Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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OL’s article about TH is incredibly insightful. Big a-ha: being genuinely surprised that her roommate was upset that she had moved her bookshelf filled with books outside only to be ruined by rain VS. seeming to be genuinely surprised when DY told her she was driving up right away as soon as she found out that Kyron was missing.
Honestly, I think that is parallel to people who torture or kill animals as children (often considered an indicator that something is ‘off’) and then grow up to murder.
Parts of her brain are just not lit up. Between this and beejay’s theories a few pages back, the picture is clearing up IMO. Not an evil stepmother necessarily, but a very damaged one.
@beejay: I have seen landscapers here frequently use the building’s maintenance/mechanical rooms. And the close proximity of this room to Kyron’s classroom would explain how someone would be able to snatch him up so quickly without someone else noticing.
beejay said:
August 19, 2010 at 4:50 pm @Phyl: Ah so. Esp. if the perp knew the school, knew the kid, knew his mom’s vehicle so knew when she’d left. There’s a mechanical room just below the stairs by Ky’s classroom.
——————————————————-
@RollerMonkey: Yep! Those pesky little details like failed lie detector tests, strange behavior, clamming up, alledged murder for hire plots, etc. keep squashing my stranger abduction theory too. Also RollerMonkey, your admirer sounded like the woman in that movie with Jennifer Jason Leigh and Bridget Fonda….Creepy scary.
RollerMonkey said:
August 19, 2010 at 6:47 pm 1) Kyron being taken by a stranger might seem more plausible if Terri hadn’t lawyered up. And if Terri hadn’t failed at least portions of her polygraph exam.
———————————————-
I am now off to go organize my Tupperware. I’d just hate to read what someone might say about my tupperware storage habits. YIKES!!
I found this informative, from local KGW yesterday. Hope the link works.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Grand-jury-still-hearing-Kyron-Horman-case-101124089.html
Interesting we learn of TH’s involvement and employment in the restaurant business. ( other than the chubby’s thing).
This is a sure way to meet people from all walks of life. Additionally, the timing of DD’s sudden change in character seems to mirror that of KH & TH’s problems, no? I find it doubtful that JW claims he didnt hear much of the Horman’s. DD & TH’s relations appear to have gone back several years. Good research Dee & beejay, though it seems you all came to different opinions, lol!
@snapoutofit says:
August 20, 2010 at 12:01 pm
“…With all of the extensive searches for Kyron just in the immediate area of Skyline school and surrounding area, I don’t understand why LE isn’t any closer to finding Kyron.;;”
_____________________
I wish we KNEW what evidence LE does in fact have. I’m afraid we don’t. I read they took dogs into the school the first night. I’d like to know what they found then. And what forensic evidence they’ve found later. Most of the early collected physical evid. should be back from the lab by now. They might have everything in the way of physical evidence by now except a complete body.
LE is not going, IMHO, to release any info about what they’ve found or not unless it furthers their “case”.
And, LE is free to withhold, distort, misrepresent, outright lie about what they know also. Constraints being public relations and media relations.
JW is a child advocate who claims to have logged more hours helping children than any other man in the state (per his letter)…so I find it very hard to believe that he is shocked that someone could kill a 7 year-old child (and didn’t he say he believes Kyron is stashed in a safe house in that same letter anyways) when even Manson and Bundy did not stoop so low. What??! Completely different M.O. Well if he spends that much time working with high-risk children and their families, then he should have absolutely zero reason to be shocked. I’m just a teacher and I’ve seen enough to know it is so possible…many children are surrounded by crazy people. Anyone who reads the news knows it happens…hello?? Look how many children have been murdered by family members OR significant others this year. He is at minimum an idiot.
Twinkletoes, Blink, all:
I’d really want to hear a child’s take on DeDe. Little kids seem to have really good radar with adults. Of course that radar can be over-rided by slick ruses, such as, “here little girl, want some candy?” or “Can you help me find my puppy?”, but I am always amazed at how perceptive the little ones can be. Did DeDe spend anytime with Kyron? Did he share with anyone his take on her? Did he like her?
B-DeDe absolutely creeps me out too. The finger I put on it is that she sports a huge personality disorder and wears it proudly. I think she is enjoying the limelight immensely, and that is creepy in itself. Her body language just exudes a blatant disregard for the situation she finds herself in and the seriousness of it. She appears detached and unaffected, and struts about as if she is some hot babe…which she so is not. She makes TH look like Mother Theresa.
I do think whether or not there is a lesbian relationship involved interests people because it might speak to the degree at which someone might go out on a limb for another. Sexual attraction has a pull unlike no other so it might well speak to why DoDo would involve herself with TH to such a degree and somehow justify it in her very twisted little brain.
