Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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Blink, any news on the result of Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez’s Oct 7 court hearing?
skull found ???
http://www.kirotv.com/video/25389456/index.html
If you ever feel in doubt about calling on someone you have suspicions of, don’t! At least it will get a visit, and even if it all checks out, good can come of it. I work with a mom whose 10 yr old step daughter told her teacher she was getting spanked, long story shortened, visits were made, etc.
All was dismissed, but they were given info on free counseling for the girl, the Child Services worker looked into getting free/discounted glasses for her, and some other services they were not aware of. So even tho the mom was very upset about the whole situation, issues the daughter was having were brought to light, and given tons of attention.
I don’t have access to any microsoft programs so am stuck…found this info. on an old OL post, IDK if this has already been posted long ago, so FWIW:
Booking Information
SWIS ID: 705157
Name: Sanchez, Ruben R
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Race: Hispanic
Height: 5 ft 8 in
Weight: 190 lbs
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown
Arresting Agency: Gresham Police Department
Arrest Date: 7/15/2010 10:05 PM
Booking Date: 7/16/2010 2:07 AM
Current Status: In Custody
Assigned Facility: MCDC
Projected Release Date: Unknown
************************************
1.alwayssunday says:
October 15, 2010 at 6:57 am
Blink, any news on the result of Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez’s Oct 7 court hearing?
I’ll second that question…anything at all, Blink?
Guys, I answered this on October 7.
It was continued, and his lawyer is seeking a dismissal.
B
Okay, sorry Blink, found it. Oct. 7th was a busy day here! I wasn’t sure what r/s meant. Thank you. So…what is up with the motion to dismiss? He has rape convictions, failure to register as sex offender, etc., are those charges all expired or time already served? Anyone? Does it even matter in regards to this case? I don’t get it…argh!
****************************
38.Annie says:
October 7, 2010 at 3:18 pm
I wish someone was tweeting the Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez hearing as well today. Blink, do you know if there was a hearing today or if there was another continuance?
Yep. Pending a motion to dismiss, he is r/s for 12/7/2010.
B
@Idahogal,
Going off your post about Ruben Sanchez, I had a couple of minutes and found some links that maybe others on here have time to check through.
First is a Multnomah county foreclosure list with Rebecca and Ruben Sanchez listed.
[DOC] John Emil Jaha – 8:10am
File Format: Microsoft Word – View as HTML
West Linn Or 97068-3543. Sharline S Livingston. 578 Polk St. Monterey Ca 93940-2810. Rebecca K & Ruben Sanchez. 13815 Se 119th Dr. Clackamas Or 97015-7605 …
multnomahforeclosures.com/NODS/060209/Clack_052909_Labels.doc
**********************************************************
Next is an Intellius freebie report
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&qf=ruben&qmi=&qn=Sanchez&qs=OR&trackit=74&focusfirst=1
If we do a search under just **R sanchez*
I pulled up the following, Is this our Elsy??????
Rachelle L Sanchez
View Details
34 Portland, OR
Boring, OR
Clackamas, OR
Damascus, OR
Espiridion V Sanchez (52)
Espiridian V Sanchez
Guadalupe M Sanchez (51)
Trinidad V Sanchez (41)
Villega E Sanchez (38)
Elisa S Sanchez
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?trackit=65&ReportType=1&qf=R&qn=Sanchez&qs=OR&
20.evie says:
October 14, 2010 at 8:33 pm
@evie- Thanks for the note pad tips! How are you accessing the TH facebook “archive”? I would love to look at that, it could be very helpful with Mockingbird’s runway project and other theories, don’t you think? TIA.
@mockingbird – I’ll try to help with this when I get my computer back tomorrow and can access my kajillion notes. Great idea!
@kimberly- Good sleuthing. Oy vey, am I the only one that thinks there are too many Sanchezes running around to count? It is the Spanish “Smith”!
@beejay- Where are you, my friend?
@Deb1948….”skull found ???”
I did a mapquest on this and found out joint base lewis-mcchord is a little over 2 hrs southwest of portland. The article I read did give any details as to sex or age. To early to tell at time of report.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
Just in from KATU news – TH seeks parenting time with Kiara:
News link:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Terri-Horman-files-request-to-have-parenting-time/-d_hPhrbT0itFzEgjnQlTA.cspx
Motion to modify RO:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/4/4/7/44761db4-e9a6-466d-9951-d1946344e2a9/Terri_Paperwork.pdf
Okay, sorry, obviously from KOIN news…
@ElizabethinOr
I can so relate to your post
out shopping sometimes I see a parent getting rough and yelling
at a child and think where is the love!!
