Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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Thank you Rich M for the link.
@31.TerriYucky/amychicka says:
August 17, 2010 at 12:48 am
‘snapoutamalty’, made me lol
re: @ malty+
malty, glad that
you are still you
@Rich M says: August 17, 2010 at 8:44 am
“@Newsatfive: I think a 350K retainer is far more significant than a pair of pink panties. I think Kaines lawyer was under an obligation to make that request and it was a valid one that will indeed move it forward.”
Clients brag and bull**** in divorce cases. Terri is no fool. She knew Kaine Horman and Michael Cook went way back. What’s to says she didn’t start the affair — if there was one at all — as revenge? What’s to say she didn’t make the whole $350,000 number up?
Terri had a very simple motive to lie, and that was to save face. Kaine had just taken her daughter and was trying to make her look like crap. So, Terri starts smack-talking.
Parties to litigation behave badly under much less significant circumstances. Why do you suppose it’s any different here?
Also, I am not necessarily buying that Terri sent sexual poses of her nekked to Michael Cook. I read somewhere that what she sent were her scantily clad photos from her bodybuilding days. That totally makes sense, as LE could claim they’re sexual, but they’re not.
“I read the details of the filing and I feel its perfectly valid to say that there is no telling how long the case will be drawn out, and TMH excuse of ‘I am under intense scrutiny by media and LE’ just puts everyones life at a standstill based on HER and HER needs.”
Terri agreed to a dissolution. The abatement would act as a bifurcation, meaning the parties could be divorced while not resolving property or custody issues.
Given that Kaine has the kid and control of all the property, there is no prejudice to him except that he may need to bring a motion to dispose of property if he needed to do so.
“IF she really wanted visitation, then she needs to move forward with proceedings, not cause further delay to them as she has done.”
Really? So, under your theory, the noncustodial parent under a temporary order has to wait for a final order to see his or her children. Do you really believe this, or are you just making this assertion because you don’t like Terri?
Oregon allows for temporary orders. There’s nothing to say the parties are unable to enter a temporary order that would allow for supervised visitation pending further order of the court.
“And if I were Kaine, in light of his son being missing and Terris attempt to abduct Kiara from the gym, I would in no way trust her OR her parents. JMHO”
There was never any abduction. This is Laura Rackner’s posturing, and it’s complete horse manure.
Terri had not even been served with a restraining order. She had every right to see her child. The only person wrongfully depriving anyone of custody was Kaine.
And as to Kyron being missing, what if Terri went to the courthouse first and filed? What would have stopped her from making the same unsubstantiated claims? Would that have been fair?
“Regardless of who trusts whom, the case needs to move forward and not simply be put on hold indefinitely as her lawyer has tried to suggest. There is currently a restraining order and until that is legally removed, everyones hands are tied as far as visitation (supervised by the state/county/whatever or not).”
*NOT* true. A court can modify restraints to permit visitation.
Furthermore, an abatement is not indefinite; it is for a fixed period of time, and it can be lifted by motion of either party and finding of good cause by the court.
“TMH put out a supposed hit on baby girls father. TMH tried to kidnap her from daycare at gym. I consider that a serious threat.”
Again, not true. Law enforcement’s sting operation failed. There is nothing to show any murder-for-hire plot except the word of a landscaper who may or may not have INS and/or criminal problems. What do you want to bet someone with INS or criminal problems will cooperate to avoid prosecution or deportation?
“The judge didnt give an ex parte for giggles. There was a darned good reason.”
Really? Do you even know what ex parte means? It’s a hearing with one party present and, in this case, without any hearing.
Kaine claimed LE told him something. We don’t know what LE told him, and he has not provided anything to back up his claims.
The US Supreme Court has repeatedly affirmed that LE can lie in the course of an investigation because it’s a legitimate investigative technique. How do we know LE did not lie to Kaine, or whether LE they told Kaine anything at all?
@Rich M says: August 17, 2010 at 9:26 am
@newsatfive: “One more thought about your comment about Rackner just being one of those lawyers to just push paperwork through and get paid heavily for doing it.”
I didn’t say she would get paid heavily or that she would bill her client unfairly. I said she appears to be bringing series of ticky-tack motions that would bleed her client dry.
“Have you considered that the abatement (essentially saying in the court document that it be abated up to two years plus 30 days or something like that) there will be NO further discussion about other terms of the divorce ‘without mutual consent’ (that means visitation and separation of assets etc.)”
Multnomah County Supplemental Rule 7.055(7)(b) says there can be no mediation nor any motions during the abatement. That means that people can’t be doing agreed motions for orders either.
MCSR 7.055(7)(b) allows for discovery only if agreed by the parties. Discovery is not mediation or settlement talks.
Plus an abatement is two years max, not two years plus 30 days.
“If you have 2 years of having to pay a lawyer thats a heck of a lot more money from what I can tell vs a quick divorce.”
Thank you. You just made my point for me. The abatement process is only used for extraordinary cases. The only person prejudiced — or the party with the most to lose — by abatement is Terri Horman.
“I believe also that if TMH is going to request attorneys fees from KH and yet magically has 350K to pay Houze, he is well within his rights to know the source of that money.”
Really? Again your entire argument is based on the supposition that Terri Horman paid anyone $350K. Kaine can certainly argue that if she has that kind of resources, she doesn’t need his help. However, that does not entitle him to break the attorney-client privilege.
“She cant say she is unemployable or unemployed if she has a pending book deal.”
