Kyron Horman Case Update: Blinkoncrime.com Legal Analyst Lea Conner Weighs In
Portland, OR- Please Welcome Again blinkoncrime.com Contributing Editor And Legal Analyst, Washington Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner.
Although I am not licensed in Oregon, I grew up there and was a news reporter for several years in that state, during which time I covered the cops and courts beat. My practice in Washington state deals in family law matters. As such, I can comment as to my knowledge of family law and court proceedings, but my comments are general analysis, not legal advice.
Kaine Horman’s pleadings of October 25, 2010, unleashed a tempest of charges against his wife, claiming she was a raging drunk whose inability to control her anger and her drinking had already caused her to give up custody of one child prior to the disappearance of her stepson on June 4, 2010. Unlike his prior, more tersely-written court filings, Mr. Horman’s words are more personal and angry. They are also contradicted by his prior statements to the court and to the media, and the very documentation he provided as part of his October 25 court papers.
The latest round of pleadings from Mr. Horman seems to fit a far bigger effort by Mr. Horman and Desiree Young to push Ms. Horman to the point where she would be forced to speak in her own defense. Ms. Horman’s own writings within days of Kryon’s disappearance evidence her Achilles heel in that Ms. Horman complained loudly about criticism heaped upon her via the internet.
What followed was a whisper campaign of purported law enforcement leaks about Ms. Horman and people around her that has continually kept her name in the news since June 4, 2010. Mr. Horman’s court filings also evidence an effort to keep Ms. Horman under constant public scrutiny, by filing multiple motions over time that could have been either avoided or filed jointly.
Consider this: Kaine Horman failed to mention in his June 28, 2010, restraining order application that he wanted his wife out of the house and, as a result, on July 1, 2010, filed an amended petition for restraints and asked for an expedited hearing.
“..This omission is an odd oversight, considering that Mr. Horman filed for divorce, took the parties’ child, but failed to ask for the house. Possession of the family home is such a basic issue it would seem impossible for a family law attorney to forget to mention it in a party’s opening paper…”
Filing a separate motion to seek return of the family home seems like a good strategy for someone seeking to keep the focus on Ms. Horman. It’s new information to the media, whereas the fact that Kryon remained missing and Mr. Horman and Ms. Young’s suspicions about Ms. Horman were yesterday’s headline.
Early on in criminal investigation and prior to the divorce filing, Mr. Horman described his wife in benign terms. As the weeks stretch on, these descriptions became increasingly negative. Mr. Horman and Ms. Young both stated their objective was to keep the focus on Kyron. In the absence of anything new to report, both parents embarked on a campaign to slowly heap increasing pressure on Ms. Horman to talk.
From the law enforcement perspective, Ms. Horman is a natural suspect, given her relationship to the victim and the fact that she was the last person known to have been seen with him. Except for anonymous leaks and rumors, the only people who have put their names to allegations are Mr. Horman and Kyron’s mother Desiree Young. Both claim their information comes from law enforcement, but both have disagreed at times as to the credibility of the information they shared publicly. Such was the case with Ms. Young’s claim that Kyron was last seen outside the school near a white truck, while Mr. Horman quickly corrected her, saying the information had not been confirmed.
“..Without Ms. Young and Det. Tony Young in the room, Mr. Horman seems to have gone off script and now cannot control his message nor his anger. Mr. Horman angrily complains about horrible things that might have happened in front of Kiara, yet he cannot say what exactly became of Kyron, and whether there is any evidence to suggest Kiara was a witness to this unspecified event…”
In his most recent pleadings, Mr. Horman angrily recounts that Ms. Horman claimed she was going to the gym, but since their separation, he has come to believe that she spent the time talking to people and flirting. The portrait of a social butterfly chatting people up at the gym for hours on end doesn’t quite fit with Mr. Horman’s other claims that she was an angry, depressed new mother who drank her self blotto and could not maintain any sort of civility toward those around her.
Which is it? Was Ms. Horman a mean drunk who drank herself to sleep, or was she self-absorbed and social, staying up to all hours playing on the Internet while her child sat in the same room unattended and un-engaged? Or was she a social butterfly who spent most of her time outside the home while Mr. Horman was super dad, working long hours from home, caring for the children, and providing an income that he never could enjoy because Ms. Horman was spending it all? The claims are so disjointed, it is as though Mr. Horman decided to throw spaghetti at the wall, just to see what might stick.
Mr. Horman’s over-reaching was fore shadowed in an earlier motion filed on July 12, 2010, alleging Ms. Horman had violated the courts seal on the restraining order. The pleadings in the contempt matter went well beyond Mr. Horman’s claim that Ms. Horman allegedly disclosed confidential court papers to Michael Cook.
Mr. Horman asserted that Ms. Horman was involved with a sexual relationship with Mr. Cook and had sent him hundreds of text messages, most of which were sexual in nature (AKA “sexting”). These text messages allegedly included images of “graphic sexual activity,” though no such photos have been filed with the court.
“..Mr. Horman accused Ms. Horman of lacking any genuine affection for Kyron or Kiara saying that although her texts said she missed both children, the mentions were few. The implication of the narrative was that Ms. Horman could not possibly care about either child…”
Except for the specific passage alleging Ms. Horman shared a confidential document with Mr. Cook, none of the other allegations had anything to do with the underlying motion. None of these claims addressed the issue of whether Ms. Horman violated the court order, nor do they indicate any involvement by Ms. Horman in Kyron’s disappearance.
Mr. Horman went on to claim that an unnamed member or members of law enforcement “informed” him that the sexualized text messages “resemble” text messages sent to the “the man Respondent [Ms. Horman] previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner [Mr. Horman].” Mr. Horman claimed in the same July 1 2court papers that Ms. Horman had asked Mr. Cook to lie to her attorney about “the fact that she had gone to Mr. Cook’s home.”
One news outlet found Mr. Horman’s pleadings so lurid it titled the document “sleazy.pdf” before posting it to its website.
On October 25, 2010, Mr. Horman finally filed the aforementioned text messages with the court, as an exhibit attached to his response to Ms. Horman’s parenting time request. A review of these document reveals that Ms. Horman never asked Mr. Cook to lie, nor did she speak of Kyron and Kiara in dismissive tones. Although most of the texts showed varying degrees of sexual discussion, there were also several texts that had nothing to do with Ms. Horman’s romantic attachments. Ms. Horman discussed cooking, eating “nutterbutter bites,” weight lifting, and their respective children.
..”Ms. Horman told Mr. Cook, “I was really upset that Kaine has Kitty but doesn’t know what her favorite toy or blanket is.”
