Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Attorneys Call Her A Suspect
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In court papers filed Wednesday, Bunch went further, noting that Terri Horman is a “de facto suspect” in the second-grader’s disappearance…”
Portland, OR- In a voluntary appearance in court yesterday for matters relating to the pending divorce motion by estranged husband Kaine; Terri Horman showed her face for the first time since the week after her stepson, Kyron, vanished from Skyline School.
Although Kaine Horman opted to be represented by his counsel Laura Rackner and not appear personally to protect himself emotionally, according to Rackner, Terri Horman braved the fray.
Arriving with attorneys Peter Bunch and Stephen Houze, the trio was immediately met and escorted by MCSO deputies in “the box” formation to the 5th floor courtroom where local media scurried in from behind. Within 45 minutes, Judge Meisenheimer ruled in Kaine Horman’s favor and granted his request that the issues of the mortgage-sized retainer, allegedly furnished by Terri to Houze and other distribution and custody issues will be heard in a hearing on October 7, denying her request to have the issues bifurcated.
During the proceeding, Bunch argued that his Client cannot properly litigate the divorce and custody actions currently because she is.”..unable to proceed in the ordinary course to protect her rights as to discovery, property division, support and, particularly, custody and parenting time issues.”
In fact, for the first time publicly, we learn a very important detail about the criminal investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
According to her counsel, who would certainly be “in the know”, Terri Horman has NOT been named a suspect by MCSO in Kyron’s case, but she is painfully aware she is one.
Loosely translated, a defacto suspect is an unofficially declared suspect, but for all intents and purposes is definitely the target of the investigative crosshairs.
The Microsaccade Moment
Microsaccades are tiny involuntary movements of the eye generally caused by visual fixation. The result on visual perception can cause the beholder to question if they are “really seeing what they are seeing.”
I had a few of those yesterday while analyzing footage of the day’s events in conjunction with known facts of this case.
They Are:
The MCSO guard detail dispatched at the courthouse assigned to Terri and counsel et al for a family court appearance. I have spoken with a few local family lawyers who do not wish to be identified, with a combined 26 years of practice. None have ever seen this practice in a similar matter in Multnomah County. Specifically, the deputies went inside the actual hearing and waited to escort the trio out the back.
During the hearing, there was not a syllable mentioned about the driving force behind the request for expedition of the case in the first place. The very substantive weight that was used to secure an emergency custody and restraining order, which remains uncontested to date: The Alleged Murder for Hire Plot. Why wouldn’t a family lawyer looking to abate the divorce case strike at the very merits on which the plaintiff’s arguments are based? The plaintiff in this case uses an almost one year old mfh plot allegation, which was not carried out, and no person has been declared a suspect or arrested, to control every filing to date and counsel does not refute the claims therein? What possible reason could that be?
A recent interview with Terri Horman’s son James, in which he states that his Mother cannot have a computer, cell phone, or leave her parents home in Roseburg.
Blink Analysis Editorial: Sealed Criminal Indictment OR Civil Commitment?
A Civil commitment, which would have had to been voluntary, such as a concern for Ms. Horman injuring herself, or some sort of dependency is a possibility, but a highly unlikely one considering she appeared in court yesterday.
Strictly my opinion of course, but based on my microsaccades, I think it is entirely possible that Terri Horman is under a pre-arrest indictment in the matter of the alleged murder for hire plot, or some derivative thereof.
It would certainly be unlikely that she could have been booked and granted bail without a leak, but a sealed indictment, which may or may not include a sealed arrest warrant, would follow Oregon’s propensity to use the grand jury as a form of “preliminary hearing.” In light of the fact that there is an ongoing criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance involving Federal, county and State investigative assets, it would be entirely appropriate.
The public would not know until such time as the indictment and any potentially attached writs are unsealed. Throw in the possibility there is always the chance that Clackamas County may be the charging county for such an offense and not Multnomah.
In which case, this is about to get very interesting. Recall MCSO chief Dan Staton saying Clackamas County Major Crimes Team is involved in the case? That would suggest at least part of a crime has been established in their jurisdiction. Rudy Sanchez resides in Clackamas County.
Clackamas County District Attorney John Foote and Criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze are well acquainted. You might say that Foote owes his very job to Houze in a way-
John Foote lost as the incumbent DA in 1996 to his own deputy district attorney Terese “Terry” Gustafson. Terry was in the middle of fighting an Oregon Bar complaint at the time which cleared her name just days before the inauguration.
The embattled DA did not take long to be the subject of more ethics violations including felony perjury charges for lying to a circuit judge about releasing the file of a juvenile that was ordered to be destroyed. Gustafson was disbarred.
Who filed the Bar complaint who also represented the accused boy who was subsequently acquitted?
Who was the prosecuting attorney for the Oregon Bar?
Stephen Houze.
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@GraceintheHills: thanks very much for your response. It IS very helpful to me in my thinking.
@MockingbirdSings: thanks to you also. I see your tracking the LE info. to the family and I think you’ve got the timeline.
You said, “For a case where everyone said LE was really using the media, it seems rather quiet.” Well, I kept watching the early press releases from MCSO after a family statement, denying that the info. came from LE. I was trying to evaluate that–several possibilities for the denial, of course.
