Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 11:57 pm
Panda 10-21 8:27pm
I have thought about exactly what you wrote, that TH set up RS to take the fall. And then there is this third person. Do you think this person is from the TH or RS side of the fence?
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It was a business transaction and RS was not involved. It could be that it was done in a way that TH doesn’t even know who it was. I don’t know how the money would have been transferred but if there was a transaction, there has to be some sort of trail.
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justice23 says:
October 21, 2010 at 10:37 pm
@justice — of those two ships, when I go on the .mil site to research them, one of them crashes my computer, the other had a change of command on July 25. Please ask your husband if it is normal to have a change of command after 21 months, just a few days before the end of a deployment.
October 21, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Just wondering aloud here…If the coat, backpack and project were all at the school after Kyron disappeared, why is only 1 of those 3 items being held as evidence? What could that mean?
RE; enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Annals 10-21 2:32pm
I can see how KH coming home early could change the staged ransom plans. Do you think RS conspired with TH to extort money from KH?
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Enumclawrose; I’m not sure. I just can’t get it out of my head that once the school was contacted, a ransom plot (which Terri was a party to) unraveled. In other words, Terri was confident that she could convince Kaine to comply with the kidnappers demands without the involvment of LE “for the safety of Kyron”. But the note/glasses arrived after all hell broke loose. This is my own nagging thought, only. Was Rudy still involved with Terri then? Hard to imagine.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
melissab says:
October 21, 2010 at 4:37 pm
Annals…wasn’t it DY who said in the interview that after she got off work June 4 she would meet whomever was bringing Kyron, I think it was gonna be TH and KH, also she switched out her other son at the same time. Am I right or wrong guys?
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Melissab; I think so. Don’t have a link for it. I’ve been listening to old interviews, but haven’t yet found the specific quote where Kaine states that he was unaware that the weekend starting on June 4th was Desiree’s weekend with Kyron. Nor could I find Desiree specifically saying she expected to go get Kyron that night, but I’m pretty sure that was her expectation. I am also interested in finding a quote of Desiree talking about the emails she and Terri exchanged that day.
My bad — Change of command was Aug 25.
USS Sampson (DDG 102) held a change of command ceremony in San Diego Aug. 25.
@27.enumclawrose says:
October 21, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Lyla 10-21 12:47pm
I would love familythx to read the article about the mayor and give her analysis.
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Well, this story is even more than bizzare…tweeting alright..HA!
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/05/second_mayor_sam_adams_acciden.html
evie says:
October 21, 2010 at 12:30 pm
If LE were trying to make an ID of someone and they had no idea of that person’s identity, wouldn’t they broadcast those pics/fliers to as many as possible (ala Mayor Sam drawing attention to one photo)?
If LE did not do that, who would they be looking for without knowing their identity already?
@evie- These fliers were pounced on by the media and subsequently were plastered all over the news and internet. Only a person hiding under a rock would have missed them, IMO Joe Average in the state of Oregon saw the fliers.
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@beejay- You referenced someone with a military connection. I only want to know about the one person that we cannot name anymore. I can’t find anything, give me a clue or link, please. TIA.
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There has been a lot of discussion as to whether Ky was supposed to be with DY and TY that weekend, and did TH and KH know this. Yes, Ky was supposed to go fishing with TY on Sat. June 5th, TH and/or KH were to meet DY and TY in Eugene to send Ky home with DY, and yes, KH and TH both knew this.
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puzzled says:
October 21, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Rosey .. I think this has been one of the prevailing theories, at least on the blogs, but take TH out of the equation and these questions fall away. There is still yet a different theory out there that involves multi agencies, someone under investigation prior to June 4th and the capability to disappear a small child so that there is no trace of where he is.
A bored unsatisfied rural housewife is not this person.
@puzzled- Exactly! Are you thinking of connections South of the border?
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My question for today: When LE says “We know things we wish we didn’t”, could this pertain to person(s) involved in state programs established to protect children? Wouldn’t that upset LE immensley?
24.Kimberly says:
October 21, 2010 at 11:24 pm
Blink,
This isn’t the Jaime Estrada we know of is it? I cannot find any info on the web to validate or negate this.
