Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
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@chianme
I looked for the dog blog
a month ago I spent a whole day reading DeeDee
blogs
today all I can find left is at
http://deedle-dede-blogspot.com
if you google dog sitting deedle
you will come to the address on scared monkey
but it leads no where now
sorry
she has lots of blogs in July most were pretty
boring stuff
she sounded very lonely and bored
someone smarter than I am may be able to
call them up
the ones I read were posted under deedle
or deejustdee
The address I posted is in google cashe
@ Dee – great comment.
If Kyron has a passport, where is it? Did LE find it in the house, or in a safe box? Hummm.
http://www.us-passport-service-guide.com/child-passport.html has an easy to read description of what it takes for a child to get one
If his passport IS there, it could mean he didn’t cross the border, or he had a fake one, or he was smuggled or “bribed” across somehow.
I don’t think Terri could have gotten a duplicate saying it was lost without doing something illegal (forged signatures with her as a 3rd party or whatever). The original passport would have been invalidated if reported lost. Might as well have gotten forged documents in the first place – too many ways to get caught trying to get a duplicate.
If his passport is not with Kaine (or LE), then perhaps it was used. The question then would be how soon nationwide information that included border crossings was put out – or how soon a kidnapper would expect it to be. It seems like one would have to fly him somewhere close to the border, even for Canada, then drive across with his passport to be sure to cross the border before anyone was checking for him. Even with a fake passport it would raise suspicions if a child was with one or more persons who obviously appeared unrelated and was also said to be asleep, car sick, etc. And if he were with people here illegally, they couldn’t just zip across the border with him legally.
I would still like to know where the passport is, but it seems to me it would be easier for people who have “connections” to get him across a border illegally.
I have wondered, and wanted not to wonder, whether anyone in any of these agencies is monitoring the ugly websites (trafficking, child porn) to see if his picture shows up. That would be a huge and sad job, but perhaps there’s a computer that can do it for you if you scan in pictures and description of a particular missing child. I don’t watch TV crime shows (I used to watch MONK, but had to stop) – due to work I’ve done in the past, I don’t even watch TV news anymore (I read it online) because I have nightmares afterward if I do, so perhaps this is already done by computer. Anyone know? If not, there ought to be a way.
It just seems extraordinarily complicated and risky to get him out of the country, even illegally. I could see it if one parent were running from the other and had the child’s trust and cooperation, but strangers? Kyron was said to be shy and timid, but could he be intimidated into looking “normal” while traveling? If drugged, he would have to remain totally hidden the whole time.
Neither Terri nor DeDe would create an entire plan that extensive (including leaving the country) for Kyron and which would continue out of their control IMO, so someone else who already had the connections and “ways and means” to do that with or without their knowledge and help would have had to take over. Of course, it’s possible Terri or DeDe could already have had some existing connections – possible, but definitely not the simplest plan.
————
S says: But, if someone other than Terri snatched Kyron from school, then why has LE reassured parents that it was an isolated incident and not to worry about their children’s safety.
— I agree with you because (1) even if Kyron were the target and not any other child, unless Terri acted totally alone for the whole event, it means people who can and will do this are closer to our children than we think, and (2) everybody knows “copycat” crimes do happen and this one has made a few people “famous” for much longer than 15 minutes – a motive for some. I think that statement was meant in good faith, but I wouldn’t have said it that way and, if I were “the district”, I would be working really hard with principals, staff, and parents at every school on the issue of safety – yes, I know they are probably trying to do that.
Unfortunately, the first response is often that if we make too big an issue out of it, we may look like we were at fault. I worked in a high school where students who came for special programs part of the day and who drove (they had to park on the street) were being mugged one year as they got out of the car. Instead of warning students and parents, or creating safer parking, it was kept a secret as long as possible because they were afraid students in those programs would stop attending (think money). They reasoned it was just a 1-time, then 2-time, then 3-time, etc., event.
Does anyone else know how hard it has been over the years to get churches to change the way they handle security for the nursery and children’s programs (many do an excellent job now), and how many babies were taken or misplaced in hospitals before their security procedures changed for newborns?
Schools need a complete regular review by people who know both security and, more importantly, the culture of the schools – every building has its own subtle ways of interacting with its community and its own environmental challenges – sometimes you have to change your way of thinking, not just lock your doors and add cameras.
OK – off soapbox now. Would that be “OSN”?
13.Tarheel says:
August 20, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Tarheel, I am just catching up on posts and, like others, think you made a good point about KH. Your comments made me think of a woman I knew who adored the man her daughter was dating. She boasted about how well the man dealt with her grandson’s behavior. The relationship ended when the couple had a fight and the man made threats against the woman’s daughter. The woman then became critical of how harshly the man disciplined her grandson, citing the same examples she had previously when she praised the man.
I guess what that reveals to me is how our perspective of someone’s actions depends upon our overall assessment of that person. In a romantic relationship, love is blind, as they say. A person will have a rosier view toward the object of their affection than they would in the absence of an intimate relationship. Even friendship with or general admiration of a person can have the same effect. If our relationship with the person changes, it’s likely our perspective of their actions will also change.
