the course of or in the furtherance of that crime, caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway, not a participant in the crime;”
—It reads that AS acted alone and kidnapped Jessica and in the course or furtherance of that crime caused the death of Jessica
It does not read that he kidnapped her to torture and kill her- although it could mean that his sole purpose could have been to sexually assault her
COUNT 4: Murder In the First Degree: [murder during the commission of a sexual assault] “On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully and feloniously, acting alone, committed sexual assault, and in the course of or in furtherance of that crime, caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway, not a participant in the crime;”
–It reads AS acted alone and committed sexual assault & murder during the commission of a sexual assault and in the course or furtherance of that crime caused the death of Jessica
It reads as though AS sole intent was to sexual assault Jessica not torture her or kill her- although it could mean that
COUNT 6: Crime of Violence: [sentence enhancer for kidnapping charges due to related first degree murder offenses] “On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG, during the commission of the offense of Second Degree Kidnapping, as charged in count five, unlawfully caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway, a person not a participant in the crime;”
–It reads AS crime of violence was committed during the commission of the crime of kidnapping
I realize these are worded this way for many reasons not the least of which is to bring as many counts felonious counts as possible but they way they read leaves it open to much interpretation
COUNT 8: Crime of Violence: [sentence enhancer for second degree offenses] “On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG, during the commission of the offense of Second Degree Kidnapping, as charged in count seven, unlawfully caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway, a person not a participant in the crime;”–
–it reads for enhancers of second degree offenses during the kidnapping he caused the death of Jessica through violence it does not read that he inflicted violence inorder to cause suffering
COUNT 9: Sexual Assault On a Child: [aggravated by age disparities between victim and aggressor] “On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully, feloniously, and knowingly subjected Jessica Ridgeway, not his spouse, to sexual contact, and the victim was less than fifteen years of age and the defendant was at least four years older than the victim. Further, the defendant applied force against the victim in order to accomplish or facilitate sexual contact;”
It reads that AS sexually assualted Jessica Ridgeway a child and Further, the defendant applied force against the victim in order to accomplish or facilitate sexual contact;”
It does not read that AS used force to facilitate suffering but to facilitate sexual contact
COUNT 10: Crime of Violence: [sentence enhancer for sexual assault on a minor due to resulting injury/death]; On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG, during the commission of the unlawful sexual offense of Sexual Assault On a Child, as charged in count nine, unlawfully caused bodily injury to Jessica Ridgeway;”
it reads that AS caused bodily injury to Jessica during the commission of sexual assault
this could be that his sole purpose was not to torture and thereby gain sexual gratification through her suffering but the bodily injury however horrendous was done inorder to sexually assault her or could have happened after death- uncertain
COUNT 1: Murder In the First Degree: [intentional and premeditated homicide] “On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully, feloniously, after deliberation, and with an intent to cause the death of a person other than himself, caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway;”
It reads that AS killed Jessica with premeditation and intent-this premeditation and intent could have occurred instantaneously after the sexual assault and bodily injury- or it could have been before he kidnapped her-
Sigg was also charged with crimes of violence against the jogger:
COUNT 17: Crime of Violence: [sentence enhancer for attempted second degree kidnapping of same female jogger at same location on same date] “On or about May 28, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully used, or possessed and threatened the use of, a deadly weapon, namely: a chemical mixture, during the commission of, attempted commission of, the offense of Attempted Second Degree Kidnapping, as charged
COUNT 15: Crime of Violence: [sentence enhancer for attempted sexual assault of same female jogger at same location on same date] “On or about May 28, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG, during the commission of the unlawful sexual offense of Attempted Sexual Assault, as charged [ ] unlawfully used threat, intimidation, or force against Ketner Reservoir jogger;”
No weapon no threat-was mentioned in the counts regarding Jessica- why not?This could mean nothing but it could also mean none were used
My point is in just reading the counts we can not be certain if AS fits the profile of a sexual sadist or not-I realize these are worded this way for many reasons not the least of which to bring as many felonious counts as possible but the way they read leaves it open to interpretation
Amy you wrote:
-Blink copied other video and audio of Austin that I have not seen but I’m sure there are other clues in those.
-If his semen was found on her bookbag or mutilated body (which we do not know the condition of) then it appears sexual gratification was had.
These are just clues and Blink has offered an idea of what might be going on. She’s said it’s loosely applied and cannot be a true diagnosis without more evidence, information, or an interview with the criminal. I’m not speaking for Blink but thought I might bring them forward to outline why this diagnosis might fit.
