Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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Montana Mom,
Correction — I could have worded something better.
When I said that there are teachers who have done things far worse than Terri Horman, I am referring to those things in the past (DUI) that could have hindered her obtaining employment and nothing related to the current circumstances that she may or may not be involved in.
As Blink Jr used to say as a 5 year old- Is that for serious?
B
Very cute
But McCain is just a commenter, and is not privy to inside opinion. So it’s not for serious really, just a matter of opinion. And doesn’t he have an axe to grind with MCSO? So far I haven’t heard him publicly diss them, but this is a most definite diss.
Why would it be so bad if her defense became privy to some details… seems only fair. I mean, he unequivocally stated in an affidavit that she committed a crime, so seems only perfectly fair that he provides proof of what he states, as it relates very clearly to him resisting visitation. ???
Dee says:
October 28, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Like other posters here, I too have wondered what forces could have created this woman. I know that she was adopted at 8 months and I wonder who she was with during those first 8 months. If she was not with her mother but in some type of institution, she would have missed the critical time for bonding. Eight months of age is too late.
Dee … you are the 1st person I have seen in this entire case so far who has even recognized this aspect as potentially being an issue, so thank you for that. However, where everything you have said is true, I have many things to add (written below several of your comments in pieces). I could write a book on this subject, but I will put it in a nutshell here and spare everyone the long narrative. Even when a baby is adopted earlier than 8 mths, there are likely to be trust/bonding issues as the child grows up later because even an infant (although not conscious of it) has pre-verbal senses and knows the biological mother (which is the only familiar person by way of heartbeat, voice, scent, etc the infant knows) is gone. Adoptees also aren’t the only ones affected by the loss of the original mother. Pre-mature infants in pediatric ICU’s placed in incubators and away from the biological mother also exhibit similar bonding/trust issues, anxiety, etc.
—————————————
People who miss the bonding stage are forever lonely.
Yes the are … even if they’re not completely aware of it as many live in denial as well.
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They have a big hole in their hearts that they don’t know how to fill.
It is often compared to having a limb being cut off but being told there can’t be anything truly wrong simply because you do not have any logical, cognitive reason for why the emptiness exists, hence, in the public’s mind (and many in the adoption world) there is no rational reason for the alleged “hole” in the 1st place. I am convinced individuals who are not adoptees are not emotionally capable of truly understanding this. Some can kind of get it to a point, but to the degree that it is often felt no one other than someone else who has personally been through it can truly understand it and yes … it is a very lonely place to be.
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They also may find it easier to commit a crime because they, never having been deeply connected to a human being, would find it easier to dispense with empathy and disconnect from the crime being committed.
Many people are not aware that adoptees account for a higher than normal percentage of people in prison, rehab treatment centers and mental health facilities because of identity issues, emotional problems, self-esteem issues, etc. Even when basic stats for population in any given area are accounted for, adoptees still generally account for a higher than average number in these places. They are also more likely to have emotional, behavioral problems, issues with self-esteem, have addiction problems, engage in risky and/or criminal behavior, control problems (most go through at least some PTSD syptoms as a result of always feeling like they have to be “on guard” throughout much of their lives … as a result of trust/bonding issues), the list goes on and on. Some of the most notorious criminals were adopted, most notably the Son of Sam, David Berkowitz, Ted Bundy and Aileen Wournos, but the list is long. Female adoptees also are more likely than their biological counterparts to have a baby out of wedlock and/or unconsciously repeat the birthmother’s perceived history by adopting out their own child or in some way rejecting them.
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If her adopted parents spoiled her, (which is what I observe to be the case), then a sense of entitlement would have developed along with the foregoing characteristics. The end result could be true sociopathic behavior.
Yes to all the above, but adding that I am convinced TMH is at the very least a sociopath but personally believe she also has other issues, i.e. at least one personality disorder, narcissistic tendencies (if not actually full-fledged NPD), among other things. I’ve also questioned at times whether she may have bi-polar traits as well. The FBI estimates 500 serial killers currently in the U.S; about 80 or 16% have been identified as adoptees. Also, most adoptees who kill were adopted at birth.
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In our culture today there a millions of orphans, most of whom have living parents either unwilling or unable to care for them and with whom they have never bonded. I shudder to think of all the little Terri Hormans growing up among us.
I am guessing from your knowledge here you are either an adoptee, an adoptive professional or both. Either way, you appear more knowledgeable on the issue than most and FWIW I truly find that refreshing. Thank you for sharing.
