Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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It is so hard for me to reconcile the TH as a mother that I see in all the pictures with the one that we see now. Despite all that we’ve learned about her, I can’t see her being the one to physically harm Kyron. I think about Scott Peterson, as in “why not just get a divorce you SOB, but he was not a child loving, educated teacher and parent. A cat of a different color there. I absolutely believe she is involved and is the reason this happened. I don’t know what she’s told Houze, what LE knows, etc., but for now I’m not convinced that she knows where Kyron is at this time, maybe not for a long time. Which could explain a lot. All MOO.
Okay, on behalf of Kaine:
1. He’s an engineer, and they think about things in a certain way, which is what makes them a good engineer. This is not an insult to engineers, more of a compliment if you will.
2. My husband is a really sweet guy that loves his family. He is the sole breadwinner in our house and has been for quite some time. We have an autistic child and I’ve devoted the past 6 years to full time work on the autism issues. (BTW, no way is Kyron autistic, maybe ADD, either way I think TH and others would have caught that early on like I did). My hubby has no idea what our days are like or what we do except for what I tell him. He is hyper-focused on work and Fantasy Football, head in the clouds a lot. But he’s a good Dad and loves us to bits. He trusts me, and Kaine trusted Terry. Good God, how could he have known what was to come?!
3. I think of what Kaine must be going through and put myself in his shoes for 2 minutes. I encourage anyone to do the same. How must he be feeling? He was sleeping with the Devil, you know? The guilt must be horrendous.
I can’t lay any blame at his feet, this could have happened to anyone.
All MOO.
Last night’s local news KPTV reported that Kaine spent the afternoon meeting with LE. He also gave a statement to the media afterward that I wish to share. This is copied from KPTV.com:
Also on Friday, Kaine Horman said he believes his estranged wife is still the primary focus in the criminal investigation into the boy’s disappearance.
“Unless law enforcement comes to me and says all they’ve been telling me is wrong my opinion will not change,” Horman said. “I’m a data person and the data gives me no reason to believe otherwise.”
That speaks volumes to me. Also on the same news a pot bust up here directly tied to a Mexican drug cartel. Has me rethinking a few things, like how very dangerous some of TH’s acquaintances may have been. Again, MOO.
39.Phyl says:
August 21, 2010 at 10:27 am
It doesn’t take a Masters Degree in Education to figure out that the quickest way to break a kid down is to expect them to be perfect.
*********************************************************
Totally agree with you, Phyl. Expecting perfection from a child can easily demoralize the child, especially when the parent is rigid, overly controlling, and withholding. In addition, stress and tension in the home can cause an otherwise mentally healthy child to to act out in school. In my line of work, I have seen some children referred for ADHD assessments who, on closer examination, are found to be acting out in school as a result of the drama that is playing out every day in their homes. Given the home environment described in the article, it does not suprise me at all that Kyron may have been having some recent behavioral issues at school.
IMHO, moving that roommate’s books and shelves out of doors is a very telling “snapshot” of TH’s character. This is a person who takes liberties with other people’s cherished personal property and thinks nothing of it when it is destroyed. Hmmm….sounds a bit like what *may* happened in this case, doesn’t it?
Has it been revealed exactly what kind of business TH had online?
@Mockingbirdsings:
I worked with Portland lawyers for almost 20 years and know a few who just MIGHT leak to LE if they suspected “potential harm” or “imminent harm” to a child by their client or known to their client.
taken from: Statement Analysis referring to Wishert Wishart, Jason
Anonymous:
I think he’s defensive about being a child advocate because his father was arrested in a child pornography sting.
So now ask the question of why a 20-something young man whose father had a fondness for child pornography would volunteer “unpaid” to work with vulnerable children. Not forgetting how this man feels about “unpaid” labor, as we read in his letter.
I think it could go either way- he’s genuinely trying to save children from what his father did, or he’s one messed up individual who should be examined a lot more closely by those who allow him to volunteer.
Friday, 20 August, 2010
I wrote to Anonymous and asked if he would provide me the links to his statement.
This was his response:
Anonymous said…
http://www.justice.gov/usao/or/PressReleases/2009/20090921_Wishart.html
Gives info about his father.
You can trace JW’s name spelling change in several different ways – it’s especially compelling when you look at different links between him & his father (friends of the family, etc) as well as the two alternate name spellings for “two people” who were born on the same day in the same town to the same parents.
