Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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There were two Kerris I remember, though don’t have spellings exact. The other one was Kerri Ramadori or something like that.
She is refusing a psych eval as they are worried it could be used in a criminal investigation. I would be very surprised to see a judge grant any type of visitation, even supervised, without a psych eval (with a parenting recommendation) and a substance abuse assessment, including UA. As I have said somewhere, these are standard procedures in the State of Oregon, cannot comment on other states. The former is only done by certain psychologists who use scales as well to detect lying, trying to create a favorable impression, many other things. In some cases they will interview others as well as some of these psych evals carry huge weight in some legal cases and can determine a lot of things. She should not get special treatment as many others have to do these things for child visitation or custody cases.Judges just go along with their recommendations usually. One has to be careful about diagnosis as many things can look like other things and if one is on and off substances (even off a bit), withdrawals create huge mood problems most of the time. Getting old records is also a standard procedure.But she may refuse to cooperate, then how would she get ANYTHING at all? It doesn’t seem like it will work, given what we know about the fear of TH having to say anything in public. If she refuses to do what is ordered then she would be in contempt of court. If she doesn’t act within a timely enough manner, then her parental rights could be terminated eventually. SO WHAT is she trying to hide, everyone has the sexts now.
The general thought is each person can only handle a certain amount of stress, based on their innate tendencies, plus weight of past stressors/traumas and how they were dealt with or not. Anyone will crack given enough stress (think” “fog of war” and torture). So many people either 1) go to an addiction of some type and degree or 2)go get help – from your own support system, professionals, groups, books, medication, spiritual life, structured practices of some type or 3)have a break down of some type (which for most will put them into the system, unless they off themselves)or 4) do some mixture of the above. I wish James could get help too. It’s hard to really get help if you are hiding so much as that also creates a lot of stress.
Actor, Movie Crank, ++GRAPHIC++s*x/d*g position, in public… ‘nuf said (sorry)
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@Investigator says: October 26, 2010 at 10:21 pm
Who is Jason Stathom? Terri mentions him in the sext. And who is Kerry? She said Kerry had some ideas about the money for the lawyer?
@Essay Kaye: Respectfully, Kaine’s pleading is not a new motion; rather, it is a Response (objection) to Terri’s motion to have the restraining order modified so she can have visitation with her daughter. When Terri filed her motion on an expedited basis, Kaine had to file an objection – otherwise, Terri’s motion would be considered unopposed and the Court would have little reason not to grant her motion.
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Thank you Essay Kaye for making this important point about the timing and purpose of Kaine’s pleading.
It is personally quite disturbing to read the negativity/ridicule directed at Kaine by some here, along with the assumption that he never addressed the problems (outlined in his response) prior to Kyron’s disappearance.
Considering the fact that TH talked negatively about Kaine to “anyone who would listen” (and allegedly arranged to have him murdered) indicates to me that Kaine more likely than not indeed addressed these issues with TH, and that she did not take kindly to it.
Kaine has a lot of guilt to live with, believing that the woman he left Kyron’s mother for (when their child was just an infant) is responsible for his disappearance and/or death. However, I challenge anyone in his position to have known beforehand that TH’s issues would have led to Kyron’s disappearance and/or an attempt to have him killed.
Considering what has occurred I applaud Kaine for doing anything and everything in his power (provided it is truthful and lawful) to ensure that TH will never be allowed to harm another of his children.
I want to clarify something I said.
When I stated “Is it possible that Kaine may also know who took and/or harmed Kyron?” — I meant that he may know the person but not know about the involvement.
Moo to everything.
Midwest Mom says:
October 26, 2010 at 11:30 pm
@puzzled, I too noticed the loss of control in the language. Controllers(behavioral matrix) have a tendency to be reactive when things don’t go their way. just sayin..I believe we are going to be seeing a different side of kh and it will be interesting to see how much it apply’s to the issues being discussed at the time.
~~~
Yup … you said it well. I find it interesting that Kaine said in the beginning that he wanted this to be all about finding Kyron … and this latest filing is not helping in that effort. It seemed directed at TH to humilate and degrade her … not really to find out about Kyron.
He will get the divorce .. but now he has taken ownership of baby … and is attempting to exorcise TH from baby’s life … the last remaining piece of Terri’s former life.
riverpearl says:
October 26, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Would any of the mental health readers/posters weigh-in on these latest motions of KH & what might TMH reaction/behavior be ? Would this push her to act out “more” in some way -or – ?
I think at this point Terri is being monitored by attorney Houze. I believe he has warned her in strong language to keep herself in check and to stay out of sight and under the radar. She might be controlling her drinking and might be taking her meds at present to regain control of her behavior. I think her psycho acting out is done for now and she would like to move on. I think she spends her time restless and resentful that she can’t get on with her life and is pissed that she’s broke. I don’t see her as a danger to others right now, as long as she is kept away from Kiara. Honestly, I’m not surprised at this latest info- we’ve been told repeatedly she initiated graphic sexting with MC right after Ky’s disappearance and we know she’s unstable and drinks. I’m kind of surprised by all the stunned reactions. This is stuff we’ve known about for a long time. I doubt Kaine wants to have to have this salacious trash talk be in the public eye but he has no choice if he wants to protect himself and his daughter.
