Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued  ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

 

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher,  she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court.  Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley,  who have since refused all local media requests,  would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide.  While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously,  her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph,  but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place,  Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher  as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.  Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then,  why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher:  I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons.  I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with.  He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc.  I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name.   As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order,  she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that?  I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No.  I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th.    I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue.  So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher:  They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding.  It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June,  and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March.  So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first,  I think that they really believed I was involved,  and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was,  and my vehicle never left, nor did I.  They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case,  they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect.  I never felt that way,  but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever,  but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did.  To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning.    I would ask like who do you mean,  because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this.  I was scared and it turned out it was good reason.   I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice?  Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that.  People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies.  I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative.  In fact,  Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly.  So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting.  I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No,  do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher:  I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house.  Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it,  yes, him.  Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through,  and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you.  If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information,  I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back ,  considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work?  What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney,  but to answer your question as to my opinion,  I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction.  After more thought,  and other conversations,  I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible.   What is your opinion on it?

Stoy:  I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece.  Again, not wanting to temper your opinions  as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did.  Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion.  I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman.  Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they?  You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right.  The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor.  Allow me to rephrase please.  Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher:  Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ .  I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids.  I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing”  and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well,  impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct?  That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc.  And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury.  But yes, that is what she told me.  I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her.  To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement .  I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case,  but yes,  they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are.  But that is my assumption.

Stoy:  Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s  service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home?  Spicher:  I am not sure about the exclusive use part,  I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok.  Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory.  By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy:  How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request.   She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids.  I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok,  understood,  we will get back to that.  I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.”  Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher:  I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005,  and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine,  I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help.  Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell,  Terri had a lot of drama,  and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know,  we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher:  Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention.  It was either during that call or at the lunch.  Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it.  What did she say

Spicher:  She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”.  She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her.  She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller.  The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him.  I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from?  Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person?  Sort of like…  she gets approval to remain anonymous,  she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that.  Except and again,  we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out.  The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact.  From what I recall,  I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood,  so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day,  but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes,  I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice.  I don’t think so because she did not ask for any.  So then what?  Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy,  and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day.   If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember,  that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok.  Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher:    Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed,  it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing.   She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office.   We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what?  Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher:  I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served,  in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le,  but it would surprise me.  Terri was always very family centric.  She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing,  this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper.   He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting”  and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI,  who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s  contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

 

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years.  The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier.  As a strong argument for the trickle down effect,  Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle,  was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report.   A former Sheriff,   Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications.  The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place.  Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact,  Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell.   O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week,  it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan,  the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids  a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption  tipping other’s off  in the alleged ring ,  Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso,  Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested.  The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike.   The specifics of which were sealed by the court.  It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids?  How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson,   through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest.  He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

 On June 3rd, 2010,  approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance,  Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury,  in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden.  Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products.  Worden has never been charged.

 Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

 

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known  to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

 

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin,  a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

 

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

 

 

From Buff To Puff

 

In contrast to Jackson,  although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement,  William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon”  cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote,  “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

 

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way.  Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client,  was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

 

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case,  sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well.  Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question.  Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason.  The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

 

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke  filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby,  Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith  for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot.   In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy.  The suit is pending.  A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion.  Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

 

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against  Traverso were dismissed  this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation.  Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold  illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids,  but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source,  an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…”   “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…”  The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment,  Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch,  Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

 

More Questions Than Answers..

Following several hours of interviews with  DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?

Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.

She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”

She was not.

Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself.  Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.

Through Spicher,  Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness”  which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc,  Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th.  His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.

Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought.  Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.

 

Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada  Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous.  Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom,  to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.

To her knowledge,  there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.

In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.

 

Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:

“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”

 

Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators.  One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer,  at their own expense  The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had  agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.

“…  This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.

 

The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”

 

I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange.  She had.  I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.

Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion.  Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.

I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home.  She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.

Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?

Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.

Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper?  I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen,  and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.