Beejay said, “I wish we KNEW what evidence LE does in fact have.”
@Beejay: I can’t get the image of the policeman crying out of my head. To me that was really significant.
Blink, you wrote:
Imo, there is no motive to be found here that I am aware of as to a possible romance between TH and DS.
I do not usually say this, but in the interest of disclosure I feel I must.
Dede absolutely creeps me out. I mean, everything about her. No malice intended, and I cannot put my finger on it.
B
Then in response to Twinkletoes comment you wrote –
lol, I wish I could get there because I feel irresponsible having such an opinion and not understanding why-
Here is my best effort:
I imagine her in the role of Kathy Bates in Misery.
There seems to be such a disjoint between things she claims to be into vs. the actual.
I can hear her say dodie bird or whatever in my head
B
_____________________
I have to admit I have had this creeped out feeling regarding my father-in-law for years and was unable to put my finger on it. Then one day I realized that something about him just exudes a lack of integrity. I have known him to be less than honest and then one day just realized that is what really bothers me. He just is not trustworthy and something about his demeanor displays this.
Something about DS bothers me as well and it could be similar, but just wanted to mention this about my FIL because my feelings towards him sound similar to your “disjoint between things she claims to be into vs. the actual.” I think often times when someone is not totally straightforward, or even just unsure of who they are, they can wear it on their sleeve.
Annals says:
Re: Terri’s profile on Oregonlive
I flag these areas;
Moving new room mate’s bookshelf (still loaded with books) out to the yard to be rained upon. Then is hurt when room mate questions the action. Terri didn’t get why that was a problem. [Big flag here.]
Required DAILY behavior reports from Kyron’s teacher. Wanted Kaine to dicipline him each day his behavior was not perfect. There was no room for error, according to Kaine.
Vented to Desiree in daily emails about Kaine, about everything and about the teacher (Terri thought she should have the teachers job).
And, finally this, about sending James away;
“I was on a business trip when she made that decision,” Kaine said. “She called me on my first day (in California) and said they had gotten into a fight. She couldn’t handle it anymore. She was going to call his dad to talk about other options.”
Kaine said he didn’t want James to move out, but it wasn’t his decision
—————————————-
Other big red flags for me (MOO):
Terri rearranged the room and threw away materials that belonged to the teacher she was subbing for (who was on maternity leave). As a 33-year teacher, I can tell you those actions are unheard of and display a warped sense of entitlement.
On SM there was an (unconfirmed) report about a Hillsboro parent whose special-education child had Terri as a long-term sub. Evidently the child was always leaving things laying around. When his coat was found in the toilet, Terri made him wear it all day. The parent complained and Terri was relieved of that particular position.
After Ecker (Terri’s second husband) adopted James and after they divorced, Terri upped his child support from $169 to nearly $550 a month. Ecker stopped by Terri’s house to ask if they could amend the payments. She seemed amenable to a reduction, but the next day he got a call from the Sheriff’s office to stop harassing his ex-wife. Seems a particularly cruel thing to do, considering all that Ecker had done for her – including the adoption and denying himself a college education in order to pay for hers (according to his parents).
Sending James away. By all accounts Terri had been a very good mom to James. If she was so fed up she sent her own child away, there’s no doubt in my mind she would have no problem sending Kyron away as well.
Money. As an adult, Terri has a history of having others take care of her (ex-husbands, parents on several occasions, lawsuit, etc.), but seemingly has no history of ever really taking care of herself. If Kain put the breaks on her spending money “like water”, there was certainly motive if a financial element was involved in Kyron’s disappearance.
Blame and Lying: TH has demonstrated a pattern of blaming (to anyone who will listen, according to GJ testimony) and lying – yet does not seem capable of taking responsibility for her own actions.
What I find troubling about TH is that she has a pattern of using people then spitting them out without a thought when they are no longer of use to her.
Reading this article was like reading an Ann Rule book. I personally believe Terri is self absorbed and despicable. However, whether or not she is actually guilty in Kyron’s disappearance (and to what degree, if at all) remains to be seen.
Again, MOO.
My heart aches for James. What a sweet and loving child. He demonstrates loyalty to both Terri and Kaine, and puts the blame squarely on himself for skipping school while attending Lincoln (who wouldn’t love to spend all day at Powell’s Books)? I’m so glad he seems to be doing well with his father and step-mom.
My heart aches for Kiara. How will her life be impacted by all that has transpired and what may possibly transpire in the future? My prayers go out to her.
And poor sweet, sweet Kyron. Devastating. May God have him in his care.
The article published on OL as a profile of Terri was fascinating. She was consistently portrayed by those interviewed as someone who loved and doted upon her son James and, in general, took an active and concerned role in the lives of all 3 of the kids in her house. But then the article would reveal contradictory statements that she was always good about letting the kids be kids and was very patient with them to the ones that said she ran a tight ship and, as a teacher, was really demanding. For instance, by making the kids get in a straight line and remain quiet.