State your source. There is nothing out there to support this allegation.
“This would affect the ability of TMH to pay child support (should KH get custody.)”
An abatement under a local rule would not overcome state law requiring child support pending final outcome of the dissolution.
Terri Horman would be required to state her income and/or assets, as would Kaine, and the court would then set support according to the state schedule. This does not mean she would be required to state the source of funds to pay a retainer if it is not income, or if the source is privileged.
“There is mention of lack of a living will (I forget the legal term used but it was in the filing from yesterday). What if some bozo tries to knock her off or she gets injured in a car accident and now KH is the one legally responsible for making medical decisions on her? EFF THAT. If I were him in that case…well, nevermind.”
Again, state your source. The parties are separated. If either of them dies before dissolution, the divorce goes away. However, Terri has said she would agree to the divorce as evidence there is no prejudice, so the divorce would be bifurcated from the property and custody issues, and the parties would be divorced now.
Powers of attorney are not binding on anyone. Some would argue the best strategy to ensure that your final wishes are carried out is to tie the money in your will to the performance of your final wishes, and to make it known what those wishes are.
Back to the underlying issue, you seem to conveniently ignore the entire basis for an abatement is so as to ensure justice. Kaine will get his divorce at the soonest date. He also gets the kid and all the stuff in the interim.
Terri has 5th Amendment rights that are bigger than Kaine’s desire to litigate this in the newspaper. Do you really think that the court is going to steamroll over one of the few issues upon which the US Supreme court is unanimous (the right against self-incrimination)?
In just a few weeks, Kaine will be able to get remarried, he can and will monopolize the kid and pretend like he made her in a test-tube all by himself, and he can and will use all the “stuff” that he and Terri acquired in their time together. How does any of this harm Kaine if the only thing he has to wait for is a final order distributing property and awarding custody?
I want to see how we can progress the facts Newsatfive presents, in constructive dialogue.
Not always easy, but the truth is, from a legal perspective, she/he is right.
B
So Blink is troubled that Michael Cook has not been called to the grand jury? Wouldn’t that be a sign that he is the target of the inquiry? Just a thought.
Also, anyone know if Oregon allows a suspect to invoke his or her right to appear before the grand jury? While it might be terminally ill-advised, Terri Horman and/or Michael Cook might just have the right to appear and answer questions.
There is a saying; the thing that attracts you most will also be the thing that repels you. Not that this in any way leads to the answer of where is Kyron, but I honestly believe his “being sucked into a vortex” was due to his intelligence. Think about it, Terri shall we say has embellished on her academic achievements. Why at a point in life when you are a wife and mother would you continue your education at such an expensive school when a very good, reasonably priced school was available to you? Because it is all about the show. Her feelings of inadequacy. Kaine is successful & she is a housewife. She stole Kaine from Desiree, enjoyed the image of being married to a successful man, there the assumption by others that she must be intellectually on par. But perhaps she felt or was made to feel less than because he was the breadwinner. Do any of you remember the text regarding James after he moved out? It was not about him adjusting to family & school, new friends made, rejoining clubs & activities etc. It was about He got D’s when he was under Kaines roof. Now he is getting A’s. Academics Period.
As you know I am a big James fan, I think he holds the key, WITHOUT ANY PRIOR KNOWLEDGE & NO INVOLVEMENT. Terri of all people knows that families are not made from DNA alone. People decide what & who is family. When I see pictures of Kyron & James I do not see “bio, step & 1/2″ I see Brothers. Terri would have to know that getting rid of Kyron would be detrimental to James to say the least. I have to believe their was a fear larger than loosing James, if he were to find out, and that was by stifling Kyron she was stifling her fears of inadequacy. Kyron is at the age where bright children explode with imagination, they are now able to read/write and explore things that interest them. They are relentless in expressing their new found knowledge and theories of how and why things work and ideas for things yet to be dreamed. When a child like that stands before you, you know that as long as desire and ability continue to walk hand in hand with the child, their potential in the adult world is limitless. I think Terri saw this in Kyron and despised him for it.
Back to James, I do not here much of him but I imagine his summer “has not been the best”. I believe his father & family are doing their best to shield/comfort him, yet I believe he has a fish bowl type existence. IF he stands by his mother, he will not for long. School is starting he will have to be out in the world now. I do not think people would attack him verbally or otherwise, but the occassional staring, pointing and whispering along w/some new friends (they are all new; just moved there) pulling away/distancing themselves, will be enough to make him seek seclusion. I would not be suprised to see that he was or will be, at some point, home schooled. This seclusion/self imposed imprisonment would cause rage/hate in him towards Terri. I believe James is the only person that touches Terri’s heart. If Kyron Is not found before the start of school (Oh God, PLEASE TODAY!) Terri will implode. James will make sure of it. Love to Kyron and James!!!!
A couple more things, I am glad DD is professing innocence, I mean at least she is talking! I am totally neutral on DD, won’t be surprised either way at this point.
And as far as queer in portland, well, I can put in my 2 cents, right, EVIE and WG, queer does not equal pedophile! eek! And Portland has been a ‘gay-friendly’ city for a long time. It may not be a common term now in the greater U S of A, but back in the day it was, remember the “i’m here and i’m queer” slogan? i think in the context it was used is just a blanket term for what we now know as LGBT. On a side note to this, I have a friend from the east coast who recently informed me how vastly different the east and west is socially…so, I guess it’s just a cultural thing, but queer is still alive and well in good old P-town.
