Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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One last comment about those first birthday pics of Kiara….She might not have meant harm but as a teacher, Terri should have known better than to post a picture of other students on her facebook.
If I am not mistaken they are also posted on their parents FB’s, or at least some of them.
As a practical matter, no kids pics, that do not belong to you, should be posted anywhere, on that we agree, but she posted pics of everything in her life for years, facebook was her outlet to the outside world when raising 3 children I guess.
How the Hell she found the time, well that’s another matter.
B
starshadow says:
It’s just about impossible to change behavior when you’re unaware of it, and yet that’s how the public schools operate these days. The parent is only made aware after it’s been going on weeks or months, and/or has gotten to the point where it’s a safety issue.
And as for her absolute disgust with the teacher? Been there, done that, removed my children from the school – and they’re thriving.”
—————————————-
That’s not how all public schools operate. My students’ parents are called daily if inappropriate behavior takes place.
Also, we have not been provided specific information as to what Kyron’s teacher did or did not do that was deemed inappropriate or disgusting by Terri – only Terri saying she misunderstood her (on the day of Kyron’s disappearance) and Desiree saying TH didn’t think she should have a job. Obviously the teacher did contact TH daily regarding Kyron’s behavior (regardless of the card color) but beyond that – who knows?
I agree that there are both good and bad teachers in our public schools systems.
I can say without hesitation, however, that based upon reported actions Terri took in her role of substitute teacher (if true), she should definitely not have a job in teaching.
As always, MOO.
Kitjcat117 #24 on 8/20/10 – your interpretation of the TMH OL article was spot on. I couldn’t agree more.
Kuaitzdog #31 on 8/20/10 – I also noticed that James didn’t mention Kyron as someone he missed. Did the reporter make an error?
I’d love to hear any audio that was made by Lynne Terry to see what else we could decipher about this woman.
One of the mom’s from Skyline School mentioned to me today while I was getting my hair done she and other parents are still nervous about their kids starting school soon. She actually has a daughter that was in Kyron’s class and the mom knew Terri as far as seeing her in the classroom. It seems the parents are concerned that the abductor of Kyron’s could still out there or even Terri coming back to take another child from the school. Even though there are facts out there, parents are worried.
It makes me so sad for DeDe and Kaine right now especially. Do you think Kyron was taken away from the Portland area afterall?
48; Whoops…. I mean Desiree…not DeDe… whoa…so sorry. wow. Didn’t mean DeDe at all. Sorry….
Dede refused to take a poly? Hmmmm.
JW in his letter to OL:
“I discovered that at age 42, she never had a boyfriend or any children.”
“She did tell me repeatedly that I was going to be the last man in her life and if it didn’t work out with us, that she would never pursue another man again, and I believed her.”
I think JW is trying tell us something. No man before and no more men after. Perhaps this was simply a relationship DDS was trying on.
It makes you wonder, if KH knew little of DDS and JW knew nothing of TH, after dating DDS for 10 months, if neither wanted their “significant other” to know of or about the extent of their relationship. Was TH’s sexting to MC a diversionary tactic so that her relationship with DDS wouldn’t be realized and under scrutiny? I believe that TH will play for either team when it’s to her advantage. Maybe the realization of this fact sent someone over the edge.Feeling that they “got played”. Whether it was the initial reason for Kyron’s disappearance or the reason the plan didn’t go as planned (and then TH got played).
God Bless you sweet Kyron.
I missed you Lee, I owe you an apology, you were sandwiched between 2 private posts. To put you on the top current posts I changed the time to now.
I agree that someone may have the feeling they got “played” by TH, and could be motivation for Kyron’s disappearance.
B
@Shelly,
Did you report the information to the authorities? It’s possible the information that “may be of importance” is not related to the case, but then again there is always the possibility that it could be.
@Malty, I love dogs too
I am fairly new to this site and have a question. I posted the other day under the name Observer. Is there a way to tell if that name is already taken on this site?
O my.
It is, I just renamed you Observant, if that is ok.
B
I wanted to add to my last post, MOO.