Question for sleuths: If the media was not publishing and linking these documents, how would we, as public be able to access that information online ourselves?
And for those questioning as to whether or not KH is making this up -I doubt it. It is a sworn affidavit. No way he is going to lie under oath.
And, I am hoping that LEA CONNER or some other legal mind can explain to me how the deposition would have gone down for his response to her motion. Who does the deposing? His lawyer? Do they ask him pointed questions, or does he just start talking? TIA
I’m confused re: the language in the motion. Wouldn’t that have all been drafted by KHs attorney and not be reflective of his mental state (or his losing control) but of the tack his attorney, and probably the DA, thought was the best next move and the correct tone to elicit the desired response? I would think that he told the story, but the attorney drafted the document in her manner? True or no?
I must add that I know of several functional alcoholics, impressively successful people in the professional arena, but alcoholics nonetheless, and somehow the spouse functions and makes it work. Would I do it? Nope, but I do know how it can happen, and I certainly know what it is like to think that it’s just a bad patch in the relationship only to find out later that the bad part was only the tip of the iceberg. JMoooooo
There’s no question that TH has a current alcohol problem per Kaine’s report. DHS in Oregon being involved in a DUII with a child in car is again SOP, as is treatment being required for all DUIIs; relapse is common enough. Besides the child endangerment, she had a high BAC (I think it was .17) as well, not just over the line, and this is a cause for concern. And we saw the photos of her drinking at the Mex restaurant and DDS is bringing her a drink in the texts, so…. doesn’t look good. Yes, as Dr. Drew (Pinsky) used to say when he had the phone calls in on TV show and people started talking about all these problems in a family, “excuse me, but are you (or someone) an addict”? The craziness of the dysfunctions is a big clue.
44.Midwest Mom says:
October 26, 2010 at 11:30 pm
@Idahogal
I have been sober 9 years, never had a DUI, hubby not an alcoholic has had a DUI, DUI’s are not always indicative of alcoholism. Bad judgment, yes. IMO People evolve, 5 years is a long time ago bringing up a dui 5 yrs prior as an example of a drinking problem is grasping. JMO
@Midwest Mom- I never had a DUI or DWI or anything else either. Just saying the child endangerment DUI case 5 years ago should have been a wake up call. She won’t stop until she decides she wants to, which may never happen, you know what I’m saying. IMO there are emotional problems here and the alcohol intensifies everything, which is very dangerous in her case. I would not be surprised if there are other addictions, it is a disease with a set pattern. An addict is an addict, period. IMOO, for some people it always has to be something.
@beejay says:
October 26, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Can someone explain to me where KH got the MC/TH sexting records?
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Behind on my reading, but “I would imagine” (I hate it when people say that, but I am saying it anyway) that if his name is on the cell phone bill, then he can phone the company and get records personally, right? Seems reasonable in this day and age and “I would imagine” that parents do this frequently to monitor their kid’s cell phones…? idk
@beejay says:
October 26, 2010 at 5:53 pm
Did anyone ever see a further explanation of why Ky was born prematurely and why DY was in premature labor? All I’ve found was where DY said:
“after being in premature labor for one and a half months the doctor finally gave us the okay when he was 3 weeks early. After 13 hours of labor he was born into this world and the very first thing he did was shoot a stream of pee at the nurse that delivered him and got it right in the oxygen mask.”
http://www.facebook.com/notes/missing-kyron-horman/kyrons-birth/145783998792366
================
Desiree to mu recollection has never expanded on why pre-term labor &/ or pre-mature birth. She also does not explains further on the Dateline show when she talks about pregnancy/ birth.
I just felt it was due to KH cheating on her, since he “hooked-up” w/ TMH in June. When DY would of been 5 months & not the 8 months when she found out. The stress of that whole situation would of been an extra stressor but it may have been her kidney problems.
Blink,
text=ick! soo that is what sexting is… again…ick
MC’s sexting was G “rated” and TH’s “x” rated.. and from my understanding from the text was that it was a clean phone correct? meaning bat phone?
This copy of texting came from MC phone only. Which means unless LE has that phone, “THE DISPOSABLE” phone, which they can VERIFY that TH even knew about, Then WE the PUBLIC DO not know who was on the otherside of the “sexting” correct.
If that is the case and the only benefit these texts would make in the custody case would be in favor of KH by discrediting TH then.. I think someone is being very sneaky fox.
But then what would that mean regarding LS and the similar sexing?
I thought the very very long text about telling the truth, and not lying to the lawyer, was very creative.
@ Madilu says:
October 26, 2010 at 11:48 pm
@kitjcat117 says:
October 26, 2010 at 2:48 am
“…when this kind of info emerges you have to wonder what “petitioner” did to stop it.”
*****************************************
I had the same thoughts… I can think of a few rasons:
1) Dysfunctional family dynamics ebb and flow… people are in denial and hope things will get better -and they do for a while, then ultimately fall apart again.
2) Perhaps he is a classic enabler -codependent
3) Perhaps when he tried to do something, she threatened him that she would take Kiara away…?
4) Hindsight is 20/20 -we see and do things and fail to take action and change circumstances in our lives —until something bad happens. He is paying the ultimate price now for not being proactive.
