The Face of Evil In Newtown Connecticut Elementary Massacre: Adam Lanza Death Toll At 28
Newtown, CT- At approximately 9:40 this morning twenty year old Adam Lanza walked into Sandy Hook Elementary school in Newtown, CT. Lanza With a Glock in one hand and a Sig Sauer in the other he locked-down a classroom of terrified students and by the time it was over had savagely murdered 20 children. Adam Lanza has no criminal record.
He was also in the possession of a semi automatic rifle, believed to be responsible for the majority of the mortal wounds.
At press time, their is one known injured adult survivor.
Parents were alerted of an emergency via text message and all access point to the school were clogged with hysterical parents and family members desperate for information about their sons and daughters.
The scene reduced hardened SWAT members and emergency responders to open sobs- As it almost did during President Obama’s press conference on it earlier this evening.
A parent attending a meeting with the principal and school psychologist, both of which are believed to be among the victims, called 911 from under a desk.
Taken into custody this afternoon was Adam’s older brother Ryan who is currently being questioned in Hoboken, NJ.
It is believed Adam was carrying his older brother’s identification which led to early erroneous reports that Ryan was the shooter.
Peter Lanza, Father and former husband of the late Nancy Lanza was alerted to the tragedy and questioned near his home in Stamford, CT. Mr. Lanza is a Tax Strategist executive for a division of General Electric.
Two 9 millimeter semi-automatic weapons registered to Adam’s Mother Nancy- a former teacher or volunteer at Sandy Hook who has also been found deceased at the pair’s Yogananda St residence were found with Lanza’s remains.
Adam Lanza ia believed to have taken his life at the scene and early reports suggest no law enforcement officers discharged firearms at the scene.
Lanza was dressed in black and wearing a bullet proof vest.
Today’s mass shooting is the second largest in US history after the Virginia Tech massacre, killing 32 college students.
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Eloise and Whaazupwitchu,
Regarding availability of mental health care, I know what you mean. And I think population density has something to do with it, too. New Hampshire has very few psychiatrists, but then there are waiting lists for general practitioners, too. NH has a low population and everyone’s spread out.
But you’re right Whaazupwitchu, Nancy Lanza, in Fairfield County, CT, would have an abundance of psychiatrists to choose from. Also, there are schools here specifically for children with autism. And yes, no doubt she had excellent insurance and other resources, too.
just tapping the brake here all- we do not know the extent and content of Lanza’s care.
B
Whaazupwitchu says:
December 17, 2012 at 11:05 pm
“There are thousands of people in every state doing pretty well on meds. And yes, the situation is getting worse, more severe problems happening earlier on.”
_______________________________________________________________________
Whaazupwitchu, why are more severe problems happening earlier on?
After reading comments and listening to CNN, Dr. Drew, researching on the net, I’ve come to form some ‘ideas’. I don’t want to make conclusions since the investigation is in the primary stages, and we’ve yet to learn about the gunman and his life.
I can tell you, for certain, this is not an Asperger’s related crime. My son has a friend with this condition. I accept Dr. Sanja Gupta’s opinion, whom I regard as an intelligent and reliable medical expert. He specically reseached this condition with mass shootings. He could only find 3 cases out of 130(approx, where the perp had Asperger’s. Most are high functioning and are capable of learning to be independent and self sufficient. I don’t blame this on AS, personally. If the mother of my son’s friend has not told me he had AS, I’d be none the wiser. I would have simply thought him to be a little more articulate and serious for his age.
I’d like to know if the gunman watched violent programs, played violent video games, etc. Of course, the mother being an avid gun collector is a factor, somehow. My husband is a hunter. He is teaching my son archery and shooting (at proper facilities). HOWEVER, he will not be using that gun until we know he is of the mind set to handle it with due care and attention.
I’m wondering if the gunman’s mother taught him a passion she simply wanted to share with him? The question comes to mind…did she consider her son’s Asperger’s and his ability to understand the ‘power’ of the weapon? Did she make an informed decision before taking her son to a shooting range? We teach out children no more than what we believe they can handle. Mentally, could the gunman handle the responsibility of handling a gun? IMHO, a bad decsion was made. I hope those questions are answered somewhere along the line. I know it will cause my husband and I to rethink our decision about our son handling a gun. Hunting up here is like hockey. So many children, boys and girls, are avid hunters. Personally, I know my family needs to reassess our reasons for allowing our son to learn how to shoot, at his age….and we’re going to take our time.
Assault guns. WHO NEEDS THEM? That’s my issue. They’re killing machines designed to destroy many, efficiently. War guns is what they are. Why would this woman have or need an assault gun? A BUSHMASTER! (almost typed bushamster). Did she have them properly stored?
Dr. Drew made an enlightening comment which I found helpful in understanding why it’s young men who inflict mass destruction. First, men are more agressive, naturally. Second, between the ages of 18- 25 are the ages, in men, when a mental or personality disorder can develop. It’s a vulnerable timeline for young men. I never knew this! I knew about pre teens / teens going through another brain growth spurt that affects the frontal lobe of the brain…the ‘reason and logic’ part of the brain. MAKES SENSE! I’m interested in learning if there are medical records or docs that will help us understand the gunman’s state of mind.
Having Asperger’s did make the gunman more vulnerable. I understand he was moved around from school to school (CNN). I understand he attended college @ 17 b/c it seemed to be a safer environment for him. I speculate he did experience some form of bullying. As the news comes in, the info keeps changing. I’m hesitant to buy into anything until the facts are known.
I do hope something is done about assault weapons. No civilian needs them. There is no logical reason to be in possession of one, other than to commit crime.
Lovin on Newton, CT!
1. I hope it is ok to say that I read bus-hamster and I laughed the laugh I have needed for days. Even twenty seconds of a break is sometimes better than I can manage on my own. I thank you friendLY.
2. Agreed on the “AR” , but for me this issue extends to any accessible firearms in the home of an individual with a diagnosis of this man. And he was a twenty year old man.