I think Terri quit bodybuilding because she didnt win. She came in fourth out of four contestants in her category. I’m also thinking she would not want to divorce Kaine knowing he would get custody of Kiara. With that DUI & Child Endangerment on her record she wouldn’t have a chance and she knew it. No child support/alimony to live on til she found husband number four.
@Falstaff:
The address of the farm where DD was working is incorrect. The correct address is 13000 NW Old Germantown Rd, not 13000 Germantown Rd.
As I was plugging the address onto Google Earth a couple things jumped out at me.
Looking at the address it doesn’t appear there would be much traffic on this road – pretty isolated just a few homes around.
I looked for an area where DD could have been working and just not have been seen by anyone. She would need to be working on the grounds as they were readying for the “Garden Conservatory Tour” the next day. I couldn’t find anything I thought might work. This place is too open and not that large as far as the main area and buildings are concerned. She was gone for almost three full hours without anyone being able to find her – she was obviously not around the house or main grounds.
IMO she either hid out in the woods and took a three hour nap or, snuck off through the woods and met up with someone on the roadside.
RE: “The fact that EX in-laws, EX husbands, EX boyfriends, Ex wives etc. don’t have the nicest things to say doesn’t shock me.”
Really. People being all 100% believing on that has me sort of amazed.
RE: The DDS boyfriend letter.
Sounds like a bitter ex trashing her just because he can, but doing it in the fake-sugar, nicey-nice way… yuck. I especially like the part how, when she’s on unemployment, and he’s working, he’s the one all living in despair… and yet he didn’t just say, you know what, I don’t have the time/cash/interest in working on a project like that. From what he said, she was quite willing to do the project herself – and he just wouldn’t let go of the issue… he wanted her to NEED him. And she’s apparently independent enough that she didn’t.
The other thing that amuses me… that people are acting all shocked that someone who’d just been dumped would look for a rebound relationship. Since when is this unusual? Oh, that’s right, it’s NOT. In fact, in the skanky world we live in today, it’s encouraged.
And all we have so far on that is RUMOR from the person who dumped her. And if it’s true: So it was an acquaintance of her ex. Who cares? That’s pretty much the most common person for it to be. So there is this big monster issue, Kyron’s disappearance. That makes it even more likely that she would be seeking support and stress reduction – not less.
We don’t have any facts – we have rumors from supposed “reliable sources” that are now being somewhat negated by other, apparently LE-connected “sources”.
Obviously, the person reporting the MFH scheme isn’t someone that LE considers all that reliable a witness. Otherwise, we’d be seeing charges so that she’d be detained and they’d know where she was, and would find it a lovely way to put pressure on her.
To top it off, the grand jury fishing expedition appears to be clearing her, not incriminating her.
When it starts looking like the accused might be falsely so, where do you look for the guilty party? At the one pointing the finger. Sometimes they’re not the actual culprit, but have some pretty significant secrets to hide, and assume that the party they’re accusing does, too.
There might be something that could lead to Kyron in those secrets.
Two Interesting Comments:
“Spicer told a GJ that she, another girlfriend and TH, each bought an untraceable cell phone the day Little K vanished.” Foxnewsinsider.com
This statement leads me to these questions:
If DD went in front of GJ, she has been offered some sort of immunity.
Then, who was the other person in the truck with TH that day, this other girlfriend? Did they work together and do something with Little K?
If yes, then I am assuming the two of them purchased the cell phones, waited around to pick up DD at 10:00. Together they did whatever with Little K – OR,
TH and girlfriend purchased the cell phones from the 2nd FM then drove to DD and gave her one. But, why? Why would she need one at this point unless there was still work to do?
So, the three of them TH, DD and ??? all had “secret” cell phones which were purchased on June 4th – to cover up something and then be able to stay in contact with each other secretly – maybe even with other people? Confusing.
____________________________________________________________________
Wishert/Wishart/aka Mr. Big…said he called the Multnomah County Sheriff’s office tip line soon after hearing Spicher’s name in the news.
He added: “My mouth was agape”. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing,” Wishert recalled. “I thought, ‘Oh my gosh, there’s two things that investigators should look at.’”
Mr. Big provided investigators with the name of a close confidante of Spicher. Could this be the girlfriend?
I think Mr. Big should work on closing his “agape” mouth and hearing more what he sees!
Could someone tell me please how to search on comments from a certain poster or topic? Thanks
Re: DDS and is she or isn’t she (or is she both) on her sexual orientation. Hopefully we can leave that now. I am sure she had some type of intense bonding with TH, whatever you want to call it. There are also people who are asexual, not highly motivated to do anything with anybody. JW said he was her first boyfriend then also said she had something going on with someone else before? (I know there can be different definitions of boyfriend) He also said she told him she hadn’t been with women. The previous profile might speak to a high-powered female careerist, but we don’t have that either. Perhaps she did have a lot of issues going on that she struggled with. Perhaps she just really identified with TH as they had some similar commonalities in life – weight issues, relationship issues, getting over 40, warped thinking, depression, unemployed and wanting to do something to get some recognition or do something bigger. TH has a habit of playing on people and DDS was probably just one more.
