BREAKING NEWS: Missing Cleveland Teens Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus And Michelle Knight Found Alive After 10 Years With Their Children- Suspect Ariel Castro and Brothers In Custody
Cleveland, OH Missing since 2003 ns 2004 respectively - Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus were found alive this afternoon. A suspect who has not been identified is said to be interviewing with police.
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I would like to see the City tear down that house and turn the land into a community garden. The whole community is going to need a way to heal from this.
I may not have made myself clear in my earlier post. I think Mr. Ramsey is a Hero. I believe that all the positive attention given him may help to show him a path of sharing and teaching others that doing the right thing is the right thing. The right action in the right place can lead to miracles. After 10, 9, 8 years he did the right thing. He was in the right place and his heart was open to do the right thing. From God to him there was a long overdue miracle.
What woman’s name is on the basement wall? Why wouldn’t the FBI release that info if they think it is irrelevant? ANS: They think it IS relevant.
I don’t want to jump the gun, but between the issue with not flagging the Boston bomber duo after interview and now what appears to be a snafu in 2004 in this case, the FBI had better be ready for some acknowledgements
B
Balloon release for Michelle
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/05/michelle_knight_to_be_honored.html
Ashley Summers disappeared when Jocelyn was 6 months old. If Castro is responsible, maybe he didn’t bring her back to the house because there was a baby in the house? Maybe he took her to another property and killed her (I hate to think this…..but it is a possibility).
If Ashley was in the house, I would think Amanda, Gina, and Michelle would have known.
Also, I doubt Castro just suddenly escalated to taking women off the street successfully. I bet he attempted and failed “before getting it right”. Where are his other victims?
I immediately thought of how odd it must have looked to see a single guy buying boxes of feminine hygiene products on a regular basis (risking bumping into a friend or family member in a store with a basket full of tampons?). And, it sounds like he fed them McDonald’s food a lot. No one found it odd that he routinely bought 5 hamburgers at a time?………day after day? And, Amanda was wearing female PJ’s when she escaped. He was out buying women’s clothes too. Maybe he ordered online?
One other thought: I wonder if the rooms in this house were sound proof. Over the years, my neighbors have had babies and babies can be really loud. No mistaking a crying baby or a toddler having a tantrum. I have heard babies cry from inside my house….particularly during the night when everything is quiet.
Castros neighbors never heard Jocelyn?
Odd.
Kim
I rather doubt that Castro purchased any feminine hygiene products. What did he care about their problems? They probably had to use paper towels. Did he buy them any clothes? Probably not. He would have visited the local charities drop boxes for clothing.
What size hamburgers would he buy? Most adults can consume two of the little ones. McDonald would simply think he was buying an all day supply. He didn’t alert anyone by daily activities to what was really happening at that house.
The Cleveland police are releasing information that they don’t think this is related to any group. I think they are trying via PR to downplay that possibility and their inability for solving these kidnappings long ago.
Walmart et al is not going to alert the police that a man is buying tampons or lots of mcdonalds. I would have been in jail long ago if the latter were suspicious. It isn’t a crime or even suspicious for people to buy any of those things. And no cashier at mcdonalds or walmart etc is going to know if the person comes from a family of ten or lives alone.
re: the human trafficking angle: From what we have learned so far of him, Ariel Castro does not seem like the kind of predator who would want to share these women with his friends or other men. He enjoyed the power and control that he, and he alone, had over them. Introducing another person to the mix is dangerous. I don’t think he would want to “share” these women sexually with anyone – the way in which he clearly controlled which women were able to carry children to term and which children survived, he had complete control over these womens’ bodies and I’m sure he thrived on that power. He went after young teens (and probably thought Knight was also much younger) knowing they were possibly virgins. A man like that would see the intrusion of another man on her body as pollution, and once he views them in this way, IMO he might have killed them because they are no longer these pure young virgins to him. These women were for his sadistic sexual gratification alone. Again, this is just my own opinion based on what we know right now.
@Lyndsay, You make a good point. Consider lack of evidence does not mean innocence, and there had to be a reason that the brothers were brought in to begin with. If this is large scale, they probably don’t want to set off a panic if other victims are in harms way.
Blink
I dont know if this has already been discussed. I am having a little trouble thinking these girls just accepted a ride from some strange man. The daughter had to be involved in this some way or some how.
Miss Rose C,
Respectfully, can we please leave pigs and animals out of this? Animals don’t do this sort of thing. I understand that one struggles to classify this kind of person w/out using four-letter words. I mean no harm Miss Rose C.