Lastly, that is a really good point about Cook not being called to the GJ??? I wonder why? I can’t remember who said it (sorry) that he was doing his own undercover work, I also had that feeling from the get-go that he was doing so for the reward money…But are they done with all GJ witnesses? If so, for the life of me I can’t think of one reason.
Idahogal: Good posts : )
I was just reading on a message board (which, btw does entirely too much inbickering and not nearly enough discussing) something that made me wonder. What is the deal with the landscaper? Why have so many people involved in this case been publicly discussed, names released and so on, but where the landscaper is concerned (short of here)….nothing. Why?
Make no mistake. Rudy Sanchez is involved. I say that without reservation.
B
I have a very hard time with people that are in charge of children. I read up post that “Kyron didn’t know Dede”. WHAT?
How can he not know his wifes best friend. Heck my husband even knows the ladies in my Garden club for heavens sake and all we entrust them with is a plant.
I am having a hard time “forgiving” Kyrons bio parents. We have Kaine who holds a good job at Intel, Desiree who is an accountant and Tony a detective.
Didn’t any of these people suspect or know anything?
Crazy Terri was running the show. She is the one with no job but all the kids.
Was this just the way it worked. Anybody that would step up to the plate as a babysitter would do?
I am sorry, maybe it’s all this heat, but why didn’t one of those Bio’s make this little kids Science Fair Project that I have read was a big highlight this school year?
Everybody busy?
I meant to say Kaine didn’t know Dede. Sorry.
It’s so nice to see everyone socializing, it’s needed in this case.
Just various remarks:
I am thinking TH was told to deliver KY in an easy and cooperative manner, so a big fat dose of OTC Benadryl may have done the trick and she needed to kill time waiting for that to work. I doubt the ‘taker’ wanted any problems. Maybe Ky did not fall asleep as fast as expected. That blue recycling bin bothers me. I wish the media would forward that question to Kaine.
I saw on scared monkeys someone thought they found a link from DD’s tweets to some other gals w/ pics on flickr. The women and some men were at the fair. They dressed like flamingos, with netting on top, and you could see right through. I could not detect the exact linkage to DD or whether it was relevent, which is why I didnt link it. But if true, that is weird. These aren’t 18yo’s. I am sure they all had a good time, but that may just be the begining of the strange activities TH may have been involved with. I wonder still if the online gaming thing is relevent at all. Is it possible to talk to others w/ bluetooth like you do with Call of Duty? That sure is another avenue of communication. People from all areas on at a time.
Another point I have kept meaning to mention. I am leaning away from Kyron being told he was going to the Dr. Reason is, I think he would have wanted his coat/backpack. Either he was wisked away without knowing what hit him, OR, TH or someone said, go look at the project them come out to the truck to get your lunch, I left it in there by mistake.
*****
Love the video- MOO. Every case I follow here has cows in it, whats up with that?
I am not from OR, I am from MD, so I’ve never heard of any “Fred Meyers” stores around here. Has it been mentioned yet exactly what Terri was looking for at these stores or what she purchased? Perhaps maybe a pair of eyeglasses similiar to Kyrons?
Anybody know if Grand Jury has been in session this week?
May God be with you Kyron. You are in the hearts of many.
Has anyone else heard this? I just heard on JVM that supposedly a woman who was an acquaintance of TH ran into her in that Fred Meyer store at about 9:30 a.m. on June 4. What was odd about the encounter was that this woman stated that almost immediately TH pulled out the photo that she had taken of Kyron that morning at the Science Fair.
This woman said it was odd because she didn’t even know TH that well.
It also makes me wonder, ok, was that pic on a digital camera? And if she used a digital, she would have had to go home or somewhere to a printer that had the software to print photos which alot of people have now anyway, I have a photojet printer.
Another thing that makes this odd is that she would have had to either go home and do this immediately or take the photo elsewhere to print. I doubt the latter because someone would have remembered her.
It just goes to the fact she was going out of her way to establish an alibi of where she was that morning complete with photographic evidence.
The woman however did not mention whether the toddler was with her or not.
I thought it was weird that kyrons said stated today that he was going to buy school supplies for kyron. Is he realy thinking that kyron will be home or is he feeling guilty in knowing that if he had not been unfaithful to desiree kyron would still be with him.?
These are the reasons I believe DeDe is lying to People magazine:
1. Awol from job on the very day Kyron goes missing. Misses lunch, uh, no way this lady is missing lunch after doing hours of landscaping work.
2. Buying cell phones using fake names. I believe this was mentioned early on.
3. Refusing to cooperate with LE from early on and supposedly advising others to do the same.
4. Stays with TH for eleven days after KH moves out. I dont’ even have close family that would stay with me for 11 days much less friends.
5. You all may have read before that I firmly believe DeDe was HopeinVa. DeDe’s house gets raided July 15. HopeinVa last post is July 14, no more posts since.
6. If what things HopeinVa mentions in those posts on OL are to be believed she had intimate knowledge of the Horman household goings on.
Remember the “glasses in the mailbox with note” scenario? That tidbit came from HopeinVa herself. So, if that did in fact happen, who could have placed them there or mailed them? That could not have been done by TH, had to be someone outside the home.
7. The day after the pic of the glasses was posted, LE abruptly called off the ground search for Kyron.
8. HopeinVa had a distinct disdain for LE. Kept calling them Mayberry RFD and Huckleberry Police. Stands to reason she would enjoy lying to and taunting LE.
