Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Attorneys Call Her A Suspect
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In court papers filed Wednesday, Bunch went further, noting that Terri Horman is a “de facto suspect” in the second-grader’s disappearance…”
Portland, OR- In a voluntary appearance in court yesterday for matters relating to the pending divorce motion by estranged husband Kaine; Terri Horman showed her face for the first time since the week after her stepson, Kyron, vanished from Skyline School.
Although Kaine Horman opted to be represented by his counsel Laura Rackner and not appear personally to protect himself emotionally, according to Rackner, Terri Horman braved the fray.
Arriving with attorneys Peter Bunch and Stephen Houze, the trio was immediately met and escorted by MCSO deputies in “the box” formation to the 5th floor courtroom where local media scurried in from behind. Within 45 minutes, Judge Meisenheimer ruled in Kaine Horman’s favor and granted his request that the issues of the mortgage-sized retainer, allegedly furnished by Terri to Houze and other distribution and custody issues will be heard in a hearing on October 7, denying her request to have the issues bifurcated.
During the proceeding, Bunch argued that his Client cannot properly litigate the divorce and custody actions currently because she is.”..unable to proceed in the ordinary course to protect her rights as to discovery, property division, support and, particularly, custody and parenting time issues.”
In fact, for the first time publicly, we learn a very important detail about the criminal investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
According to her counsel, who would certainly be “in the know”, Terri Horman has NOT been named a suspect by MCSO in Kyron’s case, but she is painfully aware she is one.
Loosely translated, a defacto suspect is an unofficially declared suspect, but for all intents and purposes is definitely the target of the investigative crosshairs.
The Microsaccade Moment
Microsaccades are tiny involuntary movements of the eye generally caused by visual fixation. The result on visual perception can cause the beholder to question if they are “really seeing what they are seeing.”
I had a few of those yesterday while analyzing footage of the day’s events in conjunction with known facts of this case.
They Are:
The MCSO guard detail dispatched at the courthouse assigned to Terri and counsel et al for a family court appearance. I have spoken with a few local family lawyers who do not wish to be identified, with a combined 26 years of practice. None have ever seen this practice in a similar matter in Multnomah County. Specifically, the deputies went inside the actual hearing and waited to escort the trio out the back.
During the hearing, there was not a syllable mentioned about the driving force behind the request for expedition of the case in the first place. The very substantive weight that was used to secure an emergency custody and restraining order, which remains uncontested to date: The Alleged Murder for Hire Plot. Why wouldn’t a family lawyer looking to abate the divorce case strike at the very merits on which the plaintiff’s arguments are based? The plaintiff in this case uses an almost one year old mfh plot allegation, which was not carried out, and no person has been declared a suspect or arrested, to control every filing to date and counsel does not refute the claims therein? What possible reason could that be?
A recent interview with Terri Horman’s son James, in which he states that his Mother cannot have a computer, cell phone, or leave her parents home in Roseburg.
Blink Analysis Editorial: Sealed Criminal Indictment OR Civil Commitment?
A Civil commitment, which would have had to been voluntary, such as a concern for Ms. Horman injuring herself, or some sort of dependency is a possibility, but a highly unlikely one considering she appeared in court yesterday.
Strictly my opinion of course, but based on my microsaccades, I think it is entirely possible that Terri Horman is under a pre-arrest indictment in the matter of the alleged murder for hire plot, or some derivative thereof.
It would certainly be unlikely that she could have been booked and granted bail without a leak, but a sealed indictment, which may or may not include a sealed arrest warrant, would follow Oregon’s propensity to use the grand jury as a form of “preliminary hearing.” In light of the fact that there is an ongoing criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance involving Federal, county and State investigative assets, it would be entirely appropriate.
The public would not know until such time as the indictment and any potentially attached writs are unsealed. Throw in the possibility there is always the chance that Clackamas County may be the charging county for such an offense and not Multnomah.
In which case, this is about to get very interesting. Recall MCSO chief Dan Staton saying Clackamas County Major Crimes Team is involved in the case? That would suggest at least part of a crime has been established in their jurisdiction. Rudy Sanchez resides in Clackamas County.
Clackamas County District Attorney John Foote and Criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze are well acquainted. You might say that Foote owes his very job to Houze in a way-
John Foote lost as the incumbent DA in 1996 to his own deputy district attorney Terese “Terry” Gustafson. Terry was in the middle of fighting an Oregon Bar complaint at the time which cleared her name just days before the inauguration.
The embattled DA did not take long to be the subject of more ethics violations including felony perjury charges for lying to a circuit judge about releasing the file of a juvenile that was ordered to be destroyed. Gustafson was disbarred.
Who filed the Bar complaint who also represented the accused boy who was subsequently acquitted?
Who was the prosecuting attorney for the Oregon Bar?
Stephen Houze.
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@Beejay, Blue, Twinkletoes, and Nana2
I thought I was alone too. There are times when I am sucked in and contemplate various theories, but I quickly fall back on the notion that TH is not responsible for Kyron’s disappearance. I could certainly be wrong in my opinion.
I have long entertained that there is some serious power involved and power not necessarily viewed as a negative force OR someone close to some serious power. Sometimes I think that TH was pegged as someone to go after based on her behavior that can be viewed negatively by public opinion, and when she realized this, she shut up immediately. I think anyone in their right mind would do that given the same situation and location.
Angela1981 and Idahogal,
Regarding the possibility that MC was trying to help, you could be right, I hope so. Time will tell.