I hear what people are saying about the schools and now it is really up to the parents to decide if they feel comfortable sending their kids there. Without a new plan for security at that school, I for sure wouldn’t feel safe with kids there. One wonders if the school is now known as an easy place for perps.
Newsatfive says:
August 21, 2010 at 3:27 pm
As to every family having their odd ducks: I grew up in the Deep South, many moons ago. It was a standing tradition there, partly due to not much else to do except gossip, to bring our family “idiots” right out into the front parlor. Kinda like conversation pieces, or coffee table books today. Whereas, in other geographies/cultures they were “kept in the attic” out of embarassment.
Nowadays we diagnose and treat them. Back then they were just colorful.
Oh yeah, I have mine, too. And they were quite destructive of the lives around them.
I laugh so I don’t cry.
@evie: Thanks for the heads up on this:
Heads up to all: The tease in today’s Oregonian cover reads:
Coming Sunday
Stream of leaks: Some legal experts think that law-enforcement officials are steering the Kyron Horman investigation in an unconventional manner.
Watch for it online this afternoon.
_______________________________________________
Lol. (NOT at you, evie) Do we really need a talking head to process this for us? “unconventional”, I’ll say!
And as to the mass media, I’m coining a new acronym for myself, which I’ve needed for a very long time: “WWWCD” (What Would Walter Cronkite Do?)
Starshadow,
I applaud your common sense and wholeheartedly agree with your post about looking at those pointing the fingers and “reliable” sources.
Another school in Oregon ( in Washington Co. close to Skyline School) -parent talks about school safety
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoId=17685@koin.web.entriq.net&navCatId=156
Keep ‘em safe –
I think it’s gonna take the parents to push this, with Portland Public Schools cutting millions and I don’t know if other districts have to cut too.
starshadow says:
August 22, 2010 at 11:04 am
We don’t have any facts – we have rumors from supposed “reliable sources” that are now being somewhat negated by other, apparently LE-connected “sources”.
~~~
ooops … careful starshadow, or you’ll be accused of being me.
@Shelly
Here is an article regarding the sightings of the truck. I often wonder about those truck sightings as well. Was there a second truck? Was LE staying at the Horman home by the second sighting? I have always thought it may be significant because this article came out just a couple of days after Kyron was reported missing and before we knew investigators would be interested in information regarding a white truck.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/day_three_search_continues_hun.html
I am exhausted this weekend but after getting some rest yesterday did reread your first reference to the post you saw on the THSP. As far as tips go the BringKyronHome.org site notes “Report any possible tips to the Tip Line: 503-261-2847, or call 911 if it is a critical/urgent situation. Don’t resist reporting a tip, even if you’re unsure of its validity. Many missing children are found by strangers reporting something that “just didn’t seem right”.
CentralORMom says:
August 21, 2010 at 12:06 pm
taken from: Statement Analysis referring to Wishert Wishart, Jason
Anonymous:
I think he’s defensive about being a child advocate because his father was arrested in a child pornography sting.
So now ask the question of why a 20-something young man whose father had a fondness for child pornography would volunteer “unpaid” to work with vulnerable children. Not forgetting how this man feels about “unpaid” labor, as we read in his letter.
I think it could go either way- he’s genuinely trying to save children from what his father did, or he’s one messed up individual who should be examined a lot more closely by those who allow him to volunteer.
Friday, 20 August, 2010
I wrote to Anonymous and asked if he would provide me the links to his statement.
This was his response:
Anonymous said…
http://www.justice.gov/usao/or/PressReleases/2009/20090921_Wishart.html
Gives info about his father.
You can trace JW’s name spelling change in several different ways – it’s especially compelling when you look at different links between him & his father (friends of the family, etc) as well as the two alternate name spellings for “two people” who were born on the same day in the same town to the same parents.
Newsatfive says:
August 21, 2010 at 5:10 am
Google the name William Kent Wishart (the one with the record). Look at some of the articles that kick up about him. I did, and one thing jumped off the the page: ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement).
That’s the same agency that turned up on the list of agencies involved in Kyron’s disappearance.
ICE is different from INS. ICE handles cyber crimes and child exploitation, among other things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_%26_Customs_Enforcement
If ICE is involved — and it is — then LE believes something unholy happened to Kyron. I am physically ill at the thought.
*************
Good Lord, throw another log on the fire! What is really up with Jason Wish Whatever?! I was discounting him as a total bonehead, shame on me. His father’s business was/is based in Vacouver BC and he went to prison on child porn charges!? And JW works with an orphanage in Mexico?! Is the ICE due to Sanchez and/or Wishart? WTH? Do I have this straight? Could Kyron be in Vancouver now? Would it be easier getting him into Canada than Mexico? On a boat/ferry or in a car or train it’s a lot closer. I’ve taken the trains and ferries to BC and customs is a breeze. BTW security on trains SUCKS even after 9/11. How about the statement pointed out by @RichM that JW made in his letter to the effect of : “I can’t see her (DS) helping a friend murder and bury a child”?
