Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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16.cd says:
October 15, 2010 at 3:25 pm
“I don’t think that Kiara’s visitation with her mother should depend on whether TMH says what she knows. Its not fair to Kiara who is only a baby and knows nothing of the situation that has been created by the adults in her life. I also think Kiara is a person and not some object to be withheld or granted as part of a technique to force her mother to tell what she knows, if indeed TMH has more to tell. JMO.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with you that Kiara is an innocent victim who is caught up in this legal mess. I have seen so many cases in which parents selfishly put their own desires before their children’s needs, and it always sickens me. The decision to modify the RO to permit TMH to have visitation with Kiara will be based on “the best interests of the child” standard. The judge will hear evidence from many witnesses and make a ruling that will appear on the surface to seem fair to to some, and baffling to others. None of us are privy to the evidence that will be presented, so, IMHO, we cannot possibly know what is in Kiara’s best interests at this point in time. I trust the judge and all involved will do their level best for this child.
****************
33.MockingbirdSings says:
October 15, 2010 at 8:05 pm
“There are DHS supervisors, private agency supervisors, and relative supervisors…If I were Terri’s lawyers, I would not want her alone with Kiara and I would want a trained, neutral party supervising – someone who could testify to her parenting skills if need be in the future.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MBS, I agree with the latter portion of your post regarding the neutral party. This seems to be the path of least resistance for Mr. Bunch to pursue in what could be a complicated and contentious hearing. This plan will save TMH and Kaine time and money in the long run, as neutral witnesses/experts will likely be needed in the custody portion of their divorce proceeding.
PS. A “copy” of TMH RO motion etc. was sent to TMH CRIMINAL attorney Houze.
( & KH’s attorney Rackner ) But no “other” attorney though Bunch declares he is ONE of the attorneys in the matter (divorce/RO).
So, as Blink has pointed out, how does it look that her (TMH) criminal attorney is standing next to her in divorce proceedings ?
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Terri+Horman+Petition.pdf
O/T but …drugs – heroin & meth involving a US Customs & Border Protection Service officer since 2006
@ PDX !
Arrest made by CCS Deputies.
Could this be “some things” we have uncovered ?
http://www.kgw.com/news/heroin-customs-winters-portland-airport-clackamas-105039059.html
Kyron task force will take fresh look at investigation
From Portland Tribune: “A 20-member task force has been formed to continue investigating the disappearance of Kyron Horman.”
-AND-
“The sheriff’s office is contributing 10 employees to the task force, including Staton, a chief deputy, an operations captain and three detectives. The district attorney’s office is dedicating five employees, including two chief deputies.”
“The FBI, the Oregon State Police, the Portland Police Bureau, the Washington County Sheriff’s Office, the Clackamas County Sheriff’s Office are each contributing one employee.”
http://portlandtribune.com/news/story_2nd.php?story_id=128715916439618800
___________________
This is MORE members of task force than has been reported up to this time and includes the number of DA’s staff.
@diff
I don’t look like a landscaper myself
don’t worry
Mexican are beautiful people
RE Q & A to AS-S 10/07 court date :
1.alwayssunday says:
October 15, 2010 at 6:57 am
Blink, any news on the result of Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez’s Oct 7 court hearing?
-AND
Idahogal says:
October 15, 2010 at 10:15 am
I’ll second that question…anything at all, Blink?
Guys, I answered this on October 7.
It was continued, and his lawyer is seeking a dismissal.
B
-AND-
Idahogal says:
October 15, 2010 at 11:25 am
I wasn’t sure what r/s meant….
-WITH-
38.Annie says:
October 7, 2010 at 3:18 pm
I wish someone was tweeting the Anselmo Sanchez-Sanchez hearing as well today. Blink, do you know if there was a hearing today or if there was another continuance?
Yep. Pending a motion to dismiss, he is r/s for 12/7/2010.
B
_____________________________
AS-S 10/07 court date:
“r/s” = re-schdule Dec 7th motion seeking to dismiss.
@riverpearl
Child support is NOT taxable income for the parent who RECEIVES the money. I am divorced, and I receive child support for 3 children. However, alimony IS taxable income.
Adding to my previous post and asking questions to “DDS RS?AS-S knowledge”:
Because on GLP -DDS is “stating” thru her “cousin” the “RS/LS”” IS “Anselmo Sanchez (-Sanchez)”.
Meaning the alias name “RS” is/ was used by “Anselmo Sanchez (- Sanchez)”.
Q; Is the “real” (non-alias) “RS” involved w/ MFH & abduction/ missing KH -or- ?
I believe Blink has “showed” (MC Jail records/ Fed hold etc) AS-S was in jail, June 4th & was in jail in May & for that matter since Feb 2010.
So if “alias RS/AS-S” is MFH guy & had a “special” release for June 26th “sting” -
What is the “real” RS role ?
Did TMH SEND sheriff to the “real RS” home & family in May ? -due to a “threat” -or ? by the “real RS” or by the “alias RS/AS-S” ?