I still question~? If you were Kaine & saw your child or children in jeopardy~would you just stand by & not put your child to bed or take care of the matter if the other parent was not able to do be a parent,
do to substance abuse or whatever~ something doesnt add up here ~! There was no reason the little sweet girl couldnt have been put to bed by her father or taken care of if he was on top of things~ my own opinion~ugh
beejay says:
October 28, 2010 at 9:16 pm
Back to the search for Ky. Did LE have good reason to believe @ June 14-15 that Ky’s body would be found containerized in the area Blink was told?
~~~
So we need to back to the crime scene .. problem is .. there’s nothing there .. that we know of .. it is believed that Ky literally got into a vehicle and was driven away .. which puts us right back at the two white truck sightings .. person, probably male, at the Horman truck .. then what???
Problem I have with 2 white truck theory is the GK’s statement .. his ORIGINAL statement .. in which he says he never saw a truck parked on the side road to the field during the timeframe LE was asking about.
Perhaps Ky being hidden in a container is possible .. there just hasn’t been any leaks of physical evidence found at the school to support this line of thinking.
so I’m starting to think the aliens got him .. I got nothing else.
Idahogal says:
October 27, 2010 at 12:43 pm
snipped
FWIW, I see that Kerry S-R is friends with DDS on FB (yes, DDS still has an FB page and profile), KH is not on her friend’s list, so safe to assume she was closer to TH. Since KSR has been B4 grand jury I have to wonder what she was asked, and whether she gave answers or if she pleaded the 5th. I am now very curious about her relationships with KH, TH and DDS, and what her idea was about getting the $350K for TH.
—————————————————————————————————-
Whatever Kerry’s idea was, TH states in the texts that she may have to “clear it with the boss…Steve, AKA lawyer extraordinaire”. I missed that the first time I read the texts.
46.Skyline Parent says:
October 28, 2010 at 10:35 pm
Pretty lousy PR stunt, considering the search mostly pissed people off, as far as I can tell from the oregon live comments.
I’m thinking this McCain guy is a bit of a publicity whore.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Skyline, my husband always says lawyers who have the time to run their mouths on t.v. don’t have enough work to do.
I have not been impressed with McCain’s previous commentaries on this case. He seems to have an axe to grind. Maybe he has never gotten over losing the Multnomah County sheriff’s race to Staton. Just MOO.
4.CassieS says:
October 29, 2010 at 12:04 am
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IIRC, I think it was said that Kaine did have to put Kiara to bed on some nights after finding her awake on the sofa when TMH was asleep. He did mention co-parenting the kids while working from home during this stage of the marriage.
24.mosaic says:
October 27, 2010 at 11:09 pm
LinTN,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mosaic, thank you so much for your post. I cannot fathom why some people seem so intent on only compounding Kaine’s sorrow.
18.LinTN says:
October 28, 2010 at 5:17 pm
They obviously do not have the evidence to back up their claims or she would be charged with murder.
I should have written that she would have been charged with MFH.
~~~~~~~~
LinTN, it is very difficult to prove MFH without concrete evidence. But having no proof doesn’t mean the plot never happened, it just means LE was not able to capture the transaction on tape. Usually officers will set up a sting very similar to what we saw in this case. Sometimes the conspirator falls for the sting and evidence is captured, sometimes not. Taken with all the other facts we now know about the principals involved in this case, I think this MFH has a clear ring of truth to it AND is an important piece of the puzzle.
@Roller Monkey:
Does anybody else now think this may all be Terri and Terri alone?
Yes, I do now. I now think that all the other people we have considered to be involved were people TH probably called or emailed after the fact. I don’t think she passed him off to anyone. I don’t think she sold him. I think for whatever sick reason she killed him and disposed of his body. I have wanted to hear specifically from LE that Kyron was not seen leaving with TH. I have wanted to hear that he was seen leaving with someone else. I don’t know that either has been confirmed by LE. I don’t think they know who he left the school with. If he was seen leaving with her, I think there would have been an arrest by now. If he was seen leaving with someone else, I think the public would have been informed. It’s quite possible someone saw TH driving out of the parking lot without seeing Kyron in the truck. Those trucks are high off the ground and he’s a little guy.
After reading the infamous texts, I think the things LE does not want to know they discovered through her online activities. Initially I feared she may have used Kyron for some porn purpose, but I think her butt would be in jail if that were the case. But the tone and verbiage of her texts seems more like something that would be said during online sex games. Oh baby, let’s arm wrestle and I’ll throw you down and sit on you? Sounds kind of stupid in real life. Try it on your husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/lover and see if they can keep from laughing. I think she honed her skills online and mistakenly used those skills in real situations with real acquaintances. I would not be surprised if RS had threatened to blackmail her with the stuff she had sent to him.