Public Works Director Jaime Estrada said the city has the $500 it needs to do the repairs and had the work scheduled for this week. However, he encouraged the boys to continue with the fundraising idea to start a reserve fund for future repairs or possibly even new equipment.
http://www.woodburnindependent.com/news/2010/August/14/Local.News/hubbard.to.fix.skate.park/news.aspx
http://www.woodburn-or.gov/publicworks/forms/5thStreet_WoodburnCACMeeting02summaryout.pdf
****************************************************************
Ok only suspicion here on my part with my mind a wondering to my above post, but I thought, what if there IS a connection between SAdams and Estrada. So I googled SA with JE and up popped the multnomah county foreclosure list.
multnomahforeclosures.com/NODS/061509/Mult_061209_Labels.doc
Mayor Sam Adams has had several issues with payments of his house(s), This one in particular.
The multnomah county forclosure list, held a surprise for me as I was looking it over! Has a listing for Jaime L Estrada, (only assuming the L may be used for Lopez as an aka/alias) (MOO)
However; i mapped the distance between the two addys and found them to be less than 5 miles of each other. Guess where they are?
Yip, St Johns, .
For those of you that don’t know pdx very well, St. Johns is considered North Portland, it ties itself in with Sauvie Island, Swan Island, and etc.
There are two routes to St Johns, one is the “St Johns bridge, off of hwy 30, I-5 north. Most choose hwy 30.
I have the links listed below for all to see on the google map.
Beejay, Idahogal, and others, any helpful sleuthing you may have would clear up some questions circling me mind. lol
SA addy:
2121 N. McCLELLAN STREET
97217
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&expIds=25657,26637,26992,27026,27031,27032,27035,27039,27042,27095,27178&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=2121+N+MCCLELLAN,+97217&cp=23&rlz=1R2ADRA_enUS352&wrapid=tljp1287760713661044&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=2121+N+McClellan+St,+Portland,+OR+97217&gl=us&ei=mqvBTKeLPIq8sAP13eDfCw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA
JLE ADDY
10252 N POLK AVE
97203
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
@ alwayssunday says:
October 22, 2010 at 10:59 am
Just wondering aloud here…If the coat, backpack and project were all at the school after Kyron disappeared, why is only 1 of those 3 items being held as evidence? What could that mean?
_______________________
Maybe only the project is of interest (TH took photos of it; other people were in photos; etc). Coat & backpack presence could be simply in LE notes as to their location/time; they were left at school so DNA would be an issue.
@puzzled:
“I understand, I really do understand why the initial focus was on TH .. So why isn’t the obvious still true.. or is it? What has changed .. and why is Kyron still missing?”
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I believe LE has dotted the “i’s and crossed the “t’s” regarding TH’s involvement. At this point in time I believe the focus has changed to the person(s) Ky was handed off to. Terri doesn’t know where Ky is..someone other than her does. moo.
Lyla: thanks for the link about Sam Adams. I read the article and what really struck me as odd was that Adams wasn’t given breathalyzer or blood test. That is out of the ordinary if there is even the remotest suspicion of DUI. All of his behavior that people joke about being off the wall or outrageous, or whatever adjectives they use to describe his unprofessional behavior has always struck me as fueled by alcohol. I think his tweet about the mystery man at SF was just inappropriately intrusive and probably has no value to the investigation. Lyla, are you thinking the same thing and that’s why you wanted my opinion? I would say, only his blood alcohol level tells for sure, but he certainly acts alcoholic. It’s really odd not to test him particularly if people smell alcohol on him. What’s up with that?
Proof that a note and glasses were delivered to the Hormans…where is that link? THANKS!
Beejay…I don’t know if you ever saw my post asking you or another cherished intel gatherer here to check on spouses/partners/roommates/ext. fam that may live with any teacher/tech/staff/maint. employee of Skyline. I have not seen any of them looked at yet. Any of those people intertwined with the Skyline staff would not be out of place at the school either. Just an example, my baby’s 3rd grade teacher took in her brother and his two girls who did not attend same school but he would borrow her car lots and come by and get her key or drop off his girls after school but before she left so he could go to work. I’ve met several husbands, Moms of employees of his school all of which I would think nothing of them being there. Just a thought and maybe I missed that you did this before.
@enumclawrose said “Did the witness ID her at both times, or perhaps was DDS the redhead that showed up at 2 am? Maybe LE is aware of the fact that TH was supposed to meet someone on that road at 2 am” and
Agree, *eye* witnesses may not be as reliable as it sounds. I referred to a person that lives on that street (not JK). I took it serious, because I assumed that JK was able to ID her as well. IIRC a plumpy (sorry!) redhead in a white truck as ID’ed for the 3pm sighting. If LE had shown both TMH and DDS, who knows who would be picked. During the second sighting JK (?) sent the dogs to the truck. This side of town does not have street signs (or pavement). I doubt anybody saw the face of the person in the truck at 2am.