Blink,
Re: #14 Do they have a Russian Mafia in the Portland area? I’ve never heard it mentioned before. Personally, I think most info. is
being withheld from the public, and it’s all going to “hit the fan”
soon.jmo
@ MockingbirdSings says:
September 3, 2010 at 2:06 pm
“@ aibohphobia – I looked at your link to the wedding ring photo and found several more in that same album. Definitely dark band and easy to spot. Maybe she left it, sold it, pawned it, hated it, lost it – and Houze said wear wedding ring, so she used one of the other 2 from previous marriages. Kaine is the only one who would have known and he wasn’t there – doubtful he would have looked at her if he’d been there and she had the long sleeves anyway.”
Mockingbird, Ha! I never thought of her using a previous wedding ring! That would sure send a message to Kaine if that is what she did. LOL
and on a happier note..thank you “GodFather Pizza” for your generosity
http://www.kgw.com/video?id=101972808&sec=547647
nana2 I am with you- I think TH lives in fair everyday and is trying to protect Kiara
50.Satori says:
September 3, 2010 at 8:29 pm
@Beejay, Blue, Twinkletoes, and Nana2
I thought I was alone too. There are times when I am sucked in and contemplate various theories, but I quickly fall back on the notion that TH is not responsible for Kyron’s disappearance. I could certainly be wrong in my opinion.
Guys…I don’t get it. If TH is not responsible who initially put this poor child in harms way? Did bad guys see Kyron and say let’s abduct that cute child and set up his step mom for the fall?
Well, if we can’t name names of certain private businesses in the information industry, can I link to some snippets about ChoicePoint, LexisNexis, and their subsidiaries and competitors?
“California State Senator Jackie Speier put Choicepoint, LexisNexis, and Acxiom in the hot seat in a hearing before the State’s Senate Banking Committee on Wednesday, March 30, 2005….”
“Choicepoint apologized for selling personal information to criminals, and announced a series of reforms. The company is no longer going to sell “sensitive” personal information to small businesses. The company will still sell its full reports to big businesses and federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies….”
“One group of documents obtained from the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) shows that ChoicePoint offered a contract for unlimited direct access to international databases for a $1 million fee. Other documents obtained from the Department of Justice Management Division show that the agency entered into an $11 million contract with ChoicePoint for fiscal year 2002.”
Other countries have joined in the fray against ChoicePoint. Not to single them out; there are others in the industry.
http://epic.org/privacy/choicepoint/#inadequate
************
Or, at this link:
http://epic.org/privacy/choicepoint/cp_article.pdf
There’s discussion about these CDBs(commercial data brokers) and related cautions, including names listed there like:
~ChoicePoint and its subsidiaries
~LexisNexis
~Dun & Bradstreet
~DBT Online,a ChoicePoint subsidiary with their AutoTrack Plus product, whose advertising materials state, acc. to the article’s author:
“AutoTrack Plus was designed with law enforcement in mind. DBT created its services with the help of law enforcement and continues to maintain sworn law enforcement officers on site.”
**************
I’ve drifted.
I do feel like an outsider when these private conversations take place here, hinting at something relevant, but not letting us peons in on it. Kinda like I’m at the table and yet not allowed in on the discussion.
?
B
@Satori: Well, look at how well the whole media circus has distracted the public from the investigation. A benefit for the media, of course–something to publish, and juicy. But it also takes public pressure off LE for information.
What real info., from credible sources, do we have about the disappearance of Ky? Precious little. We sit here over-processing some meager bits of verifiable info, and trying to take the rest from how somebody looked at somebody, how their clothes fit, how they remind us of someone we once knew. On and on.
TH probably knows something. She got in with the wrong crowd and inadvertently put Ky in harm’s way. That’s all I can take from what I know. Ain’t much.
And of all the people that give me the creeps, just based on my own reaction? Anselmo, of the latino-gang-facial hair. (Haven’t seen Rudy.)
He should.
B
@Idahogal and Angela: Remember Becky Owens defense of M. Cook? She said that she and MC were conducting their own investigation and things just got out of hand between MC and TH. (They were investigating the family in between planning candlelight vigils and such.)
He’s strange; his ex-wife accused him of a lot of inappropriate sex drugs. Just weird enough facial expressions that you don’t wanna trust him.
A mule for KH? Maybe. Or for LE? I’ve always asked who is the drug connection for the players here; could be someone LE was watching, who just happened to be well-placed for some covert work??
“@aibohphobia On the flip side, I can see throwing the ring at my spouse if I were innocent and he suspected me in a fit of anger. Or even leaving it behind in a place he’d be sure to see it as a way of saying, ‘You’ve destroyed our marriage by this crazy thinking.’”
@ tracylee says: September 3, 2010 at 11:20 am
“But she seems too calculating for that. So I bet she took the ring with her if for no other reason than she could sell it. But also maybe to wear if she ever goes to court for Kyron’s disappearance.”
aibohphobia says: September 3, 2010 at 4:13 pm
“Good points, Tracy. I thought that the ring was a different ring because she possibly destroyed the first one in a fit of anger. My mom did that once, throwing her ring in the fire. So, for whatever reason, she is wearing a different ring now.”
Of all the reasons someone might wear a ring to a divorce court hearing, I can tell you that throwing the ring at someone would not be the first thing that comes to mind. Most often, the wearer is trying to convey they still love the person and do not want a divorce.