Thank you Amys sis for trying to help me to gain a better understanding of Blink and the whys of a possible diagnossi of AS as a SSadist
Yes Amys sister I do agree that these are clues but these clues so far could fit into a # of offender profiles /diagnosis including SS
I agree with you and Blink without knowing more we just cant tell we are all in the dark
So far in my research and through Blinks mentoring and others posts I have learned:
In the diagnosis of a sexual sadist it matters not if there was climax what determines the issue- essentially is whether or not gratification came from watching the suffering or agony not whether there was suffering or agony or “release” As Blink wrote there are stringent markers, and rape is not one of them- nor is “release” nor is achieving an erection-
Again its basically whether or not they are gratified by the agony or by the torment.
“The essential feature of sexual sadism is not in the feeling of sexual excitement resulting from the infliction of true pain on the victim, but rather it is from witnessing his or her suffering”
http://www.officer.com/article/10233107/the-sexual-sadist
Thanks for taking the time to respond to me Amys sister and for your willingness to help I agree AS COULD be a SS
Blink in your response to me you wrote”"
“Just one brief note Mom 3.0- we know Jessica was sexually assaulted, but not whether or not she was raped, while it might sound like semantics, it is definitely not from a profile perspective.”
Point well taken Blink thank you so much for pointing that mistake out- as I was aware of the distinctions- and somehow I still wrote it wrong-
Definitely not just semantics at all-
“I have never for one second felt like you were trying to prove me wrong about anything- there are many perspectives to consider, and this case in particular is uber important to me as a professional- as well as an advocate and concerened parent.”
Thanks Blink I appreciate your saying that and I also appreciate the chance you give us to share our thoughts and weigh all perspectives-
“Y’all are gonna start earmuffing me at this phrase, but it is true. This was preventable, not sure to what extent, but somebody and then more somebody’s missed signs, ignored signs, or other- but mark me words, they were there in spades.”
I agree there were signs and no you have not belabored that point- I just dont know if the signs that without the gift of hindsight were flashing bright enough to alert friends family teachers and Drs to the reality they were at Defcon1 when it came to Austin
“You know I strongly agree that studying this boy is critical, but to be blatantly honest, I have to state that in this case, he needs to be tried as an adult, and sentenced accordingly.”
Again I agree I do think Austins crimes demand that he be tried as an adult- and the punishment should be
onerous. I just think that even though he is tried as an adult that no way means he should be in prison with adult offenders especially not without stringent mental health therapies etc-
“Something else that is going to be unpopular with anyone in the psyche community that believes this kid is treatable- someone from that camp failed this kid, we better figure out the who and the how and I don’t mean in the presentencing report.”
YES YES YES I agree indubitably for his family his Momma did see some signs and she wanted to help her child and she sent him for help and whomever conducted his”therapy” either did not recognize his problem was just a symptom of something bigger or they just didnt do their best to follow through – regardless they failed in helping AS and they failed his mother and they failed Jessica and they failed the community-
Like you I do believe this was preventable and the first step at prevention is taking him to counseling and then its the duty of the counselor to then recognize and follow up and ultimately it IS that camp that failed and yes we had better find a way to figure out how and why and work to fix it-
AJMO
Peace
Just another thought that has been bugging me for a while now in regards to AS… There is a mortuary science program at the community college in my area. There was a newspaper article about the program a few years ago. The article made it seem like there weren’t many programs in our area… but the article also communicated that a lot of people in this particular program were middle aged and/or switching career paths. People interviewed for the article seemed very compassionate and very focused on being in a position to help families through a very difficult experience. I never ever thought that bad, sick people would get into programs like this for all the wrong reasons– naive of me, I’m sure. I just feel so disappointed because I had looked at the profession as being very noble– and still do, though now I feel like I was sucker punched.
Does anyone know if professors of mortuary science, anatomy classes, or similar courses– even high school bio teachers– receive any specialized training to enable them to more easily ascertain someone’s motives for being in such a class/program or whether they might be sick/off/have major psych issues, or what type of reactions/comments/etc. one might consider red flags? Even though this alone wouldn’t necessarily identify the weirdos, it seems like an obvious place to be on high alert and a place to at least start.
correction**
Should have read:
In the diagnosis of a sexual sadist it matters not if there was climax what determines the issue- essentially is whether or not gratification came from watching the suffering and agony not whether there** was violence or cruelty that caused pain and suffering** There need not be “release” As Blink wrote there are stringent markers, and rape is not one of them- nor is “release” nor is even achieving an erection-
My apologies
Jane Banks I am so sorry to read of your home loss- happy to know you and your children are okay. keep safe warm and healthy my thoughts and prayers are with you and all who were in Sandys path.
