Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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I wonder if it is possible to get a divorce with reserved issues? The reason why I am asking is because this is what we did when I was divorced in another state. Ex was in a hurry to re-marry and there was fighting over money, so we got a legal divorce and a year later the financial aspects were solved
Interesting, Blink writes Bunch said that TH is involved in more than one criminal investigation.
Yes, the disconnect is interesting, she may be guilty of “disappearing” a child, but wants visitation with a very young one? Uh???
Yes, someone tell us Rudy’s REAL name, please? Hint, how many letters? Anything? Is he sequestered in one of those “office building” detention centers? Do they ever put them in another county’s jail? We’d have to look through all the photos of Clackamas and Multnomah at least.
If this whole case isn’t driven and started by Ms. Horman, then who else? Not Kaine is sure.
Looks like TH fashioned-up some since last appearance, not that it is very important, but with no small child or job, she must be doing something. James is with her??? Poor guy, it seems hard for him to find a stable home.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”…Lea Connor
~~~~
Perhaps the disconnect is intentional…it seems to me they are legally separate issues…..and the concept of ‘motherhood’ is brought into the conversation….and the court room…it is a cold hard place otherwise….and it seems to me any judge or jury would be warmed by the thought….
I thoroughly enjoyed reading Ms. Connor’s opinion on today’s hearing.
What an interesting and informative article, Blink!
[...] Read the rest at Blink on Crime: Share This [...]
Bunch didn’t say Rudy Sanchez HAS an alias he said it IS an alias…
Who is this landscaper??
Well I have to say I am just as confused by todays court proceedings as Ms. Lea Conner seems to be. I am glad to know that it isn’t because I am dumb and have no legal experience.
Thank you to Ms. Lea Conner for trying to get to the heart of these strange proceedings and rulings, IMO she did a marvelous job in trying to explain what may be going on in these matters. She made some sense out of gobbly gook for me, so again- Thanks.
So Terri fears she will incriminate herself- she possibly will plead the 5th but expects to get visitation rights…. HUH?
What is going on here Blink?- If she knows something about Kyron’s disappearance and isnt talking because she scared- that would IMO put Kitty in some danger- What if the bad guy comes after Terri? If she is remaining quiet to save her own skin- than that would be a WTF too… If she is remaining silent for some kind of leverage in the courts- How could that help?
Just how deep and dark do these other intertwined investigations go? What have these LEA discovered in there investigations into Kyron’s disappearance?
If I were a Oregon resident, I would be very afraid for my children and for my community- not to mention my fear for poor little Kyron.
I’m not a resident but I am still clutching my own tighter.
I am not ashamed to admit I do not understand what is going on… What about Kyron?
from today’s katu “…she (TH) had hired someone to kill him.”
now, question is to kill whom? Kyron or as it was earlier alleged, Kaine? or both of them?
Geez, all this legaleze. Not my element. Do you feel this is an indirect threat to Kaine to deal, versus opening the door to some possible bad light shed his way? I dont know I am soooo confused really. Great article, and two in one day! Now you need a break.
Nake- interesting point about the alias thanks.
Re: mystery man in the pics. Call me crazy, but I really think those are 2 different guys. The guy in the pic without Kyron does not look to me like he is wearing a flannel shirt – plus he looks taller than the other guy. I might know who the non-flannel shirt guy is, but the resolution is pretty poor, so I can’t be sure. If its who I think it is, he had a kid in Mrs. P’s class last year and he is around a lot, so I don’t think its supicious at all that he would be there (and now that I think about it, I call BS on the idea there were no male chaperones). As for the other guy – I’m not sure I would recognize my own husband seeing that little of him. The little girl doesn’t look familar and looks too young to be in that class, but she could be a younger sibling.
***********do not post*******************
Re:
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 11, 2010 to be exact.
************
B.. should that date be January 11, 2011 ?
Miraculously, and in no way a coincidence to your comment, it says 2011.
lol Thank you.
B
Alright, back to what I know. Looks like TH had her hair done since the last time we saw her, lol!
ROTFL
Dang your a hoot.
B
Blink, I swear you must be the very definition of time management…I can barely keep up with the comments!
May I say that that TH’s hair looked fabulous and witchy as the same time? Maybe that is part of her appeal….:) Her face is a bit thinner, too. IMO something is making her anxious enough to affect her appetite.
Kaine looked very nice in his dress shirt, tie, and trousers, and very much like the grieving father. My heart hurts everytime I lay eyes on him.