Let me throw in another tidbit that I mentioned earlier: There was a K9 hit on the railroad tracks behind that street. Many events may have triggered that. Maybe Ky played there weeks earlier, or very maybe he disappeared along those tracks, or even more unlikely he was there during the sightings. The reason I bring this up is because there was intense searching there and near the lumber mill.
@enumclawrose said “LE is thinking that she already was acting disconnected and now the abductor is requesting she bring the ransom.”
Yes this might have been a good spot given that there is an alternate route downhill over R/R tracks to Hwy 30 or under the road to the house boats.
Given that the missing child message went out to PPS parents on Friday around 6:30pm, an abductor could easily know that LE is involved, and would think twice before showing up there. Also there must have been intense LE activity that Fri night around the school.
@MelissaB….TY was supposed to take Kyron fishing that weekend. Seems to me everybody BUT KH knew Kyron was supposed to go to his mom’s that weekend.
http://www.ktvl.com/articles/medford-1196047-kyron-horman.html
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
@lyla says:
October 22, 2010 at 11:31 am
_________________________
About that link: his fly was open at the time of the wreck? I’m confused–did he rear-end the guy or was it a T-bone?
How embarrassing for everyone, including the city.
*****************
So, Ky’s Science Fair photo man that the mayor tweeted about–not the one who looks like the new Skyline janitor. The other, bearded one. White guy. Isn’t he the Sauvie Island, ex-LEO who’s related to the Fuhrer/Pumalas? If so, no one found him of interest, I take it.
@neighbor – Interesting that JK’s neighbor ID’d TH as the one in the truck. I would assume that was from the 3:00 sighting because unless they got up right next to the car or an interior light was on, I think the 2am sighting would be too hard to ID someone or even ID a gender.
@evie – This sticks out with me because it is just too coincidental to have another incident involving a white p/u going down in the same area on the same day. Due to the timelines heard from press conferences, etc. I have also felt that it was likely DDS in the truck or another female we have not yet been able to identify. I could now see though that TH could have left the house when KH got home to run a quick “errand.” I can see KH leaving this out in his interviews at LE request.
Another question I have with the JK sighting is did they know they were spotted at the 3pm idling? If they know that they were spotted at the 3pm sighting by neighbors, would they go back to the same spot later?
One other interesting note is that JK’s comment states that at 2 am a “similar” p/u was spotted. Doesn’t necessarily say it was the same one.
Thinking about Kyron, wishing he was home. Many prayers today for the little guy. Love you Kyron!!
Oops…Third paragraph of last comment should say “Why” would they go back to the same spot later?
lyla 10-22 11:31 am
O M G !!! FAMILYTHX where are you and what do you make of the last two articles Lyla has posted on the mayor’s behavior. IMO, the mayor always has on device or another in his hand.
justice23 says:
October 21, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Honestly, so much of what we’ve come up with recently reads an awful lot like the Monday Night Movie of the Week my parent’s used to watch when I was growing up
———
What I’ve got in my head would make a great movie. It doesn’t have to be true.
In my movie RS wouldn’t be such a bad guy. He’s just trying to achieve the American dream. So he’s here illegally and does a bit of drug dealing. Mostly he trying to raise a family and build a legitimate business that requires a lot of hard work. He gets himself involved with an evil woman who threatens to take it all away if he doesn’t help her. But that evil woman betrayed him and set him up.
Then there’s sweet Elsy and her darling kids who got mixed up in this crime and have to flee. In my movie I make sure they’re safe, probably in Honduras.
The male villain could be a buffoon of a mayor or someone in from the maritime world. Someone who travels internationally for a living. Here one day and gone the next. Come to think of it, I’ll go with the guy from the maritime world but will include the buffoon of a mayor, just for color.
Center stage is the most evil woman on earth in flaming red hair. A woman with a past she’s kept hidden. Until now….
Emmy says:
October 21, 2010 at 6:32 pm
MockingbirdSings says:
October 21, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Rudy gave up registration of the name “Rudy Sanchez Landscape Maintenance” in 2007. The state won’t let you use a name too close to another name (in their opinion). Rudy registered the “R. S. Landscape Maintenance” name in January of 2008 so it looks like he could have renewed his original business name if he had wanted to – just an observation.
