Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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@ClassyGal says: October 25, 2010 at 2:46 pm
“The murder-for-hire plot mentioned in court documents was revealed in mid-June, when The Oregonian reported that a landscaper once employed by the Horman family told police that Moulton-Horman had offered him a ***”large sum of money”*** to kill her husband.” -David Lohr AOL News 10/25/2010
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/stepmother-terri-moulton-horman-caused-unimaginable-harm-to-kyron-horman-dad-says/19688080
_______________________________
@lyla says:
October 25, 2010 at 7:27 pm
“Regarding the MFH..It was said that RS “expected something from her (TH)”. Maybe RS expected to be paid for finding someone else to do the job for her. If TH was actually serious about the MFH what would stop her from finding someone to do away with Ky ?…”
_____________________________
IIRC the comment RS said “expected something from her (TMH)” is the comment collectively everyone has gone with. Speculating “what the something” was.
Classy Gal link w/statement from the Oregonian that TMH had offered him a “large sum of money” to kill her husband.
Am I just foggy & sleep deprived as that “statement” had NOT been clear to what TMH “owed” ?
Justice23 10-26 10:54am
I really don’t know what to make of Ky, Elsy, Jaime, Ubaldo and the Pumala ex-wife or sister that all disappeared or left the area within three weeks of eachother.
Difficulty posting anything for last 12 hours – now says it looks like I already posted it but doesn’t show in moderation.
Part 1 – Before we are too hard on Kaine, I’d like to contribute a few thoughts.
I have assumed all along Terri was an alcoholic (a lifetime disease) because of her driving record (DUI and other tickets), her trouble with relationships, her affairs, and the way people (ex-husbands, friends, parents) seemed to protect or go along with her even when she probably didn’t deserve it by normal standards. Since no one had mentioned current drinking, I thought she might have had some alcohol treatment after her DUI and then remained in control through the first years of her marriage to Kaine and through her pregnancy at least, but no one has said any adequate treatment actually began.
Kaine was asked in an early interview about the DUI and said he knew about it and that he thought they had worked through that. I imagine Kaine saw Terri’s DUI as an error in judgment, not that she was an alcoholic. I believe some apparently good times occurred before reaching the point of married life that Kaine is describing – we have all said that when looking at their FB pics. He probably didn’t start questioning her behavior until after Kiara was born and then attributed any problems to depression (which may or may not have been true).
My guess is that Kaine started to “wake up” when things didn’t get a lot better after she said she had meds for the depression – maybe it has only been a year and a half at the most that he has been trying to figure out what’s going on. At the same time, there were (coincidentally?) the distractions of overspending and issues with James’ skipping school and Kyron not following adult directions, plus she had an affair to hide. Nobody could really expect him to suddenly say 9 months or 12 months or 15 months ago, “My wife’s an alcoholic, I’d better take the kids and get a divorce before she kills somebody.” It’s just not that simple.
Every alcoholic learns how to choose partners and friends who are likely to support their drinking by partying with them, or by not asking questions, by backing down when told to back off, or by taking on more and more of the family or work responsibilities. If the man is the only one who suspects his wife is drinking too much, he can feel very isolated and think no one would believe him anyway, including the person determining child custody.
“Approximately one in four children is exposed to family alcoholism, addiction, or alcohol abuse some time before the age of 18.”
http://www.alcoholism-information.com/Alcoholism_Statistics.html and other sites
Unfortunately, children learn they have a “proper role” to play with an alcoholic parent also. The dynamics of alcoholic families have been well studied. In the Horman family you can figure out the “caretaker” child, the “scapegoat” child, and the “cute clown” child without even reading the textbooks. Children have the purest kind of love for their parents – they do all they can to make things seem right. Some families survive this way, others can’t, and of course, we all know it is never any child’s fault.
I have always suspected James was sent away because he had seen her drinking (and drug?) behavior before, recognized the signs, and might have seen more than she wanted him to if he wouldn’t stay predictably at school. While sending him away gave her more freedom, his being there had provided a reminder of the consequences of past drinking. A teen is more likely than anyone else to pay attention to what drugs and alcohol are around even if it is only because they want to know what the adults in the family are doing. It is not unusual for a teen’s response to a parent’s “delinquency” to include some acting out in return.
Sometimes it seems we visualize Kaine allowing a possibly impaired Terri to care for 2 little kids, but until about 4 months before June 4th, James was also there. He may also have done a little parenting of the younger kids and I highly doubt he would tell Kaine anything his mom was doing wrong, if he knew. I respect and admire James for doing the best he can for his mother. I hope he will get help with understanding it all when he feels ready to do that.
From the things that were said about difficulty following directions at school and perhaps some emotional/neurological (spacing out?) changes in Kyron, it appears to me that he was on his way toward becoming the family “scapegoat” – which means any trouble he caused or needs that he had would be used by Terri to take the focus off of her and also to give herself another excuse to drink. At the same time she would have felt pressured (by herself) to successfully deal with the problems. From what Desiree said they were all trying to help Kyron, although I’m not clear on whether anyone else ever saw what Terri was describing about possible seizures.
After June 4th, I would expect Kaine to keep trying to convince Terri he would support her and make every attempt to get information from her. He couldn’t afford to walk out if there was a chance to get her to help find Kyron. Blink understood this, I think, when she started her support thread for Terri.