Come home, sweet Kyron.
She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
December 26, 2009. I WANT TO HEAR THAT 911 CALL!!!!!! And, there are more? How many more? I want to know what she called the police for and how many times. The day after Christmas! Who worked the day after Christmas last year? You would think if her call to LE in May reporting the ??? AKA Rudy Sanchez lunge, they would have done more than just go to his house to have a little talk with him if there had been numerous complaints about him by TH. In my experience Oregon LE are pretty serious about things like stalking, assault, threats. So, I’m not thinking the call in December was to report something about the lawn mower guy.
I seriously just dont get the fact the judge put the divorce proceedings out until Jan. Does he feel Kyron will be found in that amount of time? IMO, hes (kyron) been very well hidden, and sadly might never be seen again. Terri will still be under her parents shelter, and be as tight-lipped as ever, in 3 months. Even LE stated this could be drawn out for a great period of time, perhaps years. Blink—did you know that rudy sanchez was using that name as an alias?? just curious. Have a good evening.
He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions.
Classic, Blink! Totally love it.
Thank you so much and thank you to Ms. Conner.
“Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.”
Is the RO a part of this case (specifically the dissolution) or a separate issue? If it is separate, then could not Mr. Bunch bring a motion to alter the RO?
“I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.”
Did not Mr. Bunch say that Kaine and his attorney have had access to discovery of the criminal investigations? Isn’t it this discovery that Mr. Bunch wants reciprocated?
Hope these questions are not too dull headed. It is very difficult to understand without that law degree! I do understand what was said about the disconnect however. Terri Hormon does not want to talk because she will incriminate herself in criminal activity involving harming a child, but it’s just not fair that another child can’t spend time with her. I think someone already said this, jeez louise.
I have to hand it to her attorneys. They certainly are working for their client and I am glad they are. I hope the prosecuting attorney in the criminal cases, if there are, are as sharp.
Thank You Blink and L Conner
It was such a treat to read
this is the buzy time at work so even if I do read
every post and I do
I just don’t have time to think out my own view
of things
I think Terri looks pretty and I am glad as she is
to young to look as bad as she did this is said by
an old ladie LOL
So now what we wait some more
I am still in the Kyron is alive camp
Please let it be so
Also aka Rudy looks nothing like the Mexican landscapers that worked
in our area last spring/summer he is built and short hair
the ones I saw were lean with longish hair
for what it is worth
TH will self incriminate for more than one criminal investigation.
1) Ky’s disappearance
2) MFH
3) the underlying investigation?
Here’s a possible theory on the abduction scenario:
TH is pointing her finger at RS, and implicates, in an email, a “man chaperon” who was seen with two girls, as the last person Ky was seen with. LE does not say this publicly, but TH would not just make this up and not expect to have it come back on her. It came from somewhere.
If a “man chaperon” was seen by someone and that information was not publicly released so not to scare him off, he could be the person who lured Ky from the school. Maybe the man and two girls and Ky walked to the back of the school, not exactly what would come to mind if someone asked if you had seen a boy. RS was parked in the back and Ky was driven off in the white truck.
Someone in the parking lot that faced TH’s truck that was parked on the shoulder, went to the truck and left a note/message/batphone. Someone saw this person around the truck and LE would like to find this accomplice, that they refer to as a witness.
I certainly feel for Kaine and can’t imagine how he is holding up. I do hope that his lawyer is up to the task. Terri sure seems to have the best representation possible. I just don’t see how that woman sleeps at night. God bless you, Kyron.
I’d love to hear that 911 tape as well S. I have a feeling the call is from TH about KH though….I think the “game” is about to begin and all hell is gonna break loose verbally now.
Having said that, let me add this…the things we’re most lilely to hear now will be of the “he said, she said” variety and I really don’t wanna hear it, because I really don’t care.
I just want one little boy found and brought home.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
I don’t know if there was an actual call placed to 911 on December 26th. Someone at another site mentioned that Dec. 26th is exactly 6 months from June 26th. Anyway, why does Bunch/Houze need the cops to give them the 911 call info? Why don’t they get that info from the same place the cops got it?
Maybe in Oregon, who follows it’s own set of rules, IMO, since the RO and divorce case are two sep cases and Bunch can’t file to ammend the latter since on halt but threatened to ammed RO cause he can. Maybe the RO can allow temp visitation if contested but not even mess with the div and she poss wouldn’t have to give any info up OR the threat of wanting 911 calls may just prove our little KH isn’t a subdued as he has the public believing. Maybe she called 911 cause he roughed her up or threatened her and it’s on record. “Gee judge, of course I mentioned MFH and didn’t mean it, look at my 911 calls and all KH did to me!”
