Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Attorneys Call Her A Suspect
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In court papers filed Wednesday, Bunch went further, noting that Terri Horman is a “de facto suspect” in the second-grader’s disappearance…”
Portland, OR- In a voluntary appearance in court yesterday for matters relating to the pending divorce motion by estranged husband Kaine; Terri Horman showed her face for the first time since the week after her stepson, Kyron, vanished from Skyline School.
Although Kaine Horman opted to be represented by his counsel Laura Rackner and not appear personally to protect himself emotionally, according to Rackner, Terri Horman braved the fray.
Arriving with attorneys Peter Bunch and Stephen Houze, the trio was immediately met and escorted by MCSO deputies in “the box” formation to the 5th floor courtroom where local media scurried in from behind. Within 45 minutes, Judge Meisenheimer ruled in Kaine Horman’s favor and granted his request that the issues of the mortgage-sized retainer, allegedly furnished by Terri to Houze and other distribution and custody issues will be heard in a hearing on October 7, denying her request to have the issues bifurcated.
During the proceeding, Bunch argued that his Client cannot properly litigate the divorce and custody actions currently because she is.”..unable to proceed in the ordinary course to protect her rights as to discovery, property division, support and, particularly, custody and parenting time issues.”
In fact, for the first time publicly, we learn a very important detail about the criminal investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
According to her counsel, who would certainly be “in the know”, Terri Horman has NOT been named a suspect by MCSO in Kyron’s case, but she is painfully aware she is one.
Loosely translated, a defacto suspect is an unofficially declared suspect, but for all intents and purposes is definitely the target of the investigative crosshairs.
The Microsaccade Moment
Microsaccades are tiny involuntary movements of the eye generally caused by visual fixation. The result on visual perception can cause the beholder to question if they are “really seeing what they are seeing.”
I had a few of those yesterday while analyzing footage of the day’s events in conjunction with known facts of this case.
They Are:
The MCSO guard detail dispatched at the courthouse assigned to Terri and counsel et al for a family court appearance. I have spoken with a few local family lawyers who do not wish to be identified, with a combined 26 years of practice. None have ever seen this practice in a similar matter in Multnomah County. Specifically, the deputies went inside the actual hearing and waited to escort the trio out the back.
During the hearing, there was not a syllable mentioned about the driving force behind the request for expedition of the case in the first place. The very substantive weight that was used to secure an emergency custody and restraining order, which remains uncontested to date: The Alleged Murder for Hire Plot. Why wouldn’t a family lawyer looking to abate the divorce case strike at the very merits on which the plaintiff’s arguments are based? The plaintiff in this case uses an almost one year old mfh plot allegation, which was not carried out, and no person has been declared a suspect or arrested, to control every filing to date and counsel does not refute the claims therein? What possible reason could that be?
A recent interview with Terri Horman’s son James, in which he states that his Mother cannot have a computer, cell phone, or leave her parents home in Roseburg.
Blink Analysis Editorial: Sealed Criminal Indictment OR Civil Commitment?
A Civil commitment, which would have had to been voluntary, such as a concern for Ms. Horman injuring herself, or some sort of dependency is a possibility, but a highly unlikely one considering she appeared in court yesterday.
Strictly my opinion of course, but based on my microsaccades, I think it is entirely possible that Terri Horman is under a pre-arrest indictment in the matter of the alleged murder for hire plot, or some derivative thereof.
It would certainly be unlikely that she could have been booked and granted bail without a leak, but a sealed indictment, which may or may not include a sealed arrest warrant, would follow Oregon’s propensity to use the grand jury as a form of “preliminary hearing.” In light of the fact that there is an ongoing criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance involving Federal, county and State investigative assets, it would be entirely appropriate.
The public would not know until such time as the indictment and any potentially attached writs are unsealed. Throw in the possibility there is always the chance that Clackamas County may be the charging county for such an offense and not Multnomah.
In which case, this is about to get very interesting. Recall MCSO chief Dan Staton saying Clackamas County Major Crimes Team is involved in the case? That would suggest at least part of a crime has been established in their jurisdiction. Rudy Sanchez resides in Clackamas County.
Clackamas County District Attorney John Foote and Criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze are well acquainted. You might say that Foote owes his very job to Houze in a way-
John Foote lost as the incumbent DA in 1996 to his own deputy district attorney Terese “Terry” Gustafson. Terry was in the middle of fighting an Oregon Bar complaint at the time which cleared her name just days before the inauguration.
The embattled DA did not take long to be the subject of more ethics violations including felony perjury charges for lying to a circuit judge about releasing the file of a juvenile that was ordered to be destroyed. Gustafson was disbarred.
Who filed the Bar complaint who also represented the accused boy who was subsequently acquitted?
Who was the prosecuting attorney for the Oregon Bar?
Stephen Houze.