Still reeling from the documents…she’s worried about not getting any & Kyron will never get to go to a school dance, graduate from highschool, get married…have kids….she is a narcisstic, disgusting human being.
I removed the beginning quotes from other posts – not really needed anyway, and it posted. Hooray.
Part 2
At this point, I think Kaine has to bring up the “dirty laundry” in order to protect Kaira now. It can no longer remain “he said, she didn’t say” when he has to make the case for no visitation. Kiara is another victim of Terri’s choices and will need lots of love and prayers and counseling as she grows up.
As for the red mustang – Kaine probably didn’t think of this, but if I were giving a car to someone who was prone to get traffic tickets, I would pick red – one of the top colors known to catch the eye of LE. Maybe it would slow them down or get them caught.
@beejay – I can understand Kaine being clueless sometimes much better now. Terri doesn’t appear to be that organized herself and the children’s routines were “Kyron stay in bed or room, and Kiara don’t go to bed” – more or less. Keeping someone in the dark by not making things clear is a great form of manipulation. Yes, Kaine should probably have pushed harder to know more, but I can understand why he didn’t. I don’t believe he would say he worked at home a lot if he didn’t – too easy to prove one way or the other. He does say he traveled for work, which is one thing I have asked about several times. In any case, he didn’t have a simple 40 hour a week job.
What else could Kaine have done? Probably start with his employee assistance program or health provider and talk to somebody. I think he would have done something eventually, but most people get more time to figure it out without running into the horrible mess he is going through. We must remember, he has not been trying to figure this out since day 1 of their marriage, only the last year or so, and even then the more rapid changes seem to have happened only after James left. While we (and he) may agree that Kaine made some poor choices along the way, most of us have also made at least a few poor choices. Who’s to say whether any of us could have done anything more to predict disaster and save Kyron if we were in Kaine’s shoes?
——————-
I still stand by what I posted in early September:
“Terri started to lose it – either feeling tempted to drink again or maybe starting to drink during the day, changing her behavior toward Kyron (confusing him, but he loved and tried to take care of her), toward James (who has been through this before and will recognize the signs), and probably toward Kiara (who responds as a toddler would).”
“I believe she brought up the MFH and then about the 2nd or third time she talked about it, Rudy realized she was serious. He also realized this is an unfaithful woman whose children would be without a father, and he refused to listen and ended the affair. Rudy did not think she would really continue to pursue it, just that she was a little crazy [now - perhaps he thought she was drunk]. He did not go to the police because he is here illegally and because SHE likely threatened to make sure that he no longer could work at the school or anywhere she knew of – he thought she had a lot of influence, just as she said.”
Perhaps one of the “vampires” that she let in, came in a bottle.
Maybe Kyron heard Terri and James argue about her drinking and driving. Maybe he heard Kaine and Terri argue about her drinking. Seven isn’t too young to recognize alcohol and understand the effects of drinking, including not driving well. Maybe when Desiree said “he saw it all” – what Kyron saw was Terri drinking that morning and maybe he didn’t want her to drive away – and she already knew he could soon be telling both his parents any secrets he knew.
If she can bench press 190 pounds as she said, she could certainly toss a 50 pound child into the back or bed of a truck (or trunk) if she wanted to, then walk back through or around the building and leave in plain sight. All she would have needed then is a contact person to take him from her at the school or after – someone she knew in advance would be interested in him. I don’t think it was Rudy – MOO.
Read KH’s affidavit, read the texts… Horrendous. My initial thoughts were, WHAT did Kyron suffer prior to him missing? What must he have endured at the hands of TH, and nobody knew… not even his Dad. I cannot even imagine what DY must feel reading this, knowing this… it brings tears to my eyes, and makes me feel sick. Everytime new information is uncovered, my heart breaks all over again for Kyron.
God be with Kiara always so that she can grow in a loving environment into a positive woman.
God be with you, Kyron. There are so many that miss you, and I am sure nobody more than your Mom, Desiree. My heart and prayers go out to the parents (DY, TY, and KH).
I am the last person to attack a bereaved parent. These are observations, based on new information.
The new documents are revealing. KH states that he was aware of ETOH abuse, and of negligence and/or abuse (Kiara staying up all hours, being left unsupervised and awake, while mom was passed out, drunk).
I also recall discussion (earlier PC with DY) re TH’s negativity and criticism of Ky. Imagine being a 7-year-old, with a primary care giver/parent who has such a negative opinion of you.
I wonder if CPS is involved now. If a parent is aware of abuse and neglect by the other parent, and does not intervene (by that, I don’t mean go get the baby and put her to sleep) and remove the child(ren) or notify authorities, and harm then comes to (one of) the child(ren), the parent who knew is often held accountable for failure to protect.
I do not mean to imply that KH is responsible for TMH’s actions, or for harm coming to Kyron. But in Kiara’s case, if he knew something was up for an extended period of time, and didn’t make a move to protect Kiara (and Kyron) from her, then I would be very surprised if CPS wasn’t monitoring the situation, and requiring certain things from KH (counseling, parenting classes).
I know that CPS varies from state to state, so it may be that Oregon CPS does not persue failure to protect cases. If this woman is an alcoholic, who was arrested for child endangerment while DUI, it is difficult to understand her being allowed to drive the children everywhere unsupervised. Is it only in retrospect that KH is recalling these things?