9. My philosophy has always been birds of a feather flock together. DeDe has flocked with Terri’s group for quite a few years now. The leopard doesn’t change its spots. She knows TH inside and out and approves of her behavior and is like her in many ways.
10. Just like TH, she seems to have no real concern, despair, or fear about what might have happened to this child. If she was friends with the Horman’s for 8 years, she would have been around Kyron quite a bit. He’s such a cute little fellow and so unassuming. If it had been my friend’s stepson I would be despondent. She’s walking around grinning too much like a Cheshire cat.
All this of course speculation and MOO.
The glasses in the mailbox possibility came directly from me, nobody else.
B
@Nancy says: August 17, 2010 at 4:42 am
“Terri lives with her parents; therefore, it would unwise and perhaps unlawful (given the current RO) to grant the grandparents a supervisory role in allowing TH visitations.”
Really? And what is your basis for what is lawful in the family courts?
As I stated in a prior posting, any contact between Kiara and her mother would require a modification of the TRO. Grandparents and other relatives are often used as visitation supervisors.
“Desiree has been in contact with LE daily for months now. If she felt her past issues with Kain were pertinent to Kyron’s disappearance, she (and LE) have had numerous opportunities to ‘follow up’ on that. Obviously, this is not a concern for Desiree.”
Really? And how you would know what LE’s response has been to any input from Desiree or anyone else?
There’s a bit of a “mob mentality” here that says if Kaine and/or Desiree says it is so, that means that it is true. Anyone who has ever sat in a courtroom will tell you that judges are quick to advise juries that just because a witness says something is so (as in something is a fact) does not mean that that it it is true.
Your writing is familiar to me. Are you in the legal profession north of the Mason-Dixon Line?
“There appears to be a strong possibility that it was she, Terri, who was involved in a situation that ‘yanked away’ Kyron from his parents, ‘severing that relationship,’ which has been ‘disruptive and harmful’ to him and his parents. Kyron hasn’t seen any of his parents since June 4.”
Parenting plans account for the best interests of the child, not the best interest of a parent. You have taken my words out of context and now seek to recast a truthful statement (Kiara has been yanked away from her mother which has severed that relationship and been disruptive and harmful to Kiara) into another entirely different claim that is wholly unsupported by my prior statement.
Kyron is missing. We do not know where Kyron is or why he is missing. Not one person has been charged with any crime in relation to Kyron’s disappearance.
You statement is a conclusion without merit. You have tried and convicted Terri if only in your mind, even though she has not even been charged with any crime.
There is a parenting plan for Kyron that allocates residential time between Kyron’s two two parents. Kyron is not subject to Kaine’s divorce from Terri, and there is no potential for residential contacts between Terri and Kyron.
As much as I might have sympathy for one or both parents, a parent’s feelings and interests take a back seat to the child’s best interests in crafting a parenting plan.
Like it or not, the court weighs heavily factors such as who has provided for the day to day care of a child. In this case, Terri Horman would have a mountain of evidence to support primary placement of Kiara in her home.
In parting, I will leave you with this: It is a poorly kept secret that if you want to get at the truth in a family law matter, you overstate what you suppose *might* be going on, and you leave a big enough gap that the other side has no choice but to respond and prove you wrong.
If you think dad makes $4,500 a month, you allege $6,000 on your petition for child support.
If you imagine that the other parent may be talking to the child about the litigation, you scream bloody murder that based on the child’s tearful comments to the parent, you know the other parent is talking about the case night and day. You know this because the child shakes and sobs uncontrollably for several minutes, no hours, immediately on returning to her mother’s loving arms after every visit, and each time she blurts out, “Daddy says the judge is going to make me move, and that I won’t be able to see you anymore.”
Far too many family law attorneys practice like that.
In this case, I see some overreaching that hints at this kind of overreaching: “Terri (allegedly) paid her attorney $350,000,” “Terri was a good mom until the past several months…,” etc.
The minute people know they are headed for divorce they start posturing and heaping on the allegations. What’s telling is when the allegations come out in dribs and drabs, and trial balloons with subtle allusions to a problem are followed with blockbuster claims when the party figures out they’re onto something that the court cares about.
Before you interject, I already know what you’re going to say — look at the text messages, right? There are several problems with these, not the least of which is that it is excruciatingly easy to spoof a cell phone call, and it’s surprisingly easy to take a recording of someone’s voice and using software, generate speech based on that person’s speech pattern.
In this case, we’re only talking text messages. Those are simple. Here’s cheap app that gets the job done:
http://spoofapp.com/
The courts have ruled on the admissibility of text messages with mixed results. Text messages by definition are hearsay — an out of court statement used to prove the truth of the matter asserted. Some courts won’t accept them as proof of anything, and others look at them in context to see if they are consistent with other interactions between the parties and events that are occurring at that time that the texts were made.
That Michael Cook has offered heavily redacted text messages proves nothing. There is obvious cross-talk as both parties are texting each other at the same time. The “he” in “guess how much he costs?” could be on a separate topic, say, regarding a thoroughbred horse or show dog, for all we know.
Kaine claims to be the good guy, and that he’s telling the truth here. So why is he everything he files so heavily redacted?
Time for an update? You had posted this information earlier on in the investigation, so now that there is more factual info out there, can you update it?
Priority Lead #6
The baby Kiara, was not with Terri and Kyron that morning.
JM notes:
I don’t know where dad was.
I do not know what he drove.
I don’t know when he left.
I do not know when he came home.