That said, I hope I never get scrutinized one day for a crime because some of my own behaviors might get put under the microscope. I’m a bit of a control freak, like having things do “just so”, I do take pride in my and my family’s appearance, I like having nice things and I keep my home nice and tidy. I’ve never visited a therapist but I’m sure much of my quirks and behaviors stem back to having had a chaotic home life as a child and I’m trying to make up for it. I don’t think I’m psychotic.
I’m not at all trying to defend Terri and her behavior sounds much more extreme than mine but I guess what I’m trying to say is that it’s sometimes hard to get an accurate assessment from someone, especially people who know that the person they are talking about might be involved in something nefarious. It’s easy to go back and start looking at things differently and assigning suspicious behaviors to people.
But, it does sound like something changed with her or something happened after she had Kiara. The bodybuilding sounds like she takes things to extremes and if it cannot be “perfect”, she abandons it entirely. Who knows! I’m no therapist so I can’t say.
I just hope that something breaks with this case before Sept 9 (Kyron’s 8th birthday) as I can’t imagine the additional pain his parents will have to deal with that day if he is still missing.
@Phyl, you said: “…I can’t get the image of the policeman crying out of my head. To me that was really significant….”
_________________________
Absolutely. At the time I thought, jeez, he knows Ky’s dead, but can’t tell Ky’s parents that. Or tell anyone else. So he’s got that burden on top of the sadness of Ky being dead. Holding a secret like that is the worst–no place to get support for yourself in dealing with the personal feelings about the loss.
I’ve never seen anything like it. And I knew he didn’t have PMS!
@ Montana Mom says:
August 20, 2010 at 12:53 pm
You were thinking about all the time JW spends with the kids and families in his advocacy work (I’m paraphrasing you).
Acc. to the job description for those volunteers they are supposed to never have any personal contact with either the kids or their families. The work is all reviewing paper files about their placements, etc.
Scroll upthread a bit and I put in a link to the website. You can get all the details about the actual work.
It’s supposed to be totally on paper. Reviewing what the caseworkers did and deciding if it was appropriate or not; having a chance for input if you saw a problem. And they do train them as to what to keep in mind about the cases. They’re not making placement decisions; just reviewing, as citizens, what the caseworkers are doing.
Go read their required training, who presents it and such for more info. on what JW is actually supposed to be doing there. Sounds like a decent watchdog program. We sure could use something like it here.
Blink and Twinkle – I too am creeped out by DeDe and especially now after reading her creepy ex-boyfriend’s letter about himself.
For me it’s because of the huge disconnect between how people who know her perceive her and the real accomplishments and experiences of her life.
All the things she claims to be ‘into” are all the things considered trendy in Portland right now. To be into these things, healthy lifestyle, education, organic gardening etc. would be respected and she would SEEM to be a very intelligent, vivacious and worldly woman.
However, when viewing the facts of her existence, the “into” seems more an aspiration and dream of DeDe’s instead of an actual lifestyle. In reality, she is not that healthy, she lacked the stick-with-it-ness to maintain a healthy lifestyle. I don’t think the planning and packaging of meals her ex mentioned make her odd. A lot of people when dieting do this since its not as easy to whip up a healthy meal or snack as it is to eat a bag of chips. For DeDe, maintaining healthy eating habits took a lot of concentration and planning. When the wrench of unemployment hit, it derailed both.
The education part – she met this ex while they were taking classes at a community college. At her age she should be working on a dissertation or post-doc or second degree if she was really “into” education. She’s had no obvious barriers, like careers, kids, husbands to hold her back from pursuing and obtaining an education.
Her career – or lack thereof. By the time most women who have worked their entire adults lives are her age, they have moved past a receptionist position (the job she lost).
Homeowners Assoc Pres – We don’t know the rules of the association with respect to term limits. Perhaps you can only be Pres once in a certain period of time and if this is the case, then it doesn’t make her special to have served in this position. Term limits would open the door to this position to all homeowners and probably require they participate at one time or other. On the other hand, if there are no term limits and she was so wonderful, why did she not maintain her position, especially with so much extra time on her hands being unemployed.
Like the people in her life, she is always after the things she admires, but never really achieves any of them (ex reveres himself for being a child advocate, but in reality he builds fences on other people’s property). She collects people who talk a line of stuff. They too are “into” self enrichment, but never achieve anything but disappointment in themselves.
She’s a chameleon, who knows a little about a lot, appears very interesting and can be anyone you want her to be. She’s been raised to be humble and kind and acts that way so people like her, not because that’s how she feels inside.