Okay Blink, “Shake out Jan 11, 2011, to be exact”?
Where is that date linked to divorce (since the next court date is Jan 06,2011) ?
-AND-
“Bunch is adament his client is the subject of MORE THAN ONE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION” ?
Is this your sly way of letting us know TMH was ALREADY part of investigation PRIOR to Kyron’s disappearance?
If an abatement HALTS either party to bring ANY motions —
Why woud Bunch say he would still seek a change to RO’s visitation ?
Is RS undercover DEA -or-? -AND- being “involved” was “part” of “role”?
When I asked back on 09/16 if the Sheriff had a “slip” :
“I’ve got cases… They might not be HOMICIDES” …?
I heard what to me meant MORE than ONE death …(?)
Could this be Elsy & children -or- someone(s) else ?
Should KH have had his own defense attorney, too?
Could KH & Rackner have created some type of loop hole/ edge to TMH & SH by relying/ stating things from the criminal investigation(s) ?
Does Rackner in need of defense attorney input ? It’s not like she can get a second chair occupied by ADA.
Could these investigation(s) be centered w/I the “gardening community” -or- “gyms” -or- “public schools” -or- “sex-porn-Internet” -or- ???
Thank you for your new & always informative article ( we were edging close that 3,000 mark) YAY for new thread.
Skyline parent I remember 2 diff guys in the pics also. Adding to my above comment, maybe the 911 offers up not KH but the beginning of RS poss ‘stalking/threats’ and it says his real name somehow. I dunno, I can’t help think this has to do with some problems in the Horman home between her and Kaine.
Speaking of the 911 call day after Christmas last year, I think I read about some Christmas photos a short while back, but I don’t know what that is all about. Can anyone tell me about the pics or link me the pics?
I tried searching, but can’t find.
“I know what I do not know.” – Socrates. Thank you for the article, Blink – it helps put into perspective all that we don’t know about this case.
@ protectkidz says:
October 8, 2010 at 8:05 am
I don’t know if there was an actual call placed to 911 on December 26th. Someone at another site mentioned that Dec. 26th is exactly 6 months from June 26th. Anyway, why does Bunch/Houze need the cops to give them the 911 call info? Why don’t they get that info from the same place the cops got it?
–In a divorce, spouses in a battle accuse each other, often of terrible things. Abuse, drugs, financial scams, abandonment, etc. But a judge does not grant any spouse a divorce based on accusations. It’s a civil case, but proof still needs to be presented, not accusations. Again, I don’t know Oregon divorce law, but my state is not no-fault, and a divorce requires cause here. In turn, “cause” must be clearly proven (e.g. an affair for example, or physical abuse).
Thus TH’s divorce attorney, on his client’s behalf, is following SOP — his client has been accused of awful things by her estranged spouse, who wants to divorce her for those awful things. But…are they true? No judge would grant KH a divorce from TH right now based on “well, she did this and that and we’re scared of her and she wanted to kill me.”
As frustrating as this is for folks to see, what’s playing out with the Horman divorce case is normal in a very complex domestic split. Both spouses have rights, not just one of them.
The idea of TH pleading the fifth in any statements made regarding this divorce petition is logical and fair. All spouses would be entitled to do this if a concurrent criminal investigation has, by rumor, by vague remarks, by public or media statements such as “according to LE, Ms. Horman did this or that,” been setting TH up as a monster who might be responsible for the death of a child.
IF Terri Horman is a bad person and engaged in immoral behavior, for example, it’s much like the idea of the movie “I Want to Live” (where Susan Hayward played a bad character who did bad things, but was not guilty of the murder she was executed for). She might be, indeed, a bad person in her private adult life. But…was that the reason Kyron disappeared? Her statements on her own behavior, made concerning a divorce petition that accuses her of doing terrible things — such as the MFH plot — can then be used against her by police in the separate criminal investigation. So she should not say anything right now.
Of course this is terrible and it frustrates everyone, because it seems that it reduces the focus on finding Kyron in favor of catering to TH’s rights. But looked at fairly, TH’s rights cannot be compromised. If that occurs, all criminal investigations suddenly could get the green light to dig up dirt on anybody who’s accused of any crime without the accused have any avenue to defend him/herself.