FWIW: I DID contact LE, along with a letter, and info. (two departments)…
Dede sounds like a heartless moran for the way she treated that little dog!! I hope she was reported to the SPCA! … I say that
as I sit here with my three adorable doggies under my feet. lol
She reminds me of an obnoxious water buffalo pushing her way through a crowd..she thinks she’s The Big Cheese, when in fact she’s a pile
of…..#####
I apologize for reposting if this has already been posted here, I hadn’t seen it. I found this to be extremely telling of TH’s personality and insight into her life. She sounds like she possibly could have been very angry or a loss of control over Kyron.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
I’ve seen people here saying things like if Dede or terri are lesbians then they mention sex as being a motive. Love is a powerful motive too. I think more powerful than sex. Being gay is not just about sex. Being gay is loving and being attracted to someone of the same gender. Just like in heterosexual relationships, sex may or may not happen.
ok, so I sorta got on my soapbox with this post and no, I’m not gay.
Not that there is anything wrong with that…
ok, before we all go proposition 8, I want to put this to bed already ( ba dump bump.. pun intended)
Here is what I tell my blinkettes:
Evaluate people by their virtues and their honesty. If they have flaws that make it hard to see what you like about them, they are probably not good friend choices. Understand that people will make the same decisions about you.
DO NOT evaluate them on anything they may not be able to influence personally, like the color of their skin, or who they might choose to whisper to at the game, or sit next to in class ( we are talking tweens).
They are gleeks, so the gay subject has come up. I feel my conversations with them should stay private as I think they would prefer, but let me say this.
I overheard one of them on the phone while they were watching a program, talking to a friend-
I heard.. “Well, to tell you the truth, this is what my Mom says, unless someone is trying to feel you up, that you don’t want to, whether it’s a girl or a dude, who cares who they like? And if they like both they have a 100% chance of getting a date, we don’t. (insert loud laugh track as I am sliding down my chair in my office next to their bedroom swearing to myself to remember they hear me on the phone.)
From the other sibling bedroom.. a resounding.. “That’s what she said..”
Such is my life on the issue.
I just do not see any evidence of this child’s disappearance having to do with Kyron being “out of the way” for a love interest, regardless of what permutations of partners .. Just do not.
B
@Nancy “I can say without hesitation, however, that based upon reported actions Terri took in her role of substitute teacher (if true), she should definitely not have a job in teaching.”
——————————————————
I would have to agree. There’s a reason she didn’t get a long-term assignment/position, if indeed she ever interviewed. Then, of course, there is that little matter of the DUI w/J in the car…
kitjcat117 says: Great piece on TH. The posters on OL seem to think this paints TH in a positive light. I, however, believe it speaks to how manipulative she can be. Perhaps she was faking…
——————-
Great insight. After reading this article, it confirmed my initial instinct of who this woman actually is. Manipulative at the core. Her past behavior sets a clear foundation of how far this woman would go — and given her recent volatility in demeanor — I would sincerely question this woman’s integrity even if she wasn’t the (unspoken) focus of this investigation.
I inferred a few things from the must-read article and wanted to share a few thoughts:
– I believe one possible reason TH was never hired for a teaching gig was based solely on the fact that she left a negative impression on those already working in the school system. People talk. The OL article states “she irritated the teacher she subbed for by rearranging the classroom and throwing out some of the teacher’s materials while she was on maternity leave”.
Dude, who does that. I’m going to bet that she probably ticked off more than one person at the school if she went to that level of insanity of throwing out teaching materials while subbing for her. So disrespectful and reeks of bitterness that she didn’t have her own class and wanted to make it “her own” while she was there.
The phrase “She was really in control” was quoted frequently by several people. Very telling to me in regards to her character.
And lastly, I gleaned from the article that Kyron was in day-care once Kaine gained custody in 2004. But. It also says a few paragraphs below that TH earned her Master’s in 2003 and remained as a sub until 2006. Why wasn’t she caring for Kyron during the day? Was she working at a restaurant? I could be reading too much into the dates, though.
PS. Oh, I didn’t think it was snapoutofit, but beejay/puzzled who is sharing IPs. There, I said it. MOO.
HALT.
I mean this sincerely.
It is insulting for anyone to think I would allow multiple ip’s user names on this site.
The very reason I continue to mod my own work, is because I am so staunch about the integrity of people being who they say they are, no BS imposters, and BS agenda driven drivel.
Not what I do, and not anything I want to be associated with or I would discontinue this work in a heartbeat.
Therefore, if you or anyone else wishes to allege such an accusation, I suggest you bring your pocket ip identifier, cause I have some pretty robust “stuff” on my site, and the two posters you mentioned are without question 2 different individuals.
Respectfully, this is romper room crap, do I need to bring out my magic mirror and roll call??