Is this all coinicidence here? I won’t even pretend to know what to think. This whole case is so full of bizarre characters and connections! You could examine my whole life and never come up with half of this stuff.
Also, I just have to say that if Houze has any answers that would lead to Kyron and he doesn’t “leak it” then I hope he burns in Hell. No MOO or apologies on that, I don’t give a crap what the law says. That is where I draw the line.
I need to think for awhile, pass the Advil please. Honestly Blink, I don’t know how you do it. Kudos to you.
Didn’t he deny that rumor on SM? Is that his Dad or not?
B
OT, but showing successful arrest of a trafficker, pursued by FBI and Salem, OR police:
“A 22-year-old Portland man faces federal sex-trafficking charges for allegedly transporting a 13-year old girl to three other states where he forced her into prostitution and beat her when she resisted.
“Davis allegedly got the girl’s address and threatened to kill her family if she talked to the police. He also made references to a gang affiliation.”
Reminds readers to call in trafficking tips to Multnomah County’s Sheriff Deputy Sgt. Keith Bickford at (503) 251-2479
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/portland_man_charged_in_forced.html
My mother-in-law has gone to other’s houses and rearranged their furniture. She has come to my house when I was putting on a graduation party, told me what to do the entire time, and then rearranged everything I put out on the table. When her kids were still at home, she went into her daughter’s closet and wore her clothes. She also helped herself to a new T-shirt of my husband’s to wear while she bleached her hair. When she is at our house, she insists on unloading the dishwasher and then we look for months for the cheese grater, measuring cups, etc. My husband asked her to stop unloading the dishwasher because we are still looking for items from the last time she was here and she basically told him to leave the kitchen. If we go to a family gathering and try to relax and get our bearings, she comes over and orders us to go visit with Aunt Sylvia, or whoever. I could go on for pages. Some people think they know the right way to do everything and everyone should do it their way. While she is invading everyone’s boundaries, she has this strict moral code she adheres to with no grey areas. I recently read about the Obsessive/Compulsive or Conscientious Personality. Nail on the head – ‘splains everything!
What’s odd about Terri is that she has the other side to her which is out of control: alcoholism, speeding, sexting, infidelity. There are a mug shot, tickets, and text records to prove these things, but no one has come forward to describe her demeanor in these instances. She wants to control others, while her own life is in disarray.
A little about Kyron’s behavior at school: Carol Moulton commented right after Kyron went missing that Kyron often got in trouble at school by talking with a friend. Tony Young made the comment in the Dateline interview that Kyron seemed to be doing better and making some friends. I’ve had experience with students thinking it’s better to make the other kids laugh than to do what the teacher asks. In second grade, my own son would refuse to write rather than have the teacher point out how poor his writing was. Peer recognition often outweighs the teacher’s consequences.
Maybe by monitoring Kyron’s color changes at school, Terri was trying to make up for mistakes she made with James. Obviously James’s behavior wasn’t stellar and Terri was going to nip Kyron’s problem in the bud. I think most teachers would appreciate a little more cooperation from home. It just sounds like Terri’s punishment was excessive. Kaine didn’t say for how long it went on, but in those pictures at the bowling alley, it seemed like the light in Kyron’s smile had gone out a bit – like the constant scrutiny had gotten him down.
For a few days this past week, I got to assess kids for kindergarten readiness. They were so cute! Many of the parents had questions about what teacher they would get, how their child would know when to get off the bus, whether they would have am or pm kindergarten. But then there was the helicopter mom. She obsessed over the questionnaire I gave her saying she could remember the exact date he crawled or said his first word. When I explained the testing procedure, she asked me if she could explain it again in her own words to her son so that he wouldn’t be frightened. She referred to the principals by their first names and told the secretary she would be by to see them before she left. Man I hope I wasn’t that bad when my kids were little. Seems like Terri did her fair share of hovering, which could have been trying to get a job at the school. Helicopter parents are annoying but are just usually trying to protect their kids, not harm them.
So, if Terri is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance was it the controlling persona or the out-of-control persona to blame? Which one is the real Terri or is she both? Did Terri’s controlling behavior lead to abuse and then to murder to cover it up? Or did her risky behavior expose Kyron to a dangerous perp? It seems like the Blink and the posters here have to some degree lined up on one side or the other. Even her timeline for June 4 shows that both Terris were in play that morning. There’s so much we still don’t know.
I assumed that when JW said that DeDe hadn’t ever had a boyfriend, that it was because she hadn’t been asked out, not that she chose not to date men. JW said something like if it didn’t work out with him that she would never pursue a man again. That made me think she had pursued men in the past but they had rejected her advances.
Malty suggested that DeDe was lonely and bored. Lonely and bored people often have active fantasy lives. DeDe’s retelling of her time at Terri’s house seems to me like she was living her fantasy of being the heroine, of protecting someone who needed her help. She had to guard the door with her car fire extinguisher like a superhero. When I read that Terri’s parents had asked DeDe to stay with Terri to protect her, I wondered if the real threat to Terri was Terri herself. It sounded like a suicide watch to me.