-Terri Horman
A parent who does not care about her daughter would not waste a single moment worrying about her child having her favorite toy or blanket. The allegation that Mr. Horman did not know such basic information about his daughter provides motive for Mr. Horman to attempt to discredit Ms. Horman’s words as insincere. Otherwise, Ms. Horman’s words are truthful and reflect her historical relationship as primary care giver to both children.
On July 28, 2010, Mr. Horman filed yet another motion demanding Ms. Horman reveal the source of funds used to pay her lawyer. It was as though Mr. Horman was asking how Ms. Horman could have ever come up with that kind of money, given her status as a social pariah?
The problem with Mr. Horman’s strategy of piecemeal litigation it does not serve the purpose of expediting litigation. Instead, it creates a lot of embarrassment and harassment for Ms. Horman.
Oregon is a no-fault divorce state. This means that either party can ask for a divorce without having to prove any wrongdoing. Oregon is also an “equitable distribution” state which means that the court divides property equitably between the parties. Issues like infidelity and rude behavior are not factors in whether a party is entitled to divorce, or in dividing up the parties assets.
Mr. Horman raises several issues about Ms. Horman’s alleged conduct citing them as as basis to award sole custody and care of Kiara. The allegations are such that it becomes difficult for Ms. Horman to leave any responses up to her lawyer, who would not have personal knowledge required to speak to the many issues he raises.
Ultimately, the court will consider the allegations made by each party, weigh the credibility and relevance of each claim as to parenting issues then enter a temporary order as to the care and custody of the child.
Mr. Horman claims in his October 25 filings that Ms. Horman has a five year history of alcohol impairment. In his statement to the court, Mr. Horman claimed that his wife “could have an un diagnosed personality disorder or some type of emotional disturbance.”
The most recent claims by Mr. Horman are contradicted by his prior assertions in media interviews, and the actual chronology of the Hormans’ relationship.
Mr. Horman met Ms. Horman in the spring of 2002. According to Mr. Horman, the couple moved in together in December 2002. The couple was living together when Ms. Horman was cited for DUI on July 10, 2005. Two years later, the couple moved to their home on NW Sheltered Nook Road in January 2007.
Despite the DUI, Mr. Horman nonetheless went on to marry Ms. Horman on April 15, 2007. Ms. Horman gave birth to Kiara on November 12, 2008.
In a prior interview with KGW, Mr. Horman called Ms. Horman “a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did. Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now.”
Mr. Horman told KGW that he was blindsided by Kyron’s disappearance: “There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen. She recently got her teaching license re-instated and has been applying for teaching positions so even the state of Oregon didn’t see this coming.”
The person described in Mr. Horman’s October 25 court papers is not someone who could be described as hidden danger. If believed, Mr. Horman’s most recent statement outline a terrifying picture of a five-year pattern of child abuse and endangerment. Mr. Horman could not possibly be telling the truth in both of his interview with KGW and in his more recent court papers.
Also in the October 25 filing, Mr. Horman claims that he has always been the primary care giver to both Kiara and Kyron and describes Ms. Horman as frequently absent from their home, apparently leaving him with both children.
In a July 28, 2010, Oregonian article, Mr. Horman claimed Kiara was a much different child now that Ms. Horman was gone. He claimed Kiara did not ask about her mom. “‘She’s a new kid,’ he said. ‘She’s whole new kid now.’”
In a separate article, Mr. Horman discussed Ms. Horman’s excessive involvement in Kyron’s schooling and adamant enforcement of discipline. “He [Mr. Horman] said when Kyron brought home anything but a green card [indicating good behavior at school] she [Ms. Horman] wanted Kaine to discipline him by grounding him to his room for the evening.”
Mr. Horman also asserts in his October 25 court papers that Ms. Horman would put Kiara in the gym day care for “hours at a time,” and further claimed that Ms. Horman “spent more time on the computer than caring for the children.” If Mr. Horman was home and providing primary care for the children, then how would Kiara have ended up in day care for “hours at at time”? How would the children have remained unattended while Ms. Horman was updating her Facebook page?
Mr. Horman’s other narrative seems to indicate that Mr. Horman was not present in the home during the day, leaving Ms. Horman to care for the children. It also contradicts Mr. Horman’s escalating accusations that Ms. Horman was absent from the home, uninvolved, and not involved with the care of Kyron and Kiara.
Mr. Horman also claims in his pleadings that Ms. Horman’s son James lived with them until Feb 5, 2010, when he moved because Ms. Horman “was unable to interact with James on a healthy level and had him move to her parents’ home in Roseburg.”
Mr. Horman also claimed he was unaware of any landscaper, a detail which contradicts his most recent work-from-home story: “No, I did not know we had a landscaper and have never met him.” If he was at home, surely he would have known about a landscaper.
On July 8, 2010, Mr. Horman told the Oregonian that Ms. Horman began having problems with postpartum depression in November 2008.
“‘I thought the marriage was doing pretty well,’ Kaine Horman said during a one-on-one interview with The Oregonian, ‘until we had our daughter, Kiara.’ Horman said he thought his marriage to Terri Moulton Horman fractured within six months after she gave birth in November 2008, the result of postpartum depression.Terri Horman was put on medication for the depression, and her doctor told Kaine to keep an eye on her to make sure she was OK, he said. But she wasn’t OK.
If Mr. Horman thought Ms. Horman was a chronic danger to her children and Mr. Horman’s son,why did he not mention it prior to October 25, 2010? Could it be that Mr. Horman’s entire series of pleadings are designed to push Ms. Horman with ever-increasing allegations to the point where she has no choice but to respond?
There are other clues that Mr. Horman’s latest version of events is not entirely accurate. According to more recent news stories, James is again living with his mother. Strange, considering Mr. Horman’s claims that James changed high schools mid-semester and moved hundreds of miles because of Ms. Horman’s behavior.
There are also hints concerning law enforcement’s interest in the Horman dissolution. A June 6, 2010, letter from Norm W. Frink, chief deputy district attorney for Multnomah County, rescinded his statement that un sealing the restraining order would undermine the “ongoing criminal investigation.” If Ms. Horman was the target of the investigation, what purpose would be served by sealing court documents that were to be served upon Ms. Horman? The only other person identified in the pleadings was an unnamed landscaper alleged to have been contacted by Ms. Horman.
As we now know, the landscaper was involved in what has been characterized as a botched sting operation against Ms. Horman. As such, the only person protected by the the seal was Ms. Horman to the extent that the seal prevented the allegations from being disseminated publicly. Or could it be that law enforcement was concerned about accuracy of the information provided by the landscaper?