B
@Newsatfive: Thanks for the very interesting and informative article on lawyer/client confidentiality. It still seems like a very slippery slope but of course if she didnt admit she had anything to do with Kyrons disappearance (and if he never asked) then Houze has nothing to tell.
JMHO but TMH lawyering up does not imply guilt. It is the smart thing to do whether guilty or innocent.
Re: KH comments about Kyrons progress at school. Two things come to mind. One is that as a teacher TMH should realize that a special needs child does not follow the same rules as a neurotypical child. Punishing them for behavior is not the solution and a masters degree should tell you as much. *IF* Kyron had some sort of learning disorder and she was pleading with Kaine to address it, and he was in denial or swept it under the rug, his response in the interview goes along with the possibility that something might be wrong with Kyrons learning and TMH may have seen it. However, if he was ADHD TMH should know that punishment is not the answer, a different learning approach more likely than not WOULD be. Thats not downing Kaine, thats simply parental denial. Obviously terri spent more time with him but her solution sucked.
If true that it was a case of daily teacher reports, why didnt terri ask for one for June 4th?
As far as the WishErt/WishArt thing, knowing that Kaine had sexual abuse of children in his family, I would not necessarily draw a firm conclusion in either direction. Some kids are ‘unscathed’ because the parent focuses on another/different child. Still I am curious about his odd appeal for Dedes sake.
What I found interesting in his letter was his reference to Dede not helping someone murder and “bury a child”. To date we do not know if Kyron was murdered and whether his body was removed by the Columbia River or burial or what. (please please forgive me as I do not mean to sound callous or uncaring. God it just sucks even saying those words together.) IMO it almost makes it sound like Dede told him what happened to Kyron and that Dede knew he was buried, but perhaps did not take part in the deed.
JMHO
Blink, your tales of your kids are hysterical.
And Lori i totally agree 100% that being gay is more about who you love than who you sleep with and why.
That said, while Dede may not be willing to off a child for TMH because she was in love with her, I can see her willing to help her conceal information about TMHs possible connection to this crime because she was in love with her.
Funny that the law protects spouses and prevents them from being forced to testify against that spouse. But in this closed minded country we live in that does not allow gays to marry, Dede could never be allowed that same protection. As a result her actions might be the same as if it were a guy in love with TMH wanting to be with her as it is about a lesbian lover helping to cover her tracks.
MHO <silent "h" for those of you who speak the french version of Moooo
Ty friend, but is the babes who are hysterical and therefore hard to yell at- mostly
In general, statutes that protect spousal privilege, do NOT extent to crimes against children, fyi.
B
Since my previous comment is still “awaiting moderation” and Blink posted comments around unnecessary focus on DDS sexual orientation following my post, I’ll take it that I need to position my thoughts differently.
My comments around the DDS & TH relationship were not focused so much on whether it was of a sexual nature but how close they were at the time of Kyron’s disappearance. We have no way of knowing how accurate JW’s account of DDS’s dating history is and it probably shouldn’t be taken at face value. I took it that DDS might simply be more trusting of women than men. Was TH close enough with TH to do anything for her? Love/infatuation (not necessarily a sexual thing) makes one very susceptible to wanting to please/support. Much more easily influenced or manipulated. It happens all the time with family members/friends of those who commit crimes.
Not to say that that it would be to a degree that DDS would harm a child but certainly in a way to want to protect (which she herself has stated) TH. Either DDS was easily duped into believing what curred was to protect/save Kyron and/or or she is looking to protect/save TH by holding her secrets. And not necessarily secrets that would reveal TH did something herself but that her actions/behavior sparked Kyron’s disappearance. I really don’t think TH had a direct hand in what ultimately happened to Kyron but was most definitely the catalyst.
My ultimate point is that I believe TH repeatedly preyed upon the affections of others (male & female alike) and that perhaps someone realized that they “got played”. Whether it was the initial reason for Kyron’s disappearance or the reason the plan didn’t go as planned (and then TH got played).
God bless you sweet Kyron.
Your up, my bad, you were in between to private posts and I missed it.
We agree on Terri being the catalyst, but I am not at all in the zipcode of her orchestrating this at this time.
B
I am always “in moderation”….shall I not post here, Blink? No prob.
YOU HAVE NOTHING PENDING, YOU NEED TO SET YOUR RSS OR REVIEW POSTS.
B
@Observant…actually no, I did not report it. I did however “FLAG” the comment on the FB page and shortly afterwards the post vanished. I am not a member of that page so I am not sure what happens after a post is flagged. But I was hoping somehow that the THSP is being carefully monitored/investigated. Do you think I should report what I saw anyway?