Think of it this way — you smoke pot, you sell pot, you drop a few hits of acid, you’re an alcoholic, and you got fired from 3 jobs for substance abuse problems. You’re not a good person overall. You neglect your kids and your dog. But you haven’t killed someone, but you are accused of killing someone. Your bad acts are aggressively played out in court and in the media, allowing everyone to brand you a killer. But you didn’t commit the murder.
No matter if a person is a scuzzball, a person must still have the protection of a logical legal process.
The divorce is not the criminal trial, and must not be used to try and convict Terri Horman.
In the meantime, I personally would like to see a lot more progress in a shorter span of time to find Kyron Horman and give his parents closure. I feel LE early on very much dropped the ball on this situation and that their secrecy has backfired, creating a public lynching of only one “not a suspect” suspect, possibly at the expense of finding an little boy. If LE has encountered a massive set of illegal activities that involve people in high places — which I suspect they have — then I’m all for making sure the investigation is completed in a way that nails the right people without risk of them escaping justice. I just think that LE was in way over their head, very quickly in this case, and dropped the ball as of last June.
Well stated. In such an emotionally charged case as this, we need to remember that even if we believe someone is undeserving, removing constitutionally based protections affects all of us, eventually.
Moreover, it could interfere with a success prosecution in this case, another travesty we do not need.
B
@Malty. Yes, I think Terri looks pretty also…..as in pretty EVIL. I feel she has something to do with Kyron missing and “pretty” is just not what i see.
FWIW, I really want to encourage everyone to go back to the previous thread and read all of the posts made yesterday, including mine, of course. IMO many of us put a lot of time and effort into our posts and are hoping for feedback from others. There is a lot of interesting and important info. posted here from yesterday that will be helpful to everyone as we progress with the new thread and discussions. I will be inserting snippets of my lengthy post from yesterday morning, which I submitted at approx. 9:45 am PST.
26.enumclawrose says:
October 8, 2010 at 1:08 am
(snipped)
First, I don’t think RS is undercover, I think he and TH have been pointing their fingers at each other.
Blinks response to krowdkat 09/19 11:19am
Two nearly identical white trucks-
One parked in the rear, and Terri parked on the shoulder.
B
Ky left in the truck parked in the back.
Who’s white truck was in the back?
*****************************************************************
I agree with @erose that RS is not undercover LE. IMO RS’s white truck was in the back, and I believe that RS lured Ky out of the school and furthermore, someone saw Ky near and/or getting into that white truck. Possibly this witness assumed it was the Horman truck and thought nothing of it until Ky disappeared and LE arrived en masse to search and question everyone. I further believe the LE was hoping to find additional witnesses to same in order to shore up their case when it goes to trial. This is why they were asking for info. from anyone that saw the truck and/or people around or in the truck, during the last LE presser on Aug. 11th:
http://www.kptv.com/kyron-horman/24595649/detail.html
10. Idahogal says:
October 7, 2010 at 12:48 pm
(snipped)
IMHO we know who took Ky from the school that day and it was RS. The following info. and Blink quotes have led me to this belief:
He drove/drives a white Ford truck similar to KH’s
He knew Ky from home and school, therefore Ky trusted him, and he lured him outside to the truck without any fuss from Ky.
He was familiar with the school, routines, etc. because he had worked there
He was familiar to many of the students, faculty and parents at Skyline because he had worked there, therefore his presence would not be suspicious and perhaps would go “unnoticed” in the chaos of the SF (all of which provided him the opportunity)
He had plenty of motives: Canceled MFH, uproar at his home due to TH calling LE (which may have resulted in the discovery of other criminal activities, the departure of his wife and kids IF Elsy is indeed his wife, and his family/associates being put under a microscope by LE), his sexual relationship/motivation with TH.
He has not been back at Skyline since June 4th
He cooperated in the MFH sting, has testified before GJ, and has now “disappeared”
He is the ONLY PERSON involved in this mess that the media cannot/has not tracked down and hounded to death
IMOO: His and/or TH’s and/or Ky’s cell phone pings placed him and/or them at Sauvie Island on June 4th, he is under a sealed indictment, he has cut a deal with LE and the DA to plea for a lesser charge(s). He may have:
1. handed Ky off to someone else (perhaps a recently released jail inmate or associate of AS) either at the school or elsewhere, that person is now in custody and has given LE info. as to where Ky is OR
2. he may have told LE whom and where he handed Ky to (on Sauvie Island?), LE cannot find this person, and they are searching surrounding areas based on same OR
3. done something with Ky himself and is finally coming clean about it (IMO this one is doubtful as I agree with Blink that RS did not want to get “ his own hands dirty”, but in the end he virtually did anyway)
**********************************************************
Lastly, there was much discussion in the past few days about the man in the SF photo with Ky that Mayor Adams tweeted. IMO this is much ado about nothing, am I missing some great revelation here?