___________________________________
Alcoholic’s are very good manipulators, liars & throwing their behavior back onto the person who is questioning them ie.”Look what YOU made me do…If YOU had kept your mouth shut…” Well, y’all get the point. It is a cycle. IF she was mixing anti-depressive drugs w/ booze-stand back. That is a cocktail of off the wall behavior waiting to happen, no stirring required.
Whatever “it” was that made KH “hook-up” w/TMH, he had knowledge of her “drinking” prior to their 2007 marriage.It very well could of been the free wheeling party girl he wanted. I have no clue to his drinking &/ or partying ways but by the 1 photo BLINK has up of KH’s hand on TMH ‘chest’ (in a bar maybe ?) neither of them were shrinking violets.
First-time offenders have driven drunk ^^87 TIMES^^ BEFORE they’re arrested. Many first-time offenders usually have many moving violations.(gee, where have I seen a record like that ?)
Alcoholic’s are tricksters, that think they are smarter than any one, have a wasteland of job failures (because the boss has it out for them), & can make do on the “backs” of others who have a job (spot me a $20, $40, $50 or you don’t have change-I’ll take it all & bring you back change. What change-you don’t need it-you have a job), home (a couch to sleep on or a basement to take over), car (to borrow since they have a suspended DL). The list goes on and on. Yes, everyone always say how charming & are the life of a party/gathering. With every morning after & there is always a morning after the alcoholic will PROMISE the sky & the moon -OR- simply act like nothing has happen.
Have had my share of alcoholic’s & there zero responsibilities BS w/ driving, w/life. I have seen to many of the broken bodies of people because of some alcoholic’s behavior. They’ll ditch their kids on babysitter’s, neighbors & family. Look @ the drunk father last week who was arrested/put in jail for public disorder or something & had no knowledge the NEXT DAY WHERE he had left his toddler son. His son was NOT w/him when he was arrested. The child was found, strapped into his car seat, in a parking garage 25+ HOURS LATER.
Oh, the last jack a** alcoholic that hit us in our car ( yes, more than 1) blew a breathalyzer HOURS LATER of MORE THAN 3 TIMES the LIMIT.
Many people just do NOT want to rock the boat w/ an alcoholic because things might get WORSE.
JMHO
GraceintheHills-
To your question-NO.
Each child in her life was a possession to hold up for the ‘perfect mom’ title, nothing more.
I believe TMH is deep in her addiction/ mental disturbance/health behavior cycle. It appears she has been in that cycle for MANY YEARS. This is not ‘something’ you get ‘over’ w/a good night’s sleep. Her bio-children were a ‘source’ of money for her. Does anyone believe she sent EITHER her parents or her 1st husband the child support payment she receives from hubby #2 when JM moved in w/them ?
JMHO
________________________
@GraceintheHills says:
October 26, 2010 at 11:55 pm
I would ask all of you Blinksters, do you actually think she EVER bonded with Kyron, or even with Kiara? Is she behaving like a stepmom who loved this precious little boy? All of you who are mothers, what say you???
In the least, I feel she JUST DIDN’T CARE. MOO.
@Midwest Mom says:
October 27, 2010 at 1:51 am
Wouldn’t the photos she sent to MC (KH only mentions 2 of the photos, but there may well have been more) show who was on the other side of the phone? DS and TMH may both be redheads, but I am guessing their other identifying ‘bits’ would look a slight bit different.
Part of me believes that TMH wasn’t even pushing for visitation, but that Houze, through Bunch, is using it to force KH and the DA to show their hand.
I just wish this would all come to an end. Kyron deserves it. Kiara, JM and QMc deserve it and TY, DY and KH deserve it. Let’s hope the Red Eyed Tree Frog Lover comes home soon.
Idahogal says:
40.Cbickel says: October 26, 2010 at 6:22 am
(snipped) As for the sexting…all I can say is this woman needs some serious help, if it’s true. Personally I don’t believe anything ANY of them say anymore.
@CBickel- This was submitted under penalty of perjury. Do you think KH and his attorney made it all up? If so, please elaborate on how you think that would work out for them
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Idahogal, I think my frustration was showing when I inserted that “if it’s true” part in the above sentence. I, like many others, am growing weary of the “he said she said” stuff….actually it’s more like “he said, then he said something different” stuff.
I don’t blame KH for wanting a divorce, I don’t even blame him for using the sexting text against TH in a divorce court if that’s what he wants to do, what I don’t understand is why he thinks this is going to keep the focus on Kyron.
That is what I was thinking when it dawned on me this must be something planned by LE and KH….or maybe KH alone, to make TH talk. Surely to God his lawyer approached TH’s lawyer before he made this public and offered to keep this quiet if she would tell everything she knows about what happened to poor Kyron. I mean after all, that’s what he REALLY wants right…to have his son back, and to know what happened to him.
He knows by now he’s gonna get his divorce, he should also know by now he’s gonna retain custody of his daughter, therefore there would be no reason to purposely throw those sexting texts out there for her older son and the public to see unless TH refused to co-operate….right?
To those of you that think I’m KH bashing…I’m not. I could care less about him or his divorce, TH sexting with MC or DY’s kidney failure, what I want is to find Kyron
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
After reading those sexts, I can now easily imagine Terri throwing the doors wide open, and rolling out the red carpet for Happy Hour with Vampires on Parade.