Thanks Observant!
@beejay says: August 20, 2010 at 5:32 pm
“I’m smiling and nodding. Yep! Do they sound like your friends and relatives?! (Oh, sorry if they do. How insensitive of me.) ‘Birds of a feather’ comes to mind.”
B*tchy, party of one, your table is ready!
All kidding aside, I don’t take offense, considering that its your relatives we’re talking about here, beejay. Or was that just a slip on your part, when you implied this in one of your earlier posts?
@mosaic says: August 20, 2010 at 7:00 pm
“@ Shelley @ Neighbor Regarding the photo of Kyron’s class with the caption written by Terri: ‘Kyron’s class (Ms. Porter). Where was Kyron do you ask? Yeah, he went to the bathroom without telling anyone. *sigh*’ Does this sound like the same kid that won’t leave his bed in the morning until he’s told it’s OK to do so? Not at all.”
I remember the comment about Kyron not leaving his bed until “he’s told it’s OK to do so” — who said it? Who made the rule? Why would it need to “be ok” to get out of bed? There’s something unforgivingly rigid in the Horman household, and it may be that both Kaine and Terri are to blame for this.
Schools have rules, but not to the degree that have been ascribed to the Horman household. Kyron probably felt like he was free every time he set foot inside the school doors.
Little kids are not really great about remembering to go to the bathroom between classes. Kyron may have done what many a little boy has done before him and ran for the bathroom. It’s not like he was interrupting a lesson plan. Or maybe he did it to push Terri’s buttons.
Kyron is a little kid, and part of what makes little kids great is that they are not always doing exactly the right thing at exactly the right moment, which is the antithesis of Terri.
The classroom teacher’s color-coding system sounds a bit rigid. I am not familiar with the modern method of elementary school discipline, but it just sounds a little lockstep to me. Terri is attracted to control, and she may have felt threatened by the teacher asserting control, or maybe she was empowered by the additional information and used the opportunity to rage on Kyron.
I keep coming back to the fact that the one person who was clearly devastated at the first press conference was Desiree. Tony looked like he was watching for clues from Terri and Kaine, and IMHO, he knew that something just wasn’t right. The only home that was truly good for Kyron was in Medford, and that’s where he need to go when he finally returns home.
Blink, you are very funny today.
Thank You.
I am here all week, try the veal.
B
I recall in a very early interview Kaine mentioning they were having some problems with Kyron’s behavior in school. He was not talking about it like it was a real problem, but in the context that it concerned him because they were working on Kyron obeying adults outside of the household. He was saying it like he was afraid that perhaps they were stressing to Kyron that he must do as told by adults and this could have made him especially vulnerable to a pedophile or some other type of freak.
I actually know a woman who obsesses on her child’s every move in school and I feel for the child and the teacher. The child is in second grade and is having real difficulty with the academics. This is a very bright child who I sat and read with and I saw no problems at all. I truly believe the constant harassment to be perfect has caused emotional trauma so great the child literally locks up when questioned by a teacher or her mother. (This child was forced to do homework on the 4th of July to earn getting to see fireworks)
Sometimes, I wonder if Kaine really had any clue at all what went on in his own home. I wonder how dead on his statements can be if he was uninvolved and ill informed about things around the house.
Playing a bit of devil’s advocate here-
If you cannot trust your spouse with a masters in early childhood education and specialization in special needs children in conjunction with the fact that you have decided to entrust her with your children-
I just feel like the man was busting his hump on the other side of the mill, ya know?
B
at this email?
B
@all….I’ll be away for awhile, I’m givin’ Beejay my cow bell until I get back.
When all is said and done, rumor, speculation, all the “wth’s” have been said…the end result is the same…still no Kyron. God be with him wherever he is.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
@zinnia: I believe it is common (maybe more than we want to admit) that in a situation where one partner is working and the other is not (and perhaps not even making the effort to work) that it would feel to Kaine like it was “his money”. If they decided as a couple not to put Kiara in daycare and TMH not work, than he should understand that it is their money. If he encouraged her to get back to work and she didn’t want to, it my have felt to him more like she wasnt willing to contribute and it was his money. And what of her supposed online business? Was that “her money” or “His money”? My guess is she saw it as hers, and saw his earnings as hers also without being willing to chip hers into the mix. JMHO
As far as spousal privelege, I thought that even in the cases such as these, a spouse would not/could not be expected to testify against their spouse. If this were truly a free country (putting aside the fact that the childs rights should come first, but lets assume its a different type of criminal case), then *if two women or two men who were in love and wanted to be married and would not be legally recognized as such did not want to incriminate their partner, they would not have the same legal rights as the heterosexual couple who is legally allowed to marry would be afforded.