I don’t see the claims in the motion filed for Kaine indicative that he is narcissistic or obviously controlling or a bad parent. I see it all as lawyer hype, attorney theatrics. In custody/divorce battles the mud is thick. As I said before, the answer filed in TH’s behalf will say horrid things about Kaine.
I can’t blame Kaine for trying, although futilely, to get information out of TH about Kyron’s disappearance. Unfortunately, the door is closed on ever getting TH to talk. Perhaps someday she will divulge the details to her cellmate. I’ve got my fingers crossed.
I think we just cannot fathom the heinous murder of an innocent child so we grasp at everything we can to make judgment and place blame in an attempt to sooth our own psyches.
I tried so hard to be fair and impartial, for all of this family-but TH is now my main target. I think she either sold Kyron to the highest bidder, or introduced vile people into her family circle, not caring where that might lead, or knowing full well where it would lead. JMO
To gigi says: October 28, 2010 at 9:49 pm. I’m beginning to wonder too, not only if TH may have abused Kyron, but if she may have been involved in child pornography herself, and that is how the predators were introduced into her family. That would definitely fit with LE saying they know things they really wish they didn’t.
The reason I wonder that is because of a case in Kent, WA near where I live. A 4 year old girl was found in porn tapes with adults that turned out to be her bio mom and dad. It doesn’t get much more heartbreaking than that. The parents had been trading video of their daughter being raped by the dad and offering her for money to other child predators in exchange for money and more child porn. These total pieces of s**t really didn’t have much to say for themselves, but in court the dad did say:
>>Addressing King County Superior Court Judge Regina Cahan, Beston claimed remorse before apologizing for his “poor judgment” and saying he hoped to mend fences with his children in the future.<<
"Poor judgment"-WTF? He and his wife live streamed him raping the 4 year old and shared it with other predators. His wife helped film it. He's 6 foot tall and 360 pounds. And he apologized for his "poor judgment"? All he got was 26 years-that's a f**king crime right there! That little girl does not stand a chance in hell of ever living a normal life! Ever!
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/95654694.html
So I am starting to think that Kaine is now desperate and trying his damnedest to make sure that TH gets nowhere near little Kiara, without a roomful of cops guarding it. Who could blame him for that?
@Nancy
if the little one’s well-being was in issue & she “TH” was “PASSED OUT”
& he is the dad bonded with his daughter than I dont see a problem with putting her to bed plus I was married to a horrible alcoholic
I know the abuse and everything~ behaviors associated with drinking disorders ~ plus the control & Bi-polar etc.. you can choose your time to do what is right ~ They are not like the ever ready bunny LOL when the substance kicks in~ They do run down ~
Malty says:
October 28, 2010 at 2:53 pm
@ mockingbirdsings
I agree with your post #31
can’t Terri try to get visitation later on when she gets her life
stable
—————
Yes. Terri could go back to family court and try to modify the visitation anytime. If she loses custody when the case comes up now, her best chance would be to take some parenting classes, some alcohol treatment, get counseling about relationships, have a steady job she has held for awhile, no traffic tickets – that sort of thing to take into court and show she’s ready (not saying she would be). If she loses custody, she will be expected to pay child support according to the Oregon formula. If there’s no DHS case, it’s between Terri and Kaine and their lawyers and the judge.
If she is convicted of something, it would depend on what and what happens. Unless she does a plea bargain eventually, I can’t imagine this case without one or more psych evals which might some influence on visitation – at least negatively.
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-99520.html
Oregon does attempt to keep parent and child connected if the parent is expected to live with or have custody of the child after their sentence is completed.
http://sparkaction.org/node/3009
I found this program amazing. While training to be a foster parent, I saw a film of the Girl Scouts Beyond Bars program. Very moving. I am not suggesting TH could or would ever be part of this program, but I thought you might find it interesting.
IMO, the custody/visitation issues would probably remain a family court decision rather than a DHS case because I believe Kaine is a good parent on his own. If he gets divorced with full custody, the state will leave it to him to protect Kiara, as things appear now.
Multnomah County (and other counties) have mediation programs and parenting classes required now for parents who can’t agree, however, I don’t think there would be any benefit to that and I think a judge could say not.
I hope Kiara will have play therapy and age appropriate counseling for as long as it’s needed – probably years. People must remember that children go through developmental stages. Each stage brings new physical, emotional, and intellectual growth, and a new set of needs so that the child is really almost a “new person” in a way. Counseling needs to continue or reoccur with new stages. Some mental health issues have a genetic component and a professional would be able to monitor that as well, if needed.
Sorry Malty, I guess I said a lot more than you asked for.
Has anyone been to this site?? This is a link to supposedly Insintel’s emails…
http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/10/kyron-horman-insider-information-or.html
If you click the header of this site, you’ll see this website is dedicated to conspiracy theories targeting Kaine as the kidnapper…WEIRD!
