Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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Still thinking about things going wrong (“somebody screwed up”) with The Plan as it actually occurred on June 4th. I am assuming everyone agrees there was some sort of plan and Terri either made it, with or without help, or Terri was somehow the cause for The Plan to be made by somebody else.
Let’s assume The Plan had three main acts (like a play) on that day – set-up, nab, cover-up. Many ideas have been written about things working and not working right. If something went wrong, knowing in what “act” that occurred could make a difference in which direction Kyron went, and with whom, as a result. It could also make a difference in whether and when any additional people became involved.
I will put these 3 “acts” in 3 different posts in case anyone wants to rule out or add possibilities – and I hope you will.
1. Things that could have gone wrong with The Plan during the first act – “set-up”:
- witnesses who saw/didn’t see Terri, Kyron, or both together as The Plan predicted
- someone working outside at an unexpected time (maybe the groundskeeper mowing the field) with a view of the outside area usually not in anyone’s view (some extra traffic WAS expected because of the SF, but that would be in and out of the building, not the field). A food delivery truck from PPS, for example, might have parked in the back and the driver may have seen nothing to report, but he could have caused a change or delay in the plan, or caused the white truck to be moved
- maybe the truck’s starter problem (I believe that came from Kaine when asked why it was towed sometime after June 4th) was intermittent and happened that morning, requiring another person (LS or MC or ?) to come and help (not the time she’d want the truck to be towed somewhere) – and maybe that person wasn’t aware of what was going on, but found out then, also requiring some promised incentive to keep that person quiet – and maybe if the starter didn’t work properly, she decided not to turn the motor off again, requiring an adult to be in the truck whenever she was out of it (maybe even in the store parking lots) An empty vehicle with motor running has always attracted my attention and it is illegal in Oregon to leave young children (under age 10) unsupervised if their safety is at risk, therefore that would have attracted the attention of others as well.
- another person in the truck was a surprise addition or disruption to the plan, unless either she picked the person up somewhere on the way to school or met the person at school as planned
Let’s assume The Plan had three main acts (like a play) on that day – set-up, nab, cover-up. Here’s part 2.
2. Things that could have gone wrong with The Plan during the second act – “nab”:
- perhaps the truck was moved somewhere else at school after the groundskeeper left and then the starter didn’t work, requiring someone to come and take Kyron in case the truck had to be towed, leaving Terri to stay with the truck until she got it started – (worrying about having the truck towed or inoperable anytime during that morning would have been cause for panic due to the timeline and where it might have broken down)
- Kyron realized something was wrong, but he didn’t know what. (note: Kyron didn’t needed to bring his backpack to the class at all unless he didn’t know he was leaving, or expected to have an appointment and be back to finish the school day. The only reason to have his backpack and coat remain there would be for physical “proof” that he had been there and hadn’t planned to leave, or they could possibly have forgotten them, but very unlikely.)
- Kyron went (was sent) to the truck where the other person and Kiara (?) were waiting. He didn’t see anything wrong with having the other person there (probably knew or had met the person before or believed Terri’s explanation), but raised a fuss to go back and get his coat (it was a chilly day and he only had on a short sleeved T-shirt) and/or backpack, both of which had to be left in class for this plan to work. Terri normally could have reasoned with or ordered him not to go back in, but a “not-in-charge” person might not have been able to quickly change his mind and had to force him to stay in the truck – and quietly – so something happened too soon.
If Kyron were alive, well, and happy – and was spotted leaving in the truck – the whole plan could have been aborted and never found out, but if anything happened too early and there was no turning back, everything else had to be moved along as fast as possible.
melissab – they’re currently his age to mid-teen, i’ve been watching this farce of a situation for the last 8 years.
It never creates a real relationship. And I state that coming from a perspective of:
1) I have these intelligent, incredibly loving, generous, kind kids that pretty much exist at the “wonderful” end of the spectrum – really, they are, I’m luckier then heck and I know it.
2) I’ve spent since the day he abandoned us dealing with the situation dealing in the most positive way possible for the children, they don’t hear negatives from me on his behavior, they’ve been taught and encouraged to “love” him like they do me
3) It just isn’t there. None of them. And these are kids who talk to me about everything. We’re close, we communicate… and couple-weekends-a-month “dad” is a toy that oh, they enjoy – like they would anyone who takes them out to dinner or to do something fun and special – but there is no relationship.
If they don’t hear from him for a couple of weeks due to his work schedule, they don’t even wonder what’s going on. He doesn’t even cross their minds unless I bring him up.
There was discussion last fall of him moving cross country. I was worried that it would upset them. That was the day it really hit home to me, that there is just NOTHING there, no emotional commitment on the part of the kids toward him whatsoever. One even just sort of shrugged, and said something to the effect of “let’s just get rid of him, (my fiance) is a much better dad anyways”.
I was horrified. As much effort as I’ve put in to try and mitigate the damage he did with his initial abandonment and token visitations, in hope that it could ease things enough to eventually allow a strong bond, it sure the heck hasn’t accomplished much.
People like to blame the custodial parent for the non-custodial parent’s lack of relationship. We’re living proof that even when you do everything as right as possible, the destruction caused by simply not being THERE on a daily basis is not something that can be repaired.
Doing everything right will make it that much easier to have well-adjusted kids – but it isn’t going to fabricate something that doesn’t exist.
Emmy & Blink,
I agree. It is a beautiful hot summer day where children are outside with their plastic pools and playing and splashing in the water, going to the local swimming pools.
And Kaine was interviewed this morning at the Wall of Hope by one of the local TV crews. He mentioned to them that he will be shopping for school supplies this week since our schools start the day after Labor Day. Kryon’s birthday is coming up when he turns 8 years old. I pray that something will break open by Labor Day weekend and not take 9 months like the Diane Downs case did.
This case reminds me so much of the Diane Downs case in someways.
I just want to add that I recently took a course in dealing with/counseling “addicts” and the first thing the Instructor said to the class was, “How do you know when an addict is lying?” I’m sure you can guess the answer: “His/her lips are moving.”
