Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Attorneys Call Her A Suspect
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In court papers filed Wednesday, Bunch went further, noting that Terri Horman is a “de facto suspect” in the second-grader’s disappearance…”
Portland, OR- In a voluntary appearance in court yesterday for matters relating to the pending divorce motion by estranged husband Kaine; Terri Horman showed her face for the first time since the week after her stepson, Kyron, vanished from Skyline School.
Although Kaine Horman opted to be represented by his counsel Laura Rackner and not appear personally to protect himself emotionally, according to Rackner, Terri Horman braved the fray.
Arriving with attorneys Peter Bunch and Stephen Houze, the trio was immediately met and escorted by MCSO deputies in “the box” formation to the 5th floor courtroom where local media scurried in from behind. Within 45 minutes, Judge Meisenheimer ruled in Kaine Horman’s favor and granted his request that the issues of the mortgage-sized retainer, allegedly furnished by Terri to Houze and other distribution and custody issues will be heard in a hearing on October 7, denying her request to have the issues bifurcated.
During the proceeding, Bunch argued that his Client cannot properly litigate the divorce and custody actions currently because she is.”..unable to proceed in the ordinary course to protect her rights as to discovery, property division, support and, particularly, custody and parenting time issues.”
In fact, for the first time publicly, we learn a very important detail about the criminal investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
According to her counsel, who would certainly be “in the know”, Terri Horman has NOT been named a suspect by MCSO in Kyron’s case, but she is painfully aware she is one.
Loosely translated, a defacto suspect is an unofficially declared suspect, but for all intents and purposes is definitely the target of the investigative crosshairs.
The Microsaccade Moment
Microsaccades are tiny involuntary movements of the eye generally caused by visual fixation. The result on visual perception can cause the beholder to question if they are “really seeing what they are seeing.”
I had a few of those yesterday while analyzing footage of the day’s events in conjunction with known facts of this case.
They Are:
The MCSO guard detail dispatched at the courthouse assigned to Terri and counsel et al for a family court appearance. I have spoken with a few local family lawyers who do not wish to be identified, with a combined 26 years of practice. None have ever seen this practice in a similar matter in Multnomah County. Specifically, the deputies went inside the actual hearing and waited to escort the trio out the back.
During the hearing, there was not a syllable mentioned about the driving force behind the request for expedition of the case in the first place. The very substantive weight that was used to secure an emergency custody and restraining order, which remains uncontested to date: The Alleged Murder for Hire Plot. Why wouldn’t a family lawyer looking to abate the divorce case strike at the very merits on which the plaintiff’s arguments are based? The plaintiff in this case uses an almost one year old mfh plot allegation, which was not carried out, and no person has been declared a suspect or arrested, to control every filing to date and counsel does not refute the claims therein? What possible reason could that be?
A recent interview with Terri Horman’s son James, in which he states that his Mother cannot have a computer, cell phone, or leave her parents home in Roseburg.
Blink Analysis Editorial: Sealed Criminal Indictment OR Civil Commitment?
A Civil commitment, which would have had to been voluntary, such as a concern for Ms. Horman injuring herself, or some sort of dependency is a possibility, but a highly unlikely one considering she appeared in court yesterday.
Strictly my opinion of course, but based on my microsaccades, I think it is entirely possible that Terri Horman is under a pre-arrest indictment in the matter of the alleged murder for hire plot, or some derivative thereof.
It would certainly be unlikely that she could have been booked and granted bail without a leak, but a sealed indictment, which may or may not include a sealed arrest warrant, would follow Oregon’s propensity to use the grand jury as a form of “preliminary hearing.” In light of the fact that there is an ongoing criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance involving Federal, county and State investigative assets, it would be entirely appropriate.
The public would not know until such time as the indictment and any potentially attached writs are unsealed. Throw in the possibility there is always the chance that Clackamas County may be the charging county for such an offense and not Multnomah.