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
@ Nancy
Well, I guess I missed that~I thought “passed out” meant “OUT”
And…….I hit submit before I was done. The point of the Kent, WA case I commented on was that if bio parents could do something so horrific, it woke me up to the potential of TH not being the sweet, little mommy she portrayed herself to be. Not that I’ve thought that since the beginning, but just because I gave her the benefit of the doubt for far too long.
Of course we don’t have enough facts yet to say for sure what happened, but just what I’m reading with these new documents, sexts, etc., and going over some older info, I have to wonder. This Seamus O’Reilly analysis (Sept. 16) ties the potential of child porn, etc. with the things LE has said (about knowing what they wish they didn’t),together better than I can.
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/09/kyron-investigation-sheriff-statement.html
***************************************************
I wanted to talk about something that many have been bringing up. Kaine not putting Kiara to bed when TH was drunk, etc. I think he trusted her because most guys trust the women they are with-even when it doesn’t make sense. But watching this play out reminds me of my nephew-not as serious a situation by far, but sad all the same.
My nephew married a woman who had a little girl already. He was a good dad to the child and enjoyed having a family. He worked hard and did everything for his wife and child. They then had a child together and problems started soon after with the wife sleeping around. He loved her so much and just put up with it. She then moved out but left the kids with him……and he still loved her and took her back numerous times as this just kept happening. We couldn’t believe what he was putting up with! Finally, she got pregnant with another guys baby and our family said “okay, THIS time he is done with her, we’re sure of it!” Nope, he took her back a few more times and when she finally had the baby-she left and left the baby (that was NOT his) with him to raise! She has moved away and continues with her party hardy lifestyle-while he raises three kids-two of which are not his! He struggles as a single dad and to this day, I believe he would take her back if she asked!
So the moral to this story is: if a person loves someone beyond reason-they will put up with almost anything to keep that person in their life. I think Kaine really loved TH and looked past what she did, and also what she was capable of doing. His love (and lust) for her totally clouded his vision. When your vision is clouded you miss important details. Those details likely cost him his son.
panda says: October 28, 2010 at 10:02 pm
“Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
‘I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.””
——————–
“Could it be that releasing the texts was Rackner’s way of aiding in reciprocal discovery?”
Peter Bunch is referring to the state’s duty to disclose exculpatory evidence prior to a criminal trial. It is not “reciprocal discovery” in the civil sense. This is information that comes from the state to the defendant.
However, if you read the civil rules, Mr. Bunch and Stephen Houze can get at that information right now by forcing the state to produce its witnesses and evidence, and to allow Ms. Horman’s lawyers the opportunity to conduct cross examination.
Kaine Horman is making allegations of domestic violence and child abuse. The Confrontation Clause applies, which means Terri Horman has the absolute right to confront her accusers and conduct cross examination. This is why Ms. Horman’s lawyers have the ability to demand the state put up or shut up.
Maybe her lawyers think it would be better not to pursue this avenue right now. Or maybe they are afraid of what might come out in court.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
puzzled says: October 28, 2010 at 4:32 pm
“Question?? why would a divorce attorney have evidence in a criminal investigation and will they have to turn the sext/texts over to respondent in discovery?”
In this case, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young are receiving updates from law enforcement because their child is missing. This is not the same as the state offering to help Mr. Horman litigate his divorce.
In reality, the state is supposed to be hands-off with private civil litigation. The state works on behalf of the people of the state (or county), not private individuals.
What makes this case strange is that you have a stepfather who is in law enforcement, and the mother of a missing child (the wife of the law enforcement officer) who has never liked the child’s stepmother, who has become the de facto suspect in a criminal investigation.
There is a great potential for the state to be drawn into a case in which the state has no business involving itself, and for the parents to use the information they legitimately obtain from the state in a missing persons case to get revenge on someone who they believe is involved.
Even if everyone if playing it by the book, the problem becomes the potential appearance of wrongdoing.
There is a separate problem that Mr. Horman has created by using information he received from investigators in his divorce. In doing so, he opened the door to Ms. Horman forcing Mr. Horman to put on his witnesses and provide all of the information he has to back up his claims. The state may not be ready to go on this, but Mr. Horman has forced the issue.
CassieS says:
October 29, 2010 at 3:15 am
@ Nancy
Well, I guess I missed that~I thought “passed out” meant “OUT”
—————————————————
With all due respect, I’m perplexed as to the emphasis on what Kaine allowed in the past without acknowledging the improvements/corrections he has made for Kiara as a result.