@Phyl-Losing a child is the worst possible pain you can ever experience…. even when it is no one’s fault. Eight years later I still struggle with it every day. I can’t imagine the pain of not knowing where/how he is or losing him in such a horrible way. I think part of why I am so obsessed with Kyron is that the son I lost would be just a little bit older than Kyron if had he lived. I also have a daughter who is seven and a little one near baby K’s age.
I live across from that Fred Meyer and I shop there almost every day. We might have even been there that morning. I keep thinking I should pay more attention. I wish we’d been there and seen something, anything. I wish I could go shake TH and make her tell something. I wish I could just bring that boy back to his parents alive and well. This case is so hard. Poor Kyron and everyone in his family.
Let’s assume The Plan had three main acts (like a play) on that day – set-up, nab, cover-up. Here, then, is part 3.
3. Things that could have gone wrong with The Plan during “cover-up”:
- What if everything worked as expected in act 1 and 2, and the thing that went wrong here was not the “pass” to someone else or the miscommunication about the meeting place, but the final location. What if (please forgive and feel free not to read on) the researched and completely prepared (before June 4th) location for Kyron’s body suddenly became unavailable for some reason – mudslide, bird watchers, whatever. After putting all the effort into choosing the day and having Kryon either already dead or aware of who’s involved, this glitch could certainly have inspired the “chicken with its head cut off” response (something I remember very well from my childhood on the farm).
Something had to be done, and fast. Who knew the area well enough to choose another secure location close by? Who had tools and strength to work fast in heavy muddy soil? They all did! Who would have needed a shower afterward – only Terri who could have gone to the gym specifically for a shower and to dispose of clothing (hidden in the trash) instead of for the workout, or even for the alibi. DeDe and any other LS or outdoor person could have gone right back to what they were doing without questions about being muddy and sweaty.
Any search for a new location in such a short timeline would have to be done rapidly and with help from someone besides the person who had Kyron, even if there had been alternatives considered in advance. Presuming a burial was intended, the safest immediately known site to choose in a hurry and avoid discovery while doing it would be one’s own property, or property you (one of the group) were in control of by working or living there, even if you had to consider moving the body later.
The last to arrive should have been whoever had Kyron in case the new site didn’t work out either. The only person Terri would have trusted enough to handle the final details without her being there would have been DeDe.
– if The Plan was to keep Kyron alive and get him out of the area, there are still things that could have gone wrong in the cover-up (of the kidnapping) stage, such as the person supposed to take him did not show up, went to the wrong place, or was unreachable for some reason.
“A theory that is compatible with one person’s world view will be considered simple, clear, logical, and evident, whereas what is contrary to that world view will quickly be rejected as an overly complex explanation with senseless additional hypotheses. Occam’s razor, in this way, becomes a “mirror of prejudice.”
Dieter Gernert, Ockham’s Razor and Its Improper Use, Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 21, No. 1, pp. 135-140, (2007)
@Phyl: lol I knew there was a reason I liked you so much. It’s PORK ROLL. (Speaking of NJ jokes: 7A)
Prior to this case I have NEVER followed anything like this before. I do not know why this case grabbed me so quickly and so intensely. Now I can barely stand to wait for coffee in the AM and sign on and look for more clues, more hope, or any word at all about where Kyron may be and the players involved with this.
Blink, thanks so much for providing such a welcoming, fair minded place to discuss this case. The moderation is essential and well done, and I find myself looking eagerly for morsels of clues you may have to offer.
It is hard not to become hyperfocused on the other players, and I have to remind myself this poor child is missing. I dont know why but it has become a bit of an obsession for me in wanting to hear about his disappearance and every day I hope to sign on and see they found him.
In the meantime…thanks again Blink.
On a side note, I just read the court documents that Kaines lawyer sent to the court and just about danced across the room. Go get her Kaine! Good for him!
Anything new? Scroll and roll but just see the same ol stuff.
Phyl,
I thought I should tell you The Silver Chalice is not a book I have read, though it had good reviews. I saw it in the bookcase of a picture TH had in her fb pics. lol!
So, keep it on your list, but if its weirdo, dont think of me.
I should have been more clear in my post.
cartwheel – perhaps you and others might like to read this account of June 4th by the owner of Brooks Hill Historic Church:
http://srnpdx.org/events-brooks-hill-historic-church
http://www.brookshill.com/aboutus.cfm
The Brooks Hill Historic Church is not a church any longer. It was purchased and restored by Cindy Lou Banks who, I believe, lives downstairs and rents the upstairs old church area for weddings, community meetings, etc. She is a country singer/songwriter and has done remarkable things as a community member to help with this case, but I’m not sure the Wall would work well there.
I do think a local church that is still functioning as a church would be a great place to move the Wall. PPS district headquarters doesn’t sound that great to me – I’ve been there. It’s hard to get to, hard to park near, often crowded and used by others who rent space (budget cuts), and close to where huge events take place (like concerts and basketball games), making traffic even worse. I hated the inconvenience of going there when I was an employee (at another building) unless I absolutely had to. I hope another site is chosen, but if not, I’m sure people will still find a way to participate.
Blink,
HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, could a person use funds that MAY have been obtained criminally, to fund their defense? I mean can that be counted against them whe they have not been convicted of the crime yet?
( you know what I mean?)
Short answer of a question deserving a long one mon frier-
Yes, provided they are not convicted of the crime that may have netted such proceeds, abstract or otherwise, I recommend a Nebbia hearing.
B
@Phyl…I like the way your thinkin’ on the hair thing, only problem is those pesky little hairs “float” around, and if TH was around DD alot then it could just be transference I would think from DD to TH. I would think it could be agrued away in court. HOWEVER, if there was special soil used in DD’s landscaping job that happened to be in TH’s truck or on a personal item of Kyron’s I would think THAT would be a very powerful piece of evidence. (DNA wouldn’t apply with that though) But what do I know?
Oh..and once I found out that there wasn’t a secret Dairy Farmer’s of America code goin’ on with all the “moo’in”…I found it quite liberating to moo myself! So lemme add my “MOO” for the above paragraph while I’m thinkin’ of it!
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
Ok…one thing that really jumps out at me in this case is Terri’s email where she says “He was seen with a man chaperone”.
Personally, I believe there was a “man” there, and he is the one who took Kyron out of the school, per Terri’s plan. She wanted someone to see him with the man.