I do feel for KH. I know from experience, the burden of the loss of a child, and the associated guilt that comes along with it (if only I noticed… If only I had been there…), regardless as to the circumstances, and the long and arduous road to healing.
Praying for Ky to be found Godspeed. Come home, little man.
It was apparent from the first day forward … round the clock searching, no public allowed searchers, no public statements from the family … appeared as recovery & securing/maintaining evidence … the “truth” on the face & in the voice of the Deputy who spoke @ pressers … Reality sucks … no one deserves to have this happen to them … especially a child who became prey for some sicko predator …
It is long past time for Kyron to come home.
Desiree’s worse nightmare has become her reality. May angels walk beside her.
________________________________
beejay says: October 25, 2010 at 12:41 pm
“Blink means by this crime ultimately being “sexually motivated” that Ky was himself the target of a sex crime.”
“So, work that into your theories about why Ky was abducted. Someone intended to abuse him sexually. And then, per Blink, killed him within a short period of time (48 hours IIRC).”
PS. Anyone who questions why I could go “there” from first day: Westley Allen Dodd.
Below is a snippet of information on him. Just google him & you’ll find him. [Even now all these years later.
Westley Allan Dodd (July 3, 1961 – January 5, 1993) was a convicted American serial killer and child molester. His execution on January 5, 1993, was the first legal hanging (at his own request) in the United States since 1965.
Westley Allan Dodd was born in Richland, Washington on July 3, 1961.[citation needed] Unlike most serial killers, Dodd claimed he was never abused or neglected [1]. He also reported that he grew up in a wealthy, happy family [2].
Dodd began sexually abusing children when he was a teenager; his first victims were his own cousins. All his victims (over 50 in all) were boys below the age of 12, some of them as young as two.
Dodd’s sexual fantasies became increasingly violent over the years (he wrote about wanting to eat the genitals of his victims).
He killed brothers Cole and William Neer (aged 11 and 10, respectively) in Vancouver, Washington in 1989, and tortured, raped and murdered four-year-old Lee Iseli (kidnapped from a Portland public park in broad day light.)
After he was arrested for trying to abduct a boy from a movie theater (Camas), the police found a homemade torture rack in his home, as yet unused.
He was arrested by local police in Camas, Washington and interviewed by task force detectives. Portland Police Bureau Detective C. W. Jensen and Clark County Detective Rick Buckner obtained Dodd’s confession and served the search warrant on his home.
Dodd was sentenced to death in 1990 for molesting and then stabbing to death Cole Neer (age 11) and his brother William (10) near a Vancouver, Washington park in 1989, as well as for the separate rape and murder of Lee Iseli (4).
Less than four years elapsed between the murders and Dodd’s execution. He refused to appeal his case or the capital sentence, stating, “I must be executed before I have an opportunity to escape or kill someone within the prison. If I do escape, I promise you I will kill prison guards if I have to and rape and enjoy every minute of it.” While in court he said that, if he escaped from jail, he would immediately go back to “killing and raping kids.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westley_Allan_Dodd
To anyone’s knowledge has there at any time been mention of a lime-green car in connection to this case?
Updated on KATU
“For example, he says Terry “has historical problems with the abuse of alcohol, which have impaired her functioning since Kiara’s birth.” There he cites a case reported on by KATU in July, where the***Oregon Department of Human Services*** opened a case on Terri Horman following a 2005 arrest and charge of driving under the influence. Her biological son James, who was 11 at the time, was in the car when his mother was arrested. As such, Horman also was convicted of reckless endangerment of that son.”
“Kaine alleges now-16-year-old James left their family home four months before Kyron’s disappearance because Terri was “unable to interact with James on a healthy level and had him moved to her parents’ home in Roseburg.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/105747813.html
Would any of the mental health readers/posters weigh-in on these latest motions of KH & what might TMH reaction/behavior be ? Would this push her to act out “more” in some way -or – ? TIA
On another “missing child”- Zahra Baker…
Zahra Baker case: Zahra’s body reported to have been found (unconfirmed)
Posted on October 26th, 2010 by Valhall
Hinky readers are reporting news is breaking from searchers that Zahra Baker’s body has been found wrapped in a mattress. The body is reported to have been located somewhere in Caldwell County, North Carolina. Latest posts state Zahra was found off Burns road and that someone assisting in search reported her body has been found off Christie Road.
This is developing, and unconfirmed at this time. Please read comments from readers to stay up to date.
Update as of 3:50 ET:
WSCO TV is confirming a mattress “matching the description” of Zahra’s has been located and a two-mile section of Christie Road has been blocked off. No confirmation yet on the discovery of Zahra’s body.
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/25516624/detail.html
Rest in peace Zahra. You are in God’s hands now.
beejay says:
October 26, 2010 at 10:19 am
Right out of the gate, in his second point of the latest Affidavit, he says:
“Until Respondent begins answering questions about the events of June 4, 2010, I cannot support any contact between her and Kiara, even if supervised.”
~~~
Yup … this is the language that suggests to me Kaine is feeling a loss of control. Coupled with the following: “I want Respondent to tell the truth. I want Respondent to provide information to investigators that may lead to Kyron’s location.”
not that he’s wrong to have these feelings .. but demanding isn’t going to accomplish anything ..