“Monster” doesn’t seem to fit and “evil person” isn’t descriptive enough. We’re all outraged, and by-the-way, I posted in haste last night and blink had to come to my rescue and fix my mistake–my posts aren’t perfect. I just wanted to point out the animal/pig comment. I have a special place in my heart for the voiceless (animals, children, etc.) just like you and everyone here. I’m sure you understand. Here’s a story about a pig who saved her owner.
http://thefamiliarspirit.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/lulu-hero-pot-bellied-pig-saves-owners-life/
I don’t think there is “monster” in their blood, but I do see there must have been a disconnect or denial. This man brutally beat her mother. It is unfortunate that the court system did not indict him then, so maybe this all could have been avoided. Her sister, Emily is in prison. She (Angie) and her brother (Ariel Anthony) seem to have survived, and she seems to be facing the truth now.
She had known her “daddy” as a “friendly, caring, doting man.”
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/09/us/ohio-suspect-daughter/index.html
Arlene seems apologetic, and also facing this nightmare head on. Still this article goes on to state the family had a criminal element. This article also states the brothers have been CLEARED. You had him pegged Lyndsay. I just can’t believe this was a one man show, even though all evidence to date says it was. I guess that organized crime component bugs me.
snip>
There were rumors that Sesa Castro [Ariel Castro's father] had mob ties, Cuevas said.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ariel-castro-daughter-apologizes-kidnap-victim-article-1.1339323#ixzz2SsS4vcXL
Can anyone lay out for me Ariel Castro’s known children (and their mothers)? I’ve lost track.
@jeff, I disagree that any of the daughters (or sons) had to be knowingly involved. Unknowingly, probably.
I often read articles without watching the video. But I wanted to hear what this daughter had to say directly, as she stayed with Castro after her mother and siblings left, apparently believing his lies that his violence to her mother was triggered by infidelity.
The thing that caught my attention in the video, that wasn’t picked up in the article below, is that she says that, as a child (while her mother still lived there), she picked the lock to the basement. So, the basement was already locked back then. She says the thing she remembers is that there was a fish tank down there, and she thought it was odd since there was nobody down there to look at the fish.
Castro may be telling the stories of the abductions of Michele, Amanda, and Gina, but I don’t believe for a minute that he is telling all.
Why does a child pick a lock in the first place if they are not suspect of something? This for me is a big red flag. The daughter staying with the Father in light of very severe abuse allegations ( brought on by infidelity just had me hear Castro in my head. “INFIDEL”) begs another question- where was CFS during this?
We should be hesitant to point any fingers without substantiation for sure, but as an investigator, as I watched her non-verbal, I would be concerned this child was used as a lure whether she was aware of it or manipulated. She may have repressed much if not all. In an unrelated case I plan to feature in the next month, you will be shocked at how common that is.
Expect a mental defense from Castro.
I watched the interview with Gina Dejesus Mom last eve. I wanted to hurl. Castro just asked her last week if there was any progress on her daughter’s case.
Looks like the year of the new breeds around here and we need to adjust our FBI BAU behavior/characteristic study profiles.
I am still stunned this guy who is the poster child for a crime like this evades suspicion for 11 years. This is Cleveland Ohio people, in a residential neighborhood and these families knew each other prior to the disappearance. Why was Castro NOT top of the list?
B
Sorry, forgot to paste the link. Too skeeved out by the fish tank story.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/09/us/ohio-suspect-daughter/index.html
Well, sorting out the Castro children, and what they might have known, is going to be a psychologically challenging task. How much did they lie to themselves? http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/09/18150055-long-before-he-was-charged-ariel-castro-was-accuser-in-sexual-assault-case?lite
erose says:
May 9, 2013 at 8:20 pm
@Lyndsay, You make a good point. Consider lack of evidence does not mean innocence, and there had to be a reason that the brothers were brought in to begin with. If this is large scale, they probably don’t want to set off a panic if other victims are in harms way.
______________________________________________________________
They have three (plus a kid) first hand witnesses who would have told them if the brothers were involved in the abduction/rapes. I suppose those witnesses conceivably may not know if the brothers knew about the crimes and did nothing, but they would know, and thus the police would know, if they were actively involved. Apparently, they weren’t. I still see posters on the yahoo news articles saying all three need to be put to death which is sad.
Just throwing this out there, how do we know that Castro did not implicate them himself?
There is no getting around it, until they are cleared, they were held for a reason we do not know of. Let’s let this play out.
I am not a death monger, and I am a staunch supporter of our constitution. Unfortunately many use it to espouse hate and lynch mob mentality- what’s new? Sad.
B
Lizzy
I just find it hard to believe these girls got into a car, van or whatever without them knowing someone. The story’s I am reading and what I am hearing here in ohio make it sound like he just offered them a ride and they just got in. If their saying they didn’t know each other then that makes no sense to me. It may not have been the daughter that is an assumption on my part. However I do think something had to compelle these girls to get into the car.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/09/the-forgotten-victim-cleveland-s-michelle-knight.html
This is not a mainstream read but there are some valuable insights, if true.
Her brother that was unaware that she was missing had been booted from the casa at 14. At least his reasoning is now understandable.
