Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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Ok I was semi-onboard with the overly loquacious @Newsatfive comments until it came to the text spoofing apps. I work in the data/voice industry and have for years. There is no doubt that LE has obtained a court order allowing them access to original records from the service providers of both TH’s and Cook’s. Come on, there is some validity to some of the points you’re trying to make – and I agree that the public discourse on TH vs KH (and Desiree and Tony) is one-sided to the extreme, but even you have to agree when you sweep the pile of Terri’s post-Kyron-missing bullchit together instead of picking each piece apart individually (which is a common defense attorney strategy), most people with a smidgen of common sense can smell a problem. And, there IS a problem.
Agreed, and in terms of the timing of their release, it seems inline with an un-objected deuces tecum if not provided “at will” by Cook.
Not speaking for news at five on this one, but my concern is purely that the criminal case, as n@5 underscores, is paramount, and frankly if they are confident of her involvement, why fast track it all- an indictment will be handed down, and they will inevitably get their way as a result, imo.
All I can say is that LE had better have told Terri she was their prime suspect long ago.
Should she be? Absolutely. Let’s remember the goal- bringing Kyron home.
B
Oh, and we hear nothing about Rudy and friends because they might be the ones who took Ky and committed any other (sexual) crimes against him AND they’re already locked up. And, LE is saying and leaking nothing about them to the media. Or if they do, it’s seriously off the record.
Maybe the latest LE efforts are to place the white truck of RS Landscape Maintenance at Skyline on June 4 with a timeline that is outside of TH’s time at Skyline. Ya know?? And, they sure don’t want to come right out and say: similar white truck to Kaine’s, but it just happens to belong to RS Landscape Maintenance!! (what a happy coincidence for LE). Not gonna discuss the already locked up guys at this point.
@cbickel: I don’t ever get B’s cryptic clues. But I the fox was either one of the Sanchez guys or Kyron.
Anselmo Sanchezsanchez was transferred out of MCSO to another prison. I’ll try to find the link. I posted it and somebody else did before me I believe.
No one wants to hear it, I know, but it still seems to me that it would be much less risky to remove a body from school than a live child.
Redrock says:
August 17, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Your dog barks up the wrong tree because A) You have a bad dog or B) Sir Fox has already left.
Yep.
B, from B
_________
It’s too early for me to wrap my brain around this one. Help an analogy-deficient girl out.
@cbickel: here you go. Anselmo Sanchez-sanchez is now in fed. prison.
http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingMoreList=false&FirstName=Anselmo&Middle=&LastName=Sanchez-sanchez&Race=U&Sex=M&Age=&x=75&y=18
Cathy Bickel says:
I can’t spell his first name, started with an “A”….
———————————
Anselmo?
And Blink’s comment: Make no mistake. Rudy Sanchez is involved. I say that without reservation.
B
Wow…okay…what a tangled web.
@Malty: People magazine has a reporter, Elaine Aradillas, living in Hillsboro to specifically cover the case. She was the first reporter invited into the Horman’s house. I think she probably gained access to DeDe through Terri.
http://wweek.com/editorial/3639/14358/
If James is making As at Roseburg High and was making Ds at his school, there are so many variables to it. One could be the schools
http://schools.oregonlive.com/#incart_hbx – this is the rating of the schools in Oregon. Roseburg is rated as “satisfactory”, but also
“troubled” as far as federal targets. Lincoln (his high school in Portland, I believe) was rated as “exceptional” and meeting all federal targets, not the same type of animal. Then there are other things with the family of course, perhaps the horses, etc. We cannot prove what caused the difference, though we know the house at Sheltered Nook was troubled.
I certainly don’t have much info on family law so wouldn’t compete with the lawyers, but I do know something about Child Welfare as I sometimes touch on them in my work. I am not totally sure how involved they are and all that should be confidential so that’s great. But once they step in and say a parent can’t have visitation until they do X, Y and Z, they can’t. The other parent is legally bound to take charge of the child if they are deemed fit. They first get an extensive evaluation by a psychologist of DHS-CHild Welfare choosing that tunes into the person’s ability to parent and then they have to make a certain amount of progress toward the steps Child Welfare deems appropriate before they can even get supervised visitation. Many people are mandated to drug and alcohol treatment, parenting classes, counseling and sometimes domestic violence classes. Meanwhile if legal charges are pending the certainly is paid attention to.
@Newsatfive:
Thank you for taking the time to explain all of those legal issues, in a nut-shell, for those of us who *don’t* have a legal background : )
Though I consider myself to be a logic-minded person, I often find that the intricacies and wording of (even the most basic) legal statutes baffling, counterintuitive and difficult to wade through!
Thanks for translating all of that back to plain English! : )
I agree with Blink… what you have to say—though hard to swallow—is true from a legal stand-point.
In our collective desire to see the person *we suspect strongly* is guilty—we are prone to dismiss the fact that she, in fact, has legal rights…
Although this fact *feels* detrimental to our pursuit of justice for Kyron, we should remind ourselves that part of what makes the U.S. justice system “fair” (in the broader sense) is that people—even ones accused of *horrible* things—do have legal rights. If suspects and criminals did *not* have legal rights, we would surely see *quicker* resolution… But, we would run a greater risk of convicting the wrong person, too. Is that what we *really* want???
I firmly *believe* Terri (and her ‘minions’) did this, and want to see her/them brought to swift and severe justice!
But, *when* she is put on trial and (*I hope*), CONVICTED, I want to feel confident that KYRON is getting the justice he deserves, because we ‘got’ the right person fair and square!