I did not realize that spousal privelege did not apply in cases involving children. (its just a little injustice and unfairness that peeves me on a personal level that gays are not afforded the same rights as “straight” people.)
As far as IPs, just an FYI, I have two Ips because I post at work too.
@Shelly, I was looking for the post about someone showing up on FB that was removed and I couldnt recall who said what. Then I remember the screen name you or someone else mentioned was something L L. There is a linda lois listed as family to either a jason wishert or wishart (memory fails) and I thought I recalled your post saying it was something similar. Help me out here?
I was wondering if anyone else noticed the discrepancy in JW’s letter? Note below:
“I met DeDe Spicher in late September of 2008 at the Rock Creek Campus of PCC in
chemistry 100 lecture and lab class taught by Dr. Harry Davis.”
Then,
“I had returned to school in the spring of 2007 at
the University of Phoenix in Tigard for Criminal Justice and had transferred to PCC for a
health then a chemistry class and had achieved a 4.0 GPA the entire time. I realized after
the first two weeks of class that I may lose my GPA with this chemistry class and
hooked-up with DeDe as a study partner.”
He may have just had poor sentence structure, or he screwed up in relaying his facts as to when he met DDS.
What do you all think?
@ Rich M….the person’s name was Liewe Lulu – I have no clue who he or she is as their profile is set to private. I will try to copy and paste this profile. The only time I had seen this person post on the THSP page was this morning and he/she requested one of the admns. email her because she may have something to tell them of importance. I flagged the post. Later when I returned, the post was gone.
@Rich – sorry, here is the profile (I forgot it above!!)
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000491071876&ref=search
(you must be logged in to see it)
Yes
Is it odd that everyone says that kyron is stashed somewhere? “Stashed” I have never heard that before.
Not missing, taken, lost, abducted or kidnapped. Very specifically “stashed” what am I missing?
My interpretation of that is that perhaps the sentiment is that now the heat is on, if this was ransom or trafficking, one would not want him to be located for fear of prosecution.
You will not find a member of LE, of any agency, that will state anything other than “we have no evidence to indicate he is not alive.”
B
Blink, I hear ya loud and clear and agree 100%. But…..and you knew this was coming……running a household, caring for three kids, studying, etc. is not a piece of cake either and I feel now and always have both parents need to be aware of what is going on in their childrens’ lives.
I am in the process of transcribing and copying/pasting everything Kaine has said in public into one document. It is quite eye opening in some respects. All the things he doesn’t know about or says he doesn’t know about are not just inconsequential little daily errands and runny noses.
This is not an exercise to beat up Kaine. I believe he has to know or should know Terri better than anyone. I am attempting to get an accurate profile/understanding of her through her husband’s eyes.
We don’t disagree- look forward to seeing what you come up with.
B
Eloise.
He went back to college in spring 2007. Then transfered to another school where he met DeDe in 2008.
That’s how it reads to me. He gives a LOT of detail to read through.
@toasty1
sometimes I read something that really hits me funny LOL
what you said about a water buffalo was really funny to me
thanks for the laugh!!
Newsatfive – Thank you for the ethics article which I read tonight. I find ethics in any field (medicine, robotics, law, etc.) fascinating. Even more fascinating is trying to understand what causes some people to live by their ethics even at great cost and others to “jump ship”.
Counselors also have similar ethics to follow and generally those rules work very well to protect a child. Only one time did I really wish I could have done something other than what I had to do. A high school student of mine was raped by a stranger on her way to school. She struggled on to school and I knew the details of what happened. In the next few days, another student came to me and told me about an attempted rape that sounded like exactly the same approach. It is the only time in my life that I could feel the hair on the back of my neck actually stand up because I knew it was the same man. (I thought that hair thing was just an expression until then.) In spite of my pleading, she would not report it but allowed me to speak off the record with police, and she refused to tell her parents. (I was able to make sure she told an older brother who helped her to stay safe.) That same man went on to rape and kill a girl of 12 or 13 on her way to school, and was eventually caught because another girl later reported a similar attempt. I always wondered in hindsight if a life could have been saved if she had officially made a report, but she was not in imminent danger and I had no way to force her to report it.