@beejay says:
October 26, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Can someone explain to me where KH got the MC/TH sexting records?
@beejay- Page 5 of Affidavit of Petitioner:
17. Law enforcement has provided, to me and Respondent’s attorney, records of text messages between Respondent and Michael Cook.
Taken from KOIN link to court docs:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/a/4/6/a466434a-e631-4fef-96c5-8162118cb371/petition.pdf
Someone asked who Jason Statham is. Well the only one I’m able to find in Portland, Oregon is an action film actor. He also works out alot. Is there a connection here? Some people seem to really like him while someone else referred to him as a pedo.
Is it possible he is somehow helping out here with the 350K? He would certainly have the funds to do so. Just because he is an actor doesn’t make him a nice honorable person.
I will see what else I can find on the net. There is lots all you have to do is search google with Jason Stathom/Statham Portland Oregon and pages come up on this guy.
14.riverpearl says:
October 27, 2010 at 2:08 am
(Snipped)
“Alcoholic’s are very good manipulators, liars & throwing their behavior back onto the person who is questioning” and “Alcoholic’s are tricksters, that think they are smarter than any one, have a wasteland of job failures”
@riverpearl- With all due respect, I would rephrase this to say “some alcoholics”, because not all of us/them have these behaviors. I do not have a wasteland of failed jobs, was never a trickster, NEVER drove drunk, etc. You cannot lump everyone into one category of behavior(s). Alcohol affects people in different ways, as in a “happy drunk”, “mean drunk”, “functional drunk”, etc,. A lot of the effect is based on the individual’s personality, mental state, and so forth.
I am so disgusted with the details of this latest revelation I cannot even see straight! Yes, we knew they existed, but they are far worse than I imagined and I felt very awkward (to say the least) just reading them! Even if we take the obvious question off the table concerning whether or not she was involved in making Kyron disappear, I find this completely repulsive…..while Kyron’s other parents were living in constant fear of what had happened to him, desperately searching for answers, most likely unable to eat or sleep well, this poor excuse for a human being was carrying on like this…..with lewd conversations and smut based behavior with a man whom she hardly knew….Sorry, but anyone with priorities THAT skewed is a very bad person all the way down in the core of their soul…..and I put that as nicely as I possibly could.
Forgot to add-Even if she didn’t particularly care for Kyron, this behavior is happening a mere 4 days after Kaine has left the home with Kiara and made it clear that he does not plan to return anytime soon. Even THAT does not seem to phase her……
@melissab: I always pay attention to how people without professional knowledge about things react. A friend of mine, when she first saw Ky’s photo, said, “Oh, is he a little retarded?”
I guess I’m assuming you have some expertise in infant syndromes, fetal development, etc. If so, I just want to tell you that you and Bearlythere are not alone. My recent post here was intended as a clue, rather than an inquiry, since we’re all very aware of the hazard of civil lawsuits here.
@MockingbirdSings: You asked what I would have wanted KH to do? Well, in my rational moments I know that people pretty much do the best they can do at the time. I’d include all the family members in that.
As to a lot of the other discussion here about co-dependency, just something to ponder is if that is the case with KH, then perhaps this is a pattern in his relationships. Not his first go round.
I am hoping Blink will move us along from all this emotionality and back to where we left off in the search for information about Ky. Because:
#1: I don’t believe it’s going to come out of the current divorce filings.
#2: Relatedly, I don’t believe that TH is suddenly going to spew out what she thinks (or, as some believe, “knows”) about Ky’s fate and/or current location.
#3: I don’t believe we’re going to find it in anybody’s va-jay-jay (did I spell that right, cbickel???)
Moving along…
Researching.
Googled: “at a crossroads in your life” + kyron horman
(Because I remember that statement being made by some public figure in this case.)
Googled: at a crossroads + substance abuse treatment
(Because we’ve been discussing substance abuse.)The language of alcohol and substance abuse treatment is informative reading.
GraceintheHills, I don’t think TH “bonded” with anyone, really. Even Kaine, to an extent. She seems to use people, men, kids, friends, parents, whoever….however she wants and for as long as she wants. When they aren’t useful to her, they are just in the way, a hassle or something that needs to be gone. I really see her that way. Despicable doesn’t even describe her.
Jason Statham: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005458/bio
)
I really liked him in Italian Job with Mark Wahlberg (I liked Mark more
I’m going to go with a “NO” vote re: any involvement between him & TH.
And to answer the ? “did TH ever bond with Kyron?”, my answer is/was/has been since July: NO. Kyron was a pawn she used to get to KH, someone she pretended to love in order to win KH over. She no longer needed Kyron, and she no longer wanted him. JMoo
“SIGH” regarding the sworn affidavit
It appears the KH has changed his story over time and I think it is important to point out what he has said and what he is now saying. We need to find Kyron. I am putting a link at bottom of post.July 27, 2010. This one interview with KH and DH clarify’s a lot of the questions. I will paraphrase but recommended everyone listen to it themselves. After listening to it, I am questioning where all the statements of TH’s behavior is coming from nothing seems to stand out as odd.
TH timeline for July 4.(end of auto)
**LE keeps the timeline tight, DY explains that there is a reason for that. That LE has not told them everything that LE knows about TH whereabouts for that day.**
TH Alcoholism and substance abuse.