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We know Rudy likes his aliases. Having the full name on his business was probably too constrictive. Initials offer more flexibility when picking your name of the day.
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I suppose this is a small thing, and I mean no offense, but I don’t know whether Rudy likes aliases or not. I do know that it was said he had an alias – but have we ever shown there was any name except one that has always been associated with him? His name is “Rodolfo”, it was misspelled “Rodolpho” in one of the comments about his work (Service Magic, I think), and he uses the nickname “Rudy” – that is one name and 2 aliases right there if you go by the common definition of alias.
Add to that the switching of the last 2 names names due to cultural misunderstandings and multiple kinds of forms we require people to complete and you could have at least 2 more aliases. I do not believe I’ve heard Rudy’s second name yet, if he has one.
My point is that someone could say he has an alias and be correct, but they could be hoping people will take that to mean he is hiding something and it will cast doubt on what he says. I have not yet seen any evidence of deceit in the use of his name.
People do use an alias for criminal purposes, of course, but here’s one example which ended up both ways. I know a young woman who was in a bad marriage with a drug addict (now divorced). He was stopped for a traffic violation and didn’t want to have his own record checked so he gave the officer someone else’s name and said he didn’t have his license with him and that his wife would vouch for him. The young woman was in the car and refused to lie for him. He was charged with several things including lying to an officer. Sometime later, he was arrested again and that other name was listed as an alias because it had gone in a police report that way. His wife was never charged, never suspected, never used drugs, never did anything wrong, but a reporter later wrote an article about him and referred to her as his wife and having an alias using the other last name he had given because she was listed as his wife. She was horrified and angry. She was not associated with the story at all other than being listed as his wife.
Ever since then, I have had a different view of what it means to have an alias, also, it is not illegal to use any name you want as long as you do not use it to defraud someone.
Am I defending Rudy? Up to a point, because I believe a lot of the changes in Hispanic names are unintentional and caused by a lack of understanding. Sadly, I did it myself when first working in a high school with students new to this country, and they were either too polite to correct me or didn’t understand my confusion and wanted to do it “right”. I regret that.
Anselmo, on the other hand, has a list of aliases quite different from his real name and, combined with his criminal history, that would lead me to believe he has used them for deceptive purposes.
MockingbirdSings says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 22, 2010 at 3:06 pm
“Add to that the switching of the last 2 names names . . .”
oops – sorry about the double “names” – no hidden meaning there as far as I know but I had to laugh at myself
lyla says:
October 22, 2010 at 11:31 am
Well, this story is even more than bizzare…tweeting alright..HA!
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/05/second_mayor_sam_adams_acciden.html
And this is why we say, Oh Beloved Portland, Keep It Weird!
Something that has bothered me since the beginning. If Kyron was supposed to be in the Talent Show later that day, why didn’t any of his parents attend?
Ok-who can be at a school and not raise eyebrows – Food delivery, paper supply, media(?) Was there newspaper coverage of the SF?
Trash pickup, teen brothers/sisters.. There is something out there that’ll blow this wide open — but what?
I have seen it mentioned more than once as to why Terri just wouldn’t give Kyron to Desiree if she didn’t want him. This is in all due respect to those who pose that valid question. I have 4 different reasons. First…..I am sure Terri wouldn’t want $500. a month (or whatever) going to Desiree for Kyron’s care, coming from their pocket. Second…she wouldn’t want to look like a failure as a mother. Third….if she was trying to ‘get rid’ of the kids for her personal reasons and she had already sent James away to live with his step-dad, wouldn’t this maybe put up a red flag to Kaine? Forth…I think Kaine just loved his boy too much to let him go. Just my opinion, of course.
Prayers for Kyron, his 2 big brothers, his sister, and all of us that dearly love him.
beejay says:
October 22, 2010 at 9:08 am
That’s the scarey part: it’s someone no one would have suspected. And still don’t?? school staff, a delivery person.
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School staff or a delivery person. Last night before going to bed, I was going over and over in my mind pieces of what we know (or don’t realize yet) about June 4th and the SF at the school and it dawned on me … as beejay said, what ABOUT a delivery person? It’s true, no one has really questioned that aspect yet, have they? I’m sure LE has, but we haven’t heard anything about any deliveries being made that day to Skyline if in fact there ever were any. Were there any UPS, Fed Ex or other deliveries made at Skyline that day? Did TMH know the normal delivery person if she volunteered at the school often? Is the USPS mail carrier for the school even a possible option?