I do not know for sure he was even at work but it would be easy enough to document with ID swipes, etc.
I do not know where the baby was.
I do not know who was watching the baby.
I do not know why dad decided to come home early to meet the bus (and even that is in question.)
Where was she and is this normal routine?
Images by Klaasend
working on it, thanks
B
Madeline Tanner, and Jason Mateos, contributing editors to blinkoncrime.com
I feel like if Kryon was hiding on the internet we would have found him by now. I think I have scoured it from end to end! But I also think that TH used it to set this plan in motion and she had to have left something behind.
The more I think about this case the more I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
So I have a question regarding the texts/sexts between TH and MC.
In the text transcripts being used by KH’s attorney, MC texts to TH “Hey on a side note, the news channels all just announced you’ve got Stephen Houze! That’s awesome (it’s in the news so I figured I can text it),”
The parenthetical comment he makes sounds to me like he knows the texts are not secure or private. Mentioning it to TH like that, makes it seem like she’s also aware of the lack of privacy.
If that’s the case, how does TH get “caught” sexting with him? If they both understand that their texts are not private….?
If there’s some other reason he might say “(it’s in the news, so I figured I can text it),” I don’t know what it might be.
Any ideas?
@newsatfive – I had not heard that the sexted photos were scantily clad from bodybuilding days – but I read that suggestion from Terri’s support page at one point. Do you have a link to that?
Also, I keep seeing the Kaine did not know DeDe – I heard differently at one of his interviews – he knew her but not that well.
twinkletoes says:
August 16, 2010 at 12:39 pm
“When you yourself have never or only rarely shared your true self with the world, it is not a crushing loss to have to start over from scratch on building a new identity.”
As I sat having lunch yesterday in a restaurant in Roseburg, Oregon you can imagine my surprise when James walked in. I know I shouldn’t have been surprised — it is a small town! I guess the reality hadn’t set in that these people I have been reading about/following and praying for are … actually… people. I was able to maintain my composure by acting like a respectful adult, however it was difficult! So many things came rushing through my mind, so many questions I’d love to ask him as I’m sure many of us would. As he sat in the booth with his back facing the rest of the restaurant, only to be looked at by the group he was with (no Terri was not present) it dawned on me: it may not be a crushing loss to start over with a new identity for Terri — but what about James? He is at the age where he already has to report to his peers …. in the normal environment it would be about his looks… his grades, etc. But we all know how mean kids are and people too. I work with the public and it is appalling at some of the rude things people say. My heart sank as I thought of what the kids at school will be saying to James when he starts back in a couple weeks. I could only pray that Terri would think about the impact this has had on Kyron’s brothers and sister and put the rumors, and the possible “harassment” they will receive from her silence.
Prayers to you sweet little Kyron and just as importantly your brothers and sister. I pray that this will all come to an end before school starts so that James will no longer have to worry about what others may think or say about his family and will no longer have to sit with his back to the rest of the world.
Terri you have the knowledge to bring this to a closure for your children. Please do the right thing… for James, Kiara and “OUR BOY” Kyron. Get on with it and allow your family to heal.
Blink,
I remember you mentioning the glasses scenario on the radio program with Dana Pretzer. Was this the first time you mentioned it? Because HopeinVa had mentioned them (being placed in mailbox) in a post well before that which started tongues wagging.
No it is in a comment on here, and iirc, I specified first that the glasses displayed were indeed Kyron’s.
I went on to opine that the questionaire was actually for exemplar collection to a possible ransom note.\
B
Just wanted to add to Blink….I am not questioning you at all I am gathering from your posts you are privy to info that we are not, just wondering why he is so hush hush in the regular news around here. I would think they would be ALL OVER anything to get people watching/reading, so why not this? Did LE ask them not to talk about him and does the press listen to that? I don’t know how it works. I thought the press did anything to get “the scoop.” I keep wanting to try and figure this out, but then I think there are just too many pieces missing from the puzzle and for that matter, I’m not even sure what the puzzle should look like in the end.
Blink,
HopeinVa post on Kyron’s glasses being in mailbox was OL on June 26. Most of her posts rant about Kyron, she hints in that post that Kaine and an accomplice are behind they kidnapping and that Kaine’s accomplice was responsible for the glasses incident.
Oops sorry, I meant to say hopeinva rant about Kaine, not Kyron.
Your dog barks up the wrong tree because A) You have a bad dog or B) Sir Fox has already left.
Yep.
B, from B
Just a theory, but is it possible that Terri herself could have been the motivating factor behind James being forced to move out of the home? The mere fact that she “protests” so much to strangers about her husband being the culprit behind the son moving out makes me immediately suspicious. Also the timing of it, being just months before Kyron goes missing.
Think about it, having a 16 year old looking over your shoulder when you are trying to carry on an affair, plan your husband’s demise, or the disappearance of your stepson, could really cramp your style. I think Terri herself wanted James out of that house for a reason.
When he came for the visit shortly after Kyron went missing, she again “went off” on him for talking to his father on the phone about the polygraph situation. Again, James ends up leaving because of the turmoil in the household. Terri carries on new affair with Michael Cook and other mayhem with DeDe.
DeDe Spicher’s statement released today is a big question mark to me. She stated that “I never left the property that day.” The property was noted as being 35+ acres. Yet she did not deny being unaccounted for.
Could this mean that there is truth within her statement….could it mean she was unaccounted for on that property for a long period of time…but located at an area of the site where she was unnoticed?
Or she’s lying. Heads or tails, really.