Looking back, I think the FAMILY has mostly been the ones using the media. LE just directly steps in to ask for public’s help through the media when they want to. Now I see KH taking more care to point out the source of the family’s conclusions–and it’s not from LE.
Getting back on track with “sources” is helpful.
I do what little I can do. And I’m sure MSM reporters are excited to get emails from me (hah)! But I just had to fire an email off to the reporter who wrote a piece about Mayor Ogden of Tualatin, in which he quoted the Mayor, in part:
“I spoke to Billy Leverence at the time[18 mos. prior, when Leverence's computer was seized] and he assured me this was an accident and would not happen again. Since he had lived in my house for more than 5 years at that time, and I knew his kids, we ran Hood to Coast and marathons together, he was almost like part of the family. Therefore I believed him. I did stress that I will not tolerate any type of inappropriate activity, and certainly nothing illegal….
“Yesterday I received a telephone call while on a layover at the Denver airport. The reporter informed me that Billy was arrested and asked for my comments. Of course I was shocked, and disgusted, and completely taken off guard, as this is absolutely horrible.”
Link: http://www.oregonlive.com/tualatin/index.ssf/2010/06/tualatin_mayor_lou_ogden_running_for_fifth_term_despite_housemates_child_porn_case.html
***********
I told the reporter that I’d like to see some followup on several apparently unrelated items, including: where/what foreign countries Mayor Ogden spends so much time in; whether there’s any connection between Ky’s disappearance and the alleged activities of William Dana Leverence (the mayor’s friend ‘Billy’/kids’ playmate/tenant/alleged possessor of child porn); etc.
BTW, I just checked, saw all the counts against “Billy”, and Washington Cty jail still shows him in residence there.
Concerning the articles on Jason Doering above, I have no idea if he’s related to anyone from the MKH site and Blink, I know this is O/T but just wanted to clarify that Mr. Doering was actually found in that condition the weekend of Aug 15, not this past weekend (Sept. 5). I’ve read quite a bit on kgw.com while following Kyron’s case that has not been accurate so I’ve determined that info found there requires my own fact checking to rely on (moreso than any of the other outlets in the area).
http://www.kptv.com/news/24848966/detail.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/portland_police_ask_for_public.html
43.GraceintheHills says:
September 6, 2010 at 1:24 am
Who does that leave? Who could have helped TH? WHO??
Lawn Care – Fall Clean Up
Citysearch User 5 RS Landscape Maintenance
The crew of three showed up and got to work immediately. Within minutes they had done more than I could do all day. They understood my needs and asked great questions about what I wanted. I don’t know how else to put it except to say they were very polite and articulate. I left the decisions to them and they made the whole front and back yard look amazing. Extremely happy with the service.
http://www.insiderpages.com/b/15246758898/rs-landscape-maintenance-canby
Wonder who the third member of the crew is?
@annals: I couldn’t find a list of admin. at Missing KH. Sure you’ve got the correct spelling for Merrie Doering??
Annals says:
September 5, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Annals, WOW! Well done! That took a lot of work on your part and is much appreciated. I do believe you’ve given all of us a big piece of info. to consider. Thank you, I’m digging in already.
@annals, Idahogal, others:
how are we doing with Jason and Merrie Doering?
annals: I found an entry by Merrie at MKH Facebook. I found a Merrie D grad. Roosevelt High @ ’67-’71. Would be about right age for this Merrie (IIRC 57-59). Fast/sloppy details here–forgive. Will tie down if worth pursuing.
Found Jason T. Doering, Portland, OR, but only business address–IF this is dead man:
http://www.manta.com/c/mm59wg7/jason-t-doering
But something rings a bell about a concrete (?) contractor who Kaine thanked early on as a volunteer. Then, might be wrong; there’s a ton of those around anyhow. Can’t get a name to link up as to that lead.
S says:
September 6, 2010 at 12:57 am
S, I think what you are planning here is so great! The fact that you are taking so much time and putting forth all of this effort just touches my heart. Thank you so much. I eagerly await your findings and do be safe about it. God bless you.
OBIT for Jason T Doering. Same business I linked above:
http://www.tributes.com/show/Jason-Doering-89188546
Also, let me check on names thru Dawn, sister who left mgs. online where obit was listed:
You are in my thoughts every moment of every day. I know that you are here with me in spirit because I feel you walking beside me, but it does not take the pain away. I wish that I could have told you I loved you before you left, I can never tell you how sorry I’am for not letting you know that you were special to me. I’m sorry my brother.
Love, your sissy
Posted by: Dawn Doering Portland, OR – sister Sep 02, 2010
This is an interesting article regarding Michael Cook. If LE is suspicious about RS and DDS role in Ky’s disappearance, I surely hope they are fully investigating MC. Did MC appear before the GJ?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5584242/kyron_horman_news_was_michael_cook_pg2.html?cat=41
Here: Veromi shows Merrie V. Doering as relative of Gary Doering. On earlier condolences msgs. left, one friend talked about Jason T. Doering’s dad, Gary. Got a possible link. Both MD and GD are in late fifties.
Here’s the admin. for Missing Kyron Horman–at her own Facebook pg:
http://www.facebook.com/KlearwaterKatt
Here’s her posting as admin. for MKH:
http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=125336750831264&share_id=145011998866041&comments=1
@ al miller and anyone who has kids in their life – also has questions about nannies!