B
QUOTE
I should also note that many times scripts stop working effectively for a multitude of reasons and need very strict monitoring. Basically, once we get to an adult, that individual who is unstable to beging with, is now in charge of their own medicinal prep and administration and that can be a huge problem. – Blink
UNQUOTE
True! If on them for long periods of time, the body can develop a resistance. Dosages go up. New meds are introduced. It is always trial and error, until dr./ patient find a successful treatment. Then, ya pray it lasts. Not that dear friendLY needed my validation.
Mental health and illness will never truly be understood or grasped by anyone who’s never experienced it. It is a cruel disease in that it’s misunderstood and thought to be a flaw in one’s character. It affects people differently. Since that’s the case, understanding it, treating it and determining if it makes the subject culpable, will always be met with mixed reactions. It’s something a person who has it, has to accept. It comes down to doing what’s right for you, treating it in a way that allows you to function and/or have some kind of life. It’s a guilt ridden disease, for the subject. It makes the patient vulnerable to judgement and criticism of his/her family, peers and colleagues. I can almost guarantee, there will be no amazing revelation about the gunman’s state of mind, that will satisfy the professionals and general population. I highly doubt anything new will be learned that can change how we view mental illness and how it’s treated. It’s simply too complex and unpredictable.
Just another humble, most likely invisible post. It changes nothing.
Merry Christmas to my BOC family. Thanks for accepting me, as me. xo
B,
That was my intent and I’m grateful you got it. I LOL’d and as you know, I often type what I’m thinking. Very happy you had that much needed LOL. Laughing is soul medicine and I always wish to get that across in my posts. I usually fail. I’m ok with that
Simply….thank you for sharing with me.
Next, I believe we are on the exact page where guns and mental health are concerned. I tread on egg shells since this is a terribly sensitive subject, at this point. The last thing I’d want to do is storm onto BOC, lay down my opinion like it’s the living word of God and hold no regard for the hearts that make up BOC…and anyone who’s lost a child or loved one, due to violence.
I do believe we know the gunman was not of sound mind to be in possession or have access to guns. 28 reasons, period.
My exact thoughts and the proof is in how things work in my country- thanks ragdoll!! many other things can be blamed but it comes down to why and who has access to weapons that are sooo destructive!!!! bottom line for me!!!
I have worked with several people that have Autism, Asperger’s and other mental health issues all to varying levels.
Not to generalize but most if not all people with Autistic and Asperger’s get easily fixated on something that is part of the diagnosis.
I am wondering what Adam’s level of maturity was? Even though his IQ was quite high which does not reflect maturity level. I suspect that the elementary school is where Adam felt comfortable at that level.
IMO, I feel that Adam became fixated on the mall shooting reported on t.v. then something set him off (such as his computer crashed or something on his computer – basing off reports that FBI found his computer smashed to bits), he was comfortable with guns (no fears), and set off to the school he was most familiar and comfortable with based on his maturity level, the only place he would feel superior.
All is MOO.
Respectfully, way too early for for those conclusions- I fear it cuts the learning short on this, and we ALL better not think we have this wrapped up- I know I do not.
B
I should also note that many times scripts stop working effectively for a multitude of reasons and need very strict monitoring. Basically, once we get to an adult, that individual who is unstable to beging with, is now in charge of their own medicinal prep and administration and that can be a huge problem. – Blink
*****
I have a child with very mild Aspersers…she just turned 21. She is the light of my life…I took her out of public school in the middle of 5th grade because the school just did not get it. There was mild bullying beginning and they were not equipped to deal with it. Thank the lord I had the resources to find a school for her that could help her at that time. I was able to put her back in the public system when she reached high school. I have to admit I did that because the public system had so much more in the way of social activities than the private school did and since I was dealing with a child with social problems she ..needed.. at that time a chance to deal with real life social inter-action. Thanks to the previous school and to a wonderful child therapist she did very well in high school. She is in college now, living on her own, and though we have had some issues (most related to her control of her medication) she continues to blossom into what I am sure will be a loving and giving adult.
I have spent years saying “did you take your medication?” to the point that she “hates” her medication. I cry sometimes because I think these are going to be the words she will think about after I am dead. It is really tough on a Mom. The problem with these medications is that if you stop taking them you do not just go back to where you would be if you had never taken them, you drop to a level far below that. Climbing back can be horrible. We lost a semester at school because of it. We are back on track now but I live in fear that it will happen again. My own husband whispered to me last night “did you know that boy had Aspersers?” I wanted to smack him, I think because he felt he had to whisper it. Are other people that know my daughter suffers from this going to look at her as if she could do something like this? She could never do anything like that but I am so afraid of the stigma that could arise.
Ode- I think words may fail me to address your post because I am hyper-sensitive to the fact I do not have first hand experience of those challenges as a parent. I assimilate immediately- and I feel like doing so might be construed as not-engaged or disrespectful on a personal level.
I have professional experience, albeit limited to criminalist work, but I know there is no comparison.
I am in awe of the ability of do many of you to share this. I am reduced to moderation on this topic, and of course, student.
B
@Ragdoll- mental illness is seen as a stigma by so many because it affects behavior. So much of what people with a mental illness experience and exhibit is outside society’s definition of “normal” or “acceptable”.
I know this firsthand. It’s as debilitating as any chronic physical disease and can be so difficult to diagnose and treat.
I never allowed a gun in my home till this year. I was terrified of them. But when my husband and son wanted to buy rifles, I decided to learn to shoot. We’re not hunters, merely target shooters.
My fear came from my brother’s murder, shot with a M-16 rifle. He was in the army and killed by one of his own soldiers on base during morning formation. The man who shot him was in the process of being discharged for mental reasons.
The man didn’t have access to the M-16. He broke into an MP’s room and stole it. This happened Nov 10,1985. An investigation into my brother’s death thankfully brought about several changes to weapons security at that base.
Mental health is an important factor in many daily decisions. I just don’t know how to even begin to monitor that.
I’m a huge Constitution fan. I served 20 yrs in the USAF to protect the rights handed down to us. So I get nervous every time someone starts talking banning anything.
Right now my heart is broken for the Sandy Hook victims and families, friends, the Lanzas, the town and the nation.
And I commend you and your husband for being the absolutely best most responsible and loving parents y’all obviously are.