Spicher:  No, it wasn’t.  Kaine bought it.  It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property.   I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home.  I  mean, like cleaning the gutters,  cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing.  To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.

Stoy: With a baby,  7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that?  No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help.  I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.

Spicher:  No,  Terri  had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children.  I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money.  I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage.  One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that.  I believe the other was the landscaper.

Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.

Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that?  But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.

Stoy:  Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?

Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].

Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement.  Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you.  Are you angry about that?

Spicher:  O my no.  That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine.  I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can..   I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them.   I really pray that Kyron will be found,  I choose to put my energy into hope for that.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch,  Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday,  Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon,  a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

 

 

Jacqueline Beaufort,  Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

 

 

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4,397 Comments

  1. Rose says:

    TY GH.
    The Judge undertook this hearing without the Court Jacket containing his last ruling,
    and asked the parties to help him out? What kind of Clerk does he have?
    What kind of preparation does he do? I take it neither parent attended.

  2. Rose says:

    @TRuth. Well if a white truck is known to be “friendly” to LE,
    I would suspect it’s a goody wagon.

  3. Rose says:

    I feel about RSE like I feel about Cynthia Baldwin.

  4. Rose says:

    @Amys. wrt “At no point in these documents is there evidence of hatred for Terri because she is a woman. There is no evidence of Kaine feeling internally weak, though you may believe that to be true. ”
    Nor did I say that.
    You have been arguing in support of Engel’s statement that Terri’s silence (or litigation conduct) are holding back Kaine from presenting his case. I offered the opinion that was legal poppycock (trying for a nicer word than CR..),
    & a mysogenistic POV wrt wife. I am comfortable when we differ respectfully, but not with misquoting me.

    Fair.
    B

  5. grasshopper says:

    here are my notes for today’s surprise hearing. clearly the rush was to get it done in 2013. I was sure Engel said that child support would be dealt with later but KGW tells us otherwise. probably subject to revision when final custody arrangements are made?

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/Surprise%20hearing%2012-31%20.pdf

  6. Sammy says:

    Too snarky?

  7. erose says:

    It very well could be that house $ + truck $ + lawn mower $ + 27% pension + 6K stock = 73% pension + 1 mustang.

  8. T. Ruth says:

    grasshopper says:
    December 31, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Thank you grasshopper.

  9. Blink: If SZ did it at TH’s behest, then where would we be?
    Zero I guess.

    Where would we be if she did not?
    Where we are.
    Zero.
    B

  10. Amys Sister says:

    I didn’t argue her silence held Kaine back. I said I agreed with Engel that it shouldn’t. And I disagreed that the POV was mysogentistic (which means hatred of women). I never misquoted you, that I can see.

    You said: “@Amys. I call it a mysogenistic mindset when a man who is perfectly free to go forward & affirmatively acommplish his goal, without any barriers, blames his internally felt weaknesses on his wife–saying she presents a barrier due to invisible chains that bind when those chains simply don’t exist.”

  11. Amys Sister says:

    RedRose says:

    December 31, 2013 at 6:54 pm
    _____

    Seems fair. Probably the amount Terri was awarded in Kaine’s retirement plan offsets the value in the house and tractor.

  12. grasshopper says:

    Being on the Terri is Innocent team (because of lack of evidence to the contrary) I wan to wish Terri, Blink and all blinkster a very happy happy and wonderful 2014!

    Happy New Year grasshopper!
    B

  13. Amys Sister says:

    erose says:

    December 31, 2013 at 9:31 pm
    ____

    That’s my guess, too, erose.

    Seems the attorneys and Horman’s agreed they’ve had enough media attention regarding their divorce and they wanted to at least keep this part agreeable to both parties.

    I’d do the same in their position.

  14. SuzieQ says:

    http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/horman.pdf

    Page 12: Kaine has pending criminal charges against him. Hmmmmmm……

  15. grasshopper says:

    Mom3.0 says GH, what law is it that you think has been thrown out the window in this case?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    I take it from your name that you have children. Imagine for a moment that LE took all 3 children from you. You are accused of something but they present no evidence, no charges. they intimate evidence but say that it is privileged, that your attorney cannot inquire into it. There was no investigation of your conduct with your children, only you can never see them again. They are given to someone else. There are multiple hearings on this but the judge rules that this information, the reason for the separation of you from your children, is protected, not subject to inquiry, but that it counts. It is true.