Snap, thanks for the link to the Clint VanZant interview. I feel his input is always reliable.
Off topic here…just skimming through TH’s pics…this one in particular :
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2044075&id=1264414625#!/photo.php?pid=861618&id=1264414625&ref=fbx_album
(Under Kiara’s 1st birthday album)
“Kyron’s class (Ms. Porter). Where was Kyron do you ask? Yeah, he went to the bathroom without telling anyone. *sigh*”
November 12, 2009
Makes me wonder about theories of her setting up a school abduction and later suing the school
I wonder if the Terri & DeDe relationship is more psychological than sexual. The OL article paints Terri as manipulative and someone who uses others to get what she wants (or at least that’s what it sounded like from Ron Tarver and his parents). Perhaps DeDe was/is infatuate with Terri and Terri knew it and used that to her advantage.
I keep going back to that video of DeDe leaving the courthouse and smirking at the camera. Normally, when you see people leaving courthouses with a bunch of cameras and reporters rushing them, they turn away and put their heads down. DeDe saw the camera and looked right at it with that look on her face. Initially, people like Jaymie Finster spoke to the media about Terri and what a good mother and good person she was. Where has Jaymie been lately? Other people’s homes were searched and they were questioned by authorities but none of them has been quoted in People magazine. Instead, they’ve actively sought to distance themselves from Terri. That, IMO, would be a normal reaction when a friend is enmeshed in a missing child case. DeDe’s behavior is not normal, IMO.
I can’t access oregonlive at work for some reason and am dying to read the article, but am REALLY concerned about what’s been posted regrding TH’s strictness with Kyron and his behavior, requesting punishment of sending him to his room all night??? Dailey discipline regarding a report from the teacher? I have always worried about how he wouldn’t come out of his room in the mornings until someone came to get him. What in the world did that woman do???
Just read the article about TH requesting daily behavior reports from Kyron’s teacher. KH was quoted as saying that was excessive. He goes on to say “there was no room for error.” Honestly, this sickens me. TH was only allowed to treat Kyron in whatever way that KH allowed her to treat him. If he felt it was excessive, and it does seem it was, he should have put his foot down. We shouldn’t always assume that just because a step-parent has invested many years into raising a child that they always act in a way that is in the best interest of the child. In my opinion KH failed his son in this area.
Before you all attack me for not 100% supporting KH, let me say that I’ve lived that life. My step-mom was physically, mentally, and emotionally abusive. Now that I’m older, I realize that she could only hurt me because my father allowed it…and yes, he knew it was going on…he just chose to pretend he didn’t.
Another thing I’d like to add…was on the THSP at Facebook this morning (NO I am not a supporter). There was a person by the name of Liewe Lulu who posted a message to the administrators (of that support page). It said “will one of the administrators please email me, I have something to tell you that may be of importance”.
I seriously hope that if this Liewe Lulu person thinks it is of importance, that he/she would call the tipline or 911 to report to the PROPER authorities. And I also hope that the administrators of this Terri Horman Support Page will do the honest thing and REPORT to authorities whatever this person has to say to them.
The comments from Liewe Lulu are GONE now.
You know what, I’m sorry about my previous post. That in no way is useful in helping to locate Kyron or those guilty of his disappearance, and that’s what we’re here for. Just struck a nerve and I posted too quickly without thinking.
Now that we have this JW, Rudy, Anselmo, DD….I’m so confused. I can’t figure anything out. Blink—is JW part of this or just using this for 15 min of fame? My brain hurts.
@ Emmy says: August 20, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Regarding your FIL… “Who you are speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say.. ” -Emerson
http://www.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/citizenreview/CRBNetworkNews0706final.pdf?ga=t
Beejay…link to intelius page with Wishert info.
Oops…above link #13 is wrong…sorry. Below is correct.
PEOPLE SEARCH RESULTS
We found 1 person that matches Jason Wishert in the state of Oregon.
Click on the View Details or Get a Detailed Report link for more info.
= Available
Search Again >>
See Details on All 1 People!
Name Age Previous Cities DOB Phone Address Avg. Income Avg. Home Value Relatives
1 Jason William Wishert
View Details
41 Beaverton, OR
Portland, OR
Corbett, OR
Gresham, OR
Linda L Wishart
James Grant Wishart
Andrea J Wishart
Jennifer K Jones
Amy M Grice
Related People Lookups
■JAISON WISHERT
■JASEN WISHERT
■JAY WISHERT
■JAYSON WISHERT
■J WISHERT
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42.Shelly says:
August 20, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Early on it was asked if Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez was the same Anselmo Sanchez listed on this Crime Stoppers website for an incident that happened in 2002. Was it ever verified that it is the same person?