Law enforcement conducted its sting operation over open channels that were accessible to anyone listening on police channels. Was this an oversight, or was it a convenient way to ensure the information was released “unintentionally”?
If there was any blame for promoting a bogus murder for hire plot, law enforcement could point to Ms. Horman as bringing upon her own misery. She chose to disclose the documents, and as a result, the information was disseminated because of her actions in violating a court order, not law enforcement’s efforts to run out a possible lead, even if later proven false.
We don’t know what role Michael Cook played in the disclosure of the now-public restraining order. The texts between he and Ms. Horman seems to indicate Mr. Cook was not so much interested in sexual banter as much as he was in gathering information for Mr. Horman
The roles of Mr. Cook and the landscaper are highly relevant to evidentiary issues. If the landscaper was a confidential informant, the information he reported that was used as basis for the restraining order could not then be considered an admission against interest. Same thing applies to Mr. Cook.
Mr. Cook in particular seems not to be acting out of concern for Kyron. Who the hell smirks at a vigil for a missing child?)
Reading Mr. Cook’s texts to Terri, there’s a tone that suggests that someone was sitting right next to him, telling him what to type. If true, the question becomes who is that someone guiding Mr. Cook’s actions?
The sexting is weird, but it is hardly ground breaking. The courts have heard such allegations many times before, and without a doubt, the court has seen far worse. That is not to see the court is going to like the texts. Rather, the judge here is going to look at the pleadings with a critical eye for issues that affect parenting time.
Mr. Horman does not offer any evidence that Ms. Horman ever sexted when she should have been parenting. To the contrary Ms. Horman’s lawyers can point to Mr. Horman’s other statements as evidence that Ms. Horman was the primary care giver for James, Kyron, and Kiara. Her extensive collection of family photographs on her Facebook page support this assertion.
Mr. Horman cannot credibly claim that Ms. Horman was a threat to the children, considering that he often left the kids in her care. Mr. Horman did not have any concerns about Ms. Horman’s sobriety and fitness to care for the children the morning Kryon disappeared from school, as he left Kiara in her care and allowed her to take Kyron to school.
If she was a drunk and mean spirited, would Mr. Horman have have allowed Ms. Horman to have access to Kyron’s school records, and to become involved in his discipline? Ms. Horman was a step parent to Kyron. She had no rights except to that which Mr. Horman granted in signed consent forms required by Kyron’s school.
The text messages are racy, but they do not indicate any homicidal tendencies or ill will toward anyone. Nothing in the texts is homicidal by any stretch.
Mr. Horman’s source for his allegations poses a huge problem here. He cites to “law enforcement” as telling him Ms. Horman tried to hire a hit-man, and as to other issues. Not one of these allegations is admissible under any exception to hearsay. The fact that Mr. Horman does not identify the source is a problem in itself. This information might as well be graffiti on the wall of the public bathroom at the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office.
Were Mr. Horman to say that he read an allegation on the a bathroom wall at the MCSO would at least give it some sort of context that would suggest credibility. Mr. Horman’s vague claim makes it impossible to identify which law enforcement office among thousands in the United States might have conveyed such information. Without further identification, the reader cannot tell if the “source” was in a position to have any such knowledge in the first place.
The hearsay allegations offered by Mr. Horman allege child abuse and domestic violence. Under the Confrontation Clause, Ms. Horman has a right to confront her accusers. Ms. Horman does not need to speak in order for her lawyers to cross examine the sources of these allegations.
“..Mr. Horman claims that judges believe there is sufficient information to implicate Ms. Horman in Kyron’s disappearance. This begs the question: How is it that Mr. Horman is getting this information?”
It seems likely that Mr. Horman is referring to search warrants, which require reliable information that the item sought can be found at that location. If Mr. Horman was in fact referring to search warrants, it would be very interesting to find out who provided the information for the searches and what exactly was law enforcement looking for?
If Mr. Horman was the informant, it raises questions as to motive because Mr. Horman wants custody of Kiara. If the landscaper was the affiant, his personal motive for revenge becomes an issue, if it true that Ms. Horman had law enforcement go to his house and expose his extramarital affair in front of his family.
What law enforcement was seeking matters. Ms. Horman’s specialty was in teaching children with learning disabilities. She would have had access to confidential psychological testing, mental health records, medical documents, and possibly, CPS records, none of which could be disclosed except by parent authorization, or pursuant to subpoena or search warrant. Even though she had not worked in that area for some time, she may still have had such records in her home or on her laptop.
If Ms. Horman had such documents or data on her laptop or among her personal papers, she could not turn it over except by subpoena. As such, the mere presence of a search warrant does not mean Ms. Horman is guilty of anything.
..”Mr. Horman’s threat to conduct extensive depositions seems a clear warning to Ms. Horman that he intends to call Ms. Horman’s friends to deposition, put them under oath, and ask them questions. Lots of questions. If Mr. Horman’s pleadings are any sort of a hint, he is not going to make people feel good about befriending Ms. Horman…”
Peter Bunch’s statements at the prior court hearing referencing a December 26 call to 9-1-1 also suggests that maybe something happened the day after Christmas 2009. The implication is that Mr. Bunch intends to discuss that December 26 9-1-1 call in more detail. Don’t expect Mr. Horman to like any of it.
Discovery procedures allow Mr. Horman to get at any information reasonably calculated to lead to discovery of admissible evidence. This does not mean the information specifically sought must be admissible, only that it could reasonably lead to evidence that would be admissible. By that definition, Mr, Horman could justify deposing a great many people in Ms. Horman’s life.
Peter Bunch’s statements at the prior court hearing referencing a December 26 call to 9-1-1 also suggests that maybe something happened the day after Christmas 2009.
Clearly, each of these people has reason to avoid going back to court.
The most confusing aspect of this case is the fact that the restraining order and dissolution were consolidated months ago. Ms. Horman’s attorney notes this in his July 12, 2010, letter to the court.
Given that there is an abatement order in place, how is it that Ms. Horman can go forward with her request for parenting time under the restraining order matter? You would think that Ms. Rackner would have noted this information to the court. But she didn’t. Yet another strange footnote in a even stranger case.
Law enforcement likes to push the weakest link. Ms. Horman seems to be that link. What information does law enforcement hope to gain? Who is law enforcement’s ultimate target?
..”If not Ms. Horman exclusively, or Ms. Horman in any capacity, then who exactly does law enforcement hope to catch by pushing Ms. Horman until she finally breaks?”
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At 11:23pm I posted a link for Partners for Change. If you click on the link, you will see that they helped Friends of Pimpollo and Woodburn Family Learning Center (WFLC).