Not sure if the USPS delivers mail directly to schools or the board offices in Portland but I would imagine the schools individually, no? No offense to anyone who might work for the PO, (I used to be part of the postal atmosphere myself but many yrs ago while in college as a casual), but in the short time I was there , I know there were quite a few questionable characters in our small post office alone … and this was also thought to be a relatively safe, quiet little town where many people knew each other.
Some of the carriers specifically I definitely would not have wanted to have been caught alone with. There was talk of a couple of the employees allegedly having questionable backgrounds when it came to kids from things other employees had heard through the yrs, not to mention the few alcoholics and thiefs we also had. My point for mentioning this simply is … sometimes you just really never know what people are truly like and sometimes it’s the people you would never suspect in a million yrs.
If it was someone who already worked at the school that may have gotten Ky’s trust, that also wouldn’t have drawn attention to themselves, who would that possibly be? My first thoughts of the people we know would be either the janitor or GW. I know it was allegedly planned mths before, but I still can’t get the GK’s timeline out of my head, where he said he was that day mowing, what he thought he saw (or didn’t) and how his story somewhat changed from the 1st time LE interviewed him til the 2nd time, then he just so happens to leave for Mexico very soon after. I know the Mexico trip was supposedly planned ahead of time, but even so … I just keep wondering why no physical evidence appears to be showing up anywhere of where Ky might actually be (that we know of anyway), so I can’t get the thought out of my mind that he might possibly no longer be here (anywhere nearby that is). The Mexico trip is possibly nothing at all. It’s simply the timing of it that just really makes me wonder.
Something else that just literally dawned on me 2 seconds ago while typing this … and this is a huge stretch I know, so my apologies in advance for my possibly out of touch speculation here, but if DS works for the Portland Parks and Recreation, that makes him a city employee, right? I don’t know how Portland’s city flow chart works in regard to heirarchy, but who would be his boss? Would the mayor have anything to do the Parks and Recreation sector?
I too sometimes go back to the mayor’s strange behavior over time, his almost too quick, excitable tweets (and the timing of them), and then this hit me. If LE’s comments about “knowing things they wished they didn’t” had anything to do with possibly involving one of their own as panda said, could “one of their own” mean not only possibly a school employee, but a city employee and/or a contractor for the city or school as well? Could that be why the mayor’s quick attempt to see if the public could possibly identify him? Or maybe he wanted the person ID’d quickly or simply wanted to indirectly give a head’s up to the mystery person before LE could question them. I thought I remembered reading on one of the Oregon sites I found that Oregon city officials are also automatically considered “mandatory reporters” in cases of child abuse, neglect, etc. I don’t know … I really don’t … just thinking out loud here. Shear speculation I know, but I have nothing else to go on at the moment and my head is spinning.
If this were someone unknown at the time around Skyline to be a potential danger to children, is it possible there is no record on this person yet because they have yet to be caught in anything criminal? Could Ky be their 1st victim? Did the school do a significant background check on it’s staff before they were hired? And if there’s no record yet, there’s probably no DNA banked for them yet either.
LE was quoted as saying they hope to have this case wrapped up by January. January?! OMG, I can’t wait that long! That’s still 2 mths away! I am guessing since searches evidently seem to be dissolving, since no one has been arrested yet and since there doesn’t seem to be that sense of urgency LE had initially when the case started that they basically know they have plenty of time because there is no longer a live child to potentially be rescued? Is this really going to be the outcome after all is said and done? After all this? And yet … still here we sit at our PC’s and BOC night after night, day after day feeling helpless … researching, blogging and trying to piece together timelines while still praying, hoping and getting teary-eyed together in the hope that somehow LE missed something and they’re completely wrong. How many of us Blinksters believe Ky is in fact still here … but looking down on us from above in God’s hands. I still can’t bring myself to say it. But w/what we know of the people potentially involved I’m not sure I have the faith to believe he’s been gone this long and someone is simply just hiding him.