Again, DeDe’s demeanor while walking away from the GJ seemed like she was playing the heroine again, if only in her own mind. “Here I am to save the day for my dear friend with whose life I have been entrusted.”
1.CentralORMom says:
August 22, 2010 at 11:06 am
Two Interesting Comments:
“Spicer told a GJ that she, another girlfriend and TH, each bought an untraceable cell phone the day Little K vanished.” Foxnewsinsider.com
_______________________________________________________
Can someone verify this statement?? LE would certainly want to know what time of day those cell phones were purchased if they indeed were purchased on June 4th. It would be of critical importance to the case if they were purchased before the 911 call reported at 3:45 pm that day.
I can verify the statement, but not the source- I agree that timing is critical.
B
evie says:
August 21, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Would you expand on that a bit please, S? I don’t understand the last sentence.. KATU is able to avoid any LS info, therefore you believe LS is The Key? Meaning, KATU has LS info, is withholding it and therefore, KATU knows that much more than the rest of us?
How would KATU staff be able to keep that so tightly wrapped?
It’s my belief that there are professional agreements (you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours) between LE “reliable sources” and the various media outlets. I wasn’t trying to single KATU out but used them in this reference because of their latest article. It appears to be telling to me that media dogs Terri’s friends and acquaintances, present and past, for any information and statements. They have done the same to DeDe’s past and present friends and acquaintances. There are media reports about the MFH plot and most say a landscaper was involved, but the landscaper’s name and history and lifestyle are glaringly ABSENT! Why has the media not camped on his doorstep? Why are they not following him around and why no video/pics of him leaving the courthouse after he allegedly testified before the GJ? Why have they not interviewed all of his workers, family, neighbors? I think the answer is that LE has asked media to back off and not hound him. LE has OK’d and encouraged the media hounding of DeDe et al and Terri et al, but not Rudy???? I think it’s because RS is all LE has and it would be extremely easy, unless he is locked up, for RS to disappear, regardless of who is following him.
Regarding everyone’s input about my questioning LE reassuring Skyline parents there is nothing to worry about, I really, really appreciate it. I firmly believe if there are witnesses who can honestly state that they saw Kyron leave with Terri, then there would have been an arrest by now. I think if there were witnesses who saw Kyron get in the Hormon truck, or saw him in the truck at Freddy’s, there would be an arrest by now. I believe if there was verifiable evidence that Kyron was seen with Terri leaving or outside of the school, with the fact that he has vanished into thin air, she would be arrested.
I don’t have a child attending Skyline, but if I did, I would demand some answers and I mean NOW. I’m not surprised that cameras have not yet been installed, I’m sure they are waiting for the FY10-11 to begin. Unfortunately, our schools seem more accountable to their pocketbooks than to the safely of our children.
Newsatfive-I can relate to that for sure!
the only problem is that when one of the bunch gets the help they need, they have a hard time fitting back in during the family gedt togethers.
13.Newsatfive says:
August 21, 2010 at 3:27 pm
@beejay says: August 21, 2010 at 6:50 am
In my completely subjective opinion, there is a theme in the Horman family photos where Kyron is trying so hard to be liked, to strain for admiration and love.
____________
I completely agree, as someone else says, his huge smile beams “Love Me!” Poor little boy.
1.CentralORMom says:
August 22, 2010 at 11:06 am
Two Interesting Comments:
“Spicer told a GJ that she, another girlfriend and TH, each bought an untraceable cell phone the day Little K vanished.” Foxnewsinsider.com
_____________
I’ve been racking my brain to find a scenario where this statement doesn’t sound evil. I just can’t.
42.mosaic says:
August 22, 2010 at 12:17 am
If the abductor knew Terri personally (and even if they only knew her through facebook), they would know that she is absolutely smitten with her little girl. If a person were trying to inflict the harshest pain wouldn’t the baby be a more likely (and easier) target?
Why Kyron, in a crowded school, with his mom apparently just feet away? It just doesn’t make sense.
************************************************************
I agree, Mosaic. There are so many interesting theories here, and today, I find myself (with so few verified facts) trying to narrow down the “possibilities” into “probabilities”. So, I’ll add my two cents:
I have never suspected that Kyron’s abduction/disappearance is a case of retaliation against TH nor do I think that TH “stashed” Kyron in order to protect him from Kaine. If someone wanted to inflict pain on TH or retaliate against her I believe the perpetrator would have found a way to take her daughter, Kiara. If TH’s motivation was to protect Kyron from Kaine, I think she would have likely talked to DY and/or LE instead of risking an arrest for kidnapping.
IMHO, Kyron was either taken by a pedophile who was familiar with the workings and layout of the school or was taken by someone in a plot orchestrated by TH as retaliation against KH. IF TH is involved, could TH have acted alone? In such a tight time frame, probably not. As others have said, I hope LE is keeping an open mind and is considering all scenarios.