    Or imagine that LE tells someone you are responsible for a crime. that person tells media who covers it over and over. you are stalked and hated universally. there are no charges or evidence but no matter. You cannot work or go outside your home. People stand outside your home and cry for your arrest. No evidence, no arrest, no charges to answer, but everybody believes you are guilty because LE seems to think so. Your life is permanently on hold. nothing you can do about it.

    there are laws that should protect you from these events, but the laws currently don’t count. I know you think that this could never happen to you, but now, given what we have seen, it could happen to you.

  16. Rose says:

    @TRuth. wrt ” It sounds like Terri is willing to let Kaine have custody of her daughter, pending visitation agreements. Is it normal to order the non-custodial parent to carry a life insurance policy on the child? (That kind of scares me, with all death threats that woman has had against her.)”

    Yes life ins for the parent having a child support obligation is normal.
    standard boilerplate.
    Not a matter of willing.
    Visitation/custody is the posture KH & his RO and
    Judge Kantor have left her in. Nothing Bunch could do now.
    Support to parent having kid is boilerplate, just a form filled in,

  17. Rose says:

    reaffirming my opinion of Engel’s “allegation” that Terri’s assertion of her 5th Amendment right has held Kaine back from putting forth his “case”.

    ” I call it a mysogenistic mindset when a man who is perfectly free to go forward & affirmatively acommplish his goal, without any barriers, blames his internally felt weaknesses on his wife–saying she presents a barrier due to invisible chains that bind when those chains simply don’t exist.”

    Apparently he found a way forward by settling. To avoid what?

  18. RedRose says:

    Does a divorce in this year, 2013, relate in any way to year-end and income tax/dependent, etc., status?

    In other words, if they waited until 2014 (even Jan 2) to end the relationship, would that affect their 2014 status?

  19. Rose says:

    2013 deadline, grasshopper? ty for notes.
    taxes & deductions played a role then imo.
    perhaps trial was set for Jan 2 in part to prompt a 2013 settlement.
    pity kh didn’t do this in 2011 as Bunch offered.
    But 2 more years allowed him to shelter $35,000 more in Intel’s 401 k Savings plan

    Intel has plenty info on 401k Retirement, to which Intel contributed 6% of salary last year
    versus 401k Savings to which employee could put in 17,500/yr.

  20. Venetia says:

    @SusieQ, good catch. I have to wonder what those charges could be on page 12?

    http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/horman.pdf

    @Blink,

    Question: Is there any way that TH could get the terms of the divorce modified? Perhaps due to future extenuating circumstances?

    Not without “cause” which is listed in the agreement. Even if she needed to enforce something in general each provision stands alone and “survives” the others if you will.
    B

  21. Venetia says:

    Thanks for the answer Blink! Seems there could be a need for a change or 3 down the road…depending…

    Another question? Are the “pending criminal charges” filed and pending trial or pending being filed?

    TIA

    I am not seeing any charges filed anywhere, but if in fact that line in the agreement is correct and not a typo, I will be glad to add my speculation.
    B

  22. lizzy says:

    SuzieQ says:
    January 1, 2014 at 12:56 am
    http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/horman.pdf

    Page 12: Kaine has pending criminal charges against him. Hmmmmmm……
    ————————————-

    Pending criminal charges with potential related financial claims by Terri. Hmmmm,indeed.

    Happy New Year to Blink and all!

  23. lizzy says:

    Venetia says:
    January 1, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    . . .

    I am not seeing any charges filed anywhere, but if in fact that line in the agreement is correct and not a typo, I will be glad to add my speculation.
    B
    ————————

    At first, I thought that Petitioner and Respondent might be switched in the sentence. But there is also the “him,” requiring a continuity of error/misinterpretation.