Or wonder if the child is really theirs
scarey
We have seen pics of the back roads of S Island and the weather was
very wet
I have to question Terri’s judgement to drive out there with a sick
child
what about a break down or flat tire
if her story is true it looks like she needs parenting classes to
me
Before she spends time with Kiara
MOO
FWIW I live in WA state and have a friend who is a teacher. She told me it is sort of an unwritten rule with CPS that they wait until they receive three “complaints” on a parent before they investigate on behalf of the child. She told me the teachers in her school sort of back each other up if they share concerns about a child so that the call quota is met and they get some action.
Sadly, systems are abused and a CPS call can come from a vindictive ex-spouse, neighbor, etc. and they cannot always take a call on face value, but the children that really need intervention are failed because of this. There are so many considerations including privacy. Whether my friend and the other teachers are abusing the system is a question for debate, but they feel if they are, they are doing it for the benefit of the children.
Kimberly says:
October 15, 2010 at 12:19 pm
If we do a search under just **R sanchez*
I pulled up the following, Is this our Elsy??????
Rachelle L Sanchez
NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo
riverpearl says:
October 15, 2010 at 4:07 am
Terri Horman “is not in a position at this time to testify on her own behalf in support of an award of custody and parenting time,” her lawyer said, “because of the ongoing criminal investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance.” [So w/o TMH speaking, she should get regular and frequent contact with Kiara ??? WTH?]
“Yet, if Kaine Horman insists on having someone professionally supervise his estranged wife’s visits with her daughter, he should pay because Terri Horman is not employed and has no income or significant assets, Bunch argues.” [Is she not receiving over $500/mo child support & paid a $350K retainer ??][Does it not always seem that TMH gets MONEY into the conversation & HER NEED for it ??]
———————————————————————————-
I don’t think that Kiara’s visitation with her mother should depend on whether TMH says what she knows. Its not fair to Kiara who is only a baby and knows nothing of the situation that has been created by the adults in her life. I also think Kiara is a person and not some object to be withheld or granted as part of a technique to force her mother to tell what she knows, if indeed TMH has more to tell. JMO
I believe that the $500+ a month that TMH gets for child support is supposed to go for the needs of her son James. I don’t think $500 a month is not that much money anyway. JMO
“Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Kyron Horman Investigation – Task Force Business Plan”
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Kyron_investigation_plan.pdf
Found this when doing some searching today, and it directly links Rudy and Jaime together, ie appears to be brothers.
15. ESTRADA, JAIME S 41 MILWAUKIE, OR
ESTRADA, RODOLFO S (age 36)
16. ESTRADA, JAIME PORTLAND, OR
http://www.usa-people-search.com/Results.aspx?view=PE
ESTRADA, RODOLFO S
Associated names:
SANCHEZ, RODOLFO
36 CANBY, OR
CLACKAMAS, OR
MILWAUKIE, OR
OREGON CITY, OR
PORTLAND, OR
ESTRADA, JAIME S (age 41)
SANCHEZ, UBALDO R
http://www.usa-people-search.com/results.aspx?pID=483039164&fn=RODOLFO&mn=S&ln=ESTRADA
riverpearl says:
October 14, 2010 at 10:15 pm
I commend the phone calls … BUT I believe each of us MUST STEP-IT-UP.
Child after child “story” of abuse, neglect & more times than not, a death of a child is becoming more “routine” in our daily lives than “isolated incident”.
I believe phone calls to CPS is good -BUT- I believe we also should CALL the POLICE. IF a person believes
drugs are involved, than call DEA, too.
How many times, once the police are “notified” that a child has “disappeared”, “records” show up of “calls” to CPS ??? It is the police who are left again to pick up the pieces of another child’s ruined life.
Does it not reason that the “way” society is “treating” child neglect etc. is NOT working & we NEED to CHANGE our/the BEHAVIOR ? -since- the old behavior is NOT stopping all this madness ?
Yes, I am p’d off by the “case of” of Kyron, Zahra, Caylee … enough is enough, there has to be a way to stop this run away train wreck of children in our communities.
We need to “call the authorities if we are suspicious” -AND- call ALL the authorities -AND- keep a LOG of DATE, PH#, PERSON NOTIFIED, DEPT. & KEEP CALLING.
IF possible take photos, videos, write license plate #’s, whatever – COLLECTION EVIDENCE to SUPPORT your concerns. This has to stop NOW.