Excellent advice from the wonderful Gavin de Becker, author of The Gift of Fear, and now with new book about kids. He is the top predictor of violence (and therefore helps prevent it)
https://www.gavindebecker.com/resources/child_safety/questions_about_child_safety/
lol, I am just vaguely familiar with Mr. deBecker.
B
GraceintheHills says:
September 6, 2010 at 2:11 am
GraceintheHills, I found your response to beejay’s questions extremely well written and thought out. I really appreciate it, as I have had the exact same question(s) for quite some time. I also believe that Kaine, DY and TY have drawn some conclusions based on what friends and acquaintances have told them since Ky’s disappearance.
********************************************************
I would very much like to know what TH may have told Houze (who wouldn’t?), and what his responsibilities are based on what he knows. This is bugging the crap out of me. I’ve read a lot about client/attorney privilege, including posts here on BOC. I just find it to be such a gray area! At this point I am under the impression that if there is an “ongoing crime” the attorney can be forced by the courts to reveal what they know. Surely Ky’s disappearance is an ongoing crime and would qualify?
Here are some questions that I would LOVE some help with:
IF Houze knows that Ky is with God, does this mean he doesn’t have to do or say anything at this point?
IF TH knows where Ky is and has shared same with Houze, at what point would he be required to disclose this information to LE? When she is arrested in connection with Ky’s disappearance and/or demise? Never?
IF there is a sealed indictment against TH (for MFH or Ky) would he at that point counsel her to put forth a plea bargain? Can a plea bargain be sealed?
Does he meet with her and say “Don’t tell me anything right now, I don’t want to know at this point.”?
Please excuse me if I seem to be rambling, I’m just really upset about this. I understand the “innocent until proven guilty” laws, but it sure seems like there is a huge, gaping hole in the system and this case is an excellent example of that. There oughta’ be a law! Kaine and DY expressed EXTREME frustration about this during their last interviews and damn right! It is so wrong! Can anyone help me here?! Please?
All of this is MOO, I’m just in need of some clarification.
I saw one of those made-for-tv movies where the mother-in-law put a hit out on her son-in-law because she didn’t think he was good enough for her daughter. The hit man was a sort of creepy guy who was on parole but he apparently did not want to go back to jail so he went to the police. The police then set it up to appear as though the son-in-law had in fact been killed but they really had him hidden somewhere. Then the proceeded to trap the mother-in-law, by having her meet up with hit man for the money (the hit man was wired and they recorded it).
It just got me thinking about some of the previous comments here today – how DY and KH seem to just KNOW something and aren’t just stating things out of hope. They just seem so calm, and make no pleas whatsoever to whomever they think might be “keeping” Kyron, just a plea to TH to tell all she knows…
Wouldn’t it be the wildest thing if Kyron is actually safe somewhere and the police don’t want anyone except the parents to know that? They may be waiting this out to try to trap the perpetrator(s). This could explain the detective crying at the presser – he saw Kyron reunited with his parents at some secret location….could also explain why DY slipped and said Kyron was out at the truck, because HE told her he was…and why Kaine is buying school supplies…it could explain many things – the weirdness of the case, the lack of info from LE…
IDK it’s far-fetched, but I’m tired of imagining the worst scenarios so I thought for once I would put a good one out there.
@beejay, I’m researching Jason Doering info. right now, will let you know.
@IdahoGal: these are the questions that plague me as well.
What if…Related to the Jim Kelley sightings of White Truck on the afternoon, and late night, of Kyron’s disappearance…Suppose someone, on behalf of TH, was supposed to take a sedated child to the area near the school & leave him there, to be found by searchers or TH, but was unable to complete the assignment due to being spotted by the property owner? They returned again, at roughly midnight, with the same result. At this point all bets are off, they were willing to go only so far for TH, after that, things spiralled out of control. Hey T, what the h___ am I gonna do with this kid??!! So in reality, she may be truthful in saying she doesn’t know where he is, but she damn sure knows what got the ball rolling. My theory only ~ no hard facts to back it up.
In addition…TH may have fully expected searchers to find him in that area after school, after all, she had it all planned. Immagin her shock when that didn’t happen!
Oops – imagine
Hey people, I am up here at 30,000 feet and here is the view: Cloudy, very cloudy.
20.twinkletoes says:
September 6, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Hey people, I am up here at 30,000 feet and here is the view: Cloudy, very cloudy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Love it, Twink!
Very cloudy, indeed. Feels like I am flying blind.
Chiapet517 – I hear you. I have had the same thought and hope, that Ky is safe and has been found, and LE is just trying to set a trap. It is far fetched, but it would be so wonderful! I hope there are no hard feelings between us, I was very grumpy the other night and did not mean to take it out on you, so I’m sorry. I will not give up hope for him and I’m glad that you are keeping the candle lit, too.
I’m probably not the only one, but I looked at the Landscape Contractors Board website again. http://www.oregon.gov/LCB/maintenance.shtml
I searched for RS’s company by state, county (all 3), phone number, zipcode, and name of company and name of owner(s). The Board only lists those with active licenses. I thought even if Rudy was not working now, he might have had employees or maybe relatives that would have continued to work under his business name. Even if he were not actively working, his information would still show if he had an active license. And if the name of the company changed, it should show the old name somewhere also.