We need to get this *right*, and not deny anyone their right to due process… even though it is *extremely* frustrating to see TMH n’ friends remain free and uncharged in the mean time.
JMHO
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20413793,00.html
The pair also assumed they were under surveillance. “Any conversations that we wanted to have, we’d go out into the yard,” Spicher says. “When we were in the house, we’d talk about the kids, we’d talk about her marriage, talked about her family.”
~~~
Still praying that the dots are connected and Mr. Frogman ~ Kyron is found very soon.
@wendyscrush: I hear ya on James. Poor baby. What a life he has had already. I just hope he can find peace in his current home, which seems very stable and loving. I am so grateful to his father and step mom for providing him with a refuge and keeping him from all the media attention.
@mermaid14 – your posts are interesting – But I would kind of disagree with the part about not finding DeDe on 36 acres. They were preparing for an event – they would not have been working in a dense area, the participants would not have gone there. Also, it is a bit confusing – media reports in the beginning say it was a personal residence, now she said it was a nursery. Thirty-six acres is not that big of a place – especially if people are looking for you.
I didn’t hear that James had been to the house after Kyron was missing and told dad polygraph info. Interesting tidbit.
I’m curious if anyone knows if Anselmo is a currently a legal resident of US.
is not.
B
@ newsat5 –
“We need to get this *right*, and not deny anyone their right to due process… even though it is *extremely* frustrating to see TMH n’ friends remain free and uncharged in the mean time.”
~~~ I agree as long as it doesn’t turn into this:
http://www.bangordailynews.com/story/Penobscot/Mom-seeks-FBI-help-in-1980-homicide,150851
This case started when I was fourteen. I turned 44 today
.
@ Blink
You rock! I don’t post much because someone else always posts what’s on my mind much more eloquently than I ever could and just cheer from the sidelines.
My apologies to news, I got confused and I think I read the post wrong – it should have been in response to VTLady. . .darn newbie (me)!
It seems to me that DD’s employers and fellow workers could clear up whether it was logical for DD to be out of sight for that period of time on that day. They could explain the nature of the job that DD was involved with and how far the job extended on the property. If DD was nowhere to be seen on the areas of the property where the landscaping project was being done, then DD would certainly have a lot of explaining to do.
Maybe the employers and fellow workers have already given this info to LE and LE is not disclosing it to the media. Maybe LE is keeping silent about this because they feel they can use it to their advantage in terms of an immunity deal for DD.
MOO
Best interest of the child? Phooey! If that were the case, these lawyers wouldn’t charge so damn much and take so much of the kid’s parents’ assets. I’m not buying that one buddy. Best interest of their own bank accounts is more like it. Divorce lawyers can be brutal. I have not been divorced, but I’ve been witness to the collateral damage.
There is a way to fix em though. Just call their home in the middle of the night and hang up on their spouse. Just plant that seed. They certainly won’t be playing their best game.
Karma4Kyron you said:
So according to DD, her day went something like this:
- Arrive at job site, with phone
- Get phone call
- Disappear for a few hours without telling anyone, without (or without answering) phone, missing call from co-worker who was looking for her
- Be seen at the job site later
You forgot: ~Miss a meal that she was expected to be a part of
(Sorry and yup I am being snarky here but, that woman doesn’t look like she misses a whole lot of meals to me.)
Moooooooo <all innocent like
Re: Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez
Differences between Federal, State, & Local Inmates
Only persons convicted of violating Federal laws (that is, laws of the United States) are sent to Federal prisons. Some individuals awaiting trial for violating Federal laws are also held in Federal prisons. While the Federal Bureau of Prisons (Bureau) does house a few state inmates, most inmates convicted of violating state or local laws are sent to state prisons or city or county jails.
Thanks B. Kind of figures.
It’s sad that Oregon is such a beautiful place on the surface, but we have quite an underworld. What a “normal” resident would never know (or close their eyes to) in their daily world to work, shopping, and life. We have unspeakable crimes to children. Gangs and meth labs in “affluent” neighborhoods have sprouted up from LA or Mexico, lots of desperation and drugs in the picture.
I’ve known Mexican residents, legal or otherwise, to be absolutely wonderful people. But in the farm camps (and there are several in Hillsboro – one relatively close to me), evil can hide. I hope those locations are monitored.
@wendy’scrush…thank you for sharing with us about your lunch, I feel so sorry for all these kids involved and pray for them to find peace and happiness.
@beejay…thanks for link! Has it ever been established that Anselmo and Rudy knew each other? I know we talked about it but I’m not sure it was ever confirmed. If I remember correctly, and correct me if I’m wrong, but Anselmo was arrested on or about June 6th.
@News…interesting stuff. The word “stuff” goes to prove exactly how much I know about legal jargon, I can tell you that you are explaining things much better than I can!
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
LoriD says:
August 17, 2010 at 11:25 pm
Heres a link to the interview where Andrea states that Kiara was in Terri’s arms.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013828-504083.html
———————————————————–
Hi LoriD. I posted this comment earlier. If you listen to the whole 9+ minute interview; you will discover that Andrea never actually says that Terri is holding Kaira Or whether or not Kiara is with Terri.
And she explains that she was talking to Terri about Kiara being sick because Andrea knew from the day before that Kiara was sick.
I can’t explain why the misquote appears in the written article.
Last week LE issued a “Wanted” poster showcasing DD’s pictures asking if anyone had seen her and TH on June 4th. Making them the #1 and #2 suspects in this tragic event. DD countered by giving a interview to a national magazine, stating where she had been that day and that she had answered all of LE’s questions; she just didn’t (couldn’t) say what they wanted to hear. Pretty bold on her part – her attorney practices personal injury, not criminal.