Her truck is parked on the access road because she is waiting for “the man” to leave with Kyron. I don’t think she would tell Kyron to leave the school and come outside on his own, because there would be too much of a chance of someone seeing him/stopping him. Someone removed him from the school. But, Terri needed to leave alone. DD was not there that early. “The man”, in my opinion, was.
I think FM was supposed to be the meeting place for whatever reason. But “the man” did not show up there. Now, she starts to panic, and calls on her friend, DD, for help. Thinking maybe he went to the other FM, she headed there, and waited around for a while.
I think something went wrong with her plan….she did panic, and she kept her phone on in case “the man” called to tell her where he was. Otherwise, she would have turned off the phone, in my opinion. I don’t think anyone who plans something out like this would be stupid enough to keep their phone on.
I am also unclear on whether or not she actually went to the gym. I am wondering if they have witnesses who say she was there. And, if so, I would be curious to know how she was acting at that point.
Anyway, all JMO.
Two more children drowned in a car in SC. Car was in neutral, mother wasn’t even wet. They were one and two yrs old. She said it was an accident but authorities say it’s suspicious.
Missing 4 yr old boy in AZ found safe after 18 hours.
Blink sez:
wth?
Sorry but who says “queer” anymore?
oye vey.
B
Blink, the queer community, that’s who uses it. In a ‘take back the hurtful word’ way. Reclaiming, like.
On the ‘Outreach’ page of the local gay/lesbian/ paper at justout dot com, the word is used in 27 listings.
There is nothing nefarious about the community on Newberry. Another victim of this case (which is why I am not linking the newspaper). If you want to read more about their type of arrangement, google co-housing (common in the Portland area for many years).. this group just happens to be currently made up of people who like people of the same gender.
Nothing freaky to see here, peeps.. carry on.
No offense intended, but I have plenty of gay friends or colleagues, I have never heard that word in basic conversation, but I respect the initiative to not make it offensive.
B
#7 says malty says
I am malty. And I did not post that. ????
Uhoh.
Will check it out.
B
@mockingbird…can you add a forth act to include: “The Discovery”, did that go according to plan? Such as
Did she expect Desiree to come that night?
Did she expect the FBI to be called that night?
Did she expect to have to account for her time after 10am?
Did she expect the bat phones to be found?
thanks
Chickel,
What a very interesting observation you had. Indeed, what if there was someone who claimed to be a sub and they were not! Perhaps Tanner could TRY and give a description at this point. Or maybe he already has. I can’t recall if volunteers were leading the groups of 6, but I think I recall either rumor or fact that the person in charge of Kyron’s group noticed at one point he was no longer with the group.
Sorry you did not sleep well.
I’m sure these folks are upstanding citizens, but considering what’s going on with this investigation I believe I’d change my website IMMEDIATELY, if not sooner. Don’t you think??
“a cabin in the woods for mysterious shots”
“a magnificent location with many options for video vignettes”
Set on 40 acres of Oregon heaven, _________ has every natural and meditative setting for your video or photographic project – 15 minutes from downtown Portland!
Blink: If I were her counsel, my first question would be how they aquired the text message, and I have a feeling LE would not be overly thrilled at the answer. I want Kyron found, and I want justice for Kaine as far as what this women has done to him personally, but I have a prosecutorial concern the family court is overreaching right now and could be forced to release investigative information.
The image from the paperwork didn’t copy here in my view. Footnote 1, bottom of Page 1 of Petitioner’s Reply – posted online several places. It states the message was provided by Law Enforcement.
I don’t think they have to ask how Kaine’s attorney acquired the message since it’s in the document. I’m sure they knew Kaine would use it, so LE must think it was worth any risk to give it to him. I assumed they have court permission to monitor everything she does, but I can see where revealing what you find to someone not in LE is a horse of a different color.
But, I also wondered if perhaps MC gave his permission to have his email texts with Terri monitored in order to look cooperative. He, to my knowledge, never even hinted he was in love with her or even that he found her attractive, and in fact, made a point of saying he didn’t actually have sex with her. I doubt if he’s loyal to anyone except himself and he has more to gain by being open and appearing to provide his weird sort of “help” (as he has from June 4th) rather than getting sucked into the Bermuda Triangle of Terri, DeDe, and LS Rudy. It may be a mistake, but nobody seems to take him too seriously as an “accomplice type” right now.
So, if MC gave his permission to LE to acquire his text messages (saying he had nothing to hide) and his permission to share this one with Kaine’s attorney, does that make it less of a problem (relating to Terri) so that the inquiry into its origin would stop there? And could his cooperation be why people keep saying Kaine hasn’t removed him from his list of Facebook friends as he has others? And does the fact that this is family court and not criminal court so the standards of evidence are not the same, make a difference?
If LE said it is an issue, Kaine’s attorney could just withdraw the motion since Kaine isn’t likely to get money out of Terri anyway. I still think she has a hidden bank account or source of money somewhere. Doesn’t matter if it was $350,000 or $30,000, she already said she didn’t have enough money to move or make a deposit on an apartment. If they can prove she has intentionally lied to any court, they’ll have something they didn’t have before.
I don’t know why she wouldn’t just go in and say she lied to MC, hoping he’d loan her some money. Lying to a “friend” isn’t illegal even if it is tacky.
Houze has to keep records of all the money he receives from clients in his client trust accounts and record how he is spends it, returning what isn’t used after the conclusion of a case. He’s accountable to the Oregon Bar for doing that. I could see where he could be asked to tell the court how much she paid him, but not her source of the money if it’s an issue of client-attorney privilege. Then the court could ask her if any of the money came from marital assets and she could say no, but I don’t see how they could ask her to prove where she did get the money if Kaine can’t show any loans or other changes in his finances.
However – this is a big one – perhaps a hidden bank account (stock, property, or whatever) where she kept money made from (yuck) the sale of her pictures or whatever, would not been included in joint tax returns and Kaine and Terri jointly could end up owing tons of extra tax money and penalties, so that while Kaine may not get money from her or have her money be considered a marital asset (if she has any, of course), he could end up being hurt financially if she does have money he doesn’t know about and never claimed as income. Arrrrgh. Somebody tell me I’m wrong. But that alone tells me he has a right to know if she has money he didn’t know about.