Maybe @Satori is willing to share her “AHA” experience with the rest of us? That would be great, TIA.
All wonderful work here.
Will someone confirm for me that Rudy Sanchez has 2 daughters? Several of you speak of that as if it is a given.
And that Jamie Mejia and Ubaldo are NOT Rudy’s children?
All pics are on scared monkey’s, link here to the left. Go to Kyron Horman, then there is a separate thread for pics.
@cbickel: “…the things we’re most lilely to hear now will be of the “he said, she said” variety and I really don’t wanna hear it, because I really don’t care.”
____________________
Yes, and isn’t that most of what has gone on so far as well? James and Kitty have to live out their lives with this legacy. Kitty is a toddler who has been away from her mother for months now. If she were to never see her mother again, because everyone decides that’s best for Kitty, that wound to her psyche will never go away.
If TH were found innocent of whatever, and some shared custody were eventually worked out between TH and KH, can you imagine the insane, crazy-making messages she would grow up with?
For the 3 children, this is a tragedy that can’t be made right. No matter who is “brought to justice” or whatever. There are no innocent adults in this picture. There are just adults whose backgrounds have not been fully exposed in the media. That I will promise you.
@Satori-I just viewed Terri’s Christmas pics through her fb…I don’t see anything out of the ordinary. Everyone seems to be smiling in the pics…no evidence of a food fight at Christmas dinner, though, the tree looks a little bare – maybe she threw some ornaments at Kaine? (Just kidding). I assume the tree looks a little bare due to fact she has a little one that possibly pulls stuff off the tree. I will say in one or two pics, Terri’s facial expressions look a little “off”, maybe tipsy?
Am I completely off in thinking that Rudy Sanchez can be considered an alias because he is Rodolpho Estrada? Or all of the other names that Blinksters have uncovered? I didn’t take it as meaning something more than that or that he was an undercover agent as I have been reading on other sites’ comment sections.
And I am sorry, but if someone wants to delay their divorce hearing for fear of self incrimination on criminal matters, then perhaps they should wait out those criminal matters before tearing their child’s life apart yet another time. Because if she is allowed parenting time and then packed off to prison, I am not seeing how this is in Kiara’s best interest.
Am I seeing things too black and white here?
@NelMel… excellent post and I agree 100%!
@Beejay… we both have been saying the same thing for a long time about the adults in this mess. No matter who did what to whom, it comes down to decisions that were made by KH and DY years ago about their son. They have to live with that. I pray every nite for Kyron and his siblings, those children will never be the same. The kids are the only innocents in this whole sordid mess IMO.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
Suit money docs. link from KOIN6 news, A MUST READ FOR ALL:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/c/0/9/c09a8c35-dbaa-4b10-860f-4487d00f3637/Memo_suitmoney.pdf
Mark my words, this case is unprecedented and will go down in infamy.
What a mess, and still no Ky. Bottom line here is that a innocent, joyful child paid the ultimate price for all of this adult bullshit and shenanigans, I am so incensed. I hope they put everyone involved with Ky’s fate in jail and throw away the key. May God judge and punish them all accordingly, this I pray.
NelMe, excellent post – I’m not saying or inferring in any way that TH should not be given her fair rights. I believe she should, every step of the way.
And I hear what you are saying about any other criminal acts, that may not be murder, that she could be guilty of and so would like to protect herself from.
Does that mean that she will continue to allow herself to be the “main focus” of the Kyron investigation until which time LE is able to actually solve it and rule her out?
Would she not then still be facing a divorce, and still be facing taking the stand to answer and domestic questions that may very well make her a suspect in the original criminal case that she is trying to avoid right now?
If she is innocent of murder or abduction, but guilty of say, an unrelated attempted murder for hire, will that still not stand as long as Kaine wishes to continue divorce action?
And, my original question: why doesn’t Bunch obtain the 911 records from the same place that LE obtained them? And would continuing with the divorce give Bunch the opportunity for discovery between him and Rackner?
They were requested, they are being withheld by LE as discovery in an ongoing criminal investigation.