    Yep. Rose has that right.
    B

  24. lizzy says:

    lizzy says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    January 1, 2014 at 12:22 pm
    Venetia says:
    January 1, 2014 at 12:08 pm

    . . .

    I am not seeing any charges filed anywhere, but if in fact that line in the agreement is correct and not a typo, I will be glad to add my speculation.
    B
    ————————

    At first, I thought that Petitioner and Respondent might be switched in the sentence. But there is also the “him,” requiring a continuity of error/misinterpretation.

    ———————————–

    Although, it seems that leaving the sentence as is, except substituting “her” for “him” would also result in some possible valid interpretations.

  25. grasshopper says:

    The sentence reads: “This release is not intended to apply to any claim Respondent may have against Petitioner related to THE PENDING criminal charges AGAINST HIM.” (caps mine)

    LE through media has said over and over and over again that nobody has been charged in the Kyron disappearance, that Terri has been the focus of investigation but has never been named suspect or even person of interest. it’s their mantra to CYA. So whatever suspicions they might have could not be called pending criminal charges against T, in the event “him” was a typo.

    so assuming that it is not a typo, what does it mean? I tried googling pending criminal charges of course. not that helpful.

    Two things stand out. THE criminal charges. not possible criminal charges, future criminal charges or any criminal charges but THE CRIMINAL CHARGES
    as though some formal accusationS (plural) have already been made but not (don’t know the word) dealt with by DA? undecided as to guilt or innocence of that charge

    the obvious thing we blinksters would think involve the steroids. we know he used/uses, good possibility he sold, but if it’s illegal steroids, why does it say “any claim Respondent may have against Petitioner related to…” Doesn’t seem likely that the state is worried that T get her fair share of illegal drug sales.

    It seems like it must have something to do with Kiara…or Kyron. Something that is shared beyond the divorce. If Kiara, it might be the lies he has told to keep T away from Kiara, but would there already be pending criminal charges for that? seems unlikely. Could it involve Kyron’s disappearance, that K knows something about that or who is involved but has refused to cooperate in finding him while accusing T? It’s certainly possible kbit if LE know that to the degree that there are pending criminal charges, why don’t they admit T isn’t responsible for that.

    unless the privileged investigative info they don’t want out has to do with K, tho I don’t see why the deposition about sting relates in any way to K.

    this very specific sentence says there are pending criminal charges against K, that T might have a claim against him in regard to these charges, and that that claim (she might have) is NOT included in the release. that means the claim she might have against him would still be valid!

    If the whole sentence is screwed up, and it’s claim petitioner has against respondent, and THE is a mistake and him should be her, still would that mean? If T disappeared Kyron, it would be a crime but not a claim by K against her. it would be a state issue. and T has released no info about K’s private affairs.

    I look forward to more discussion from the legal types on here!

    First- it must be verified that it was not a typo or error. Rose may be right, but with so much scrutiny on this case that is one hell of an oversight if that is the case.

    I am not ready to agree that it was an error. And it may be entirely coincidental that US v Landon Britt et al filed and was granted a continuance on December 30, 2013. I do know that KH was asked about steroid use and purchase during his deposition. I respectfully disagree that TMH got the shaft in terms of equity in this agreement. This was a second Christmas for her, imo.

    If Kaine has to pay the 10% for early withdrawal on top of the 73.3%- when alimony is tax deductible to him, and TAXABLE and IMPUTABLE over min wage to her- AND it is subject to modification based on change of circumstances.. He makes 200K a year and has a 20 year 401K, was married for 3.

    What am I not seeing? As this looks like a very big barrel to bend over to me.
    B

  26. Mom3.0 says:

    RE grasshopper says:
    January 1, 2014 at 12:57 am

    Mom3.0 says GH, what law is it that you think has been thrown out the window in this case?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    I take it from your name that you have children. Imagine for a moment that LE took all 3 children from you. You are accused of something but they present no evidence, no charges. they intimate evidence but say that it is privileged, that your attorney cannot inquire into it. There was no investigation of your conduct with your children, only you can never see them again. They are given to someone else. There are multiple hearings on this but the judge rules that this information, the reason for the separation of you from your children, is protected, not subject to inquiry, but that it counts. It is true.