While watching the news of the Sandy Elementary killings with a stranger, a 70ish man who identified himself as a former computer teacher, he spoke that specifically, boys, needed to get off their computers. He attibuted much of todays violence to computer games and a lack of male socialization.
From a man, an “old,” man, a former teacher.
very interesting “call of duty ” discussion here ,AND before the shooting. http://childrenshospitalblog.org/my-son-wants-call-of-duty-but-how-do-these-video-games-impact-teen-boys/ ,boy oh boy adam’s momoa bought guns to match the game. wonder if she played with him. notice in the docs description , he claims getting shot in the head ,is a goal of the game , shooting injured people, as they crawl away is a goal of the game. interesting comments on both of the articles .
ABC News reported that Adam Lanza had an altercation at Sandy Hook school the day before the tragedy. It’s another one of those stories that may be accurate and may not be. If it’s true then it might shed light on why he chose to go to the elementary school.
in the comments of the article link in my last post ,is this one :Soccer Mom
I am a cautious mother and I do let my son play Modern Warfare 2. It is the only Mature rated game he plays. I believe it does depend on the individual.
I ahve got to say I am more concerned about what he is exposed to at public school. He just came home today and was talking about a short story his class has read, it was about a man who murdered his Mom and was accused of burying her in his backyard. That disturbs me.
There are so many things he tells me thta go on at school that are appauling… This fall another child threatened to kill my son with a gun… The reason being that they were hoeseplaying and my son told the boy to keep his hands to himself… The other boys behavior escalated from there, he beat my son up. My son did fight back and therefore scared to tell a teacher… It has been engrained his mind since Kindergarten that if you tell you are a tattletail.. We did file a complaint and the other boy was suspended. But it still happened….
Even the way teachers, not all, but some, treat boys horribly. They just can’t seem to handle the fact that boys are silly and need movement. Thankfully my son talks to me and I am aware of his struggles at school, unfortunetly my son is only one boy in the school system… By the way we live in a small city in Maine. As a parent I know what my son is doing, we spend a ton of time together as a family, my husband and I attend every baseball, basketball, and soccer practice and game, my son knows he is loved and we teach him to love himself as well as other people… I am personally more concerned about the negative effects of his experiences in public school than I am by him playing a war game a few hours a week!!!!!!——————————-i could imagine that this was written by nancy herself.
The people of the USA are in general kind and loving except for the small percentage of a criminal element. We will take and take bad situations until some point and then take the steps necessary to make corrections. It is usually an event such as this that triggers the changes.
The changes that need to be made are broad. There are plenty of reasons to remove real assault weapons from the general population. The AR-15 can be configured as fully automatic (not allowed to be sold to the public) or semi-automatic. A semi-automatic weapon is one in which the trigger must be pulled for each shot. The AR-15 in semi-automatic mode is usefull as a hunting gun or for home protection.
Weapons of all types are used in events of this type. Adam had on his person a Glock 10mm and a Sig-Sour 9mm pistol according to the police. Both are quality guns and both are used by various LE agencies. I doubt the 10mm description for the Glock. It was more likely a 40 cal. The Sig-Sour can be purchase with a double-stack 9mm magazine. That means the gun can fire 17 rounds from a single magazine that is contained within the grip area of the gun. My oldest daughter uses this configuration for her carry gun.
None of my children have children with mental problems. They all have guns in the home and they are kept in locked storage when not on their person or taken out for practice. This is good stewardship of their right to bear arms.
I have a former music student that has major problems. His grandmother is a registered nurse. I no longer teach him as he has reached the stage where he has difficulty in social situations. This problem made itself manifest at age 14. He is now 19. His mother is a primary grade school teacher. She removed him from school and placed him in a facility for 6 months so that the doctors could work to find a proper medication and to balance it. It took far longer than the six months to accomplish this balance according to the grandmother.
IMO there are several areas that need to be addressed to make our schools a safer place. Access to guns and large knives for those who are mentally unstable are certainly an area of concern. A method of constant vigilence for those who are impaired. This means educating the general public and removing the stigma from families and those who are impaired. A new approach to building safety and a new process for the so called “lock down”.
Mom3.0 says:
December 17, 2012 at 10:15 pm
Mom3.0, you said, “The latest is that she bought the guns in 2010 or later….” and you referred to a “Daily Mail” article that Gigi posted.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2249185/Nancy-Lanza-Did-paranoid-gun-crazed-mother-trigger-Sandy-Hook-Connecticut-killing-spree.html
One of you questioned the accuracy of the article.
There has been a lot of speculation about Nancy Lanza and why she had guns in her home.
I don’t think this article is at all accurate. It’s from one of the U.K. newspapers that remember, are very similar to our National Enquirer. Their job is to upset people and factual reporting is the last thing they consider. They have a long, nasty history of this type of reporting. But their story about this tragedy is out there now. And I’d just like to say that we don’t know what was going through Nancy Lanza’s mind, but I’m trying to put myself in her shoes, and I just don’t think she was gun-crazed or paranoid, or a survivalist or anything like that. She wasn’t that type for one thing.
I wonder if she had the guns simply for protection. To protect herself, her son, and her home. We had another horrendous crime here in Connecticut in 2007, the Cheshire home invasion. I know that it deeply affected me and my sense of safety. I know that everyone I know, men and women, all ages, were extremely bothered by that crime. The sales of guns went way up. If you’re right Mom3.0, that she bought the guns in 2010, then I think she bought them simply for self protection. If she had never owned guns before, but she got divorced in 2009, and there she was, a woman without a man in the house, and at her age all of a sudden she bought guns, well, she wasn’t unusual in Connecticut. The trials were going on in those years and facts about the case were coming out. I suspect most people bought pistols, I’m not sure why she would have bought the M-15(?), but who knows how afraid she was.
While we don’t know for sure why she had guns in the home and we may never know, I think my guess is more likely than the article that came out of the Daily Mail. So Gigi and Mom3.0 no, I don’t think that article comes anywhere near the truth.
@Ragdoll- mental illness is seen as a stigma by so many because it affects behavior. So much of what people with a mental illness experience and exhibit is outside society’s definition of “normal” or “acceptable”.
I know this firsthand. It’s as debilitating as any chronic physical disease and can be so difficult to diagnose and treat.