Crews recover mattress in Zahra Baker search
“Baker’s stepmother, Elisa Baker, who is charged with obstruction of justice in connection with the girl’s disappearance, accompanied search crews to three locations — Hartland Road, Burns Road and Christie Road in Hudson, the town where Baker attended elementary school two separate times.”
“She was accompanied by Lisa Dubs, a well-known defense attorney in murder cases. Currently, Baker’s most serious charge in the case is obstruction of justice.”
“Christie Road was blocked at both ends from 9 a.m. To 5 p.m. while crews, consisting of the FBI, SBI, Hickory police and the Caldwell County sheriff’s office, searched an acre of land. Crews recently searched 60 acres in Morganton and authorities say they will continue.”
http://charlotte.news14.com/content/top_stories/631962/crews-recover-mattress-in-zahra-baker-search
Snipped from TH text to MC; “Money. Yeah. A discussion w/u and the girls manana. Kerry has a good idea.”
Who is Kerry?
Did anyone ever see a further explanation of why Ky was born prematurely and why DY was in premature labor? All I’ve found was where DY said:
“after being in premature labor for one and a half months the doctor finally gave us the okay when he was 3 weeks early. After 13 hours of labor he was born into this world and the very first thing he did was shoot a stream of pee at the nurse that delivered him and got it right in the oxygen mask.”
http://www.facebook.com/notes/missing-kyron-horman/kyrons-birth/145783998792366
Blink, my posts from early this morning are still in moderation. Have I been grounded? What a day…
Kimberly says:
October 26, 2010 at 3:04 pm
12.justice23 says:
October 26, 2010 at 10:38 am
This is actually AV , and Kurtis’ brother, not his sister.
Just fyi, so there is no confusion.
———————————————————-
I have NO idea how I missed that. Honestly … when I 1st looked at CV’s page, I originally thought he was a boy too. But then I swear I read something on one of the MS pages that lead me to believe he was actually a she. Don’t remember what that comment was now, but I swear I saw it as pertaining to a girl somewhere because I remember I was shocked thinking originally he was a boy only to find out he was in fact a she. But now I look back on FB, and it does indeed say “he changed his profile” so you’re right. No idea how I missed that, but then again, it’s been one of those days all around. My apologies.
You know, about that red Mustang, I am wondering now about something that was posted to TH’s facebook page:
“Terri Moulton Horman: Dumping my mustang off a 10 foot ravine January ’08 while going backwards down a hill due to black ice….thank God the kids weren’t with us.”
I think she’s on her 2nd red Mustang. I wonder what caused the January 08 crash? Oh right, black ice. (I shouldn’t snark, it does happen)
On her FB fotos she posts that it is a 2007 “given to me on Mother’s Day last year”. This was posted November 1, 2008. Trivia: KH gave her new rims & tires for her birthday (3/14) this year.
Speaking of birthday, and the possibility that TH had completed some kind of alcohol counseling after her DUI… aren’t those margarita glasses (2) in front of her place setting at the b-day party? Of course, I can’t see from here if they have alcohol in them or not, but I see that others are drinking softdrinks in regular soft drink glasses.
McKenzie Mom, I don’t know the specifics about what Oregon DHS (Dept Human Services) will or will not get involved with, and I am loathe to criticize such an important agency. However, there have been several high profile, disappointing cases here over the past several years and the agency has come under fire for not tending to the serious cases that were put right in front of them. Without a complaint or some obvious reason to pursue TH, I don’t know how the H’s would come to their attention for them to even follow up on.
Aaaaand.. instantly taking it back based on the KATU story that riverpearl has just posted! From the nested July 4 KATU story:
“On Sunday KATU also received our first confirmation that Terri Horman has been the subject of a prior investigation regarding her parenting.
A source confirmed late Sunday afternoon that the Oregon Department of Human Services opened a case on Terri Horman following a 2005 arrest and charge of driving under the influence. Her biological son, who was 11 at the time, was in the car when his mother was arrested. As such, Horman also was convicted of reckless endangerment of that son.
Horman pleaded guilty in that incident. She had her license suspended for a month and a half, and served out a 12-month probation for those convictions.
We called the Department of Human Services to try to get answers from the agency’s case file. Instead, DHS workers referred us to investigators working Kyron Horman’s disappearance case.”
Mockingbirdsings #30 & 32
Thank you for your thoughts. To me they are the most fair and most understanding and least judgmental of *any* I have read since Kyron became missing. And I don’t see an unhappy child when I look at his pictures.
My father was a brilliant man and an alcoholic who hid it from my sister and me for many years. But we had the happiest, most wonderful childhood any child could ever wish for.
Our Mama stayed with Daddy for many years for our sake. It’s easy say someone should have done this or that, or left or the hundred other ideas people have for managing other people’s lives without all the details. But sometimes, like our family, one parent puts their kids’ happiness above their own.
I know what I’m trying to say but written down it doesn’t sound exactly like what’s in my heart.
MockingbirdSings says:
October 26, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Part 1 – Before we are too hard on Kaine, I’d like to contribute a few thoughts.
I have assumed all along Terri was an alcoholic (a lifetime disease) because of her driving record (DUI and other tickets), her trouble with relationships, her affairs, and the way people (ex-husbands, friends, parents) seemed to protect or go along with her even when she probably didn’t deserve it by normal standards. Since no one had mentioned current drinking, I thought she might have had some alcohol treatment after her DUI and then remained in control through the first years of her marriage to Kaine and through her pregnancy at least, but no one has said any adequate treatment actually began.