In which case, this is about to get very interesting. Recall MCSO chief Dan Staton saying Clackamas County Major Crimes Team is involved in the case? That would suggest at least part of a crime has been established in their jurisdiction. Rudy Sanchez resides in Clackamas County.
Clackamas County District Attorney John Foote and Criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze are well acquainted. You might say that Foote owes his very job to Houze in a way-
John Foote lost as the incumbent DA in 1996 to his own deputy district attorney Terese “Terry” Gustafson. Terry was in the middle of fighting an Oregon Bar complaint at the time which cleared her name just days before the inauguration.
The embattled DA did not take long to be the subject of more ethics violations including felony perjury charges for lying to a circuit judge about releasing the file of a juvenile that was ordered to be destroyed. Gustafson was disbarred.
Who filed the Bar complaint who also represented the accused boy who was subsequently acquitted?
Who was the prosecuting attorney for the Oregon Bar?
Stephen Houze.
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@aibohphobia On the flip side, I can see throwing the ring at my spouse if I were innocent and he suspected me in a fit of anger. Or even leaving it behind in a place he’d be sure to see it as a way of saying, “You’ve destroyed our marriage by this crazy thinking.”
But she seems too calculating for that. So I bet she took the ring with her if for no other reason than she could sell it. But also maybe to wear if she ever goes to court for Kyron’s disappearance.
@S I’m not a body language expert but I enjoy reading about it and I’ve seen two translations for eyes closed while talking–one is lying. The other is being very sure of their answer and not wanting objections. You really have to look at other signs to tell. But it’s good that he was shaking his head no–liars will sometimes unintentionally nod.
It’s MOO but I’m inclined to think it’s the “very sure” because he obviously would know if his daughter was sick before he left for work or the night before.
Plus, he was pretty quick to suspect her–most spouses would hem and haw, not wanting to think their spouse could do something like that. But I imagine knowing for sure that she was lying about something like that would be very convincing.
Here is a link to an article from June 2009 about a big drug bust at the Rock Creek Apartment complex in Hillsboro, which is not far from the first Fred Meyer store and is only a few miles Southwest of the Skyline area. It involved a lot of Mexican nationals, and states that one suspect was dating a stripper that introduced him to cocaine customers. This bust was the result of LE investigating drug trafficking in Washington and Clackamas Counties. It may be coincidental, but I am going to dig deeper and see what I can find. I’m also including links to another OL article about human trafficking in Portland and a link to customer reviews of RS Landscaping on the insider pages business web site.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/oregon_busts_huge_drug_cartel.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/01/human_trafficking_industry_thr.html
http://www.insiderpages.com/b/15246758898/rs-landscape-maintenance-canby
FWIW: background from a 2004 Portland Tribune article, about Phil Stanford (someone at BOC said he’s the expert on the murder of Francke, who was investingating longstanding internal corruption in Oregon DOJ dating from the 1950s, IIRC–I posted that here earlier. Stanford left Oregonian, continued working as a private investigator(wish he were in on Ky and related matters), wrote a book, Portland Confidential, then P. Trib got into business and hired Stanford.
“In his first three years at the Trib, Stanford hardly wrote about Francke. That all changed this summer, however, when WW reporter Nigel Jaquiss forced former Gov. Goldschmidt to admit he’d sexually abused a 14-year-old when he was mayor of Portland, a situation that continued for three years.
This long-hidden statutory rape renewed Stanford’s interest in unearthing Oregon’s secret history, particularly since he always wondered why Goldschmidt seemed so unwilling to investigate Francke’s death.”
http://wweek.com/story.php?story=5772
@ lizzygoat-Tahnks!
@ TBZ-Thanks for the welcome. Yes this case is tugging real hard at me…yes he has a very engaging happy smile. A very handsome child and seemingly beautiful inside.
Well, well, FBI was investigating the Francke murder and/or its coverup (?) as well:
“The Michael Francke murder investigation was described as the largest in Oregon history at the time. The number of investigators fluctuated between 30 and six. The media coverage was intense.
Former Salem state Rep. Chuck Sides says his contacts at the Oregon State Police told him then-Gov. Neil Goldschmidt was putting them under intense pressure to make a bust and “bring closure” to the case.