Re: Kyron being transported out of the country and placed in an orphanage or with some other entity: this is an interesting theory and is certainly possible, but is it likely to have happened? If Kyron had a passport, I am sure LE wanted to know it’s whereabouts. No doubt they also talked to border agents and checked the airports, at a minimum. But, this scenario would require the cooperation of so many different individuals. Those individuals would need to be not only complicit but–at a minimum–competent in carrying out their assigned tasks in order to pull it off for this long. I just don’t see it.
Re: TH’s actions during the MFH sting: TH has been described as intelligent with an interest in CSI/crime shows. If she was involved in a MFH conspiracy, she probably realized the MFH claim was going to be a “he said/she said” issue, and decided to call LE, act like an innocent victim, and categorically deny everything. MFH would seem to be very difficult to prove without credible corroborating evidence. Am I correct, newsatfive?
Again, just my opinions and thoughts. This heartbreaking case is often a topic of conversation at my workplace. We are all praying that Kyron is found safe and sound, but are all fearing the worst has happened.
Why is Michael Cook sexting me?
Interesting read: Todd Ewalt’s experience as a person of interest
“He even took a lie-detector test. Forty-five minutes later, a detective returned and promptly informed Todd that he had failed it.”
http://www.pennlive.com/specialprojects/index.ssf/2010/08/advocate_questions_treatment_o.html
I realize Blink does not put much credence into the work of Harry Oakes, but I am frankly amazed by the latest allegations on his myspace site:
“A parent whose child attended Skyline Elementary school stated that she saw Terri physically and verbally abusing Kyron repeatedly throughout the school year. Terri was seen striking Kyron, grabbing him, and call him names in front of the parents, teachers, and other kids.
Kyron repeatedly told anyone who would listen that his “Step mother is dead”. Terri would then counter with” He’s talking about his real mother not me”.
It has been reported by parents who were at the Horman residence the day Kyron disappeared to lend their support to the Horman family that Terri removed all of Kyron’s personal belongings from his room and packed them up, and moved her two-year-old daughter’s stuff into Kyron’s room.”
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=127939120&blogId=538423807
RE:
MockingbirdSings says:
August 22, 2010 at 1:47 am
Schools need a complete regular review by people who know both security and, more importantly, the culture of the schools – every building has its own subtle ways of interacting with its community and its own environmental challenges – sometimes you have to change your way of thinking, not just lock your doors and add cameras.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I, like many posting here, have first-hand experience w/ PPS.
They have a history of closing rank and file.
Teachers talk among other teachers, both with in there school and outside to other schools
BUT they are VERY tight lipped to parents and carry the PPS party line.
My personal history to gaining ‘knowledge; of the ‘inside scoop’, was knowing teacher(s) personally (ie.awaqy from the school).
PPS is slow to accept change if coming from a parent and always rather ‘teflon coated’ to accepting blame for a situation that arises.
It is known in Portland that Skyline School HAD the absentee call system BUT DID NOT use it.
(PPS/Skyline united front, never had an absentee problem to use it for?!! WTH?!!)
I have no experience w/ school systems outside Oregon so I cannot comment on how it differs w/ other states.
PPS is the largest school district in the state. Since the early 90′s has had huge budget cuts brought on by a tax measure that passed. It has caused marked changes w/i PPS. One big difference, larger classes. Teachers have less back-up resources….
I will stop before the soap box appears.
But will say PPS is watching this very carefully, lawyers at the ready.
If anyone questions how ready, the Mayor has never once made comment on Kyron’s disappearance except to have staff send out a twit asking to ID the man in the bkgrd of Kyron’s photo @ SF.
Once again you guys provide an out &loud roar from me while doing my BOC reading. Particularly-
1. Newsatfive says:
August 21, 2010 at 3:27 pm
As to every family having their odd ducks: I grew up in the Deep South, many moons ago. It was a standing tradition there, partly due to not much else to do except gossip, to bring our family “idiots” right out into the front parlor. Kinda like conversation pieces, or coffee table books today. Whereas, in other geographies/cultures they were “kept in the attic” out of embarassment.
Family idiots- what a hoot. Know plenty of those, too bad people can’t quarantine that behavior in the work place.
On a more serious note, I thought I would issue a consumer warning to update your virus software and other tools. While surfing into the cesspool Blink has so kindly advised us about, I found some problems. Happy to note after some extra spending, I have a good bill of health.
1. CentralORMom says:
August 22, 2010 at 10:25 am
~snip~
I looked for an area where DD could have been working and just not have been seen by anyone. She would need to be working on the grounds as they were readying for the “Garden Conservatory Tour” the next day. I couldn’t find anything I thought might work. This place is too open and not that large as far as the main area and buildings are concerned. She was gone for almost three full hours without anyone being able to find her – she was obviously not around the house or main grounds. ******
I came to the same conclusion after looking at the location/grounds etc.