Friday, 20 August, 2010
Constant reader, rare poster. I don’t understand anyone who thinks Terri might be innocent and if not innocent, not fully involved from the get-go. Never forget she is not fighting to see her daughter.
Even if it is only her extracurricular activities, sexual or otherwise, that caused Kyron’s disappearance, it takes a special kind of hard heart to not fess up so people you care about can find peace and you could see your own daughter again.
Blink, I wish you could elaborate on your feeling. You think she is the catalyst but not the orchestrator? If that is the case, why wouldn’t she cooperate more fully? Like “Sorry, I did xy and z, but never thought Kyron would get hurt?” Even if it was a failed murder plot, wouldn’t she have a better chance just confessing to that and helping find Kyron, wouldn’t things be more lenient for her that way?
She watches enough crime shows, me too. Everyone knows trying to kill your husband is no biggie to the other inmates, but child-killer, she would go down. She could save herself big time if she helped find the little guy no matter what her role.
Conversely, why is she calling LE when the landscaper shows up if she already knew she was a suspect?
Because she wanted to be a suspect in a MFH plot AND in the disappearance of her 7 year old son?
This is simply not that simple, if I may say-
B
As far as TH and DD’s possible sexual orientation is concerned. I don’t have a problem either way and I certainly don’t think if they were/are lesbians that it had anything to do with K’s disappearance.
I was blindsided with a revelation from my daughter a few years ago. She was married with a small child at the time and told me one day that not only was she getting a divorce but, she was going to be moving in with another woman.
Now, I know I can be slow…but, I finally figured out what she meant. She couldn’t come right out and tell me – rather, she wasn’t comfortable with coming right out and telling me.
I was brought up in a “cowboy type” atmosphere. We were taught man and woman = marriage period. I had strong opinions blasted into my head and I am certain I must have conveyed these to all my kids at one time or another.
Since my “awakening” I have learned a lot. I have discovered that I was “afraid” to understand how two people of the same sex could have feelings for one another. I am slowly travelling down a whole new road to humility and understanding.
I don’t want you to think that by saying this I am in any way defending TH and DD if they had anything to do with Little K’s disappearance.
I am only trying to say I understand if in fact they are of this persuasion.
Phyl says:
August 19, 2010 at 6:06 pm
@RichM
“since JW alludes to her not having had any other boyfriends previously?”
I found that to be the strangest statement of all!!!
Call me mancrazy, but to wait until she’s in her 40′s to start dating? Dating either Men or Women, just dating someone? Is that just not bizarre? And then he talks about how intelligent she is, but her last position was a receptionist? These sound like major self-esteem issues to me and that would explain the smug face. A lot of people who have self esteem issues can come across as smug and self-righteous.
————————
Well, just because she didn’t have any BOYfriends prior to recently, doesn’t mean she didn’t date. Perhaps she had girlfriends, or is bisexual? I’m not sure it really means anything, but, perhaps DeDe had some unsuccessful girlfriend relationships; or perhaps there were family issues where she felt she needed to hide her orientation; or perhaps she just figured she would experiment a little, being still single at 40 or whatnot? It’s possible, I think, that DeDe just maybe likes women more than men, and it’s possible that after her breakup with Jason, she was vulnerable or flattered by attention from Terri; which would perhaps explain her covering for Terri and defending her.
Granted, I could be way off, and I’m not meaning to imply anything about her sexuality necessarily. Just saying that perhaps she has had relationships up to this point; decided to try something new, failed, and was taken in by the thought of a relationship with Terri? It’s really hard to say, but sometimes people do really awful things or defend really awful things because they love someone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shelbar says:
August 19, 2010 at 6:23 pm
Then I thought of “Fl girl” and “Jackie Bauer” and wondered where they are. I always enjoyed reading their post but haven’t seen them lately. The point is, I look forward to all the posters and their comments and if I don’t see them posting, I miss them. BTW, I love the long posts but with spaces in between ideas …. makes it easier to read.
———————————–
Heya Shel
I haven’t been able to check out the site in a few days, due to the fact that I’m planning a move out of state and just been caught up in checking out places for rent and jobs and whatnot. I won’t be in Florida much longer, but I’ll likely hold onto this handle for identification purposes.
I’m glad you like the long posts, as I sometimes wonder if I just tend to ramble at times!
You know how it is when sometimes you just get a ton of thoughts in your head. I appreciate the insights of all you guys here, because it does give me perspectives that I might not have considered; and even the theories I don’t agree with necessarily, are a plus. I think we have such a mystery here (even though I’m fairly convinced of the “who”), i feel like we can never have too many voices.