Is the “real RS” the Kyron abductor because of “fall-out” to his own immediate family ?
These are some of my questions … JMHO
Okay, continuing w/ the “two RS’s”.
We know the “real RS” has spoken to GJ – yes ?
Can we also believe the “alias RS/AS-S” has also spoken to GJ – yes?
Could the “alias RS/AS-S” made a “deal” w/DA in MFH (& possible any info w/Kyron disappearance ?)
that “helps” w/ charges he is in jail for now ?
Could the “real RS” also have made “a deal” w/DA in Kyron’s disappearance (& any info in MFH ?) ?
__________
On another note, TMH wrote in a e-mail June 5th:
“I have a receipt showing I was checking out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away at 9:12am. I went to another FM looking for meds for Kitty they didn’t have at the first FM. Then I was trying to get Kitty to sleep in the truck for a few minutes, but no go, so off to the gym at 11:20. Out at 12:20. Home at 12:45. Kaine home at 2. Bus at 3:30. That was my day – they keep asking me. Now on my 5th interview with them …”
“…checking out at Fred Meyer 7 miles away” …
That IS the mileage FROM the farm DDS was working June 4th to FM#1 -AND- NOT mileage from Skyline to FM#1.
And, remember TMH e-mail IS June 5th BEFORE DDS “moved-in”.
“Kids saw him after I left. Teacher put him as absent at 10am. Someplace between 9-10 is when we think it happened.”
…”between 9-10 is when we think it happened.”
Again w/ the “we” & the lone “hour” which TMH claims she can prove.
…” I left the school at 9…”
TMH is stating she LEFT Skyline @ 9am & was 7 MILES AWAY @ FM#1~
Well, 7 miles from DDS/WW Farm takes ~12 mins to reach FM#1.
With ALL the questions w/DDS missing time, could DDS have been the “red-head” to get the “9:12am” receipt on her way to WW Farm on June 4th ?
Did TMH p/u receipt from DDS & or p/u DDS w/receipt ?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/100323934.html
JMHO … questioning.
MockingbirdSings says:
October 15, 2010 at 12:46 am
Blink – why do I get a cursor “hand” on “jan” on this post:
jan says:
October 14, 2010 at 9:57 pm
MockingbirdSings says:
October 14, 2010 at 6:56 pm
- Terri hired Rudy to do yard work.
I decided to click on “jan” and got this message from Google:
Oops! Internet Explorer could not find kyronhorman
__________
Blink,
Why are some names with underscore, as if a weblink, like Mockingbird points out here?
If I understand your question correctly, it is because some pur in a url address.
B
PS> “DDS/cousin” on GLP state TMH had showed her a “time-line” in 15 min increments & a large over-blown map of the streets/route she (TMH) had taken on June 4th. “DDS/cousin” states TMH e-mailed her the “time-line” which the DA/LE have.
Thru-out “DDS/cousin” GLP postings, is “DDS/cousin” claim that she (DDS) is not that “close of a friend” to TMH & that after TMH b-day party, that KH asked DDS to plan, she had not heard from TMH UNTIL June 22, when TMH called her (out of the blue) & asked her to “check-out” a ph# that TMH thought was KH “mistress”. DDS says she did not check on it & did not hear from TMH again until June 28th. The 28th she claims is when she met TMH parents & 2 days later they asked DDS to stay w/TMH.
DDS does “admit” to trying to “contact” TMH but got no response to any of her messages.
These are NOT MY statements of ANY FACTS-These are DDS/cousin postings on GLP.
{which has a disclaimer on every page that states, in part, not to believe anything you see posted].
JMHO … questioning.
Correction – DDS does admit to “trying” to contact TMH a few times between b-day party & June 22nd but got no response from TMH.
Excuse the omission of time period of “no contact.” between DDS & TMH.
Again, this is NOT my FACT -BUT- DDS/cousin on GLP postings.
enumclawrose says:
October 15, 2010 at 2:55 pm
justice23 says:
October 15, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I know CPS has a horrible reputation in many states, but I’m a CPS Investigator and where I work I can assure you that there is NO unwritten rule about taking 3 reports before we investigate. I cannot speak for other areas, but I do know that CPS is ultimately governed by the State and draws down Federal funding based on compliance with the State’s policy. The guidelines are strict for accepting an investigation or screening out a report. It is a situation I have to explain almost daily. A report is accepted based on the criteria in the policy. For example: A reporter may not believe a parent is properly caring for their child, or the child would be better off somewhere else, BUT WHY, is the big question. If the parent is a drug user, how is that affecting the child? Does the parent use all their money on drugs and not provide food, clothing, basic necessities? When the parent is high, is the child with another caretaker? Does the parent use drugs in front of the child? Does the child receive routine medical care? Is the home safe, (no exposed wiring, no evidence of insect or vermin infestation, running water, ability to prepare food, etc.) Unfortunately, CPS cannot dictate how adults live their lives…we are only allowed to assess the SAFETY of a child. Furthermore, we have to be able to PROVE it in a court of law if we determine the child isn’t safe. Judges don’t take kindly to removing children from their parents without solid evidence. IF we manage to gather enough evidence to take a child, the court then orders us to begin a reunification process to return the child to the home. We are required to work with the parents to help them clean up their act. Everyone is quick to blame CPS without realizing that we don’t make the laws, rules and policies that run these agencies and we are not the judges that determine whether or not these children stay in a home or get removed. If you want to help children, work to change out-dated policies that give parents supreme rights…but then you’ll have people screaming that CPS took their children without cause! Its a no win situation because “common sense” isn’t very common. I can also tell you that if a CPS report is made to LE they will simply pass it on to CPS so that is a waste of time and energy. I could go on about this all day because I actually love my job and I do everything I can to make sure my kids are safe and well cared for, but it is also a job that comes with deep frustrations with regard to people who know how to “beat” the system and people who don’t know how to make an effective CPS report.