I asked this question early on, so sorry to repeat myself!!
http://a056-crimestoppers.nyc.gov/crimestoppers/public/publicmwViewfelon.cfm?mwID=474
_____________________________________________________________
That is not the person who appeared on the MCSO web site.
Shelly referred to “http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2044075id=1264414625#!/photo.php?pid=861618&id=1264414625&ref=fbx_album”
Clearly the kids posted for the photo, but some did not make it into the picture. I count 21 and a baby. The class had 27 kids (12 girls + 15 boys).
Probably over analyzing .. but the boy with the Adidas shirt on the right is holding his hands like Ky does on some of his picts. Why would the baby be in the picture? Don’t tell me they celebrated her birthday in Ky class ..
S, you said:
“All the things she claims to be ‘into” are all the things considered trendy in Portland right now. To be into these things, healthy lifestyle, education, organic gardening etc. would be respected and she would SEEM to be a very intelligent, vivacious and worldly woman.
However, when viewing the facts of her existence, the “into” seems more an aspiration and dream of DeDe’s instead of an actual lifestyle. In reality, she is not that healthy, she lacked the stick-with-it-ness to maintain a healthy lifestyle.”
I say: Yes, yes! What that says about DD, versus any of the rest of us, I’m not sure. But I agree that DD was trying on a lifestyle and immersing herself in each of her new activities, only to drift on to the next one, abruptly dropping the old for the new. She became very infatuated with each of her new ‘heroes’, so I would not be surprised to learn that she flung herself wholeheartedly into something with TH, something that required research, planning, and detailed execution. I think she had an altruistic bent, meaning that whatever she’s done with TH (if anything), she thought she was doing the ‘right’ thing.
It doesn’t reconcile that she was into all this locavore stuff and still eating at Red Robin and other places she mentions.
I’ve found an interesting source for mugshots. Haven’t done my homework yet to see why most of the arrests on this page are from Portland. But the commentator is quite amusing. Maybe some new faces for a flyer???
Be sure to check out over-the-hill William (Sorry, silly-time in order to lighten up before the weekend)
http://www.thepotshot.com/2010_03_04_archive.html
@Beejay:
Thank you for taking time to respond to my comment–I enjoy reading your posts. I hadn’t realized that he didn’t work directly with children and their families, but now I’ve read through the training information and I am still surprised that he finds it somewhat inconceivable that someone could kill their child. Especially with the training he has had–sex offender treatment, meth addiction/treatment…I did not see a session re: emotional/physical abuse. He should be familiar with the ugly dark side of some families and the horrible consequences.
I’m just saying that the feeling I got reading his words was that he was being somewhat of a Pollyanna…on purpose. Just because the three serial killers he named did not murder children does obviously not mean that a mother or someone close to her could not kill a child, and it rubbed me wrong that he would insinuate that having the background that he has. Not saying I think he is guilty of anything except tweaking my antennas.
On a positive note–interesting advocacy program. I can’t imagine reviewing decisions just based on written material, but that is probably because I am so used to working with the kids and families every day as part of my life. Good to get citizens involved!
@Dee: Several ideas here, but mostly I’m interested next in hearing when you get the info. back from Jason’s elem. school.
Meanwhile, for myself, I have to have more than 2 people sharing a common city as their address. I want the same house. Have you found that level of detail?
If you’ll look upthread a bit, you’ll find my link to the 2008 training conference materials for Jason’s DOJ gig. In their listing of the anniversaries of service for all their volunteers, they were spelling Jason’s name with an ‘e’. Wishert. My point to you is that within that agency even they have used both spellings for his name. So, that info. is not so helpful to us.
And lastly, what will your next step be if you find positive proof (such as get a certified copy of his birth certif.) that he was born WishArt? What do you know? Well, with that and his FULL name, you can more easily try to prove that Wm Kent WishArt, imprisoned for child porn, is his father. AND, that Jason lied about it. (FWIW, so would I. I’d lie to you right here to your face. I would be so ashamed.)
So, if you get the evidence to your satisfaction (not mine–you have nothing to prove to me), then you can proceed to try to show how that incriminates Jason in Ky’s case. Or whatever other use you want to make of it.
I’m really wanting to move on from this, but I’m interested in your report back with what substantiating evidence you find and what the eventual outcome is. I’m leaving the details of the research to you.
Tarheel I definitely can relate to your post… I went through a lot of abuse from a step-mom while my dad watched.. I think in his mind it would only make it worse if he stepped in. Plus she could really play the part of the loving SM when needed..
I really don’t think in my heart KH had any clue of the level of abuse that might have been going on..