The day before, LE held a press conference to issue a APB on the white truck that TH was driving that fateful day and asking if anyone had seen it parked at two locations that were different than where TH had said she parked. Next day the school’s groundskeeper told a news reporter – Nope, he didn’t see any white truck on the access road but his own.
Seems as though TH was where she said she was between 8:45 am and 10:15 am and even has a witness who interacted with her and saw the fussy baby. And whether it was intentional or not, the video survellience of the FM parking lots and the white truck, surfaced on the internet. Meaning, LE has video of everyone who got out of that truck and anyone who was around that truck. No Kyron sighting.
Now Rudy, who according to blink is the key to this crime, appeared before the GJ last week. Is he in custody? Did he tell the GJ what he was involved in, i.e. kidnapping? sting? and did he tell where Kryon is?
And what about the Sanchez @ Sheridan? Is he just illegal or is he directly involved and did he tell where Kryon is?
And lastly, Michael Cook. Are we to believe that he is just a schumck who stumbled into the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons? And why hasn’t he appeared before the GJ?
We may be aware of the usual suspects, but we still do not know the who, what, when and why of what happened.
@mag603 – The pair also assumed they were under surveillance. “Any conversations that we wanted to have, we’d go out into the yard,” Spicher says. “When we were in the house, we’d talk about the kids, we’d talk about her marriage, talked about her family.”
That was the exact quote that stood out to me as well…if they had “nothing to hide”, why go to the yard to avoid surveillance? Besides kids, her marriage, and family what else would there be to talk about!!!
DeDe’s attorney should not have allowed this interview to happen…the appearance is that DeDe is talking b/c she craves attention but is leaving a trail of damaging comments….
I am positive Terri was told, at least initially that the house was bugged.
No offense, but when Mr. B and I need to have some “loving words”, we try our best to stifle it, or go out of kiddie earshot as appropriate. This does not make her suspicious in and of itself to me- the timing of the purchase of the phones, however, is critical to me.
B
O/T –
Just wanted to say I had been following this case a bit – probably not on anyone’s radar if you don’t live in IL – and was pleased with the sentence handed down. So many times it seems pedophiles get off awfully easy.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/08/youth-soccer-coach-gets-50-years-for-child-porn.html
@ MockingbirdSings says: August 18, 2010 at 2:46 am
“It does seem that Terri has the most to lose by doing this unless it is thought that if/when she is found not guilty she could bargain for a better settlement from the divorce.”
Not really. At this point, Terri has not seen Kiara since late June. In a few months, Terri will have very little chance of getting primary placement (“custody”) of Kiara. Little kids need frequent contact with a parent in order to maintain a relationship with that person.
Let’s say Terri is never charged and/or found not guilty, the civil court has a much lower threshold (a preponderance of evidence, i.e. 50% plus something) compared to the criminal court’s threshold of beyond a reasonable doubt.
Oregon is a no-fault state, and the court divides property based on a “fair and equitable” basis. That does not mean equal, however. Let’s say the court finds that Terri has engaged in misconduct — not necessarily with Kyron, but something that consumed community funds, the court has the power to give Kaine money to compensate for his share of the community funds that were lost. The court also has the ability to award a disproportionate share to the custodial parent in order to provide for the care of the child.
“But even if she were charged with something tomorrow, I can’t see the case being over in 2 years.”
The divorce court can and almost certainly will get the divorce resolved as to all issues within the two year period, even if the court has to appoint a guardian ad litem to stand in place of Terri Horman during the litigation.
“It seems like these things take forever in spite of your right to a speedy trial.”
Speedy trial applies to criminal matters, not civil litigation. Defendants frequently waive the right to a speedy trial in order to allow time to prepare a defense. Criminal defense attorneys sometime push for a speedy trial when the prosecution has a complicated case and/or lots of witnesses, in hopes that the prosecution won’t be able to get his or her act together in time for trial. It’s a huge gamble, but it has been known to pay off from time to time.
Don’t even get me started on the injustice that an accused dirt-bag has a right to a quick resolution, while average people who just want to wrap up relationship and parenting issues have to wait. And wait. And wait.
“When it first came up, people suggested it was because Houze didn’t want her to be asked any questions in front of any court. What do you think?”
There is absolutely nothing anyone can say to law enforcement that will cause law enforcement to change its mind about someone it thinks is a person of interest or a suspect. Even innocent inconsistencies can be used against someone. As a result, there are many who would say only a fool would tell a client to talk to the police under any circumstances.
Having been the victim of an assault, I can tell you that even victims must act with great caution when dealing with the police. The guy who assaulted me did it in front of several people, and I knew that at least a couple of those people told the police in great detail what happened, and their statements agreed with what I told police.
When the police showed up to take the report and photograph my injuries, they turned around and asked me to repeat what happened multiple times (which I did, referencing notes that I took immediately following the assault), and they asked me what I thought the guy who assaulted me was going to say (which I told them “how would I know?” followed by — paraphrase — “The guy is a jerk; I don’t know why anyone would physically harm another person”).
As an attorney, I can tell you that the police kept asking me about what happened because they were looking for inconsistencies.(This was stupid, as there were so many witnesses, and I was on the phone with 9-1-1 the moment he started to walk away, as I was already holding my phone in my hand.)
The police also wanted to see what I said about what I thought the other guy was going to say, again, because they were looking for inconsistencies or an admission.