    Or imagine that LE tells someone you are responsible for a crime. that person tells media who covers it over and over. you are stalked and hated universally. there are no charges or evidence but no matter. You cannot work or go outside your home. People stand outside your home and cry for your arrest. No evidence, no arrest, no charges to answer, but everybody believes you are guilty because LE seems to think so. Your life is permanently on hold. nothing you can do about it.

    there are laws that should protect you from these events, but the laws currently don’t count. I know you think that this could never happen to you, but now, given what we have seen, it could happen to you.

    ***************************************************

    Grasshopper, hello. first Id like to wish you a HNY

    JFYI for safety reasons no one should assume anything from someones user name nor anything they have written online – for instance I do not assume you are a grasshopper- LOL

    Next it is very easy to misinterpret the written word -(especially mine) you have done so here.

    you wrote “Mom3.0 Says” only mom didnt say that… LOL

    My post was a thank you to graceinthehills… with an apology from me to you for overlooking that segment of your earlier post, which Grace brought to the forefront….

    So you see, graceinthehills is the poster who asked you the question to which you posted your latest thoughts:

    “GH, what law is it that you think has been thrown out the window in this case?”

    Since the above was graceinthehills question, Ill let her respond to your thoughts if she chooses-

    So sorry for the miscommunication GH and I thank you for taking the time to respond even if we were mixed up..

    Again,

    For clarification: here is the post- my thoughts begin under the stars-

    Mom3.0 says:
    December 31, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    GraceintheHills says:
    December 29, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    grasshopper says:
    December 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm
    @Mom3.0
    snipped-
    ….that is why we are all so horrified by this. Not only has a woman’s life been destroyed without charges or evidence, a little girl psychologically damaged by being separated from her mother and told who knows what, but once the law is thrown out the window, as it has happened in this case, EVERY SINGLE PERSON is at risk.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    GH, what law is it that you think has been thrown out the window in this case?

    ****
    Grace thanks for addressing this point I missed it-
    sorry GH

    AJMO
    Peace

  27. RedRose says:

    Does anyone here know why KH and DY, who probably knew TMH best, never have bought into the SZ ‘option’?

    TIA
    Happy New Year everyone.

    They have. They just believe SZ is connected to TMH.
    B

  28. grasshopper says:

    sorry Mom3.0 I was merely creating an example and didn’t mean to post misinformation about you. It was meant to say something about the experience of being accused unjustly.

    redirect the whole thing to Grace! or anybody else who has comments.

  29. RedRose says:

    Time for Steroids 101, since I only know how to spell the word.

    Are there “legal” steroids, or are they all illegal? Is this a State of Oregon thing, or DEA thing (everywhere). Is it illegal to sell them as well as USE them? How is it that gyms and body-builder types get to use them, or are they sold under a different name, such as “Peppy Pills” or “Super-Cheerios” or “Super-Duper Vitamins”?

    If TMH used them to fluff herself up, and KH uses them to muscle up, and if they are illegal, why aren’t those two yahoos in jail now? Can you blood test for use, such as is done with athletes? OR can one use them and just not SELL them?

    Maybe I should google …

    @grasshopper says: January 1, 2014 at 1:42 pm

  30. RedRose says:

    re: Blink’s reply:
    Well, why isn’t that a possibility? (SZ in some way connected to TMH, with or without her knowledge. Or SZ in some way connected to either KH or the Youngs, with or without their knowledge?)

    –or, will we probably never know? Just wondering how “random” is random, if it was?

    @RedRose says:January 1, 2014 at 3:43 pm
    Does anyone here know why KH and DY, who probably knew TMH best, never have bought into the SZ ‘option’?
    ~~~~~~~~~
    They have. They just believe SZ is connected to TMH.
    B
    ~~~~~~~

  31. vw says:

    @grass

    Yes. Was there, barely. Sudden notice. Only 20 min. beforehand. Your notes are great. Nice to hear TMH’s voice after all these years. Ch.6 asked me too. Told him to ask Bunch. Bunch walked out with me but was on the phone.