Partners for Change has a contact name and address:
3700 NW Blacktail Drive Suite 200, McMinnville, OR 97128
A reverse address search shows it as a home address for Ellen Dukehart, not sure how the suite #200 fits in to a home address. Mike Ryan of WFLC thanking Dave and Ellen.
The Oregon Sec. of State shows Partners for Change #603832-97 current and the registered agent is Inspirit Marketing, Inc. #126972-98 Inspirit’s registered agent is named WAYNE SANCHEZ and President Lauralee Beck. (Albany, Lebanon, Salem and Corvalis addresses).
WFLC #088280-14 Mike Ryan – Salem and Lori Simpson – Keiser
There is a Michael Ryan that owns Ryan Creek Farms, LLC #259162-97 and Ryan Farms, Inc. #562448-83(one employee/$160K annual income) located in Aurora near Canby which may sell seed/plants. There are also several public benefit companies listed under Mike Ryan.
Thought I would share the names and possible connections.
http://memberservices.christianchambernorthwest.com/list/searchalpha/I.htm
Wayne Sanchez is the founder of the Christian Chamber of Commerce.
On my last post, just scroll down to Inspirit Marketing and you will see the logo showing Inspirit as founder of the chamber.
@Jden says:
October 29, 2010 at 9:05 am
I have said this from the beginning (and was chastised, might I add) and will not be shocked to learn that KH had a hand in the disappearance of his son, however, this could be what Staton was referring to about the public being shocked. KH has a family history of sexual abuse. At one point I recall reading that there was witnessed two vehicles racing on Sauvie Island on June 4th – a red car and a white truck… but cannot find that link now.
As I read on it appears that the city and state are notorious for wayward behavior, sex and drugs.
————-
With Kaine working at Intel, it would be very easy for LE to verify at least when he was there with all their cameras and security systems in place.
Please do more research before you cast a broad label over the Portland metropolitan area. This area is still a wonderful place to raise a family.
To Blink :
I give great respect to ATTORNEY LEA CONNER for presenting the enormous amount of unbiased information & for taken her precious time to give a straight forward presentation of this case~ with all the facets & turns there are to consider.. I personally dont think either Terri or Kaine have had a sterling homelife but then if we were all under the Media microscope , (the twisting & turning like a kaliascope) how many of us would look golden? And thank you so much Blink for allowing her to present both sides. you knew it would bring contraversy but you allowed the freedom for Lea Conner to present facts maybe some people didnt want to hear, Thank you
1.Idahogal says:
October 29, 2010 at 2:35 pm
My thanks to Ms. Conner and Blink for a thought provoking piece…
Now, I don’t know if MCDA Schrunk is involved in what KH and Rackner are doing here, and so far no one with some expertise on this has answered my earlier question about that. With all due respect to Ms. Rackner, I’m not sure if she is going to be up to par in this situation with Houze via Bunch on the other side. She is a very good divorce lawyer, not a criminal defense lawyer. I think KH may need the assistance and expertise of his own criminal prosecuting attorney, perhaps as a co-counsel, to push on with these matters. I don’t believe that MCDA’s office would get involved in a divorce case, please correct me if I am wrong on any of this. Where is newsatfive or some of our other legal eagles? Perhaps Ms. Conner will address this at some point.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Idahogal, I thought Lea Conner also posted under “newsatfive”, but I could be wrong. BTW, I just read that Rackner once worked as a prosecutor.
Okay, this part is really bugging me:
“What law enforcement was seeking matters. Ms. Horman’s specialty was in teaching children with learning disabilities. She would have had access to confidential psychological testing, mental health records, medical documents, and possibly, CPS records, none of which could be disclosed except by parent authorization, or pursuant to subpoena or search warrant. Even though she had not worked in that area for some time, she may still have had such records in her home or on her laptop.”
Why on earth would we assume that a woman who had NEVER had a full time teaching position and hadn’t even subbed for at least 2 years would have these kinds of records? I call BS on this one. From what I understand from locals she didn’t exactly have an ongoing subbing relationship with any school. Most of the time they sent her packing after dealing with her for a bit. And even if that was her degree, I’m not sure she ever actually worked in special ed.
And I certainly don’t agree with all Kaine’s life choices, but I do understand his apparent inconsistencies to a point. I think most of us that were single past the age of about 16 can think of at least one relationship that seemed amazing and then soured very quickly for some reason. Suddenly that woman we thought was so much fun was really just a shallow drunk, or that guy we thought was the strong silent type is really an unfeeling jerk. Hindsight is 20/20 and at the end of a relationship we tend to exaggerate the worst in our former partners. And I really can’t imagine a worst ending than Kaine is experiencing. Perhaps he is exaggerating Terri’s issues, but I really can’t blame the guy. I’m not exactly remembering her with fondness either.
All JMO of course.
Terri Horman’s Attorneys Reply to Kaine’s Filing:
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20101029/UPDATE/101029049
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Georgia Dad, 11:41 a.m.
Your comment regarding the bolded text: The article was written by Lea and bolded by Blink as an underscore of quotes or comments she believed most newsworthy.
Claro?
OJ Simpson got away with murdering his ex-wife. Slick lawyer. But, alas, he didn’t *really* get away with anything. He is a social pariah. He is shunned. He is despised. He didn’t go to prison for murder, but he is in his own personal prison.
In the spirit of debate, and in good faith, I thought I might try to poke some holes in a couple of assertions in the opposing argument. The following remarks are speculation only as I have never met TMH or KH:
Ms. Conner says: “Mr. Horman does not offer any evidence that Ms. Horman ever sexted when she should have been parenting. To the contrary Ms. Horman’s lawyers can point to Mr. Horman’s other statements as evidence that Ms. Horman was the primary care giver for James, Kyron, and Kiara. Her extensive collection of family photographs on her Facebook page support this assertion.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I were TMH’s lawyers I would not use the photos on FB in this argument. In reviewing the subjects of TMH’s photos on her Facebook page at or around the time of Kyron’s disappearance, I found those featuring Kyron were disproportionately lower than those of Kiara and other family members. An alternate and reasonable conclusion *could* be that she did not value her stepson as much as she valued other family members.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ms. Conner writes, “Mr. Horman also claimed he was unaware of any landscaper, a detail which contradicts his most recent work-from-home story: “No, I did not know we had a landscaper and have never met him.” If he was at home, surely he would have known about a landscaper.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I see no contradiction here at all. *If* it is true that Ms. Horman was sleeping with the LS or perhaps plotting MFH with him, it certainly defies logic to think said LS would be around the house “gardening” when KH was working from home. Also, KH has never said he was working from home every day of the week.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ms. Conner writes, “Which is it? Was Ms. Horman a mean drunk who drank herself to sleep, or was she self-absorbed and social, staying up to all hours playing on the Internet while her child sat in the same room unattended and un-engaged? Or was she a social butterfly who spent most of her time outside the home while Mr. Horman was super dad, working long hours from home, caring for the children, and providing an income that he never could enjoy because Ms. Horman was spending it all? The claims are so disjointed, it is as though Mr. Horman decided to throw spaghetti at the wall, just to see what might stick.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*If* alcohol or personality issues are indeed a part of someone’s interpersonal dynamics, s/he could be all this and MORE. I don’t see this as disjointed at all. I view it as a descripton of an impaired or dsyfunctional human being.