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oops, I meant that if Dede were pulled in, it was probably to watch Kierra while TH drove around Sauvie.
twinkletoes says:
September 7, 2010 at 3:38 pm
Thanks for that great post. Your theory makes a lot of sense. It really tied together a lot of things that were floating around in my head unorganized. Of particular interest to me was your idea of the 3rd party having ties to the school.
Looking back on B’s article http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/14/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-landscaper-rudy-sanchez-knew-kyron/ and specific quote “Of particular interest, is source confirmation that the landscaper Terri Horman hired last fall, who worked on the Horman property, had met Kyron at the residence as well as the Skyline School, where his firm had been contracted to do some work” something came to mind. It has been my experience with PPS that outside of the landscape work done by PPS landscape employees, any extra work is paid for/organized by PTA with input from the principal. Now this is only my experience, but it would not be unheard of for extra landscape maintenance work to be done by someone with ties to the school. This makes me wonder if any of RS’ employees, or RS himself are relatives of someone at the school.
Blink- Thanks for all you do. Long time reader and PDX resident, first time post. Curious if the the Villareals and Pumalas have a social relationship? Do they know RS? They are all about the same age and have younger siblings/relatives that attend Skyline. According to facebook/myspace AV is into Satan worship, AP into S&M, her reading list includes “Topping From Below”,seriously twisted revenge”mystery” with macabre sex scenes including child porn. Strange coupled with the rumored info she moved to Tempe,AZ on June 5. Jason W also seems a little too eager to advocate for children,while not admitting his parental connection. On Wikilink, someone has created and answered questions regarding his child advocacy appointment-odd.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Special:Contributions&target=User:Hippiecult
Also does anyone have a screenshot of “emmsback” comments?
@beejay, lol!
I am thinking more “organized crime” than any specific group and probably shouldn’t have jumped specifically onto the RM until I had more than a few small clues pointing to them. My point is that IF TH did try to hire a hitman, then she brushed arms with organized crime. You kind of have to, if you are going to find a real hitman. The organized crime on the rise in Oregon happens to be RM. Finally, I have yet to link this to Kyron, but I’ve discovered a bad guy in Portland who sure has some great luck in getting his vast sexual criminal records whiped clean locally and nationally and happens to be Russian, happened to be arrested for failure to register as a sex offender and bonded out in a couple hours, manages to run a succesful business where he regularly interacts with the public at large, including children. But certainly could be some other group. The question we should be asking is “What organized crime groups are active in Portland or Mult County?” Where on earth does one find a hitman in Oregon? (Craigslist? lol)
I keep going back to the response from Blink on poster “S”‘s blog, on September 5 @ 2:05 p.m. – …it is important to remember that neither Kaine nor Desiree believe that Kyron left the school with Terri (paraphrasing). I wonder if Kaine an Desiree know this for a fact? They seem to know something about what happened outside the school just from the slip that Desiree made in the last interview.
If Blink thinks that’s important, I’m inclined to believe that Blink doesn’t believe Kyron left with Terri either (JMO, not putting words in your mouth Blink).
So we have Kyron supposedly seen outside the school near the truck, and we have him NOT going with Terri. Obviously then he got into another vehicle with another person and left. If so, that eliminates the “container” theories. IMO Terri told him to go outside or he wouldn’t have gone out there in the first place, especially after lectures about following instructions, etc. (I wonder if these lectures were planned by Terri in advance, to make sure Kyron wouldn’t make any fuss when told to get into another vehicle). So what happened next? Kyron was instructed to get into the other vehicle by Terri and they would meet at the “doctor’s office” (meaning the perp had to be someone he knew), or was the perp lying in wait to grab him as planned? I’m thinking he was instructed by Terri and he got into the vehicle obediently if not willingly, otherwise there would have been a chance for a scene to be made, screaming, struggling, whatever, and they couldn’t risk that. Terri may have been waiting at or near the stairs for him to get into the other vehicle (not “under” the stairs, since there is no “under” according to Blink), so she could then leave the school without him. This makes the most sense to me – that she would have stuck around long enough to make sure the plan was going as scheduled – I mean, geez, if he doesn’t get in the vehicle then the rest of the plan isn’t going to work. I still don’t get why she didn’t make sure she was seen by at least one or two people leaving the school alone (or maybe she was seen, and we just don’t know that).
Okay so then she drove like hell to FM1 to get her alibi set up. She most likely had a few other places set up as alibis that she was supposed to go to, but it has been theorized in past blogs that something happened between FM1 and FM2. I tend to agree with this theory, because otherwise she would have been somewhere sooner after FM1 to establish more alibis, and also because she was so careful to get “bat phones” it doesn’t make sense that she would have left her own phone pinging unless she was suddenly panicked and forgot that detail. If it is true that something unplanned happened and Terri was driving around pinging in a panic between FM1 and FM2, it makes the most sense to me that the perp was supposed to maybe drug Kyron, or chloroform him, or whatever, which was supposed to knock him out but which in fact, rendered him deceased (I don’t think the perp was supposed to “off” Kyron at this point – would LE be involved with him in the MFH sting if he was known to be a murderer? And if he did “off” Kyron, he would know where Kyron was. Maybe the driving around and pinging part by Terri was to meet up with the perp to figure out what the hell to do. After driving around for a bit they decided disposing of Kyron anyplace close by wouldn’t work. Maybe the plan was to knock Kyron out but that he would wake up later and be “rescued”; the only reason this would have been the plan though is so Terri could sue the school, and she would still be stuck with Kyron. So I’m thinking Kyron was supposed to be either killed or taken away somewhere where he couldn’t come back for YEARS. then Terri could say, “I had not idea so-and-so would kidnap you!”