People say Oregon has the toughest ethics standards for attorneys in the US. Last year I went through probably 8 years of the Oregon Bar’s hearings for a personal reason and wrote a letter concerning a current case and what I believed to be unfair in how they handled it, but the person would not argue her case out of concern for a child (because the cases are published), and settled without a hearing. I believe professional groups that decide on ethics rules sometimes do not get the results they say they strive for.
I cannot remember now who said this, but early in this case when TH hired Houze, the ethics of what he could or couldn’t say if he were to find out where Kyron is came up in a discussion. The person said Houze would not be able to tell that information, but would likely “leak it somehow” so LE could follow up. The impression I had was that this is what criminal attorneys do. I don’t believe it – and after reading your article, I have even less reason to believe he would leak any information.
And Blink you are really funny also
this page is good Friday nite fun
Thanks We need some fun:)
Blink, no need for an apology! I’m the one who jumped to conclusions as to why my comments weren’t posted. I don’t know how you keep up with this site and everything else you do!
__________________________________________________
I too found the OL article about TH fascinating. I think that when TH felt she was succeeding as a person/parent things were good. When things got challenging she gave up (marriages, bodybuilding, and on and on…). She wasn’t succeeding with James so she blamed others and ultimately made him someone else’s responsibility-and now he is flourishing. God Bless James. When her children behaved I’m sure she was a loving and even fun parent. When they were challenging I think she was impatient and dismissive. I firmly believe that all of her children worked very hard for her attention and approval. I really do see this Kyron’s eyes in all of the photos TH took and posted on FB. To me they just scream “love me!”
That said, I don’t know that these things point to TH being responsible for Kyron’s current whereabouts. I believe that TH got herself way in over her head in this situation and had no idea that this would be the outcome. I think she is extremely immature, and does exhibit narcissistic behaviors (as many have noted here) and doesn’t really see the consequence of her actions (from putting someone’s books out in the rain to endangering a child and all of the bizarre behavior thereafter). I think Kyron was collateral damage.
What I struggle with is TH’s need for self-preservation over that of all the (her!) children involved- with Kyron the most at risk of all- in not saying anything to move this situation toward a resolution –whatever that may be at this point. I don’t think TH she knows where Kyron is now but definitely could have and still provide many more pieces of the puzzle. Does she think it’s all too late now for Kyron so why further implicate herself? Again, not seeing the consequences of her actions. Has she somehow blocked it out all out and just can’t see her responsibility in all of this? It’s been 3 months!!! It’s making me sick. Praying for something to break in this case…
God bless you and keep you close sweet Kyron.
Substitute teachers, of which Terri was one –
Here’s how it works, around the Portland area at least. Being a sub is a tough job and of course has its financial ups and downs. Many subs sign up in several districts at the same time so they will have more regular work. Districts can be desperate at times (such as flu season) and some schools end up with other teachers or administrators needing to help out unexpectedly.
Because subs are not that easy to get and retain, districts try to hang on to them. Teachers will try to call for particular subs they believe work well with their students, and a particular school has a right to decline to use a particular sub ever again – but there’s no list of “non-preferred subs” so other schools would not know that. If there are 30 elementary schools, you could become “unpopular” at 10 schools and still be acceptable to others.
One of the best ways to get a job with a school district when jobs are limited is to put in time as a sub and get to know people who will remember you and give you good references from within the district. Obviously, it is also the worst way to find a job if people form doubts about your ability to handle the job or to work well with school staff.
From what we are hearing now, it’s not difficult to see why Terri didn’t get a regular teaching job – if she ever applied. She seems to have gotten some skills, but then her behavior would be such that she may as well have worn a red flag on top of her head.
Blink, Observant is fine with me.
@Shelly,
I’m not certain exactly what you saw posted but my opinion is if you believe it could be relevant to the case I would.
Are the friends profiles private too?
@ Phyl says:
“I can’t get the image of the policeman crying out of my head. To me that was really significant.”
During the first presser three observations stood out for me, ranked in importance (significance):
1. Sheriff Dan Staton choking and seemingly crying (and a few times on another occasions) – compare that with his regular demeanor, it was unusual to say at least.
2. odd behavior of Kaine Horman (i know, i know that people do not want to hear this; however, it struck me as odd and while i can put my finger on the details, i rather not)
3. behavior of Terri – looking around/gazing like being on major antidepr/antianxiety meds.; looking up and into Desiree’s face – like a curious child; and lastly, i did see total unbelief and shock in Terri’s face = this was expected, but a times she was somewhere else.