B
NelMel, thank you again for the very articulate “voice of reason”. Keep talking. Idahogal — I think you’ve nailed it. And it seems there are two “man in the photo” opps — one man with a red flannel shirt and a little girl (maybe two little girls) and the other accounted for by the mayor and skyline parent.
I’m thinking red flannel guy is RS, with his daughters/nieces/whatever, making Kyron lurable (maybe Kyron has met these little girls too) and Sauvie Island is either the scene of the final crime or the hand-off location, though if red flannel guy is RS and the kids were with him throughout (kids who are now gone and can’t “testify”) I don’t think he’s the ultimate “perp” — but he certainly has associates capable of doing many deeds.
RS is most definitely now in cahoots with/protected by LE and that’s why he is unaccounted for after being in their hands. I don’t for a minute think he came forth on his own, as originally reported by the media — but I don’t think any of us bought that.
Terri is seemingly involved in criminal activity (all but admitted by her own attorney) — likely drugs, with the DEA involvement — and likely with RS.
And…whether the MFH was a misunderstanding, a cancelled plan, or non-existent, there is more to Kaine than we have been told. I don’t think the December 911 call was about RS.
Lastly, I think we are going to see resolution to this very soon. I hope and pray Kyron is alive and as well as could be considering the trauma suffered. I will hang on to that thought until proven otherwise. It’s important in this world to keep the faith.
FWIW and MOO
Idahogal,
I have copied below what transpired in a discussion between Fitz, Newsatfive, ME, and comments from Blink on two occassions. I just suggest that you read it in the sequence that it all transpired. My biggest belief is that powers are involved in this case and not in a good way. THAT was my “Aha” moment. Other than that, you will have to ask Blink I guess.
=============================
Satori says:
October 5, 2010 at 11:34 am
Fitz,
That is a very interesting scenario you bring up. So, are you saying you understand that Terri heard mention of someone saying that Kyron was seen with a male chaperon and was merely repeating it in an email she wrote — I believe — versus her directly seeing this?
========
fitz says:
October 5, 2010 at 7:44 am
I’ve had a strange feeling about the “man chaperone and 2 girls” sighting with Kyron on the 4th. If RS is involved could he have still been in custody of his 2 girls and they attended the fair and made off with Kyron. Noone seemed to put much stock in the sighting but it was a witness from the fair, not terri, who saw them. If he arrived with his girls it would make him less of a threat to kyron and other parents would brush him off as a parent from the school. JMO
I think it is interesting that the only comment the Mayor ever made publicly on this case was about the ID of the older man in Kyron’s display pic. I understand he has been located, sticks with me though.
B
===========
Newsatfive says:
October 6, 2010 at 10:41 pm
fitz says: October 5, 2010 at 7:44 am
“I’ve had a strange feeling about the ‘man chaperone and 2 girls’ sighting with Kyron on the 4th. If RS is involved could he have still been in custody of his 2 girls and they attended the fair and made off with Kyron. Noone seemed to put much stock in the sighting but it was a witness from the fair, not terri, who saw them. If he arrived with his girls it would make him less of a threat to kyron and other parents would brush him off as a parent from the school. JMO”
Satori says: October 5, 2010 at 11:34 am
“Fitz,That is a very interesting scenario you bring up. So, are you saying you understand that Terri heard mention of someone saying that Kyron was seen with a male chaperon and was merely repeating it in an email she wrote — I believe — versus her directly seeing this?”
Blink says:
“I think it is interesting that the only comment the Mayor ever made publicly on this case was about the ID of the older man in Kyron’s display pic. I understand he has been located, sticks with me though. B”
I agree that the guy in the photo would seem to be a likely suspect, especially given that nobody has ID’d him publicly, and because Mayor Sam Adams made such a fuss over him (three tweets in a one-minute time span?!)
The last time Mayor Adams got that excited, it was Gay Pride Week! Or was it over his backyard chicken coop? Nevermind.
Sam Adams posted links to “help find Kyron” articles and websites early on (total of three tweets on June 6 and June 8). Except for those six tweets, nothing else.
If the guy in the photo is the person with whom Terri left Kyron (presumably so that she could do whatever Terri does all day), then the man in the photo is the vampire Blink mentioned previously. He isn’t someone Terri necessarily knew well, but at least well enough in “Terriland” — say 10 minute? — to leave Kyron with him.
I recall reading somewhere that the Sheriff’s office was looking into the guy in the photo. I have not seen anything credible to indicate that the sheriff’s office has identified the man.
I’ve seen speculation posted about what the sheriff’s office concluded, but nothing even close to credible.