I never allowed a gun in my home till this year. I was terrified of them. But when my husband and son wanted to buy rifles, I decided to learn to shoot. We’re not hunters, merely target shooters.
My fear came from my brother’s murder, shot with a M-16 rifle. He was in the army and killed by one of his own soldiers on base during morning formation. The man who shot him was in the process of being discharged for mental reasons.
The man didn’t have access to the M-16. He broke into an MP’s room and stole it. This happened Nov 10,1985. An investigation into my brother’s death thankfully brought about several changes to weapons security at that base.
Mental health is an important factor in many daily decisions. I just don’t know how to even begin to monitor that.
I’m a huge Constitution fan. I served 20 yrs in the USAF to protect the rights handed down to us. So I get nervous every time someone starts talking about banning anything.
Right now my heart is broken for the Sandy Hook victims and families, friends, the Lanzas, the town and the nation.
And I commend you and your husband for being the absolutely best most responsible and loving parents y’all obviously are.
Wow. ( saluting and waiting till you salute back) Ya think you know a person and then this.
I knew about your brother of course, sadly- however I did not know you served our country- my friend, thank you.
B
Someone asked me why things are getting worse (more people with mental health problems, more serious problems) – I don’t think anyone knows for sure, but you can make guesses and as usual it is multi-factorial. Before the mid-60s, the greatest influence on teenagers was – their parents. After this the greatest influence on teens (and probably pre-teens too) is – the media and their peers (sometimes called “the second family” for this reason). Obviously there are huge pressures today -economics, disrupted families, lots of busyness, world conflicts coming into your home every day, glorification of violence (also coming into most homes), I also think all the pollutants/toxics in our environment contribute to it as well. I think somehow kids need more attention in many cases. An easy mental health improvement I would like to see is screening in high schools. However, working next to adolescent specialist, I know that the parents do not cooperate enough. Perhaps we do need to commit people more to treatments, including some type of group living, which do exist, perhaps we need more. I would like to see more dissemination of information about access to family planning and the importance of having children when you are ready, not before, so people are not having children they cannot care for. Part of the new health care law is better coordination of care among all parties and I am excited that PCPs might be able to screen for some of these problems too, I have already made a specific suggestion in this vein in my area. Some doctor offices are now hiring social workers as well. I should also mention the proliferation of alcohol and drugs, including constantly new drugs coming in and hitting the pre-teen/teen population whose brains have not fully matured. That’s enough for now.
Ragdoll
You are quite correct about the problem of a person who has legally become an adult being responsible for any medication they need.
One of our boys had a good friend who when at home took the required meds to keep him on an even keel. After graduation from high school he went to live with his grandparents in order to go to college. He did not keep up with his meds and had a major regression.
He telephoned from Dallas one evening to tell us of a wild story. We knew he was in trouble. We discussed what we could do and decided to catch a walk-on flight from Houston to Dallas to see if we could find him and get him to the doctor. We called his parents and told them about the call and what we were about to do to get him help. They too would go to Dallas to help.
After an all night search we got lucky and found him at co-workers home. The only one he would trust was my wife. It took her till two P.M. to get him to agree to go see the doctor. The doctor had been notified and was waiting.
This is to illustrate with a real world snapshot of a disturbed individual and how they can go off their meds. This person was not violent, but he certainly would do and say things that normal people would not do. He is today in his late fifties and is able to hold a job. He does ok as long as he keeps himself medicated.
I would never have guns in a home where someone had mental health problems without making certain that they and the ammunition are secured away from them.
We were not his parents, but we did know him well and were aware of his problems. This is a true story and is an illustration of how adults in a community can do something positive to help a family solve a problem.
Blink….
Why do these shooters wear body vests when they plan to kill themselves after the massacre of innocent unarmed victims?
That pre-conceived thought suggests that they are going into combat. You don’t go into malls/grocery stores/MacDonalds, schools or universities with a magazine and really expect your victims to know how to use and carry a gun.
There could be numerous interpretations- both practical and emotional.
It is impossible for me to say with any degree of certainty why he was wearing that without producing the nexis to his mental or environmental issues- which is not yet known.
I will with more information, not dodging the question-
B
Once again I find myself finding solace in the wisdom amongst this community of advocates for victims at BOC. Thank you Blink for steadfastly remaining at the helm of this pioneering ship. This is a place people can come, old friends , new friends, the broken hearted, those who have lost loved ones, those who have lost hope and whose faith in God or any higher power has been sorely challenged. Here on BOC there is a forum , an ongoing conversation, emotional , intellectual, scientific, informed …..many great minds here and kind open hearts dealing with the unimaginable, the unspeakable, the awful truth of violence and chaos in this tired old world. Keeping it real , and dignified, current and community oriented is Blink, a mother, daughter, wife , sister like many of us. Blink who reads through all of our posts and sifts through looking for some kind of truth and resurrection. This is a site that deals with hell on earth and it is a learning blog. I always learn so much here , from my fellow posters and from Blink. From spirited dialogue about subjects that are avoided and considered morbid and shameful in our society. Where could I go besides within , and hugging my daughter really tight after this awful loss of innocent lives and any parents worst nightmare coming true before our collective eyes. When one sends ones most precious being in this world off to school and sigh a little sigh of relief that they will be OK , in good hands for the day while we go out and try to bring home the bacon. When that trust is shattered that security forever broken it is such a very sad day. There are very few places one can go for solace and support and fledgling ideas about solutions to scenarios we never could have imagined. BOC is one of those places . In 3rd world countries terrorists become suicide bombers and kill innocent victims for some me f….d up cause but a cause they believe in. How utterly tragic that in our country our young are shot by our young from with in our own bosom.W.T.F!! How to make sense of what makes no sense?
I am grateful to be here with you all, a voice in the wilderness, thinking , hoping , praying, questioning how to proceed? What is our future to be? Peace to all here on BOC. My old friends and new friends. Keep talking, keep challenging, questioning, keep smiling and loving your children and your fellow man.
I hear your gorgeous serenade in my heart HB- I thank you, as does this community and beyond.
B
What a spot on post Hummingbird.
Hummingbird your post is just breathtaking. I thank you for your beautiful thoughts.