Desiree’s reaction and very notably, Tony Young’s empathy were timely and appropriate – my respect for TY.
Or not so imminent. http://www.katu.com/news/local/101210534.html
Google the name William Kent Wishart (the one with the record). Look at some of the articles that kick up about him. I did, and one thing jumped off the the page: ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement).
That’s the same agency that turned up on the list of agencies involved in Kyron’s disappearance.
ICE is different from INS. ICE handles cyber crimes and child exploitation, among other things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_%26_Customs_Enforcement
If ICE is involved — and it is — then LE believes something unholy happened to Kyron. I am physically ill at the thought.
@ newsatfive says:
August 20, 2010 at 10:38 pm
@beejay says: August 20, 2010 at 5:32 pm
“I’m smiling and nodding. Yep! Do they sound like your friends and relatives?! (Oh, sorry if they do. How insensitive of me.) ‘Birds of a feather’ comes to mind.”
B*tchy, party of one, your table is ready!
__________________________
I’m so sorry. I was trying to be funny. I would’ve posted that to anyone in response to your observation.
I’ll keep my sense of humor in check. It is more than a bit bent.
(Which you’ll note if you go to the potshots website whose link I posted around the same time. I was in Fri aftn mode.)
Sorry again. It was not meant to be personal. I admire the content of your posts and regret offending you.
@cbickel: Got your cowbell; will miss you in the pasture. My time here will be limited now, too. Real life calls and my vacation is over come Monday.
Lots of folks here seem to have their own cowbells. They seem to be MOOOOOing just fine!
While lawyers must protect information about clients’ past crimes, they may reveal information about future client crimes.
Oregon RPC 1.6(b) allows — but does not require — lawyers to reveal information relating to the representation of a client to the extent that lawyers reasonably believe is necessary to prevent a client from committing a crime or to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm.
Also, RPC 3.3(b) requires lawyers to take reasonable remedial measures when they know that a person intends to engage, is engaging or has engaged in criminal or fraudulent conduct related to an adjudicative proceeding.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Skyline-prepares-for-start-of-school-year-without-Kyron-101074399.html
I wonder if the school has installed surveillance cameras?
It doesn’t take a Masters Degree in Education to figure out that the quickest way to break a kid down is to expect them to be perfect. Children make mistakes. We all make mistakes! Great teachers know that mistakes are just opportunities to help the child realize what went wrong. I’m no teacher, but I’m what they call a kid magnet. I guess because I’m really still a big kid inside. And I’ve noticed kids thrive when paid attention to and praised for what they do right. Usually the so called “bratty ones” are just craving someone to pay attention to them. I read about TH’s strict parenting/teaching regime and it makes me cringe. It’s amazing to me how Kyron still had the light, that sparkle, shining in his eyes.
And as for TH moving or discarding other people’s stuff. In my book, that is just wrong. I can’t even bring myself to throw out my husband’s wholey underwear and socks that he loves so much, let alone those horrid 1980′s Miami Dolphin parachute pants. Who the hell does she thinks she is to throw away someone else’s things?
And don’t get me started on DeDe. I haven’t read about what she did to that poor little Dachsund doggie. I’m afraid to. How could anyone just lock a little dog in a closet, let alone one that is bleeding (that’s all I read) and I’m horrified. These sound like really sick people to me.
beejay says:
August 18, 2010 at 10:51 pm
OOPS! Time for another complication.
“PORTLAND, Ore. – Investigators have learned they have reason to believe it was not DeDe Spicher, the friend of Kyron Horman’s stepmother Terri Moulton Horman, who was seen in a truck the morning Kyron disappeared, according to sources.
——————————————
Doesn’t complicate things for me. Since the revelation about the apparent 2nd person in the truck, I’ve never thought it was DeDe; the timeline wouldn’t work, if she was accounted for until 10am at her job site. I do believe that Terri and Person #2 contacted DeDe for help with whatever happened to Kyron, and that’s why she went missing from work at around the time that Terri’s alibi hits a roadblock (10am-ish).
I tend to think that DeDe came in to help dispose (ugh) of Kyron and to help with Terri’s alibi of being at the gym afterwards; whether she posed as Terri at the gym, or whether she handled things so that Terri could go make an appearance, I don’t know. But that’s still my belief.