Frank Gable’s name did not surface as a suspect until eight months after the crime, when the murder investigation was at a standstill. At that time, according to documents reported by Phil Stanford and Jim Redden at the Portland Tribune, Goldschmidt was opposing a broader investigation into prison corruption, including involvement of the FBI.”
http://wweek.com/story.php?story=5772
BTW, I know the articles I posted are “old news” to some, especially those in Oregon. I think they are helpful to newer posters and others that live in other areas, as they lend insight into how very huge the drug and child trafficking problems in Oregon are.
Beejay, you rock!
I’am sure LE knows exactly where TH was, if she had her laptop with her, if the baby was there, what time she really got home, who she was involved with, if the picture was photo shopped, etc. My grandfather was CHIEF OF POLICE in Indiana, he used to say..if i could only spill my guts, you could figure this case out! They will arrest her when they have their ducks in a row with compelling evidence….SHE JUST ISN’T AS SMART AS SHE THOUGHT! COME HOME KYRON, MANY PRAYERS FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY!
i
@Stars says:
September 3, 2010 at 9:40 am
“Blink,
So, Kiara was at the FM store with SM.
I thought that Kiara was NOT at the science fair.
No parent or anyone has said that they saw Kiara at Science Fair.
So, where did SM pick Kiara up? This could have been part of Terri’s
plan.????? Why would Kiara be with SM Terri at store but NOT at the Science Fair?
Does not make sense to me.
Or me
B”
If Terri had someone else in the truck, that person could have been watching Kiara. And Terri could have said to Kyron, “We are picking up Mr. X to watch Kiara because she is sick and so that I can spend time with you.”
From on of her emails released by KATU: “I didn’t just drop him off, I spent time with him, took pictures and he was in safe hands I thought as I watched him walk down the hall.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html
She was being defensive of people who wondered how you could drop off a kid without making sure he got all the way to class. But, I always wondered about this email juxtaposed to Kaine’s saying “he was dropped off” in his email to Intel (which I was forwarded in my school district email) She should have just stuck with “just dropped off”, but instead wanted credit for making the rounds at the Science Fair with him.
@S: I think our personal experiences give us a frame of reference by which to understand this case. For example, I know several controlling, selfish people, but none of them has made a child disappear. And I work with kids grades K-4, but last year I had more second grade boys than any other age or gender. I get how vulnerable, yet challenging boys that age can be.
Something I haven’t heard said, but I wonder if some of spoiled, selfish behavior could have come from being an only child. I apologize in advance for offending anyone. My first college roommate, a friend from high school, was an only child. Though a kind, creative and intelligent person, she just didn’t think about things like taking turns, splitting anything evenly, or what others would want. My mother drilled into my sister and me the concept of fairness and the Golden Rule. She still strives to be fair with her grandchildren. So, to live with someone who didn’t even consider these things first thing after leaving home was eye opening.
newsatfive,
Thank you for your response. I should clarify. I wasn’t suggesting the bat phones were purchased for sexting. I was only wondering if the sexting was done on a bat phone or phones. Do you have a link for when the phones were purchased and who had them? Do we know for sure that three women had them or that they were purchased the day Kyron went missing? I have not seen all of the articles related to the case although I try to keep up.
It is interesting you bring up the vigil video. I have seen video/photos of MC at the vigil and the expression I see on his face seems off to me given the circumstances. As you noted he is in a room full of crying people. My opinion only of course.
Here is a video that contains clips of the vigil. There is a short clip of MC toward the end at about -0:43.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/96450854.html?tab=video
It looks like there is also a very brief clip of MC at -0:53.
Does anyone else think that given that MC has an acting background and his friendship with Kaine that he may have been a plant? That maybe he and Kaine cooked up the idea of him texting with TH in the hopes of getting her to reveal something damning? Or maybe he took it upon himself? I’m just thinking that he may have thought he had some acting skills good enough to be able to either come on to TH or perhaps respond to some overtures she may have made towards him in the past in order to get her to reveal something. That may explain why MC and KH are still Facebook friends. Just MOO, as always.