@Maat and Blink: I agree that I don’t think gays are any more accepting of attacks against children.
JFTR there is a series called “queer as folk” which is mainly about gay men. I believe that is why the resurgence of “queer”.
Why did Teri even go to the gym? After driving a sick baby around for 90 minutes, she should of just went home.
Was she dirty and needed to take a shower and didn’t want any “debris” found in her drain?
Did someone need the truck for an hour so they dropped Teri off at the gym?
Was she working off nervous energy?
She screwed up, she should have said: the baby was sick, therefore I didnt stay till the end of the science fair, I went for medicine, drove her around until she fell asleep…didnt want to wake her so I kept driving for 90 minutes then went home at 11:40 because I had to feed her, didnt go pick up the project because she was sick. She left her own gap for 90 minutes. {BTW, when in Teri’s timeline from 0800 to 3:30 does state she feeds the baby?}
@Blink re: TMH lawyer asking for source of said text messages.
Recall if you will that Kaine filed that Terri violated the restraining order based on MC having photos of the pic on his phone. It was at that time that it was discovered that Terri had been sexting MC. My guess is the paperwork is all from the same subpoenaed evidence.
No she wasnt charged with a crime but as long as they are married, Kaines lawyer was right to say that he has no way to move on financially, emotionally and in any way a normally single person should be/would be able to move on.
Moo
Agreed totally, but it still has to follow the “track” of the case.
B
10.Malty says:
August 16, 2010 at 8:36 pm
#7 says malty says
I am malty. And I did not post that. ????
Uhoh.
Will check it out.
B
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I didnt think that sounded like you!
I know who it sounded like though.
Part of Blink’s comment to:
MockingbirdSings says:
August 16, 2010 at 4:54 pm
“If I were her counsel, my first question would be how they acquired the text message, and I have a feeling LE would not be overly thrilled at the answer.”
****************************
My guess would be that Michael Cook was a sort of undercover scout for Kaine to discover things about Terri that would be almost impossible to find out otherwise, and then relay those “facts” back to Kaine. Since MC is still on Kaine’s facebook friends list, I would think that might be a clue to the meaning of their “friendship”, especially after all the weird stuff that went down between TH and MC.
But because of that scenario, if true, then I think it would point to Kaine knowing quite a bit more about Terri’s personality and moral compass than he has let on. He has said that she showed no signs of anything in the past, or recently, that would have made him think she would harm himself, Ky or their family. If he truly did get MC to do this “job” for him (MOO of course), then he would have known that she would suck up pretty much ANY other males attention, to the degree of doing or saying anything(even sexual) to whoever was showing her that attention she so desperately craved. So I feel that, sadly enough, Kaine knew a lot more about how Terri got what she wanted, including with him. Not his fault, of course-no one wants to admit things like that.
It seems as though TH has used sex in various forms as a bargaining tool or leverage for most of her adult life. I’ve known people like that, and unluckily for them when age started creeping up-they lost that way of fitting in or being the center of attention. Then, if they had created no other ways of interacting with people they were s**t out of luck.
Now, I’m still not saying that would mean TH is THE guilty party or just one of the guilty parties, even once or twice removed in this case. But Kaine may be getting an inkling of just what kind of vampires his family was exposed to, by TH being the way she was.
So maybe Kaine felt he had to get MC to do this to get info that was not forthcoming any other way. Would LE like it? No way. Would I, as a parent have done this (or even WAY more unsavory things), to get potential info on my missing child and the person I thought was responsible? You bet your a**!
@satori…well I was thinking about the occam’s without the razor comment that Blink made. The only theory that I’ve seen that didn’t require “the razor” to me was Tanner’s statement about the sub. All the other theories have to many “what if’s” in them.
I appreciate the feed back though from you and other’s. It’s weird but it puts my mind at ease to share that here. Thanks folks!
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
I know Blink banned linking to the “criminal content” video that was out there. So, without naming that thing that will not be mentioned, why the heck would anyone create such a piece?
A part of me wondered if there is something the producer/writer is getting at, in terms of go look at the Google street view of the streets named by law enforcement. I did, but I can’t find the scandalous content alleged by this author/producer.
The only thing I did find was a car with a roof image blacked out by a redaction, and I believe this car is the Google street view car.
http://bassem-ghali.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/immersive-car.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/05/25/article-1281353-052E708A000005DC-700_468x377.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1281353/Google-Street-View-greatest-breach-history-privacy.html
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01381/google_streetviewC_1381623c.jpg
My personal fave is “Google Street View Gets Pulled Over”:
http://angryweb.wordpress.com/2009/03/04/google-street-view-gets-pulled-over/
There is no single model of car used for Google street view, FYI.
The bottom like that I saw was that the author/producer was putting up every possible scenario into one storyline that made sense, provided you are wearing a tinfoil hat.
Not having a tinfoil hat myself, I was not so enamored with the video. I was even less enamored after spending several hours trying to find the Google street view to back up the heart of the claims made within the video.
The more recent video posted by the same account on youtube.com is not nearly as bizarre.
My only parting thought is “what if”: What if the video is really intended to derail the grand jury? It would take a seriously viral video to ensure the information got to grand jurors. This video seems to aim in that direction.
Or, it could be a piece designed to deflect attention from someone. Was there someone getting too much attention in recent weeks that would benefit from redirecting attention back on the stepmother and her friends?
Just my thoughts on the matter.
@LPB says: August 16, 2010 at 9:39 am “It’s being speculated on SM that TH met Kaine through being a topless dancer or something now.”
If that’s true then all you might have Kaine Horman for is bad taste. (Have you seen the photos of Terri Horman with the 1980s hairdo? OMG!)
@Malty says: August 16, 2010 at 3:00 pm “Well I called my relatives in Spokane to watch for Kyron no one up there in my family has computers. So they not to familar with this case but just maybe Kyron is there”
Really? Spokane is the second largest city in Washington state. Spokanites are following Kyron just as closely as everyone else in the Northwest. Spokane is just as “wired” for Internet as Portland, too. So, with all due respect to your relatives, they are not the average demographic of Spokane.