IDK, maybe the perp ultimately took him far away and disposed of him, which explains why he has not been found. Meanwhile, Terri went to the gym and then went home and posted the FB picture to finish off her alibis. And I’m not at all sure where DeDe fits into all this. Was SHE the second person at the school? Did Kyron go with her, and then she dropped him off? It doesn’t seem like it was planned for Terri to pick her up, because of the shortage of time and no way to prove alibis during that time. I think Terri would have stuck to the stores/receipts/check-in’s that could verify where she was for sure.
It does NOT make sense to me that Kyron was supposed to be kidnapped and “found” soon thereafter, unless found deceased, because if he were found alive he would talk. He was either supposed to die or disappear, or both, in the plan. But if he was supposed to be found deceased somewhere close by, why wasn’t he found?
The other thing that really bothers me is the LS coming to Terri’s house and demanding payment for a MFH that was never committed. Maybe he was demanding payment for Kyron’s MFH, as some have already surmised. I think Terri had already planned to say “who the hell are you” if he showed up anywhere near her. The ONLY reason I can think of that this set up was even tried with LS and LE is that LS has already confessed his part in this and made a plea deal with LE to try to trap Terri into admitting her part as the “mastermind” (I use this term loosely where she is concerned). It just doesn’t make sense for LE to agree to this type of “sting” for a MFH that wasn’t committed. Did LS tell LE what happened to Kyron, or where he is? I doubt it. LS may have done another hand-off and doesn’t know where Kyron is. LS has got to be the key.
But then I keep going back over and over again – Kaine and Desiree NEVER make a plea to whoever is holding Kyron to let him go or drop him off somewhere. So IMO either they know for a fact that he’s deceased, or they know for a fact that he is not, and in either of these scenarios they would then know where he is.
I just wish we knew exactly WHEN the bat phones were purchased. That would be a HUGE piece of the puzzle and would certainly suggest strongly what was planned and by whom.
MOO on all of the above.
@ Idahogal-Thanks for the info. I was wondering when school started back out there. My kids have been in school a month now.It breaks my heart that the whole summer has passed and Kyron hasn’t been found or an arrest been made.
@ lyla-I love that song. It is sad to hear it and think about Kyron. But you are right, it does give hope. I feel so bad for Kaine and Desiree.
@twinkle
you just nicely summarized the many fragmented thoughts going around in my brain, though i hadn’t really been able to precisely nail it like you have done. my only problem remains why wouldnt terri then spill her guts in the name of saving kyron? cuz if she was going to do it, but changed her mind, seems she would be not in as big of a doo doo as the mess she’s made by shutting up. of course, what do we know? maybe she has spilled her guts and thus, the visible protection at court.
@Twinkletoes: I think of all the possible theories I’ve read on various comment boards, yours probably has the loudest ring of truth for me.
I have never felt Terri did anything to Kyron herself, but have been open-minded enough to consider that she might be involved somehow.
That was the part of the MFH plot that never jived with me. Kaine is still walking around, and as far as we know, has never had to dodge a speeding bullet headed his way. If the plot ever existed, it certainly was never carried out.
Also take into consideration that if Terri changing her mind about the MFH plot had to result in dire consequences for others, then taking Kyron would make sense, as it would be a way of hurting Kaine without physically hurting Kaine. And Kaine, in whatever sick and twisted way in this person’s mind, was the reason this psycho did not get his payment for the MFH contract.
It could also be a possible reason why Terri had inconclusive results on her polygraph(s). She wasn’t lying about having done anything to Kyron herself, but subconsciously she knew her actions were possibly the reason he came up missing.
Okay, LOTS of interesting thoughts coming together here. I am particularly intrigued by Blink’s and Twinkletoes’ discussion just a few posts prior. I am also connecting it back to some other allusions made in the comments section in a previous piece.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/04/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-sources-terri-horman-hired-landscape-lover/comment-page-2/#comments
In comment #39 in the above-referenced think, I believe that Blink–in her reply to Gypsy DD–makes some pretty fascinating suggestions that what upset Terri so much was Kaine’s having taken a lover. Quite possibly a same-sex lover–i.e., the fight “she could not win” and to which she did “not take kindly.” It is interesting that none of us have really delved into that comment further–it is loaded, to put it lightly.
So, to elaborate further on Twinkletoes’ theory….