Michelle was dragged into a bathroom and raped by two guys, resulting in the pregnancy in which the child was later taken away. This woman has had a miserable existence from the opening bell. Some say she is slow and childlike. Some say she is focused but occasionally working on a different plane. My early guess is that she will flourish with the coming structure and loving environment that many are willing to provide.
I wonder if these women will crave Mcd’s or shun it?
I wonder if their flinch reflexes will dull quickly or over time?
I wonder if any of them will ever be in a relationship and have families?
I wonder if some philanthropist will step up and ease their lifelong financial needs?
I cannot invest much time pondering Castro. His ticket has now been scanned and he is undeserving of any cerebral syntax from me. Edification excepted…(For educational purposes only)
I reckon my thoughts on this are jumbled and I can picture Blink looking at me, saying “That’ll do Donkey, that’ll do.” so I will close now with one last thought.
Ask your Deity to heal and uplift these bludgeoned spirits. Thanks
B says : Why was Castro NOT top of the list?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not following Ms. B….what puts him at the top of the list?…bus driver?…single male?….spouse abuse?…known to the families?….some combo of the above?…
JeffD I appreciate your patience as I held comments today requiring my response while I was out of town.
To answer you – yes, all of that.
However, if we take the victims, and then victims individually, we have overlap. We have what we call “commons”. I submit that if proper victimology study was preformed, Castro surfaces. He SHOULD surface early. The analysis I work with is proprietary and I am precluded from publishing it’s specifics but as we know, the FBI was involved. I say that a profile of this offender had to be South of he South Pole for it to not produce Castro.
Not to oversimplify, but picture the ripples of the pond. Victims are the origin or “thrown stone” if you will. That is the LE protocol for even the most un-trained. If one gets to say “4″ outside of the family silo, that person is a target until they are excluded. I can be more specific as info develops Jeff- let me know.
Proud of you non-carc.
B
@jeff, I’m not really disagreeing, at least in the cases of Amanda and Gina. But that doesn’t mean the kids were conscious of their role. In Amanda’s case, he told her his son worked at that Burger King, and she may have recognized him or the similarity. She did tell her sister she was getting a ride. In Gina’s case, that daughter has added something to the story she told on America’s Most Wanted back then. Now she says they called not just her mother that afternoon, but also Castro. So, yes, the kidnapped girls weren’t just stupid. And, who knows from where Michele might have known him. He was a school bus driver after all.
Discreet DNA testing should also be performed on the granddaughter whose mother attempted a murder/suicide.
The family of Gina DeJesus has asked that the news helicopters leave her alone, so she can enjoy a little time outside listening to the birds for the first time in a decade. That she has gone from one kind of prison to another. Is there any recourse to keep them away, since a polite request for privacy didn’t work?
@lizzy. No eminent domain is not restricable for privacy
Hey again. Consider me like the neighbor that moved away and has come back to visit, add a little more rice to the pot and warm up the gumbo.
http://store.onpointpromos.com/shop/charles-ramsey-cleveland-hero-tee/
It is being reported that the brothers were arrested as well because they were with the little mermaid when he was found. They had unrelated warrants.
Michelle had apparently been beaten so bad that she requires some facial reconstruction surgery. Hang on while I break something.
There are a few new tidbits here:
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/ariel-castro-charged-with-kidnapping-and-rape-after-gina-dejesus-michele-knight-and-amanda-berry-escape-cleveland-house/story-fndir2ev-1226637932316
Fox and CNN are also running teasers about Castro talking cooperatively with LEOs. He is apparently playing the victim card early. He was abused by a family member. Not nearly enough.
Live large my dawgs. I will be back soon.
I’m not sure I believe everything that Michelle Knight’s family says about her.
More on Michelle’s family.
http://news.yahoo.com/woman-held-captive-cleveland-home-rebuffs-mother-grandmother-223423744.html
I would be shocked if there wasn’t a long history of abuse in Castro’s family. It is one of the tragedies of a huge amount of these cases that the perp was also a victim and that his (usually) actions are at least in part the result of his victimization. Hard as it is to give, they deserve some modicum of sympathy also. However, nothing can justify or forgive the crimes.
I just completed juvenile offender studies to include a mode on rapist study. I mention this because I DO agree with you that Castro shows all the signs of a minor abuse victim. 73% of similar profile rapists ( not even counting in the abduction fantasy feature which is an entirely different thing) are victims of sexual abuse. In the same study, it was learned that by the age of 18 they collectively admitted to committing an average of 7 arrestable offenses. We need to be very concerned about the environment that is creating juvenile offenders like this in a big way. The fact that Castro is hispanic in this scenario is another off statistic so to speak. I do not have the ability to feel empathy for Castro regardless. I have the ability to understand and create context within his crimes, but he is a sadist and he is a psycopath and there is never a set of circumstances where compassion comes into it for me. In varying degrees, he was coming into this behavior regardless. It was a matter of time and trigger.