My opinions only, nothing more. Now that I have “simmered down” (as my beloved grandmother would say) I can see this article has generated plenty of grist for the mill. Kudos to Blink and Lea. Cutting edge, indeed!
Nite all.
Excellent piece from Ms. Connor. Thought-provoking. I completely agree with several others that concerning TH, it doesn’t have to be an either she was a mean, neglectful drunk or an involved caregiver. Absolutely both, depending on the day, the time or whatever.
This comes from first-hand experience. I lived it for 17 years. Times parent was sober, happier and all the kids in the neighborhood played at our house, stayed the night, thought parent was super-cool and super-fun. Times when parent poured vodka into coffee cups at 7 am, passed out in the bathroom, and my brother and I went to bed hungry. Other times parent would volunteer for school events, buy us presents for no reason and treat us to Happy Meals. Times parent left us in the car in a bar parking lot for hours and drove all over town drunk.
Not meaning to get so personal,or off topic but, believe me, some people can “somewhat function” like this for most of their lives. It’s quite possible TH could go day to day like that, too.
My last comment was intended to imply that even if TH “gets away” with being involved with Ky’s demise, she won’t *really* get away with it. People will know, and they will shun her.
Questions:
KH is trying to establish to the court that TH is a danger to Kiaria and that she did something to kyron. Correct?
He also is trying to convince the courts that he has inside knowledge of the investigation. He has these texting with Cook which he said he received from LE. correct?
The texting with Cook took place AFTER KH filed the restraining order,divorce papers were served anD Kiara was no longer in contact with TH.
So this evidence that he produced in a divorce and custody affidavit has NO relevance to who she is as a wife and mother prior to the papers being served.
Now, if LE is keeping him fully briefed and judges are giving him their opinions and he has access to TH texting with Cook. And he is trying to establish she is a danger to her children. And LE certainly has her phone and texting and computer history prior to June 26th, then why not produce something relevant to his marriage, or something from earlier that doesn’t pertain to the investigation but shows something questionable behavior as a wife and mother?
Here is a father of a boy who went missing, found out about a MFH, under extreme emotional strain and LE doesn’t give him a briefing on the situation with TH they gave him these texts with his wife sexting another man TO READ IN DETAIL, because they thought it would do what? Make him feel better? Make him take his mind off the loss of his son? Or to provoke him? JMO
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/cityregion/25477419-46/horman-terri-court-destruction-focused.csp
Missing boy’s father, stepmother trade new charges in court filings
The woman’s lawyer says her husband seeks her “destruction”
The Associated Press
Appeared in print: Saturday, Oct 30, 2010
PORTLAND — Lawyers for the stepmother of a Portland area boy missing nearly five months fired back Friday to her estranged husband’s latest court filings that argued that she should not have contact with the couple’s young daughter.
In court papers, Terri Horman’s divorce lawyer Peter Bunch and her criminal defense lawyer Stephen Houze said Kaine Horman is focused on his wife’s destruction rather than on little Kiara’s best interests.
“It is becoming evident that Father’s mission is to completely destroy and sabotage the mother-child relationship,” the lawyers wrote.
Kaine Horman alleged in court documents filed Monday that Terri Horman is an alcoholic who suffers from an “undiagnosed personality disorder” and that giving her custody of their 2-year-old daughter could endanger the child.
“The sole issue that needs to be addressed in Mother’s motion is whether there are appropriate, supervised circumstances under which Kiara can be reunited with her mother,” Houze and Bunch wrote. “However, rather than making a long-range and reasoned assessment of what is in Kiara’s best interests, Father is focused on Mother’s destruction.”
Authorities have focused on Terri Horman during their investigation into the June 4 disappearance of 8-year-old Kyron Horman from his school in a rural Portland area, but have not called her a suspect or a person of interest. She was the last person known to have seen the boy that day.
In his recent affidavit, Kaine Horman referred to what he termed his wife’s failed polygraph tests and repeated his assertion that she was involved in his son’s disappearance.
He also attached 17 pages of graphic text messages from late June to early July between Terri Horman and a high school friend of his, Michael Cook.
Cook has acknowledged “sexting” with Terri Horman as investigators searched for Kyron, but has said they did not have sex.
Oregonian article from yesterday: “Kaine Horman trying to destroy estranged wife Terri Horman with vicious court filings” her lawyers say in motion filed Friday:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_trying_to_destroy.html
Not storm the castle when we feel like it law, but the kind that protects all until the time a person is judged to not be worthy of it.
Someone getting away with a heinous crime against a child would light my torch for sure. I am attempting to avoid that.
B
*********
I love you visual for this Halloween weekend. I wish we could storm the castle, but since we live in a society that respects the legal system we have developed over 200 plus years we as citizens will not storm on foot but will storm in our minds to find truth. Blink, thanks for allowing us to light a virtually torch and letting us do what we can to find out what happened to Kyron.
It is time to call in the experts! rgc
Wake up people
something is happening
I just heard Terri is fighting back
need a link. LOL
I got up at 5AM
The circumstances of this case is an unusual combination of family law and criminal law so I completely understand Lea’s take on the newest filing in that all attorney’s are trying to control the direction the case goes along with predicting how the criminal aspect will play out. Couple that with the personal desires of each client and they, like never before, need to be on the ball.
This seems to be a precedent setting case, something most attorneys chomp at the bit for. That said, is it possible Houze is doing this pro bono for his client? Could that be why his representation is neither accomplished through payment nor a gift? Seems they would just come out and say that, though, unless there were some legal manuevering I’m not aware of.
All that aside, I’m confused as to why some folks are willing to ignore the multitude of mistakes the parents of Kyron have made? Neither Kaine nor Desiree are victims here. They each made choices with regards to their child that were not in the best interest of their child.
I would do everything within my power to raise my own baby because no other woman could love my child the way I can. Were my spouse to treat my child poorly we would immediately be in marital counseling to figure out why. Should my spouse not change their behavior to create a peaceful and loving environment then said spouse would have to go.