Thank you for your service in this work, not an easy job.
B
As I was driving yesterday I was thinking of sweet Kyron. I do not know why but I was thinking about the Ebay purchases and the brown pants. When I was pregnant I bought clothes from the plus size stores as well as the maternity store. Could TH have purchased the pants to wear because she was pregnant? Could TH be pregnant? Could this have been what the altercation between Rudy and TH was about? Could this have caused Rudy’s wife to retaliate against TH. All speculation of course. Would LE wait until after the baby was born before they arrest TH?
Gotta go to work and have a wonderful day Blink and all…wanna a random, stupid thought? I’ll tell you anyhoo–I believe that the Ebay Red Squirred was found out to be someone else no? If it is our TH then maybe she bought the big pants and stuffed her belly to make mister landscaper think she was pregnant and that is when he supposedly lunged at her!!! She faked being pregger to him! Random dumb thought and I’m outty!
Correction to my post 10/15 @ 10:09pm -
child support is not taxable but alimony is taxable.
Excuse the mix up. Thanks
13.Investigator says:
October 16, 2010 at 8:34 am
I know CPS has a horrible reputation in many states, but I’m a CPS Investigator and where I work I can assure you that there is NO unwritten rule about taking 3 reports before we investigate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bless you for the work you do, Investigator.
Just thinking out loud again…what if TH approached AS and/or RS for the MFH 7-8 mos. ago, before AS was in jail? AS was placed on post probation supervision by ICE on Feb.19, 2010 and was admininstratevly arrested on Feb. 23, 2010, so where was he in Dec. 2009? Is he the reason for TH’s call to 911 in Dec. 2009? Further, what if TH was involved with AS in a sexual relationship? Obviously the RS that we have a photo of, courtesy of Blink, is not the same man as AS that is in custody at Sheridan. What if TH discussed a MFH on KH with AS and/or had a “relationship” with AS…and the MFH failed because he was apprehended and put in jail B4 he had the “opportunity” to carry out the MFH and possibly B4 he received any type of payment? Or just maybe TH really did try to cancel the MFH, but she did not realize whom she was dealing with and she pizzed off some very dangerous people in doing so? Is it possible that AS contacted an associate of his to carry out the MFH? It seems to me that AS might have some pretty dangerous associates, the kind that would do just about anything for a little cash. What other criminal activity could the associates of AS be involved in? Perhaps AS was released to community supervision on June 26th so he could appear at the Horman home with the MCSO and DEA to cooperate in the sting on the MFH. Perhaps this was part of AS’s deal with LE to dismiss or plea bargain on his prior charges. IMO, AS is a huge part of this horrible mess and if he has the ties that I suspect, he is damned no matter what he does, but he would rather take his chances here in the U.S. than go back to Mexico.
IMO, TH got her stupid self involved with a very dangerous felon, and therefore with his associates, vampires galore here. So when TH tried to cancel the MFH and sever ties with these vampires, they decided to take Ky as a warning, retribution, and revenge. Maybe RS lured Ky out of school and delivered him to someone because he was afraid for his life and the lives of his family. This puts RS in a position to testify and receive protection from LE.
Prison is not a safe place for someone that has rolled over on his associates, it is very possible that AS is in solitary for his own protection. It seems that EVERYTHING and EVERYONE involved in this mess has been strung out to sometime in December 2010 or January 2011, and IMO that is not a coincidence! Maybe AS is refusing to roll, and therefore LE has been hamstrung in their attempts to find out what happened to Ky. How many Hispanic felons might be locked up at Sheridan? IMO, a freaking boat load with ties to drug cartels and other criminal activity out of Mexico. We already know that AS is a rapist and sex offender, further he has been deported and was able to return to the U.S. without LE knowing about it for years. We also know that he was in custody on June 4th, therefore he did NOT take Ky, but perhaps someone he knows did, and/or RS was forced to deliver Ky to this person(s).