It was eye opening, as most people don’t think twice about talking to police. Having (briefly) worked at a criminal defense firm, I was in lawyer mode from the moment I got off the phone with 9-1-1. (I’m quite sure my 9-1-1 phone call was not helpful, as I was shaking and crying, and I couldn’t even read the operator the street address even though it was right there in front of me.)
“I first went to Family Court about 25 years ago and was horrified by what could be said about me with no warning and no opportunity to prove it wasn’t so, since it wasn’t like a criminal court.”
Sounds about right. And worse, what happens in a civil court can be used as evidence in a criminal court. Under those circumstances, it’s easy to see why Terri’s attorney would ask for an abatement.
Assuming Kaine is not involved with Kyron’s disappearance, it’s also completely understandable that he would lash out at Terri if he thought she might have some involvement or knowledge of what happened. His actions in the civil action reflect a great deal of anger and some serious control issues, though both are probably justified under the circumstances.
As a person, I may hold a particular view about the various players in Kyron’s disappearance(and believe me, I do). As a lawyer, I recognize that Terri has not been charged with a crime, yet she has been crucified by anyone and everyone.
It is entirely possible that Terri wasn’t where she said she was, yet she had no involvement whatsoever in Kyron’s disappearance. As such, it is not helpful to look at this case with such a narrow focus, as there may be an unrelated person who is the perpetrator (or perpetrators) and they’re going to walk because law enforcement has focused on Terri and her friends at the exclusion of everyone else.
Steven Hatfill and Richard Jewell are just two examples of people that were the sole focus of law enforcement — and declared guilty by the media, yet were completely innocent.
“Now many places require mediation and parenting classes but you can still get blindsided in court.”
Restraining orders are a great way to get control of a family law matter. Although the court claims to look at TRO applications skeptically, the truth is, there is a huge advantage in being the first person in the door with the first pleadings the court reads.
“The first judge I saw was retired and came in to reduce a backlog of cases – he repeatedly said the attorneys should hurry up since he had a fishing trip planned and it was Friday and he didn’t want to be there.”
Had the same thing happen to me recently when a judge told me that an emergency ex parte motion (with notice to all parties) should not be heard on a Friday afternoon (say what?) because it was Friday afternoon (as though there is any difference between Friday from any other day). The emergency that was basis for the motion occurred at noon that day (Friday), and the soonest my client could have conceivably brought the matter on emergency motion was that same afternoon, which is what she did.
I had to wonder what the judge would have thought had he been in my client’s shoes. Fortunately, the judge ended up granting my client’s request, FYI.
“His decision was reversed the next Monday because he didn’t read the court ordered custody report – and said so.”
There’s a ruling that speaks for itself. How nice of the judge to articulate his thoughts with such clarity, as I am sure it made for a great record on appeal.
“That one case went all the way to the Oregon Supreme Court (with no changes) and began again with what was essentially “harassment by motions” in my opinion.”
I am so sorry for what happened to you, whatever it was.
The big problem with family law is that most state legislatures write these largely aspirational statutes that are not explicit that if X occurs, then Y is the result. The result of broadly worded statutes is that judges end up with a huge amount of discretion to reach outcome-based rulings (i.e. giving one party the kids because s/he needs the child support, despite a parenting assessment recommending a 50/50 split parenting plan and a history of split custody).
“Much later, one of my family members went to law school and I found I really like discussing legal issues (except international business) – just too old to go back to school now.”
No, you’re not. Law is a great second or third career. There are reading lawyers who learn the law under apprentice-type programs, which can be a great choice for older law students. There are also many older students in law school. (I was one of those older students. Though it was not easy to go to law school after many years away from higher education, I am very glad that I did so.)
“Following what is happening with the Horman’s now is really tough because it’s a Family Court case intertwined with a non-existent criminal case that is being tried in our imaginations”
Yup! (Also not a legal term. LOL.)
“Mostly what I have learned in a nutshell is that the average person can’t determine for themselves what a particular law is or how it’s interpreted simply based on a generic version of common sense.”
Don’t sell yourself short. Some people do just fine in family court representing themselves. However, most times, these people have minor issues (i.e. who gets Smelly the Cat), not devastating allegations (i.e. a party who is concealing assets, allegations of sex abuse, etc.).
“I have a great respect for the law and for courts and attorneys in general, but it’s not my field and I appreciate receiving information to help me understand what’s happening and the implications of it.”
I personally have a great respect for the law, a great many attorneys and the vast majority of judges.
Someone once told me, “Never underestimate the incompetence of your colleagues.” Juxtapose this with another bit of sage advice, “Competence [to practice law] is a very broad standard.” I’m sure you get the idea.
interesting contradictions in DDS statements:
http://widget.newsinc.com/fullplayerwvars.html?wid=1957&cid=507&spid=92266&freewheel=90017&sitesection=bostonherald_top
@Newsatfive comment:
August 17, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Rather than go point by point on your post, due to the length, I am going to say that I made very few assumptions and based my replies on the court document that was linked in Oregon Live.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35972054/Kaine-Horman-court-papers-objecting-to-his-estranged-wife-s-request-to-delay-divorce-proceedings
I believe it may be possible you had not read this prior to your response, based on you asking for citations/sources. The document above is my sources.
I am by no means a law expert and I am not averse to clarification if I do not understand the intended meaning of something in there. I am just going based on what I read, and I can see the ramifications of putting the divorce on hold.
As far as my opinion on TMH and her ability to be gainfully employed and the source of her attorneys fees, if shes going to be making 350K on a book deal for example, and she owes child support to Kaine should he get custody, it is pretty relevant. If it is a loan from some friends then clearly kaine has no say in it. If it was money she squirreled away for months or years (at least part of it) that is considered marital income and subject to division just as his assets are divisible.