So either Rudy never had a license (it seems like that would have come out long ago, plus he got himself listed with Service Magic but I don’t have a lot of faith in them to check what people tell them), or he didn’t renew his license. Or I missed it somehow in all those searches – Or it was pulled for some reason, although I can’t think of one right now.
While I am on the subject of licenses, I would like to share something that was a big shock to me about 2 years ago. This is in regard to contractor’s licensing although it probably applies to others as well – at least in Oregon. A contractor’s license means you have passed a written exam and paid your fee. The written exam is about the business/legal requirements side of the business, not whether you know when to use a nail and when to use a screw or anything else relating to building. The person I personally know was taking a beginning construction class at a community college. He was having a lot of trouble learning the test material so he had a relative take the test and then (to keep it legal) become a part (small) owner of the business since only one of the owners passing is enough to get the license. This man was also on probation as a sex offender (child under 16). He got his license, started advertising, and got jobs. Unfortunately, he was/is also a meth user and ended up only partially doing jobs, “borrowing” people’s tools and selling them, and keeping money he hadn’t earned. Complaints started to come in and he was fined an amount which he never paid so his license was suspended. He happens to be in jail for a parole violation now, but if he wanted to in the future, and paid his fine, he could do it all again.
I thought if you had a “license” that allowed you to go into people’s homes or on their property to do remodeling or repairs or whatever, that at least a background check would be done. Nope. No background checks, no skills testing. How many parents would allow their responsible teenager to open the house to a contractor to do contracted work if they were unable to be there? And how many leave a key for them to use?
I’m sure there are many trustworthy, skillful contractors and landscapers, but having an industry license does NOT verify that. If I had a shady background and couldn’t get a job because of it, I’d set up my own company, get a license, and start doing any job I could – deck staining, tree pruning, for example. All I have to do is not get caught doing anything illegal, not take a job I can’t do at all, and just keep renewing my license. It isn’t even that expensive.
I am not opposed to giving people jobs and opportunities if they have convictions on their record, but I think the term “license” is misleading and that these people need to work in supervised jobs without access to the homes of people who are unaware. A “license” should offer at least some degree of protection to the public or not be called a license, IMO.
RS has an active and current license for his business.
B
@ twinkletoes – are you in a holding pattern?
@rmack –
Eureka! Your idea makes total sense to me. In fact, it’s the only idea that helps explain something that’s been bugging me from the beginning.
Desiree said TH was “surprised” when Desiree said she’d be immediately driving up to Portland once the school informed her and after having a chance to speak to TH. Who on earth would be surprised by a mother driving up once she realized her child had been missing all day? Only someone who was “in the know” about what was really going on.
TH’s whole demeanor, words and actions in the hours and days that followed said to me she wasn’t worried about Kyron, because she knew what was supposed to have had happened to him, if not exactly where he was.
Consider: she lagged behind when Kaine and Kiara went to the bus stop to pick up Kyron; her surprise at Desiree deciding to drive up; the whole going to the gym thing (I know a lot of people defended this, but for enough of us, this action rang false); something about posting about clean sheets? (not sure if this one was rumor). The phone purchase and sexting is beyond my understanding but certainly doesn’t speak to someone concerned for Kyron’s safety.
Your theory also explains TH’s CYA actions – such as posting Kyron’s picture so quickly and the misinformation with the doctor appt. She had planned something hideous – but ultimately and tragically, things didn’t go exactly according to plan, and the hideous turned into the unspeakable.
Anyway, thanks for your theory rmack. For me, that initial surprise expressed to Desiree has always spoken volumes.
@Lyla,
OK…I’m back on the teeter-totter! It was obviously my perception that MC was basically dismissed. And I actually developed an impression that he was trying to assist LE, Kaine, et al.
sigh…
lyla says:
September 6, 2010 at 12:10 pm
This is an interesting article regarding Michael Cook. If LE is suspicious about RS and DDS role in Ky’s disappearance, I surely hope they are fully investigating MC. Did MC appear before the GJ?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5584242/kyron_horman_news_was_michael_cook_pg2.html?cat=41
According to ancestry.com Gary and Merrie resided together in Brightwood, OR back in 1997 and he is listed as her Spouse. Most address databases will show them both on the same record. It appears she was married previously so was probably Jason T. Doering’s step mother.
Source Citation: City: Brightwood; State: Oregon; Year(s): 1997
ChiaPet517 says:
September 6, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Wouldn’t it be the wildest thing if Kyron is actually safe somewhere and the police don’t want anyone except the parents to know that? They may be waiting this out to try to trap the perpetrator(s). This could explain the detective crying at the presser – he saw Kyron reunited with his parents at some secret location….could also explain why DY slipped and said Kyron was out at the truck, because HE told her he was…and why Kaine is buying school supplies…it could explain many things – the weirdness of the case, the lack of info from LE…
**********************************************************************
I like your theory. Way better than the one running around in my head.