Kaine takes a lover. Something about this lover in particular drives Terri absolutely bananas. This to me explains the “sexual motivation” of the crime against Kyron.
She may or may not have had a relationship with RS at this point. She either takes him on as a lover in revenge, or–if they were already lovers–suggests the MFH. Rudy says “I won’t do it, but I know someone who would.” (Perhaps this is your link to the Russian mafia, Twinkletoes?) Enter the hitman who eventually gets ticked off when Terri pulls out of the MFH idea and wants $$$ like yesterday.
Now, here’s where my theory diverges from yours, Twinkletoes. I know you feel strongly that Terri had no clue that anything would happen on June 4th. I have to disagree–the hinky doctor appointment confusion says it all for me, as I have stated before. Without her cooperation and collusion, I think it would have been bloody difficult to pull Kyron out of school that day.
I think someone or some people–Terri included–hatched a plan to stage a kidnapping from which ransom for Kyron would be acquired as a payment to the ticked-off hitman. This MIGHT explain why Rudy felt that Terri “owed him something.” This is so hard for me to get my brain around because when has a kidnapping or any other crime in which a ransom is demanded ever work out? I thought that after Margaret Thatcher ransom demands simply never got met on principle. (“We don’t negotiate with terrorists,” etc.) Still, Blink keeps dropping us clues that there was a ransom element in this case.
Then….the famous “backfire.” How things backfired, we know not. But something went terribly wrong on June 4th. Things did not go according to plan.
I am absolutely fascinated by Blink’s suggestion that the subsequent LE sting was in fact a vehicle for discovering Kyron’s location. How does that work? If neither Terri nor Rudy have any clue where Kyron is (presumably because something went horribly wrong with their scheme and/or the person that they entrusted to carry it out), how in the world could the sting have revealed Kyron’s location? Maybe “if we give the kidnapper (perhaps the Russian?) $10K, he will tell us what happened to Kyron on June 4th”? That’s the only way I can even begin to make sense of it.
Lots of food for thought out there. My opinion only, of course… (Sorry, I don’t MOO on principle.
More MOO
And also, per Blink’s belief that the MFH sting was designed to flush out Kyron’s location (paraphrasing her remarks just above), that means that LS doesn’t know where he is but thought that Terri might. So there has to be a third person in there somewhere that Kyron was given to after the original Perp took him, most likely someone known to the LS.
If we assume that something went wrong in the plan, then we have to assume Terri knew something went wrong immediately (cell phone pinging away). She wouldn’t know at that point that the perp had no intention of bringing Kyron back, would she? I mean, unless she had already dropped off the money at some planned location and didn’t get him back. Nah. Too much to do in too little time, and no alibis in that scenario. Plus Kyron could talk.
Okay how about this one? The Perp called her on the bat phone and TOLD her that she wouldn’t be getting Kyron back, after picking up the money that was already hidden at the drop-off location. So she panicked. But why drive all around town? If the Perp took him and didn’t intend to bring him back, wouldn’t he try to get his money and then get as far away as possible, as fast as possible? It does make sense that the Perp wouldn’t want to bring Kyron back – after all, Kyron could identify him. But did the Perp get his money? Or did he panic for some reason himself? Maybe he chickened out of picking up the money because he thought it was a set-up, so he took off, and got rid of Kyron in the process. Maybe the person supposedly seen that night in a white truck was out retrieving the money that was never picked up, so LE wouldn’t find it.
Hey just trying to generate some new thoughts here…
Mockingbird, let me try this again. I posted this morning with a link. It’s still in moderation, so I’ll try it without the link. earlier you said something about looking up Rudy but without a birthday or picture, it was difficult. I believe his birthday could be 4-30-1974, and more info can be found at TrueCrimes. His aliases and possible family members/associates.
I’ll try and post the link again and see if it goes through.
Ok Last MOO for awhile
Maybe the Perp couldn’t find the money at the assigned location and he called TH on a bat phone and that’s why she panicked. The only way a scenario would work in which Kyron was supposed to be returned is if he was knocked out and couldn’t remember anything. But he WOULD remember getting into the vehicle at the school. From there….it’s a big question mark.
twinkletoes says:
September 7, 2010 at 3:38 pm
Agreed 100%, with the exception that whoever the 3rd party was, either never had any intention of returning Kyron once a ransom was paid, or something went wrong. There is no doubt in my mind that sting was believed to be the vehicle to net Kyron’s whereabouts.
B
Twinkletoes, you are brilliant!
So…are we thinking about neighbor Fuhrer’s that also have a white truck, Blink posted that picture a long time ago. And she is Tanner’s granny, yes? Same granny that got him on TV with his account of the day and herself made comments about “the school let this happen, blah, blah” or something to that effect, AND gave the KOIN reporter the impression that Tanner saw Ky at 9:45. I cannot find the KOIN video, but I will keep trying, I watched it a few days ago and I know I have a link somewhere. They have taken a lot of the Kyron info. off of their website. And his Daddy lives on Sauvie Island, and Mom took off for Arizona right after Ky went missing.