It appears that some Governors are beginning to think of ways to better protect our children at school. Governor McDonnel of Virginia and Governor Perry of Texas both spoke on the issue today. Governor Perry is saying it is time to take steps to properly arm teachers and train them in good techniques. Governor McDonnel is putting together a group of people to gather data and make recommendations for arming teachers and doing away with gun free zones at schools. He also thinks that an examination of school facilities is in order from the standpoint of entry and movement security.
This has to be the thing that is done to honor those little ones and their teachers who lost their lives at Newtown.
Wow, just wow. I don’t know if it’s factual or not, but it completely makes sense.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-this-what-made-sandy-hook-elementary-shooter-adam-lanza-snap/
@ paleride
My heart felt condolences and prayers, dear friendy. You’ve suffered a terrible loss with the murder of your brother. To say I’m humbled and touched is an understatement. I hope it brings you some comfort, that I too, understand the stigma of depression. It’s been a long road, as I’m sure you understand. I, too, salute your for your service as a freedom fighter. You are an honourable, courageous soul, PR. Thank you for having the courage to share your thoughts with me. I hold them with great regard. Mental health needs to be considered a primary condition to strengthen, treat, stimulate, and learn from. I do believe there is a great connection between mental illness and ‘snapping’. I see both sides of the issue. What’s not acceptable is the lack of facilities and treatment for these people. Dr. Drew indicated state psych hospitals are necessary. I have to agree. There are some who suffer beyond understanding right from wrong. They need a place to go. They need a place to feel safe. The general public needs to know they are safe from a potential offender. Newtown was preventable. Common sense isn’t so common. The gunman should NEVER have had access to guns. Period. As said it before, I bad decision was made. I hear the mother did the best she could. I believe it. She made a crucial mistake allowing her son to handle fire arms. This is a case of needing to look down the road and consider if it could become an explosive, out of control, situation. Thank you! Thank you!…for your kind, uplifting words. I will treasure them as one of my favorite Christmas gifts, this season. Your heart is precious and gold. I don’t say that about a lot of people. You’re the real deal and I’m gratful our paths crossed along our journeys. XO!
@ my favourite cyber Grandpops, ATG. You must know that your response to my comments always makes me feel special and validated. I know you get it. Your wisdom and life experiences has given me so much to think about. I simply adore the fact you are old school. I have never read a post of yours that I didn’t learn from. In fact, most posts I read on BOC have always got me thinking, especially where I can learn to become a better person. Very special hearts hang out here.
I heart you Blink you had me at hello and I will be forever true.
Hummingbird .
May I add…
I commented about my son having a friend with Asperger’s. This year, my son started middle school. Most of the experiences have been good ones. My son likes sports, but he doesn’t like ‘rough’ place. So, he chooses to hang out with his friend and find ways to make recess fun. Unfortunately, his friend has become a target of bullying. In one sitch, one of the boys came up to them and asked if they wanted to play. My son’s friend responded by running. My son stayed, only to see a group of boys, a grade older, come up to him. They shoved him down and pulled his touque (a Canadian winter hat, if you will…LOL) down, over his eyes. This has been a growing experience for all of us. We’ve made the most of each ugly incident by talking about what he could have done differently. I am so proud he stands by his friend, even if it means he gets pushed around. I’ve helped him understand that bullies are bullied, too. They are hurting inside. There are many reasons they act out but one thing I always promise him…..their bad behaviour and picking on him is NEVER about him. People throw rocks at things that shine (thank you Miss Swift, whom I quote from a song). It’s how the bully feels inside, about himself and the world he sees himself in. We don’t know what’s going on at home, for them. They either feel abandoned, lack attention, are abused in some for OR are so effin enabled by arrogant parents (I’ve seen this first hand). They put their children on a pedestal and tell them, they’re the best of the best. Further, we talk about how he should NEVER take it personally. We’ve figured out ways to help him avoid them. He’s learning to be empathic and say hi to them. It’s softened it some. This isn’t an extreme case of bullying, however. I can see how some feel trapped and cornered. Some forms of bullying become physical and psychological assault. Who knows down the road, how this can contribute to a future catastrophe.
No doubt the gunman felt ostracized, misunderstood, terribly vulnerable and unable to fully comprehend why he was a target, growing up. The social media generation is losing empathy because they can say and behave however they want, without any real accountability. The lack of human contact is a great concern of mine and I’m praying school, parents, communities, are recognized this is becoming or has become, an epidemic of disconnected hearts. This is enabling bullying on many levels. Social skills are weak and some are detached. This isn’t going to help the future.
As I said, what took place in Newtown, has many layers of complex issues that will not be solved with a simple law. It’s multi faceted and all triggers need to be addressed.
Love Love Love
Just a guess that my link might be the school in WA that was considered by Adam’s mother in the article justice23 posted. It’s in my neck of the woods and I have been there once professionally about a contract outside of the mental health scope. I have known a former head administrator, as well other professionals that work and contribute there, but my knowledge is limited and I do not endorse this place, but offer as an example to discuss.
Except for the gravely disturbed, most patients live in residential units with a house mother or father, and depending on needs or skills can be involved in the community, and much like a halfway house, there is support and supervision.
I know one resident (fetal alcohol syndrome) that “graduated” out of the school, came to live with a sponsor who subsequently passed on and left their home to him, in which he still resides and supports with his disability check and lawn mowing. I met him over 20 years ago, and he is now over 60 and a vital part of the community.
There are good and bad things to be said about this institution, and like most institutions, probably more bad than I know. To a disturbed mind it could be perceived as “snake pit” but, to a willing participant it could be a safe place to call home, with friends who really understand.
Places like this, with the right people in charge might be part of the answer, but who wants to be dumped off there on their 18th birthday fresh out of high school when someone painted an entirely different picture of your future? Where is the dignity in that?
How would you suddenly feel about your future and purpose? Who wants to hear that *they* are not like *us* and therefore cannot come in to, or stay in the club? (I am not so sure the mentally ill isolate as is often reported, or society shuns them, as they enter adulthood, and they are no longer a cute but “shy” and troubled child under a parents control, as it were.)