Dear Peg-
I am very sorry to read of your daughters battle and of her passing So sorry Peg -My sincere condolences and prayers to you and thank you for sharing that important info on starter fluid.
I know its not much but just wanted to let you know every time I read your name Peg I start singing Peg by Steely Dan- it brightens my day so thanks
Peg, it will come back to you…
Peace love and strength
sorry for being a board hog still trying to catch up-
annals says:
November 4, 2012 at 9:47 pm
“Acts of extreme cruelty or those that cause great suffering are often performed for nonsexual purposes, even during sexual assaults.”
Mom 3.0, I can’t tell whether you attribute this sentence to Hazelwood, but it defies meaning; it’s glossolalia.
–
Hello annals always good to see you and read your thoughts-
glossolalia GREAT word!
The snip to which you are refering was taken from an article which highlights the 1992 FBI bulletin of Robert R. Hazelwood, M.S. Park Elliott Dietz, M.D. Janet Warren, D.S.W.
http://www.criminalprofiling.com/The-Criminal-Sexual-Sadist_s142.html
I assure you none were talking in tongues nor is it meaningless speech-
I think it underscores the complexity of recognizing and diagnosing and explaining an offender as a sexual sadist.
here is the snip in its entirety:
“Neither the severity of an offender’s cruelty nor the extent of a victim’s suffering is evidence of sexual sadism. Acts of extreme cruelty or those that cause great suffering are often performed for nonsexual purposes, even during sexual assaults..”
Let me try to explain- if a Person is bound or beat it is cruel and intentional but may be done for other reasons than to cause pain or discomfort or to fulfill a sexual fantasy and to sexual sadist the infliction of pain is only the means to illicit the needed response of agony
In other words They dont get off on the infliction of pain they get off on the agony it produces.
also there are group think scenarios where in the commission of crimes such as rape the offenders one up each other in severity of acts this would be other than inflicting pain to illicit the needed response of agony which a sexual sadist thrives upon/
annals I know I am not explaining it very well but if you read the link in its entirety complete with case studies it does explain the differences
Sorry I couldnt help more it is a very hard diagnosis to explain or so I am learning its very complex not easily articulated by me -and it would seem by your thoughts not by the experts either …
AJMO
Peace
Black Pearl
Thanks for the case summary and thanks to Blink for allowing us to read it.
I have spent several hours with my friend who is the DA of Harris county discussing the types of criminals she saw as a judge and as a DA. She came to the conclusion that many of them had an IQ above the norm. They were smart in a lot of ways, but there was always something that made them different in their behavior with society. They just didn’t conform to what one would call normal. What was the cause? She didn’t know.
There has to be something that we have not yet found in behavior that leads someone to having a sexual arousal from the death of a living thing, human or animal. My only thought is that an immature mind is unable to understand certain kinds of events and reacts to them in a way that is out of sync with society. Then we have to try and figure out the difference between a mature mind and one that is not.
It is believed that the human brain doesn’t stop developing until the age of 25 yrs. old. Hence the Supreme Court ruling in regards to the death penalty and teens committing so-called heinous adult crimes. Once the brain is fully developed, does that make for a brain that can manifest a pathologically MORE devious or sadistic, or one that can overcome those impulses and compulsions to commit such crimes as discussed above? Some believe that with therapy, the mind can turn itself around at least to a better understanding of what makes one tic so the compulsions can be controlled to a certain degree. Even in a controlled environment such as prison however, those afflicted with an underlying manifestation of psychopathy do not seek therapy and many don’t respond to therapy anyway. And is the therapy offered intensive enough to turn a person around? I think too many escape the cracks in the system and when released, they re-offend – worse than when they were younger and experimenting. JMO and what I’ve seen in the criminal justice system. In other words, if the DP is NOT an option, this degree of pathology is not treatable and they should be locked away for the rest of their lives. Again – not a professional opinion (as I am not in the field of psychology or psychiatry) – just an opinion based on experience of years in the criminal justice system and the what I’ve seen. Most re-offenders escalate in their crimes.
There are better places for the offenders such as what we are speaking of here on this site. A better placement would be a prison for the ‘criminally insane’. It is the only way to protect society from this dark pathology.
On my above statement at 11:36 am I wrote a sentence that should read: Once the brain is fully developed, does that make for a brain that can manifest a pathologically MORE warped or sadistic mind-set, or one that can overcome impulses and compulsions to commit such crimes as discussed above?