@ aibohphobia – I looked at your link to the wedding ring photo and found several more in that same album. Definitely dark band and easy to spot. Maybe she left it, sold it, pawned it, hated it, lost it – and Houze said wear wedding ring, so she used one of the other 2 from previous marriages. Kaine is the only one who would have known and he wasn’t there – doubtful he would have looked at her if he’d been there and she had the long sleeves anyway.
I realize this sounds a little 007, but humor me:
I am starting to suspect TH got somehow (drug/money/sex/hitman related) involved with someone (landscaper/other) with connections to the russian mafia and Kyron’s disappearance is/was a message to her that she better behave (pay debt, keep promises, keep mouth shut, whatever). This theory ties a lot of loose ends for me. Primarily, while I believe TH opened the door to Kyron’s disappearance, I still don’t think she planned it. I think Kyron was grabbed by someone at the school and if the glasses were left in the mailbox, I don’t think it was a ransom message. It was a clear statement to TH that next time it will be more serious–it will be your own child.
I am not one for theorizing like this, but I suspect the delay we are seeing in this investigation has a lot to do with catching a bigger fish than TH.
Phil Stanford, writer Portland Tribune NOT an honest forthright writer. (can I say that, I don’t know all the rules?) In 1982 he wrote several articles about some issues involving Portland Police. I called him and told him who to look at, and what questions to ask so he would get the true story. He didn’t do it. Don’t believe anything he writes because of it. The whole story is long but involves another sociopathic individual that Mr. Stanford was supporting at the time. Stanford had his own motivation for writing the story the way he did, no respect for him at all after that.
Idahogal says “Here is a link .. a big drug bust at the Rock Creek Apartment complex in Hillsboro ..”
Oh, don’t get me started on this. The rumors is that there is a Mexican tar hub extremely close to the school.
On the side, I saw a man that looked like KH driving the RDSQRL car this morning. Maybe he got the car back. I only wish he could get Ky back instead.
I need to find the link, but I only have 1 second here…wasn’t it a few days after the 4th that both TH and KH were going to the gym, encouraged I guess by LE? And wasn’t the first PC a few days after the 4th as well? Those days may line up…….maybe giving credence to the poster who advised no ring because of working out prior.
To quote Blink early in the investigation “Without a Doubt, and I believe they have informed same that he is a suspect.
B”. I noticed that Blink had indicated a HE (male) suspect and cannot separate myself from the horrible thought that this involves sexual abuse of some nature as there was a lot of references made early on about Timur Vandykes. One other question that was never answered was if there was any relation of Steve Moulton and Terri Moulton as he lives in Portland and shows as being married to a young lady with the last name of “Vandyke” (no “e”) as in Timur’s name. I feel that the level of involvement of so many enforcement organizations and the veil of secrecy of LE indicates a much more sinister situation than simply an angry stepmom hurting her stepson. Please make Kyron represent the good in people (by trying to bring justice to this case) and some measure of closure for his family. I have lost a child to murder and nothing will heal the pain, but being able to lay them to rest does allow a bit of closure for the family. HOLD OUR CHILDREN TIGHTLY AND LET US NEVER FORGET KYRON.
could TH have left kiara in the truck because she was sleeping? i’m thinking that kiara was not sick with an earache, that was an excuse or ploy. if she did have kiara in the truck, that would explain how she was with TH later in the morning. also, i go to the gym everyday. i check in at the front desk but no one monitors me once i am there; i can leave unnoticed at any time. so, i believe TH went to the gym only to document her whereabouts at that certain time of the day and then left as soon as she could do so, unnoticed. i don’t believe she had any intention of working out that day.
Very interesting posts today
thanks to all
I think when Desiree said Terri was a actress, it
kind of set me into thinking about things in a new way,
not really letting her off, just thinking
Prayers for Kyron
Kaine met at Skyline today and spoke briefly afterward.
http://www.kgw.com/video?id=102148389&sec=547647
Even in “paradise”…
Largest case of human trafficking in U.S. history.
http://www.kitv.com/news/24866750/detail.html
Of course, this means modern history.