RE Mr Wishert/Whishart, JMO:
I think he is purposely making DD out to be a nut, more than she may already be, b/c he has something to hide. If everyone hasn’t gone to monkeys and read that thread, you should. That way you can form your own conclusions. I just don’t believe we have heard the last about him.
I am leaning toward TH and DD being involved in some online scams, that have come around to get them. I believe while the police were in her home, they found links or remnants of illegal activities she has be into to keep herself occupied and with some extra cash.( I am being tame here) This opened the door to suspecting TH in addition to her ridiculous stories. What I am uncertain of is whether she sought this action against Kyron, or it was in retaliation of what she was doing to others. A case of her being in over her head, as others have suggested. I ponder about the timing of DD & TH’s behavior changes, and if they happened in close proximity. Maybe they were being extorted? Something scared the #hit out of them, don’t you think? Doesn’t anyone wonder what was in DD’s room she didn’t allow them into originally? If TH was selling products or goods online, she couldn’t have stored them at her house without KH knowing, the spare room at DD’s may have been perfect. Of coarse this is all above is MY speculating, but I think this may be a possibility. I really fear for Kyron, it is way too long now without any word. Anyone have any suggestions of what avenues we can look at?
Praying for you Kyron
It seems to be interesting:
“A parent whose child attended Skyline Elementary school stated that she saw Terri physically and verbally abusing Kyron repeatedly throughout the school year. Terri was seen striking Kyron, grabbing him, and call him names in front of the parents, teachers, and other kids.”
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=127939120&blogId=538423807
Almost 3000 comments. What is the record, Blink?
Ya know- I have no clue-
B
S says:
August 21, 2010 at 3:09 pm
However, if Terri found out Kyron had been harmed after she left Freddy’s and drove around freaking out, then what in the hell would lead her to go to the gym? Her next stop just does not fit in unless she was so scared she wanted to take Kitty to a public place.
~~~
thanks for bringing this up. I have always had trouble with her going to the gym, if she knew Kryon was missing. Was it confirmed that she was at the gym, or just her FP posting?
RE:
Essay Kaye says:
August 22. 2010 at 6:34pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OMG!!!
WTH???
@dubhe… with all due respect, I have to declare BS on Harrys blog. The entire blog seems contradictive. He claims that the I.K.9.S.A.R.S keep indicating a “death alert” anytime they get near the perimeter of the Horman residence – maybe that “death alert” is really a “human feces alert” afterall one of the Hormans’ neighbors said reporters camped out for days and relieved themselves on his/her property.
Second…he contradicts himself saying that Kyron was never seen at school at June 4th by anyone (and claiming that the science fair pic could have been taken from June 3rd and photo shopped). WTH?
Most importantly, why would Harry Oakes be privy to any of this information in the first place?
If LE was treating this as a ransom. Then they wouldn’t have wanted terri using her phone in case an important call came in. Correct?
And if my theory that terri has been working with LE all along, then it may have been dede and her friend that terri was suspicious of doing something to kyron.
Thinking out loud, if terri knew Absolutely nothing of the abduction, would a perp or someone involved be more apt to purchase a phone for terri or not? Which would LE eliminate?
S says:
August 21, 2010 at 3:09 pm
However, if Terri found out Kyron had been harmed after she left Freddy’s and drove around freaking out, then what in the hell would lead her to go to the gym? Her next stop just does not fit in unless she was so scared she wanted to take Kitty to a public place.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Maybe working out at the gym lowers her anxiety level and helps her focus…or maybe she wanted to stay with her usual routine so as not to raise any suspicions. If I recall, Diane Downs was as cool as a cucumber after she shot her children.
Essay Kaye says:
August 22, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Sounds about as real as most of the crap on MS. I have strong doubts that Terri was allowed to abuse Kyron in front of other parents and teachers at school. Striking him and grabbing him? Calling him names? No way. Teachers are not perfect but they are pretty darn vigilant about reporting abuse or even SUSPECTED abuse. I don’t see how every parent witnessing abuse would turn their heads.
I was under the impression that LE can’t arrest Teri until the GJ hands down a “True Bill”. Not sure of the correct phasing of True Bill. Is the GJ still meeting?
I still think Teri is one of the main players in this situation if not the only one. Dede is probably complicit with information only, the time Teri and Dede spent whispering in the backyard.
Dede’s xBF is just looking for his 15 minutes of fame and is probably hanging his head in embarrassment after he read everyone’s comments about him.
Kaine wasn’t happy with the way Teri was spending money. Just what was she buying? Stuff for herself, her daughter, her son, Kyron, the house? Maybe she thought, OK you tightwad, I will spend your life insurance money, enter landscaper. That didn’t work for ever reason but it was still on her mind.
Now her older son isn’t doing well in school and how embarrassing for Teri’s image/reputation, so she gets rid of him. Oh geeze, now Kyron is a problem, getting yellow or blue colors.
She has a bone to pick with the school district for never hiring her, Kaine nagging her about money, the boys not doing well in school {in her mind}. Life is not going well for her. With the MFH plan in her mind it’s easy for her to think about murder. What better way to get back at Kaine and the school district for ‘slighting” her. Have her stepson go missing under the school’s watch.