Heres a link to the interview where Andrea states that Kiara was in Terri’s arms.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013828-504083.html
@elpaso:
I think you are spot on about that “never left the property” statement. I just google earthed that sight on Old Germantown Rd. It is one of the densest and most forested areas I have seen yet in that area. It would be next to impossible to see anything from the air, and you would definitely need to know that area to not get lost from what I can see. I believe she is telling the truth about that one statement. And of course she is not going to answer her cellphone if she is up to no good. But she has yet to answer questions as to whether she is involved in Kyron’s disappearance. That statement from her is most indeed telling. I think LE needs to tear that place up, I believe he is there somewhere. The whole Sauvie Island thing was a decoy.
26.Mermaid14 says:
August 17, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Agreed Mermaid14. If my assumptions for TH are correct, I think that she is the “type of person” who needs those around her to worship her. To me this is in line with the whole narcissist personality. Perhaps she couldn’t handle James not “worshipping” her anymore, and maybe Kyron too. I wouldn’t put it past her to be the kind of person that really enjoys small children because they don’t question you, or combat you the way a child does as they get older and start to “rebel,” which is an important part of developing. They begin to separate themselves more than mirror you and worship you. I imagine any signs of this she would take as rejection, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she rejects those people first, as knee jerk reaction to being rejected. Which is also in line with my thinking that TH was afraid for her relationship and way of life with KH, and she came up with a beyond shitty solution to protect herself. Anyway, back to the kids, I am sure that it is true that KH and James butted heads, every adult butts heads with a 15 year old to some extent! But perhaps it was TH that wasn’t able to deal with it, not them. And, yes, I also think that if she was planning to off Kaine, and engage in other activities that could jeapordize her life and plans, James being there would be a problem. I also like to think that she would not want James to be suspect in any way. I think what ever she did, she thought it would “go away” pretty quickly, she would be free and clear to start her life over as the victim in all this. Assuming she is guilty (which I do).
No matter what the verdict is these kids are suffering and that just breaks my heart. I just hope that this case is resolved soon and they can start to begin their lives again. I can’t imagine what James is going through. I really hope he has good people he can turn to. That poor kid.
Hmmm…a random thought came to me tonight. Could Terri have gained weight & dyed her hair more reddish to more closely resemble DD?
I know she was complaining about her new hair color to her family members around the time of Kyron’s disappearance, but I’m not sure when she actually had the color done…
@Mermaid. Just alittle advise. It’s not wise to question the Queen “B” when it comes to her facts.
46.Cathy Bickel says:
July 9, 2010 at 10:37 am
I’ve looked everywhere for a link about Kyron’s glasses being mailed to the home and I can’t find it anywhere. Does anyone have it? I’ve seen several people ask the same question but I have not found any answers. Thanks so much!
Cathy
From Queen B on July 9th:
You won’t. It was my supposition that this case started ransomesque, and that the glasses of Kyron’s were delivered with some sort of note.
Shelbar and all- thanks for the follow up, but I DO want people to consider the origin of statements.
AND
The reputation and motivation of anyone providing them. Point of fact, I stated above was supposition, not fact, and I stand behind it.
I understand the need for answers that are clear and concise, I do- it is what we work at everyday.
That said, if it were that easy this case and all the other cases still belaboring would be solved.
I don’t mind questions, I do mind unresearched ones, however, as we have taken the time to weigh in already and you won’t find me scouring my own remarks, ever, to prove something I did or didn’t say- can you imagine? There are almost 80K comments on this site.
B
newsatfive says:
“@Nancy says:
“Terri lives with her parents; therefore, it would unwise and perhaps unlawful (given the current RO) to grant the grandparents a supervisory role in allowing TH visitations.”
“Really? And what is your basis for what is lawful in the family courts?”
——————–
I clearly said “perhaps” unlawful. If I had a “basis for what is lawful in the family courts” I would not have said “perhaps”.
I am not in the legal profession north of the Mason-Dixon line.
newsatfive says:
“Before you interject, I already know what you’re going to say …”
———————–
With all due respect you have no idea what I am going to say and have no standing to instruct me when or when not to interject.
newsatfive says:
“There’s a bit of a “mob mentality” here that says if Kaine and/or Desiree says it is so, that means that it is true.”
————————–
You brought up the old RO Desiree filed. I stated that publicly Kain and Desiree are working together now to bring Kyron home, and seemingly not dwelling on the past RO. How that turns into “mob mentality” or believing everything they say is beyond me.
This is a very respectful site; there’s no need for confrontation directed at those who are commenting on their opinions, as you are yours.
@ newsatfive: ~snip~
That Michael Cook has offered heavily redacted text messages proves nothing. There is obvious cross-talk as both parties are texting each other at the same time. The “he” in “guess how much he costs?” could be on a separate topic, say, regarding a thoroughbred horse or show dog, for all we know.
Kaine claims to be the good guy, and that he’s telling the truth here. So why is he everything he files so heavily redacted?
*******
I am curious as to why you feel that the redacted material offerred ‘from Kaine’, is actually information HE has decided on his own should be censored? I would think that specific information that was witheld was due to LE or DA’s office or something like that. You know, evidence to be potentially used in a criminal case?
Also, wouldn’t the evidence Kaine provided to obtain the RO also be subject to those same restrictions? My non -legal mind would think the judge left to that decision had additional information provided to him that the general public and media would not be privy to. If you have any links to provide that wwould be great.