I can hear her say dodie bird or whatever in my head
B
___________________
Dirty Birdy. I can see what you are saying. You know, she is kind of the anti-TH sexually. Never had a real BF before this dude. And none since. She probably thinks TH is pretty powerful and impressive. And TH probably found DeDe to be kind of . . . um, well, maleable and endearing.
evie, it never ceases to amaze me how people can project themselves and how others TOTALLY BUY INTO THE PROJECTION!!! And, they always seem to be the nicest people, sweet, interesting and interested, attentive. I’ve admired men who told me how much they loved their kids and supported them, only to find out later that their paychecks were being garnished for child support, current and in arrears. I’ve learned the important lesson of paying attention to what people do, not what they say until they have a proven track record.
Tarheel says:
August 20, 2010 at 2:49 pm
You know what, I’m sorry about my previous post. That in no way is useful in helping to locate Kyron or those guilty of his disappearance, and that’s what we’re here for. Just struck a nerve and I posted too quickly without thinking.
Tarheel, you have nothing to apologize for. My bio mother was psychotically violent with me and my siblings and we were all adults with our own children before we realized my father could have stepped up and stepped in to protect us.
Anything which reminds adults to be the grown ups and to protect children is helpful in bringing Kyron home.
@MockingbirdSings says: August 20, 2010 at 12:19 am
“Re my earlier post of legal quotes – I looked for the legal definition of “ongoing crime” but didn’t find one. Something like racketeering might qualify, but holding someone who has been kidnapped fits the definition in my way of thinking, too.”
I think there are two ways to take this: an ongoing crime is literally a crime in progress, but it could also be taken to mean an ongoing criminal enterprise.
What I would like to know is what crime or crimes could be committed on a fixed date yet considered ongoing even if the participant fails to take any other action, i.e. notify law enforcement?
And about that bookcase incident, that may not prove Terri had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance, but gosh, she is all about herself to the point where there has got to be a personality disorder, or something else seriously “not right” about her.
If it’s true that she made a learning disabled child wear her coat all day after it was shoved in a toilet, then all I have to say is that there’s not a hot enough place in hell. What was she thinking?
Terri’s selfishness is an excellent match for DeDe’s take on life. I keep coming back to DeDe’s facebook post in which she selfishly opined about this little dachshund bleeding all over her floor — not even in those nice of terms, mostly about the mess created by the blood and how she had to lock the dog up all day in the laundry room.
None of this means that either person did anything to Kyron, though I question the wisdom of allowing either one of them spending time with any child.
Someone posted here a while back about people seeking out those who are of the same level in terms of mental health. I guess that would explain why there is a laundry list of potential suspects, friends, and hangers-on who are all just either a little off kilter or all the way off the tracks.
Tarheel says:
August 20, 2010 at 2:45 pm
_________________________
@Tarheel
Yes, Kaine failed his son; absolutely. IF what he said about Terri’s disciplinary actions is true and if it rose to the level of being abusive. IF
What I try to keep in mind here as we hear all these comments from Kaine is that they might be exaggerated or colored by the fact that: (1)they had apparently already discussed divorce, so that can ramp up one’s rhetoric about your spouse; and (2)add to that, Kaine believes she had something to do with his son’s disappearance.
So, I take everything Kaine says right now as subject to the emotional state he’s in and the hatred he must have for her right now.
On a personal note: I’m sorry that happened. Hope you’ve made peace with it.
Tarheel says:
August 20, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Also; Tarheel says:
August 20, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Hi Tarheel.
I actually had the same reaction. When I was in school, parents were only contacted when something significant happened. Even a good kid (or maybe, especially a good kid) would be daunted by daily reports. Correcting a child for any and all imperfect behavior is a perfect recipe for emotional illness.
Sadly, I believe you’re right about Kaine’s not putting his foot down as per the friggin daily teacher reports. He had the legal right to do that, through the school, as a custodial parent.
I feel for Kaine (and Deiiree & Tony). I’m guessing that each of them made hard decisions about not rocking Terri’s boat for the good of the kids. She was the day to day caretaker. Probably they regret it. At what point is fighting with “the other parent” better for the kids, knowing that the fight may become vicious? Who hasn’t witnessed custody battles wherein everyone was bloodied, kids included? I think Kaine and Desiree were blindsided. Overly controlling parenting seems a far cry from what has happened to Kyron.
Tar, I know more than a couple of crazy ladies who are allowed to reign insanity on the kids and it’s ugly to see. Their weak husbands see the crazy and just shrink away from it. Believe me, those women have way more energy than their husbands who dread the chaos which might ensue any intervention. And yet, they CAN intervene.
I had the opposite; weak mom (in strong denial) with an abusive dad. It’s infuriating either way.
How could this kind of conversation help find Kyron? It probably can’t. But the insight into how Terri was “parenting” Kyron might go to motive. She was whittling him, daily, before his disappearance. It might mean something.