Putting it all together, if the guy in the photo was involved, wouldn’t he have a connection to Rudy? Just as important, if Desiree knew the identity of who Kyron left with, and that ID lead Desiree to believe Kyron was alive, then what does that tell us about the guy in the photo?
Here are the tweets from Our Saint of Perpetual Tweetdom, Mayor Sam Adams (twitter.com/MayorSamAdams):
MayorSamAdams
PLEASE RT: Help Mult Co Sheriff find missing 7-year-old boy Kyron Horman Photo & Story: http://bit.ly/95nuNa tips: 503-261-2847 10:18 AM Jun 6th via TweetDeck from Hayden Island, Portland PLEASE RETWEET: Help Mult Co Sheriff find missing 7-year-old boy Kyron Horman Photo & Story: http://bit.ly/95nuNa tips: 503-261-2847 10:16 AM Jun 6th via TweetDeck
MayorSamAdams
Help Mult Co Sheriff find missing 7-year-old boy Kyron Horman Photo & Story: http://bit.ly/95nuNa tips: 503-261-2847 #pdx #fb 10:19 AM Jun 6th via TweetDeck from Hayden Island, Portland
MayorSamAdams
6-8-2010 Still Missing: Kyron Horman tips: 503-261-2847 poster: http://bit.ly/bM5vJI update: http://bit.ly/afxUJv #fb 6:03 AM Jun 8th via TweetDeck from King, Portland
MayorSamAdams
Please retweet. RT @PDXsays: Do you recognize the man in this photo (2nd photo down in story)? http://bit.ly/anVz0r #pdxsafety #Kryon #PDX 12:51 PM Jun 22nd via TweetDeck
MayorSamAdams
Please retweet. RT @PDXsays: Do you recognize the man in this photo (2nd photo down in story)? http://bit.ly/anVz0r #pdxsafety #Kryon #PDX 12:51 PM Jun 22nd via TweetDeck
MayorSamAdams
Do you recognize the man in this photo (2nd photo down in the story)? http://bit.ly/anVz0r #fb 12:52 PM Jun 22nd via TweetDeck
NOTE: I don’t have anything against Mayor Sam Adams. He sounds like he’s an interesting character in an office that has attracted its fair share of characters over the years. I’m quite sure he would be a lot of fun at dinner parties, for sure
======================
Satori says:
October 7, 2010 at 12:23 am
Newsatfive and Blink,
While I studied Blinks comments related to the stranger in the photo and the Mayor’s only comment on the case, I am AMAZED how this comment truly escaped ME of all people!! I did not come to any sort of conclusion. And yes, I have heard quite a bit about Portland’s “Mayor.”
HOWEVER, when I read Newsatfive’s latest post on the strange man in the photo, chills wentup my spine. And I stopped to post this before I ever finished reading. I needed time to ?????
Back to reading…..
========================
Satori says:
October 7, 2010 at 12:51 am
Blink, Newsatfive, and All,
This is the way it is. Always, when I study something intense, it requires a day of rest for my brain to assimilate the information. It processes in the night. That is way, crash studying really does not work …not for me anyway.
When I read Blink’s initial comments on the Mayor’s limited response on Kyron, it did not really resonate — perhaps largely because I was already processing a boat-load of opposite information. The very funny part is, I questioned the powers that be in the very beginning. And after sleeping on Blink’s statement, coupled with Newsatfive’s input……oh yes, why Mayor. Why comment on that one and only solitary man in the photo of potential opportunists to dismiss? Boots? Anyone?
I get the feeling that is all I need to know.
Satorie is a smartie.
Evaluate a person’s intentions-
Then what they actually say.
B
32.Idahogal says:
I agree with @erose that RS is not undercover LE. IMO RS’s white truck was in the back, and I believe that RS lured Ky out of the school and furthermore, someone saw Ky near and/or getting into that white truck.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good morning, Idahogal. Love your post. I just looked back through the posts and could not find where anyone implied that RS was undercover LE. I have said before that it *appears* he is being shielded by the prosecution in the same way I have seen confidential informants (who, BTW, are not LE) and material witnesses be protected from the media. I do believe that he MAY be involved in Ky’s disappearance, just not sure to what extent. I just am not convinced at all that he is the big fish.
The man in the picture is grandpa/relative Estrada/Sanchez. Kyron new LS’s girls through Terri. This is how he was lured outside. Estrada/Sanchez wife and girls left the country? because the kids know Kyron went with them outside to their vehicle.