Kaine was asked in an early interview about the DUI and said he knew about it and that he thought they had worked through that. I imagine Kaine saw Terri’s DUI as an error in judgment, not that she was an alcoholic. I believe some apparently good times occurred before reaching the point of married life that Kaine is describing – we have all said that when looking at their FB pics. He probably didn’t start questioning her behavior until after Kiara was born and then attributed any problems to depression (which may or may not have been true).
My guess is that Kaine started to “wake up” when things didn’t get a lot better after she said she had meds for the depression – maybe it has only been a year and a half at the most that he has been trying to figure out what’s going on. At the same time, there were (coincidentally?) the distractions of overspending and issues with James’ skipping school and Kyron not following adult directions, plus she had an affair to hide. Nobody could really expect him to suddenly say 9 months or 12 months or 15 months ago, “My wife’s an alcoholic, I’d better take the kids and get a divorce before she kills somebody.” It’s just not that simple.
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@MockingbirdSings:
In the interest of space I’m only quoting this short snip, but your entire post brought up so many good points.
I agree that Kaine was realizing that things were not the way he thought they were and was coming to terms with that and make whatever changes were going to have to be made b/c of TH’s increasingly erratic behavior.
Unfortunately he didn’t have the luxury of very much time to realize just how far gone TH had sunk.
By the time everything added up for Kaine – his beloved Kyron is missing and he learns TH has tried to hire a hit on him.
Your point about the children of alcoholics often learning the proper role to play in the family is also so true.
James being sent away by TH – he saw and knew too much of TH’s business, so she got him out their daily life so he wouldn’t tell TH’s secrets.
I’m afraid that poor little Kyron was the scapegoat in the house. This explains so much with the stories we’ve read about Ky staying in his room/bed until someone told him to come out, the DAILY color coded reports from his teacher, etc.
Poor baby … even with whatever hell he was enduring under TH’s rule, he probably still tried to please TH and keep peace in the family.
Other thoughts …
It sounds like Kaine was around the house + working at home as often as possible, but that still allowed TH 4-5 hour periods of time where she’d say she was going to the gym/etc … but what was she really up too?
The contents of the sexts that were released today really have me wondering if perhaps TH was in someway involved in the sex/porn industry.
TH certainly didn’t sound like she was new to the sexting world. She sounds like a “working girl”.
What other unsavory activities could she have been up to in her spare time?
If so, that certainly would have invited some shady characters into the circle of people she was associating with.
One of those people could he the vampire that was invited in by TH.
God help us find Kyron. Bless Kiara and James. Bring strength to endure this nightmare to KH, DY and TY.
riverpearl says:
October 26, 2010 at 5:21 pm
“Kaine alleges now-16-year-old James left their family home four months before Kyron’s disappearance because Terri was “unable to interact with James on a healthy level and had him moved to her parents’ home in Roseburg.”
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Kaine said this in an interview before too. He said it was James and Terri who were arguing a lot. I believe that.
The DHS case was known before also although when reporters tried to find out details in July, they were referred to the MCSO.
I don’t believe Terri came home from the hospital with a drink in her hand. I suspect she’s much better than that at hiding her drinking, or she was for awhile – that’s why I’ve wondered about the postpartum depression story. Either it was true and a doctor treated her with meds or it wasn’t and she started drinking again (hopefully, she didn’t drink while pregnant, but we don’t know that either) and used the meds story as a cover – or she used both meds and alcohol.
As I tried to say before, I think Kaine needed time to put 2 and 2 together and be sure of the answer. I think anyone would. Looking back now and stating these things makes them seem like sudden revelations. Should/could he have been quicker to “get it”? I don’t know – Terri’s a really good liar, we’ve been told, and a lot was going on.
It is an incredibly sad situation no matter how you look at it.
beejay says:
October 26, 2010 at 10:59 am
Looking down farther in KH’s Affidavit, he said that LE has told him that more than one circuit court judge has determined there is probable cause to implicate TH in both Ky’s disappearance and in the MFH plot (lines 22-24 of the affidavit).
So, if only one circuit court judge were involved, I’d think he could mean the female judge who’s presiding over the GJ.
Now, KH could be trying to buttress his claims, saying “more than one.” But, IF it is true that at least two cc judges were involved, who would that be?
1) could be 2 (or more) cc judges, each of whom issued arrest search warrants. But aren’t search warrants for evidence? And they don’t name a suspected perp who is tied to that evidence? If that’s right, then LE or KH would be making that deduction based on what/where the search warrants were for.
2) could be 1 judge who is presiding over the GJ. Plus 1 (or more) cc judges who issued the search warrants.
OK. How’m I doing? Corrections? Additional possibilities..#3, #4, etc…???
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Beejay,
Additions ?
I considered possible “more than 1 circuit court Judge” as:
1 Judge that sign orig’ FAPA/RO
1 Judge from Grand Jury [sealed indictment(s)]
I Judge BEFORE Grand Jury
-AND-
remember how Staton spoke of the Warrant Strike Team had been constantly in use ? Unless they kept 1 Judge on 24-hour speed dial, it would seem that a few Judges would be involved.
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Remember how JM said moving to Roseburg was no big deal, that they (TMH & him) had moved around a lot ? How he felt sorry for her because she was not to go out ?