Thanks everyone for the comments. For the most part I think I have made peace with it. Nonetheless, I appreciate the support.
Now where is Kyron???
RE:
christy says:
August 20, 2010 at 2:19 pm
I can’t access oregonlive at work for some reason and am dying to read the article, but am REALLY concerned about what’s been posted regrding TH’s strictness with Kyron and his behavior, requesting punishment of sending him to his room all night??? Dailey discipline regarding a report from the teacher? I have always worried about how he wouldn’t come out of his room in the mornings until someone came to get him. What in the world did that woman do???
“““““““““““““““““““““
Oregonian (online) 7/20/2010
“Colleagues say she was a dedicated teacher yet during the past year she cracked down on Kyron when he had a bad day at school.”…
“Her attitude changed in the past year after Kyron entered second grade, he (Kaine) said. His teacher, with a color-coding system for her class, rated the kids on their behavior. Green was good, yellow signaled moments of inattention, blue indicated trouble and red sent them home.”…”
“Kaine said the teacher called parents about a blue or red card. But he said his wife was the only parent who asked for daily accounts from the teacher.”…
“Terri wanted notification whether it was green, yellow, red or blue,” he said. “Every day she wanted it. That, to me, is extremely excessive. The child is in second grade.”
“He said when Kyron brought home anything but a green card she wanted Kaine to discipline him by grounding him to his room for the evening, eliminating play time or not letting him watch movies.”
“There was no room for error,” Kaine said.”
“The couple frequently argued about disciplining Kyron, he said. ”
“”She was venting about the teacher and why she should have her job,” Desiree said”…
“Through mid-June 2002, she held teaching jobs… A former colleague at Mooberry Elementary, who asked not to be named, described Horman as dedicated but strict.”
“She had those kids walking down the hall in a straight line not talking,” the former colleague said. “She was really organized. She had everything laid out for days ahead. She was really in control of what she was doing.”..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with you, christy.
These statements showTMH over-riding need: to control as well, she was “perfect”.
Anyone around TMH had to keep up that “appearance”…or they found themselves punished (change your behavior to her standards) & remove (no family time ie.play time, watch movies)
Since Kyron was not “up to her standards”, he was to be punished and removed from the rest of the family for these “breeches to her perfect appearance”.
And James, well he was skipping school, found school boring (that must of been one, if not a few blow-out fights!) and just was not a good student (James statement).
So, how does TMH handle James (and the appearance of not controlling his behavior/schooling)?
TMH sends him away!
Her ex-roommate states,”She was devoted to that little boy,” she said about James. “He was the center of her life. She talked about him all the time.”
So we all can see how far James fell from “her perfect appearance”.
I have always have felt that TMH was doing “something’” to Kyron @ home.
When Desiree said he was crying and wanting to live w/ Tony & her in Medford.
It confirmed (what I always believed) the Medford side was NOT the problem.
And now, this article verifies ‘all those feelings’ were correct.
People seem/ed to buy into her facade and,
have willingly given her money for whatever she wanted at the moment.
People, it seems, are only ‘important to TMH in the moment(s) she requires them in her facade”.
As always, JMOO>
@newsatfive
I can’t forget that little dog bleeding on DeeDee’s floor
I love dogs
it just got to me to read that and some where she said she was
a dog sitter
if she is still dog sitting I hope she gets reported
animals bleed out pretty fast
I don’t know if she did anything to Kyron but by her own words I
know she did not treat a dog right
and that makes me upset
@ newsatfive says:
August 20, 2010 at 4:17 pm
“Someone posted here a while back about people seeking out those who are of the same level in terms of mental health. I guess that would explain why there is a laundry list of potential suspects, friends, and hangers-on who are all just either a little off kilter or all the way off the tracks.”
________________________
I’m smiling and nodding. Yep! Do they sound like your friends and relatives?! (Oh, sorry if they do. How insensitive of me.) “Birds of a feather” comes to mind.
That sure does complicate our detective work, though. Who’s the crazy one, who’s the crazy one????
The article doesn’t state that Kaine punished Kyron. In fact, it states they argued over how to discipline Kyron. That says to me that Kaine did state his opposition to her handling of the situation regarding what color he came home with on any given day. IMO Kaine wasn’t as easily manipulated as previous spouses. I think that’s when the MFH plot began.
@tarheel, I appreciate your comments very much. I agree that it doesn’t really, literally do anything to help bring sweet Kyron home, but it does serve as a reminder to not sit by and watch abuse happen to an innocent or even a not so innocent child. No child deserves this.
I have been very fortunate to have grown up in a loving, but far from perfect family where there was no abuse by either parent. But since having my own kids, I have learned of abusive behavior by some of my children’s friends’ parents and it was very troublesome and confusing to know what I could do to help.