Spokane even has *two* Fred Meyers, and there are a zillion Starbucks, too! There’s a McDonald’s on every street corner (or at least it feels that way), and all the kids in Spokane are “slightly above average.”
@Blink wrote: “I am confused. I agree that those funds have to be accounted for, but there are no interrogatories filed by either party in the divorce, and this “debt” if you will, is entered POST separation. If I were her counsel, my first question would be how they aquired the text message, and I have a feeling LE would not be overly thrilled at the answer. I want Kyron found, and I want justice for Kaine as far as what this women has done to him personally, but I have a prosecutorial concern the family court is overreaching right now and could be forced to release investigative information. You can’t file these motions and expect them to be sealed every time. Like it or not, Terri has NOT been charged with a crime folks.”
Well said! This is just another ticky-tack motion from Kaine’s attorney Laura Rackner. Any honest divorce lawyer can tell you about attorneys who file motions after motions, bleeding their client dry, only to drop them when the client’s money runs out.
Ms. Rackner’s motions are not moving the litigation forward, and they are not likely to get Kaine what he wants.
Ms. Rackner is the type who files a motion because it’s Tuesday, and she heard Terri wears pink underwear on Tuesday, and gosh, given that Kyron is still missing, Kaine has gotta know where Terri got that pink underwear, who paid for it, and whether sending a secret message to others who may be involved in Kyron’s disappearance?
It’s really a shame that Terri doesn’t have a more aggressive attorney helping her with her matter. There is no reason she should not at least have supervised visitation so that she can maintain a relationship with Kiara.
I haven’t heard one peep about Terri’s parents being a problem. Is there some reason Kaine would refuse to allow Terri’s parents to supervise contacts with Kiara, other than to irreparably damage Kiara’s natural love and affection for her mother?
Like it or not, both parents have rights. Kiara is not a toy. She is a little girl who until June 4, had two parents that she saw every day. Yanking a child away from a parent and severing that relationship is disruptive and harmful to the child.
Kaine even admits that he had no reason to complain about Terri until recently. I personally do not buy the sincerity of Kaine’s claims that he had concerns about Terri in the months leading up to Kyron’s disappearance, in light of the fact that he obviously trusted her to take Kyron to school and care for him day in and day out while he was at work.
The kind of complaints Kaine talks of now ring hollow when you look at them in light of what was actually going on with the day-to-day parenting duties.
If Kaine thinks he is winning by cutting Terri off from seeing Kiara at all, he is wrong. He is only making mom all the more attractive. Here’s why: If mom sucks, and the kid can see it for herself, then the child has reached her own conclusion and there is no blow-back n dad.
On the other hand, if dad cuts the kid off from mom, it doesn’t solve the problem that the child knows deep down inside that half of what she is comes from her mom. So, when the kid figures out that she has a mom, and that she wants to know her, dad gets put in the position of keeping the kid from mom, and dad loses.
The same scenario works in the reverse: If dad sucks, the kid still needs to see dad, unless there is a threat to the child’s psychological well being or physical safety that cannot be overcome by restrictions and/or supervision on parenting time.
In light of what has gone on between Terri and Kaine, you sure gotta wonder how he treated Desiree during their divorce. Why is it that nobody bothered to follow up on Desiree’s restraining order application in which she alleged that Kaine was a threat and likely to kidnap both her children?
Not saying that Kaine had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance, but there is something inherently important about listening to Desiree’s thoughts on Kaine prior to the current situation with Kyron.
Has anyone considered that TH took KY to school, stayed a short bit and told him she was leaving b/c the baby was ill. Meanwhile, another known female arrives after, gains Ky’s attention and says come quick, your mom and Kiara were in an accident, come with me. She takes him, with her to meet Terri who is at or near FM. Once there, they could say whatever to him, TH does her alibi things, and they move on. Rough around the edges in detail I know, but our other female could do that and make her work appearance, and then leave work there after. Anyway, I am trying to place DD at the school as well as TH that morning.( my newest theory). They dont know her from what we know, so she might go undetected other than by Kyron. They may have even changed vehicles at the school, so Kyron left in the truck, but with a different driver. That way TH says she parked at X, she did, and it was DD who parked at Y.
Went to the Wall again before it was taken down, really full of stuff (i hadn’t been there in quite awhile) it impacted me a lot more than just hearing and seeing the photos, even though I had been there before. Also the empty school setting was very lovely, but very eerie, knowing what we know, very rural feel in the setting with lots of fields around, a barn next door, not as protected by piopulations at all as many schools in town. There just seems like an infinite amount of places to put someone, including meeting up and taking off to points anywhere. LE seems to have some info about the area based on maybe witness testimony, but I think some cell phone call; these are vague things I have heard. Gotta stock up for Houze though!
I don’t know whether it is just typing errors, but I am thinking #34 was meant as an answer to me, rather than to quote my words as Id didn’t write that. And I do understand all that without telling stories, I just also know some people who got into it (they call it exotic dancing) briefly relatively speaking. The economy of Oregon is really bad and has been for a long time, yet people continue to come because of various reasons, i.e. “culture,” means different things to different people.
I think we are experiencing some slight cultural differences here, due to locations, age and sub-groups,etc. Some of us are more exposed to things and words than others. Western Oregon is the West Coast, very liberal generally, especially around Eugene, Portland and Medford/Ashland. Eastern Oregon is generally not. But we all agree that criminal behavior has occurred and the boy needs to come home!
Also learned today that if one wants to throw a body in the water and keep it there, it needs to be very heavily weighted down or it will likely pop up again, even concrete could break apart.
@melissab – is there anyway you would be willing to also recommend me to Scared Monkeys as I have been waiting and have stuff to say as a local, thanks (name I picked for Monkeys is MonkeyFlowe, thought you should have a monkey name)
MOOOOOOOOOOO (maybe some day I’ll tell the cow joke…)
I would think, re: occam’s razor, that we start with the person who took Ky from school. Don’t we?
Well, Blink has given us clues that say we should look to one of the two gentlemen whose photos she posted, who are with RS Landscape Maintenance. Yes?
Because we have virtually NO info. about them, however, it gives us not much to discuss. Whereas, media has supplied us with some things to play with while these 2 gentlemen are already being detained. There’s the main clue. Start there.