I have also seen cases where one party is being dumped by their spouse, who has found a new love interest, and the party who is being dumped wears the wedding ring just to needle the new love interest. As far as I can tell, the message is, “I’m the spouse, and you’re the sleazebag who cheats with a married person.”
There were some rumors early on that Kaine had a girlfriend, but nothing to substantiate it, all posted to Oregonlive.com. Allegedly, the rumors were coming from Terri Horman and her friends.
There’s a certain irony to the rumors about Kaine having a girlfriend, given that Desiree has confirmed that Terri started dating Kaine during his marriage to Desiree. However, if the rumors are true, Terri would not be the first person to believe that a wedding ring redeems “the other woman” and restores her to a position of respect within society. That said, modern society seems not to mind transient romantic attachments. It’s almost Victorian to think any married person would have a lesser status because of how the relationship began. (MOO, MOO, MOO.)
As far as selling the ring goes, the resale value of used jewelry is terrible. Moreover, if she were going to sell it, why on Earth would she be wearing it? The wearing of the wedding ring is the message.
As an aside, the ring belongs to Terri, not Kaine. Whether an engagement ring or wedding ring, the ring was a gift to Terri. The parties got married, and it’s up to Terri whether or not she keeps the ring, wears it, or what not.
Nic says: September 3, 2010 at 2:58 pm
“I noticed that Blink had indicated a HE (male) suspect and cannot separate myself from the horrible thought that this involves sexual abuse of some nature as there was a lot of references made early on about Timur Vandykes. One other question that was never answered was if there was any relation of Steve Moulton and Terri Moulton as he lives in Portland and shows as being married to a young lady with the last name of ‘Vandyke’ (no ‘e’) as in Timur’s name.”
I cannot find any Steve Moulton who is married to a Vandyke or Van Dyke. Please provide a source or link for this information.
S says:
September 3, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Do we know for certain that Rudy owned a white truck? Anyone?
—————————–
Answer; YES; as per this Blink report of July 6, 2010;
The Landscaper, in his white truck, on her property, demanding his payment for $10,000.
The same Portland source confirmed that an undercover detective, playing the role of an associate of the landscaper turned alleged assassin, was present. It was also confirmed a bulk of the incident was overheard on the police scanner. The Truck registration and plate were called in on an open channel as well.
http://blinkoncrime.com/category/kyron-horman/page/2/
I think TH was double-crossed in some plan of “I’ll show him!” She thought she was the intelligent one, but was deceived. That look on her face at that first press conference is one of confusion. You can almost see her trying to piece it together.
34.MockingbirdSings says:
September 3, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Mockingbird, consider that TH says she was at the school at 8:15. DY implied that the witness who saw Ky and the man at the truck had a different timeline than TH. I am wondering just how long TH was really at the science fair. TH claims to have waved goodbye at 8:45, but that may not have happened at all.
Ten – fifteen minutes to leave a sleeping baby in a locked truck without someone isn’t unheard of, and if someone was in the truck, well the baby wasn’t left alone at all. I have read people on blogs insist that she was seen with the baby at the fair, but I have never read a newspaper article stating that.
I think Ky could have been wide awake waiting in the truck at FM, while she ran in, before the doctor’s appointment. If TH received a phone call from the school or someone saw him in the truck, she always had the original excuse she gave the teacher of the doctor’s appointment. If she just handed Ky off to someone, she really didn’t have to do much and the baby might have served to make things “normal.” I know this isn’t a popular theory, and it is not necessarily my theory, but it could have.
35.blue says:
September 3, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Blue,twinkletoes and nana2, You are all so good at this, but how does the doctors appointment fit in?
I think she has to be involved because of the doctor’s appointments. She told the teacher it was on Friday, but she didn’t say which Friday. Ky told his friend he had a doctor’s appointment. Then she emails her friend on the 5th about an appointment for Kiara. She really tried to muddy the waters and confuse everyone.
The statistics say that kids are usually abducted by a family member. What are the odds that the family member that is the last known adult to see him, is the family member who failed two poly’s, who was involved in a misunderstanding about doctor’s appointments resulting in the child not being missed at school that day, cannot provide an alibi for a window of time when the child was missing and has a friend who cannot account for most of that same time frame. Statistically speaking, could there even be more of a 1% chance she was not involved?
@beejay: russian because of a growth of organized crime by russian mafia in oregon and washington. I have my boy wonder lawclerk looking into it. it could of course be some other type of organized crime group. but I think there is a very scary rotten big fish involved and the FBI and DEA have caught the scent.
MFH is unproven. But, how on earth does one even begin to find a hitman?! By associating with members of organized crime. If the mfh is true (and frankly, I’m not condemning TH on it) then the organized crime retaliation (for changing her mind on the hit and then refusing to pay?) has to be investigated. MOOoooOO
Follow the MOOOooollah.
50.Satori says:
September 3, 2010 at 8:29 pm
@Beejay, Blue, Twinkletoes, and Nana2
I thought I was alone too. There are times when I am sucked in and contemplate various theories, but I quickly fall back on the notion that TH is not responsible for Kyron’s disappearance. I could certainly be wrong in my opinion.
I have long entertained that there is some serious power involved and power not necessarily viewed as a negative force OR someone close to some serious power. Sometimes I think that TH was pegged as someone to go after based on her behavior that can be viewed negatively by public opinion, and when she realized this, she shut up immediately. I think anyone in their right mind would do that given the same situation and location.
____________________________________________________________________
@Satori
What are the reasons you feel TH was not involved?