Madilu says:
September 5, 2010 at 4:30 pm
“I don’t mean to be picking on you -really. When I see “there’s a REPORT” -my assumption is that this is information reported y either LE or a news source. What does “report” mean to you in this context? As far as I have gathered, this information about TH hiding came from an anonymous commenter on OL named freeadvice11. Until it is actually “reported” -i.e. by reputable news source (fwiw) or LE, then I consider that tidbit to be the work of a troll. But hey, I certainly hope that it is true, that several kids saw her there -now wouldn’t that just blow her out of the water. We’ll see what develops!”
The “report” regarding Terri hiding was a post on August 27, 2010, from “freeadvice11″ on Oregonlive.com:
http://connect.oregonlive.com/user/freeadvice11/comments-3.html
This “report” was re-posted to this site by Lazydog1 on August 30, 2010, who questioned its veracity. There were other posts discussing the allegation that Terri was hiding as well.
I was incorrect in saying “under” the stairs. The report was Terri was hiding downstairs. That’s a huge difference.
As you might have gathered from my post, there was not any news story nor any sort of official report, hence why I was questioning its veracity. There was no named source, and the allegation supposedly came from a non-public report. So, where exactly would this person have gotten such information?
Another post (on August 26, 2010) from freeadvice11 claimed that “Tanner saw and talked to Kyron as he was walking downstairs…..once downstairs Kyron followed Terri’s instructions and met her at the truck.”
http://connect.oregonlive.com/user/freeadvice11/comments-4.html
Note that this does not say that Tanner heard Terri give Kyron any directions to go to the truck, nor does it say that Tanner saw Kyron meet Terri at the truck. As you may recall, Tanner stated in a news interview (for KOIN, IIRC) that he saw Kyron after Terri had left the school.
Although the August 27 post does not mention the grand jury, it does state that the child had gone “gone on the record with LE that he said they saw Terri, ‘hiding downstairs before the bell rang.’” A prior post from the same author claims that Tanner [Pumala] walked with Kyron downstairs, where Kyron “followed Terri’s instructions and met her at the truck.”
If freedadvice11 is claiming that Tanner heard Terri’s alleged instructions to Kyron, or saw Kyron go to Terri’s truck, then this statement conflicts with Tanner’s prior statements to the media that he saw Kyron after Terri left.
The idea that Tanner might — emphasis on “might” — be saying something different would not surprise me. His father’s house was searched, and I have no doubt that he has also been exposed to statements made by others regarding this matter, all of which can change a child’s memory of an event or otherwise shape testimony.
Although the August 27 post does not mention the grand jury, the August 26 post strongly suggests that Tanner is the child who made that report.
The post also mentions that the child went “on the record” with law enforcement, but does not mention a grand jury. Portland news stations reported that the grand jury has heard from at least one child — a 9-year-old boy — from Kyron’s school. (Tanner was supposedly 8 years old when he talked to KOIN. He may have had a birthday since then.) Or, it could have been Kurtis Holm/Kurtis Villarreal, who was photographed at the science fair with Kyron. (I cannot find any information on Kurtis’ age. Anyone want to chime in on this?)
As of August 8, the grand jury has issued hundreds of subpoenas and had heard from “more than a dozen” witnesses:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Investigators-search-Portland-kyron-Skyline-school-100195694.html
Given that Tanner has told the FBI he saw Kyron at the school that morning with Terri, I would be shocked if he has not testified.
Regardless, the allegation — no matter how tenuous — was that the a child told law enforcement that he saw Terri hiding downstairs. I would love to hear from freeadvice11 as to why s/he is so convinced that the information s/he posted is true.
I would also love to hear from anyone who attended the parents-only meeting at Skyline Elementary the other night as to what was discussed, and also whether any members of the media attended. I am having a very difficult time imagining that there would be any practical way to have a total blackout on any release of information to the media, given that news reporters, editors, and producers would almost certainly have friends and family members involved at that school.
Anyone know about the Albertsons surveillance tapes that were handed over to law enforcement?
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/98147474.html
I can’t recall reading that Terri claimed that she went to Albertsons. Anyone know how that store ended up in the mix?
Also, which Albertsons are we talking about here, anyway?
If desiree had:
Shown no emotion at the first press conference, we would wonder about her.
If desiree had: Never once said I miss kyron, we would be suspect
If desiree had: Failed two and walked out of one polygraph, we would be suspiscious
If desiree was sexting and sending naked pics of herself to someone she hardly knows, not long after her sons disapearance, even though she was married, we would think, wow she doesn’t even care? She must have a sexual problem, who is like that when their child is missing?
If an old aquaintance of desirees came forward and said, oh wow couple months ago she asked me if I would kill kaine, I never thought she might be serious! We would think, wow its possible, what kind of mother is this?
If desiree had: said, oh kyron was having like mini seizures, sometimes he would just wander off, and then explained how she last left him walking down a hall with no adult around an hour before school started, we would think, hmmm alibi or neglect, you choose.
If she and her friend boasted about talking outside so le couldn’t hear them, we would be suspiscious indeed.
If her friend got a lawyer and didn’t speak to the grand jury without immunity, wow suspiscious? yep
If desiree had: asked/allowed her new boyfriend to break a sealed restraining order, by photographing it, thus revealing her spouses address, we would wonder if she was still interested in offing her spouse.
If desiree had: hired (and boasted about it) a very expensive criminal attorney, we would pretty much agree that she was acting guilty.