(We could just tell jokes till some info. about them becomes available! LOL)
10.Malty says:
August 16, 2010 at 8:36 pm
#7 says malty says
“I am malty. And I did not post that. ????
I didnt think that sounded like you!
I know who it sounded like though.” – snapoutmalty, LOL
P.S. decided to upgrade blog name from amychicka to TerriYucky – no offense to anyone, just reflecting misery and disgust associated with this (yet, another) case of missing child and most likely involvement of TH in disappearance of Kyron. 10 weeks and no trace of kid and no suspect…
To Zeus re MC and Kaine – I totally agree – if MC did not have the KH connection, I think MC would have been sucked into something more even if only out of curiosity. He’s no “John Wayne”, but he seems to have kept his feet on solid ground.
I have always thought that someone could have come up to the West Door near Kyron’s classroom and knocked on the door. Whatever child opened it could have been pulled out pretty quickly. What if that was the plan? Terri said she watched Kyron walk down the hall toward his classroom and waved goodbye. What if it wasn’t a goodbye wave but a signal to whoever was waiting at the far door. Terri went out the front (south) entrance, while the accomplice knocked on the west door just as Kyron neared it. He recognized the person and opened the door, only to be spirited away. The truck was parked at the bottom of the stairs, near the soccer field, for a quick get away and they could have picked up Terri on Skyline. The groundskeeper would have been an unforeseen obstacle, but texting would have let Terri know when and if the groundskeeper left.
Since the school is in such a lovely pastoral setting, I’ll MOO too.
Madame Clouseau says:
2) TH did not appear distraught or particularly distracted to AL because she knew Kyron was missing and was somehow OK with it. Therefore, I am having a hard thinking that option 1 is possible.
The simpler explanation to me, however, is that Terri and DeDe were directly involved with whatever happened to Kyron.
———————-
Since TH was the first to engage in conversation was was the deciding factor from my point of view. How coincidental was it that AL was at the store to begin with? (I didn’t actually catch if this was the gal at starbucks working that day)
I still can’t get behind the implications of TH’s motivations to do this for child porn or anything gross like that. I think it’s simple and straightforward why she did this: She was unhappy. JMO, I think its because she has the hates for someone fierce.
Going back to the first presser, I forget where — but at one point I think I saw her rolling her eyes when the word “family” was mentioned. To me that’s motive, in plain sight. And the end result was a two-fold blow. One to DY first, then Kaine second. She is one nasty B.
@Mdm. C : Totally agree that it was TH/DD responsible for the majority of the day, with the remote possibility that it was the ‘mystery’ man she spoke of in her email (as someone else pointed out) — that makes sense to me using Occam’s Razor.
This mystery man *could* be one of the dudes in the Gray Bar Hotel but my guess is they also could be held there for reasons other than Kyron’s disappearance. Maybe its immigration issues? Would they hold for that?
I’m wondering what the next steps are at this point in the case?
Okay Flowe, Klaas says you’re in. No big thanks needed…a few bucks, dinner, Louboutins, your first born, not too much! Just kidding! I’m tired, gettin stupid and gotta go to bed. Goodnight Blink and Blinksters! Gotta mention the fish bones are just too darn cute if you haven’t seen em!
~Mockingbird–Brava on your 3-Act play…I can hear your wheels turning.
Best, though, is the Dieter Gernert quote. Oh, how I’ve wanted to voice that but didn’t have the words. You have certainly broadened my view with his explanation and caution:
“A theory…compatible with one person’s world view will be considered simple, clear, logical, and evident, whereas what is contrary to that world view will quickly be rejected as an overly complex explanation with senseless additional hypotheses. Occam’s razor, in this way, becomes a “mirror of prejudice.”
@Phyl, that reminds me of your theory/hypothesis question. Although I’m trained in the Scientific Method, I’m of a literary/creative mind and am certainly not a grammarian.
A theory is generated from a hypothesis, which is a proposed explanation of an observed phenomena. That differs from plain common sense (developed from repeated experience of fact) or an unobserved or possibly baseless conjecture: my bones ache so it’s going to rain sort of thing. Clearly it differs from a mysticism of the will of the universe (god, allah, jesus, et al).
@KB in Oregon–I hear you. I keep challenging myself to remember what car I parked next to and who I saw on my various outings. I’m at such a loss! Now if I planned to have an alibi, I’d definitely have it covered….
@mhj 8:23pm
You quoted the TH email about leaving Kyron with a “man chaperone” and I believe that statement analysis tells us there is truth in all lies.
There was a man there who she released her stepson to. He knew what he was to do, as was their plan.
If there was a meeting place it was at a Fred Meyer, away from the security cameras, against a stone wall.
@Eloise (“E” as I fondly call you) I’m glad you clarified your non-reading of S.Chalice. I had such a disconnect from what you write and how you read. whew. Not that SChalice is such a bad book or anything, but I always thought you were historically more far-reaching. (Since this is such a long post, I may escape the defacto scorn.)
@Mock–I have to vehemently disagree. The leaked text messages and emails are part of Discovery. They are not general knowledge. They are not credible in Family Court. It’s a travesty that Laura considered that fair gain for her argument. I am in the Horman’s fan section, but do not want to see Lady Justice’s skirt up in any way or form.
As for a hidden bank account, it’s doubtful. That woman spent all she could on herself. They lived in that little house without improvements, she relished her red mustang and squirrel status.
All in all, they lived an unfocused life. You can’t be a daily Fred Meyer shopper and have a huge nest egg…MOO.
Oh, and Blink’s answer to you about the Nebbia hearing–ha! You can post bond and still not get out if the State/Feds believe you’ve paid for that with–oh, shoot, what’s the word, illgotten means? Criminal conduct provided the money, maybe? Well, the proof is on the Defendant, not the State/Feds!
evie, I agree. Being a West Coast resident, it seems the media makes more of the word Queer than any regular gay or lesbians do. “Queer Eye for the Single Guy” was a great TV show helping guys to dress, behave,ook, decorate, in a way that would make them approachable to women. There is a column in a Portland, Oregon, paper called Queer Window (i think) and it’s popular. I only know of the writer through food forums, but got the message anyway.