    Same old. This was worked out, the financials, out of court and done, because they all know how much court costs are going to be with the custody. Two full days with depos, etc….maybe 2 more in June.
    Kantor still wishy-washy…of course he has to grant time for a re-hashing of the heart of the depo of Rudy. Of course he’s going to offer a seat to Rees. Actually Rees can be there and intervene…just can’t intervene in the sense of abating/stopping the proceedings, again, IMO, is K’s thinking.

    Well…at least we know now why they weren’t on “game” last time. Hope there are some Blazin’ guns pointing to the 15-min “lost” chat and page 12 of the current doc come Valentine’s Day.

    After all…by looking closely at those brief, redacted depos…we KNOW that a lot of exculpatory evidence is there even without invoking the “investigation”. Both Kaine and Rudy have already been shown not to be credible.

  32. vw says:

    @Rose

    But 2 more years allowed him to shelter $35,000 more in Intel’s 401 k Savings plan
    Intel has plenty info on 401k Retirement, to which Intel contributed 6% of salary last year
    versus 401k Savings to which employee could put in 17,500/yr.

    #####

    Which is withdrawn to account first? Savings or retirement?

    Wonder if messing with any of this, since 7/26/10 (or the foundation $$$) is the P.12 subject?

    can’t be and not include it as consideration. Judge would not have been able to sign off if it is not an error in that instance.
    B

  33. cd says:

    grasshopper says:
    January 1, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    -snip

    First- it must be verified that it was not a typo or error. Rose may be right, but with so much scrutiny on this case that is one hell of an oversight if that is the case.

    I am not ready to agree that it was an error. And it may be entirely coincidental that US v Landon Britt et al filed and was granted a continuance on December 30, 2013. I do know that KH was asked about steroid use and purchase during his deposition. I respectfully disagree that TMH got the shaft in terms of equity in this agreement. This was a second Christmas for her, imo.

    If Kaine has to pay the 10% for early withdrawal on top of the 73.3%- when alimony is tax deductible to him, and TAXABLE and IMPUTABLE over min wage to her- AND it is subject to modification based on change of circumstances.. He makes 200K a year and has a 20 year 401K, was married for 3.

    —————-

    Maybe the the pending criminal charges are about something Kaine has done recently. maybe he went crazy and tried to attack TH or her family in Roseburg. Could be why the sudden done deal on the divorce. Perhaps a trade for the Moultons/TH not pressing charges.

    cd- that is a “blink says” comment, not GH who I responded to.

    There are no current criminal charges filed, and I do not believe this agreement would have been reached if it directly involved the petitioner and the respondent and her immediate family. There is a current RO in effect.
    B

  34. Venetia says:

    If no current charges are filed, could it be simply a matter of the charges not being posted to the docket due to the holiday? Could the charges be related to the above mentioned (by Blink) recent filing of US v Landon Britt ?

    Aside but not really: Related to that matter, Bo Keepers comes to mind. His business as well as his bodybuilding.

    or

    If there is a restraining order in place, it likely has to do with the stalk/chalk and related FB links but is there more to that issue as Blink &/or others mentioned? IOW, the use of pics of Baby K on the links? Could that be construed as complicit due to allowing the use of same?

    Or is there something else that happened?

    Above in response to Blinks’ comment:
    There are no current criminal charges filed, and I do not believe this agreement would have been reached if it directly involved the petitioner and the respondent and her immediate family. There is a current RO in effect.
    B

    It could mean many things Venetia, if it is a valid line item in the first place.
    B

  35. Rose says:

    @vw. 401k Savings & 401 K Retirement are 2 separate plans at Intel. Hirees in & after 2011 are treated differently.
    I posted urls to Intel’s own descriptions. The norm now is a clean break & the account $ are directly paid out with no tax consequences to either party in a divorce.