The divorce filings were about the child and the child’s rights first. Not the wishes or desires of the parents or what is best for Terri.
Again MOO
I’m confused. Are Rudy Sanchez and Anselmo Sanchez both with RS Landscaping? Are both incarcerated at this time? Did either or both appear before the GJ?
I don’t believe Terri and DeDe may have understood how disposable cell phones work but had gotten the idea after Kyron went missing (from other friends who knew).
Otherwise, I would think they would have used disposable phones from the beginning with fake names. Which makes me think maybe this wasn’t planned that far in advance, not thorough research done to hide evidence.
And many illegal people are aware of disposable cell phones and use them because they move from place to place. So has anyone heard about the Sanchez cell phones? Would think LE has reviewed those too.
@Kaylee
thanks I just read today’s it
much better than yesterday
Sorry posting so much today. Last for awhile. Did you see the article below:
http://thesop.org/story/opinion/2010/08/18/why-a-mob-mentality-an-irrational-hatred-for-dede-spicher-and-terri-horman.php
Most noteworthy is the part in article of observation – Terri took the time to print the Kyron’s photograph so quickly. Cheers and prayers to Kyron.
lyla says:
August 18, 2010 at 1:26 pm
I’m confused. Are Rudy Sanchez and Anselmo Sanchez both with RS Landscaping? Are both incarcerated at this time? Did either or both appear before the GJ?
——————————————————————-
Hi Lyla.
Anselmo is incarcerated; federal custody. That has been posted here and revisited from time to time. I don’t know about Rudy.
As per Blink, much earlier in this thread, Rudy testified in the grand jury sometime during the week of Aug 2-6.
I read somewhere that Amselmo lived in the house that is listed as the business address of RS Landscaping.
I try to only post information I can link to a source. But in this case of Anselmo’s residence, I just can’t remember enough detail about the context to begin to search it out. As it would be a crucial link to Rudy, I am interested in verification of this. Has anyone else read this who can link to the source? (I actually think it may be in one of Blink’s reply’s, in bold print, somewhere here; but I’m not sure.)
Well I wanted Terri’s friends to talk so now DeeDee is talking to a reporter
I should listen to her
She might say something interesting LOL
talk on DeeDee
Jen,
I translate that as, “they are barking up the right tree. They are on to the right scent.”
—————————————-
5.JEN says:
It’s too early for me to wrap my brain around this one. Help an analogy-deficient girl out.
August 18, 2010 at 9:36 am
Redrock says:
August 17, 2010 at 10:06 pm
Your dog barks up the wrong tree because A) You have a bad dog or B)
Sir Fox has already left.
Yep.
B, from B
Questions I would like to ask DeeDee
when did you hear Kyron was missing, what time was it?
What was your first thought on where Kyron was?
Dear Blink…regarding your response #22, are you suggesting that Dede and Terri were having “loving words” outside and that’s why they needed privacy from the bugged house? You mention that you and Mr. B go outside to have “loving words” away from the children’s ears but there were no children at the Horman home when DeDe moved in.
No.
Sometimes I just say what I mean. I meant that when Mr. Blink and I want to have a private conversation, whether it is the kind that married people with active children have on occasion, or the kind where we sneak in the pool for an adult swim to make up for the conversation that married people with active children have, it is not nefarious.
She knew she was a suspect by then, wth, of course they are yapping in the yard.
B
@ interested bystander says:
August 18, 2010 at 1:40 pm
re:I don’t believe Terri and DeDe may have understood how disposable cell phones work but had gotten the idea after Kyron went missing (from other friends who knew).
Otherwise, I would think they would have used disposable phones from the beginning with fake names. Which makes me think maybe this wasn’t planned that far in advance, not thorough research done to hide evidence.
And many illegal people are aware of disposable cell phones and use them because they move from place to place. So has anyone heard about the Sanchez cell phones? Would think LE has reviewed those too.
*******************************************************************
I will take that as a very generic statement/comment about the disposable cell phones since I have used disposable cell phones for years.. I am a senior citizen on a budget & only carry a cell phone for emergency use especially when I am in my car.. Other than that I never use my cell phone which is why the disposable pay-as-you-go cell phones are perfect for me & I am a legal citizen.. Also, as I recall no one asked me for my name when I bought the phone in the dollar store; & I just bought the phone & a pre-paid phone card with it, called in the SIM card number & received the phone number; poof instant activation.. Love it.. I believe they only ask your name, address etc if you choose to have the cost of the minutes debited from an account or credit card ..
21 Cathy Bickel says: August 18, 2010 at 11:43 am
@beejay…thanks for link! Has it ever been established that Anselmo and Rudy knew each other? I know we talked about it but I’m not sure it was ever confirmed. If I remember correctly, and correct me if I’m wrong, but Anselmo was arrested on or about June 6th.
____
I agree. Just what is this connection??? You (Mrs Blink) had posted Anselmo’s pic long ago on your website, and didn’t you say he worked for Rudy at RS Landscape? Is he the 3rd party? Or are the parties still Terri, DeDe, and Rudy? Please confirm. Why is Ansemlo even brought up? Was he only put in prison for illegal border crossing or were there sexual crimes he was arrested for?
Snap-
Respectfully, you are going to need to NOT misquote or adlib my articles, comments or other.
I have seen you flat out use quotes from me or others on this site without attribution and I have been as patient about that as i intend to be for copyrighted content.