Here is a snip from Blink’s write up on Sept. 8th that I used for this post:
“Although records indicate that he was placed under post probation supervision by ICE on February 19, 2010, according to Mr. Sanchez-Sanchez Federal criminal docket after being “found in the US and apprehended” in August 2009” following a previous deportation in 2003, he was “administratively arrested” on February 23, 2010. A Federal Grand Jury’s subsequent indictment was issued on March 4 and he was immediately incarcerated.”
As just MOO on my part, maybe it fits into Mock’s runway theory…
Just thinking about Kyron. I don’t have any new info to add. He is just on my mind, as usual. Please God, bring Kyron home. Many, many prayers today as always. Love you little guy xxooxx
Oh, one other thing…WTH is DDS’s cousin doing on GLP site? Is DDS really giving him this info.? And if so, why? To clear her “good name”? IMO, if DDS is doing so, she is really stupid and I cannot imagime that her father, a volunteer LE officer, would be pleased. IMO her cousin has a few screws loose and is seeking some distorted sort of fame and limelight, and is also serving himself and his cousin up on a silver platter for subpoenas and further LE investigation. MOO.
@riverpearl “..she [DDS] had not heard from TMH UNTIL June 22, when TMH called her (out of the blue) & asked her to “check-out” a ph# that TMH thought was KH “mistress”.
A wild guess based on speculation .. could that be the number that called her from SI on the 4th?
I’d be willing to bet there is some sort of ‘code’ involved on Craigs List postings that has to do with ‘landscapers’.
Kaine uses a lot of ‘police speak’ IMO during his most recent phone interview. He is emotionally contained for a man with a missing child. Could just be a personality thing but my husband is a reserved individual as well and he would be a crumbled mess, anxious to get our child home if our son went missing, patience be damned.
There are many layers to this ordeal, criminal activity that was highly evolved and intricate. Coupled with the fact that Terri was losing her unemployment stipend, and Kaine was frustrated with the amount of money she was spending… how much is an adorable little boy worth?
Someone commented that Terri looks like she did in her DUI arrest photo. I agree and see a woman with multiple personalities. Her face gives her away and she is a deeply cold woman capable of harming a child, whether it be through actions or words or emotional manipulation.
I say this because while Kiara should see her mama it should only be with a licensed therapist or counselor present. IMO, the same holds true for James… the one person who is most innocent and most affected by what has happened. My heart breaks for James. I truly hope he is not with Terri, her ability to further harm him emotionally is a strong possibility.
This new task force will give a fresh perspective on all the information, evidence, and theories. Sometimes investigators can be too close to their findings to see the big picture and I believe we’ll see closure in the next four months. My hunch is the witness they’ve been searching for will be found… he or she is a witness only, probably fearing for his/her life, but knows exactly what happened. I don’t see this person just coming forward but ‘found’ and and will leak the information that will be pertinent to the forthcoming arrests.
Kyron was put on a boat with white vinyl seats on the mainland side of the SI bridge. The person who brought him to the boat handed him off to a man, likely a gray haired caucasion, operating the boat. This man had a worn brown leather wallet filled with miscellaneous papers in the billfold/paper money part. He pulled a ticket of some sort out of the wallet and gave it to the person handing Kyron off OR he took the ticket from the man handing Ky off. Kyron was deeply frightened. It was likely during the night that this took place.
I admittedly could be wrong but the vision was strong.
I believe Staton when he says we’re closer now than ever to solving this case. I don’t think for one second that this will go unsolved.
Prayers for the investigators, guiding them toward Kyron, leading them toward the evidence and witnesses that will bring closure for Desiree and all those who want this gentle little boy to be found.
All MOOOO…..
And blessings to all the posters here keeping Kyron close to your hearts. I believe strongly in the power of prayer and good intentions and there is a lot of that on Blink’s site.
@Ode Pregnant with whose baby? Perish the thought.
Brian says:
October 15, 2010 at 11:42 pm
SouthernMom says:
October 15, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Who can live on $500/month?
She is not supposed to live on $500/month. That is to support her child, not to support her.
———
This is true – but you do not pay for separate apartments, separate meals (after baby food maybe), separate transportation, etc. In any event, in Oregon there is a formula now for child support to be determined based on the number of nights a child spends with each parent and the income of each parent using a percentage of the total estimated expenses, plus college, half of extra medical usually, etc.
When the support for James was determined, I don’t know that the formula would have been in effect so it was probably the judge’s opinion of whatever the lawyers presented. Kiara’s support would be determined by the current formula. An unemployed parent’s contribution is based on minimum wage I believe, figuring that someone could at least get a fast food job to support their child.
If anyone wants to know more:
http://dcs.state.or.us/forms/csf020910.pdf
https://justice.oregon.gov/guidelines/pdf/instructions.pdf
It is a lot more complicated than it used to be, but if a parent becomes angry at the amount of support ordered or received, at least the process is determined by the state, not the other parent or their “evil” lawyer, and the state has attempted to be fair. If you look at this before you decide to divorce, it is often a “rude awakening” to some facts of life.