  36. Rose says:

    Here is my prediction.
    Custody will settle. Just like finances,
    after Vien’s report. Merely acquiesing to Vien as
    evaluator wrote the handwriting on the wall imo.
    She will not litigate it.
    Now that I see how detached Houze is from all but the criminal
    case. Meaning detached from Judge’s “Final” ruling re RSE
    & final mtg, “Brief,” etc. Houze has no dog in the custody fight imo.

  37. Marci says:

    Yes I have been. I have been watching and commenting on this case since the very beginning and it just makes no sense to me at all when you look at the basics. First starting out would be, how could a loving mother stay away from her baby. Why is she pleading the 5th if she has nothing to hide?

    Because talking got her 3 seconds away from waiting this thing out behind bars.
    They did not believe her Marci- She did talk. Hours, and hours and hours worth.

    I have said this many times. If I was faced with the slightest possibility that I would NEVER see my child again and my only defense to that was to not fight to do that for a brief period ( and it was brief people, we need to understand the law and it’s requirements for such actions, not just make assumptions) I would never ever risk it. I would follow my Atty advice as she has. The rest has really been out of their control once you had the civil suit and the DA requesting stays that never amounted to charges or an indictment and they never will against TMH in this matter-

    I have been on the record that I find TMH behavior in some instances “unfortunate” and honestly nothing I would have in common with really, but I would say that about DY and KH.

    I am also on the record saying that God forbid SZ strikes again, and he will, I am going to be one of the most unwelcome guests in Portland you can imagine.

    This isn’t Norma Rae. This is forever. Hester Payne as Rose offered is pretty close.

    Every child is being forsaken here. Kyron. Baby K. The next victim.

    B

  38. vw says:

    Regarding “pending charges against Kaine”:

    December 2009 …. 911 call from Sheltered Lane. Ambulance requested/medical emergency

    Houze wanted Dispatch recordings, audio, etc. …….
    (Exculpatory evidence…or more?)

    http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/2012_11_01_archive.html

    Vw- can ask you to provide a source link when referencing blink or BOC excerpts please?

    TY
    B

    DD Spicher, in interview with Blink, talked about K’s behavior when “juicing”.

    Deposition of Rudy indicated that “both” physical and mental abuse were a precurser to
    wanting Kaine out of her life.

    This call was during the month that TMH was changing James’ name to Moulton for an end of semester move to Roseburg. (don’t have the court doc on that, but have read it and is archived at the courthouse).

  39. Malty says:

    I am glad the devorce is settled and I think Terri will get to visit with Kiara I wonder if she will stay in Roseburg to be close to her elderly parents So she can help them and they can see Kiara
    If so I hope the group of people will not be going there and respect her visits with Kiara
    Their doing their thing would frighten a child

    Malty- I believe that Bunch is set to discuss that issue- iirc, he sad something about artifacts in front of the Roseburg home. To all- did I dream that through the snow dump or no?
    B

  40. Bumble says:

    http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/comment-page-88/#comment-2213293

    VW says (snipped):

    DD Spicher, in interview with Blink, talked about K’s behavior when “juicing”.

    Deposition of Rudy indicated that “both” physical and mental abuse were a precurser to
    wanting Kaine out of her life.

    This call was during the month that TMH was changing James’ name to Moulton for an end of semester move to Roseburg. (don’t have the court doc on that, but have read it and is archived at the courthouse).
    **************************************
    @vw,

    Can you believe part of what RS says of the restaurant meeting, without believing the other part about the MFH? Can you pick and choose?

  41. Marci says:

    If I was talking the truth I would have continued for the love of my child. I have been coming to this site for years and I think you do amazing work. Very cryptic at times and sometimes way too cryptic to understand what is being said but I think this one is a going away from the basics. I do believe that they uncovered more then they even knew while investigating finding Kyron and a lot of it coming from inside their own departments but…

    Well I will keep those thoughts to myself since it doesn’t seem like they are welcome here.