I think Kyron went out a side door and got in the truck. At 10:10 am when she didn’t get a call from the school asking about Kyron absence, she disposed of him. I think Dede not being seen around the same time Teri is unaccounted for is just a coincidence. Dede’s involvement is the knowledge of the private chats she had with Teri during that 11 day sleepover party.
I think LE knows darn well Teri is responsible, but until they find the body there is nothing they can do. No eye witnesses to kyron leaving or being with Teri after 8:45. Or do they have enough circumstantial evidence but need the “true Bill to proceed?
What did her computer searches reveal? What did her phone records reveal before and after Kyron went missing. When were the secret phones obtained. Was she on FB everyday all day except June 3rd? Where was she that day? Scouting disposal sites? at home, does LE have cell phone pings for that day?
Not every case of missing children get this much media exposure. I’m sure Teri didn’t expect all of this attention and therefore; didn’t cover her tracts completely. Did she use the secret phone to sext with Michael Cook? If not, then why? She knew her phone was being bugged, that’s why the bat phones.
To many unanswered questions for me. Way to much circumstantial evidence for me not to think Teri is involved.
I forgot to post my link:
SM and
http://truecrimes.50.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?f=565&t=4198&p=25378
@Essay Kaye says:
August 22, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Thanks for posting Harry Oak’s myspace blog. I officially have no faith in him what so ever after reading that. He obviously is listening to that someone that has been out and out lying since day one. I say that since her story keeps getting bigger and bigger and obviously Harry fell for it.
Regarding teachers reporting Kyron was being abused by Terri at Skyline and the Harry gossip hotline.
http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/abuse/mandatory_report.shtml
I am ashamed to say I actually stuck up for the Harry nitwit reasoning that he really could not hurt anything. His dissemination of this junk can hurt a lot of people. I am glad to say I never attributed him with much brains.
Where is FOX News getting information about what was said to the grand jury? The prosecutor is ethically barred from talking, and DeDe is not going to trash herself. Grand jurors are not allowed to talk, and 99.99% of the time they don’t. This sounds like a Jason Wishert leak.
Anyone have a credible source for info about whether Terri moved Kiara into Kyron’s room? How about a source on the “my stepmother’s dead” comment?
IMHO, Harry Oakes is not credible. The $350k text was allegedly sent to Michael Cook, not DeDe. The other allegations are so extreme, considering the source here, I’m
not buying it.
Somebody must have mentioned or written about Kyron’s room before Harry Oakes. Did Dateline do any
filming inside the house?
Methinks this is Harry Oakes fighting like hell for more air time.
Less likely, this could be LE trying to peel away Terri’s last friends who refuse to talk by making Terri into this larger than life devil.
Blink are you on a talk show tonite?
Location yes, talks show this eve, no
B
There was a story on Msnbc that was old, but they had an update on it this weekend. It was about two sisters that met at a meeting about missing persons. Both had sisters that were missing presumed dead by their violent boyfriends. They were both trying to break away from them. Anyway they never were found, but everybody knows the b/f s did it, but the police would not take any interest in it. They said oh they will come home. There were no bodies so NO CRime, no hairs no nothing.
The update is a boyfriend of a missing girl in Ohio was convicted and no body was found, so the jury said there was so much violence, they cfound him guilty. This brings hope to those families where the men are hiding the bodies and getting away with it or woman hiding bodies.
Just read the Harry Oakes Myspace entry. Usually I’m pretty gullible, but to me most of it sounds like gossip. If the accounts from parents are true, I hope they have also been reported to the GJ. Regarding the removal of Kyron’s belongings and replacement with Kiara’s: I think if this were true, it would be just the kind of thing Kaine and Desiree would have mentioned in their Terri bashing. It is at least as damaging as what they have already said about her. They mentioned the failed LDTs, why not this?
However, the dogs’ death alert around the Hormans’ property is compelling. SAR is Harry’s field of expertise, so I tend to believe this more than the rest of the post.
Shelbar, very good question. Why was Terri not sexting on the bat phone if she knew her communications were being monitored? It may not have had text ability. Odd.
No Kyron yet another day
and now KOIN says months
maybe years. Pretty depressing
could one unhappy controlling 40 yr old woman
and one lonely unemployeed 40 something woman
really have planned all this
seems far out to me
mooo
Fellow Blinkers:
I would like to say something and I hope you hear it the way I intended.
I agree that it’s healthy and sometimes productive to ask questions and, when appropriate, to challenge information we think is suspicious or comes from a person or place of uncertainty.
Most of the posters here, with B’s input and guidance, come to this site religiously. We are trying to help figure out this appalling puzzle which involves a little boy’s life.
I am new to all this posting stuff and before I found Blink, I ran across several sites where people post all kinds of atrocious garbage about all the players in this nightmare as well as other posters.
Most of us have come to this site earnestly. We know what the goal is. Most of us sincerely want to help Blink, but ultimately LE, achieve that goal.
I don’t want us to lose sight of the goal