42. Satori says:
October 8, 2010 at 11:28 am
@Satori- Thank you for the response, well done. You have come aboard fast and fierce, love it! IMOO, the guy in the background of the SF pic with Ky tweeted by Sam Adams…he looks like gubernatorial candidate John Kitzhaber…seriously, that is the first name/face that popped into my head. Granted it is a lousy pic, and I am NOT inferring that it was him. MOO again.
******************************************************
43. GraceintheHills says:
October 8, 2010 at 11:30 am
Good morning, Idahogal. Love your post. I just looked back through the posts and could not find where anyone implied that RS was undercover LE.
@graceinthehills – I am referring to this post by @puzzled:
38.puzzled says:
October 7, 2010 at 7:41 pm
(snipped)
“this is my quandry … is Rudy Sanchez aka who??? a good guy?? as in working as informant on bigger issue pre-Kyron abuduction .. with DEA??
***********************************************
Here is a sampling of some of the Sanchez family AKA’s courtesy of:
enumclawrose says:
October 7, 2010 at 2:18 am
Doing a reverse address search on the business addresses in my last post, the following names 1-9 are attached to a least one or more of the addresses. The eight additional names of possible relations were associated with one or more of the primary names on the reverse address search.
1. Rodolfo Sanchez Estrada (36)
Aka Rodolfo Sanchez, Rodolfo S Estrada
2. Jaime Sanchez Estrada (32)
Aka Jaime Sanchez Estrada SR, Jaime S Estrada, Jaime Estrada, Jaime Sanchez, Jamie Sanchez, Sanchez Estrada, Estrada R Sanchez, Estrada Sanchez
3. Ramiro Sanchez Estrada (49)
Aka Ramiro E Sanchez, Ramierz Estradia Sanchez, Estrada Ramiro Sanchez, Estrada R Sanchez, Ramiro Estrada, Ramiro Sanchez
*4. Rodolfo Sanchez Estrada (91)
Aka Rodolfo Sanchez, Rodolfo Estrada, Rodolfo S Estrada, Rodolfo Sanchezestrada, Rodolfo E Sanchez, Rodolfo S Sanchez Estrada
5. Leticia Sanchez
Aka Estrada Jaime Sanchez, Estrada Jamie Sanchez, Estrada J Sanchez
6. Roberto Sanchez
Aka Robert E Sanchez
7. Silvia Sanchez
Aka Silbia Sanchez
8. Lidia Sanchez
9. Francisca Estrada (34)
Possible relations:
**Lidia Sanchez-Sanchez
**Lydia Sanchez
Olivia Sanchez Estrada
Adriana Sanchez
Mercedes Angel
Jose Manuel Avila
Arturo S Castro
Baurista E Escalante
* I question this name and age as their is also a 91 year old Ubaldo Sanchez. Seems strange, two EXACTLY 91 year old men. Also a grandfather of a Sanchez Estrada male with the last name Sanchez Estrada does not seem right. FWIW
@ The lawyers saying Rudy is an alias. We all know that Rudy is short for Rodolfo. I think it is a bit weird that they cant find the guy. I mean, Terri was sleeping with him, doesn’t she know where to look? SO what if he disappeared, is in custody, or is under witness protection for a larger case or something like that? Who knows.
This seems the first (?) we are hearing of a 911 call in December. WTH? I know I must admit to my own morbid curiosity about the calls in question including the “Rudy lunged at me” call.
I read the article about Kaine saying that we should just be patient. I agree we do not want to see any legal missteps. I hope Kyron is found and comes home soon.
“Boots” ? The cat? I’m confused. I’ve missed a lot of posts, need to start over.
“”amychika says:
October 8, 2010 at 12:40 am
from today’s katu “…she (TH) had hired someone to kill him.”
now, question is to kill whom? Kyron or as it was earlier alleged, Kaine? or both of them?”"
This comment really makes you wonder hu?? Would also explain why they thought the undercover sting might work because half of the MFH was complete…
Also someone commented up thread that maybe the 911 calls would shine the light on Kaine being an abuser.. If that was the case I would think TH’s side would want them running on every broadcast possible.
I have GOT to stop going to bed at night … that’s when all the activity takes place. lol
Am I the only one who is noticing an identical similarity
in the little girl in the photo with the man/pregnant woman,
to be the same as the missing Elsy’s daughter?
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/22/kyron-horman-update-man-spotted-in-photo-from-stepmoms-facebook-page/
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewCsawDetail&caseNum=1148744&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US