If desiree had: suddenly lost custody and had no visitation with her remaining child, and refused to speak even at that hearing, we would say, oh wow, she is definitely acting like a criminal.
If it came out that desiree had a conviction for driving drunk with a child in the car, we might think that the safety of her OWN child was not important to her….why would the safety of KYRON be important to her.
If desiree’s friends were found to have bought her untracable cell phones, we would think, gees what is next?this chick is going to jail, soon I hope.
If desiree was withholding information, whether it is related to the disappearance of this child or not, thereby impeding the investigation, We would be so frustrated and revulsed that she would put her own welfare above that of her child. People might even say: don’t blame it on her attorney. I have never heard an attorney say “don’t say a single word”. If anything, they draw up a carefully planned speech to present a perceived innocence. Even that, at this point, would be better than the silence.
If desiree young had only done a few of these things we would be pretty suspiscious.. If she did all of them, we would be pretty sure she was guilty.
But desiree young did none of these things. Instead she has shown the world she puts the welfare of kyron above all else. and people wonder why lots of people suspect terri horman?
Stars says: July 9, 2010 at 11:15 am
If she does not do the right thing, which in my opinion her attorney has advised her will result in the loss of her liberties, she will leave her daughter with a legacy no child should be saddled with. She will leave the siblings of little Kyron with a hurt and hate that no child should ever know. B
Blink, Are you saying that Terri’s attorney has advised her NOT do the right thing? Although, as her attorney he would want to do the best for her, it seems s he would want to do the best for a little boy also. If he knows Kyron is alive somewhere would he tell LE?. If Terri gives her attorney information that could help find Kyron, would the attorney tell LE??? If he had a conscious, he would, right?
Houze has one job. Terri Horman and the zealous representation of her under the Supreme Court of Oregon. B
For those asking this question…. Stars
I decided to Google “landscaping business and organized crime” together to see what came up. Here are 4 examples and some excerpts from each article or newsletter. My idea was to see how others might be using a landscaping business for a cover and to see how widespread the problem is. Apparently it works quite well – until you get caught – and the landscaping business is useful in lots of ways. Perhaps undercover work as well?
http://www.allbusiness.com/crime-law-enforcement-corrections/criminal-offenses-crimes/12636716-1.html
AZUSA – Authorities said a local landscaper who allegedly boasted of his ties to a Mexican drug cartel suggests the influence of organized crime runs deep in the San Gabriel Valley.
Edgardo “Primo” Prado, 26, was one of four men, including two San Gabriel Valley residents, arrested last week after a 10-month federal investigation into an alleged gun and drug ring operating throughout the Valley. The recent arrest of these men who are connected to high-powered and dangerous cartels suggests that the influence of criminal enterprises such as the Mongols Motorcycle Club, the Mexican Mafia and drug cartels based in Mexico is more prevalent locally than residents may realize.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/eveningnews/main5407354.shtml
Four rival Mexican drug cartels have dug in along Atlanta’s interlocking highways, a shipping link to the rest of America. “I classify Atlanta as a strategic operations center for Mexican organized crime,” said Rodney G. Benson, Special Agent in Charge of the Atlanta DEA. “They were able to blend right in and establish metro Atlanta as that strategic trans-shipment point.”
“For [Gilberto] Alcaraz, it’s a family business. CBS News footage shows his 13-year-old son settling a drug debt with a woman. Gilberto’s house is low-key considering that . . . he earns $50,000 a week. Whipple [DEA Field Supervisor] said, “They’re going to drive the beat-up pickup, and they’re going to try to look like they’re running a landscaping business.”
http://www.ice.gov/doclib/pi/cornerstone/pdf/csr110.pdf
Ajoint investigation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) into drug trafficking at the Southwest border revealed a multimillion dollar money laundering organization, utilizing multiple companies, and numerous bank accounts, to launder narcotic proceeds. This case study demonstrates methodologies used for laundering criminal proceeds.
Prior to opening an investigation, ICE learned that Oscar Oropeza paid for a building connected to his landscaping business with two cash payments. The first payment was $221,000, and the second was for approximately $120,000, both of which consisted of primarily $20 bills.
http://www.newsherald.com/news/money-3732-police-mamadjanov.html
Authorities have indicted six men who police said were part of an organized crime ring responsible for Internet scams, money laundering and copyright infringement.
Mamadjanov registered a fake landscaping business with the state, created business bank accounts using the Social Security numbers of dead people and then used stolen information to transfer money from the victims’ accounts to his own. Mamadjanov made $80,000 on two victims, Infoworld reported. Paskalov is described as Mamadjanov’s friend and partner who used a similar tactic to bilk victims out of $170,000.
Local authorities said the six-man crime ring had connections as far away as California. In 2007, The Fresno Bee reported Arshakyan sent money to California to help a different organized crime group begin money-laundering and theft operations.
This is my stance:
At first glance, pure common sense makes me want to say Terri Moulton Horman is guilty as sin. And not just guilty, mean, mean, mean, evil, evil, evil.
My very critical thinking tells me….NOT SO FAST! Live long enough, find yourself in positions that provide insight, and you see things that you believe should not happen in our justice system. Torn in Oregon.
I wish there was something meaningful I could contribute to help solve this case. Every day and night, I check in on a couple of sites hoping to find a miracle.