@Lyla
if they had any evidence against TH she would have been arrested and she hasn’t….
——————————–
Not necessarily. TH has hired one of the best (and most expensive) criminal attorneys in the state. Therefore, LE and the DA know they must have all their ducks firmly in a row before charging Terri with any crime(s). Once an arrest is made, the clock starts ticking, so LE/DA must take their time to make the strongest case possible beforehand.
Having said that, whether LE plans to arrest TH – and, if so, on what charge(s) – remains to be seen.
Investigator says:
October 16, 2010 at 8:34 am
Thank you for your service in this work, not an easy job.
B
——————
I thank you also, for your comments and your work. I would like to add that the public in general, in Oregon and probaby everywhere else, does not support with tax dollars the number of workers needed to cover the work that needs to be done.
I can also add that in my experience working in a high school, I reported child abuse all too often, however if the child was over 12 and not pregnant, disabled or mentally challenged, we would still receive a response, but were often told that resources were very limited because low budgets meant the line had to be drawn somewhere. Perhaps with increased focus on the treatment of gay students, human trafficking and other teen issues, this will change. I hope.
Forgive me if I missed this previously, but I just looked up ASs on VINE and BOP while I was looking at Idahogal’s post…
He’s not listed in Sheridan anymore? He shows on community supervision since the end of August and now shows a scheduled release date. I see no mention of the USM or USI holds.
Offender Name: ANSELMO SANCHEZSANCHEZ
Offender ID:13924406
Date of Birth:01/27/1982
Age:28
Custody Status:Community Supervision
Scheduled Release Date:02/18/2015
Reason:Community Supervision – Transfer
Date:08/26/2010
That info is on Oregon VINE, BOP doesn’t show him at all now. I hope I have made an error and if I have, you’ll all forgive.
jan says:
October 16, 2010 at 4:14 am
MockingbirdSings says:
October 15, 2010 at 12:46 am
If I understand your question correctly, it is because some pur in a url address.
B
Blink,
Thanks for your response.
I don’t understand “some pur in url address”.
It’s curious:
Karey, loreli and a few others also have an underline in their names, but not Mockingbird, Malty or most.
When information filled in the first time under “Leave a comment,” there was no request in autofill box “my name (required)” to be jan with underline.
Should I change my name used here or maybe try different email information? Thanks
MockingbirdSings says: October 15, 2010 at 1:11 am
and
Amy’s Sister says: October 16, 2010 at 1:18 pm
I’d be willing to bet there is some sort of ‘code’ involved on Craigs List postings that has to do with ‘landscapers’.
@jan – Craigslist was a good concept, but, unfortunately, it attracts people with both good and bad intentions, not to mention crazy ideas…Mockingbird,
If TH is in the “crosshairs,” where/when did she bring in vampires &/or creepy traffickers-of-whatever that are mixed up in the complications of this case?
How did bad people land in little innocent, idyllic Oregon Skyline community — via online trollers (like crazy ideas on website mentioned above), landscapers, affairs, body-builder types or a side business going on?
Amy’s sister,
Your theory could be true, imo
On another note:
Billboards went up so quickly in Russian and Spanish, why these languages — Could something be going on in bi-lingual communities and then out of the country. Spanish obvious given RS and friends mentioned. Any thoughts on why Russian?
This case is disturbing.
@27.evie says:
October 16, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Forgive me if I missed this previously, but I just looked up ASs on VINE and BOP while I was looking at Idahogal’s post…
He’s not listed in Sheridan anymore? He shows on community supervision since the end of August and now shows a scheduled release date. I see no mention of the USM or USI holds.
Offender Name: ANSELMO SANCHEZSANCHEZ
Offender ID:13924406
Date of Birth:01/27/1982
Age:28
Custody Status:Community Supervision
Scheduled Release Date:02/18/2015
Reason:Community Supervision – Transfer
Date:08/26/2010
———————————-
It says Release Dage: unknown
http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingMoreList=false&FirstName=anselmo&Middle=&LastName=sanchez-sanchez&Race=W&Sex=M&Age=28&x=71&y=18
Release DATE..sorry.
Jan – with all due respect – this does ot sound like an “innocent community” in Oregon to me. I don’t want to offecnd anyone but I don’t think I would want to raise a family there. Granted, my city in Kentucky is getting worse by the day. There are shootings nearly every night and we are on “The First 48 on A&E almost weekly. My stepdaughter of 10 years was murdered by her husband August 9th of this year. It has been tough. I didn’t mean to offend anyone here with my comments about Portland. I appreciate every poster here and all of the hard work the are doing so please, I’m sorry if I offended anyone. Hell, my town is no better. Really, none of us knows what goes on behind closed doors. People you would never suspect have their hands in all kinds of nasty little things. I won’t make this a long post because I really can’t put into words anymore the disgust, pain and grief I feel regarding little Kyron and this case. The picture of him holding up the little packet of sunflower seeds just tears me up. Such a happy boy, curious and anxious to learn about something new and beautiful. Just as he is… beautiful. Let’s all pray for Kyron tonight. xxoo to Kyron, sweet boy.