@ s says
I read your post about your friend of 10 years
very interesting and we often do not really know
other people happens to me also
because I look for the good in people
what I find odd about this case is no nieghbors
or anyone seems to think the Hormans were
just a great couple like in so many cases
where people say how surprised they are
etc etc
Kaylee says:
September 3, 2010 at 12:21 pm
“Something I haven’t heard said, but I wonder if some of spoiled, selfish behavior could have come from being an only child.”
—————–
imho, it is much more pathological than being an only child. Seems people are wired a certain way, no matter the size of the family…Nature vs.nurture? The good ole debate…That said, I have seen an NPD with 3 sibs, yet competitive with the them -”wanted to win all adulation from Daddy, be the best at all sports, teacher’s pet, etc.” -always leaving the sibs at the starting block and at the back of the class -that was just her nature…
Do we know for certain that Rudy owned a white truck? Anyone?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/day_three_search_continues_hun.html
melissab says:
September 3, 2010 at 9:40 am
Thank you very much. I really think that the phones, even if bought June 4, were to be used for friends of TH so that her cell didn’t miss a call because this was thought of as a kidnapping in the beginning. I’m sure she needed someone to talk to, she prolly had the evil eye(Maloika?) on her from moment one as the last person to see Ky.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Even if Terri needed one for the reason you mentioned above, it would not explain why any of her friends would need to purchase special phones using fake names. The fact that they were purchased specifically to AVOID leaving call log records and having LE hear what they were discussing makes it highly suspect on Terri’s end, even if she managed to convince the friends that her intention behind using them was harmless….JMO
@ tracylee says:
September 3, 2010 at 11:20 am
@aibohphobia On the flip side, I can see throwing the ring at my spouse if I were innocent and he suspected me in a fit of anger. Or even leaving it behind in a place he’d be sure to see it as a way of saying, “You’ve destroyed our marriage by this crazy thinking.”
But she seems too calculating for that. So I bet she took the ring with her if for no other reason than she could sell it. But also maybe to wear if she ever goes to court for Kyron’s disappearance.”
Good points, Tracy. I thought that the ring was a different ring because she possibly destroyed the first one in a fit of anger. My mom did that once, throwing her ring in the fire. So, for whatever reason, she is wearing a different ring now.
Here is the KATU story and Anna Song interview with Tyler Kessinger from July 14th:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html
Of note is the fact he says he saw Ky in the gym with some friends looking at science fair stuff and that LE asked him about the white truck, which he also saw. So…where was TH at this point?
@ twinkletoes, glad you are back – voice of reason
wonder there are Titch, Jack/Jackie Bauer? where are you ppl?
@Shelly says: September 3, 2010 at 3:38 am
“Newsatfive you said: I can prove that one, and it floored me. There was some very specific information on a privately owned, commercial (as in paid) database of public records at the time of Kyron’s disappearance and for some time thereafter, but this same information was removed, altered, and replaced with bogus crap.”
@ Shelly says: “Can you elaborate on the above? and do you have a link to the vigil?”
@ Blink says: “No she cannot on the database”
Shelly and Blink:
I most certainly can provide the documentation of the database changes. I just don’t think Blink would want it posted to the site, as it includes personal identifiers of people who are parents, relatives, friends, etc., who LE spoke to in relation to this case.
The database has nothing to do with the 911 calls. It is a public records aggregator. I’ll send the documentation to Blink for review.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@ beejay says: September 3, 2010 at 11:31 am
“This long-hidden statutory rape renewed Stanford’s interest in unearthing Oregon’s secret history, particularly since he always wondered why Goldschmidt seemed so unwilling to investigate Francke’s death.”
http://wweek.com/story.php?story=5772
This is Willamette Week’s conjecture on the subject. Stanford may not have known specifically why Goldschmidt was unwilling to investigate, but he always suspected there was some kind of blackmail going on. No link. This is from my personal knowledge of Stanford.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@beejay says: September 3, 2010 at 11:46 am
“Well, well, FBI was investigating the Francke murder and/or its coverup (?) as well”
No, the FBI was not involved. Goldschmidt would not allow it.