I’ll be around sparingly for the next few days as I’ll be traveling and probably not have a chance to check-in… but I always come here hoping for some new news; good news ideally.
Lee says:
August 21, 2010 at 1:57 am
Thank you for putting it so eloquently. I agree with you 100%.
Also, newsatfive, thanks for the info. on client/attorney privilege. Seems to be a gray area depending upon the circumstances.
beejay, you are the bomb! Keep it coming.
Eloise, the farm address is 13000 Germantown Road, it’s on google earth with a couple of photos you can look at. For local news agency info. you can check KGW8, KOIN, KATU, KPTV and Oregonlive, all .coms.
Thank you Idahogirl, I kept seeing things without direct address or story, I am more awake now. lol!
Westwind Farm Studio – Maryellen Hockensmith, 13000 Old Germantown Rd.
@kuaitzudog said: “I wonder if the school has installed surveillance cameras?”
I have no idea where they are waiting for. They had several offers in June. Unbelievable, but NO!
Certainly, TH is a pariah in most areas of the State of Oregon by now. She was once an independent person. Granted she didn’t make her own money, but KH did all right and supported her and the family well. Until this case gets solved, and she is cleared of any suspicion, I don’t see how she can become gainfully employed in order to be able to leave her parents home and lead her own life. Her parents must be supporting her now. How can she even venture out of the house? Her lifestyle now must be getting old and quick! No semblance of her old life. She is not even receiving child support for James anymore. When KH gets formal custody of Kiara, she will have to pay child support and retroactive child support starting from when KH was granted custody. I just don’t see any kind of life for her anymore. Who will hire her? Her life is over as she knows it. She made the choices. She let the vampire in. She would be better off in prison. At least when and if she gets out, society may be more forgiving after she’s paid for her crime. I believe she is culpable of Kyron’s disappearance because of her very bad choices.
@Wordgirl,
Thank you for helping me out with theory! I thought of you yesterday when I walked into a DollarTree store and saw a small canvas bag with the words “book bag” written on it. It was clearly not a backpack. lol. Though I guess a canvas bag could be whatever you imagined it could be, the words clearly designated it for books. I never saw that before! I imagine Mark Twain would have loved reading your posts too. He is quoted as saying, “The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug.” Very true!
——————-
All,
Not to get too metaphysical here (way beyond my field of expertise) but I know that the two worst emotions for me are jealousy and hate. I can imagine that if anything could ever lead me to commit murder it would be from entertaining thoughts that give energy to those two feelings and emotions. I think all humans are capable of murder even though we may not like to think WE are, but I don’t want to take any chances, so I am very careful about what thoughts I choose to focus on. And when I am angry and cannot resolve the issue myself in a constructive way, I seek help from an outside source. I truly believe that if there is an EVIL entity out there then the way it enters your soul is via thoughts and emotions of hate and jealousy.
@Malty
I am also a dog lover. I have three sweet pugs, two of which had bad lives until I adopted them in 2003. I somehow missed what DeDe did regarding a little dog, although I got a glimpse of it by reading through BOB comments. Could you or someone give me a link? I’ve Googled and Googled. Cannot find anything but references that lead nowhere…
Thanks.
The way you described your feelings about it brought ears to my eyes.
BOB should have been BOC
Here’s a link to a bizarro website associated w/ 13000 Germantown Rd.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Da6LF64WAEJ:www.yogacowgirls.com/wp/%3Fp%3D299+13000+Germantown+RD+OR+reverse+lookup&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I have long believed that Kyron was taken out of the country. My reasons for this belief are that 1) I can’t imagine anyone in this country hanging on to such a high profile child for such a long time at their own risk and expense and, 2)the abduction was set up to have a long, seven hour lead time. That would not have been necessary if he was simply killed and disposed of but would have been necessary if he was being transported out of the country…particularly if they were taking him down south to Mexico. I focused on Mexico because, unlike Canada, very few Mexican citizens speak English or watch American news so they would be unlikely to know who Kyron was. Also Kyron himself would be unable to communicate with the locals as he only speaks English. If those were his glasses that were left in the Horman mailbox, he could be wearing dark brown contact lenses now.
Here’s the one thing that troubled me…how did they get him across since passports are now required and it is harder to get one for a minor child? Both parents must accompany him to the passport office with his birth certificate and their own identification.