You know why? Because NOTHING trumps raising healthy and productive individuals. Raising is not even the right word, CREATING is more apt. We literally create people, not just through inception, but many many years after that. How can we as a society change outcomes? By changing our approach to family life, particularly the little people.
The only way we can do that is with a forthright approach, objectively considering where we’ve been and what we can do better. Not that Kaine or Desiree are bad people, just folks who were too wrapped up in themselves to put their children first.
Which MOST people do today. It’s accepted and the primary reason we have the social ills we have. My life is very busy and high pressure… I work, take care of my father in law and mother who are both ill, make time for my daughter who is happily living indepently and doing well, and raising two boys who live at home. It’s not a slow and easy road but I look around at what my husband and I have created and know we’ve contributed because our parents will leave this world in peace and our children will go on to become happy and productive people.
See, I CHOSE to have babies and now it’s my responsibility to do it right. I sacrifice along the way but that’s what parenting is about. Were I to make mistakes and people were to suffer because of that, well then I would have to accept the criticism that comes with that.
I don’t even think Terri is evil, I just think she’s messed up in the head. And I bet we can go all the way back to the childhood of both Kaine and Terri to see what these behaviors stem from. Once that’s done we need to own what causes these behaviors (molestation? abandonment? neglect? lack of boundaries? lack of consequences? etc…) and reclaim our right to healthy living.
We can feel compassion and still retain understanding of what went wrong. Without that we will never accomplish change.
I say all of this with Kyron’s image and impression in my heart. He’s in a place where no judgement is needed, that’s for us here in the realm. And yet his life had a purpose. Let’s make the most of that.
Blink: Your worst nightmare just may come true. Houze is already working on his “follow the law” strategy that he is so famous for.
Start reading at line 18 on the courtesy copy of the Houze/Bunch motion filed late yesterday to see him at work (as he should be, in service of his client and the law):
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/hormanfiling.pdf
Anyone willing to listen to me now? Atty Conner, like her analysis or not, is exactly right-
Rackner is a former DDA, hello?
B
Don’t we just see foreshadowing of a civil suit against Kaine in the last line of the Bunch/Houze Motion?
“The full extent of the harm to Mother caused by these tactics is far-reaching, unacceptable, and likely irreparable.”
Irreparable harm.
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/hormanfiling.pdf
Beejay, you got that right.
I am dismayed. Houze is a, I think I may have described him as “scalpular” criminal defense attorney. I do not say that like I enjoy it while there is a child missing, I say it because it is a fact.
B
Found on Oregonlive
S said: I also do not think TH is saying she is upset that Kaine does not know what Kitty’s favorite blanket or toy is, I think this was just part of her lie to DeDe and her attorney as the excuse to go “for a drive” while she was really trying to get some from MC. She just told DeDe that she was really upset about Kitty being without her fav blanket, but was not actually upset since she hightailed it over to MC’s place for some arm wrestling.
@S-these were my thoughts exactly. That was just the excuse she gave Dede.
@Miss Monkey on same topic: I am right there with you in agreement. She did indeed ask MC to cover up and it wasnt a concern for Kitty. Your post was very well said indeed!
@Kleat: I agree that “his story” is changing because he is desperate to get his son back, and to keep his daughter safe. Without painting a picture of a mentally ill TMH, the desire for a professional shrink to look at her closely would not happen, right? Normally they dont get a shrink involved without reason. I believe he is trying to paint a reason.
MOO
OOH. This is a civil procedure. Can’t TH’s attys file an injunction??
“Irreparable harm” in a civil procedure–Terri can’t be made whole by money damages, so an injunction should be an option to stop the damaging actions. Am I totally offbase here?
Help! Blink?? Lea??
Kaine’s filing doesn’t talk about the specific time frame (besides for “five year history of alcohol impairment”) of Terri’s alcohol abuse and whether it was continual or did it increase recently. Kitty doesn’t look (facially) like she has fetal alcohol affect and she seems right on or above benchmark for development. Maybe it was something that recurred in the six months prior to Kyron’s disappearance and could account for the weight gain. And maybe it was coping for feeling like she was trapped in a bad marriage or dangerous relationship (RS). Regardless, I think it should be added to Mockingbirdsings’ list of possible triggers.
Thank you Ms. Connor for your legal analysis. I found it very interesting and it really points out an important issue. I don’t believe that Mr. Horman had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance, but I think his attorney’s strategy is wrong. If all of these issues with Terri were going on that he was aware of, then why did he leave Kiara and Kyron in her care? Why would he even allow her to drive Kyron to school? These are issues that I have seen come up all the time in custody court and juvenile court when I worked in child protective services. I have seen judge’s flat out ask the parent “okay so you’re making all these allegations now, if you were so concerned where was this concern when you were still dating or married to the other party?” Again, I’m not trying to place blame on Mr. Horman, I hope I understood the article correctly. I am in the process of leaving an emotionally abusive relationship/unhealthy relationship and I know how hard it is. My ex has a lot of the problems Ms. Horman seems to have and I ignored all the red flags, I can’t imagine how hard it would be to leave if I had children and/or was married to this person so I completely sypmathize with Kaine.
Lea Conner: excellent post. Could you address Mr. Bunch’s and Mr. Houze’s counter claim that Kaine Horman’s inclusion of the texts and mentions of the failed polygraphs are “improper and sanctionable” actions and “violate state civil procedure”? (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_trying_to_destroy.html) What sanctions can be imposed in this situation? Thanks if you can answer.
Parental Alienation Syndrome and Parental Alienation Disorder are very real conditions, and hopefully the APA will see fit to include them in the DSM soon. Kaine Horman’s vindictiveness may be understandable since he believes Terri may be involved in some capacity in Kyron’s disappearance, but someone needs to intervene here on behalf of baby Kiara and explain to him how destroying all affection between her and her mother will warp her for a lifetime and affect all her future relationships. Even IF Terri is eventually arrested and found guilty of something in this case, there are psychologically gentler ways of helping Kiara cope with this. (And yes, I am making the assumption that the nasty tone of and accusations included in Kaine Horman’s filing is the way he talks/will talk to Kiara about her mother.)
enumclawrose says:
October 29, 2010 at 7:19 pm
TH’s nature v. nurture question is also interesting given her being adopted (relax, I can say this, I was adopted, too). Perhaps her bio-family put her up for adoption due to their own mental instabilities which are often time inherited.
enumclawrose,
I knew there was a reason I so often focused on your posts and why you seemed to me a kindred spirit of sorts. Not many people even question the adoption aspect, but it often does play a larger part than people think. One thing you forgot to mention, which may or may not play into this at all is that Kaine himself was also adopted. So you have two adoptees married to each other. It’s often tragic enough when there is only one emotionally wounded one in a relationship, let alone two potentially lost souls in a marriage trying to figure out what’s normal and how to make it work. I too know where you’re coming from … I was adopted too {:) Same year, same age as TMH, unfortunately (but diff state thankfully).