Just a note to add – My stepdaughter had an EPO out on her husband. He missed a court date for a wanton endangerment charge regarding her and had 2 outstanding warrants on him at the time of her murder. He stabbed her in a motel room (slit her throat) and left her to bleed out for hours. My husband and I didn’t even know she had gone back to him. We had been trying to reach her for two weeks. She was 21 with a 2 year old son. He is bi-polar and we are sure his two public defenders will use this in his defense. He has been charged with capital murder. (Carries the death penalty. possibly). Three hours after it happened, my husband and I were in the detective’s office and “The First 48″ was there filming us. (We had to sign consent forms of course). I’m sure it will air after there is a trial. Anyway, I don’t even know why I told all of you this. Guess I just needed a stress reliever. Goodnight to you all and stay safe.
27.evie says:
October 16, 2010 at 4:34 pm
@evie- I still see AS-S at Sheridan with release date unknown on BOP site, but can’t find him on VINE.
The thought that he is out scares me a lot…how is that possible?
On that note, I’m still really confused about the motion to dismiss for him. If he is supposed to be in prison until 2015, and given his past crimes and re-entering the U.S. illegally…what is the deal? I know I’m missing something here, if anyone can enlighten me I would appreciate it. The very idea that he might be released this year really upsets me.
So, I guess no takers on my theory about him and TH…oh well, I’ll just keep thinking. BTW, if TH is pregnant then that would add a whole new “soap opera” to this sordid mess. I cannot even imagine!
I cried for Ky again today, I guess the hurt and sorrow will never go away…time doesn’t heal some things. It is so hard for me to accept that all this time has passed and still he is missing.
Thanks again to all for everything you are doing here.
@Jan says:
Blink,
Thanks for your response.
I don’t understand “some pur in url address”.
‘PUR’ was typo – should be ‘put’
I will try to explain this as I understand it…someone correct me if I am wrong on this.
There is an optional field under the email address field when you sign up or register. If you put in an “url” such as a facebook or twitter address or if you accidentally put in any character at all..your name will be underlined and if you click on it, it will take you to the linked address or give you and error message if the url address is not valid.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
@ Ode says:
October 16, 2010 at 9:10 am
I have wondered that too. TH does look pregnant in this pic from KGW news on Oct. 8. Her jacket has flapped away from her body as she walks, and it looks like a pregnant belly to me. Now, that wouldn’t necessarily mean anything, but would just add another layer to all the other complicated layers in this case. What do you guys think about this photo?
http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman-portland-terri-visitation-kaine-divorce-105032179.html
________________________________________
The idea of TH being pregnant has been bandied about by sleuthers, reporters, etc., and it’s not out of the realm of possibility by any means. I found it very interesting in the one video of TH exiting the courthouse, when the reporter started shouting “are you pregnant Terri”. The reporters and media people actually see TH close up-we don’t. They have a real chance to see body changes that would make them suspect pregnancy.
http://interceder.net/dashboard/terri-horman
_____________________________________________
Hard to say who the father could be, but if she did have an affair with RS(or whoever), and then an alleged breakup(911 call) in May of 2010, she could be at least 6 months along. All JMO of course. Would being pregnant make LE more amenable to her being under house arrest, instead of in jail? Would it work in her favor for prolonging the divorce case, at least until the hypothetical baby was born. Which to me, since she looks about six months pregnant, would make a due date of January 2011! Interesting….
We see TH only very briefly. She is always wearing dark colored (all one color) clothes. Age old trick of covering up weight gain, pregnancy, etc. The rest of her looks thin, but she could very easily disguise the fact (at least, for a while), that she is pregnant, by her clothing.
I also wonder, if Kaine is starting to feel sorry for her (especially if she IS pregnant and he thinks it might be his baby), and that is why he sounds more accepting of her getting supervised visitation with Kiara.
Also, if TH was pregnant, could she have tried to entice MC into “being” with her so she could claim him as the father? Would all the sexting, etc., be her way of trying to accomplish that goal? After all, she knew she was suspected in a major crime, her husband was about to file for divorce-I’m sure she probably saw that coming ahead of time, she (supposedly) had no money or way to make any income. She was likely hoping to find a guy to be the “father” of this child, knowing she was running out of options. It would make some sense of the sexting, which we have all had a difficult time with, so soon after Kyron’s disappearance. Not making any excuses for TH, just trying to wrap my head around certain things. JMO, potential theories, of course.
I am just so sorry that Kyron got caught up in such an effed up situation. Still always thinking positive thoughts for you little guy.