@Satori
Sounds like you are saying government, or political power…which wouldn’t really be a great surprise. She can always consider a Witness Protection Program if she is in fear for her life.
@Lyla,
I was going to name my daughter Lyla. It was a big toss-up! Beautiful name.
In answering your question, I offer the following:
1. Law enforcement stated all along that Terri had been cooperative. To my knowledge, they have not stated otherwise.
2. TH has not been named a suspect. She is not a suspect.
3. It was not until the botched and perhaps odd MFH sting that LE STOPPED asking TH questions. Also, the string seemed very sloppy to me…..not well thought out…seemingly rushed. Maybe because there was no real truth to MFH? TH retained an attorney. Terri Horman is obviously not talking now. But it was LE who stopped asking questions after the unsuccessful sting, IIRC. Again, TH was cooperating.
3. LE has already made it clear that they are withholding information as to not damage the investigation. Therefore, 3-months-later, so many questions that we all have are left unanswered. We have no idea about so many things including: a) The Doctor’s appointment, b) Kiara’s whereabouts throughout the day, c) the results concerning questioning of Skyline employees, etc.
4. The only thing I know relative to Terri being “unthruthful” pertains to her polygraphs, which are used as an investigative tool. IIRC, we have no idea what questions received a deceptive response. Further, LE can LIE during an investigation, so how can we be sure she failed in the first place?
5. While Terri Horman had an affair with KH while Desiree was pregnant and married to Kaine, KAINE cheated on his pregnant wife. It seems that people are putting all blame on TH, or forgetting that it takes two to do that sort of thing. We have no idea what was said between parties. We have no idea what Kaine implicated about his relationship with Desiree. We have no idea who pursued who. Bad situation all the way around. Nevertheless, the public has found TH guilty of Kyrons disappearance and LE, Kaine, and Desiree have provided tid-bits of information to make this happen.
6. I am not going to get off topic and/or discuss something that is far too complicated for me to convey at the moment. However, you can read some material that Beejay has provided recently, which reflects my serious concern about corruption in Oregon.
This does not include all I could possibly say, but it answers your question.
I also think TH was involved because of dr.’s appt., the insistence of proof with the receipt at first FM, “driving around” for a few hours, the weird parking of the truck, failing the polly, no heart!
Re: what Blink and beejay said about AS: Well, they got ‘im! Make him talk, English, Spanish, Spanglish, surely they have some good techniques, please! Yes, I think he is the one who did the “roughest, vilest stuff” though putting yourself in harm’s way and lying and game playing and holding things up is pretty durn evil as well, as is using people for your own self-centered gains. (though there could be others unbeknownst to us, but of the gang we know, yes, he is the worse) May justice prevail for Kyron, all children and the wonderful parents of little Kyron.
Blink:
I sent u info. that 28,000…yes, thousand, people were killed by drug cartels in Mexico in the past 4 years.I hope u will post it here. Tks. (I am going to learn to copy and paste tomorrow, if my husband will teach me. lol)
@Ode
50.Satori says:
September 3, 2010 at 8:29 pm
@Beejay, Blue, Twinkletoes, and Nana2
I thought I was alone too. There are times when I am sucked in and contemplate various theories, but I quickly fall back on the notion that TH is not responsible for Kyron’s disappearance. I could certainly be wrong in my opinion.
Guys…I don’t get it. If TH is not responsible who initially put this poor child in harms way? Did bad guys see Kyron and say let’s abduct that cute child and set up his step mom for the fall?
_________________________________________
Ode, you DO get it and IMO it’s pretty clear. And I get it. But some people just don’t.
Hi guys… Just a quick note to the person that felts all alone about TH. There ar quite a few of us that feel the way you do. I, for one, have stated from the beginning that while I think TH is the reason this little guy is gone, I just can’t bring myself to think she planned or executed it. I’m in the hospital and not able to comment much right now but I’m tryin to keep up with all the post
Must be
beejay says: September 3, 2010 at 9:18 pm
And of all the people that give me the creeps, just based on my own reaction? Anselmo, of the latino-gang-facial hair. (Haven’t seen Rudy.)
He should.
B
After reading this I went back to the article with Anselmo’s picture to take a look. Agreed, he is creepy. I also noticed that he is pretty small (5’4″ 125lb.) It could be possible that on a busy science fair day, someone his size could fit in at school w/K-8 and not stick out too much. Especially if he was dressed for the part and shaved his goatee. Since the mugshot is a month after Ky’s disappearance I am going to assume one could grow that much facial hair in a month – guys correct me if I am wrong. MOO and this may be a bit out there, but just throwing it out for discussion.
One other item I noticed in this article is the screen shot of the 911 calls. I skimmed through all of the comments and did not see this mentioned so I will ask – Why are the addresses reported on the all of the calls different? They are all for the same street, but different street numbers. The ones from the area check calls on 3/29 and 6/21 could be considered the same address, but the threats call from the TH/KH home on 6/26 is different than the others. Were the first two calls prior to 6/26 neighbors calling on creepers in the area, or do we know they were from the KH/TH home. This may have been discussed, but I scanned all of the comments on the article and did not see it mentioned.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/14/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-landscaper-rudy-sanchez-knew-kyron/
Sorry hit submit by mustake… Must be all the drugs but newsatfive sounds like futureman to me! Lol j/k
Thoughts and prayers are with kyron, his brothers and sister.