We also have that hinky Avery Villarreal kid for a neighbor up there. Can anyone access his MySpace info? I don’t have MySpace and he isn’t on FB. I know his Dad died in a motorcycle accident but was a landscaper. Perhaps he introduced RS and TH?
When I go back over the info. Blink has provided I now see how she circled the neighborhood in so many ways that I didn’t pay enough attention to. How about all those 911 calls in the past months?
All this is IMHO, MOO, etc. etc. I’ll do what I can to provide links to some of this stuff.
@ Twinkletoes-
Do you think Terri paid the perp(s)ransom money? Were the perp(s)part of Rudy & Assoc. What association would a relative of a student have with Terri and what would be their motive? I can see the various lovers of TH (Rudy we pretty much know for sure) being involved to some extent. I’m looking heavily at MC too. Didn’t he know Kyron?
If all this was to scare TH into paying the money for the MFH that didn’t happen, and $10,000 was mentioned at the MFH sting, why didn’t TH just come up with the money? Surely by then, and earlier if she was smart, she realized what type of people she was dealing with.
My other thought is, maybe Kyron -was- the payment and she set him up? It hurts to even think it.
@S – My compliments to you on your sleuth work. I haven’t read all the posts so apologize in advance if someone already mentioned this, and certainly not to challenge your drive times, but on June 4th, the 1st Fred Meyer (on Imbrie Dr.) was being remodeled. The Starbucks coffee bar and OTC pain reliever aisle were not in the same place that they are now. It probably doesn’t make one dang bit of difference, but I couldn’t not mention it!
S, thank you for your experiment.
An entire summer gone now for Kyron, where he did not get to
stay up later and sleep in later
go camping with his family
go fishing with his brothers or dads
go swimming at every chance
play outside with Kiara
have a barbecue on Labor Day
plan for his birthday party and what he’d like for
his sweet little 8th birthday-cake, presents, party
(my son turned 8 this summer)
ride his bike and have friends over
my heart just aches for sweet little Kyron.
Found it – here is the link for the original KOIN interview:
http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/interview-with-tanner-pumala-friend-of-kyron-horman/2091168039/?icid=VIDURVNWS08
I have often called Portland the town of ‘two degrees of separation’, maintaining that if I talk long enough with anyone, we’ve got a person in common no more than 2 contacts apart.
After trawling through friend lists for the Moultons named above, and their friends and family.. let’s just say, when MY name pops into this investigation, I don’t think I should be surprised! lol
Lest that come out wrong, I don’t *actually* know any of these people, but names are so familiar and I expect to run across someone I know in the near future.. seems the spiral is going to take in everyone in town eventually!
About the James Doering connection; I noticed that there was a news item plea for help in today’s Oregonian, but also that that is not the exact name of the friend list friend mentioned in Nic says:
September 7, 2010 at 12:36 pm. I see on Facebook that there are several people with that name, and I haven’t looked further to establish a connection.
@S: Thank you for doing the drive around! My friend has also done this, but not in as organized detail as you have described. I agree with you; being on foot around WWF is just asking to be noticed, or knocked down by a vehicle.
About the ‘licensing’ for RS Landscape Maint; what I see for certain is that he’s established a ‘DBA’ Doing Business As with the State, does work that doesn’t require a Board application and doesn’t have a city-issued business license that may or may not be required depending on where he actually lists the business (looks like Canby & Milwaukie would require in-person or by mail requests.. no online searches of their databases). He can basically fly under the radar.
@ MockingbirdSings —I think our electronic paths crossed yesterday. : )
Great post twinkletoes – even better since B agreed with you. The question that has been bugging me is why June 4th? Why did the bad guys/girls chose June 4th to take Kyron away from his family? I do not think they chose June 4th only because of the science fair. Yes, the chaos at the school helped them have a better alibi – but the people (we are assuming) took Kyron could have taken him at anytime. IMO, the people involved with Kyron’s disappearance had 6 months to drum up and execute their plan. If they took Kyron for the ransom payment – IMO they would have taken him long before June 4th. I think something happened between Terri and the boys the week leading up to Kyron’s disappearance. What happened? I have no idea – but in my opinion there is another reason Kyron disappearance June 4th other than the science fair.
Twinkletoes – “I think ultimately, the person who removed Kyron from the school building had to be a relative of a student. Not an employee–too easy to trace. A relative of a student or a relative of an employee . . . ”
I am continuing to think about this, but my first thought was:
Many, if not most, employees don’t live in the same neighborhood as the school where they work anymore – too many transfers to move every time. Every employee would know if they had a relative who had been around the building often, knew the Horman’s, and was around on SF day. That list would probably be the easiest to identify.
Volunteers do tend to live in the area they want to volunteer in and could also give information to one of their own relatives without thinking about it. Someone who was a previous student there would also know the building and the traditions associated with the school and may also know a couple of the teachers or staff who were there then.