Perhaps not very scholarly of me, but I know evil when I see it.
B
Hi redly
I was discussing michelle night with my girlfriend. I could be wrong but I just get bad vibes about nights mother. I just get the impression that she is more worried about the fame that is going to come from this then her daughter. I just get that vibe. Don’t know if anyone else does but I do.
Michelle Knight has been discharged from the hospital. They said she is in good spirits and has requested that her privacy be respected.
I do not think he was involved with Ashley Summers. He had a house full that he could not provide for. If he was involved, he would have to have killed her. He was beyond vicious to Michelle but did not kill her. This makes me think that he only had a penchant for killing the unborn.
Zillow shows the house has a value of $39k. It was purchased in the early nineties for 12k. One article I read said it was being foreclosed on. How can a 12k loan not be paid off in 20 years?
If he was abused, his brothers were too. While not upstanding citizens, they apparently do not have a house full of victims. The fact that he wrote a suicide note confirms he knows the difference between right and wrong.
His head stayed bowed in court. Is that due to shame or per lawyers instructions? I am reneging on my earlier statement about him. I will have to ponder the victimology and a little history.
Blink, I read the account of how Castro was actually arrested. He and Onil were at McDonalds together when cops went there to arrest him. That’s why Onil was arrested too – because he was with him at McDonalds. Onil and Pedro Castro both had outstanding warrants for minor misdemeanors. Onil assumed the cops were looking for Pedro for the warrants, so he asked, “is this about something Pedro did? he’s at my mom’s”. Onil gets swept into it when he’s found with Ariel at McDonalds. Onil then accidentally brings Pedro into it by making an incorrect assumption. Thus, you have 3 brothers brought in. The 2 bros were then held on those outstanding warrants. However, the 3 women made a lot of pretty detailed statements to police, and not once did the mention Onil or Pedro having been involved. If they had, the 2 men would have been held or charged. But they weren’t. The 3 women have no reason to NOT talk about Onil and Pedro, considering that the men were released back into the same community as these women, if they were involved, and I really think they would have said so if they were.
@Red Ranger: I too was contemplating the shame question. I haven’t read the whole suicide note, to be honest, only heard a few things from articles, so I don’t know if it took more of a bragging tone or if it was written shamefully. Shame is a very powerful emotion that can displayed or acted upon in a whole manner of unhealthy ways. Suicide is an aggressive act turned inward on oneself. Shame fuels self-hatred, which becomes aggression. Considering that the suicide note was written several years ago, instead of turning aggression inward on himself, he probably turned his aggression again on the women, because he blamed them for his shame – according to articles, at the end of the note, he blamed the women for their own situation, which alleviates some of his own shame, redirects his aggression and self-hatred, and alleviates the need for suicide, which may be why he did not follow through with it. Now however, because he no longer has the women as an outlet for his anger and aggression, I think it is a smart move of the jail to put him on suicide watch.
Redranger — he probably refinanced and took whatever equity he had in it to finance his lifestyle. I read it was in foreclosure or close to it also. If so, he was likely either going to have to kill the women or get caught relatively soon.
re: Arlene’s involvement – is it possible that she was Ariel’s “favorite” and was treated well by him, and thus stuck by him? People have speculated that Michelle Knight was treated the worst by Castro, and that he favored Amanda Berry (no word on how/if he treated Gina deJesus differently). We already know that he wanted Amanda’s baby to survive but not Michelle’s. It seems he was capable of showing feelings toward, or at least favoritism of, one person over another. Which is another way of psychologically abusing them, and becomes a way of psychologically holding them longer and keeping them from joining forces against him. They compete for his favor.
To me, it is thus possible that he played his daughters off eachother in the same way, because he seems to enjoy psychological abuse just as much as physical abuse, or to keep them from aligning against him, or for whatever reason liked and favored one daughter over another – in abusive families, there is sometimes one sibling that for whatever reason is abused more severely than the others. It could have been that the daughter who tried to kill the baby showed symptoms of mental illness at a young age and was thus singled out for more abuse like Michelle Knight was. Maybe he treated the other daughter, Arlene, well and that’s how she became an unwitting collaborator of sorts. It is also possible that Arlene was also sexually abused, but because she didn’t know any better, viewed this as a loving relationship. Or it was painted by him as part of a loving relationship. Sexual abuse is very confusing and complicated, and its victims do not always recognize it as abuse because it’s all they’ve ever known.
I would love to know more about both daughters’ histories. What year did the incarcerated daughter go to jail? I wonder if she left home at some point and if this would coincide with when he first began abducting women? He lost one target and needed a replacement. He also does not seem to have shown much regard for his sons, which would go along with the theory that Amanda’s baby was kept alive because she was a girl.
Blink’s reporting of the study tells me that we need as a society to stop treating those above 13 as juveniles. They mostly have adult bodies and should be treated as adults from age fourteen regarding the criminal justice system. Giving them a pass for the full responsibility of their acts is teaching them the wrong values.