IF @ ANYTIME the person you reach either refuses to give their name -or- “brushes you off” & tells you to “call someone else” — ASK for their SUPERVISOR & get the supervisor name, dept., & phone number. TREAT your phone calls AS IF THIS WAS YOUR OWN CHILD IN PERIL.
We need to have our ACTIONS -&-our WORDS AGREE in our FIGHT for children BEFORE a child is LOST.
It takes a VILLAGE to RAISE a CHILD–so by God, let’s RAISE our VOICES to STOP this MADNESS.
PS. I am leaning towards making calls to the local DA & local media. Just as each, DA & media, get involved after a child is “lost”, may be having them involved “before” will help create ACCOUNTABLE.
PSS> There are lawyers posting/ reading @ BOC- Do any of you have suggedtions of the BEST way to create accountability w/ reporting child abuse/ neglect etc ?
———————————————————————-
riverpearl … a person after my own heart you are. I do believe I just found myself a new hero. I am with you 200%! If only people would stop going about life with their heads buried in the sand to the evil that is done so often out there, especially to the innocent children, I do believe we could in fact, little by little, change the world … one child at a time. Strength in numbers, no? Godspeed my blogger friend!
@Malty
“I think maybe there are 2 Rudys
one thing that bothers me is he just does not
look like the Mexican landscapers who work
around here
I don’t know it is a gut thing”
I agree totally.
1. SANCHEZ, UBALDO R OREGON CITY, OR
ESTRADA, RODOLFO S (age 36)
SANCHEZ, RODOLFO
http://www.usa-people-search.com/results.aspx?pID=1291699678&fn=UBALDO&mn=R&ln=SANCHEZ
Who can live on $500/month?
As far as paying “supervised” visitation? Are they saying you have to pay for this? In most states, I thought, “supervised” visitation could be done with grandparents or other agreed upon family members or friends. I would think Terri’s father and mother could “supervise” these visitations. They would be directed as to what the rules are and the consequences of failing to comply.
I need to do some more reading here to catch up…maybe I missed something.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
7.Kimberly says:
October 15, 2010 at 12:19 pm
If we do a search under just **R sanchez*
I pulled up the following, Is this our Elsy??????
Rachelle L Sanchez
View Details
34 Portland, OR
Boring, OR
Clackamas, OR
Damascus, OR
Espiridion V Sanchez (52)
Espiridian V Sanchez
Guadalupe M Sanchez (51)
Trinidad V Sanchez (41)
Villega E Sanchez (38)
Elisa S Sanchez
*******************************************************
@brainfreze
Thank you for your post, However; I wasn’t refering to
Rachelle Sanchez, I was referring to ELISA S SANCHEZ,
the last person on the list under possible relatives
associated with the name Rachelle Sanchez.
9.Cbickel says:
October 15, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Ft.Lewis/McChord is North of Portland just outside of Olympa, WA. I go by there a lot btwn. here and Seattle. It is about a 2 – 2 1/2 hour drive. dependig on traffic getting over the Columbia on I-5.
DEB1948 says:
October 15, 2010 at 7:06 am
skull found ???
http://www.kirotv.com/video/25389456/index.html
The 1st thought that entered my mind when I saw this was in WA was, “Oh my … is THIS possibly our Ky?” But the very 2nd thought that entered my mind sadly was, “Is this possibly the missing 10-yr old Lindsay Baum from McCleary, WA? She disappeared in 2009 walking home from a friend’s house and was never seen again. Her parent’s had divorced not long before and her dad lived in TN and Lindsay had taken the divorce hard. Her father was also supposed to be sent overseas to either Afghanistan or Iraq a week or so after his daughter went missing … I don’t know whatever happened with that, but I know many people were trying to petition the gov’t in his behalf to try to get his deployment postponed. Anyway … McCleary, WA is only a 51 min drive down I-5 to Joint Base Lewis-McChord. Sadly, my gut feeling is this is quite possibly final closure for the Baum family w/the proximity.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&expIds=17259,26637,26766&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=24&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=joint+base+lewis-mcchord+washington&fb=1&gl=us&hq=joint+base+lewis-mcchord+washington&hnear=joint+base+lewis-mcchord+washington&ei=PsW4TIHLO42usAOgxZzqDg&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB8QtgMwAA
http://www.findlindseybaum.com/
She would’ve been 12 yrs old by now.