To me, I think we have to acknowledge that people with “a beautiful mind” or a troubled mind cannot be expected to keep time on the same path as the majority of others and to place that expectation on them is unrealistic and *we* are setting them up for failure. What do we expect from them when we treat this minority as if they are in the majority and then they cannot meet our expectation of a functioning adult, we kind of turn our backs and they don’t have the capacity to understand?
We may need to acknowledge that some may need periodic supervision, and some may need full time supervision before they can successfully transition in to mature adulthood, and accept that some may never get there. What I think is critical is at what point do we help them accept this? Maybe we have to get out of denial and not focus so much about making a mentally challenged person *feel* “normal” and instead help them find the meaning and purpose and love in their life.
http://www.dshs.wa.gov/ddd/rainier.shtml
To be clear, my thoughts are not about excusing behaviors, but looking for a way to prevent future tragedies.
I have not been following this story too closely because we have been sitting at my dying father’s bedside for a week and quite honestly it is just too much to handle. I have a stepson with Aspergers and he is 20. I have been with him since he was 5 and he has also been diagnosed with oppositional defiance disorder, adhd, ocd, among other things. His life has been one battle after the other. When set off he can be very violent, used to take knives and go after our older son who knew to go in the car and lock the door. He is now 6’3″ and close to 300 pounds so uncontrollable. School was a nightmare, bullying, other kids getting him to do things because he would do anything to be accepted, the schools not equipped to handle him. I have had holes punched in my walls too many times to count, police called for domestic violence, he has been jailed several times. I could go on but my point is what can we do as a society about this type of mental illness? I am not blaming Aspergers, the schools or even us as parents and step-parents. There was never any solid diagnosis, nobody really knows what to do. He was passed thru the school system because they really couldn’t handle him any longer. My husband is an atty, his mother an RN.,yet we could not find the resources to help him. Thank the Lord none of us has any guns., would NEVER have semi-automatic weapons.!! Just saying there needs to be more awareness and help for these types of issues.
The aftermath has become quite terrifying for my teens of late – yesterday a teen was arrested nearby who had stolen a gun and threatened to kill everyone at school he hated. My kids’ school. This morning we had a long talk about what they will do if they hear gunshots, or hear someone making threats, or believe an acquaintance is planning something. I am still shaken and still anxiety-laden about sending them off to school today.
Also, I’m delighted to see mental health being discussed here as I believe it is the single most important issue we have in this regard. My husband and I are guardians of his 53 yr old brother who is schizophrenic and we know all too well how hard it is to force an adult to take meds, seek treatment etc. our laws make it impossible to force someone in to the hospital without first proving they are dangerous. Unfortunately it seems someone must get hurt before that can be done and that is a crying shame. My brother in law had his psychotic break at age 21 and his parents struggled to get him treatment. It took him hitting a police officer with a pipe and going to prison for him to get on the path to treatment and that is plain wrong! Today we have him in a residential treatment center that gives him his daily meds but otherwise gives him freedom to live as normally as possible. He has a curfew and there are rules but the important thing is he gets his meds every day, sees his doc once a month and is doing well. The problem is – there aren’t nearly enough places like his to handle the mentally ill adults awaiting help and it is very expensive. Our lawmakers must address these problems soon!
One has to wonder to what degree this shooter’s family addressed his mental health issues? I really don’t know enough about AL’s parent’s involvement in getting him the help he needed in order to gain the skills to navigate the world. Were they feeling that labeling him with a disorder would stigmatize him, thus avoiding getting him the necessary help and treatment? Denial too is a curse. When society understands that mental health disorders are a disease of the brain, then society will benefit and perhaps these incidents will become much more rare.
I am not blaming society, in fact we as a society need to become more aware of the cuts to mental health funding and perhaps demand more from our leaders. Stop sweeping this issue under the rug once and for all.
Thanks for the link justice23.
I have read it and it is more extensive than the snips posted elswhere.
While we cannot know how accurate the story is, we can get a better understanding of the direction that LE and others are looking to produce a motive.
This leads me to speculate that this young man had grown progressively beyond the ability for the mother to provide care. He probably should have been committed to a facility by the age of 17 while the family still had the right to make a commitment.
If this story is correct, then it appears that Adam was disturbed by the mother going off to do volunteer work at the school. He wanted her undivided attention and resented the time away from himself.
When he discovered that she was about to get a court to give her or someone else control of his life, it was too much and he snapped.
Was the gun hobby something that Adams mother used to try and give herself some avenue of escape from the constant care to Adam? Everyone needs something that when things are not right they can go to for a period of time to let their thoughts rest from troubles.
Did she think by including him in the activity he would appreciate having an adult responsibility and something they could do together?
Had she become numbed to his behavior after so many years that she could not forsee a potential problem with the guns? How strong was her mental health? Was she beginning to loose the ability to see him as he really was? A mother’s love is very strong. Often this love is misplaced when things with children are not good. Some mothers tend to make excuses for a childs poor behavior because they do not want the task of correcting it.
We don’t at present have answers to these questions. They may be applicable or they may not. It is just something to consider.
Hindsight is usually close to 20/20 and that is where we are today.
I can only hope and pray that society in general will gain insight and wisdom from this horrible event so that corrections can be made throughout the world to make our schools and public places safer.
This is sooo awesome…
http://m.modbee.com/modesto/db_262521/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=ASYRd4gW
While I have mixed emotions about having to have a military post at our schools, I am so very proud of our servicemen and women.
B
Slowroller
This mans decision was his own. He was doing something symbolic. By being there, he made a statement to any potential person that wanted to attack the school that they would first have to get by him to do it. Was he armed? We don’t know. I would speculate that he could have very well been armed with a concealed .45 cal. military handgun.
The problem is that he is just one person. An attacker would plan on taking out any person representing a guard by being in uniform. This is the falacy of having uniformed guards at schools. They would be the first targets.
Karl Denninger at market-ticker.org has written an editorial titled “Obama’s Hipocrasy Problem on Guns” that is well thought out concerning security at schools. While he spends a bit of time at the first part of the editorial setting up his reasons, the meat of the article is good. He even addresses the problem with medication. This is IMO the type of thinking that needs to be done to find a real solution to our safety problem at schools.