I assumed that perhaps Rudy Sanchez or one of his associates, having knowlege of how to go back and forth across the border illegally, would have smuggled Kyron out.
Then I read yesterday’s profile on Terri Horman and saw that the family had taken a trip to Israel. Bingo…Kyron has a passport!
Flying down would leave a paper trail of tickets, etc. but I believe that driving or boating across would simply require one to present a passport at customs without an actual record being made of every passport shown. Does anybody know if there is a way to track who has crossed the border by car or boat?
We agree on Terri being the catalyst, but I am not at all in the zipcode of her orchestrating this at this time.
B
I had such a difficult time switching over to the Terri planned it club, it will be a breeze for me to go back.
The article in KATU this AM letting us know this could take years or never be solved made me wonder at two possible reasons: 1. LE really does not have the evidence to make any arrests ever and is depending on some miracle clue coming in or 2. KATU is having too much trouble coming up with juicy stuff so is gradually easing the public off of the story. (NOTE: They are sure able to avoid any LS info without any problems which leads me to believe he is definitely THE KEY).
I think its apparent that no one saw Kyron leave the school with Terri. No one saw Kyron leave. Whoever and if there was a person in the vicinity of the truck at the school, DeDe was not that person. No one saw Kaine’s truck in the vicinity of DeDe’s gardening job on June 4th. Terri was at both Freddy’s when she said she was. No one saw another person or child in the truck. If Terri took Kyron with her when she left the school, then he was either handed off quickly, or was in the truck. These assumptions are based on the information or lack of which has been shared with us.
Now, I realize that LE does not have to share the actual information they received from tips resulting from their last endeavor to jog people’s memories, but I think the source that KATU depends on would have offered up something,…unless, of course, they want Terri and DeDe to think they have nothing, which would take us in a total different direction.
Maybe Terri left the second Freddy’s and drove home. Outside of her gate sat Rudy/Anselmo/some other kidnapper known to her with a dead Kyron and threatened her that Kitty would be next, then James, then her if she didn’t…..???? She then drove around in a panic with her cell pinging away. Where and how does DeDe come in? If DeDe left her cell in her car, then Terri could not have called her unless they already had trac phones or a special super secret whistle or bird call. I’ve driven around the area and I think it would be difficult to get someone’s attention from the road and not get everyone’s attention.
However, if Terri found out Kyron had been harmed after she left Freddy’s and drove around freaking out, then what in the hell would lead her to go to the gym? Her next stop just does not fit in unless she was so scared she wanted to take Kitty to a public place.
Maybe the driving around was the result of a pre-planned meeting with her lover/killer/friend who told her they had done something to Kyron. Maybe she drove around frantically trying to check out what she had been told, but did not hear from the school and did not find Kyron at the places she thought he may be so thought it was another(?) empty threat. Maybe she was afraid to go home, so went to a public place, the gym, until she felt the coast was clear.
The email or text Terri sent(don’t remember for certain right now) Kaine after he had moved out with Kitty saying she wanted him to contact her because she needed to know Kitty was safe (why would Kitty not be safe with her father) and her not fighting at all to get any custodial rights in the divorce both make me wonder if she is really concerned for Kitty’s safety. Maybe her perpetual silence is not just to protect her own butt.
But, if someone other than Terri snatched Kyron from school, then why has LE reassured parents that it was an isolated incident and not to worry about their children’s safety.
@beejay says: August 21, 2010 at 6:50 am
“I’m so sorry. I was trying to be funny. I would’ve posted that to anyone in response to your observation. I’ll keep my sense of humor in check. It is more than a bit bent.”
I apologize for taking your original comment personally. Every family has its odd ducks. My mother was beautifully worthless, and I ended up living with relatives while she got her act together. The people who cared for me during that period of time were fabulous, and I think I turned out okay.
IMHO, Terri Horman is controlling and probably narcissistic. She can look good for the camera but behaves selfishly behind closed doors. It’s a red flag, but it doesn’t mean she was involved in Kyron’s disappearance. This is my belief as to the evidentiary value of that fact. It is not my belief as to her conduct as a human being.
(I know what you’re thinking: Why come to the defense of Terri if she’s so G** d**ned awful? Well, my personal observation is that first and foremost, the vast majority of people in the world are good. Of the ones that are bad, the vast majority are not murderers. That doesn’t mean I like or approve of bad people in any way. I’m just concerned that rushing to a judgment without looking for alternate explanations, could very well delay finding Kyron and identifying the person or people responsible for his disappearance.)