I’m still catching up on all the posts I missed, so I apologize if this has already been posted:
Kyron Horman Investigation – Task Force Business Plan
http://portlandtribune.com/documents/efiles/KHTaskForceBusPlanWallsMedia_release.pdf
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Ok last one for tonight,
So when doing a freebie search,
under just “E. Sanchez,”
I found E. Sanchez to be possibly related
to “Yolanda Sanchez” aka Yolanda Estrada.
E Sanchez
View Details
Oregon City, OR
Yolanda Sanchez
Adriana Sanchez
Joel Sanchez (44)
**************************************************
8. ESTRADA, YOLANDA
Associated names:
SANCHEZ, YOLANDA
OREGON CITY, OR
SANCHEZ, CAMILO MARTINEZ (age 50)
CASTROSANCHEZ, ARTURO
SANCHEZ, PEDRO N
see all relatives…
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?trackit=65&ReportType=1&qf=E&qn=Sanchez&qs=OR&
http://www.usa-people-search.com/Default.aspx?view=PE
There is US Army reserve soldier named Richard Ingram who went missing from Ft. Lewis in 2009, possibly suicidal.
To All
I think I may have possibly found RS’s wife.
Silbia Sanchez
View Details
Oregon City, OR
Rodolfo Sanchez
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?qf=silbia&qmi=&qn=Sanchez&qc=&qs=OR&trackit=74&ReportType=1
MOO = If LE truly believes TH was directly involved in Kyron’s disappearance and can prove it even with circumstantial evidence or has sources who’ve come forward to fully support their theories…she will not be allowed visitation.
I feel the reason LE has not come out and stated TH is a suspect is because they feel she is withholding information that will help them solve this case…leading to another perp (RS & Assoc.) as being responsible. I feel they are trying very hard to tie her into the crime so they are not excluding her.
Prior to asking taxpayers to put up an additional $200K+++, they would have arrested at least Terri if they had enough evidence to do so. If they could arrest her on the MFH charge…they would. If they could arrest her on Kyron’s disappearance…they would.
MOO – We need this little precious Frog Prince home…we need to begin to heal…we need an arrest…we need closure.
Praying for Kyron and his family…why is God not answering our prayers?
From FatCatLurker on SM page 38 of the Kyron thread
“Yes Puzzler here is where he says she got it all back; Thanks!
RUDY!!!!!
Dede said that a reporter friend of hers told her that the name Rudy was indeed an alias, his real name is Ansalmo sanchez( not sure that is spelled right)
Rudy was in the divorce court along with MC, but neither testified.
So Rudy is accounted for but the prosecution is denying the defense access to Rudy/Ansalmo. According to Dede. She also said she knows of absolutly nothing of a previous attempt of a MFH by Terri that would lead to Rudy being an undercover cop. She is pretty Rudy has never seen Kyron because Terri didn’t think Rudy had seen him.
Dede never noticed a security system in the Horman home and if there was it was not used to her knowledge.”
Wow, could this be correct? Blink were you giving us a HUGE hint with the post of that Anselmo’s pic?
@SouthernMom:
Who can live on $500/month?
———————————————-
I agree. But even further, who can live on $500/month while paying for one of the most expensive attorneys in Oregon?
SouthernMom says:
October 15, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Who can live on $500/month?
As far as paying “supervised” visitation? Are they saying you have to pay for this? In most states, I thought, “supervised” visitation could be done with grandparents or other agreed upon family members or friends. I would think Terri’s father and mother could “supervise” these visitations. They would be directed as to what the rules are and the consequences of failing to comply.
——————–
There are DHS supervisors, private agency supervisors, and relative supervisors. I doubt if there is a DHS case for Kiara since I don’t see anything obvious that warrants that at this time. The judge will decide what’s allowed and who will pay – probably Kaine, but she may be told to contribute something. Not saying what’s right/wrong or will/will not happen. I assume the judge will be asked to determine how much and where. Terri has no job so it would be easiest to tell her to come to Portland rather than have Kaine and Kiara go to Roseburg, at least most of the time.
If I were Terri’s lawyers, I would not want her alone with Kiara and I would want a trained, neutral party supervising – someone who could testify to her parenting skills if need be in the future. As I understand it, this is a request for modification of the RO, so the custody decisions will come up again in the process of getting the divorce. If I were Kaine, I would want the same thing, even if I had to pay for it.
Terri’s parents may be wonderful people (I don’t know them), but it appears they overlook a lot about Terri’s behavior and she doesn’t always give them the same story she tells others. This would make people dubious about any reports they give. As I said previously, Terri needs the visitation to go well, just as Kiara does.