I have NEVER said Anselmo worked for RS Landscape, ever.
Anselmo was brought up in the exact context of the piece, nothing more, nothing less.
Mr. A. Sanchez, and what he is the BOP for currently, is featured in several comments, including source links within this site, and frankly, I am over having others repost the same stuff over and over again.
You are welcome to the discussion, but I respectfully request you stop blaming others for leaps only you are taking.
Let’s move on
B
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20413793,00.html
The story begins, “DeDe Spicher, the “mystery woman” in the Kyron Horman case, says her friend Terri Horman was in a crisis of grief and fear in the weeks following her 7-year-old stepson’s disappearance on June 4.”
I expected the next paragraph would be some malarkey about Terri’s grief and fear being a result of the fact that her stepson was missing, but no. The next paragraph reads:
“We were very worried for her life. There were death threats against her. And again, whoever has taken Kyron is still out there and could be after her, too,” Spicher, 43, tells PEOPLE in an exclusive new interview.
Really? Wow. Now I realize she might’ve said Terri was worried about Kyron, too, and the reporter just didn’t include that part, but the way it comes across certainly fits with the narcissistic portrait of Terri that has emerged.
It also seems pretty illogical and inconsistent, given the following:
“Any conversations that we wanted to have, we’d go out into the yard,” Spicher says. “When we were in the house, we’d talk about the kids, we’d talk about her marriage, talked about her family.”
They went out in the yard??! Where a vigilante sniper’s bullet could make good on the death threats?? That makes no sense. If I was in fear of my life (and also, believed the “real” kidnapper was still “out there”) to the extent that I had a friend with a fire extinguisher ready to clobber anyone who came in the door, I wouldn’t be going outside unless absolutely necessary. AND, if I felt I was in danger of being wrongfully accused and believed LE had my house bugged, I’d loudly and clearly blab, in the house, about anything that could prove my innocence.
DD needs to shut the hell up and go out and enjoy her last moments of freedom. She definitely is not doing Terri (or herself) any favors by granting interviews.
If I may, I would like to share something that happened to me this morning. Today was the first day of school, and my little guy was starting kindergarten. He had a doctors appt this morning and so I took him in about 15min late, walked him to class, and WATCHED him get seated in his chair. Hung around for awhile, chatted, went home. When I got home, I got a phone call from the school wanting to know why my son was not attending today!!!
What must have happened was the roll call was made and turned in before I got him to class. And I did appreciate them calling me even though I was having a heart attack or like val would say, I was shitting a pink twinky, LOL.. And although I have been trying not to let my mind go there, I keep thinking what if…?? And thinking of terri’s situation,and what was or is the one behavior that makes everyone suspect of her? The MFH?
Note: I realize how we have viewed terri affects my own behavior.I did not come home and download first day of school pics and send them to family, even though I wanted to. Yet that was what initially was thought of as odd. Why would downloading the pics of your childs milestones and sending them to family on the same day would be viewed as odd?
Speaking of pics, I wonder if Terri took this pic?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98299459.html?tab=gallery&gallery=y&img=35
This is a picture, not words. I have a hard time believing that a woman that sees the beauty of a child taking time to smell the roses could have anything to do with kyrons disappearance.
@Midwest Mom wrote: “I have a hard time believing that a woman that sees the beauty of a child taking time to smell the roses could have anything to do with kyrons disappearance.”
Looks like the typical picture people take at the Portland Rose Garden. It is hard to believe anybody could have involved with his disappearance, but somebody did.
I know my opinions are blunt and not always liked, but I don’t care. I will say what I’m thinking if it helps bring closure to finding a little boy. The following are my opinions and theories, I have nothing but the information I’ve read on these forums and no real proof of my own.
I think they knew all about disposable cell phones LONG before Kyron went missing. These people were CSI folks. I think there are a lot of symbols and secret actions for laughs in the entire disappearance. Was the CSI shirt deliberate? I think it was. A good laugh for DD and TH. I think they were saying “F U” with the shirt. I think everyone involved in this probably used these throwaway cell phones on June 4th. When DD purchased cell phones afterward, that was probably the SECOND time she purchased them. It would explain why DD didn’t have her own cellphone with her that day – she didn’t want it to be pinging where she was and she already had a throwaway cell phone. MOO.
I think DD is in this up to her eyeballs and the People mag interview just convinces me more that she is a cold and calculating liar. In fact she may have taken her little gardening tools with her “on the property” to help with Ky’s disposal. How convenient. Or she may not have needed them. That’s where LE should look, they should rip up that whole 35 acres in any direction for as long as it takes, as far as 3 hours would take DD by hiking to the location and back, since she didn’t take her vehicle. No cars were seen picking her up. Her own car didn’t leave. Almost a great alibi but I’m not buying it. MOO.
MOO it would explain pretty much everything. DD, LS and TH all meet at the pre-assigned location and take care of Kyron. That’s why they couldn’t be found from around 10:15 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. until TH pops up at the gym for some more alibi time (DD was missing even longer, maybe still in the woods finishing off the details with LS). The whole business of driving around and the pinging of Terri’s real cell phone in various locations was just to throw LE off. And the Michael Cook thing, planned by LE. Brian Pumala, still not sure about that one but I’ve heard NOTHING about him so it looks like a dead end, maybe the drive to SI by Terri was to deliberately make him look guilty. MOO.