There should be a special place of incarceration for these offenders. Not in with the general population, but for an age group from 14 to 18. Following reaching the 18th birthday, then place them in a regular facility for adult
The youngest offender for a sexual offense I am aware of, and was committed to a facility within the study was 8.
B
Thanx B….The victimology study is triggered by what event?..I assume each dissappearance would have triggered its own study, and then because of similarities and proximity a ‘combined’ study should have been also triggered?…
No. Victimology is specific to the victim. There is no collective application for this particular investigative tool. There can be comparisons of course, but the initial study is derived by the need to assign risk potentials.
Those flags- seemingly simple, are absolutely not. Low- Moderate- High. Within those findings are specific protocol that are designed to produce a “rating”, but in a way, that is the kiddie version.
It predicts the relationship to the offender in order to narrow the suspect pool.
B
That is amazing that an 8 year old could be a sexual offender. What does society do in a case like that? Place them in a facility for the mentally unstable? Put them in a reform school? That would be a tough decision.
Yes, the child was/is in an extended treatment facility through a Judge’s order. Not only was that fact shocking and unsettling, but in this particular class there were many from LE and during lab they shared a major problem with the information they were getting as investigators. Frequently, they will not have access to juvenile records in prep for interview whether the offender is still young or for offenses that occur much later. A very high percentage of juvenile offenders falsely confess for a variety of reasons and can make prosecution difficult. It was also verified that overall LE has almost no training in detection of false confessions. There was a definite LE mindset that once kids are in the system it is just a matter of time before they commit the offense that locks them up or gets them killed.
Being the virtual newbie to these veterans, I despaired that the perspective they had may be true, but it does not nothing to protect society from them and shouldn’t that be the goal? I got the “you must be a shrink” response.
I said no, what I am, what my family is, what you are , what we all are , are potential crime victims. Would you like to have another bite at the apple in assessing Adam Lanza before he slaughtered your kids or grandchildren?
Don’t even get me started on Austin Sigg. I am preparing a presentation on that nightmare to be the feature of a blind lab. The best profiles in the US worked that case and DID NOT come up with a juvenile offender until he was a suspect, which he would not have been had he not agreed to provide his own DNA sample.
B
Trying to catch up…
RE Redly says:
May 8, 2013 at 8:32 pm
“Pretty disgraceful that they arrested the two brothers without any apparent evidence of their involvement. They will never get their reputations back. Hopefully this reminds all of us not to be so quick to jump to conclusions about people’s guilt, especially on such important matters.”
Im not sure who said it but there were initial reports that Amanda got into a vehicle with 3 men-
Some accounts say it was a white sedan and others have it as a white van…
My point is that I do not think it is unreasonable for the public to make an educated assumption based upon these reports as well as the brothers initial arrests-
I dont think it was a huge leap…
I do agree however that noone should be calling for death or jumping to the conclusions that they are all definitely guilty or were in the know..especially now since they seem to be cleared by LE -
I do think that their reputations will be intact if they have been cleared and if they do work with LE
Thank you for reminding us all to remember everyone is innocent until they are proven guilty- no one should be forming any lynch mobs.
“Seems that he may have essentially been a serial offender, except he kept his victims alive instead of killing them. There doesnt always have to be some grand conspiracy Terrible as it sounds, it may have been good for the victims that there were three of them, rather than being all alone in that situation.”
Yes it seems he is a serial offender but i do not think anyone can say for certain if he started and stopped with these three victims- or if his MO has always been the same…
In his letter he says PP why did I need another when i was in possession of two already…
For all we know his compulsion began with raping and killing picking up prostitutes etc. we cant say…but what we can say is he himself recognized his wants had no bounds…
Perhaps he came to a point where he knew he couldnt “possess” another in his home so he resorted to feeding his needs with picking up other girls- hitchhikers etc and disposing of them instead of opting to bring them home- we just dont know-
Youre right Redly there doesnt have to be a grand conspiracy – but there are huge red flags pointing to the possibility that others at least suspected something was amiss or to others unknowingly acting as lures or just turning a blind eye instead of facing the concerns head on.
For instance is this true;
His daughter was good friends with Gina and was going to spend the night? Gina used her bus money to call home to ask for permission and mom said no so they parted ways.. and as she was walking home the friends dad- Castro, came and offered her a ride?
If true then certainly some hard questions need to be asked
how is it noone looked into the time period of Castro absence after his daughter came home?
Were they living in the same house at the time or was she over his house at the time for a visit? and if so then how is it she did not see or hear dad bring home a captive?
and if daughter picked the lock once why is it that her curiosity was not peeked again later- and how is it she was unaware of the other two previous victims?
How did Castro get these victims into his home did they enter willingly at first just as they accepted a kind offer of a ride at first?