I’ve tended to believe however, that the 2nd person in the truck was likely a woman, as again: 1. I can’t picture Terri leaving Kiara with Anselmo or Rudy; 2. I can’t see Kyron going to the truck to meet Terri and getting in if Anselmo or Rudy was Person #2. I think a shy boy like him would have to know the person or find them non-threatening, so it would likely be a fairly good friend of Terri’s, or at least a woman. Rudy was acquainted with Kyron, but I do not think he would know him well enough; and as far as I know, he didn’t know Anselmo at all. I wonder if perhaps the person in the truck is the other friend who bought a throw-away phone that day, the woman who’s name we are not privy to. Perhaps she and Terri attempted to abduct Kyron only to stage a kidnapping/ransom and ended up chloroforming or otherwise drugging him to knock him out and ending up killing him instead. Terri and Person 2 freak, DeDe becomes a stable, more clear-thinking person to solve the ‘problem’ because she wasn’t involved in the actual process of harming Kyron, so she isn’t too emotional to think straight.
Just a theory.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lee says:
August 19, 2010 at 12:38 am
However, I did found one DDS quote very interesting:
“…And again, whoever has taken Kyron is still out there and could be after her, too…”
The concern about the public threats I get, but why would “whoever has taken Kyron” be after TH? I don’t know that the logical thoughts of a parent (bio or step) of a missing child, or for that matter their friends/relatives (i.e. DDS), would be that they could be “next”. Could there be a reason DDS/TH think “whoever has taken Kyron” would be a threat to TH? Hmmm…
————————————–
I don’t believe either Terri or DeDe thinks ‘whoever took Kyron’ poses a threat to Terri. I think this is what they want people to believe, in order to facilitate the lie that Terri is an innocent ‘victim’ and had nothing to do with Kyron’s disappearance.
I believe that most of us believe — despite lack of details — that Terri in fact did facilitate Kyron’s disappearance — whether the belief is that it was accidental, malicious or otherwise. In other words, I think most can agree that if Terri did not commit the actions herself (although I do), that she at least knows who did. Thus these protestations about Terri being some innocent angel fall flat; but it’s hardly a surprise to me that DeDe and company want to throw suspicion off Terri; especially due to her/their own involvement.
Blink says: “We agree on Terri being the catalyst, but I am not at all in the zipcode of her orchestrating this at this time.”
———————————-
Come to think of it, Kain and Desiree have never really come out and accused Terri of harming Kyron herself – have just said they think she is involved, knows more than she’s saying, etc.
I still can’t for the life of me figure out why Terri is not saying what she knows (who may be involved and why) if she did not plan the disappearance of Kyron herself. What information does she have that is worth losing contact with her daughter, having to move out of her home, having to remain secluded and silent, etc.?
I admit I am beyond puzzled by this.
#
Phyl says:
August 21, 2010 at 10:27 am
It doesn’t take a Masters Degree in Education to figure out that the quickest way to break a kid down is to expect them to be perfect. Children make mistakes. We all make mistakes! Great teachers know that mistakes are just opportunities to help the child realize what went wrong. I’m no teacher, but I’m what they call a kid magnet. I guess because I’m really still a big kid inside. And I’ve noticed kids thrive when paid attention to and praised for what they do right. Usually the so called “bratty ones” are just craving someone to pay attention to them. I read about TH’s strict parenting/teaching regime and it makes me cringe. It’s amazing to me how Kyron still had the light, that sparkle, shining in his eyes.
Yep! Bad attention is better than no attention at all!
If any of you guys have handy….I am not asking anyone to research for me, I am just having a hard time finding something this AM. Not done w/ coffee load.
But, do we have the exact address of the property DD was at, and who owned it? Also, which news agency had the photos or story about the 3 home searches done earlier in Tulatin?
I thought I would comment on where my mind is in relation to TH’s involvement in Ky’s disappearance. I can’t let her go from being involved or knowledgable that something was going to take place. This is b/c she ‘appears’ to have planted many seeds in preparation of this horrible thing. If she was only being duped by others, I believe you would have seen much more resistence in her activities. I could concede to her not being aware to the full extent of the crime, but that is about it at this point. About, Blink’s friend DD, she is one of two things for me, very devious and manipulative or dying to have friends,having no self esteem whatsoever she allowed herself to do whatever despite the awful consequenses. Not really good either way. anyway, TH allowed Ky to be set up for the taking, if not done by herself, and that alone makes her culpable in my mind.