If Terri was controlling of Kryon, her negativity probably permeated her every interaction with him. I have no doubt that Terri’s treatment of Siera was far different and far more positive. There is no way that Kyron missed the disparity in the love (if any) he was getting from Terri, and the genuineness of her outward presentation of a happy family.
I don’t care if Kyron has ADHD or is otherwise not inclined to follow directions, he deserves to be loved for him. Kyron deserves to have discipline given in a loving way, that made clear that the goal was to correct behavior, not condemn him. I am not confident that Terri was capable of that kind of parenting (or step-parenting).
In my completely subjective opinion, there is a theme in the Horman family photos where Kyron is trying so hard to be liked, to strain for admiration and love.
I don’t know what went on between Kaine and Terri, and everything we have here is tainted by the knowledge that Kyron is missing, and the only people who are talking have a lot of compelling reasons to dislike and/or suspect Terri.
What bugs me most is that from everything I have read, neither Terri nor Kaine put Kyron’s needs before their relationship as a married couple. Before anyone jumps on me for saying this, consider the fact that Kaine is complaining about Terri’s behavior prior to Kyron’s disappearance, and Terri’s friends are allegedly complaining about Kaine.
If either one of them really believed these things about the other, why weren’t they taking some kind of action to protect Kyron (and Kiara)?
Dee said “Also Kyron himself would be unable to communicate with the locals as he only speaks English. .. “Bingo…Kyron has a passport!”
Ky had Spanish since Kindergarten.
The missing passport will be easy to check.
I’m still stuck on hoping TH only put Ky underground because she formed some idea in her mind that KH somehow did the unthinkable to his son. Maybe there are a few people who helped her like; someone moving to AZ, someone who had there big home searched that was moving anyway, maybe a close friend whose father works LE by coincidence? Maybe Ky was taken underground in a well orchastrated plan that has been brewing since she moved James and didn’t want any fallout his way. The only things she didn’t think about was that KH would suspect her and then him taking Kitty. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if he was only living with other people and not the unthinkable? No, I don’t think she would think that a man that would harm a boy would be into his own little girl. Guys, this is all hypothetical and just and opinion!
@Dee!
Dee says:August 21, 2010 at 3:08 pm
“…how did they get him across since passports are now required and it is harder to get one for a minor child?”
I agree, the knowledge of the foreign trip did make my eyebrow go up! I have been thinking about the passport thing a lot, because it’s in my other area of interest.
I think it’s odd though.. I have seen photos of the Disney trip.. why none from Israel? Did the kids go? A kid? No kids? Was it a work trip? (the Disney photos were tagged that they occurred during Kaine’s sabbatical from Intel).
The other possibility is a Canadian passport. If Desiree holds both citizenships (re: her trip to Canada for medical treatment) she could potentially have passed that along to Kyron.
Finally, are there records of who enters Mexico by land or vessel? Yes and no, depending on what you call ‘records’ Even though I do a lot of reading about immigration practice and have traveled to Mexico by road many times, I don’t definitively know the answer for every crossing. Usually you pass a military-style checkpoint several miles in from the border. Cameras are used on the US side, even recording exits.
I just checked my memory against my DH: The last time we drove in, we decided to not get our tourist card at the checkpoint. We drove past in on the way in, and past it again on the way out. There’s nothing recorded in our passports to show we were in Mexico.
Do I think that equals ‘there is no record of us being in Mexico’? No way, Jose. : )
@ S says:August 21, 2010 at 3:09 pm
“The article in KATU this AM letting us know this could take years or never be solved made me wonder at two possible reasons: 1. LE really does not have the evidence to make any arrests ever and is depending on some miracle clue coming in or 2. KATU is having too much trouble coming up with juicy stuff so is gradually easing the public off of the story. (NOTE: They are sure able to avoid any LS info without any problems which leads me to believe he is definitely THE KEY). ”
Would you expand on that a bit please, S? I don’t understand the last sentence.. KATU is able to avoid any LS info, therefore you believe LS is The Key? Meaning, KATU has LS info, is withholding it and therefore, KATU knows that much more than the rest of us?
How would KATU staff be able to keep that so tightly wrapped?
Heads up to all: The tease in today’s Oregonian cover reads:
Coming Sunday
Stream of leaks: Some legal experts think that law-enforcement officials are steering the Kyron Horman investigation in an unconventional manner.