Truly heartbreaking. And I know it is not just this case that matters in the quest for a certain kind of justice. I am simply not equipped on so many levels to delve into them all like so many of you do — especially those like Blink.
justthinking says:
September 6, 2010 at 6:14 pm
And there you have it in a nutshell. I just don’t understand how anyone can see it any other way.
Yeah Yeah – I know…unleash the lawyers.
CraP! I want her arrested already!!!
I found this while reading Atty Stephen Houze website. It is very interesting and this is just a small snip of that page linked here. It is titled: Minding The Media.
Defense counsel’s view
Defense attorney Stephen Houze has, in recent years, become the closest thing Portland has to a ‘celebrity attorney.’ His clients have included Trail Blazers guard Damon Stoudamire and auto mogul Scott Thomason.
But Houze says that an attorney who represents celebrities ‘can’t be a self-promoter or a huckster. I feel very strongly about that,’ he says.
Houze says that in his experience, celebrity status can cut against a defendant, rather than in his or her favor.
‘I think it (celebrity) can impact decision makers in the system,’ he observes. ‘Celebrity gives the case an artificial magnitude it otherwise doesn’t deserve. It’s a higher hurdle to get ordinary treatment. That’s not to say that it happens in every case, but it does happen.’
Houze, who has been a defense attorney for over 30 years, says he’s seen a change in how the media covers criminal cases.
http://www.shouze.com/display-cases.asp?artID=7
@justthinking says:
September 6, 2010 at 6:14 pm
If desiree had:
Shown no emotion at the first press conference, we would wonder about her.
If desiree had: Never once said I miss kyron, we would be suspect
If desiree had: Failed two and walked out of one polygraph, we would be suspiscious…….”
Dead on! Wonder what kind of response you would get with that post at FB THSP…lol….
beejay – I haven’t found anything new on Jason Doering, I suspect there will be additional info. and obit in tomorrow’s papers and on news.
Ode – I posted the landscaper link awhile back too, but didn’t see that comment. Thanks for sharing, indeed, whom is #3? Relevant? I don’t know how we could find out, do you? There aren’t any names attached to the references that I could see, either.
Kyron’s Bday is Thursday, same as my Grandma’s. I cried again today and said my prayers. God bless you, little buddy.
I’ve only posted here a couple of times, but read Blink’s blog about Kyron daily. I posted this on another blog but didn’t get much response..lol.. probably because it is so long… I just can’t get this out of my mind.
After listening several times to a particular portion of part two (8/27 interview with Kaine and DY) I am struck by four things…. 1) It sounds to me like both Kaine and DY repeatedly refer to more than one possible witness seeing Kryon outside the school near the truck. 2) Was it a man who spotted Kyron near the truck? 3) Are we to dispel the speculation that there might have been more than one white truck involved? It was clear in this interview that (according to a witness) that he/she saw Kyron outside the school near Kaine’s white truck. 4) It seems that Kaine wants to, but seems hesitant to “get his hopes up” … Hopes up about what? Could this new evidence point to Kyron still being alive?
Excerpts from Raw Video… part two of interview http://www.kgw.com/video?id=101688128&sec=547987
Starting at exactly 2:46
Reporter: The truck! Cause that’s another thing that’s important.. There is more evidence that came out about a white truck… potentially one person, in the truck…
>>>And then at exactly 2:40-39- I swear, after listening to it about seven times, I hear the reporter quickly say “three people” (am I hearing things?) >>>>
Before she continues with…the white truck, Terri’s truck,
DY: Kaine’s truck (laughing)
Reporter: Kaines truck…I’m sorry I just don’t want to miss anything, I know we have to go, cause that’s important.. that’s new, information..
DY: Yeah
Reporter: What are your thoughts on that new information?
DY: It just makes me feel stronger that there were PEOPLE helping her that Kyron saw it all and was involved and that there were other PEOPLE helping her. Which is what we suspected.
>>>>>> Note: DY didn’t say another person, she said “other people” twice.
Reporter: So because, but do you believe that a man spotted, I mean again, these were witness accounts and I don’t know how much information you’ve been privy to about, what the likely… What is the likely scenario?
(>>>>>> witness accounts … as in plural..and did a “man spot” Kyron at the truck?)
>>>>>>>Skip to 1:20 of interview:
Kaine breaths in and interrupts with….
Kaine: So, I think to be more direct about it, I think that LE needs to determine that still…we’ve been briefed on a lot of the information and the tips and the things they are looking into, and that was part of that bucket of tips they are working their way through. Until they confirm and until they bring some of that information forward to the greater public they’re still looking into it. So, I think us commenting on that it is a little bit premature. There is the way we feel about it, and there is the facts…
Reporter: How do you feel about it?
Kaine: How do I feel about it? I feel it is definitely significant, I don’t know how credible the SOURCES are, I am hoping THEY are, because it helps us to bring more of those pieces that we talked about before, of the puzzle, in to paint the bigger picture.. but until THEY’RE confirmed, I am not going to maintain a sense of false hope that THEY are valid until THEY are actually valid, until I see THEM and get from LE that yep this is verified, this is airtight, this is another piece that we found.. and then I will believe it.