T-toes…Wow. Blink: Wow,wow.
No intention to return Kyron, or something went wrong, because Kyron is gone forever, and was pretty soon after he disappeared, I take it.
RS was acting not only on behalf of LE, but on his own behalf as part of a deal, since he was already in deep…
So, he was taken out of there…or was an incinerator or furnace working in June? Awful to even think it, but was it Blink who asked if the was a furnace? I am sorry.
It’s been a long while since I posted something so I am going to take a shot at this theory. Continuously we hear of the long drive TH takes in the truck to supposedly “calm” down Kiara. Well—what if that long drive was to make sure Kyron who could quite possibly have been drugged was completely “out” so that she could go about her dirty deeds with a minimum of suspicion. I have no clue what horrible thing may have been done to this precious child but I do believe he would have put up a fight if he knew he was falling into evil hands.
Bingo twink! Don’t know if others do this but a lot of small buisness owners but their companies in their wives or daughters name sometimes for tax purposes. Thoughts and prayers r with kyron his brothers and sister
Thanks Madilu and Annals for listening to the video. I agree with both of you. The reporter clearly yet quickly referred to three witnesses seeing Kyron near Kaines truck… If there are truly three reliable sources who saw Kryon outside the school near or in Kaines truck they most likely saw who was in the truck as well. This would dispel Kyron being taken off school grounds in a container of such.
Also, where in the heck is the landscaper now? Is he in jail? Has he cut a deal with LE? Has he testified before the GJ? How long had he known Terri before she sent him racy text messages? Did he work at the school? Did he know Terri? Does he drive a white truck? I’ve been as curious about him as everyone else has. He went away as quickly as he appeared.. It was his accusation of the MFH plot that gave this case momentum..
Nic.. Any more information on JAMES DOERING? The connections with him and other people surrounding this case seem edgy..maybe just an uncomfortable coincidence?
twinkletoes says:
September 7, 2010 at 3:38 pm
“How to remove a kid from a school without being seen: Lots of containers around on science fair day. I guess I would get him alone (invited into a bathroom or storage room by an adult, trusted or authoritative), incapacitate him (shudder), and then remove him in a storage container.”
According to Desiree in their last set of interviews. Kyron WAS SEEN outside the school and near the truck with someone else inside.
Just read Twinkletoes post and Blink’s reply
,but the thing I keep coming back to is the rumor about the doctor’s appointment. That certainly makes TH look like more of an accomplice than just the person that opened the door to a vampire.
I just saw KH on the news re-erecting the Wall of Hope with caring volunteers~! He looks like he has been through the wringer, my heart goes out to him . He looks like he hasn’t slept or eaten properly since this all began (lost weight), but then who could (except Terri- amazing~ she is the only one looking better since Kyron has been missing)
It bought tears to my eyes, oh I hope this is solved soon ~ first day of school & his Birthday coming up~ so sad
letsworktogether said “So, he was taken out of there…or was an incinerator or furnace working in June? Awful to even think it, but was it Blink who asked if the was a furnace? I am sorry.”
Sorry, I lost the thread, but .. there Skyline has a kiln. Accessible from the outside if I remember well.
Twinkletoes, (I hope you don’t mind my rambling thoughts and questions I don’t post often because I’m so confused about all of the bits of information spread out)
I like your theory, simple yet well thought out…and it makes sense but it also started a lot of thoughts spinning in my head…
Why would Terri cancel a hit on Kaine? I don’t think it was so much for love (even twisted) but maybe a lack of money. She did not have a down payment. Kaine has said that she spends money she doesn’t have. Either her spending habits made it unable to get her hands on a large sum of money or Kaine had taken steps to protect the family accounts.
Where does Terri’s animosity towards Kyron fit in? I think she came up with a new plan to alleviate what ever was building up in her head with the PPD. Something had to change and she couldn’t afford a hit on Kaine so she started focusing her insanity on one more vulnerable and to whom she had easier access and control over.
As far as canceling a hit I would imagine that most Hispanic gangsters would laugh it off…hey this crazy white woman wants to off her husband….especially since this would have been a white upper middle class hit. Then to kidnap Kyron instead…This would not be a decision that a low level gang member could make. It is reckless no matter how well they thought it was planned. But if it were sexually motivated that would make more sense. The danger becomes secondary to the addiction. Kidnapping a little boy would be something to bring even more unwanted attention. Also Hispanics being Catholic…even gangsters with skewed morals would have a problem taking a little boy.(They’re not priests!) Homosexuality is still not acceptable with Hispanics in general and homosexual behavior towards a young boy even worse. Sex trafficking is low in life but sex trafficking of young children..(oy!…its hard to judge one evil lower than the other)is even lower. While other societies have different beliefs at what age people are ready to have sex Kyron was nowhere near the age in the most permissive of societies….he was a child!