Now we see the boy has been the “caregiver/adult” in his relationship w/ his mother. What a heavy burden he has.
The one long term home (w/KH) he has had in his life is no more. His step-brother is gone & all roads to finding Kyron lead to his mother. What an absolute s**tty place to be in.
Why won’t his bio-dad & adoptive dad man-up & jointly have JM removed from TMH “control” & let him return to his bio-dad’s family & home ? JM seemed so happy & appeared to really be doing well.
He is being sucked into these “adult” issues & in no way deserves any of this.
I always see/think of the photo BLINK has of JM & Kyron in the leaf pile, they both look so happy.
Why won’t all these adults consider the children first ?
Blink.
Is there a post of mine still hanging out around there?
2:40 pm post still says in moderation.
Sammy says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 26, 2010 at 2:40 pm
thanks
Has anyone wondered why Terri didn’t sign her respondant papers? Maybe she wrote the note……….
just guessing Blink, please don’t yell at me.
@Idahogal: Kerry Sama Rubio? Works at Intel; her house was searched. Knows TH, DDS, KH. Don’t know who she was better friends with.
@Idahogal … you have good recovery!!
I have tried to be in the middle as much as possible. I have tried not to judge certain appearances because we all know how misleading that can be. However, reading the sext messages versus just hearing that they exist is quite another story.
At the very least, I am thoroughly disgusted. Setting aside guilt or innocence, she is totally and completely consumed with herself. She strikes me as having very little substance. Can you imagine trying to have a genuine conversation with her? Maybe she has other elements to her, but right now, I’m blinded.
I really want to know what the “money” comment was about that they would discuss later. No real details for a reason. Interesting that she would discuss possibly being untruthful concerning their visit, but was secretive about “money.”
How horrible for the innocent children to have to deal with her selfishness. Can you imagine life for James at this time? I can’t even begin to imagine. Lots of cruel people out there to boot. Not good.
moo
@Mockingbird: Your post about alcoholism was impressive. I think you nailed it. I just want to add a couple of random things: when you take anti-depressants, the positive effects are canceled out by alcohol use (which is a depressant- makes you depressed.) I think she was drunk during the texts with MC. I think her drinking controlled her mania until it the period of time when it didn’t. Narcissism is on the lower end of the same continuum as sociopath and I think Terri vacillated back and forth, depending on mood and circumstance. I think she harmed Kyron either by herself or with a helper. Watch the early pressers with the sound off and watch her body language. Look at her rapid blinking. She’s scared, but not in the same way as the others. In my opinion, the only way to learn the truth is either through the accomplice’s confession or Terri getting properly medicated, finding sobriety and wanting to make amends. Not banking on the latter.
4.Sheila says:
October 26, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Still reeling from the documents…she’s worried about not getting any & Kyron will never get to go to a school dance, graduate from highschool, get married…have kids….she is a narcisstic, disgusting human being.
@Sheila- Well said, I like that.
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IMOO, it seems she may be doing more than just drinking, would not surprise me at all if she was doing recreational drugs as well. Add all that to a disturbed mind and it’s a recipe for disaster.
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@riverpearl- I so agree, poor James, for God’s sake these poor kids. What must he be going through? God bless that boy.
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@Sammy- She DOES sound like a working girl…I wonder about that, too.
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10.anonanon says:
October 26, 2010 at 5:04 pm
@anonanon- If you’re asking about a green VW bug it was a mother with her bespectacled daughter leaving Skyline on June 5th, already vetted by LE.
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@Mockingbird- Another eloquent, thoughtful post, thank you.
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I hate that all of this adult BS happened and poor innocent Ky and the other kids got caught up in it. It makes me sick, furious and sad. I will be praying hard for Ky and those that love him tonight.
Idahogal, I believe the Kerry TH was talking about in the text is Kerry Sama Rubio. KSR testified for the Grand Jury in the summer and I have read it in more than one place that she is also one of the girls that bought a Bat Phone. KSR’s home was searched along with DD’s months ago. I’ve heard nothing else about her.
all this new info is sad. 8(
Besides the smut in TH’s sext’s that were released today …
there was also a brief interesting conversation between TH and MC concerning Mr Houze and where the big bucks were going to come from for TH to hire this power attorney.
(Below I edited part of the text released today to include only the parts about attorney fee/$350,000 that was being discussed. In between the statements below TH mentions being able to bench press her men and other sexual remarks – while MC seems to be trying to direct the conversation back to info about how she could come up with that much money) MOO
The complete sexting file that was released today is at OregonLive on PDF.
MC says: “Holy **** $350K?!?! What does that cover? And how does he expect you to pay?”
TH replies: “Money. Yeah. A discussion w/u and the girls manana. kerry has a good idea”
(this conversation is interspersed with more of TH’s sexual references between these lines)
Just a guess here – but is the “kerry” TH is referring to Kerry Sama Rubio ?
The KSR that I believe works at Intel?
The KSR who in the first couple of days after Kyron went missing was doing T-Shirt Fund Raising with MC.
If I have the facts correct – MC and KSR stopped being involved in the “help find Kyron/T shirt” fundraising after the first week.
SO … I wonder what TH means when she texts that “kerry has a good idea” about raising money for the reported $350,000 DEFENSE ATTORNEY fee?