I’ve lurked on this site since Kyron disappeared in June, and have commented a few times. I’m moved to weigh in now because we’re reading several posts from CPS case workers, who have one of the toughest jobs a therapist or social worker can have. Most of us say no to this kind of work. CPS workers are really out in the trenches and aren’t using their licenses to do psychotherapy with the “worried wealthy”, which is where the money’s at (although the money’s proportional – not $$$ like criminal defense lawyers!). I have such respect for childrens’ case workers, I felt compelled to speak up. I’m a psychotherapist, and for several years I worked with adult survivors of child abuse in a hospital setting. I can say without reservation that sometimes parents do heinous things to children. Really horrid things. Really, truly. It gave me nightmares and I had to go to therapy to deal with it. It’s so hard to take this in that I think on the whole we go into mass denial. There seems to be a belief on this site that Terri wasn’t actually culpable for Kyron’s disappearance, she just knew people or pissed off people who did whatever they did to him. I have thought from the beginning that Terri “disappeared” Kyron, either with or without help. I have written about her personality disorders and her steroid use and those things combined make her absolutely capable of committing the unthinkable. I have re-watched the initial pressers with the sound off and her rapid blinking and odd body language is so off-the-charts guilty looking that I think any professional profiler would say we need to look no further. It goes without saying that this is moo, but I have heard stories that you wouldn’t believe about fathers and mothers who were not just cruelto their children, but were cruel for years on end. My survivors were scared and brave to seek treatment because it meant reliving their horrific experiences. I guess the bottom line for me is that I have thought from the beginning that Terri is guilty guilty guilty, either with or without help from some asshole she was boinking. The posters on this site are awesome and of course, Blink, thanks for creating this forum which allows so many of us to focus on making the world a safer place for all children.
I was surprised to hear DY & KH were @ the Roloff Farm Pumpkin Patch.
Yes, the family farm of “Little People, Big World TLC Show”.
Video @ link too: http://www.kgw.com/news/Kyrons-parents-raise-search-funds-at-Roloff-pumpkin-patch-105111144.html
I know Matt (Roloff) had spoken about doing a fundraiser when he was @ the Godfather Pizza fundraiser.
Today, “Amy and Matt Roloff, the stars of the reality show, “Little People, Big World,” said they wanted the Roloff Farm to help Kyron’s family.”
“We knew that we would have a busy pumpkin season and we wanted to do what we could to continue to get that word out,” said Matt Roloff.”
So, “Amid pumpkins and petting zoos, there was a booth selling Kyron t-shirts, dog tags and posters. There was also a booth for families to create child identification kits.”
“He loves little pumpkins,” said Desiree. “Kyron loves to come and pick out just the right pumpkin, just the right size. So we got one for him today and we’re going to go put it out at the Wall of Hope.”
PS> Yes, there were people @ Roloff Farm Pumpkin Patch who said they had NOT heard about Kyron !
How is THAT possible ?
I have to say that lately I have been thinking about Kaine. This poor guy is in a living hell. I can not even begin to imagine the pain he must be in. Everyone is so supportive of DY, including myself. It is easy to be sympathetic to a woman, not so easy with a man. I do not think he knew what was happening. He has lost his first child, his son. He has lost his wife. He has had a possible MFH plan on his life. For some reason I am starting to feel very protective towards Kaine. Everyone is hoping DY gets emotional help. I do not hear that said for Kaine. Not to ramble on, but I am holding a special place in my heart for Kyron’s father tonight. I just felt I needed to voice this. God bless you Kaine.
@Idahogal said “If he is supposed to be in prison until 2015″
Sounds like probation to me (Community Supervision). Since August until 2015. Guess he is on the loose.
@Idahogal, interesting theory. Might also explain somebody’s wife/children moving.
SouthernMom says:
October 16, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Southern Mom,
All seems so simple and obvious when you explain it.
THANKS!
Terri seems like someone who only gets pregnant if and when she plans it out. She controls the show. If, on the off chance she were pg, a simple dna test would determine the paternity. I’m sure Kaine would insist on that, given all that’s gone on.
Lorelei–I’m so sorry you have lost your precious daughter! I can’t imagine how bad your(hubby too)heart is breaking! I’m sure you’ve spent many, many nights pacing the floor with worry and grief over her being with that evil person. I don’t know what kept her going back, fear of him, insecurity, thought she could fix him and just loved him but I’m so sorry she couldn’t find her way out. Sometimes you just can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. She was too young. Do you have her child? God Bless you all. I hope the bas***d burns in hell!
3. loreli48 says:
October 16, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Oh, what a tragic situation. You and your family are in my prayers, I’m so sorry for all your family has been through and have yet to face.
The picture of Kyron with the sunflower seeds is the one that hurts me the most to look at. That little trusting face, his little hands, I just can’t look at it without crying. Be found soon sweet boy.
Idahogal, Your first post is where I, too am leaning… just how connected is “real RS” vs “alias RS/AS-S” ?