Well, Maybe she thinks the rings worth “is more” because it is direct to this case … I sometimes feel like putting my old wedding ring on Craig’s list because someone might think it could be a good luck symbol ~ I was married (before he won) ~ the abusive husband~ to the million Milwaukie (Oregon) powerball winner~
Thank God for my life ~ we were divorced by than, Thank God~I know I would be dead by now~ At the time of my divorce, PGE(dont believe all the good guy stories you read from the Media~ the Exxon poor guy who lost his pension ~ he lost it all to his kid’s wife before than~ was ready to commit him to Dammasch State Hosp (sorry~ spelling) One day I was driving the route I always did~ he knew I took everyday I heard a loud CRACK & the next day my windshield was spiderwebbing (breaking) I was working for the bank at the time & the auto body shop called me at work (they were so concerned) & told me they had found a shell & it had penetrated just inches above my head (the metal piece that separates the windshield from the side & front window)I still have the piece fron my Toyota Cressida ~ the intent had for me to be in an accident on the freeway leaving town (small town) but a truck passing threw the shooter off probably saved my life~I am so thankful for the life I have now but scary knowing~ no matter how much $ he has that he is still out there ~ I watched the stalking etc he did to his wife before me~& smooth talking guy that he was~ he sucked me in
Correction on Gannon~Exxon pension~ she had him totally alimony~ child support ~ any PGE pension~ not sure about Exxon but I just wanted him not to be able to get his hands on my home ~assets & so I just said whatever we came with we would leave with~
Annals says:
September 3, 2010 at 9:52 pm
S says:
September 3, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Do we know for certain that Rudy owned a white truck? Anyone?
—————————–
Answer; YES; as per this Blink report of July 6, 2010;
Annals, thank you so much. I was certain we had verified this but could not find it today! A friend and I are going to take a Sunday drive (prolly on Monday) and test the timeline and go every single place mentioned. We are going to take a car seat and a baby doll to see exactly how long it will take to walk from the school to the parking lot, put a baby in the seat, drive to the first Freddy’s, take baby, go in and buy something, then drive to the second FM. We are then going to check the times for going back toward the school and Sauvie Island. We are going to have a look-see down the dead end road where a white truck was spotted at 3:00 PM and at 2:00 AM. We are going to try to cover everything to see if anything interesting arises. I believe Kaine affirmed that Kiara was at the science fair in an interview. Also, I know that I have read statements from a Skyline parent who said she did see Kiara and she and Terri talked about her being sick. I looked for about two hours today and cannot find it, but I’m not giving up. I think Terri had Kiara with her.
enumclawrose says:
September 3, 2010 at 10:12 pm
I think Ky could have been wide awake waiting in the truck at FM, while she ran in, before the doctor’s appointment.
I think it would have been way to risky to leave a child in a vehicle. People report it immediately as they should. My friend and I disagree that she could have made Kyron stay down in the truck. She says Terri could have scared Kyron and told him to stay down. I’m saying a 7 year old would peak in any circumstances.
enumclawrose says:
September 3, 2010 at 10:12 pm
What are the odds that the family member that is the last known adult to see him, is the family member who failed two poly’s, who was involved in a misunderstanding about doctor’s appointments resulting in the child not being missed at school that day, cannot provide an alibi for a window of time when the child was missing and has a friend who cannot account for most of that same time frame.
I think you nailed it here! Just too profound to be coincidences.
I think whatever happened to Kyron was not in Terri’s plan. I think she planned something, but others involved had their own plan.
@Ode,
Where is the proof that TH is guilty of taking/hiding/harming Kyron Horman? I am not saying it is not possible, but we do not know this as fact. I agree that there have been very interesting things tossed out to ponder, but LE is not telling it like it is for reasons unkown to me.
One big question I have is….When TH seemingly left Kyron in the hallway, was Kyron with the chaperon of 6 childeren at that time? It is unclear to me. IIRC, didn’t Kyron’s chaperon notice that one of his/her childeren were missing from the group of 6? I am very unclar about what has become of this information. There are so many questions that I have left unanswered. If anyone knows the answers please let me know.
Thanks
Guys…I don’t get it. If TH is not responsible who initially put this poor child in harms way? Did bad guys see Kyron and say let’s abduct that cute child and set up his step mom for the fall?
Satori-
Terri Horman HERSELF has stated that Kyron was last seen with 2 girls and an unregistered male chaperone. I obviously cannot vet the statement, but she definitely made it.
B
@Malty: Did I see you post that Malty is the name of your pup? Grace is my beautiful and devoted black Lab. Gotta love those faithful companions of ours!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IMHO, I am still convinced TH is involved in some fashion, and my belief is based on a couple of observations.
1) LE: When LE has a person of interest whom they can’t clear, they may share this info with the victim’s family. In sharing with the family, LE may say something like, “Well, we think Terri knows more, but she’s just not talking.” Kaine, in his interviews, has made it clear that is the case, as has Desiree. In one of his more recent interviews, Kaine also said LE is building a solid case. Believe me, when your case is stalled and you have little or no circumstantial evidence, there is no “case-building” going on. Period. So, although they have not yet been able to clear TH, I feel ALL the LE agencies have been meticulously gathering some pretty intense circumstantial evidence in lots of different areas.
2) Her actions: *IF* TH did it, of course she had help. We can take a peek into her psyche by looking at her actions/modus operandi. When she *allegedly* wants Kaine dead, she doesn’t want to dirty her hands, she allegedly tries to hire someone to do it for her. Why not do the same with Kyron? Hire someone or choose someone you suspect has a penchant for young boys, and VOILA, your problem is solved. Once everything is set up, you can be on the periphery, and have time to drag your little sick bambino from store to store.