Did police not warn the public to look for any strange behaviors in neighbors and so on
The little girl how is it that she called castros mother grandma? was grandma aware of this new addition to the family? this line of thinking brings up more questions surely with his Uncle owning the corner store and hies brothers in contact with him they had to have been aware of Jocelyn…again noone bothered to ask where what why when how? about shots and school and more?
“Also read today that the rescuer, though an entertaining interview, is a conviction felon who has spent time in prison for multiple instances of domestic violence. Finally, it seems that the story about the neighbors calling the police because they saw a naked woman in the back yard wasn’t true.”
Domestic violence is a cycle and unless the perp and the victim get appropriate help that cycle more than likely will cont- and it seems he served his time so when is it that he can remove the purple letter from his shirt?
The fact that he was a perpetrator of domestic violence previously and the fact that his first thought at encountering a screaming woman asking for help was PP i thiought it was just a domestic dispute- YET he still took it upon himself to get involved and help this woman says to me he HAS learned from his punishments–
He has learned that it is good and right and decent to get involved and not turn away- he has learned that women can be victims and may need help instead of just writing them off as trouble makers or whiny B-or… which is a far cry from many perps who take on the mindset of all women are bad and men have to stick together…so they are given a pass especially friends and neighbors which Castro seemed to be to this rescuer yet he did not falter in helping and that to me is what makes him MORE of a hero- as he obviously had his own past yet he overcame it all to kick down the door of his friend and neighbor to save a woman and her child – and in doing so is now being harshly judged by some .
Sad really because what possible Good Samaritan can ever withstand such public scrutiny why chance that spotlight shining into your own skeleton closet? its easier and wiser to just choose not to act to choose to stay safely in your own home munching your Micky Ds far less to deal with that way let the next guy who doesnt have so many skeletons take that risk…
Redly thanks for sharing your thoughts and thanks for spuring mine..
To me It doesnt matter what he did previously it matters only that he heard her cries and he acted without worrying about the aftermath.
AJMO
Peace
For those who are struggling with Castros possible victimhood in childhood..
Not every victim becomes a perp and not every 1st offender becomes a repeat offender this is especially so for the younger offenders-
They are not all evil and lost-
some do find their way-
So i do not think it is wise to overgeneralize or to treat all the same certainly not wise to charge all children as adults etc.
I think some can be helped and others never begin offending at all
i think more studies are needed and better facilities are needed etc We have to figure out why some offend or reoffend while others do not or never did
I leave you all with this fable:
An old Cherokee Chief was teaching his grandson about life…
“A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves.
“One is evil” – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, self-doubt, ego….
“The other is good” – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, faith…..
Grandfather replied:
“This same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Chief said, “The one you feed.”
Author Unknown
AJMO
Peace
I just love that Mom3.0, thank you for sharing it.
B
oops strike that.. reverse it
should have read
Grandfather said
and then
Grandfather replied
Thanks
Hi Lyndsay. The head hanging low demonstrates the shame. I reckon his lawyer told him to hang it low and keep it there until further notice. The note is apparently multiple pages and very detailed. To my knowledge it has not been made public. Anything we have seen has been changed by journalists to their own phrasing. I am jonesing to read it, unaltered. I will say that his blaming the victims for his actions shows a lack of remorse. This brings me back to attorney instructions on the drooping head thing.
Hi Redly. Zillow says his 12k house peaked at 85k in Jan. ’06. His sense of entitlement probably did have him sucking out the paper equity. Apparently, he had no exit plan or any strategy beyond the next days dollar menu spree.
Hi Blink. I am not young and pretty like you and gingers have no souls but I appreciate you letting me swim in your pond for a bit. Victimology has my attention. His “type” is late Jr. high girls. While Michelle was first, and 21, her small stature puts her on his radar.
If three rocks are thrown in a pond, the area of the overlaps and intersections of the ripples needs a microscope. The commons is a good name. Every official comment is dripping with CYA. I don’t foresee you pulling out the blamethrower but I know you have something up your sleeve beyond an arm. Waiting patiently….
So you are suggesting, (I know..Mr Obvious)..that either a victimology study was not done, and/or , is not automatic..and if done it was done poorly…or this perp would have surfaced and LE would have questioned him….
And further..as the advocate you are…you are screaming from the mountain tops that many of these perps 2nd, 3rd and so on offenses can be predicted and therefore prevented…(as some sophisticated police shows imply…)
Jeff D
I don’t know if one was done. I suspect at the local LE level it was not. I am not sure 11 years ago they were trained for same- or if they are today.
As I understand the FBI became involved circa 2004, if THEY did not preform a vic study I would be shocked. In a jurisdiction with 4 young women missing from the same general location there had better be a potential for serial offender assessment as well. That’s a public way of saying ” how do we make sure we do not have a different sort of Dahmer in our midst.”