I ended up calling child protective services on at least one parent that I suspected of abusing and neglecting their child. In that particular case, the mother, who happened to also be a friend of mine (extremely awkward) was singling out her daughter for abuse and neglect. I called C.P.S. anonymously and told them everything I thought was going on. I later learned through my child, that a case worker showed up at their house and had a long discussion and further investigation. I am happy to say that I learned from my child, since then, whether it was directly related to my actions or not, the mother and daughter formed a stronger and healthier bond and are now doing so much better.
So, in a sense, we are all to blame when we are aware of abuse and don’t speak up.
But, having said all that, I really don’t believe that either bio. parent has any direct responsibility with Kyron’s disappearance.
I do find some of Kaine’s statements pretty odd and incendiary. He seemed particularly sensitive when it came to issues of money and spending. I also find it a little bit odd that all parties, especially TH have been through so many seemingly intense relationships and TH has moved around so many times in her relatively short life.
I don’t know of too many people in my life who have married and divorced 3 different times, have changed jobs and career paths so many times, not to mention the intensity of how she seemed to go at some of her hobbies and her friendships. I totally understand that that hardly makes you a murderer or kidnapper, but it does strike me as abnormal and that maybe that there were some emotionally immature people.
Maybe I am being naive. I don’t want to offend anyone here. If I do, then I am sorry.
This comment: “Her pregnancy surprised Kaine, who thought they were not going to have children.”
Either you choose not to, and you make darn sure of it, or you’re likely to get surprised sooner or later. Love how he implies it was her doing entirely.
And hello, please, he’s the skank who was cheating on his wife… where’s the responsibility for that he out to be claiming?
I can see how Kaine bought into TH’s way of child rearing, education and disipline early on. She went to school for just this area, and she was the ‘expert’. But as we all know, not every approach works well for all children. I think you all hit the nail on the head, with stating James removal had to do with his poor performance and TH’s reputation. Just like she wanted all the questioning about James’ departure to stem from KH being unresonable. I do think, from what we know, KH should have listened to his inner voice and fought TH on her excessive rule re Kyron. I tend to think TH put all her eggs in one basket and planned on a job at Skyline, and that did not pan out as planned. This may have contributed to her deciding to disappear Ky during the school’s watch.
I wanted to add,
cartwheel says:
August 20, 2010 at 1:10 pm
I do think whether or not there is a lesbian relationship involved interests people because it might speak to the degree at which someone might go out on a limb for another. Sexual attraction has a pull unlike no other so it might well speak to why DoDo would involve herself with TH to such a degree and somehow justify it in her very twisted little brain.
*******
I agree.
Blink-
Curious, did my IP post a). got lost b). was stupid & irrelevent or c). not something we are going to talk about. lol! TIA
c.
You got it
B
And the comments about discipline? Pretty normal for a parent who actually CARES about how their kids behave.
It’s just about impossible to change behavior when you’re unaware of it, and yet that’s how the public schools operate these days. The parent is only made aware after it’s been going on weeks or months, and/or has gotten to the point where it’s a safety issue.
That suggests that there were repeated issues with Kyron in class. Numerous other statements have made me think he might have ADHD tendencies.
A few things here – 1) to most effectively change behavior, it needs to be caught early, dealt with immediately, and be supervised constantly for continued adherence to expectations. 2) The need to know THAT DAY becomes even more important – because you can ask an ADHD child how the school day was a mere hour or two after a very severe issue happened, and they have no deceptive intent, they absolutely won’t even remember what happened until they are reminded with sufficient detail. (Takes some adaption, but once you’ve adjusting your parenting style to the way this type of child works, you’ll find it works far better for ALL children in the household. Follow-through is an absolute necessity.)
As far as this type of child is concerned, once it’s happened, it’s over, gone and done. One benefit, they don’t hold grudges, but the flip side is that, like a puppy, the behavior has to be dealt with immediately for it to have any effect whatsoever.
And as for her absolute disgust with the teacher? Been there, done that, removed my children from the school – and they’re thriving.
@ Shelley
@ Neighbor
Regarding the photo of Kyron’s class with the caption written by Terri: “Kyron’s class (Ms. Porter). Where was Kyron do you ask? Yeah, he went to the bathroom without telling anyone. *sigh*”
Does this sound like the same kid that won’t leave his bed in the morning until he’s told it’s OK to do so? Not at all.
In those pictures from Kiara’s first birthday, Kyron’s wearing a purple shirt, so I don’t think that’s him cropped off on the right in the Adidas t-shirt.
But geez, almighty….on that day it appears Kiara was toted to: Craft World, The Gym, Sushi Town (for lunch!), Kyron’s school, the eye doctor, Rite-Aid and then for a party at Safari Sam’s.
My kid would be having a melt-down!