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Changing gears, I think at least one other poster has entertained the thought that the LS may be a confidential informant. This could be one explanation for his picture and story being kept out of the media and for the bizarre, failed sting. Of course, this whole thingy with the LS could be much more involved. Just don’t have enough info to even begin to speculate.
By the way, my DH is a retired career prosecutor who spent his last seven years in the Special Crimes Division. He is a wonderful sounding board for all the “theories” of this case, but aside from explaining the law, he keeps pretty quiet. The only thing he keeps reminding me about this case is just how few facts have been revealed by LE.
Again, MOO, MOO, MOO! And, ‘nite to our dear Blink and all you wonderful Blinksters!
Blink seems to make it clear, Anselmo is scary. He lookus alot like the Anselmo that was suspected if a gang murder several years ago. Perhaps Anselmo was aware of the relationship between Terri and Rudy (including the MFH plot). Maybe Anselmo threatened Terri (or Terri and Rudy). Perhaps he thought he could get money from her. The sting could have been meant to let Anselmo. Know they hadn’t told the cops about him, but it would also have let him know that LE had an idea what was going in. This might also mean Terri is afraid something could happen to Kitty.
Annals says:
September 3, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Thanks for thanking me! It seems at times that we run these facts in circles…and I too get confused as to why we are revisiting them… Although I am perhaps [well, most likely] incapable of viewing all this from 30,000 ft., I do focus on, and further dismiss or not, certain small facts, such as ‘bat’ phones…for me the bottom line of that was te decption/false names, and, “3 weeks after the fact,” -potential felonies committed, perhaps unknowingly, by friends of non-alleged perp. MOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
melissab says:
September 3, 2010 at 9:40 am
Thank you very much. I really think that the phones, even if bought June 4, were to be used for friends of TH so that her cell didn’t miss a call because this was thought of as a kidnapping in the beginning. I’m sure she needed someone to talk to, she prolly had the evil eye(Maloika?) on her from moment one as the last person to see Ky.
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You are very generous in thought, however, consider this: if this had been a true LE/FBI concern of kidnapping from the get-go, then, it would have originated on day 1 -not day 24, after which the prepaid phones were purchased. Additionally, if the primary concern was to not “miss a call from a kidnapper” -then, imo, it stands to reason that LE would certainly have provided access on another phone line “as not to miss a call from kidnapper.” -at the very least, Th could have loaned Tony’s phone. But I do agree with you that, after 23 days of Ky missing, that surely she, “needed someone to talk to.” I just wished that she chose to pick up her cell phone and phone LE.
Melissab- I kinda sorta want to apologize here: Although I WISH that she would, and believe that she should have, have phoned LE to speak frankly — I totally understand, as a sister, friend, daughter, woman, mother, that when I am upset about craziness in my life, or even PERCEIVED injustices, that I phone my sister/daughter/friend/mother to vent and seek emotional support. I get that. I really do. It’s just that for me, the stakes have never, ever been so grave as this -a missing child that was essentially, “my own.” So a crossroads here for me, were I to be the step-mum -major stress, missing child, being accused… surely it has not been easy. I am gracious enough to grant that much. However, I view the purchase of prepaid phones as a piece of a much bigger web.
Beejay, Twinkletoes, Sartori, Nana2 – Yes, I remember Becky Owens. I was in touch with her the second week of June via email. I offered to put a Kyron banner on my property. I have a huge real estate sign that faces a busy artery in Washington County. The RE Co. went bankrupt so here I sit with an ugly sign and no rent for it. At any rate, they decided not to use my locale. I’ve had no further contact with her, but was impressed with all the work she did in those early weeks. She put together the first vigil, hung the banners with MC, etc. I would not be surprised to learn that MC was helping LE and/or Kaine, certainly stranger things have happened here. All of the above appear to remain friends, which furthers my thoughts on this.
I also found the quote in the comment from DEB1948 says September 3, 2010 at 12:17 pm “My grandfather was CHIEF OF POLICE in Indiana, he used to say..if i could only spill my guts, you could figure this case out!” What a smart man, ever so true in this situation. If we knew what Blink and LE know perhaps we could knock this out of the ball park?
ChiaPet517 – I don’t appreciate anyone saying “some people just don’t get it”, it’s insulting and doesn’t help anyone here. Basically we’ve all put a lot of time, thought and emotion into this case, I respect everyone for that, and I expect the same. We are all working towards the same goal, the most important thing, which is “Where is Kyron?”
I have a strong gut feeling that RS and AS are the key to this whole ugly thing. RS has disappeared, his business phone doesn’t even ring, it just loops out into dead space when I call. He is not listed at any local jails or in the BOP database. IMO this guy is either being hidden by LE or he is hiding from someone else, and I’m not talking about the media here. AS is sitting in prison with a US Marshall hold. Maybe he’s not talking because he’s safer here in jail than back home answering to his boss for something he effed up. He is an illegal alien, and we don’t know what he is involved in, yet. Is he going to be a snitch, get deported and face those consequences? I think NOT. All of this is MOO.