On a side note, I know this doesn’t really assist in finding Ky, but a burning question in the back of my mind recently has been if she ever actually FOUND her birthmother. I know she filled out a form which lead me to believe she was at some point trying to initiate one, but not sure if she ever actually found her birth family. I am dying to know this, because in some ways, it potentially very important and it definitely can make one suddenly very emotional and somewhat irrational. Long story short … been there done that.
Kaine himself commented that TMH appeared okay up until around a few mths after Kitty’s birth. What I want to know is when did TMH first initiate her search and did she ever find anyone in her birth family? I can’t find any dates online in regard to that.
RE-POSTING FROM PREVIOUS THREAD–May give insight into WHO was around TMH AFTER KH Moved out…
PART #1
Rich M. says:
October 28, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Running down the timeline and I hope it helps someone:
6/28 OL: By 8 p.m. Monday, at least four friends had driven up the gravel driveway at Terri Horman’s blue, two-story house set in woodlands in rural northwest Multnomah County to console their embattled friend after learning of the divorce.
Now, more than ever, I wonder who the “four friends” are.
6/30 OL: TMH mom is with her now. Possibly dad too? MC was quoted by OL as saying he has had contact with KH. When did reporter of this story asked MC about KH as quoted in the article if he was out all day with his son?? Oh thats right, when he drove up the driveway at 4pm with supplies for TMH and friends/family. RO was still sealed at time of the article. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/terri_moulton_horman_focus_of.html
Later that day on 6/30 TMH and Houze come and go: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/terri_moulton_horman_retains_p.html
Here they report more on MC and his list of supplies: He parked among the 10 or so news vehicles hugging the shoulder on Sheltered Nook Road, dropped off a cooler filled with beverages — an olive branch to the cameramen and reporters — then drove up to the home and dropped off 12-packs of Coca-Cola and 7-Up, bottles of Arrowhead water, Hefty kitchen garbage bags, Quaker Chewy granola bars and catfood.
I wonder if he just hid the booze? Clearly Dede was making drinks for TMH by then. Note the time on the texts where she says “Dede made me a drink about an hour ago”. Funny, that is right around the start of the text messages (at least the ones we are shown. Part of an earlier text is cut off).
7/1 Restraining order still closed.
RE-POSTING FROM PREVIOUS THREAD–May give insight into WHO was around TMH AFTER KH Moved out…
PART #2
Rich M. says:
October 28, 2010 at 5:27 pm
7/2 Restraining order still closed. 7/12 date set in court to open it up.
Texts jump to 7/3 where TMH discusses “clean phone”. Dirty phones and flashing are discussed.
7/4 texts reference ugly story by the Oregonian, which I assume is the revelation of the MFH plot. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html
A few hours later as texts are turning to sexts: TMH makes references to bugs and lack of safety outside the phone. TMH makes references to meeting tomorrow (7/5) at 6 and he said he should be home by then but mentions the fact that her place isn’t safe to meet. Also that she only had 1 hour of sleep the might before.
7/5 Texts: had meeting with Houze in AM, DDS to be there at 4 despite the supposed 6 pm rendezvous. TMH has something to tell him in person. The texts are cut off at this point/date.
7/5 Presser with KH and DY asking TMH to cooperate
RE-POSTING FROM PREVIOUS THREAD–May give insight into WHO was around TMH AFTER KH Moved out…
PART #3
7/6 Text banter about seeing him later. More details are released in the news about the MFH.
7/6 Letter sent to judge saying that RO does not need to be sealed anymore via news reports that come out next day. End of day texts “hoping we are in a good place”.
7/7 Media release of DA telling the judge that the orders no longer need to be sealed.
Text banter says that TMH asked MC to lie about seeing her cuz her lawyer would be pissed. St. Michael said he didn’t want to lie and said she shouldn’t either. :cough: Last text on the exhibit was around 8:40 AM on the 7th but clearly some was cut off.
7/8 KH requests that judge ask TMH to move out of the house. Judge officially lifts seal on RO. KH and DY have official presser asking TMH to cooperate with LE.
7/12 Rackner files to hold TMH in contempt for showing RO to MC and seeking KH whereabouts. Media reports that the sexual overtures were similar to those between TMH and RS.
7/14 Even though hearing to push TMH out of house is set for 7/22, Rackner requests expedition.
7/15 Houze requests time for TMH to get out of house citing threats to her well being and logistics, in front of a judge. Judge states he will decide on 7/16.
7/16 Meeting with judge cancelled and TMH agrees to be out Saturday afternoon (7/17.)
7/17 TMH moves in with Mommy and Daddy and is not heard from in public save the divorce hearing.
THANKS RICH M FOR “TIME-LINE”
link for the texts pls
ty
Blink’s site has been enjoyable due to the genuine care and concern shown here for the victims and their families, along with the expectation that there be civil discourse among commenters.
This analysis, however, unfathomably heaps personal criticism on the grieving father of a still-missing child, a father Blink herself believes had no part in his only son’s disappearance. It goes far beyond describing the legal weaknesses of Kaine Horman’s representation, described as its purpose. It portrays Kaine as untruthful, second guesses his words and actions, and repeatedly names him personally for criticism of the decisions made as the investigation evolved under the direction of LE/counsel.
Further, assumptions of Kaine’s untruthfulness are based upon erroneous premises, of which just a few are outlined below for brevity.
1. “A review of these document reveals that Ms. Horman never asked Mr. Cook to lie…”
————————
With all due respect, in the “sexts” TH clearly asked Mr. Cook to lie about her coming to his house, and he responded that he would not do so if asked.
2. “A parent who does not care about her daughter would not waste a single moment worrying about her child having her favorite toy or blanket.”
and
“The allegation that Mr. Horman did not know such basic information about his daughter provides motive for Mr. Horman to attempt to discredit Ms. Horman’s words as insincere.”
—————————-
In the sexts, TH clearly told Mr. Cook she would falsely use concern about Kitty as a lie in case she got “in trouble” from her attorney for going to his house.
In spite of TH’s pre-planned, documented decision to USE HER INNOCENT LITTLE DAUGHTER IN A LIE TO COVER UP HER OWN ACTIONS, the author seeks to legitimize the words of this self-proclaimed lying mother as truthful, then using these words to make assumptions about Kaine’s parenting and as a basis to assign a “motive” for Kaine to lie.