Kaine reassures Skyline parents about school being safe and so on…..while his OWN CHILD IS STILL missing!!!! – how ironic is that? of all the people!
http://www.kgw.com/news/Changes-at-Skyline-after-Kyron-disappearance-102148389.html
“Kaine … assured parents their kids would be safe.”
“It’s going to be tough, but I think what they got planned for the first day and the procedures and things that they’re working on, I think it’s outstanding,” Kaine said. “I think they’ve made some big adjustments and it was a safe school before, and now it’s probably going to be one of the safest schools in the state.”
am i missing something?
am i not understanding american culture and things people do/say in this country?
(i’m naturalized citizen and often wonder if things are lost in translation), sigh…
RE: purchase of “bat” phones discussion. Wait, why are we discussing this topic? Was it that someone asserted that phones were purchased on the fly on June 4th? I see no evidence of that but believe they were purchased weeks later. The reason for the phones was that they needed AT&T reception…Verizon didn’t work. Who wants to drive up there and check that one out! More importantly, it was for their girly-girl privacy and maybe a little girly-guy privacy…To me the most important detail about the bat phones is that false names were used to obtain them. This could indicate intent to aid and abet/obstruct justice…i.e. felony charges for DS and the mystery friend. And then, how deep does their providing, “assistance” go? And how deep was it up to and on June 4th? I don’t give a rats’ a*s which phones they sexted on…what does it matter. They got caught doing it either which way!
Link about phones: http://www.katu.com/news/100161574.html
“The phones were purchased after Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, moved out of the family’s home.” (Which means AFTER June 26th). Yep -purchased by mystery friend who has since bailed on TH, and DS also purchased one…such a good, good friend! Article goes on to say, “What remains unclear is why two additional prepaid phones were purchased at another store in downtown Portland the next day under the same fake name used at the Lloyd Center. “
#30 S says:
September 3, 2010 at 12:05 am
Kaylee says:
September 2, 2010 at 12:40 pm
I still wonder about Rudy’s friends and associate. Hell, I wonder about Rudy! Where is he? What does he look like? Does he have lots of relatives in the area? Does he go to his native country to visit relatives often, seldom, never?
* * * * * * * * * *
AGREE: What is going on with Rudy and his friends and associates? Any Blink inside info on his testimony with the GJ?
@ twinkletoes says:
September 3, 2010 at 10:14 am
I just keep getting the feeling we are all chasing the wrong rabbit. Not saying TH is innocent of anything. I just keep thinking there is a very, very large piece to this puzzle that remains undiscovered, at least by us.
*******************************************************************
I so agree with you.. This is why I read but don’t comment often because I thought I was the only one that felt that way.. Thank you for putting it out there .. I hope that this comes to an end very soon..
Kaylee says:
September 3, 2010 at 12:21 pm
@Stars says:
September 3, 2010 at 9:40 am
“Blink,
So, Kiara was at the FM store with SM.
I thought that Kiara was NOT at the science fair.
No parent or anyone has said that they saw Kiara at Science Fair.
So, where did SM pick Kiara up? This could have been part of Terri’s
plan.????? Why would Kiara be with SM Terri at store but NOT at the Science Fair?
Does not make sense to me.
Or me
B”
Here’s how it makes sense to me. It’s possible LE knows Kiara WAS at the science fair and is keeping it quiet, but so many people have talked, it seems unlikely. Why bother?
And it’s possible someone else sat in the truck with Kiara. It is illegal in Oregon to leave a child (or children) under the age of 10 alone in a situation which can put them at risk of harm (car, home, or anywhere else), so I think there is an unacceptable risk that someone (especially with children of their own) would notice a toddler alone in a vehicle (possibly awake and crying).