***from KH, TH drank about 4-5 months PRIOR to the DUI,passed out asleep,(15:42)since then KH points out “pure speculation” on his part and “NO FACTS” he heard from some friends they had stayed with that their alcohol levels were down after KH and TH left.***
****BEFORE weight lifting competition TH was taking more over the counter meds than an average person***
TH postpartum depression
****DY clarify’s “it is not a diagnosis” KH she was on some medication but he didn’t know what kind ****
JAMES and butting heads with KH vs TH
****Kaine two men will but heads, something about not having 16 year old filter, them butting heads is normal, TH butting heads with 16 yr old not normal ???” DY lends her opinion of KH parenting***
How KH and TH met
****TH account of what happened around that time is lies, DY and TH account of what happened WILL NOT be discussed, but have their own “interpretations” on what happened**
THE WHITE TRUCK,
**** DY explains that TH had viewed the projects the night before, and that TH was to pick it up that day, but TH DID NOT know what time that she was to pick it up and would let DY know later that day**
The posting of the pics of facebook
**** DY said that it was because she was e-mailing DY at 1:20 pm and a couple of other things**
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/terri_hormans_emails_to_kyron.html
To alwayssunday says: October 27, 2010 at 10:15 am: Your post said everything I was thinking after reading those text messages!! They were disgusting, especially considering the other circumstances taking place at the same time, as you said while Kyron’s parents were suffering she was acting like this. Unbelievable.
As a Dad I can testify that there is nothing in this world, no amount of torture, not one weapon that can be used on my person, that would cause me near the pain of losing any of my children. So if someone hated me enough to cause me the deepest hurt, it would be through my kids. The only topper would be if I had been able to prevent such harm. Lord, I know you are with young Kyron.
Good afternoon deareast Blink.
Just had to chime in here about KH’s response and the sexting.
To my thinking, KH is doing what he needs to do..respond to Terri’s request for visitation. He isn’t spreading smut, nor family secrets. If she didn’t want to read this in a newspaper she shouldn’t have put Kyron and his siblings at risk. It’s just that simple…if you don’t want to be caught with your pants down..don’t take’em down.
As far as her being an alcoholic..and some here are implying Kaine knew and didn’t do enough…he did what he could in the situation.
He has stated before, she lead him to believe she was getting counseling, that they were getting counseling together, that she was on meds. He probably was not on her medical release with her agreement with the doctor to be told anything..period. HEPA laws are very exact about doctors not releasing info, even to spouses, if the patient requests that action. I doubt Terri wanted anything shared with KH.
He also stated that she lost more then 60 lbs in a few months, that she abused alcohol, and now we see for ourselves she had a sexual addiction. You cannot cure an addict of anything they don’t want to be cured of..and it appears T liked her drugs, alcohol and sex…more then she loved her family.
Finally, this woman is the person who did not put Kiara, Kyron or her husband first. She put her primal needs first…there would have been descernable bond with Kiara or Kyron..and a ruptured bond with J. KH says he came home early 3 to 5 days per week to take care of the children.
I think he did what he could..to blame him for the immature and filthy behavior Terri exhibited is rediculous. Terri is an adult and needs to be held accountable for her behavior…and my friends I think we have only seen the G rated portion of that behavior…there will be much worse exposed. Remember she let the vampire in and throughly enjoyed herself.
Kaine Says…
snip..
Respondent has historical problems with the abuse of alcohol, which have impaired her functioning since Kiara’s birth. Respondent was convicted for driving while under the influence of alcohol and child endangerment in 2005. Her son ##### was in the car with her when she was arrested. That was not an isolated incident of alcohol abuse. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc… several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes
But at first he said…….
by Frank Mungeam
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Updated Friday, Jul 16 at 1:56 PM
snip…
In his response to questions from KGW, Kaine acknowledged that people have commented about ‘how could he marry a woman like this’ and how could he ‘not see this coming.’
In response, he wrote: ”Terri was a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did.”
“Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now,” added Kaine Horman.
“There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen.”
“She recently got her teaching license re-instated and has been applying for teaching positions so even the state of Oregon didn’t see this coming,” wrote Kaine Horman.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Kaine says…….
snip…
Respondent’s alcoholism, coupled with depression issues, significantly affected the manner in which she cared for Kiara and greatly affected Kiara’s attachment to her. Respondent did not maintain consistent routines for Kiara in her daily activities or sleep patterns. It was common to find Kiara up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol. As a result, Kiara was never well rested, she was fussy and upset frequently during each day, and her mood was abnormal for her age.
But at first he said…….
Kaine Horman: Kyron’s Stepmom Suffered Post-Partum Depression
11:05 PM July 8th, 2010 by James Pitkin
snip
Kaine Horman filed for divorce and a restraining order on June 28 citing alleged plans by Terri Moulton Horman to have him killed. He told WW the illness came on after the birth of their daughter Kiara 19 months ago and lasted well over a year.
“As far as I’m concerned, probably up until a month or two before Kyron was gone — and then she could have been hiding it at that point,” Kaine Horman said.
He said the illness manifested in rapid mood swings.
“It wasn’t anything that was overly violent in nature,” Horman said. “It was just really erratic types of swings, from being very emotional to suddenly being very frustrated.”