The victimology inventory I use and have been trained to conduct and analyze will ultimately assign a risk factor to the victim, but is also designed to simultaneously provide investigation direction through it’s result.
It is truly only as good as the level of information available to put in it, and definitely the asset doing the interviewing. It requires compilation of multiple data sources into the funnel.
Preliminarily we know that we have at least Berry and DeJesus who knew the Castro daughter. Gina was last seen with her, and the set of circumstances in which she is now *not riding a bus* are related to her.
Yes, I absolutely believe that at the very least at the time of Gina’s abduction that proper investigative technique and protocol to include a vic study would have put Ariel Castro at the top of the list. I say this emphatically.
If I were a Cleveland environ, I would be asking that question. I fear that the reports we are hearing, to include the FBI saying there was a level “of consent” represent the possible litigious position of a sovereignty seeking or sovereignty enjoying party.
To all:
Does Everyone know that Gary Hiednick was raised in Cleveland, and executed only 3 years after Michelle Knight was abducted? This should have been very fresh on LE minds.
Some of us have assumed that the young women would have told the whole story to the police. These are people who have been abused for years. Both mentally and physically.
I do not believe that they can at this time give their complete story or who may have been involved in this sordid sub-human ten year abuse of three young women.
Remember the Duggard case in California. It took weeks for her to recover enough to begin to tell some of the things she experienced. At least one of the women was in such poor physical shape that she was placed in a hospital.
This man used something to lure these women into trusting him long enough to get them in a place where he was in control. When held long enough we often see the “Stockholm Syndrome” come into play. Smart and sadistic perps will drive the situation so that the victim begins to believe that the perp cares about their well being regardless of what is actually happening.
@Rose, your daughter, my daughter, and I will start a firm together. And we’ll get Reese, pre-scandal, to advise on our relative shades of blonde.
Actually, I am still perplexed why Ramsay passed up a perfectly superior Popeye’s to go to McD’s. Clearly he’s not related to Gordon.
Blink, you surprised me by mentioning your upcoming plans to feature some interesting psychological issues. I’m presenting a paper on Lanza in about a month. I wish we had private messaging so I could put everyone’s uptake on him in the hoppity hopper. My paper will be academic and I’ll not be able to investigate any primary sources further–but then again, I’ve got enough when I start at…you name it. Of course, the “I am Adam Lanza’s mother” letter will thread the piece.
(http://www.upi.com/blog/2012/12/16/I-am-Adam-Lanzas-Mother-post-goes-viral/9521355692027/)
Mental Illness is woefully misunderstood. I often worry that I am missing something in my non-compliant, mentally ill family member who, one day, may snap. How much risk are we socially willing to bear?
I am so shocked and dismayed by a video linked from CNN’s home page today. I just cannot post the link, because then it would increase the hits and encourage their irresponsible journalism.
They have so-called experts speculating, with no personal foundation, on the roles these young women would have played during their imprisonment. One expert goes so far as to say that one of the women, because she was the most attractive, would have been relegated to the sex toy role. There was more crass garbage like that, about their apparent disabilities that enabled them to be conditioned to certain behaviors.
The accompanying article is unedited and ridiculously full of errros. Many comments point out all the grammatical errors, but as a Blink-fan, I’m pretty tolerant of that. The real problem is that the “facts” are scrambled.
Just unreal that these women should be subject to reading that, and of course their families. On Mom’s day no less. Not reading it and thanks for not linking, but I appreciate you making us aware.
B
Mom 3.0, Blink and all,
I love the Cherokee story. Thank you for sharing it. I apply the same principal to my own depressive episodes, bad moods or just bad days. Try not to dwell on the bad day but be thankful that good things did happen throughout the day and it wasn’t all bad. I’m sure many of us use these methods from time to time.
Whenever something hideous happens, pick any story on Blinkoncrime, my first instict is to go back to the parents. Where were the parents of perpetrator(s)? What role did they play? They must have played role, be it abuse, neglect, all or both—these same questions go through my mind with every story. It isn’t that I want to blame, I just want it to stop. I want people to take parenting classes and have a license to have children. It will never happen.
Instead of casting my energies so far back, maybe I should keep the bulk of my energies in the present. Be vigilant. Keep my eyes open. I’m not saying that I’ll ignore history or ignore things that could have been done to stop these horrific crimes.
Forgive my rambling. This is a teaching sight and I don’t have a link to post. I can’t stop thinking about these women and Michelle Knight. Does it seem that she was singled out as the one to receive the worst treatment? I recall several cases where abusive parents single one child out to torture and abuse, while the others, likely still abused and neglected, aren’t treated as badly. “A Boy Called It” comes to mind. People who starve and abuse animals sometimes do the same thing–treat one “normally” and single one out for abuse and torture. Poor Michele.
What’s the concensus on this site? Do you think evil is nature or nurture? I do think that some people are born with genetic pulls toward darkness that can be nurtured out of them.