I just think there is so much going on with the divorce etc~ good grief , it is like following a reality show~ “the Balloon Boy” all over again~! We are being side tracked in so many ways~ the 350,000 for attorney fee ,the Ls plot ~! So many side issues~De De, plots & specs abound~ but Kyron is the main focus~ some things are really bothering me more than before~ a lot of $ issues ~ What price does one place on a human life~ there is no price, because life is priceless, right? I would hope no one is playing on this~!
So much to read, so little time!
@Eloise – MOO = My Opinion Only; JMO = Just My Opinion; MHO = My Humble Opinion, and so on.
@Newsatfive – Okay you have some good points and info. But do you have to come off like such a know-it-all, telling off everyone who makes a comment you don’t like? It really takes away from the weight of your message when you put your comments the way you do. Like Blink said, we can have dialogue in a constructive way…sorry I’m not trying to bait you, I’m just calling it like I see it. It’s a free country and we all DO have the right to comment.
@Elizabeth – You may just think LE is barking up the wrong tree because you don’t know what they know. Or they may be barking up more than one tree, and at least one of those trees will bear fruit. Hopefully that is the case.
@El Paso – never thought of it like that! DD says she never left the property and the property is 35 acres. Good one.
@Mermaid14 – Agreed! IMO Terri doesn’t give a crap about anyone but herself and James is just another pawn in her sick chess game. We’ve all seen plenty of cases where Mom is wacky and actually gets enjoyment out of tormenting her own children (or harming them). Maybe Terri is one of these and she just wanted to jerk James around and make his life miserable for her own sick reasons. I can imagine that James did NOT have the happiest of childhoods, considering Terri’s erratic and selfish behavior. Not only does she NOT seem like a very good mom to her own kids, she apparently had NO ability to love a step-child. Moo
This is like Days of our lives~! I dont care about all the details
of the divorce~! Just want more on the finding Kyron and what anyone can do to help.
Make no mistake. Rudy Sanchez is involved. I say that without reservation.
B
If Rudy is involved, is he the third person you had once stated is involved in this? Terri, DeDe, and Rudy?
#26 Mermaid14 says: August 17, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Re your comment about James…James has nothing to do with Terri’s motive here to either have Kaine killed or have Kyron removed from Kaine’s life. Listen to Clinton Van Zandt: The FBI Vet’s exclusive audio here http://www.1190kex.com/pages/cult.html
Here’s a link that has the following information, but it isn’t the place I first saw it (can’t remember where that was).
http://www.truecrimeinthe21stcentury.com/2010/08/10/terri-horman/
Regarding DeDe – her friends were interviewed on the CBS “Early Show” on August 2nd. They defend her of course, but the statement that stands out in the link above is:
“Reports came out yesterday from friends of DeDe’s that she was attending a landscaping course and “forgot” her phone.”
I remember that report at the time – I heard several times that she was “attending a landscaping course”. The friends’ names are listed.
I can’t believe she wouldn’t tell her employer (who had a deadline to meet), and I can’t believe that it would be hard to prove that’s where she was, and I also can’t believe that the friends would have made that up if they hadn’t gotten it from DeDe herself – and I can’t believe it’s true. However, it does appear she may have been trying to set up an alibi in advance. Maybe she forgot what she said.
Does anyone else remember this?
@ Elizabeth says
I totally agree with you.
I am a SAHM, married to my husband and Our child not step. Sometimes I even wonder how it is he can’t make time for our daughter’s times too. It makes me even more so wonder how two bio parents placed such responsibility on a step parent. And a step parent with a new born.
With all of this. I just so everytime I come here, hope, wish pray this boy has been found alive.
As a secondary wish, I hope that he is found.
And thirdly, and not nearly as important than the other two…. justice?
I have to wonder however, despite all our theories, can justice ever truly be done?
@ Cathy Jones says: August 17, 2010 at 9:13 pm
“The parenthetical comment he [Michael Cook] makes sounds to me like he knows the texts are not secure or private. Mentioning it to TH like that, makes it seem like she’s also aware of the lack of privacy. If that’s the case, how does TH get “caught” sexting with him? If they both understand that their texts are not private….?”
My personal theory is that one of two things happened:
1. He flattered her, and she took the bait. Whatever followed (bodybuilding poses or “nekked” shots) is the big mystery.
2. Michael Cook was at her house so much he picked up Terri’s cell phone and forwarded himself a few goodies.
(As far as my source goes, I’m speaking out of turn. I believe this was info from an aquaintance of Terri’s.)
“If there’s some other reason he might say ‘(it’s in the news, so I figured I can text it),’ I don’t know what it might be.”
Put out the bait, set the trap, and see if the little mouse shows up. Yup, that about sums it up. Michael positions himself to be “in the know” and seen as on Terri’s side.
IMHO, these are adults acting like children. Each and every of them needed to step up and fight for Kyron without espousing an agenda, or at least stay out of the way. Doing the right thing seems to be too much to ask of some of the people in this social group. It’s horrifying.
I personally believe that Michael Cook, having been at the house from day 1, and heavily involved with the family for a time, was either enlisted to spy on Terri or took it upon himself to do same. I freely admit had it netted a resolution in this case, I would be all for it.
In a general way, everyone is asking to believe this woman is the sole criminal mastermind to stump like 9 elite LE agencies and then dumb enough to sext this guy. Maybe she is, but I am at 30,000 feet still on this one and I am not feeling it.