Horman said he’s not sure what type of medication his wife was on or when she stopped taking it.
“I was just supposed to watch her closely for a six-month period, which I did do,” he said. “And after the six months, things seemed to be OK.”
——————————————————————————–
I think Kaine’s statements about TH’s alcohol problems will be difficult to prove (which he probably knows this full well), unless he has pictures, friends to back him up, or did nightly blood alcohol level tests on TH.
Too bad he did not document her alleged alcohol addiction thru counseling or something. I don’t believe that a DUI 5 years ago would go to prove that TH is an alcoholic today.
As for the Sexting texting verbiage. Since TH did the texting from a pre paid clear phone, and the texts in question were taken from Michael Cooks phone, there may be no proof of who was holding the pre paid phone when the texts were sent. I’m not saying i don’t think Terri sent those texts, but Terri’s lawyers might ask about the authenticity of those texts. It would be interesting to know if LE has possession of the clear/prepaid phone used to send the texts to MC.
I think that these latest accusations by Kaine in the PETITIONER’S AFFIDAVIT are meant to goad TH into speaking up in her behalf, and therefor opening herself up to further questioning about the events of june 4.
BTW. Did anyone else notice that there were no 4 letter words in the texting/sexting document. Good thing since that kind of verbiage would have had to have been omitted in press releases. JMO
@Jackie Bauer
says:
October 27, 2010 at 12:53 am
“I’m confused re: the language in the motion. Wouldn’t that have all been drafted by KHs attorney and not be reflective of his mental state (or his losing control) but of the tack his attorney, and probably the DA, thought was the best next move and the correct tone to elicit the desired response? I would think that he told the story, but the attorney drafted the document in her manner? True or no?”
Thank you, Jackie, that is what I wanted to post about this morning. I read a lot of people putting emotions on this action (or different ones by TH) as if these individuals are still allowed to make these decisions on their own, without interference. I’m sure Ms Rackner would not let KH file this document on his own, and I’m sure she would not be swayed by any emotional outburst he had (stamping his feet for TH to give out the info she has etc)… that is WHY one hires a lawyer.. to control the client and act in the best interests of *the case*.
I read every one of these filings as being highly supervised, not just for legal content but to create a desired result. KH could have successfully contested without including some of this information, but he didn’t. We should be looking at the puppetmaster(s) and not just who’s name is on the front page.
Cbickel gets it: “He knows by now he’s gonna get his divorce, he should also know by now he’s gonna retain custody of his daughter, therefore there would be no reason to purposely throw those sexting texts out there for her older son and the public to see unless TH refused to co-operate….right?”
———-
Whaazupwitchu says: October 27, 2010 at 12:38 am says “SO WHAT is she trying to hide, everyone has the sexts now.
The general thought is each person can only handle a certain amount of stress, ”
I wonder how much that stress is related to what I just wrote… AND, WTH could be SO bad that TH would take this sort of personal ‘abuse’ (insult/shame/etc) and not talk?
Dear beejay.. you are so clever, I love the way your mind works. Your last post about research reinforces my first point today.. that every message we have read from any of the key players has been designed for maximum effect. Current filing included.
You know, about the premature birth, I did not catch that info before. It actually changes the timeline of KH moving out (for me) and I wonder if he was present for the birth at all. Not that it matters to the task at hand. Love to Kyron!
FWIW, I see that Kerry S-R is friends with DDS on FB (yes, DDS still has an FB page and profile), KH is not on her friend’s list, so safe to assume she was closer to TH. Since KSR has been B4 grand jury I have to wonder what she was asked, and whether she gave answers or if she pleaded the 5th. I am now very curious about her relationships with KH, TH and DDS, and what her idea was about getting the $350K for TH. I must have arrived at BOC after all of you were checking into her? Just specualtion, IMOO, and if this is just a “dead horse” that everyone here has vetted just let me know.
It seems that TH’s SMO is using sex to manipulate and gain favors with men and possibly women as well.. I cannot just brush off this sexting stuff because IMHO it is important. It is a window into TH’s mindset, behavior patterns, and it may point towards activities that she participated in to make money that KH would not be aware of. Further, it may also point towards the type of people or vampires that she became involved with. This whole texting issue is a show of blatant sexual behavior, narcissism and disregard for others. It seems the general consensus here is that Ky’s abduction was sexually motivated, therefore I have to consider connecting some dots here. The implications that this behavior might be tied to Ky’s abduction are sickening, but I cannot ignore them. All of this is, of course, IMOO.
Further, I wonder if TH had met someone that told her “My family makes $50 mil a year, I have such and such connections, etc., etc.,”, would she pursue that person? If so, could/would that person have ultimately become involved in what happened to Ky? Of course I may be reaching, stretching, all in an attempt to figure out what happened to Ky and whom was involved. There are some people that have come to light in this case that set my radar on high alert. I see at least two narcissistic people here, perhaps more, that may have bonded and perhaps are involved in some really ugly activities. Again, all just speculation on my part, thinking out loud, hoping for some input from others, IMOO, etc., ad nauseum.
Was just thinking about TH’s reaction to the sexting being public knowledge. If TH is the kind of master manipulator we conjure her up to be then her ego is being fed and she’s gloating from the thought that some random guy is getting turned on by reading her smut.