But I’m not sure abducting Kyron was sexually motivated towards Kyron. I still think this has Terri written all over it. I can’t get the picture of Terri demanding Kyron’s behavior color from the teacher every day…and wanting to punish him every night for hours.
I do think Rudy is a bottom feeder but not necessarily a part of a regular gang(if you can call gangs “regular”)…maybe a group of like minded sex abusers…or just so low life that he would go off on his own in behavior and thought reflecting too much drug use. What little I know of gangs if he did this on behalf of a gang I’m surprised that he hasn’t been killed by one of his own yet.
Also that particular school…it just doesn’t make sense to me that a gang member would risk committing a crime at such a wholesome place….its a school in the country where everyone knows each other. Worse than abducting a child from Sesame Street it seems so wholesome. Now look at the agencies investigating. This just does not seem like gang activity. There is a reason cockroaches hide in dark places.
IMO Terri did not want to see Kyron again.
DISCLAIMER: I’m aware I could be and probably am completely wrong about all of the above!
KGW.com – WOW – Kaine Horman & Desiree Young 8/27 Part 2;
http://www.kgw.com/video?id=101688128&sec=547987
Desiree: “Well first of all, why would Kyron even be outside the school? Why would he even be near a truck with someone else in it? It’s significant, in a huge way, to the case. If the timeline played out the way it supposedly did, that contradicts that completely.”
“Why would he even be near a truck,” A truck. Seems to me DY would have referenced KH’s truck as THE truck. Then she goes on to say, “with someone else in it?” Someone else? other than who? That takes me back to KH’s truck with someone else in it. Please someone, help me out here. Does she mean KH’s truck or another truck?
Did you note the disjoint between DY and KH on the issue? DY felt the source “very credible” vs. KH stating it had not been vetted to LE satisfaction and until then he did not believe it as fact
B
@ Iyla
My goodness, can you imagine the people (wide network) that Terri might have had affairs with that we have no inkling about? Past relationships that could be involved? Not just the LS or MC~! I hesitate to say Kaine, because I really feel for him especially now~ but he was involved in things outside of their marriage too~ Once trust is lost & faithfulness is gone ~ loyalty is out the window too~ a sad thing that children have to suffer for the selfishness of their parents,
I have not seen anyone ask this question yet and it’s bugging me. Why did LE send RS to Terri’s door asking for $10k if RS had yet to do anything to earn that money? Why would they think that would yield any results, hmmmm? My theory (and that’s all it is) is that RS had already done something to earn that “fee” LE just isn’t ready to disclose to the public what that is…..but I’d be willing to bet that Terri knows!!!! I’ve not heard that a person can back out of a hired hit and still owe the cash, nor am I willing to google it, but I think a crime had already been committed prior to Kyron’s disappearance that both Terri and RS were part of (as well as others). The events of June 4 were most likely connected. I’d be willing to bet RS has already cut his deal, he’s already been before the GJ. MOOOOO!
There is no doubt in my mind that sting was believed to be the vehicle to net Kyron’s whereabouts.
B (Sept 7, 2010 3:38pm)
——————————————————–
I’m trying to understand how the sting could have been scripted to get from A) Terri told Landscaper Rudy there’s $10,000 in offing Kaine, to B) LE learns the location of Kyron.
A) LE tells Rudy; prove to us that your financial arrangements with Terri are for killing Kaine, not abducting Kyron. Run along to Terri in the conpany of this undercover agent, posing as your hired hit man. Have a conversation with Terri about hiring you (and yours) to murder Kaine so that she will say something to back up your story.
B) But when the men arrive at the Horman house the undercover agent (as hired bad-guy) demands payment for the abduction of Kyron instead?
Facing criminal charges, especially solicitation, tends to make people want to negotiate their way out of them.
It is my belief that was the “gamble” if you will.
B
It breaks my heart that Blink agreed 100% with you, twinkletoes….
My take on this is a little different.
There are only 2 things that could have happened to get Kyron OUT of the school.
1. He went outside on his own
2. Someone from outside came in and got him.
It has to be 1. How could someone come inside and whisper to Kyron to go anywhere
with them without anyone noticing? (even bathroom)
It has to be that Terri told him to go outside to the truck.
Terri told Kyron to go to the truck because
(RS/LS) caught SM when she got to school and threatened to harm Kiara
if SM did not tell Kyron to come outside.
KEY-WHERE WAS KIARA DURING SCIENCE FAIR??????????
RS/LS HAD HER DURING THE SCIENCE FAIR
The rest was out of Terri’s hands.
I believe TERRI told Kyron to go outside
in order to get Kiara back from RS/LS.
@TJ
Major Moo post, my pick for post of the day.
“DeeDee was simply a barnacle on her butt” Classic.
I wonder how long it will take DeeDee to figure that out.
MOO
Thanks Blink.