Why would KSR be helping TH come up with idea’s on how to pay for a high priced defense attorney rather than continuing to help KH + DY with what is REALLY IMPORTANT – helping with fundraising to help find Kyron?
Who is Jason Stathom? Terri mentions him in the sext. And who is Kerry? She said Kerry had some ideas about the money for the lawyer?
riverpearl says:
October 26, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Would any of the mental health readers/posters weigh-in on these latest motions of KH & what might TMH reaction/behavior be ? Would this push her to act out “more” in some way -or – ?
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you pose a really good question! Sexual addiction is classified as an arousal addiction because its effects on the brain are similar to the effects of cocaine. Throw in some alcohol and an obsession with the internet and you have quite an appetite that needs to be feed. Add being the de facto suspect in the disappearance of one child, the removal of two others, loss of marriage, friends, reputation, lifestyle and social network … well, I’ll leave it at that.
JM is of age (at least in my state) to make his own decision as to where (which parent) he wants to live…unless of course, it is proven in court (with expert opinions testifying) as to why his decision is not in his best interest (very hard to do at his age). MOO.
So if I were James’ dad, I wouldn’t trust TMH —-if she could be capable of “unimaginable things” toward Ky, couldn’t she try something toward James, especially if there were a danger of him telling what he knew/saw in the home? Obviously, he’s old enough to speak of what he saw–or experienced. Seems to me she’s keeping him close to her—for a reason—and NOT to make her look like a good mommy. Mommy Dearest. Crrrrrreeep.
wc says:
October 26, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Mockingbirdsings #30 & 32
Thank you for your thoughts.
I know what I’m trying to say but written down it doesn’t sound exactly like what’s in my heart.
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@wc – I was very moved by your compliment and your story. Your heart is full of love and understanding – I think that’s why you are here.
No need to say more. Thank you.
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10.anonanon says:
October 26, 2010 at 5:04 pm
To anyone’s knowledge has there at any time been mention of a lime-green car in connection to this case?
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What do you mean? Who drives a lime green car?
hmmm … could MC’s appearance in waiting at the last hearing be in case he was needed to authenticate the sexting texts???
THANK YOU Skyline!!!!!!!!!!!
Skyline Parent says:
October 25, 2010 at 11:49 pm
“And there are witnesses who saw Kiara in the school that day.”
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This is something I have been wanting to know for months! It has been asked over and over and over again, and LE seemingly wants to keep that information under wraps. Do you think people were told not to mention it?
@puzzled, I too noticed the loss of control in the language. Controllers(behavioral matrix) have a tendency to be reactive when things don’t go their way. just sayin..I believe we are going to be seeing a different side of kh and it will be interesting to see how much it apply’s to the issues being discussed at the time.
@Idahogal
I have been sober 9 years, never had a DUI, hubby not an alcoholic has had a DUI, DUI’s are not always indicative of alcoholism. Bad judgment, yes. IMO People evolve, 5 years is a long time ago bringing up a dui 5 yrs prior as an example of a drinking problem is grasping. JMO
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puzzled says:
October 26, 2010 at 5:32 pm
beejay says:
October 26, 2010 at 10:19 am
Right out of the gate, in his second point of the latest Affidavit, he says:
“Until Respondent begins answering questions about the events of June 4, 2010, I cannot support any contact between her and Kiara, even if supervised.”
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Yup … this is the language that suggests to me Kaine is feeling a loss of control. Coupled with the following: “I want Respondent to tell the truth. I want Respondent to provide information to investigators that may lead to Kyron’s location.”
not that he’s wrong to have these feelings .. but demanding isn’t going to accomplish anything ..
@Jackie Bauer
says:
October 26, 2010 at 1:27 am
“…that poor little child is already going to have so much to deal with growing up. I just hope that she was NOT in the truck if/when TH hurt Kyron. ”
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It is really tragic to think what she will face growing up. Last Friday, Diane Downs bio daughter (the one she got pregnant after committing her crimes) was on Oprah -she is now 26 -and it has been quite a journey for her. The good news is that she was taken from Diane, and led a happy childhood:-)
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And you wrote: “but I sure could’ve done without the breast/masturbation info. Those texts– ick and more ick on so many levels. ”
—I was actually blushing reading that stuff. It was embarrassing. I feel so naive…but GROSS GROSS and so unimaginably, indescribably unconscionable and inappropriate (and a few other big words) given the fact that this was shy a month after Kyron went missing (and that she is married with an infant…as well as under intense scrutiny)
I believe that with her narcissistic personality (which is even more clear/evident in these texts) proves that she really does believe that she is above reproach. Sickening.
@kitjcat117 says:
October 26, 2010 at 2:48 am
“…when this kind of info emerges you have to wonder what “petitioner” did to stop it.”
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I had the same thoughts… I can think of a few rasons:
1) Dysfunctional family dynamics ebb and flow… people are in denial and hope things will get better -and they do for a while, then ultimately fall apart again.
2) Perhaps he is a classic enabler -codependent
3) Perhaps when he tried to do something, she threatened him that she would take Kiara away…?
4) Hindsight is 20/20 -we see and do things and fail to take action and change circumstances in our lives —until something bad happens. He is paying the ultimate price now for not being proactive.
I just read the texts and the filing…what can I say but WOW. MBS you may have hit the nail on the head, my dear.