She could always tell her parents DD was the one sexting from TH’s phone.
As an avid movie watcher, I knew immediately who she meant by Jason Statham. He’s a British actor that appears in very violent movies. I think he’s handsome, but isn’t on my “list”.
Kitjcat117:
Terri could tell her parents that DeDe was the one doing the sexting but they would have to be in deep denial to believe it. Why would DeDe be upset about Kaine not knowing what Kiara’s favorite blanket/toys are? Can you imagine her parent’s horror? My heart goes out to Kaine, Desiree, Tony, James, Quinn and Kiara. My heart breaks for Kyron.
Ok, I have never posted before…but I do NOT quite get it. I do not live anywhere close to Oregon and do not know the community or anyone involved. I started following this story when I say Kyron’s sweet picture (He reminded me of my son at that age, who is now 14 and so handsomely maturing). I admit I do not know all the details but I am concerned that it isn’t what it appears to be… I feel that several energies are playing into the focus being on Terri…Yet, I am just not feeling it. First, LE zoned in on Terri immediately for not passing LDT. That does not mean she was lying about his disappearance. Only that she was lying. To hide her behaviors in this messed up world she had created? …because of an unhappy marriage? The pictures portray to me a mother and yes she was Kyron’s main caregiver that worked very hard at meeting his needs (as if he were her own). He does not look unhappy or abused in photos. I do not see her as a drunk (yes, she got a DUI with James in the car… Bad judgment but not a drunk). I think there are a lot of mothers and fathers in this world that have made this judgment call and didn’t get caught. Yes, she drank but was very hands-on in caring for her kids. You do not see that kind of organization and interest in someone who gets smashed every night. So does LE really have anything other than a statement from an illegal jilted lover that she wanted her husband dead? If that was the case, I think there would have already been charges for that. Instead we have nothing but a picture being painted by 1)Kaine, who in my opinion is far from what he appears to be. I do not see him as being a hands-on parent and I do believe that he was very controlling and that being married to him was degrading. Truthfully, he is the one with the narcissistic behavior. She was acting out for some reason. Now, his actions show that he has an ax to grind, yet it is not about Kyron. 2)Desiree. Sorry, don’t know how as mother she could allow another woman to raise her Kyron while she played every-other-weekend mom. Sorry I don’t believe her priorities were quite in place either. And again, another ax to grind with Terri. … Stole the husband away. 3)Law Enforcement. Must find easy solution…We have a safe community and the parents cannot phantom the thought that a child could disappear from right underneath our noses unless it was a parent or someone close to the child being responsible. We all know that we have some very calibrated perverts in this world that will lift children right underneath our noses. Where is the evidence? All I see is a slander job by Kaine and Desiree. If it looked to me that I was been pointed out as the wicked stepmother…you better believe I would disappear behind a lawyer. Believe me, I am not saying that Terri is not a true train wreck and far from your ideal citizen and mother. But is she a Cold blood killer? Kidnapper? Capable of planning and carrying this major crime with the help of friends? I just do not see it. And yes, this had to have been planned. How would this whole thing benefit her? I think if she wanted rid of Kyron, it would have been just as easy to send him to live with his bio-mother. Instead, I see Terri as a very insecure woman desperately looking for validation from someone or anyone….even if it is through sex. It appears that is the only quality she feels she has to work with. Yes, she is manipulative! I do believe that through her pursuit of happiness outside her marriage that she could have put Kyron in harm’s way. This LS dude just does not iron out. Yet, this is who LE are believing. I do not see her to be part of the planning and crime? Did she just think that a child missing (at school) would not be a big deal. With all the dirty laundry she has, I do believe that she would know that it would all come out….her life investigated with no stone unturned. Poor Kyron, with this mess being the sideshow…I doubt he will ever be found.
Not to mention making reference to DeDe coming over and being present. Add to that DeDe didn’t hire Houze, Terri did.
dahogal says:
October 27, 2010 at 12:43 pm
It seems that TH’s SMO is using sex to manipulate and gain favors with men and possibly women as well.. I cannot just brush off this sexting stuff because IMHO it is important. It is a window into TH’s mindset, behavior patterns, and it may point towards activities that she participated in to make money that KH would not be aware of. Further, it may also point towards the type of people or vampires that she became involved with. This whole texting issue is a show of blatant sexual behavior, narcissism and disregard for others. It seems the general consensus here is that Ky’s abduction was sexually motivated, therefore I have to consider connecting some dots here. The implications that this behavior might be tied to Ky’s abduction are sickening, but I cannot ignore them. All of this is, of course, IMOO.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
While I think that TH’s sexting was pretty disgusting. I think that even teenagers sext each other, and it does not mean that they are sex addicts, psychologically impaired, or about to become employed by the sex industry.
@beejay
I agree I also wish Blink would say a few words
to get back to Kyron
the drinking and sexting just gets to me
and MC’s wife wrote alot of stuff on him
I don’t think it is still on line
DeDe is talking thro her cousin and Flymonkey
maybe or maybe not
but all this does not lead to Kyron
I will weigh in on Kyron next week. Pressing developments in another case, but I am here.