The first FM stop for a receipt was just an alibi. The second FM was a meeting place with the LS, not in front of the store but over to the side. LS is the one who had Kyron; took him somehow from the school, I’m thinking by being silenced and placed in a container since LS was known there and it wouldn’t have looked odd that he was carrying out a container. They couldn’t risk Kyron walking out of the school and being seen by ANYONE – TOO MUCH RISK for something planned carefully. So he wasn’t visible when he left the building. That’s why no one noticed. Since the container/Kyron were already in LS’s truck, TH and LS (either 1 or both LS) could have driven together from the second FM in the LS truck to the pre-assigned location on the property where DD was working (again, SO convenient she was working close by that day). I wonder how many different ways there are of accessing that property? Again, all of this MOO and my theory only (MTO?)
IMO DD and TH think that LE is a bunch of idiots, and DD/TH enjoy saying cryptic things like “I never left the property” to make each other laugh when they see it on the News, and thinking they are so clever. Do I think they’ve both been on this website and other posting derogatory comments about LE under various names? ABSOLUTELY. And enjoying trying to throw LE and everyone else off the trail. MOO.
Also MOO DD is a narcissist pyschopath just like Terri, who is loving every minute of this and now is rewarded with a People magazine interview, I assume for big bucks. She couldn’t wait for this!!! Forget there’s a little boy missing, run to the tabloids and collect that money. Actions speak louder than words. Her actions say she is just as cold and selfish as TH. And SMILING after she went to the Grand Jury. What kind of person would SMILE? That little cryptic smile was for Terri to see on t.v. Another laugh for both of them. Any normal person, even if they weren’t involved, would by upset and/or frightened and/or crying at the sadness of a missing little boy and the stress of testifying to a GJ. MOO.
And DD with no kids. Couldn’t relate to kids (okay don’t jump on me here, it’s just a general statement and doesn’t include all people; we all know that MANY people who have never had children just don’t warm up to children or outright don’t like them; I didn’t really like kids very much until I became a parent and then all of a sudden I LOVED kids – but some childless people DO like kids, okay?). This People mag interview just shows how motivated DD is by money. To continue with MTO, yeah, DD never left the property, she just hiked out to the meeting place (ON the property as she said, another cryptic message) and took care of business with the others. Spot was already chosen, probably already prepared, all they had to do was bury and cover. Probably got rid of other things too, like the throwaway cell phones, tools, any other incriminating evidence. Then LS and possibly 2 LS’s covered it all so well with brush and “landscaping.” Some of them may have even had a change of clothes, maybe identical to what they were wearing already so no one would notice. Did DD ever take/pass/fail a lie detector test? Does anyone know? She probably never thought she would be dragged in, but she had a story ready just in case. They were all in it for money – multi-million dollar lawsuit settlement on the school, the City, etc. They thought this was the perfect crime to riches. They must have been feeling some real exhilaration over this for a couple of hours, thinking they got away with it, until the sh** hit the fan and they focused on TH so fast. I think that’s the only thing that went wrong initially; TH didn’t count on anyone thinking it was HER because she had alibis for most of her time, she was seen without Kyron that morning, she went to way too much trouble to get receipts and show photos and check in at places and then post Kyron’s picture on her FB page when she got home, no doubt another joke/laugh for all of them to look at later. MOO MOO MOO
I’m only puzzled by how TH EVER thought she would not be asked to take, and pass, a polygraph. My guess is she thought they would ask “did you harm Kyron” and she could honestly say No. She thought if they asked “do you know who did?” she could get away with saying no, if she didn’t actually SEE it done. But it probably came up deceptive on that one. And, “do you know anything about his disappearance,” she couldn’t pass on that. With the unexpected MFH scam and LS coming to her house, she called the cops because she had probably already planned that she would wash her hands of LS if anything came out. She would just play innocent and he would get blamed for taking Kyron, because he DID take Kyron. She’s just going to let him take the rap. Basically he was set up. He would have gotten his cut in the deal if it all came out okay, but since it didn’t, he’s out of luck. He’s a fool and he should tell what he knows. And he’s in JAIL, and DD and TH are not. MOO INFINITY.
IMO this was SO PLANNED, and planned for quite awhile, all very secretly. And there’s a good reason DY and KH pointed the finger(s) at TH and then DD – they instinctively knew who was involved, from Day One. MOO.
Ok at least I’ve given you a lot of thoughts to process and debate on, so if you want to start shooting holes in my theory, I’m done.
Let me have it.
Chia-
all that and no stated motive or purpose for such a disgusting plan?
B
TO ALL ABOUT RUDY AND ANSELMO:
Real life is calling me but I’ll go back later and look for my post that will explain how I, at least, found a likely relationship betwn. Rudy and Anselmo. It tracks them through Oregon Sec. of State’s business registration for RS Landscape Maintenance–owned by Rudy(Rodolfo)–with a principal street address in Milwaukie, OR; then using a people database and finding relatives/related names finally scoring one “Anselmo Sanchezsanchez”. (I’m sure I’m not the only one to have done this research.)
Ms. Blink is so coy! But, notice that she HAS referred to a group of gentlemen she calls “Rudy Sanchez and Associates” or something similar. Dig and you might find something hinting that they Rudy and Anselmo work together. Or did the Blinksters just make that connection?!
Before I leave, if Blink will allow, I’ll post some old stuff from B’s Rudy knew Kyron piece. If curious, read all around those posts.
(@cbickel: Anselmo was orig. booked into MCSO on July 8. Later transferred to the fed. prison, perhaps to free up space for the endlessly busy MSCO jail!)
OLD POSTS:
ColliMama says:
July 15, 2010 at 8:41 am
I’ve been following along, am I the only one lost here? Sanchez is a VERY common last name. Blink, are you insinuating that Anselmo is somehow related to Rudy? I think that’s a bit of a leap based on a last name search only…
Continually praying for Kyron and his family. I can’t even imagine.