Idahogal says on September 7, 2010 @ 6:20 pm
Here are the links to Avery Villarreal on Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000645197805&ref=ts
and on Myspace – http://www.myspace.com/496471897
There is a lot of talk but still implementing appears s l o w to start…
“Nowhere are the new procedures expected to be enforced more stringently than Portland Public Schools. Any adult visitor will be required to wear an official PPS color-coded badge — yellow for visitors, green for volunteers who’ve been through a criminal background check. And adults who visit frequently will be pressed to upgrade to the green pass.”
–BUT—
“On Tuesday, the hectic first day of school, parents and other adults swarmed most Portland elementary and K-8 schools — with nary a request for any of them to badge up.”
–AND–
“Hillsboro also has switched to a color-coded badge system. An orange badge signals an approved volunteer who has cleared a state or national criminal background check.”
“With about 1,000 volunteers screened so far,
two who were barred from helping out in Hillsboro schools objected that their background should be considered acceptable, Waletich said.
But the district held firm.
“Those people are not volunteering in our schools,” he said.”
So how many school districts will adhere to such standards AND is LE looking @ those that do not pass?
The Oregonian article explains more of the ‘new’ system in Portland Metro area plus there is a video
with PPS spoke person, Skyline Principal and in background you can see people installing Wall of Hope.
http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2010/09/for_safety_portland-area_schoo.html
@sjso
It seems the MFH plot and MC sexting has given this case momentum and both seem to have since fizzled out. You’d think if the MFH hire plot had any legs someone would have been served up a warrant by now. Burden of Truth might not be there. Could this be a “Perfect Crime”?
#22 #
Kaylee says:
September 7, 2010 at 7:27 pm
According to Desiree in their last set of interviews. Kyron WAS SEEN outside the school and near the truck with someone else inside.
_________
Exactly: People are forgetting to listen to what credible witness from the Grand Jury have reported.
@
MockingbirdSings says:
September 7, 2010 at 3:11 am
Also, I still don’t understand the connection between Rudy and the school…
Whatever it was, he apparently did it often enough for Kyron to “know him” at home and at school.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
After reading your post MockingbirdSings, I had the strange need to ask—
Is RS a parent and/or relative of student(s) @ Skyline ?
1/3 of the billboards in Spanish & 1/3 in Russian. This means something.
Where black tar heroin and human trafficking collide, that’s what it means to me.
Hi TJ #2! Welcome, glad you are here and enjoyed your post. I too am a Blinkaholic! If this is the only case you’ve read here then I suggest you go check out our dear Christine Sheddy’s case and the results of. Amazing work done here.
too bad all schools do not have surveillance videos! all schools should be required to have the premise under surveillance. Even more -as hand scan to get in /out (unless a fire alarm goes off or something) Just think what a video would do in this instance. MOO
ps I think Terri wants to talk but has been threatened if she does talk. As in afraid for her life & her own family..its the way she acts & how she seems to have that look on her face that screams ” help!”
Just a brief note-
Enjoyed your travels “S”, and appreciate your insight. Is it possible TH left the school a few minutes earlier than what we think, giving her the few added minutes?
TJ- much needed chuckle on your 9/7 1130 post-BLINKAHOLIC, lol, I can relate.
Landscaper said Terri offered him a lot of money to murder Kaine…
Where the heck does Terri keep coming up with all this money (i.e. $350K for Houze and MFH money)
Also, If Landscaper told Terri NO on the MFH plot, why did he still think “she owed him something?”
Also, I keep hearing tidbits about LE having Kyron’s glasses, where did that come from?
Thanks All
To me the one who makes most sense for Kyron to be comfortable in the truck is RS, whom he knew and maybe he was used to being seen around the school. How about WF helping TH, thinking it would be temporary for Kyron to be hidden, then put her grandson on TV to throw everyone off. The motivation was sexual,the person he was handed off to later (could be RS and associates or just RS’ associates, depending on who you think took him) was a perp, unless TH set that up, but I don’t think Blink would agree with that last part. RS wanted revenge for her not following through and this filled another purpose as well with the perp. The container idea is great, but probably won’t work with this declaration that he was seen outside.
Perhaps between FM 1 and FM 2 she went to Azteca (near this Albertson’s that is talked about) to make sure K was drugged enough, to pay the money? Then she found out something wasn’t going to plan.
When AV is mentioned, I dunno where he lives, but with partner and baby and someone with that name listed in the phone book in downtown Portland, it isn’t so likely he was out there.
I think I have been keeping up with the reading here, but am not sure how we hooked into the Russian element. Are the Mexicans and Russians connected? It seems like just using illegal aliens to do some of these deeds are enough.
christy says:
September 7, 2010 at 6:41 pm
Christy, I love what you said, it made me cry. I have also watched my child have a great Summer and wishing Kyron could do the same. Thank you.
S – Well done, you are so fierce, thanks so much.
This is all too much, really it is. There just aren’t words for how I’m feeling tonight. That poor child, he didn’t deserve any of this. I am so glad that all of you are out here, trying to help in any way you can, and I hope you find the answers you seek for Kyron’s sake. I’m stepping away for awhile, good luck to all and God bless.