Blink
I have thought a long time about the need for the information that follows. It is not pretty, but it is true. If you think it is out of line, then just delete it and I will understand.
Most of those who read and post on this site are not real knowledgeable about guns and ammunition. We know that Adam used a rifle with the model designation of AR-15. Many who are ignorant of real facts equate this with the moniker of an “assault weapon”. It is not. If one is curious, then search on Google for AR-15. The Wiki article gives the history and development of this rifle.
The military since WWII has rifles of two types. The first line combat rifle at the beginning of the war was the Springfield model 03, a bolt action weapon from the turn of the 20th century. This was quickly superceeded by the M1 Garand because it was a gas operated semi-automatic rifle and its mechanism was simple and easy to clean in a field combat situation. There was also an M1 carbine developed for those who were not normal combat troops, but might need the accuracy and range of a rifle rather than a hand gun.
The AR-15 was developed to satisfy a requirement for european troops in NATO countries. The military version is M16. It is really of the carbine catagory. The bullet is very small, being only slightly larger than a .22 cal round (.223) and only 69 grans. Its power is from a large powder supply. A .22 cal. Long rifle bullet is between 35 and 45 grains. (refer to the wiki article at the bottom is a caliber table for various shells)
The problem with ammuinition available to non-military shooters is that due to efforts of the environmentalists, rounds for an AR-15 are copper jacketed. This mean that they do not deform as would a lead only round and often pass through a human or animal body. For this reason, many states will not allow these weapons to be used for deer or other large game. For example, my deer rifle is a modern version of a lever action 30-30 that fires a lead only cartridge of between 150 to 170 grains. Two well placed shots can take down a bear.
The ME’s spoke about multiple shots to the teachers and children. Did Adam stand and fire repeatedly at a single target? IMO he did not. What actually happened was that the children were all in a bunch and he simply fired into the group. The copper jacketed bullets passed through the bodies of some and penetrated those standing behind. This is what made it possible for the one little girl to fall down and pretend she was hit until Adam quit firing in her room.
Ragdoll, thank you for your kind and beautiful words! You’re so right about the terrible state of care for those with troubled souls and minds.
Yes, I too believe we need to do so much more in the mental health area. Prevention has always proven to be a better solution than reaction, imo.
Bless you and your family, and to all BOCers, happy happy holiday season!
And to my sweet Blink, love and prayers for you and fams!
I am concerned as to why this guy destroyed his computer. What was he afraid of being found? Blink indicated last evening that Jessica Ridgeway’s killer may have been mentored, do we know that AL did not have someone outside influencing him. This is a disturbed individual who would be a prime target for someone outside to manipulate. I am very concerned that we may not be able to see exactly what internet sites he had may have been communicating on. I also am surprised that no one ever mentioned the eyes of both AL and the Aurora movie theatre killer. I am not convinced that AL acted on his own with out some other influence. The crazy that shot up a mall in Portland with 10,000 people inside it talked as if he was comming into money…going away where it is warm…I again am not sure that someone outside was not manipulating him. I am not convinced that there is not some other evil working here.
#47 @Cindy
I have numerous account about Nancy being a survivalist and hoarding food and water. Hoarding is a whole different ballgame from from being prepared. We lived through Katrina by being prepared. Hoarding can be a mental illness. Sorry you took offense….that was not my intention. I just felt that the mother was exacerbating the situation with her son that she knew was fragile. If he was sitting in front of computers all day playing violent games
and then mom was hypervigilant about doomsday, then I believe that was one trigger. JMO
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/121217/nancy-lanza-prepper-movement-adam-lanza-marsha-l
If Adam’s mother left him home alone his last few days, he probably was beside himself – scheming and plotting away. Maybe the weapons and ammo were locked and he had enough time to find the key and prepare for his unthinkable slaughter. If he acted “normal” when she arrived home, she probably just went about unpacking,chatting,tidying up and heading to bed. Perhaps Adam just waited for her to fall asleep to kill her. Why on earth would his mom have left him home alone. I have read she told the sitter to never turn his back on him. She knew what he could possibly do. If you have to blame someone, I personally blame BOTH of his parents. Before divorcing, while still legal guardians, they should have had a plan for Adam in a controlled environment. I wonder if the Dad told his ex that she could have everything/anything if she’d keep Adam. Maybe she thought it was an incredible deal and then realized she was in trouble. I don’t know. It just seems the writing is on the wall with so many of these killers. God bless.
I gotta be honest with you all here. This recent event, along with a combination of being emotionally tied up in Megans death and the effing injustice that let DJ be out and about and then the other girl, Kayla…along with a few personal things going on..I hit that proverbial wall.
I just shut down.
I have taken a break from reading comments, posts and such.
I just…don’t understand….at all. The evil that exists in our world just makes me very very very confused for a lot of things.
I am grateful I found friends here, esp Blink.
I just have really no words for this horrific crime without 1) ranting until I can rant no more and 2) breaking down in tears and falling apart.
B… <3 you girl.
Ode says:
December 20, 2012 at 8:15 pm
I am concerned as to why this guy destroyed his computer. What was he afraid of being found? Blink indicated last evening that Jessica Ridgeway’s killer may have been mentored, do we know that AL did not have someone outside influencing him. This is a disturbed individual who would be a prime target for someone outside to manipulate. I am very concerned that we may not be able to see exactly what internet sites he had may have been communicating on. I also am surprised that no one ever mentioned the eyes of both AL and the Aurora movie theatre killer. I am not convinced that AL acted on his own with out some other influence. The crazy that shot up a mall in Portland with 10,000 people inside it talked as if he was comming into money…going away where it is warm…I again am not sure that someone outside was not manipulating him. I am not convinced that there is not some other evil working here.
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I have always believed that on some level certain mass shootings originated with an almost evilness behind them that goes much deeper than basic mental illness and/or making an angry statement with horrific actions. To this day, I still believe from everything I have read, heard and seen concerning Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris that Columbine was much much bigger than just 2 mentally unstable, depressed teen boys out to make a statement and intent on taking other people down with them.