Watch for it online this afternoon.
I don’t post here very often but S, I have so many of the same questions that you have! Another thing that has bothered me was the theory that TH intentionally confused the teacher re: the Dr’s appt. I don’t know how one would go about intentionally confusing someone. If TH mumbled something about it, which seems to be the popular theory, how would she know the teacher wasn’t going to say “I’m sorry Terri, I couldn’t hear you. Can you repeat that?” or “Ok, let me go and write that down in my calendar”. If the teacher was genuinely confused and told LE that she thought Kyron was at the Dr, in no way does that confirm TH intentionally set out to confuse her and above that, would be successful in doing so.
The fact that TH said she was driving around with Kiara during the time she was unaccounted for didn’t seem that strange to me. My youngest son would always wake up if I tried to transfer him from his carseat to his crib. Maybe Kiara dozed off during the drive so TH figured may as well let her get her nap in before the gym.
I think it’s unfair not to at least entertain the idea of a stranger abduction. The fact that EX in-laws, EX husbands, EX boyfriends, Ex wives etc. don’t have the nicest things to say doesn’t shock me. I shudder to think what my Ex MIL would say about me!!!
Blink,
I am playing catch up, and I just have to say I despised Romper Room growing up, and your comment made me giggle out loud.
Personally, I love that you keep an eye on all of us. I don’t visit the other blogs nearly as much since I found this place – people are ruthless and ridiculous and lots of other adjectives. I personally like that you make us all play nice while allowing us to have different opinions. Oh, and the conversation you overheard with your tween – priceless!!! See they really do pay attention to everything.
I tend not to like people to ride to close to my bumper – it makes me nervous because that is where my precious cargo sits (my boys). Any ways I often say “quit riding my @$$”. So one day my MIL has the youngest L in her car and L says “Mam’Mam do you know your horn is for when people are riding your @$$?” Needless to say I have learned to watch what I say in the car!
Lol Lol.
B
carson says:
August 21, 2010 at 12:12 pm
from Blink to me:
Conversely, why is she calling LE when the landscaper shows up if she already knew she was a suspect?
Because she wanted to be a suspect in a MFH plot AND in the disappearance of her 7 year old son?
This is simply not that simple, if I may say-
B
I am not sure I am following exactly. In my mind, she called during the sting because she had figured out exactly what was up. By calling 911, she could say, “I have no idea what they are talking about. I am innocent of everything, why would a guilty person call 911.” Every true crime show has the dumbass MFH plotters getting caught on camera. Dateline, city confidential, etc. Just look at Misty Croslin and the drugs, and she knew she was being watched constantly. Criminals fall for it all the time. I think Terri is an expert. We can say what we want, but she is a smart cookie. Dede even spelled it out, they went in the yard to talk.
I mean no disrespect to anyone, I am just very confused about her actions.
IMO just because a woman decides not to date, doesn’t mean she doesn’t like men or women or whatever. It is not an indication of perversion. Some people realize that some choices they have made in the past weren’t all that great, and take time for themselves. Kindly note, there is a difference between dating and being in a relationship. IMO it is pure speculation about the her-her relationship, etc.
On another note, the World Wildlife Fund put out a calendar and the inside picture of red-eyed tree frogs. Awesome photo.
RE: Theory of Kyron being out of country.
Just a thought…DY’s niece married a guy from Norway in July. The wedding was held in or near Medford, OR….possibly, Ashland. The groom’s parents and sister flew in from Norway, to attend the wedding. Is is possible to find out if a passport has been issued for Kyron?
Has the Grand Jury adjourned?
Blink,
Could you possibly think that Terri is purposely trying to get arrested for this? as she had no idea of the type of people she was involved with?
Is she is way over her head?(this is the ONLY REASON I can see her not wantin to fight for her daughter) If she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, her daughter and son and also Kyron could be in HARMS way.
riverpearl says:
August 20, 2010 at 5:19 pm
Thank you riverpearl for posting.
Something I would like information about that anyone may have is about the efficacy of poly’s detecting lies of someone from a cultures other than the American.
A few years back I was attending a training convened by a narcotics task force regarding meth use, cooking, distribution, etc. and somehow we got on the subject of being able to recognize certain behaviors in Mexican nationals. The officer hosting the training told us that it was becoming standard to train officers to recognize certain behavior that had been historically misinterpreted. The example he used was that when officers pulled over a Mexican national for some minor traffic violation it often escalated because the Mexican citizen would not look the officer in the eye. The officer interpreted this as an attempt to deceive him while in truth, the Mexican national was showing respect by looking down.