A theory has usually been defined as a thought-framework based on fact, repeated observation, tested hypotheses…mathematical law (I had a lot of trouble with this) and so forth.
So, I’m not sure if you had a theory or hypothesis!
Science-kids, please weigh in on this as I’m creating as I go!
(Let’s ride bikes!)
general primer on how common and across all backgrounds pedophilia tendencies are – here older kids are targeted (still pedophiles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFZc2CuCor4
oops, it was the typing and pasting that goofed up my post.
{ah, sure, I’m not admitting to the bike riding…or however you
spel it!)
I’ve been waiting at SM for awhile too. leakey is the user name I chose. I also chose it for my ChaCha guide name because I give out information and it’s an anagram of my first name.
Beejay,
Like another poster implied, I wake up every day Jonsing to know what the heck is going on. It is so hard to be patient. It is so hard to wait for Kyron’s return home.
This is the first time I have ever followed a case like this. Sure, I may catch headlines about this story or that story and will access them when in my face, but I actually go to reputable sites to learn the latest about Kyron. I do live in Oregon and I do have a child a school year behind Kyron. It is heartbreaking to me. And yet I know there are so many other children out there missing and I am not reading about them in particular. I could not possibly. And I have dedicated more time to reading in anticipation of good news than I have extra time for.
This is a VERY HORRIBLE story I am about to tell. It was perhaps 3 weeks ago. I was outside with my daughter having some water fun, and I saw my neighbor and her daughter. The daughter said, “Did you hear they found Kyron?” I said, “WHAT!!” I was in total shock as she said, “Yeah, they found him covered in bruises and scratches. They rushed him to the hospital and are trying to learn who took him and what happened to him.” They both said that they just heard it on the news minutes ago. I literally flipped out.
I interrupted the water fun and raced in to this site. I did not see ANYTHING about it. I was so antsy, and I almost posted, “Kyron was found alive.” I did a search however, and found NOTHING on this alleged news.
I thought, “Oh, it is just too soon for it to be out anywhere.” I ran for the TV about the alleged breaking news. I was not finding anything. And frankly, we are without cable at the moment, so local news is all we have. NOHTHING. I watched World News, just in case. NOTHING. Then I thought, “Oh, they are trying to protect the family right now. Everything is just too sensitive.”
Well, frankly, I think the daughter has a bit of a lying problem and the Mom somehow backed her. When they returned from where they were previously, I saw them pull up and said, “I did not find anything about Kyron being found at all.” They still insisted. Needless to say, we do not converse. They did everything except put their hand on the Bible about it.
It was the biggest let down and the biggest drop from an adrenalinn rush I think I have ever had. There are a LOT of sick people out there. But I thought to myself, “Oh my God….I almost posted this on a CREDIBLE SITE!!!!!! In fact, I HAD MENTIONED to this family previously that I was following this case on a VERY credible site. Sick people. I can’t tell you all how upset I was and was very glad I did not post out of pure joy and adrenalin.
[This is tough to write – you have a choice not to read it.]
@mjh – I really appreciate your comments about the “man chaperone”. I was rereading “I Know You Are Lying” by Mark McClish and thinking that just because we all know Terri lies, it doesn’t mean she doesn’t tell anything that is true, she just doesn’t obviously tell the parts that incriminate her. (Maybe that’s why she said so little from the beginning.)
I wonder if she wrote “He was seen with a man.” and then added “chaperone”. Most people would have said “male chaperone”. Maybe she wanted us to know he was with a man, but added chaperone because otherwise we might blame her for not checking on who the man was and making sure Kyron was safe – she had to give him a respectable role to play. She didn’t check, because she already knew who the man was and, as you can see below, she didn’t seem him as a threat to Kyron.
I also wonder if she expected people to give more credibility to what children said about what they saw and was frustrated that an adult or 2 didn’t see the man – so she was trying to get it across with the email.
Are you thinking that the man who took Kyron was supposed to give him to Terri at the access road and then they all drive away? Maybe Terri planned to do something bad to Kyron, but maybe she just planned to make Kaine panic for awhile by not answering her phone, thinking the school would notice when he wasn’t there at ten and call her (she wouldn’t answer) and then call Kaine at work. He wouldn’t call the police until he had finally reached her at which time she could end the whole “mix-up”, having succeeded in hurting Kaine. (Much simpler than a ransom plan and trying to get Kaine killed delivering a ransom, etc.)
She probably didn’t expect DY to get a call from the school at all. Maybe the doctor appt story really was confused and can be “shaved off” the plan. And just maybe, she didn’t expect to need an alibi because Kyron would be with her and she could claim it was all a misunderstanding.
Suppose the man who took Kyron didn’t stop at the access road because he said it was too risky, but really, he (and another man with him) changed his mind. They decide by phone to meet at a FM, but the man really doesn’t intend to meet, won’t answer his phone again, and has other plans for Kyron who does not reappear anywhere. It takes Terri awhile to figure this out. Her receipts are a product of nervousness and waiting. Kiara gets restless in the carseat for so long and she decides to give her some infant Benadryl to make her sleepy.
DeDe comes to help. They are unsuccessful. Terri is frustrated and angry, but still trusts her “man” to follow the plan she paid for. They both realize something is wrong but don’t know what to do except give up and wait to hear something. Instead, Terri hears nothing and then comes the 911 call and she’s not able to keep trying to contact the man.
The second man takes off with Kyron and has a huge headstart thanks to Terri and the school policy about calling. At some point, probably not too far away, he hurts Kyron in ways we don’t want to think about, dumps him, and continues running – but is picked up out of state. Perhaps he paid the first man to let him do this or to keep quiet, or threatened him in some way.
So – we have a very simple plan:
Woman decides to use boy to hurt father.
Her chosen man (paid accomplice LS) takes boy from school in the company of man #2.
Chosen man is to give boy back to her right away (at access road).
Boy will be home by end of school day knowing nothing about being “missing”.
But:
Man #2 is a pedophile and arranges to keep boy for himself, man #1 stops answering calls.
Woman calls friend (who knew of her “harmless” plan) to search, they don’t succeed.