Kaine is ensuring that Kiara now has a regular sleep schedule and is being put to bed at an appropriate time each evening. It would seem Kaine’s inadequate protection of his children in the past has resulted in vastly improved conditions for Kiara now.
I believe it is much more appropriate to applaud Kaine for learning from his mistakes (and correcting them) than to dwell on past co-dependency. His current actions are those of a father concerned about the health, well being and security of his daughter.
New Insight From Attorney Connor:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/10/29/kyron-horman-case-update-blinkoncrime-com-legal-analyst-lea-connor-weighs-in/
B
@ puzzled says:
October 29, 2010 at 12:08 am
________________
About the white trucks: all I can figure out is the white truck that Ky left in wasn’t parked where LE thought it was. And it was not the Horman truck. Maybe it was on the back side of the school–near where that garage bldg is.
But, if Blink’s source for the link I posted gave her correct intel, LE had reason to believe that either Ky, or some implements, clothing, or some other evidence, was in a container… and possibly in the location being searched. So, whether or not LE has a crime scene, they had some lead (or mislead) suggesting a container and that location.
(Or, it really was the aliens. LOL)
Blink its me Kimberly on my blackberry!
@ beejay
Beejay I was wondering if in your research you had come across anything indicating someone to do with maintenance at the school! The reason I ask is because @ our school here in pdx, we have janitors, groundskeepers and then the maintenance people! All of which are separate. Meaning, dave S, mowed the fields, that was his only job there, then the janitor did the cleaning, but who is the maintenance person who keeps the lights in check? The painting, the heating and etc. These maintenance people are usually part of the pps that are hired specifically to perform these assigned duties. They are also not assigned to just one school but all within the close area! Maintenance personell would have access to the maintenance buildings and supplies there of?
Blink/Lea Conner
“What law enforcement was seeking matters. Ms. Horman’s specialty was in teaching children with learning disabilities. She would have had access to confidential psychological testing, mental health records, medical documents, and possibly, CPS records, none of which could be disclosed except by parent authorization, or pursuant to subpoena or search warrant. Even though she had not worked in that area for some time, she may still have had such records in her home or on her laptop”.
1) Can you further explain this paragraph? Do you mean she would have access to blank forms? Or she would still be privy to access or view “real” historical cases on her laptop?
2) Would/could she have access to Kyrons school records? (Jumping to conclusions for a sec…but could she have forged/added/or omitted some records from Kyrons portfolio? (Maybe to make it simple to hand him off to someone?
3) This is quoted from Oregonlive:
“For the past two years she has been on unemployment and contributed as much as she could to the household expenses”.
With #3 said…..why would Terri still have ANY access after two years to the said records mentioned in your paragraph? I would think whomever she was employed by (don’t know which school/agency before she filed for unemployment)would have made sure these records were turned over. (I don’t understand, why they would be on her personal laptop in the first place).
Inquiring minds want to know!
20.Jackie Bauer
says:
October 28, 2010 at 5:49 pm
@Mosaic: Thank you. There are so many times I want to comment, but feel it fruitless. There are people who will do any amt of gyration/machination to blame KH. Baffling, to me.
**********************************************************************
Gosh Mosaic, Jackie Bauer, GraceintheHills…Have you happened to see Blinks…Kyron Horman Case Update: Blinkoncrime.com Legal Analyst Lea Conner Weighs In. Forgive me if the first time I ever posted that I insinuated that Kaine was controlling and less than perfect. I do happen to feel very sorry for the man that has lost his son.
Yet, looking into truth is part of the path to finding Kyron. I do not know what is going on behind the scenes…Nor do you. But what Kaine is portraying to the public (without anything to back it up) will come back to bite him. I apoligize for speaking against the norm here. You don’t have to worry I have no intentions of posting ever again.
I don’t know why this is a line in the sand issue? And can we please refrain from the “never posting again” stuff?
B
Southern Mom,
Whoa! That was a very interesting find you posted. Thanks.
I must say that it reads as very rational and reasonable. It does not appear outlandish at all.
Just a few things to say to get the wheels turning.
#1 — I believe LE may not know exactly what happened to Kyron, but I also believe they know Terri is not directly responsible. Add to that, they know a lot about what she’s been involved in (they combed through computers and phones, not just hers, but others) and in MOO she is likely criminally liable for something — but not for Kyron’s disappearance. That’s why she doesn’t want to testify. There may be deals in the making in that regard.
#2 — Re: what did happen to Kyron…where is RS? Where is RS? Do you think LE knows? Do you think they are protecting him? In MOO — and it’s been stated by LE — there are bigger fish to fry here. There is more at stake. There is more hinging on this investigation than just finding out what happened to Kryon. And/or he is part of that bigger puzzle.