Southern Mom,
I have often asked why God does not seem to answer our prayers. From what I understand from certain practices is that God answers prayer in his time. That has always been a tough one for me.
Sometimes I think the more we know, the more we ask, “Why?”. There is so much pain and suffering in the world, and I always ask, “Why?”. I wish I had an easy answer, or any answer that makes real sense to me. But I don’t.
My thoughts are: The very best we can do, in addition to any prayer, is to be good and kind to one another. I think this is very important and perhaps holds the key to much suffering.
We must be real good examples. I am not a preacher, but when I think of Jesus, I think of all the things that he is noted for teaching that are truly absent in our society. I also think of great leaders like Gandhi who practiced peaceful protest and succeeded. These are the things we must give energy to as we seek to solve the problems at hand. It is all too easy become upset and angry. I know.
“I think maybe there are 2 Rudys
one thing that bothers me is he just does not
look like the Mexican landscapers who work
around here
I don’t know it is a gut thing”
How do Mexican landscapers “look”? …This sounds a little racist to me, guys. Mexico is a culturally diverse country, believe it or not. Indigenous peoples of Oaxaca look entirely different then the Lacandon Maya from the southeast of the country or mestizos from Baja California. All white people don’t look alike, and neither do all Mexicans.
BTW, I like the site a lot and do a fair amount of reading here.
@30.SouthernMom says:
October 15, 2010 at 7:06 pm
———————————–
You are right…if they had any evidence against TH she would have been arrested and she hasn’t….so…why shouldn’t she have visitation rights to see Kiara?.
My hope is with time they will collect the evidence they need to arrest the perp(s) involved. LE needs to focus on others in addition to TH and hopefully this is what is happening. Wait and see…
@30.SouthernMom says:
October 15, 2010 at 7:06 pm
———————————–
PS: The last person(s) to see Ky alive is not TH. jmo
You have mis-understood what I was questioning RE:TMH “right” to CHANGE an RO.
RO’s require both parties to give their “reasons” the RO should change or stay the same, meaning they Petitioner – KH v .Respondent – TMH are to TALK to the court/ Judge.
The Restraining Order gives Respondent TMH 30-days to contest the RO.
TMH has not done that, it is almost 3 MONTHS [90-DAYS] PASS the contesting RO spelled out in paperwork TMH received June 28, 2010.
I have included portions of their RO below & link. I have also included portion of a blank Respondent form & link.
A RO respondent is to tell WHY the RO should NOT be in place.
The IRS considers child support AS INCOME & income taxes may be paid.
Yes, in TMH divorce from husband #2 child support was awarded. But she is LIVING w/her parents in their Roseburg home. How much is TMH PAYING towards her living expenses? We have seen her driving her parents car, which her parents would have insured.
These are question Petitioner KH would have the right to ask about since Respondent TMH claims NO INCOME.
Simply -how are TMH living expenses being met & if it is true JM is living w/her, how ? -if, as TMH motion claims she has NO INCOME ? W/i Respondent TMH motion requests Petitioner KH PAY for ANY TMH costs related to supervised visitation. Yes, the very supervised visitation TMH attorneys ASKED for in 10/07 court appearance re:abatement of divorce.
The CUSTODY/PARENTING TIME MATTER PENDING Box is checked on the RO & states it is PART OF the DIVORCE.
I “questioned” HOW TMH can ignore the 30-day response to RO, ask for & receive a 90-day divorce abatement (which includes child & money matters) & than turn around w/ a motion that involves those two issues ?
IF Petitioner KH is REQUIRED to produce HIS TRUE expenses & income than Respondent TMH is REQUIRED to be TRUTHFUL in her expenses & income. Which leads back to the MONEY question ie. Houze retainer & TMH refusal to talk.
So, can you see this is like chasing one’s tail, each item, each motion connects. My question was & is how can TMH have it both ways ?
______________________________________________
THIS FORM MUST BE ATTACHED TO ALL COPIES OF THE RESTRAINING ORDER
TO RESPONDENT: A RESTRAINING ORDER HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE COURT WHICH AFFECTS YOUR RIGHTS. THIS ORDER IS NOW IN EFFECT. You have the right to contest this Restraining Order as set out in the paragraph(s) checked below.
http://www.courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/forms/2010FAPAUpdate/Packet1/NoticeReqHrgPacket-3-10.pdf
A REQUEST FOR HEARING must be made within 30 days after you receive the order. You must include your address and telephone number with your request for a hearing. The hearing will be held within 21 days, or within 5 days if you are contesting a temporary custody provision (not parenting time). At the hearing, a judge will decide whether the order should be canceled, changed, or continued. If you do not go to the hearing, the restraining order may be upheld (continued) and all matters decided against you.