Results:
Woman can’t tell without implicating herself and doesn’t know exactly what happened to Kyron. Considers herself a victim too. Knows man will not tell because he is more responsible for this than she is, in her mind. Knows Friend will not tell because of her loyalty and she doesn’t see the Friend as guilty of anything but trying to help.
Friend can’t tell without implicating Woman and herself which she won’t do, and doesn’t know exactly what happened to Kyron either. Friend does not see Woman as deserving legal charges.
Man #1 can’t tell without implicating himself in something much worse, because he essentially sold or handed over a child knowing what would happen. He becomes a sort of “good guy” later when he talks about the MFH plan and cooperates.
Man #2 is long gone on the 4th and isn’t going to confess. He would never have had access to Kyron if it hadn’t been for Terri. When picked up later, there is no evidence to tie him to Kyron.
I am so sorry to write this, but it is the first complete story that makes sense to me start to finish, is really very simple to follow, and fits the personalities of all the characters (assuming man #2 is a pedophile). It also makes the job of LE much more difficult. If Kyron is gone, I believe he now knows from heaven how many people truly care for him.
Sorry but, imo, if Terri can arrange to have her husband murdered AND is responsible for the disappearance of her stepson, I can certainly see a case made for her being a danger to Kiara.
Granted it seems like Kiara is the only person Terri cares about; so she might not ever harm her. But, either way, I believe her actions towards Kaine and Kyron means she forfeits any rights to see Kiara.
I have a hard time imagining that Kyron would leave with Rudy, or the other landscaper, alone. From what little we know, Kyron apparently may have been acquainted with Rudy, but I really don’t think they were super-close best buddies or anything. He probably was familiar with him from the school.
I mean, Kaine didn’t even know Terri had hired a LS for the house, so odds are Rudy didn’t interact with Kyron at home, otherwise I’m sure it would’ve come out to Kaine eventually. So, I doubt Kyron knew him too well or saw him very often; just familiar enough that he wouldn’t freak out if approached.
Either way, I still believe if Terri sent Kyron out to the truck it was to meet her. In that case, Kyron might not have found it too weird if Rudy was there with Terri.
However, I go back to the idea that I can’t picture Terri leaving Kiara in the truck with Rudy; first because I don’t think she would trust a potential husband-murderer/child-killer a good babysitter for her baby; and two, because I think it would be kinda risky for Rudy to be seen in/getting in Terri’s truck.
Since he had done some work at the school (And I’m not sure we know how much/often he worked there), there’s the potential that someone would’ve noticed him in/around Terri’s truck. I don’t think they’d take that chance of someone remembering later on that Rudy was in Terri’s vehicle the morning Kyron went missing.
Rather, for Kyron’s ‘comfort’ and not to arouse suspicion, I think it’s more likely the person in the truck with Kiara was a friend of the family; possibly MC, but most likely a female. Someone like DeDe would not be intimidating/scary to Kyron, and being someone who didn’t have kids at Skyline, she would not be recognized by employees or kids/parents there that day.
I’m not saying it was DeDe in the truck; especially if she was accounted for at work, but any close friend of Terri’s would likely be unknown to any potential witnesses at the school, and yet known to Kyron to the point where he would trust getting in a vehicle with them.
@newsatfive
as I said my relatives do not do computers
I have been to Spokane many times it is a beautiful place
I just happen to have a large branch of our family there who don’t
believe in electronics
other than that they are normal LOL. I hope,anyway
they need to watch for Kyron
I wish I had the money I spent on electronics in the bank
unlike my relatives I like electronics to much
and I like Spokane WA
@newsatfive
there is hope I also have lots of family on the Oregon coast
they all have electronics. And better be looking for Kyron to
LOL
newsat5 says:
“It’s really a shame that Terri doesn’t have a more aggressive attorney helping her with her matter. There is no reason she should not at least have supervised visitation so that she can maintain a relationship with Kiara.”
———————–
That depends entirely upon what information LE/the courts have regarding her involvement in the disappearance of Kyron. The family and (possibly) criminal courts will sort this out.
newsat5:
“Is there some reason Kaine would refuse to allow Terri’s parents to supervise contacts with Kiara, other than to irreparably damage Kiara’s natural love and affection for her mother?”
—————————
Terri lives with her parents; therefore, it would unwise and perhaps unlawful (given the current RO) to grant the grandparents a supervisory role in allowing TH visitations.
newsat5:
In light of what has gone on between Terri and Kaine, you sure gotta wonder how he treated Desiree during their divorce. Why is it that nobody bothered to follow up on Desiree’s restraining order application in which she alleged that Kaine was a threat and likely to kidnap both her children?”
————————–
Desiree has been in contact with LE daily for months now. If she felt her past issues with Kain were pertinent to Kyron’s disappearance, she (and LE) have had numerous opportunities to “follow up” on that. Obviously, this is not a concern for Desiree.
newsat5:
“Like it or not, both parents have rights. Kiara is not a toy. She is a little girl who until June 4, had two parents that she saw every day. Yanking a child away from a parent and severing that relationship is disruptive and harmful to the child.”
————————-
There appears to be a strong possibility that it was she, Terri, who was involved in a situation that “yanked away” Kyron from his parents, “severing that relationship”, which has been “disruptive and harmful” to him and his parents. Kyron hasn’t seen any of his parents since June 4.
The courts will decide what parenting rights Terri will have, based upon the facts presented.
Praying for Kyron’s safe return.
@beejay…which is why the “sub” comment bugged me, maybe Tanner (sorry can’t type TP) could have run into one of those guys in the school at some point? Did he know either one of them by sight? I dunno, I just know that when I get a middle of the night jolt to being straight awake it haunts me until I can figure it out.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
The previously mentioned Man mowing the lawn….seeing the kids, then there was mention of lawn/waste garbage bags. I am coming to the dance late, and this was prob previously covered, so bear with me. whatshouldschoolsdowithyarddebris. I don’t know if that link pasted or not; it was stating what the schools do with waste. There was a recent snippet about an ex of DD who does fencing and was at the school at times?
Just some random thoughts as I start my work for the day… I’m sure the landfills, etc have been searched? Anything new or noteworthy with Pummula?
What is the best way to go backwards and review all the previous info with fresh eyes? I did not find hid site until recently; But I love it, I think Blink and her gang are doing a great job trying to find Kyron.