In my soul of souls I genuinely believe to this day it was good vs. evil on that campus that day … a kind of spiritual warfare playing out if you will. Sadly, Columbine seemed to mimic “This Present Darkness” by Frank E. Peretti in many forms completely but no one ever wants to talk about the deeper unseen issues so I usually just keep those to myself.
@ all, this is unreal. Sitting outside kids school . Have added police escort.
All you moms and dads with children at home need to watch their environments such as schools, malls and yes churches. There will be copycat attempts by those deranged minds that are still out there.
We have two of our grandchildren with us this week. One is 18 and the other is 20. I had a long conversation with the 20 year old this morning. He was very concerned about an adult opinion of what has transpired at Newtown. He was looking for answers.
I believe that now is the time,where possible, to talk with children about this evil event.
There is much work to be done to rectify the security holes for our schools and other public places. A one size fits all solution will not work. We need a whole menu of choices that can be applied to individual situations to correct the problem.
If the report is correct, LE is saying that Adam took a large screwdriver to his hard disk drive. Depending on how much physical dammage has been done to the drive will determine if any data at all will be recovered. There are some amazing techniques available for partial or even total recovery. The destruction of the drive tells us that this had been planned over a period of time.
Were the mother and dad of Adam foolish enough to allow him to have a credit card? I am asking this question because of the reported bullet proof vest. This equipment is not normally found with people who do hunting or target shooting.
Christina Stoy says:
December 21, 2012 at 11:09 am
@ all, this is unreal. Sitting outside kids school . Have added police escort.
**********************************************************************
I remember my moment of “unreal” seeing armed men and snowplows blocking the entrance outside the Newark airport right after 9/11.
Our office just added a secure keypad in the elevator, and secure doors leading to staff in the first floor. They tried to say it wasn’t prompted by recent events (we are near Clackamas) but we all know . . .
I was saddened today by the lack of emphathy the Nancy Lanza. All over this country 26 bells tolled, not 27. I guess the public blames her. But, she was a victim of this evil, too.
The term ‘kill or be killed’ seems to come into play here. I really believe his Mom, with her survivor mentality, along with her stockpile of weapon’s, came into play that morning. Adam was not going to any kind of institution and be abandoned, like his Dad and brother before him had done to him. Adam’s thinking comes across as that of someone deeply troubled over, know one cared about him, only what money served his Mom’s needs, like when she went to New Hampshire and stayed at a very nice Hotel and didn’t include him. Yep, his clothing represented going into warfare and Adam felt vulnerable just like those 20 young children did when faced with Adam’s arsenal.
I have to say that I am uncomfortable with the media and with armchair psychologists’ diagnosis of this man’s mental condition. We do not have his medical records to be able to diagnose him. Nor could we provide a diagnosis since he’s dead. I noticed that a lot of people (not saying here, just in general) immediately said he was “mentally ill” because of anecdotal evidence of him being “off” and “strange”.
First, the sobering reality is that sane people can and do commit these crimes, all the time. We’ve all read enough horrifying cases to know this. We all also know that it is a small minority of mentally ill people that are violent and/or act on violent impulses.
Second, I’m worried that we walk a very slippery slope when it comes to stigmatizing and demonizing the mentally ill. I have struggled with a mood disorder most of my adult life, that gets triggered by extreme stress, and at one point required hospitalization. People with mental illnesses are more dangerous to themselves than to others. It is a heartbreaking and difficult way to live, and I am saying that as someone with a mild, non-debilitating case who has managed my illness to the point where I was able to get back to academia and even a graduate program. I certainly do not want to go back to the days of when people could be institutionalized over socially-defined unacceptable behaviors – my great-great grandmother was institutionalized for bipolar disorder at a very young age, her son was taken from her, and she spent her entire adult life in the institution. Greater access to affordable mental health services is what is needed most for those who meet the criteria of mental illness. I say this as someone who has experienced it, not as an armchair diagnostic of this man or his situation.
Finally, I am taking all of the media coverage of this crime with a grain of salt for a while. I hope everyone will read “Columbine” by Dave Cullen which has won several awards. He showed that a lot of the information that came out about the crime and the shooters in the immediate aftermath and for a period of time following was abjectly false or based on unreliable sources. It is only in hindsight and with a full investigation which will take some time, that I believe that we can really figure out what happened and why it happened.
oops, delete my comment above – i see my post here now. sorry!
I believe there’s an piece of THE truth in everyone’s posts. We’re creatures that need answers to questions. It’s instinctive to the human spirit, to search for the truth. My husband and I had an amazing, thought provoking conversation with our Christian mentors. We tried to process answers by asking if this was good vs. evil, mental health, poor parenting, the separation of church and state, media and feeding the fear to the public…… We all concurred it was a mix of everything, but still couldn’t grasp the precise truth. We may never know. Personally, I’m frustrated by how the media wants to be the ‘first’ to report information, which blatantly hasn’t been verifiable. First, there was NO connection between gunman and Sandy Hook. Now, we learn he attended the school. Which is it? The integrity of the truth is lost through media. I never noticed just how much until I observed news cover of Caylee Marie Anthony’s murder by her egg donor.
We can’t trust the information we get from the news, media or talking heads. We need to ask more questions before we buy into anything. For now, what happened is known between God, our cherubs and those inside the school. We’ll never know the mind of the gunman. There’s nothing to analyze since he took his own life. Access to the truth went down with him and we have to accept that. For me, I feel as though I’m violating the deceased, their parents and their community by considering information that has no attachment to facts.
Thank GOD for BOC and people who search the truth, whole heartedly. I’m grateful to all of you for being genuine truth seekers. Y’all have a very special place in my heart. Lord, seal this statement and bless BOC with YOUR justice, love, mercy, protection and as always, a hedge of your angels, if it be Your will.
I wanted to wish each of you of blessed and Spirit filled Christmas. Don’t hold back on your joy or gratitude, especially this season. Newtown has demonstrated that hate and anger does not prosper us, abundantly. Love, faith and family does! We need to honour the innocence of our cherubs and borrow from them, their sense of child like spirit and joy. Live. Love. Laugh…in remembrance of them and all our lost cherubs.
God bless you, dear friendLY. I know this is will be challenging time for you and your family. Love and prayers, sister friend.
All my love, to each of you~~~