If no hearing date has been set already and you do not request a hearing within 30 days after you receive this Restraining Order, this restraining order will continue in effect as issued.
______________________________________
Case No. 1006-66086 ENTERED JUN 28 2010
RESTRAINING ORDER TO PREVENT ABUSE (Family Abuse Prevention Act)
Kaine Andrew Horman v. Terri Lynn Moulton Horman
Pg #2 of 8 RESTRAINING ORDER TO PREVENT ABUSE
3.This order involves minor CHILDREN Judge’s Initials
B Existence of other orders concerning the minor children involved: 3B KM
[X] CUSTODY/PARENTING TIME MATTER PENDING: No child/ren custody, parenting time, guardianship or juvenile dependency proceeding has been commenced in Mult. Co. Oregon divorce proceeding (State/Tribe/County)
http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/08/Restraining_Order.pdf
=============
cd says:
October 15, 2010 at 3:25 pm
I don’t think that Kiara’s visitation with her mother should depend on whether TMH says what she knows… I believe that the $500+ a month that TMH gets for child support…
RE: My comments @ October 15, 2010 at 10:09 pm~ Totally JMHO.
@ SouthernMom says:
October 15, 2010 at 7:06 pm
“Praying for Kyron and his family…why is God not answering our prayers?”
G-d is answering our prayers.
As a convert to the Jewish faith, perhaps I pay more attention to old fables and sayings that people born to into such a complicated religion have set aside.
There is the story that my neighbors in my hometown — an elderly Jewish couple — told me about prayers, and why the human mind believes at times that prayers have gone unanswered.
Mrs. “M” leaned on the old fence between her back yard and my father’s back yard and told me that “G-d does not answer prayers with what you asked for. G-d answers prayers by making us see what we did not see, hear what we have not heard, and know what we did not know.
I am repeating her choppy words because her musical Polish voice and her sing-song Yiddish and German and Polish all merged to sometimes sound simply incoherent. I’m sure there was some Italian tossed in there as well. Mrs. M and her husband had lived in seven countries.
Prayers for Kyron will be answered. And when they are, they will also tell us something of ourselves, why we cared so much about him, and why we search and search to find news of him.
The Line …”children involved: 3B KM” is scrambled, the 3B KM is from the above line: Judges Initials.
Please excuse & as always, JMHO. Thanx
47.ElizabethinOR says:
October 15, 2010 at 3:05 am
Elizabeth, I have to comment because I understand your frustration. When I reported the drug dealers next door, I felt that the people at the crime hotline were the only ones who really took an interest in what I told them. They patiently collected information from me, including license plates numbers, and every time I called back to check on the status of the investigation they assured me that there was an investigation, but it took time. I’m sure the police really were investigating because one morning (~3:00am) I was awakened by a blaring stereo and looked out my front window to see a car with two men drive onto the street. I noticed as soon as the men drove in, the porch light next door went out (the neighbors kept it on continously) and it got very quiet. No one answered when one of the men knocked on the door. The men were studying and commented to each other on all the cars parked in front of the neighbors’ house and mine, apparently looking at the plate numbers. The drug dealers seemed to know what was going on (I suspect there was an informant within the police department). I called the police on them several times, but the police made me feel like I was being a nuisance. About half the people in the neighborhood were friendly with the drug dealers, but there was an elderly neighbor who used to call me because she was afraid and said that some elderly people on the next street were, too, because they saw what was going on. Once I saw a police officer go next door (I didn’t call them) and he was smiling at the person who answered and I saw a white envelope in his hand when he walked away. Once I even called the police because some people were setting off fireworks in the direction of a play area where children were playing. The responding officer was unconcerned and gave me a stern lecture. The drug dealers were intimidating me, too, so I wrote a letter to the chief of police and sent copies to the mayor and HUD (I live in a govenment housing complex). I received responses from the mayor and HUD. The mayor assured me that the situation was being investigated and there had been no evidence of criminal activity. HUD was very defensive and hostile. I finally reported everything to management where I live and was told I needed to develop a rapport with my neighbors. When I called CPS about the little boy, I sensed they were hesitant to get involved because of the police investigation. Although the drug dealers were eventually evicted (I think it was mainly because of what they were doing to intimidate me), I don’t know what became of the children or if there was further investigation of the parents. I came to the point where I avoided looking out my windows for fear of what I might see (those weren’t the last drug dealers, either). I was made to feel so guilty for reporting my neighbors that I just didn’t want to get involved again.