I’ve always thought TH was responsible, on her own, for Kyron’s disappearance. But… there is so much buzz going in other directions, I’ve forced myself to think outside my little therapist’s box. Is it possible that Michael Cook was helping her out with the staged kidnapping that went awry? He certainly showed up out of nowhere at an odd time. All the sexting that went on might have been the tip of the iceberg of what was going on between them. He certainly has been on and off everyone’s radar abruptly. Why aren’t we talking about him anymore?? Isn’t it odd that he would just suddenly appear out of nowhere right when Kyron disappeared? Is it possible that he and Terri were carrying on prior to June 4th? He rates high on my skank-ometer. As far as people speculating about Kaine engaging in questionable behavior, here’s my take on him, fwiw: he’s engineer through and through. That means that psychologically he runs and inch wide and a mile deep. He’s a linear thinker, uncomfortable with strong emotions (He picked a partner who supplied that component). I think he’s probably a bit socially uncomfortable and that’s why he appears a bit awkward sometimes on camera. I don’t get any kind of odd vibe from him, I just look at him and see a broken man who is reeling in guilt and remorse.
5.lyla says:
October 22, 2010 at 11:31 am
Totally O/T here:
I’m not sure if lyla posted the car accident article about Mayor Adams, but whomever did, THANK YOU! OMG…ROTFL…made. my. day.
panda says:
October 22, 2010 at 10:26 am
@justice — of those two ships, when I go on the .mil site to research them, one of them crashes my computer, the other had a change of command on July 25. Please ask your husband if it is normal to have a change of command after 21 months, just a few days before the end of a deployment.
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Okay, panda … I just asked my husband about the deployment and he said this. Yes … it is very unusual for there to be a change of command during deployment period, but at the same time, it “can” happen. It actually happened to his ship but a few days right after the deployment began instead of ended. He said the captain made a huge error and ran the ship into a marked reef and caused $60 million in damage so of course, the Navy replaced him as I would expect they would because none of the higher ups were too happy, go figure, LOL.
So I asked him if it’s unusual for their to be a change, then why would it happen and under what circumstances? He told me if the captain does something bad they will often have a change of command regardless of deployment beginning/ending and also that the captain is responsible for everyone on board, so he may face the consequences of someone elses actions if in fact something like that should happen. Questioning further, I asked about criminal activity and a captain’s responsibility to that and he said that the captain can be held accountable, both for his own actions and those of his crew. He also added if an individual say molests, kills, kidnaps someone, or engages in some other criminal activity, those prosecuting the case would have to show the captain was complicit in either helping the criminal in some way and/or not preventing it in order to be charged as well. Wow .. even I didn’t know all that. Learn something new every day although now that I see where this might be going, I wish I almost didn’t know either, lol.
Hope that helped panda. If you need anymore Navy questions answered, ask away. I’m getting quite an education just being the go-between {:)
Okay, my other post is in moderation so I cleaned it up a bit. Sorry, Blink, I don’t really tip toe very well…
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evie says:
October 21, 2010 at 12:30 pm
If LE were trying to make an ID of someone and they had no idea of that person’s identity, wouldn’t they broadcast those pics/fliers to as many as possible (ala Mayor Sam drawing attention to one photo)?
If LE did not do that, who would they be looking for without knowing their identity already?
@evie- Those fliers were pounced on by the media and subsequently were plastered all over the news and internet. Only a person hiding under a rock would have missed them, IMO every Joe Average in the state of Oregon saw the fliers.
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@beejay- You referenced someone with a military connection. I can’t find anything, give me a clue if you can, please. TIA.
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There has been a lot of discussion as to whether Ky was supposed to be with DY and TY that weekend, and did TH and KH know this. IIRC from a TY interview, Ky was supposed to go fishing with TY on Sat. June 5th, TH and/or KH were to meet DY and TY in Eugene to send Ky home with DY, and yes, KH and TH both knew this.
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puzzled says:
October 21, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Rosey .. I think this has been one of the prevailing theories, at least on the blogs, but take TH out of the equation and these questions fall away. There is still yet a different theory out there that involves multi agencies, someone under investigation prior to June 4th and the capability to disappear a small child so that there is no trace of where he is.
A bored unsatisfied rural housewife is not this person.
@puzzled- Exactly! Where would said person diappear a child to? Another country where they had some sort of connection? A hiding place in the US? Would love hear your thoughts, I think we’re close to the same “campground”.
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My question for today: When LE says “We know things we wish we didn’t”, could this pertain to person(s) involved in state programs for children, or someone involved in child education, or someone ina position of power in local or state government or LE? Wouldn’t that upset LE immensely? I really have a gut feeling that the “upsetting things” involves children.
@enumclawrose
@beejay
Snipit Quote from the Oregonian
“Car Toys employee Randy Schweitz, 22, told The Oregonian that after the crash he had gone to check on Reed. Schweitz said Adams got out of his truck and walked up to him. “He asked if everybody was all right. I could smell alcohol. His zipper was undone, and his (shorts) button was undone.”