I am not saying that TH is not ultimately accountable for what happened to Ky. I’ve put forth a lot of theories on this site, twice about two white trucks with links to news articles about witnesses seeing someone in or around the Horman truck that day. Well, I guess I was on to something since it was brought up at the last interviews with KH and DY. Furthermore, if I’m wrong about anything I’ll gladly admit it, rule it out and move on. No problem for me, that is part of the process here. I am going to outline my reasoning and thoughts about TH, and I’ll back it up. But not tonight, I’m too tired and I’m getting a little snarky.
MOO and good night.
I had lunch today with an esteemed law professor at UCLA and talked to him about the Kyron Horman case which he had not been following. I told him that his stepmother had been the last to see him when she took him to school and left him walking down the hallway to his class and then I told him about her previous attempt to have Kaine murdered and my friend said immediately, “Oh, she wanted to be the sole heir”. I remembered that that had been my reaction back in the very beginning before I got distracted with sexting and bat phones and Dede and all the other crap about this case. I realized that I still think that may be all that this is about. She wanted out of her marriage to Kaine but knew she wouldn’t get much from him in the way of alimony so she figured he needed to die. When that didn’t work out, she figured she’d off him later but get rid of Kyron first so that, after Kaine was finally killed off, there would be no one else in line for his money but her and Kiara. She probably couldn’t bring herself to do the deed to Kyron so enlisted the help of others to take him off her hands. I believe it was “don’t ask, don’t tell” regarding Kyron’s fate so that she could honestly say that she didn’t know what happened to him or where he was and could tell herself that, if he ended up dead, she had nothing to do with it. The people she handed him over to are most likely involved in unsavory and illegal activities or they would not have been consented to being involved in disappearing a child. This is all my opinion only but I do think my professor friend’s initial reaction was logical and to the point.
I still closely follow Kyron’s disappearance. It’s such a sad, twisted story and sickening to think so much evil does exist. I see so much about human trafficking, child porn, child molestation, drugs, WTH? It certainly makes you wonder how large this story actually is. May there soon be justice. God bless Kyron, his friends and family.
@Cbickel: Milk and cookies, milkshakes, kahlua and cream?? What’s your pleasure? Made with almond milk or soymilk instead? So sorry you’re laid up. They’re not drugging you to make you talk are they???
I’m a pretty evidence-based thinker, who sometimes drifts. I haven’t plugged much of the “intel” about TH into my thinking because I don’t trust the “sources”. That includes: whatever may/may not have been said about the doctor’s appointment.
Clarification: When I say I don’t think TH was responsible, I mean directly. I don’t think she planned, participated in, or directed anyone to snatch Ky. If she was running with the wrong crowd and that in any way put Ky in harm’s way, then I believe she was MORALLY “responsible”. So, legally vs. morally–2 diff. things. I separate them out in my own thinking.
@twinkletoes: looking forward to what you can turn up. If we’ve got AS pegged correctly as the one who snatched Ky, though, is a latino local working for the Russian mafia? Or is the criminal activity prior to June 4 related to the Russian thing and Ky somehow separate, yet intertwined?
Love your “MOOOooollah” New fav word!
AS could NOT have snatched Kyron. I am not saying he is not involved with RS, but he could not have.
B
Oh, and we also don’t know who was the last to see Ky at school. Because LE is controlling that intel, both by holding it close to the vest and by contributing to confusion through their relationship with the media.
One more DE FACTO: When the media is prohibited or discouraged from publishing their own independently discovered info. by government agencies, we have a DE FACTO government-controlled and no longer “free press”.
lol
B
It is just a reality that the media wants to maintain a good relationship with govt. agencies, including LE, because the media is dependent on them for a lot of info. to publish. Plus, there’s competition among various media outlets to be first, or in the first group, to publish, so that’s a motive to cooperate with govt. restrictions.
But I’m old and I do believe I saw a lot more “free press” action early in my life than I do now. And it worries me. Not just because I’m curious about Ky.
We will all know what happened to Ky when the media is allowed to release it. Or, 3 days earlier, if BOC gets it all and chooses to publish it here. Or, when some rogue reporter at an alternative paper decides to publish whatever he’s found.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/kaine_horman_holding_out_hope.html
I looked at this early, problem is, you will not find him the BOP, anywhere .
B
@Whaazupwitchu:
AS might not talk to our LE because he has far worse to fear from other people than he has from U.S. LE. Our prisons are full of gang members, international ones included, and they appear to operate here as they do in their countries of origin. For a popular media look at that, watch for Nat Geo channel to run their video on world’s worst prisons (see link below for reference). They run it on TV occasionally because everyone is interested in Peru’s Lurigancho prison due to Joran Van Der Sloot.
But, the Nat Geo episode about Lurigancho also covers a Mexican prison. That’s where you’ll hear inmates talk about what they risk from Mex. gangs if they talk. (And even if they don’t)
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/search/?site=default_collection&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=utf-8&search=lurigancho+prison&btnG=
When organized crime gets connected, people get quiet for fear of their family getting tortured and killed. I’ve posted about it here many moons ago.
*****************
BTW, Anselmo’s name is correctly abbreviated ‘ASS’, I believe. But I’ll stick with AS so as not to fan the flames.
Blink: Thank you! So will the material witness become the accused?
@toasty1: It’s no secret what the Mex. cartels are up to. Nat Geo has a good popularized version of it in their weekly Border Wars series. They inserted investigative journalists into ongoing federal border patrol activities. It’s riveting. And strictly off-limits for me now as I prefer to sleep at night. I catch it here Weds at 9pm. New fall series.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/border-wars/all/Overview
Most interesting thing I heard a U.S. border patrol agent say was that in the 15 years he’s been doing the job he’s seen a huge shift from mostly innocent mexicans crossing for a better life here, to predominantly organized crime moving their products into the U.S. Now they’re often using teenagers since they know the U.S. handles their prosecution differently than adults. “Products” being drugs and human beings.