#3 — Apparently Kyron’s behavior had been changing recently — spaced out, acting out…these could be behaviors related to sexual abuse. By Terri? I don’t know…who knows what she spent her time doing during the day — but Kyron was in school, and according to Kaine Terri was passed out many evenings, so there isn’t much opportunity to involve him. We’d have to know more about Kyron’s daily life.
#4 — The “Kyron saw everything” Desiree mentioned — I don’t think that has to do with horrible things happening directly to him. I think it’s a reference to what was going on in the Horman household — drunkeness, fights, passing out…Now that Desiree has that window, she is certainly going to distance herself from Kaine. I am sure this was a shock to her and she is beyond angry.
I still think this was a “blindside” abduction and if you’re looking for motive it’s one of two things: a revenge by someone very angry at Terri and possibly hoping for financial gain to (get out of town, start over somewhere else, pay off another obligation); or an action of a SO that just happened to be timed very nicely to look like Terri Horman did it.
Again…where is RS?
I don’t know why this is a line in the sand issue? And can we please refrain from the “never posting again” stuff?
B
Because it’s further victimizing a victim that’s why.
Sorry, evaluating the merits of legal filings that a person signs an affadavit to, is absolutely not victimization.
I think she is a total skank, but I also believe that you do not get to pick and choose which law you follow based on that.
I am on Kyron’s side, for the record.
B
Sorry, evaluating the merits of legal filings that a person signs an affadavit to, is absolutely not victimization.
I think she is a total skank, but I also believe that you do not get to pick and choose which law you follow based on that.
I am on Kyron’s side, for the record.
B
The tone of the article did not come across as evaulating as much as accusing and blaming to ME. If I misinterpreted it, I apologize but others seem to get the same vibe as me. It’s just the way it’s written I guess.
Mother Hen says:
October 29, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Southern Mom,
Whoa! That was a very interesting find you posted. Thanks.
I must say that it reads as very rational and reasonable. It does not appear outlandish at all.
—————————
I concur, although I really don’t know what to make of those alleged inside e-mails that were posted. It did in fact sound very reasonable and rational to me, however, I still believe in my heart that TMH is less than squeaky clean when all is said and done in this. Does that have anything to do w/Ky actually disappearing? I really don’t know. I will say however, that as a person w/an inquiring mind and a psychology/researching background, I have learned that as an amateur sleuther, it seems you can never truly rule anyone out until the fat lady sings because people often have hidden agendas others are not privy to. There are things in KH’s background on the record that concern me too. I’d be lying if I said that weren’t true. At this point, I’m not ruling out that KH may have skeletons in the closet he might not want known either, which may or may not have indirectly resulted in Ky’s disappearance. IMO, they are both a little hinky in their comments/behavior over the last few mths .. just in different ways. MOO
I do not believe Ky’s disappearance on June 4th was coincidental to Terri’s being there that day. Ky ordinarily rode the bus to school. I also do not believe anyone set Terri up that day, quite the contrary.
I think she’s fully involved in his disappearance. I hope LE can figure it out. If it’s fact Ky was seen outside the building (according to Desiree) and another witness said someone (an adult), was seen in the truck this was no random abduction. Terri is not only a skank, but a mentally disturbed one to boot! She will never talk because she doesn’t feel she did anything at all wrong. That is the world she’s been living in for years…Terri’s world where she gets what she wants by whatever means available. moo
NEW BLINK Kyron Horman thread.
“Kyron Horman Update … Lea Connor…”
New Posts
[.Direct link above post by "Nancy @8:44am " ]
beejay says:
October 28, 2010 at 9:16 pm
Back to the search for Ky. Did LE have good reason to believe @ June 14-15 that Ky’s body would be found containerized in the area Blink was told? Or were they just grasping at straws? If they knew back then, how did they know? They must’ve known who did it (is that what RS is a material witness to?) Why have we drifted from that? That container could be somewhere, just not found yet.
——————————————————————————–
Were any of the Science fair projects either taken into the school or removed from the school using a container? If so, it would probably not be out of place to have seen someone carrying a container into the school, or be seen leaving with a container.
In regard to the container beejay asks about … in one of TMH’s FB photos, she has two of Kitty playing near a big blue one w/aluminum cans (for recycling) in it. The big blue Rubbermaid-like container was on the Horman’s front porch area. I haven’t been able to verify if in fact that blue container is still there … anyone else maybe know?