No idea, simply reporting the fact that a Sanchez search for MCSO shows Anselmo
B
__________________________
beejay says:
July 15, 2010 at 9:06 am
…GUESSING that Anselmo works in the family business with Rudy. And since Rudy is already being held (?) and is a material witness in something, and was the sting landscaper, then Rudy would be the LS-lover? And Anselmo the hands-on Kyron disappearer?…
[the mysterious Blink remained silent]
__________________
Another one out on a limb, with the mysterious Blink quiet after this post:
Sue says:
July 15, 2010 at 9:35 am
Does Anselmo take orders from Rudy? Terri didn’t deliver as promised and Rudy took revenge via Anselmo on Kyron? What kind of truck does Anselmo drive? Where was he around the time of June 4th, 9:00 a.m. or so? U.S. Marshall hold could be for any previous crime in any part of the country but would be enough to hold him for questioning.
____________________
And again, this time with a response from Blink!!
Word Girl says:
July 15, 2010 at 9:50 am
Blink, I trust you well enough to know you wouldn’t just pull a Sanchez out of the air and put his photo on your door. Nope. Too big a risk and could ruin someone’s life–not something you do.
There had to have been a tip or connection–like, “well, he’s not the only Sanchez we’re interested in…” or even more direct than that.
[snipped]
WG-
I appreciate that, but cannot verify. I know you understand.
That said, if ANYONE that is related to this case OR OTHERWISE, is in this country illegally, and I am not making any accusations, those individuals should be prepared to see their faces on my site.
B
Hallelujah.
Nicely Done.
B
Another quote from Dede’s People article -
“”We were very worried for her life. There were death threats against her. And again, whoever has taken Kyron is still out there and could be after her, too,” Spicher, 43, tells PEOPLE in an exclusive new interview.”
So she was worried they would come after her? Not Kiara or James?
IMO it would seem that you would worry more about your kids than yourself, unless you are the connection between Kyron and “whoever has taken Kyron” and you know what kind of people they are.
Either that, or the statement is just a lame attempt at making people think that Terri has no idea who did this.
This is my favorite site for intelligent, rational views on this case. I admit to being too involved mentally and to reading other web sites about this case. I am concerned because the media and perhaps even the police are giving us inaccurate news. I tend to believe that terri is involved but I am also aware that insofar as her emails reported, I would bet we are getting only some of the contents. One local paper deliberately left out info about this case that tainted one’s perception. It IS a witch hunt (as her attorney says) at this point. I listen to all news with such a jaundiced view because it is all slanted, biased and seems to be opinion vs factual information. And because I have always been partial to the “little guy” in a fight, I swear I am starting to feel that Terri just might not be guilty. Just a feeling because I know the school closed ranks when this happened and the police zeroed in on Terri from day one. I am so confused. The rational part of me says she is involved but emotionally, I am feeling sorry for all the bashing she is getting when she is still innocent in the eyes of the law. The latest flyer from the police with DeDe’s face is almost ridiculous. Everything that has come out about both DeDe and Terri has been twisted with a very strong bias to make them guilty. So even tho I lean towards her guilt, I am getting angry. Maybe I should just stop trolling websites. (smile)
She could have printed the photo out at any drug store or photo nook/kiosk.
But I think it is unusual she would print this photo out in that AM time frame since the majority of her imagery seemed to be digital/online. Seems more CYA. Why print this one out? Did she offer other prints to her friend to view or just this. And I surmise she carried/pushed the baby while she did all of this. How did she pay for the print – I guess CC receipts were checked.
Had she printed the photo out, there likely would be video of her ingress/egress with the baby.
This is based on reports that she had a print, all of which could be incorrect.
Ok, what’s the deal with the photo?
B
Blink, I thought I did spell out the motive and purpose in my tirade above – MONEY by way of a zillion-dollar lawsuit (and of course getting rid of a child TH didn’t like in the process). LS was probably going to get paid a certain sum up front for the deed, but ultimately the big bucks would come to TH & DD from a settlement, with LS maybe getting more later. Is my whole scenario that far-fetched? Thank you. MOO
Interested Bystander,
Can you provide me with statistics concerning meth production in Oregon….specifically Oregon natives and/or white people versus Hispanics and or illegals? I would SURE love to see it. I know where I live, the white population is roughly 87% with the Hispanic population being roughly 6%. Oh, and please note the African American population being less than 1.2%. I wonder if the Black-Out laws have anything to do with that.
By the way, the most evil I have ever seen in the United States is instigated by WHITE PEOPLE.
Sincerely,
An interested, and observant, however WHITE, bystander would LOVE to see your EVIDENCE.
==============================================================
It’s sad that Oregon is such a beautiful place on the surface, but we have quite an underworld. What a “normal” resident would never know (or close their eyes to) in their daily world to work, shopping, and life. We have unspeakable crimes to children. Gangs and meth labs in “affluent” neighborhoods have sprouted up from LA or Mexico, lots of desperation and drugs in the picture.
I’ve known Mexican residents, legal or otherwise, to be absolutely wonderful people. But in the farm camps (and there are several in Hillsboro – one relatively close to me), evil can hide. I hope those locations are monitored.
Interested Bystander,
I forgot to ask…..
Don’t you think that any and all farm owners — Corporate OR Private — should be charged to the full extent of the law for facilitating employing illegal residents?
I only forgot to mention it originally as your blame game seems to be stuck on illegals only.
Get real.