I think that’s why people are reluctant to report cases of child abuse and neglect. The agencies who are supposed to protect all of us, and especially the children, treat those who do get involved like we’re the criminals. Apparently, leaving a child unsupervised and neglecting his/her needs isn’t considered child neglect until something happens to the child; and beating a child is only considered discipline until the child ends up in a hospital or is killed. Then, it’s all over the news and everyone is up in arms, pointing a finger at someone else.
Sorry, but I had to vent.
Some interesting reading of MCSO Kyron Horman Investigation- Task Force Business Plan.
Below are some “compelling” points of ‘business plan’.
I have not included the “training” etc part of “plan”.
It appears to me they are keeping a very tight rein on communication & chain of information.
Newly assigned detectives from other agencies will be requested by MCSO to augment necessary work in partnership with remaining MCSO detective resources to provide }}}”a new perspective for this case.”{{{
… the task force will include continued participation by the MCSO Lead Detectives along with detectives from other agencies that will provide a case review and proceed with a }}}fresh perspective{{{ and determination to seek and achieve justice; the task force will allow for a new model for sharing resources among several agencies.
Tentatively, this task force shall be in place for a 120 day period beginning October 15, 2010.
Detectives shall be provided a phone/email list of detectives/command/district attorney’s involved in this case.
Communication of findings will be made in a written and/or verbal report to the Lead Detective and TF Sergeant as needed. Required weekly progress meetings will occur at the MCSO Hansen Building. The TF Sergeant shall provide a bi-monthly case progress briefing to Lieutenant Walls who will forward to the Operations Captain and the Chief Deputy, with presentation of progress to the Sheriff.
Task Force Expectations:
8. Task force members will keep case details in confidence and not disclose such details unless they have received authorization from MCSO or their supervisors.
9. Task force members will not provide public information to the media without permission from MCSO administration.
10.“Kyron Horman Case Update Report”: This report will be completed by the TF Sergeant and provided to the Investigations Lieutenant }}}by November 1, 2010.{{{
This report will be updated and provided to the Investigations Lieutenant on the first of every month and will be used to assess the overall progress of the investigation.
This report will include important investigative steps taken during operational periods, summary of resources utilized and areas of recommendation to further the investigation. The Investigations Lieutenant will review this report and include areas of recommended action and provide it to the Chief Deputy. The Chief Deputy will review this report and discuss details with the Sheriff and selected members.
Outcomes for this task force include }}}(to be completed “by February 1, 2011″):{{{
Determination and assessment of investigation direction
Aggressive pursuit of high priority leads
Assessment and recommendation of further investigative resources needed for investigation
Provide Sheriff with case review and recommended steps and/or strategies to further the investigation
Analysis of total resources allocated for this investigation Analysis of number of investigative hours completed on this investigation Assessment of cost associated with ongoing investigation.
At the end of the }}}120 day{{{ operational period, recommendations will be made regarding the }}}continued use of this task force{{{.
Currently the Task Force is working on }}}25 major tasks{{{ which have been identified and prioritized; all tasks are subject to change based on the needs of the investigation.
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Kyron_investigation_plan.pdf
@justice23 says:
October 15, 2010 at 5:00 pm
… “I do believe we could in fact, little by little, change the world … one child at a time. …”
Justice23, Thank you.
From your mouth to God’s ear.
Yes, strength in numbers, but how to use that strength for the required change ??? How, where to start…??
SouthernMom says:
October 15, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Who can live on $500/month?
She is not supposed to live on $500/month. That is to support her child, not to support her.
I don’t get it. When a child is missing isn’t time of the essence? 4 months? It’s like LE is taking steps and it will take 4 months. If there is one small glimmer of hope that this little boy is alive…then why not quadruple the task force and do in one month what they are planning to do in 4? Wasn’t the money given to LE to find Kyron? 25 major tasks? I say…find that kid first. What ever they find along the way is just cream on the milk.
God Bless Kyron his brothers, sister and all of us that love him.
I am “adding to “S says: October 15, 2010 @ 5:02 pm” & “S” says @ 7:45pm” :
Okay, this “information” needs to be put in the “NOT VETTED” pile~
Because on GLP -DDS is “stating” thru her “cousin” the “RS/LS”" IS “Anselmo Sanchez (-Sanchez)”.
Meaning the alias name “RS” is/ was used by “Anselmo Sanchez”.