Just found that link to TMH’s FB photos (with the big blue Rubbermaid-like container on the porch). Here it is:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=1264414625&aid=2063551&s=0&hash=0add68a8aba693bcdc759a4900d5009c
31.cd says:
October 29, 2010 at 4:10 pm
beejay says:
October 28, 2010 at 9:16 pm
Back to the search for Ky. Did LE have good reason to believe @ June 14-15 that Ky’s body would be found containerized in the area Blink was told? Or were they just grasping at straws? If they knew back then, how did they know? They must’ve known who did it (is that what RS is a material witness to?) Why have we drifted from that? That container could be somewhere, just not found yet.
——————————————————————————–
Were any of the Science fair projects either taken into the school or removed from the school using a container? If so, it would probably not be out of place to have seen someone carrying a container into the school, or be seen leaving with a container.
———————————–
LE removed the SF project as evidence from the school.
The comments about the blue containers has been around before. It is old news from a couple of months ago.
Regarding the adoption issue (which may or may not have been a factor in TH’s development) . . .
As an adoptee myself, and someone who has experience in the adoption field, I can tell you that “adopted at 8 months” doesn’t typically mean brought into the adoptive home at 8 months. That phrase often refers to the time an adoption was finalized, and generally speaking that occurred MONTHS after an infant was placed with a family. This was true even when unwed pregnancy was so stigmatized that adoption was basically the only option a birthmother might have.
I was placed with my adoptive family when I was one month old (and it took that long for my birthmother to decide to sign relinquish papers) and the adoption was not finalized until I was about 9 months old. At that point, my parents showed up in court, the placing agency signed off on everything, a Decree of Final Adoption was issued, an amended birth certificate issued with the original sealed away. That was 50 years ago – no need for birthfather to sign anything or even be informed of my existence — no other special reason to cause a delay, it was just a typical time frame for the whole process. Same with my younger sister — placed with our parents when she was just a week old, adoption finalized around 6 – 7 months.
@Justice23 & Dee: one of my BFFs is an expert on adoption issues, and back in July I asked her about this re: TH. I am not adopted, but knowing that TH was and having had an awful, awful experience with a sociopath who was adopted, I thought there might be a connection. Interesting to read your analysis. Thanks for taking the time to outline it so clearly.
@LinTN: I apologize if you thought I meant you when I posted a “thank you” to Mosaic. I don’t understand the KH negativity, and yes, I did read the new post, but that’s just my feeling about it. Some others agree with me. Others not at all. I hope you will continue to post. Lots of people out there to agree with you, too, and we aren’t all here to agree or not. I’m only here because I want to know if there’s any progress re: finding Kyron.
@mockingbirdsings
thanks for the info I think alot of adults could use play therapy
one more question a criminal charge and a felony do you
remember the diff here in Oregon
I think you are here
Thanks
As I understand it there were about 1000 texts to MC
since we were exposed to some awful text
it would be interesting just to see the rest to see if she dropped
any other names or info
and I must say after the shock wares off it looks like she has been
around some pretty rough company in her day
and knows how to sext
but her lack of respect toward Houze and sneaking out got me
more as lots of people can not afford a good lawyer
it is like her car and home she was doing pretty well compared to
lots of people who are foreclosed or on the street with kids in Oregon today
not me yet LOL but we could all get there
where I work they are saying 2011 is going be a bad year and
may lead to layoffs Medical
I’m new here, so hello! (waving)
I’ve been reading these comments for awhile and well, I work in Family Law…so I’m going to give you just a bit of information about some rules of thumb there. And the rules where I am may be a bit different from Oregan.
In family law, when paperwork is filed, we wait, because there is what we call the ‘Read, React, Respond’ phase. Someone slings serious mud at someone else. And then there is this HUGE reaction…and then when the person calms down…the response is carefully thought out and filed. Emotions run wild at first. So, it’s appropriate that TH’s lawyer allow that to settle, because he does have to mitigate her emotions first. Otherwise the documents coming back will be full of anger and emotion and be a mess.
Typically each paragraph of KH’s affidavit has to be responded to. If TH, for example, does not respond to a paragraph in KH’s affidavit, it could be assumed that the information contained therein is therefore true.
With that said, too much explanation, also looks bad, and anything she says can be used against her in criminal court, if she were ever charged regarding KY.
So you can see the paradigm here. If there is explanation, ‘well I wasn’t drunk, I’d have a drink or two’…then it is assumed that the child has witness her mother under the influence. If she says ‘I have never had a drink in front of my children in my life’, then all it takes is one friend, or family member to give an affidavit stating otherwise.
It’s a cat-and-mouse game in divorce papers, it’s downright disgusting…because children do tend to seek out this information as adults…so we do them no justice by smearing their other parent’s name. Things always get worse before they get better.
In the end…unless TH is charged and convicted, nothing KH does, will prevent her from having supervised access with Kiara.