It does make sense to me that she either had someone in the car with Kiara or dropped Kiara off on the way to school because school was where she needed to be focused and alert, visible and on a tight schedule (no time for diaper changes or fussiness). She planned to continue on with Kiara and the other adult, or to pick Kiara up after leaving the school (probably before the first FM – but possibly before the second FM) because Kiara was part of her alibi and would no longer be a distraction to her thinking or her planned schedule.
Perhaps Andrea Leckey saw her as calm because Terri had rehearsed everything over and over in her mind for days and thought it was completed as planned. [Decades ago, I had to secretly leave an abusive husband, taking my 2 little kids, and was "heart in throat" with all the preparation - but when I hit the road and knew it worked, I unexpectedly burst out singing," When peace like a river attendeth my soul . . ." (old hymn).]
If something went wrong, as people have suggested, I don’t think she knew about it until after she saw Andrea – she was still covering herself, and did not expect the time to need an alibi would be extended beyond the second FM. I don’t think Kyron was with her in the truck (in any condition, at either store) because you’d think being away from the truck would be a huge risk – another adult could be spotted, an awake kid might get out and come in, someone could break into the truck to steal something and find a body, or steal a container from the back. If she were found to be with Kyron, it would mean the end of the plan and alibi.
I think I said this before, but there was a recall of some (McNeil)children’s pain medications that went on for months. In May of 2010, we had to dump all we had and couldn’t find any cleared lots of the meds until we went to Target and bought generic versions of the Tylenol, Motrin. and Benedryl. Don’t know what she was looking for, but I believe it’s possible she couldn’t find it – and Houze will know that, for sure.
I have opinions about what went wrong, as others do, but this post is just about “when” Terri found out, not “what”.
twinkletoes and nana2,
You’re not alone. I don’t believe Terri is guilty of this crime, not even peripherally. I believe she’s made other mistakes and has perhaps committed other crimes, and is guilty of extremely poor judgment, but I don’t believe she’s guilty of abducting and murdering Kyron, nor do I believe she has any knowledge of who abducted Kyron and likely murdered him.
I’m not a Terri defender, either; it’s simply that there is little evidence, and much of what is being used to convict Terri in the court of public opinion is contradictory and weak at best.
I’m going back into hiding now.
Yes
B
I definitely think Terri could have picked up someone on the way to the science fair to stay in car with Kiara. LE was asking for any info as to whether a second “adult” was seen near/in the truck the morning of June 4th. Obviously someone Kyron was familiar with. But who would that person be????
Angela1981 says:
September 3, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Does anyone else think that given that MC has an acting background and his friendship with Kaine that he may have been a plant? That maybe he and Kaine cooked up the idea of him texting with TH in the hopes of getting her to reveal something damning? Or maybe he took it upon himself? I’m just thinking that he may have thought he had some acting skills good enough to be able to either come on to TH or perhaps respond to some overtures she may have made towards him in the past in order to get her to reveal something. That may explain why MC and KH are still Facebook friends. Just MOO, as always.
Angela, yes, I just checked their FB accounts this morning again. I’ve always wondered the same thing! MC is not hiding and it appears they are still friends. If this is the case, he is one hell of a friend, because he took a lot of heat for it. I think it’s totally possible.
Angela1981 and Idahogal,
Regarding MC and him possibly trying to help, you could be right, I certainly hope so. Time will tell.
Re: amychika says:
September 3, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Hi Amychika. I don’t think you’re missing anything in translation.
Kaine said. “I think they’ve made some big adjustments and it was a safe school before, and now it’s probably going to be one of the safest schools in the state.”
Ksine is probably right; it was a safe school before and is safer now. To me, I think he knows the school was safe, Terri was/is dangerous. Schools can’t protect kids who are endangered within the family.
My own opinion is that our schools are compelled to provide increasing protection as our society becomes increasingly preditory of children. As our schools increase protective measures, the children are more cloistered. The more cloisrered the schools become, the less education occurs.