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Alcohol is a CNS depressant drug that *can* produce in a new mother symptoms that might appear to be consistent with Postpartum Depression (PPD). In other words, if the doctor suspects the new mom is drinking, she must observe the mom OFF the alcohol in order to render an accurate diagnosis. If the doctor does not realize the new mom is drinking, and prescribes antidepressants and benzodiazepines (common medications for PPD), these meds can have deleterious effects for the mom and new baby.
New moms who suffer from postpartum depression generally do not have the energy, nor are they in the appropriate state of mind to venture out and start up a sexual affair (a la RS and MC). A hallmark symptom of this brain disease is the overwhelming feeling that one is a bad/deficient mother. Affected moms try their best to prove they are worthy of being a mom to their infant, but the disease drags them down. Depressed mood and/or lack of interest in pleasurable things, feelings of guilt, anxiety, insomnia/hypersomnia, appetite disturbances, LOW LIBIDO, obsessional thoughts, and very low self esteem are present to varying degrees. Preoccupation with thoughts of death and/or suicidal thoughts are possible in more serious forms, as are thoughts of harming the baby.
Since KH says she was drinking again, *IMHO* we can safely say it was only exacerbating whatever underlying pathology she possessed.
Alcohol has a disinhibiting effect on the central nervous system. In my professional opinion, I would expect someone who had just experienced the nightmare abduction/possible murder of her beloved stepson to be feeling ABJECT fear, profoud helplessness, deep sorrow, extreme anxiety, guilt, and anger. Add the disinhibiting effect of alcohol to that mindset, and I would expect to see a woman who dearly loved her stepchild have crying jags, become even more anxiou/fearful, want to talk about the missing child, and feel completely miserable. Instead, if we are to believe her texts, as DDS hands her the alcohol, TMH grabs the Nutter Butters, targets her husband’s friend, ramps up her libido, begins sexting, exposing herself, and masturbating.
Seems a most unusual way to mourn a little boy, IMO.
I would ask all of you Blinksters, do you actually think she EVER bonded with Kyron, or even with Kiara? Is she behaving like a stepmom who loved this precious little boy? All of you who are mothers, what say you???
In the least, I feel she JUST DIDN’T CARE. MOO.
Thanks for letting me vent.
12.riverpearl says:
October 26, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Would any of the mental health readers/posters weigh-in on these latest motions of KH & what might TMH reaction/behavior be ? Would this push her to act out “more” in some way -or – ? TIA
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Well, anything is possible; however, she does have an exceptional lawyer and his staff who are probably providing/have arranged for some emotional support in addition to schooling her in “How to Comport Her Behavior 101″.
Need a score card to keep track & keep straight all the names Idahogal.
Kerry Samo Rubio – house was searched & took polygraph & Intel employee.
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More information on Kerry~
from SM 04/23 “Brandi” & “ospainter”
I was looking for info and came upon this address/house. I believe it is the house that was on the news video last night. Looking up the residents, I come up with: Rubio K Sama. A Kerry Sama Rubio is listed on Terri’s facebook wall. Interesting enough to post, I thought.
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Kerry Sama Rubio We are still sending donations up to the command center, if you are interested please contact me at (deleted)
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Kerry Sama Rubio
Hey Jenny, go ahead and print, it has been OK’d there is no formal process to go through.
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Kerry Sama Rubio Hey Friends of Terri. If you live in NW Portland and can/want to donate food/drinks for the rescue works e-mail (deleted) and I can get you details on how you can donate.
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Terri wrote on Kerry Sama Rubio’s Wall.
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Kerry Sama Rubio
Visual Computing Group Senior Project Manager, Analyst at Intel Corporation
Portland, Oregon Area
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kerry-sama-rubio/6/845/654
Some rambling thoughts –
I can see very easily how Terri could work in the sex industry doing a variety of things. Madam even crossed my mind. If so, is it possible she could have been involved with it pre-Kaine?
I am trying to get to 30,000 feet, but it is very difficult. I am thinking about how she may flirt with men everywhere, including people at the school (staff, parents, contractors, city employees, etc.) and who knows where else (the gym, sex clubs, etc). I think she used her judgement that would guide her on how far she was safe to go with certain people, which may or may not lead to some sort of involvment. I really do think this is where the vampire came in. I wondered if Terri may have been involved in some phone sex for money and she may have met some clients in person. God only knows.
I actually get the feeling that her sexting with MC was perhaps played down and he was seeming to play along to see what would come out in the texting. She was so very comfortable in those communications despite the seriousness of a missing child that she took care of.
I also begin to wonder who DeDe may know in law enforcement through her Dad over the years. If DeDe could be the one responsible for introducing Terri to Rudy, then who else could DeDe have introduced Terri to? Anyone in LE? Any other positions of power? I also think about the possibility of selling drugs (maybe pot) to certain people in power where strange connections could be made.
What are Terri’s limits? If Terri is not soley or partially involved, is it possible that Kaine may also know who took and/or harmed Kyron? As gleened from the texting, it seems that Terri has a thing for scheming up money. My God. I stressed out over covering my gas bill recently — never mind $350,000. And she discussed it all so casually. Maybe she wanted to discuss selling a story. OK, I’m sorry for this one — Maybe she thought about contacting Play Boy — Hmmmm…their first squirrel? YES, I’m kidding! I think.