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Now…ain’t he a “dandy”? Two recall efforts with no success. Beyond bizzare.
Emmy says:
October 22, 2010 at 2:12 pm
“@neighbor – Interesting that JK’s neighbor ID’d TH as the one in the truck. I would assume that was from the 3:00 sighting because unless they got up right next to the car or an interior light was on, I think the 2am sighting would be too hard to ID someone or even ID a gender.”
It has to be information like this that drives LE bonkers. Kaine said he got home around 2:00 PM, went to Kiara’s room to greet her, got something to eat and went to work at his computer. He said Terri was on her laptop. Before Kyron’s bus was to arrive, Kaine put Kiara’s shoes on her and they all walked down to the bus stop, Terri following Kaine and Kiara.
I’m not convinced Terri could have gone out the door, fired up the truck (is it diesel?) drove to a neighboring road to be identified at 3:00 PM, turned around and got back, all without being heard by Kaine. I could be wrong though.
I also do not see the resemblance between TH and DS. Even their red hair is a different color and totally different styles. Their face structure is completely different and they have different builds. Are they the same height?
But if it was DeDe then we have to assume she was not in the Hormon truck. To me this sounds a lot like the tip about a red mustang zooming around Sauvie Island with a white truck while we know the Hormon red Mustang was parked at Intel. I think well meaning and over exuberant people “see” things.
@I Care re: why TH didn’t just send Kyron to Desiree.. thank you for the alternate explanation. I didn’t consider it that way.
@ Emmy says: October 22, 2010 at 2:12 pm Thank you for telling me why you think the JK truck sighting is weird. We are on the same page.
Today is Friday, one week from the start of the Task Force’s review of the case up to now. Going forward from today, they should be taking action of the items they have reviewed and prioritized this week. Fingers crossed that they are ready to charge forward.
Oh yeah. January. : (
TH could have left the house at 3pm. Maybe she left when KH was working or maybe she said she was going on an errand. Was she supposed to get Kyron back? Was that the $$ drop?
As Emmy points out, even if TH was the one in the truck at 3pm, it doesn’t mean she was in the truck at 2am. Maybe she sent someone else — like RS.
@anonanon says:
October 22, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Something that has bothered me since the beginning. If Kyron was supposed to be in the Talent Show later that day, why didn’t any of his parents attend?
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Do we know for sure that Kyron was to be in the talent show? I’ve not seen any official mention of that.
In one of the video interviews done with a local news station, Kaine said that he didn’t know there was to be a talent show that day.
lyla says:
October 22, 2010 at 11:31 am
Well, this story is even more than bizzare…tweeting alright..HA!
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2009/05/second_mayor_sam_adams_acciden.html
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Wowzer, that’s quite an interesting story, isn’t it? I didn’t know Adams had a white truck too … that one really caught my attention I must say! Also … his fly was unzipped and his shorts were unbuttoned? Seems like LE wasn’t really agreeing, but a couple of the witnesses commented about him possibly having been drinking as well. Things that make you go “Hmmm ….”?
@ anonanon says:
October 22, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Something that has bothered me since the beginning. If Kyron was supposed to be in the Talent Show later that day, why didn’t any of his parents attend?
-I’ve not seen anything anywhere discussing this. Your question just made me realize that. Was Kyron performing? Wouldn’t at least one of the parents make a point to go to the show if he was? Kaine came home early — to go back to the school for the show? But it’s never been discussed anywhere that I’ve seen.
Ok, have we got this “breaking news” yet?
Today KH filed a court document opposing TH getting visitation with Kitty. Pretty strong language; in part:
Stating in the filing that Terri “also attempted to hire a third party to murder him,” Kaine urges the court not to grant Terri visitation with their daughter.
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine-Terri-abducted-may-have-caused-unimaginable-harm-to-Kyron-105567163.html
Watching KGW news at 5:00. New documents filed by Kaine Horman in the divorce case late yesterday. Kaine wants to review TH’s mental health, medical and financial records and history before he will allow her access to Kiara. Further states in documents that KH strongly believes TH abducted and may have irreversibly harmed his son. Will post a link when one becomes available online.
Link to KOIN news on new Horman divorce filing:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Horman-court-motions-fight-for-daughter-continue/QYlEqruACkGhA-hFH45jIQ.cspx
10/21/10 Horman restraining order motion from KOIN news:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/b/6/9/b69f88e8-b5dd-4ee7-a91d-7125fde7b948/SharpNews_koin.com_20101022_165135.pdf
OK, re: my previous post about Kaine’s filing today, did anybody else understand that to mean that he believes TH attempted to hire a third part to murder KY????