Hi Blink, I’m interested in what you’ve learned and studied on victimology. Unfortunately no victimology course was offered during my time thus far in grad school, so I’m wondering if there is any reading material you can recommend? thanks.
Lyndsay, this was a credentialed course with pre-reqs and strict permission for use. The case studies within, outside of Ramsey- were proprietary. Let me think on how I might research peripheral reference material that be might worthy of consideration for study and get back to you. Good question.
B
As much as I believe this perv deserves the death penalty, I hope that the state can work out a plea bargain for LWOP.
I would hate for these three young ladies to have to publicly testify about their ordeal in open court. I would hate it even more if Mr. Castro got on the stand, a la Jodi Arias, and testified about how these young temptresses repeatedly forced him into sex, and manipulated him.
Nancy Grace is probably already making plans to cover the event, and these poor women’s degradations will be repeated endlessly in the press.
You know I agree georgiaDad- these women will be put through torture all over again, and I do not even want to think about the NG exploitive angle.
B
Blink, in hindsight I am wondering what the profile for the wanted abudctor of Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus was, and if it matched the now known accused Ariel Castro. I know that Ms. Knight was treated more as a run away, so that profile would be different.
I moved to Lakewood Ohio in 1989 just when Amy Miholovic was abducted and murdered. She was my first obsession case. I followed it so closely as I was pregnant with my first child and feared such an event. We lived just blocks from where these girls Berry and DeJesus were abducted. Since 1998, we live outside of Detroit in the very city where Neveah Buchanan was murdered and buried on the banks of the Raisin River. (I have my own theory on that case).
No community is safe from these type predators. Until the public can be made aware of the profiles of predators and what to look for, I fear these crimes will continue to plague every city, town and neighborhood.
My children, the youngest now 17, were my constant companions and I was theirs. Diligence in protection is the key. Some feel over-protection is stifling. I feel it is the only way to deter.
May God bless and look upon all the missing children.
Until more investigative information is released, there is no way to know what the LE profile was originally except to say to my knowledge it did not produce the right suspect although he was POINTED OUT to them in 2004. I do NOT believe the FBI statements so far that they were never told Castro might be involved. Even if they had not- the stepfather of Castro’s daughter was a POI at one time and I can tell you as a point of fact if that was true- than the FBI will draw that imaginary drag net around him to exclude known persons. There is more we do not know than we do at the moment.
B
@Jeff: I have a scary story for you. A slick predator will make himself seem more familiar to his victim in order for them to let down their guard. My sister is a big dog person, always has been her whole life, and volunteers still with animal shelters. She asked my parents for a dog for Christmas every year since she was 3, but my dad has a lot of allergies and would not permit it. So when she was old enough she began offering her services as a dog walker to our neighbors. When she was around 11 or 12, she was tasked with dog sitting for a neighbor who lived a few streets away and was going on vacation for a couple weeks. once a day she stopped by, fed the dog and took him for a walk around the familiar neighborhoods in the small town we grew up in. Before they had left for their trip, the dog’s owners said, “if you come to our house one day and there’s a young man here, don’t be alarmed – our son said he might come home from college for a bit while we’re gone”. So my sister takes the dog out for a walk one day with this in mind. She’s walking the dog along the sidewalk not far from the dog owner’s house when a car pulls up alongside her. There is a young man driving, who engages her in conversation and is quite persistent in trying to convince her to get in the car. Her 12 year old mind thinks, “this must be the son home from college- he must recognize the dog and that’s why he’s being so friendly”. The man says, “why don’t I give you a ride?” She considers it, but the car does not appear to have room for a large dog that she believes is this man’s parents’ dog to ride in it. She asks, “what about the dog? He won’t fit in your car.” The man says, “just tie him to the tree.” My sister’s instinct and concern for animals kicks in and she says to herself, if this was really his dog, he wouldn’t want me to leave it here, and oh my God, this is not the owners’ son. She declines the ride, crosses the street quickly, and walks as fast as she can with the dog away from the car and makes sure the man is not following her. The experience stuck with her and still haunts her to this day – she still thinks about what would have happened if she had gotten in the car. The man nearly convinced her that he knew her and the dog. But caring about the dog may have ironically actually saved her life. It makes me think that’s maybe that’s why she’s so passionate about saving animals now.
Your sister listened to her satellite and perhaps it saved her life. She may have done this twice.
The first may have been when she wanted a dog so badly that she offered to walk the neighbor dogs and therefore had a level of protection when she was confronted by the man. While we focus on academics and study the statistical realities of crime- I would remind everyone to look for those tools of protection and instinct within stories like these in an effort to hone our own.
B
@ATG, you make a good point about the womens’ accounts of what happened to them not being the full story yet. There may also be some experiences that were so traumatic, they blocked them out. It happens a lot with victims of long-term trauma – it’s almost like your brain saves you from what it can’t bear to remember.