Do Americans think our kids are safe? Probably not. (Aside from one sociopathic neighbor) EVERY parent I know struggles mightily with trying to balance their childern’s safety with age appropriate independance.
amychika says: “Kaine reassures Skyline parents about school being safe and so on…..while his OWN CHILD IS STILL missing!!!!”
I think Kaine was trying to offer some reassurance and comfort to Skyline parents as they have tried to do for him. I believe he is sad that anything about his family situation caused others to fear for their children, and that he really cares about the other children as well. It appears he sincerely trusts the steps the school has taken.
Hopefully, that helps you to understand how I view what Kaine said.
Re; Madilu says:
September 3, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Thanks for posting that link on the phones. I had become confused about the date purchased. Nice catch.
amychika says:
September 3, 2010 at 4:50 pm
“Kaine … assured parents their kids would be safe. Am i missing something? Am i not understanding american culture and things people do/say in this country?”
I don’t think you’re missing anything. I think Kaine’s public “endorsement” of the school’s safety is his way of saying he doesn’t think the school was responsible for the disappearance of his child.
I think his comments reveal a lot about who he thinks is responsible, and possibly how little (if anything) the school could have done to protect his child from this person.
Thanks Blink!
@blue, twinkletoes, nana2:
For a long time I thought twink and I were alone out on a limb, but it seems there are more of us now of a similar opinion.
Twink: why Russian? any particular rationale for that?
When we get into gangs and organized crime–and I go there occasionally–my thought is that TH would be flat out dead by now if she knew anything. Plus, if B. is right and it’s a sex crime against Ky, how would that part tie in with just a warning to TH? Why the sex crime and not just (ugh) abduction/murder???
@kaylee
i have an only child and your concerns are on my mind a LOT. i don’t think your comments are offensive. my son does NOT share well and he is 14 so i go out of my way to present situations to him to teach him how to share since he doesn’t have an inherent situation to learn to do so. it is a struggle. we just had 2 foreign students living with us for a month. one of the kids just was constantly helping himself to my son’s laptop, xbox, the works. he would try passive-aggressive tactics to not allow him to use those things, then wanted to escape and go hibernate at his dad’s. then i have dad on the phone telling me how unhappy our poor son is with these kids in the house. i said, “i know! that’s why they’re here!!!!” and we’ll do it again every summer, maybe get a year-long live in, if he isn’t capable of learning the lessons. i allowed him to be angry. he has a right to be whatever he is feeling, but at the same time, i spent a lot of time compassionately teaching him why it was good to learn how to share and to also allow himself to not just give away the farm, to learn some skills in being up front and assertive, to share with boundaries.
i need a drink thinking about it. hard lesson cuz the kid WAS really annoying to boot! lol
Wall St. Journal @ Feb 1, 2010 had an article titled, “FBI’s Reliance on the Private Sector Has Raised Some Privacy Concerns”.
“WASHINGTON — Big Brother isn’t gone. He’s just been outsourced.
After surveillance scandals in the 1960s and 1970s, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and other federal law-enforcement authorities curbed their file-keeping on U.S. citizens. But in the past several years, the FBI, the Internal Revenue Service and other agencies have started buying troves of personal data from the private sector.”
When govt. and business get in bed together, and govt. becomes a substantial source of income for an industry, then we have an industry that is subject to “requests” from their big customer. Including altering data if it is an information industry. And when those govt. customers are law enforcement–whoa. I really hate that entire situation. There’s no way to avoid it now; it’s the “military-industrial complex” for this generation.
So, yes, I’m outraged. No, I’m not surprised.
Sorry, I forgot the link to my Big Brother thing; it’s
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB987107477135398077.html
@ beejay, twinkletoes, blue
IMO the reason why TH remains so stoic in all of this is because she either cares very deeply for the person involved with Kyron’s disappearance & is willing to take the fall for it to protect them or she is so afraid of the person involved with Kyron’s disappearance that she remains silent from fear.. Just an opinion.. But there are others in this child’s disappearance that don’t exactly leave me with the warm & fuzzies..
Back to reading..