“DDS/cousin” further state that TMH had said “RS/AS” had never SEEN Kyron.
IMOO the grain of salt in “these statements/comments” is HUGE & un-vetted.
____________________________________
“S says: October 15, 2010 @ 5:02 pm”
@Malty
“I think maybe there are 2 Rudys
I agree totally.
-AND-
“S says: October 15, 2010 at 7:45 pm”
Wow, could this be correct? Blink were you giving us a HUGE hint with the post of that Anselmo’s pic?
Diff says:
October 15, 2010 at 9:20 pm
Malty says?
one thing that bothers me is he just does not
look like the Mexican landscapers who work
around here
How do Mexican landscapers “look”? …This sounds a little racist to me, guys.
~~~
I know what Malty means … and no racist slur intended. Rudy (if the picture is the true Rudy Sanchez) looks buff and confident and doesn’t have a landscaper look about him. I too live in Oregon and the landscapers who work for me and who are Mexican as well as white, look like people who work in landscape.
@Justice23, Thank you.
From your mouth to God’s ear.
Yes, strength in numbers, but how to use that strength for the required change ??? How, where to start…??
—————————————–
…it’s already “started”…..
A “few” items requested in the filed TMH modify RO motion: *Note “capital letters” are mine.
>>>”Requesting Expedited Hearing Request”
#2. Awarding attorney fees & costs to Respondent (TMH) pursuant ORS 107.730 (5) IF THIS MATTER IS CONTESTED.
Items from the Declaration of Peter Bunch in support of motion to modify FAPA order:
1. I am ONE of the attorneys for Respondent in THIS MATTER…
3. It is undisputed that until, June 26, 2010, Respondent was Kiara’s primary caregiver.
4. On that date Petitioner obtained a FAPA … based on HEARSAY statements from the POLICE that there was probable cause to believe Respondent ALLEGEDLY tried to HIRE SOMEONE to MURDER Petitoner, & that Respondent WAS INVOLVED in the DISAPPEARANCE of Kyron Horman…
5. …following the recent court hearing regarding Respondent’s motion to abate the parties’ divorce proceedings, Petitioner appears to be at least open to considering the idea of supervised parenting time.
6. As the court is aware, because of the ongoing criminal investigations that ARE focused on Respondent …As a result of those issues, Respondent is not in a position at this time to testify on her own behalf in support of an AWARD of CUSTODY and parenting time to her.
8. … To the extent that Petitioner INSISTS on professional supervision, he SHOULD BEAR the COSTS, because Respondent is not employed and has NO INCOME or significant assets.
___________________
TMH & attorneyS [Yes, Bunch is declaring HE is ONE of attorneys in THIS matter] – are putting forth MFH as LE HEARSAY.
TMH & attorneys also mention that @ this time she is unable to testify on her behalf in support of AWARD of CUSTODY. [Just as TMH brought up “supervised’” visitation NOW they introduce “AWARD CUSTODY”.
JMHO … laying groundwork, “introducing issues” into court proceedings & motions/ declarations. A nice paper trail to bring to court attention ,,,”Your Honor, on ‘such n such’ date it was mentioned etc. WITHOUT OBJECTION of Petitioner &/ or HIS attorneys.
Remember, Respondent & attorneys called in court papers & court, “Petitioner’s frivolous filings” ?
Well now, Respondent & attorneys are & have been “USING” those “filings/ court appearances” to get THEIR AGENDA IN.
All JMHO …questioning.
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Terri+Horman+Petition.pdf
This all goes back to the same concerns I have had since I first saw the emergency ex parte order, and a comment from the judge, and Atty Rackner. Family Law and criminal investigation do not mix in the investigative phase. At least not on paper.
If Kyron were located or criminal charges filed in the mfh, I would have the exact same opinion. I do not know what sovereignty exceptions LE enjoys under OR statute, but I would not rule out if Terri Horman nor Rudy Sanchez are ever charged in the mfh plot, that TH cries parental alienation against MCSO. Did they have prob cause for the information being provided to Kaine, and of course for the necessary warrants, absolutely. Let’s face it, the cause of the RO was SEALED initially, but many folks heard the entire thing on their scanners.
I support LE, at times, to a fault I have been told. My first loyalty and responsibility is and forever will be is the victim, in this case, Kyron Horman. There are so many things they have done I am extremely impressed with. While I understand why they felt the sting was necessary, I think the fact that the DA is now running this case is evidence that it was a judgement error.
Overall, I feel obligated to say that I would rather have a LEA be overly aggressive than not.
B