Some chat with the Nat Geo producer is here:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/community/blogs/ngc/_return-of-nick-stein
First I would like to wish all of you a restful and food filled, fun filled Labor Day with your families. May you find some kind of peace for that one day.
Now just to share. I’m on vacation this last week. I asked my daughter if there was anything she wanted to do on her days off. Yep! Go fishing. So we got us fishing poles, licenses and worms. Headed out fishing yesterday. We went on Wednesday also and I was able to avoid going across the Sauvie Island Bridge. But not yesterday. We went out on Oak Island first to our old fishing holes. The Island was extremely quiet. Hardly anyone around that area at all.
Then we decided to move out to the slough area and try fishing there.
Well there has been alot of talk about the Russian Mafia and such on SM of late. As we positioned ourselves between two families. Hispanic (Mother and three boys) on one side, and on the other a Caucasian Famiy on the other ready to fish. The thing I noticed was the Hispanic family was very friendly. The kids cracked me up the whole time. The family on the other side (We were closest to two young boys right next to us) when they spoke it was in Russian. They were not friendly at all. They would point at the little Hispanics boys say something foreign that I couldn’t understand, make faces and then laugh. I don’t know why but this really upset me. They also gave my daughter and I dirty looks that I caught.
That being said I did catch one fish, a throw back my daughter none.
Now she is making plans to go fishing with her Hubby in the very near future. “She is Hooked”. Sorry I couldn’t resist.
@Blink,
I remember now. I think she stated as much in an email that was sent to a local news org. I was / am bothered and intersted to know more about the “unregistered” statement. I would love to know the outcome of the interviews of the children in Kyron’s group. And of course, I would love to know what the chaperon had to say. Male, female? Same one alleged to be in the hallway with Kyron and the two girls? A lie? I just don’t know.
And if the statement is true about the chaperon noticing a child was missing, I would love to know the time this was noted. And if a time was given, how accurate / sure was the person who gave the time? Was an inquiry into a missing child not furthered due to statements made by Kyron’s teacher? And the biggest question of all — what is the status on any Dr. appointments for Kyron Horman?
Thanks for your reply and not necessarily posing more questions for you, but they are questions that nag at me.
Satori-
Terri Horman HERSELF has stated that Kyron was last seen with 2 girls and an unregistered male chaperone. I obviously cannot vet the statement, but she definitely made it.
B
@Cbickel says: September 4, 2010 at 12:19 am
“I’m in the hospital and not able to comment much right now but I’m tryin to keep up with all the post”
@Cbickel says: September 4, 2010 at 12:22 am
“Sorry hit submit by mustake… Must be all the drugs but newsatfive sounds like futureman to me! Lol j/k”
Cbickel: Get well soon! As to my posts sounding like futureman, I’m sure lawyer blah-blah-blahing can be taken a million ways other than English. You are, I’m sure, in good company on this.
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@Madilu says: September 4, 2010 at 2:54 am
“if this had been a true LE/FBI concern of kidnapping from the get-go, then, it would have originated on day 1 -not day 24, after which the prepaid phones were purchased. Additionally, if the primary concern was to not ‘miss a call from a kidnapper’ -then, imo, it stands to reason that LE would certainly have provided access on another phone line ‘as not to miss a call from kidnapper.’ -at the very least, Th could have loaned Tony’s phone. But I do agree with you that, after 23 days of Ky missing, that surely she, ‘needed someone to talk to.’ I just wished that she chose to pick up her cell phone and phone LE.”
The phone company cannot provision (set up) a phone line out of thin air. There has to be a line that the phone company can assign before they can just give the customer an extra line.
This being rural Oregon (even though it’s near a city), there might not be a spare line in the ground. Plus, the reception in that area is awful, so you can’t just forward the house phone to a cell phone.
There’s actually a long history of Qwest (the phone company in Portland) and its epic problems in provisioning phone lines in a timely fashion. Lookup the news articles on the Portland floods. Thousands of people were without phone for extended periods of time. While I’m sure the phone company has done a great deal of work on its infrastructure since then, I doubt that they fixed the rural areas completely. Why? Adding and upgrading capacity in urban and suburban areas is easy to justify as it protects far more people. Northwest Sheltered Nook Road is pretty rural. Do you really think the phone company has added a bunch of T1 lines to that area (MOO, MOO, MOO)?
The fact is we don’t know when the friends bought the “bat phones,” and the story about it being the day Kyron went missing might just be law enforcement giving misinformation in order to elicit information about what exactly happened and when it happened.
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@Dee says: September 4, 2010 at 3:49 am
“I had lunch today with an esteemed law professor at UCLA and talked to him about the Kyron Horman case which he had not been following. I told him that his stepmother had been the last to see him when she took him to school and left him walking down the hallway to his class and then I told him about her previous attempt to have Kaine murdered and my friend said immediately, ‘Oh, she wanted to be the sole heir.’”
Scary. That actually makes sense, except it would be pretty hard to have one kid disappear then have dad show up dead. Terri may be dumb, but she’s not that dumb. What sort of a scenario do you suppose Terri had in mind, and how do you think she intended for it to happen (hypothetically speaking)?