Could the “real RS” have a (7yr?) son born in US w/ valid SS# & the “illegal” “real RS” uses ? -BUT- could that fact, legal child w/ name & SS#, be the reason “alias RS/AS-S” used the name to begin with ? The “clean name w/SS#” would get a person some walking around freedom if stopped by LE, yes ? JMHO
-AND 2nd remarks-
Yup, “DDS/cousin” has been on & off “posting” on GLP. “DDS/Cousin” has said they are “interviews of Q/A sessions” w/DDS. “Cousin” claims “DDS” reads up (thread? internet? who knows) & “tells him” what to say.
Yes, it has always seemed since the first GLP thread w/”DDS/cousin” that this was getting out the what a “good person DDS is”…”just helping out a friend who has been wrongly accused”. “DDS/cousin” pick the posters & the questions to answer.
“Cousin” claims the thread is “his book” & will “help in DDS lawsuit against DA/ LE etc.” “Cousin” likes to “incite” posters, in what appears IMO to “help both his book & DDS lawsuit”.
“Cousin” likes to see posters “constantly tell him they believe him -or- ask about him, his kids etc” EVEN when HE is NOT posting. He “lurks” a lot & pops in w/”DDS/cousin” wisdom.
Your statement; “IMO her cousin has a few screws loose and is seeking some distorted sort of fame and limelight, and is also serving himself and his cousin up on a silver platter for subpoenas and further LE investigation. MOO.” is totally accurate. The “cousin” truly appears to want the media & LE to “come find him”. he has spoke of “getting a haircut & rushing home to meet media but alas NO one was there”.
Both “DDS/ & cousin” just cannot seem to stay out of Kyron’s case. It also appears that they are “trying to get facts, time-lines, names etc.”
Truly, is seems they are trying to muddy the waters. They even relay how “DDS” would say “stuff on the phone in hopes LE was listening” & “they would laugh about the ‘made-up’ stuff”.
All JMHO … remaining hopeful for Kyron.
______________________________
Idahogal says:
October 16, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Just thinking out loud again…what if TH approached AS and/or RS for the MFH 7-8 mos. ago, before AS was in jail?
-AND-
Idahogal says:
October 16, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Oh, one other thing…WTH is DDS’s cousin doing on GLP site? Is DDS really giving him this info.? And if so, why? To clear her “good name”? IMO, if DDS is doing so, she is really stupid and I cannot imagime that her father, a volunteer LE officer, would be pleased. IMO her cousin has a few screws loose and is seeking some distorted sort of fame and limelight, and is also serving himself and his cousin up on a silver platter for subpoenas and further LE investigation. MOO.
It seems to me if someone had it in for Terri, they would have honed in on taking Kiara…Terri would be screaming to LE from the get go, i.e. 8:45 AM on 6/4 to find the perp if it were her daughter who went missing on June 4th especially if she left her in the truck unattended. She either had Kiara in the truck with her that day and someone else was in the truck watching Kiara while Terri was with Kyron in the school. The revenge seems to have been directed at Kaine and his son. And who else other than Terri wanted revenge against Kaine? Really, who else?
@loreli48
The Skyline community is an idyllic community, Mayberry RFD, REALLY. That’s part of the reason this is so creepy, this is the place it would never happen. Everyone knows everyone, very solid good people. It’s an example of how one person can upset the whole applecart. This could have happened in anyone’s backyard under the same conditions, one Mother who was having some kind of issues. A strong reason why we must all look out for one another. Something way out of the ordinary happened here. Does anyone remember ever seeing a bill board in Russian or Spanish here in Portland before? I have not, something very different happened here, probably very scary too by the way the the sheriff office has responded.
Neighbor~ Now that IS the question!
The “DDS/cousin” answer/remark (more than once) paraphrase: “Oh, DD did NOT call.. DD did NOT check out the number… TMH NEVER called DDS BACK to find out … DD has NO clue who’s # … DD does NOT have the # NOW…”
Added note, “DDS/cousin” state LE “took DDS computer, her “regular” phone & bat phone ( & yes, that is how DDS/cousin called the ‘b-phone’), cameras (2 I think) & iPod” [IIRC this is the whole list]
& “all of it was returned -just shy of 90-day hold”.
As always, JMHO.
_________________________
neighbor says:
October 16, 2010 at 12:36 pm
@riverpearl “..she [DDS] had not heard from TMH UNTIL June 22, when TMH called her (out of the blue) & asked her to “check-out” a ph# that TMH thought was KH “mistress”.
A wild guess based on speculation .. could that be the number that called her from SI on the 4th?
@Idahogal & lyla:
I think it was a ‘duh’ moment, although the plot has still thickened, WRT Anselmo Sanchez Sanchez.
I searched him on VINE without the hyphen, just as it appears below.
SANCHEZSANCHEZ, ANSELMO 01/27/1982 28 Community Supervision Community Supervision – Transfer Oregon Dept of Corrections
I missed him on BOP because I searched without the hyphen. He is there, showing at Sheridan, as Sanchez-Sanchez. The only reason I’m half sure it’s the same person is the birth date data.
Idahogal, I’m still musing over your other thoughts. Hard for me to see an affair w/TH & AS-S (mug shot).