B
Regarding DeDe’s interview with People mag today in which she said she believed Terri is not capable…but what are we to make of DeDe’s own attorney stating just a few weeks ago that he would not be surprised if Terri was not arrested. Hmmmm…not exactly on the same page, are they?
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Attorney-says-hed-be-surprised-if-step-mom-not-arrested-in-Kyron-case-99289494.html
Is DeeDee going on TV next
what is her motive to be out there
money ?
Does People mag pay well
who called who?
LOL
I think both Terri and de dee know kyrons whereabouts. I agree the sauvies Island thing was probably a diversion. they both are keeping the truth to themsleves. I wish theyd tell us where Kyron is. so he can be ret urned to his family safely. how long do they think they can keep the secret a secret? all people that are guilty eventually stumble apon their mistakes. and get caught. this is my theroy. I think it would be a good idea to go through that whole area that de dee was working that day to. as stated by another person on here.
Newsatfive says: “The abatement process is only used for extraordinary cases. The only person prejudiced — or the party with the most to lose — by abatement is Terri Horman.”
It does seem that Terri has the most to lose by doing this unless it is thought that if/when she is found not guilty she could bargain for a better settlement from the divorce. But even if she were charged with something tomorrow, I can’t see the case being over in 2 years. It seems like these things take forever in spite of your right to a speedy trial. When it first came up, people suggested it was because Houze didn’t want her to be asked any questions in front of any court. What do you think?
I’d like to say that I appreciate your (legal, in particular) comments and I believe, based on what I know, that you are right. I first went to Family Court about 25 years ago and was horrified by what could be said about me with no warning and no opportunity to prove it wasn’t so, since it wasn’t like a criminal court. Now many places require mediation and parenting classes but you can still get blindsided in court. The first judge I saw was retired and came in to reduce a backlog of cases – he repeatedly said the attorneys should hurry up since he had a fishing trip planned and it was Friday and he didn’t want to be there. His decision was reversed the next Monday because he didn’t read the court ordered custody report – and said so.
That one case went all the way to the Oregon Supreme Court (with no changes) and began again with what was essentially “harrassment by motions” in my opinion. Nothing was gained and a lot of money lost, but I learned a lot, including how to represent myself.
Much later, one of my family members went to law school and I found I really like discussing legal issues (except international business) – just too old to go back to school now. Another family member is now involved in a Family Court case which became intertwined with a Criminal Court case. (Yes, I know “intertwined” is not a legal term. ) That can be very confusing – even to the FC judge – regarding who handles what, especially if the issues are uncommon and other parties are involved. Following what is happening with the Horman’s now is really tough because it’s a Family Court case intertwined with a non-existent criminal case that is being tried in our imaginations (mine included).
Mostly what I have learned in a nutshell is that the average person can’t determine for themselves what a particular law is or how it’s interpreted simply based on a generic version of common sense. There is all that old English background stuff to understand, and a string of cases to review on every topic no matter how small, including the appeals, not to mention new ground to break at times. Only by living through a particular legal event in one’s life, learning to do research, and working with a competent attorney who has time to communicate well with you, does the average person open a small window into (drum roll) The Law.
We should all be careful not to make assumptions about legal matters or what the pros and cons of a particular legal action might be, and we also should not be surprised when we get surprised. I have a great respect for the law and for courts and attorneys in general, but it’s not my field and I appreciate receiving information to help me understand what’s happening and the implications of it.
Thanks again.
PS – since I don’t know you and am no expert, I will still, respectfully, check out what you say.
Ok, where’d the first Sanchez go? I can’t spell his first name, started with an “A”….can’t find him in Multnomah jail anymore…is he the “fox that already left”?
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/kyron-horman-case-dede-spicher-speaks-police-targeting/story?id=11426202
Kyron Horman Case: DeDe Spicher Speaks Out, Says Police Pressured Her to Target Terri Horman
It’s kind of a rehash of the People Magazine article.
@Newsatfive:
THANK YOU so very much for your information and for your ability and willingness to put yourself in an adversarial position here. I hate being in that position and avoid stating things I have wanted to say simply for that reason. I have been out on a limb here more than most due to my own unpopular theories.
And, thank you for the info. about text messaging–totally unknown to me. The shakiness of texting alone could account for why DA hasn’t called Cook before the GJ. Cook’s friend Becky said that the 2 of them were conducting their own investigation into Ky (a paraphrase).
I’ve always thought the MFH was either Rudy’s lie or was fabricated by LE. Kaine was already in a rocky marriage and suspicious of TH in Ky’s disappearance/OR, he wanted to cut TH out from the family fold and put the focus/pressure on her. So, it was no big leap for him to leave and file for divorce–with even shaky evidence for the supposed MFH.
I’ve always felt the bio parents so overplayed their parts in their media appearances. I wanted to scream. (Screaming now.)
I know from personal LE connections that LE can and does make up things and put them out there. However people or the press use them is up to them. Quoting a family LE member: “First the victim gets screwed by the criminal, and then he gets screwed by the System.”
Living through the Richard Jewell fiasco, and his eventual money award due to LE wrongfully dragging him through the mud, I’m so hoping for any innocent parties here to have the same outcome. Not that it makes up for anything, really. But here, LE has kept their hands clean for the most part by letting the bio-parents be the public accusers.
Keeping that in mind, and remembering that TH was originally in agreement with LE’s flyer bearing her picture and the Horman’s truck, I wonder now if LE isn’t attempting to find witnesses who can EXONERATE her by confirming her stated timeline. And placement of her truck.