    Peace

    Marci- not true. There are many people here that believe or at least are open to believing TMH has culpability and to the extent that it can be proven or not- NOBODY can say with certainty. It is my opinion she has no direct involvement, and I do believe that she has had no choice but to follow the advice of counsel.

    I do think this is one of those situations that provoke deep emotional responses especially as Mother’s- but we can say what we think we would do till the cows shovel my driveway, but we just don’t know.

    I appreciate your advocacy, and yes, I admit at times I am either reservationally or full on “purposelly” cryptic. I promise you that it is either me typing like I think, or because what I write is by design for a desired outcome that serves the case. The advocacy always has to be first. That which makes me a lousy journalist in terms of caring about the murder business or scoop factor, I think serves the mission.

    I also admit that I want to scream about this case most days currently and on occasion it might show in some of responses. I appolly for that.

    B

  42. Malty says:

    @Blink
    I hope you heard right
    That internet stuff lis sick but that Roseburg stuff upsets me more I am afraid something really sad may happen

  43. vw says:

    @Blink

    Vw- can ask you to provide a source link when referencing blink or BOC excerpts please?

    TY
    B

    ********************
    Like this?

    DD Spicher, in the interview with Blink, (above) talked about K’s behavior when “juicing”.

    (http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/09/11/blink-on-crime-kyron-horman-investigation-exclusive-dede-spicher-interview-yields-allegations-of-illegal-steroid-use-terri-horman-took-to-police/#comments)

    ********************

    BTW. Could you email me?

    Exactly and thank you. When we have quotes I need to ask for and have the link back to them- standard rules apply on that. I appreciate it.

    Will do.
    B

  44. Grasshopper says:

    I believe bunch referred to them as visuals.

  45. GraceintheHills says:

    Mom3.0 says:
    January 1, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    RE grasshopper says:
    January 1, 2014 at 12:57 am

    Mom3.0 says GH, what law is it that you think has been thrown out the window in this case?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    @Grass, as Mom3.0 said, it was me that asked that question.

    Grass says, You are accused of something but they present no evidence, no charges. they intimate evidence but say that it is privileged, that your attorney cannot inquire into it.

    @Grass – I don’t know of any LE agency that shares information in an ongoing criminal investigation with anyone outside of the investigation. That is not unique to this case.

    Grass says, There was no investigation of your conduct with your children, only you can never see them again.

    @Grass, how do you know there was no investigation into her conduct with her children? Given that one of the children went missing, and she was the last parent with that child, you can bet LE looked into her relationships with all of the children in the home. Imo, LE would have looked into all the parents involved in this case.

    Grass says, They [the children] are given to someone else. There are multiple hearings on this but the judge rules that this information, the reason for the separation of you from your children, is protected, not subject to inquiry, but that it counts. It is true.

    @Grass, “It is true”? Where did you get this information? That is not what the judge said at all. The “reason” for the RO has been public knowledge for years. It is the criminal investigation that is being protected. She always had the “right” to challenge the RO.

    Grass says, Or imagine that LE tells someone you are responsible for a crime. that person tells media who covers it over and over. you are stalked and hated universally. there are no charges or evidence but no matter. You cannot work or go outside your home. People stand outside your home and cry for your arrest. No evidence, no arrest, no charges to answer, but everybody believes you are guilty because LE seems to think so. Your life is permanently on hold. nothing you can do about it.
    ~~~~~~~~~~
    @grass, when did LE tell anyone that TH is responsible for a crime? That is a conclusion only a judge or jury can make. You say there is “no evidence.” How, without being privy to the investigation, can anyone claim there is no evidence? None of us know what evidence LE has in this case. Irt your claim that TH has been unable to go outside her home: I may be reading it wrong, but it appears from the dissolution documents that TH does have a job.

    Grass says, there are laws that should protect you from these events, but the laws currently don’t count.

    @Grass, again, what laws are you claiming “don’t count”? Houze and Bunch are there to make sure her rights are not violated.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    Thanks for letting me express my pov on the case, Grass. AJMHO. Happy New Year to all of you!

  46. loreli51 says:

    Many prayers and much love for Kyron Horman always.

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