The important thing for everyone to remember is that access is less about the parent and more about the child. It is KIARA’s right to access. She has a right to access both of her parents. It’s about minimizing the impact that seperation/divorce is going to have on her.
Fact is, she’s had mommy every day. Now there is no mommy. And it concerns me, the hate campaign that KH is running. I understand that he believes TH is connected to Ky’s disappearance. And I completely get it, how he’s scared of Kiara being around her. I don’t blame him for that, given the information he’s been given.. But that is why access would be SUPERVISED.
On another note, about the ‘information that KH has been given’…
I do wonder sometimes, what if?
What if it’s not TH? (and I have my doubts, it just doesn’t add up)
Then LE has just caused the mistrust there, and the divorce ultimately.
LE would have caused TH’s loss of custody of her daughter.
THAT will be a lawsuit, for sure.
And if it is KH (which I don’t believe it is) then he has had Kiara with him. – you get what I’m saying?
I don’t think LE has the answers.
They are circle-talking.
They are lost.
They better get themselves together here, and get this right.
If TH is the one, then dot your i’s and cross your t’s and put her in jail.
If not, then clear her publicly, so that she can have a life.
I don’t think the MFH plot is true.
RS is a liar. clearly.I think the outcome of that ‘sting’ proved as much.
jilted? who knows?
But, LE told KH about this, without knowing if it’s true, and so now KH hates her, and makes the obvious link to the ky situation.
This whole thing is sad.
@Idahogal-thanks its good to be back. Trying to stay caught up is not easy though and I am likely to soon get behind again.
@Gigi-I have also considered that TMH may have been the sexual motivator but not necessarily molesting. I am thinking taking pictures and selling them. I would not put it past her to make her money in child porn, using Kyron as the object of those photos. MOO
Re: Bruce McCain interview-yanno, every time I hear that guy speak I want to shove a sock in his mouth. Now, moreso than ever. He should STFU and let LE do their jobs. I wonder why he is “ex LE”? Did he get booted?
@Montana mom and others: Re: MCs texts. I think MC knew from gitgo he was going to turn his phone over to LE. I think his responses were tamed down because he knew his words would be read. He went to such lengths to respond about how he didn’t want to lie and that TMH shouldn’t lie. That right there was a soapbox if I ever saw one. He knew he was going to LE, but I don’t think he is smart enough to know that TMH showing him the RO was a violation of the closure aspect of the RO.
In light of the fact that there were similarities between TMHs overtures to RS, I believe she was full force head on going after MC to get him into bed. It’s just her MO. I think she put forth her best effort and yes it was indeed lame. If you look closely you can see that some of her replies took only seconds to send back. She was keyed up and ready to go. I think she was cocky in thinking that she had a “clean phone” and she would not get caught, further support of the suppositions above.
MOO
@S: You said that if TMH was using Kyron for porn she would be in jail by now. I disagree-she would not be in jail if there was a larger investigation involving child porn where it was planned to do mass numbers of arrests at the same time. Who knows, they may even want to charge TMH with child porn/possession at some point over what may turn out to be an unproven child abduction (IF* this is indeed the case, merely speculation and opinion on my part.)
Just my thoughts and i hope they make sense.
@Zeus: Sickening story and a good illustration of my thoughts listed above. Who knows how far reaching the predatory circle is.
You know, I have always wondered about lawyers getting paid with illegal money. If you are found to be dealing and they take all your assets, they lawyer gets paid first do they not? (since you were not guilty at time of payment) If TMH sold Ky off or something horrendous like that, and Houze gets paid with that money-well, its HIS money is it not? Even though it was ill gotten gains? I wonder how some of these guys sleep at night.
Wow I just saw on KOIN
Terri is fighting back
I gotta go see what is going on
anyone got Link
I knew I got up to early for some reason
Somebody wake up
things are happening!!!
@Southernmom: I glanced at the alternate theories website a bit here and there and every time I read it I scratch my head and think that it’s either someone without a clue what is going on or someone like TMH or someone close to her that is just spewing crap to try to throw people off her scent.
33.justice23 says:
October 29, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Just found that link to TMH’s FB photos (with the big blue Rubbermaid-like container on the porch). Here it is:
~~~~~~~~~
Justice, every time I see that photo of the Rubbermaid container, I get a sick feeling….
I’m moving, along with everyone else I guess, to the newest Lea Conner thread. I’ve been there, but came back here to see some folks still posting here.
Let’s all move, shall we? cd, justice, kimberly–meet me over there?
Justice23,
Thanks for your post. I want to clarify that I never expressly stated or implied that TH is anywhere near squeeky clean.
Only clarifying.
Thanks.
I thought this was the most recent thread. How did it get moved again and where is it?