That’s what I thought. Rereading it, and considering it sounded totally off the deep end, I think KH is simply reiterating the earlier MFH plot against KH. The ‘him’ referencing Kaine–NOT Ky. Think that was intentionally reported that way? Or maybe it’s just me.
Anyhoo, I just grabbed it; didn’t write it. But it is unclear to me. So, today’s strongest-yet wording blaming TH for Ky’s disappearance, as kgw sees it would be their lead para:
“In new court documents, Kaine Horman states he believes Terri Moulton-Horman “abducted and may have caused unimaginable harm” to Kyron Horman.”
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine-Terri-abducted-may-have-caused-unimaginable-harm-to-Kyron-105567163.html
Not sure if you are working on a new piece yet Blink, or if one of the other well informed contributors has posted the latest in on the court case regarding visitation of kitty by Terri- but if not, Here it is- Kaine seems to lay it all on the line in the motions- stating:
“In new court documents, Kaine Horman states he believes Terri Moulton-Horman “abducted and may have caused unimaginable harm” to Kyron Horman.”
further Snipped:
Stating in the filing that Terri “also attempted to hire a third party to murder him,” Kaine urges the court not to grant Terri visitation with their daughter. “Such extreme and unexpected behavior cannot be taken lightly by Petitioner (Kaine Horman) or the Court when making decisions affecting the well-being of an almost two-year-old child.”
http://www.kgw.com/home/Kaine-Terri-abducted-may-have-caused-unimaginable-harm-to-Kyron-105567163.html
Not sure this is going to stop supervised visitation- but Kaine and his lawyers are trying. I’d be interested in hearing everyone’s opinion.
What a horrible- sickening -sad mess this is- and still no Kyron.
Does James get to see Kitty? Do her grandparents?
My prayers tonight for Kyron, his sister, his brother, James and his family.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/b/6/9/b69f88e8-b5dd-4ee7-a91d-7125fde7b948/SharpNews_koin.com_20101022_165135.pdf
Here are the docs filed today by Kaine’s attorney in response to Terri’s request for visitation
@enumclawrose says:October 22, 2010 at 3:07 am AND neighbor (because something might click for you).
e-rose, I like your JK post here very much. LE in attendance could make a LOT of sense to the 2am sighting.. remember when JK made his comment to the reporter was in the early early days, before the cone of silence descended.
You ask “Who lives close to him, and why was that road was potentially chosen?”
I say: Yes, but instead of looking in the immediate road-connected neighborhood (as beejay points out, the V family lives around the corner.. you have to pass their house to get to JK’s from the main road) I am more interested in who lives on NW 3rd Ave. or would otherwise feel comfortable going down that road. It’s possible to get on foot from there to the back of the JK + his neighbor’s property.
Weird, while just snooping around I found a video from the AP, which has JK’s neighbor SR in it.. he’s identified as a parent (for some reason I thought they were not).
It still does not make sense as a good area for sneaking around, because you can not get in/out of there without being noticed by many people (and the road is horrible!).
One more thought about mayor Sam and all his questionable behaviors How apropos to have a mayor named after a beer!!! and btw, who’s in his back pocket that they don’t give him a field sobriety test!!??
One more thought about mayor Sam and all his questionable behaviors How apropos to have a mayor named after a beer!!!! and btw, who’s in his back pocket that they don’t give him a field sobriety test!!??
A note on Hispanic names…
I have worked in the nursery industry in Oregon for years and have worked with plenty of Mexican and Guatemalan nationals. An “alias” is almost always used in conjuction w/ a fake social security number. That is to say that identification and documentation can be purchased, allowing an illegal immigrant the opportunity to work here. I have known some decent, hardworking people who I have called by two or three different names over the course of a few years, due to the fact that their documentation had “gone bad” and they had to purchase new identities to procure employment. So, I’m not sure that a hispanic using an alias is so out of the norm.
Also, there are a lot of Russians in East Portland and Gresham. I’ve seen furniture stores with signs only in Russian. I believe that the Russian mob is probably entrenched in Portland. It doesn’t surprise me that the billboards would appear in three languages.
Breaking news: Kaine…”Terri Horman May have caused “unimagingable Harm” to Kyron
http://www.kgw.com/