I researched this then and again today, but find really very little available that satisfies my curiosity.
It has made me wonder about how accurate Rudy’s poly would have been and the polys(?) possibly taken by his cohorts.
4.FLGirl said:
August 21, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Well, just because she didn’t have any BOYfriends prior to recently, doesn’t mean she didn’t date. Perhaps she had girlfriends, or is bisexual? I’m not sure it really means anything, but, perhaps DeDe had some unsuccessful girlfriend relationships; or perhaps there were family issues where she felt she needed to hide her orientation; or perhaps she just figured she would experiment a little, being still single at 40 or whatnot?
@Flgirl:
Good point Flgirl. I just assumed that since there aren’t a slew full of lesbians jumping on the bandwagon and selling their stories about Dee’s tupperware habits, that they don’t exist.
Blink,
Do we need to look at the Stensen guy any? I can’t help but think his trip to Mexico is a little coincidental ya know?
http://www.gungadave.xbuild.com/#/on-the-farm/4514218372
I THOUGHT FROM THE BEGINNING JAMES WOULD BE THE KEY TO THIS, TH HAD TO SEND HIM AWAY FOR HIS PROTECTION, SHE WAS MESSIN WITH SOME BAD PEOPLE, SHE CROSSED THE LINE WITH SOMEONE…WHO?????????
@Malty
RE: Dede and the dog story-
“Thanks.
The way you described your feelings about it brought ears to my eyes.”
Geez, I must have been tired when I wrote that. Busy morning. Should be “tears to my eyes.”
And it still does, so can anyone provide me with a link or synopsis? I never did read Dede’s blog. Someone said that Dede had a dull life so I thought, “Not going there.” Maybe it was in her blog? And wow, it’s quiet here today.
Back at Ya.
Hugs
B
@S: You asked, “But, if someone other than Terri snatched Kyron from school, then why has LE reassured parents that it was an isolated incident and not to worry about their children’s safety.”
_________________________
1. Because the perp(s) are already locked up now???
2. In order to avoid public panic. Immediately they knew it was a crime somehow connected to the family. And perhaps a ransom situation. There was only another few days of school; LE thought it unlikely that another child would be grabbed at Skyline given the additional security they planned to add till school was out.
LE has the benefit of the bio-parents public conviction of Terri to lull Skyline parents into the belief that school is safe now that Terri has moved, is under surveillance, and is likely not motivated to snatch someone else’s kid.
It’s only if parents question the Terri-did-it scenario that there’s a problem of public panic. And that’s really the school’s problem–not that of LE. (Schools generally depend on attendance to obtain their funding.) If parents balked, registering their kids but not letting them attend, then they could put some serious pressure on the school system. They would in turn, scream at LE. But the feds, at least, don’t really respond to that well. Locally LE–maybe more so.
Regarding #11 Dee says:
August 21, 2010 at 3:08 pm
I have long believed that Kyron was taken out of the country.
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Doesn’t make sense that Terri would have somebody take the boy away to live somewhere else. Based on her behavior of hating Kaine so much to have him killed why would she conspire to have Kyron taken way to live somewhere else? He can talk. He is 7. I think she told the person(s), “Kill him” and they did. She just didn’t want to be around or know how they did it. Seriously. Sorry to say this. She isn’t going to tell LE where Kyron is because she doesn’t know but she also knows he is no longer alive. Her information (her perception, that is) doesn’t matter – it won’t find Kyron alive.
I think that LE keeps searching certain areas up to 8 times to gather forensic evidence.
Dee says:
August 21, 2010 at 3:08 pm
I have long believed that Kyron was taken out of the country.
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I agree-my thoughts pretty much match up to your whole premise. And your brown contacts remark? You don’t know how many photos of the Pimpolla trip taken in June to Mexico I have pored through! I feel hiding him in plain sight would be entirely possible. Not likely, but possible. With his hair dyed black and either brown contacts or just no close up shots of his eyes, he would be hard to pick out from a group of kids. Also he most likely wouldn’t be flashing his beautiful smile since he would be nervous and scared-not knowing what in the heck is going on.
I have felt, since almost the beginning of this, that Kyron was taken to Mexico where he couldn’t speak the language–couldn’t ask for help–couldn’t be recognized as there is no TV and computer access or American news programs, especially in the poorest areas.