B
This is the last comment I will leave about this whole alcohol/sexting stuff in Kaine’s AFFIDAVIT. In as much as Kyron was TH’s stepson of 7 years, James was Kaine’s stepson of 7 years. I have read that james looked up to Kaine as a father. I think adding the sexting text to an AFFIDAVIT that Kaine knew would be available for perusal by anyone with an internet connection, including James, any of his friends, and teachers (not to mention strangers) shows that Kaine has a total disregard for his stepson’s welfare (so much for Kaines bonding to his stepson) . JMO
OK, I guess I might as well chime in about what we all seem to know about alcoholics.
In the mid 1970s, first starting out working as a clinician in a big-city hospital, I got a real quick education in how high-functioning an alcoholic can be. One day, at staffing, an alcoholic commercial airline pilot (BIG airline, not to be named here) was being reviewed to design a treatment plan which would allow him to safely detox, stay on the job, and retain his pilot’s license. We accomplished that.
Those pilots work so many hours/days, then a mandated time off. He was a binge drinker who only drank during his off time. Wife was happy with the life his income provided; he was never violent or disagreeable; she was a light social drinker. Kids seemed to do well so far as we knew (parents chose not to bring family in for assessment.)
*************
@idahogal: tx for the source of MC texts going to KH. I read it; filed it in “don’t try to remember” brain file.
A lot of us have mentioned what we would do to get information out of Terri if it was our child that was missing. Nothing short of water boarding or beating the crap out of her. If it is YOUR child, to what extent would you go? I think Kaine is doing all he can short of other methods mentioned here. She would need a body guard if it were my child or grandchild.
As far as Kaine and Desiree kind of backing off from each other…I think that one or the other or both try to get in the public eye to keep Kyron’s case alive. If there is a little division I think it is because Kaine see’s that Kyron may no longer be alive and Desiree will not give up the hope that he is.
This is all my opinion.
Prayers for Kyron, his 2 brothers, his sister, family and all of us that love him.
I have to wonder…about now…does Mr. Houze think $350,000 is enough? Also..if I were able to give him any advise I would tell him to not be left in a room with Terri.
@Idahogal 10.anonanon says:
October 26, 2010 at 5:04 pm
@anonanon- If you’re asking about a green VW bug it was a mother with her bespectacled daughter leaving Skyline on June 5th, already vetted by LE
*****
No, brighter than VW green. a compact, not near Skyline.
evie says:
October 27, 2010 at 12:37 pm
I read every one of these filings as being highly supervised, not just for legal content but to create a desired result. KH could have successfully contested without including some of this information, but he didn’t.
~~~
I don’t take issue with the filing or the contents of the affidavit.. i.e. sexting .. however, these documents were not released by the courts, could not have been released by the attorneys and would not be released by LE .. that leaves Kaine as being the one making these documents a part of the public domain. The purpose for filing these exhibits is part of the divorce proceedings … but are not necessary to the public discussion. Speculation on these very topics has already been rampant … these documents, without response from defendant, are just fodder for the masses.
LinTN says:
October 27, 2010 at 1:41 pm
1)Kaine, who in my opinion is far from what he appears to be. I do not see him as being a hands-on parent and I do believe that he was very controlling and that being married to him was degrading. Truthfully, he is the one with the narcissistic behavior. She was acting out for some reason. Now, his actions show that he has an ax to grind, yet it is not about Kyron.
~~~
yippers … I’ve been holding back out of respect .. but now that KH is putting himself in the arena.. his stuff is gonna hit the fan as well.. thud … other shoe hitting the floor.
@cd says:
October 27, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Idahogal says:October 27, 2010 at 12:43 pm
It seems that TH’s SMO is using sex to manipulate and gain favors with men and possibly women as well.. I cannot just brush off this sexting stuff because IMHO it is important. It is a window into TH’s mindset, behavior patterns, and it may point towards activities that she participated in to make money that KH would not be aware of. Further, it may also point towards the type of people or vampires that she became involved with. This whole texting issue is a show of blatant sexual behavior, narcissism and disregard for others. It seems the general consensus here is that Ky’s abduction was sexually motivated, therefore I have to consider connecting some dots here. The implications that this behavior might be tied to Ky’s abduction are sickening, but I cannot ignore them. All of this is, of course, IMOO.
_____________________________________________________________________
While I think that TH’s sexting was pretty disgusting. I think that even teenagers sext each other, and it does not mean that they are sex addicts, psychologically impaired, or about to become employed by the sex industry.
–> cd, I agree with you and started to post about that earlier. I’m no expert about sexting & don’t partake myself, but I’m about TH’s age and I’m certainly aware of it. I personally don’t think that what she wrote was all *that* spicy.. in terms of ‘professionally’ spicy.
BUT
I just read this post on WS from user Shadowboy that made me go ‘huh?!’: “In re-reading yesterday’s filing, I noticed this:
“16. As noted above, I obtained a restraining order on June 28, 2010. Respondent’s behavior following her removal from our home and separation from K are highly unusual and suspect. In my opinion, Respondent’s subsequent acts reveal extreme emotional disturbance and ***provide insight into the motives behind Kyron’s disappearance.***”
So KH is pointing fingers at a sexual motive too?
1. KH had to respond to the court. If he didn’t she could get exactly what she is asking for.
2.If I was KH I would do ANYTHING I could possibly do to get her to talk.