>>>I hope with all my heart that this new information is leading them to believe that Kyron is indeed alive and as DY says, “Stashed somewhere”
Blink – may I respectfully ask who gave Rudy his license if not the Oregon Landscape Contractors Board? Even if I ask for every contractor’s business name in Oregon that has an R and an S in it, I don’t see it on the list. It’s not that I don’t believe you, I just can’t figure out why you see it, but my search doesn’t find it.
http://www.oregon.gov/LCB/index.shtml
other note: I forgot to include before that you need insurance (bond) to be a licensed contractor of any kind but that isn’t hard to get. That’s probably an assumption most people would make.
@newsatfive – The Albertson’s at Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy and Shattuck Rd. is the one that reportedly turned over surveillance tapes. This Albertson’s was in the initial timeline released in early July. I have been wondering about how this Albertson’s fits in for a while considering it is so far away from school. I have seen little mention of this since the timeline with the two FM’s was released. Here is a KATU link with a little more info on that first timeline.
http://www.katu.com/news/99151549.html
@Mockingbirdsings – I also went to the Oregon Landscape Contractors Board site about a week ago and could not find RS, but then I came across a page describing the difference between “Landscape Contracting” and “Landscape Maintenance.” Here is a quote from the FAQ – “Do I need a Landscape Contractors Board business license to do yard/landscape maintenance? Landscape maintenance is not presently a state-regulated trade. However, you should check with your city or county for local requirements.”
It looks like if they use “Maintenance” in their company name and only do that type of work, they don’t need a Landscape Contractors license. IIRC the name of his company is RS Landscape Maintenance.
http://www.oregon.gov/LCB/maintenance.shtml#Difference_Between_contracting_and_maintenance
Hi Blink-
Are your inside sources giving you any indication that answers are coming together in this case?
@Satori — MYSELF!!!!!!!!!!!
In addition to a portion of my previous post, I forgot to add–
BLINK AND BLINKETTS — YOU PEOPLE ARE ROCKSTARS!!!!!!!!!!!!
My bad.
===============================================================
“I am simply not equipped on so many levels to delve into them all like so many of you do — especially those like Blink.”
Dirty Harry is on AMC tonight. Just saw the ending scenes where he shoots the kidnapper/murderer in the leg at the football stadium and the scumbag starts asking for his lawyer. Harry just starts stepping on the wound, asking “Where’s the girl?” No wasting precious time or dollars – just get the info and give Kyron’s poor mama some sense of resolution, whatever it is.
@MockingbirdSings: Your link to the CBS story hits home–literally. I live in the same county as Gilberto Alcaraz, the “landscaper” drug distributor. Local LE says that 2 rival gangs, one Guatemalan, have moved into my neighborhood.
We have circling police helicopters; police have come up my street with canines in tow; gunshots fired; you name it. And so, a middle class, educated, and rapidly aging old woman (me) is at all times within 3 seconds of a firearm, and regularly goes for target practice. I have a concealed carry permit and keep a small pistol in my car, which can also go on my person/in a handbag.
I have recently had to crouch behind our truck in the driveway, weapon drawn, while some suspicious activity was going on in the street. We will be moving soon. I researched detailed crime statistics before we chose the new locale. None of us can really run away from this, though. It truly is everywhere, and we have to confront it.
__________
BUT, did you see the good news, that came out the day after CBS ran the one you linked to? Washington, D.C DEA office’s issued a press release. The good guys did REAL good! Multiple LE agencies, working for 44 months, on Project Coronado, encompassing 19 states, in conjunction with officials in Mexico (current Pres. there is actually waging his own war against the cartels, which are probably planning a govt. coup, given all the weapons they’re bringing in; so far, he’s living to tell the tale. Fed. LE thinks La Familia’s aim is to convert all the drug profits into weapons purchases, a lot of them military grade. Not what you need for a Sat. nite shootout).
“To date, Project Coronado has led to the arrest of 1,186 individuals and the seizure of approximately $33 million in U.S. currency, 1,999 kilograms of cocaine, 2,730 pounds of methamphetamine, 29 pounds of heroin, 16,390 pounds of marijuana, 389 weapons, 269 vehicles, and two clandestine drug labs.
“Multi-agency investigations such as Project Coronado are the key to disrupting the operations of complex criminal organizations like La Familia…” said FBI Director Mueller.
http://blackhole.xerces.com/showthread.php?t=16323
@Justthinking –
Actually, if I had heard/read all of those alleged things about Desiree, dreamed up by you, I would wonder why I would not have heard DIRT on all other parents / parnters / etc.
I understand serious hindsight, but ……. I can’t ignore all of it where it may apply in reality to this case.
justthinking = nobobysside (posting on KATU)
http://intensedebate.com/people/nobodysside
thought it was funny to read an exactly same posting in two different places (nobodysside/justthinking)
If I get the nerve to send a private email to Blink, I think I understand that it is signified by ***Private***, Is this correct?
Yes
B
sjso says:
September 6, 2010 at 8:48 pm
I swear, after listening to it about seven times, I hear the reporter quickly say “three people” (am I hearing things?)
————————————————-
The interviewer does say, three people at that exact point. I surmise that she heard from someone that LE may have 3 witnesses to an unidentified man associated with the Horman truck outside the school that morning and that at least one of them is saying Kyron was outside near the truck, too.