That’s what I feel–I have no clue why that would happen-just that I feel it did.
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To the parents of Skyline school–over my dead body would my kids be going back to that school without surveillance camera’s installed inside and outside! The school had all summer and have not done that yet? You have got to be kidding me! I would have spearheaded any fundraisers that would have accomplished that goal-any at all! There may only be a one in a million chance that Kyron was nabbed by a stranger–but do you all really want to take that chance?
I got to this website from the one of >200 websites from the embassyenterprises IP address.
http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/37691#comment-12651
Note talking about Kyron.
Oops, that read wrong.
Meant, talking about a case similar to Kyron’s.
Just curious, the Kelley’s that reported seeing the truck on their dead end road at 3pm and 2am on June 4, was it white, blue or black….keep reading different stories.
Falstaff says:
August 21, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Westwind Farm Studio – Maryellen Hockensmith, 13000 Old Germantown Rd.
Thank you, Falstaff. My bad. The “Old” makes a big difference.
I had certainly hoped that before the school year would start, there would be a resolution to this case. No matter the dirty laundry—dirty enough to spawn many theories—I am still drawn to the ironies sprinkled like soap flakes throughout.
1. The CSI t-shirt Kyron wore in that science fair pic.
2. The “safe” school setting shattered—and the missing child’s SM a teacher.
3. Landscaping and gardening—a “ground-cover” for ?
4. A doctor’s appointment–who needed medicating/doctoring/?
5. A “RDSQRL” or a red-eyed tree frog? Both tree-dwellers. One clings, one runs.
6. Parenting—Step-parenting—Adoptive Parenting. The layers of care, needs, responsibilities,personalities….
7. Technology—cell pings, road cams, parking lot cams, store cams. -can we REALLY find a trail?
8. Memory. What who saw when, where. Who will ever forget this story now?
May it teach us to always keep our eyes open. So, as those of us who teach head back to classrooms where safety will be emphasized over and over along with due dates and writing traits, we will be remembering: we touch the lives, the hearts, futures of many students—some may be in the same situation as Kyron had been. May we have wisdom, pay attention, and act on finding help before this ever plays out again.
I was just over reading a link for Oregon live and got the link for anyone interested in reading it. It was VERY strange to me, This writer wrote about how she gathered and worked to get information on Terri and talked to her family etc. but no subject matter. Just strange.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/quick_take_terri_moulton_horma.html
I also read the comments and it seems to be calmed down over there for now.
Blink, I sure hope you are having fun with your family. thanks for all that you do.
“But, if someone other than Terri snatched Kyron from school, then why has LE reassured parents that it was an isolated incident and not to worry about their children’s safety.”
Because it’s a common statement used by LE to prevent hysteria regardless of whether or not it’s true.
It’s much like stating that they have no evidence that Kyron is dead… they don’t have any that he’s alive, either, though we’re all aware it’s not likely.
They use the same sort of phrasing in regards to murders and sexual predations… until if/when the moment comes they are absolutely certain that they are dealing with a serial offender, they will NOT admit that they suspect they are. It’s not positive PR to admit you have a repeat offender on the loose.
If someone felt like they “got played” by Terri, and that is the motivation for Kyron’s disappearance, since there was no ransom, we might assume they were after *emotional* retaliation and not *monetary* retaliation.
Instead of motivated by money, if someone abducted Kyron to inflict horror and distress in TH then I am surprised Kryon was chosen instead of Kiara.
If the abductor knew Terri personally (and even if they only knew her through facebook), they would know that she is absolutely smitten with her little girl. If a person were trying to inflict the harshest pain wouldn’t the baby be a more likely (and easier) target?
Why Kyron, in a crowded school, with his mom apparently just feet away? It just doesn’t make sense.
@ S….You had commented, “If someone other than Terri snatched Kyron from school, then why has LE reassured parents that it was an isolated incident and not to worry about their children’s safety?”
*deep sigh of frustration*……we heard this in the Morgan Harrington case too…”don’t worry…isolated incident” but now there are DNA connections in her case that link to a rape case in another city strongly suggesting Morgan’s murder was random and predatory….exactly what LE said it was not.
Generally I am a strong supporter of LE’s work and need for keeping things close to the vest. But in regards to the public’s safety, I think LE owes the public a warning if anything points toward stranger abduction. My gut tells me Kyron was specifically targeted.