3. “The portrait of a social butterfly chatting people up at the gym for hours on end doesn’t quite fit with Mr. Horman’s other claims that she was an angry, depressed new mother who drank her self blotto and could not maintain any sort of civility toward those around her. Which is it?”
—————————-
My personal life-long experience speaks to the author’s incorrect assumption that Kaine’s assessments of TH don’t “quite fit”. His assessment is a perfect description of my own mother – whose children (and spouse) still live with the devastating effects of her private addictions/abuse while simultaneously prioritizing the image she portrayed to those on the outside as an outgoing, involved caring mother.
At this time, none of us know the entire truth involving any of the parties in Kyron’s case. Perhaps we will someday, perhaps we will not. However, this piece – which negatively targets a grieving father while his only son is still missing and he is fighting to protect his only daughter – has no place on a site like this in my opinion.
My heart goes out to Kaine, Desiree, Tony, James and Kiara and all who love Kyron. Kyron, may God and his angels hold you in their care.
RE-POSTING FROM PREVIOUS THREAD–May give insight into WHO was around TMH AFTER KH Moved out…
Lea Conner says:
October 29, 2010 at 4:42 am
panda says: October 28, 2010 at 10:02 pm
“Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
‘I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.””
——————–
“Could it be that releasing the texts was Rackner’s way of aiding in reciprocal discovery?”
Peter Bunch is referring to the state’s duty to disclose exculpatory evidence prior to a criminal trial. It is not “reciprocal discovery” in the civil sense. This is information that comes from the state to the defendant.
However, if you read the civil rules, Mr. Bunch and Stephen Houze can get at that information right now by forcing the state to produce its witnesses and evidence, and to allow Ms. Horman’s lawyers the opportunity to conduct cross examination.
Kaine Horman is making allegations of domestic violence and child abuse. The Confrontation Clause applies, which means Terri Horman has the absolute right to confront her accusers and conduct cross examination. This is why Ms. Horman’s lawyers have the ability to demand the state put up or shut up.
Maybe her lawyers think it would be better not to pursue this avenue right now. Or maybe they are afraid of what might come out in court.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
puzzled says: October 28, 2010 at 4:32 pm
“Question?? why would a divorce attorney have evidence in a criminal investigation and will they have to turn the sext/texts over to respondent in discovery?”
In this case, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young are receiving updates from law enforcement because their child is missing. This is not the same as the state offering to help Mr. Horman litigate his divorce.
In reality, the state is supposed to be hands-off with private civil litigation. The state works on behalf of the people of the state (or county), not private individuals.
What makes this case strange is that you have a stepfather who is in law enforcement, and the mother of a missing child (the wife of the law enforcement officer) who has never liked the child’s stepmother, who has become the de facto suspect in a criminal investigation.
There is a great potential for the state to be drawn into a case in which the state has no business involving itself, and for the parents to use the information they legitimately obtain from the state in a missing persons case to get revenge on someone who they believe is involved.
Even if everyone if playing it by the book, the problem becomes the potential appearance of wrongdoing.
There is a separate problem that Mr. Horman has created by using information he received from investigators in his divorce. In doing so, he opened the door to Ms. Horman forcing Mr. Horman to put on his witnesses and provide all of the information he has to back up his claims. The state may not be ready to go on this, but Mr. Horman has forced the issue.
TYPO/DELETE:
“May give insight into WHO was around TMH AFTER KH Moved out” @October 30, 2010 at 3:11 pm
THANKS
@cd, justice, and kimberly: I left you a msg. at the last thread (Hormans in family court) to let’s meet up here. To respond to your msgs. to me:
justice: actually it was cd that mentioned the blue containers maybe being used for school projects. Wasn’t me. I was more thinking in terms of what the searchers at Sauvie Island were told they were to look for. Which was, IIRC, a container–possibly a suitcase or duffel bag. The blue Rubbermaid would be a possibility, too. Just wasn’t specifically stated to the searchers.
kimberly: I do not know about a roving maintenance person. I can’t remember, but I guess you’re in the Portland area–same school system as Skyline? If so, can you find out the job title for the roving person you spoke of? Or, look at the appropriate school district’s website to see if you see any possibilities?
Could TMH mortgaged the house to pay for Houze? Is that why Kaine is bring up the house after the fact?
@ Beejay…re: conversational spanish program. you should get your local library. At my local library – they have Rosetta stone; and online conversation classes that you can use for free for a period of time
I have taken Lea’s comment:
“There is a separate problem that Mr. Horman has created by using information he received from investigators in his divorce. In doing so, he opened the door to Ms. Horman forcing Mr. Horman to put on his witnesses and provide all of the information he has to back up his claims. The state may not be ready to go on this, but Mr. Horman has forced the issue.” -Lea Conner
to show AGAIN WHY what is happening in the DA/LE case of Kyron’s disappearance & the MFH plot against KH is NOW part of the DIVORCE case. This is NOT what a DA would want- having to GIVE INFO PRIOR to TRIAL, especially in a non=criminal case to boot.
What Lea has shown us, is the legal standing that RESPONDENT NOW HAS– The PETITIONER has OPEN the door WIDE.
A Judge IS NOT there to see who has the MOST sympathy. The Judge is there to APPLY the LAW to the case.
Bunch has stated in his filing he is ONE of the attorneys in the DIVORCE case. Houze is the other attorney we know TMH has for her criminal defense & he is known for “following/applying” the letter of the law in ANY case he is involved in.
So, Lea was being rather ‘gentle’ is her analysis of the divorce proceedings.
The Respondent has been given “lemons” & now have the opportunity to make A LOT of LEMONADE.
JMHO
The “true” question is WHERE is Kyron.
We say “The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.”
But what we have seen/learned/heard is on-ramps/off-ramps, streets closed, one-ways & merging together but NOT “straight”.
I believe that is what has “slowed” LE. all “these detours” to Kyron.
IMOO The PETITIONER’S divorce as it is being ‘handled @ this point’ could de-rail the DA/LE case.
JMHO
Well, if you look at KH’s filing from a purely psychological perspective, it makes sense. He is operating in a state of extreme, unimaginable stress and psychic pain. His only son is missing and is presumed dead. He is not a lawyer. What I do not understand is why his attorney would allow this type of information in the filing. What did she really hope to accomplish?
That being said, I do see some posturing in TMH’s filing. Hopefully Lea will do an in-depth analysis of it as well.
Quote From Lea Conner “There is a separate problem that Mr. Horman has created by using information he received from investigators in his divorce. In doing so, he opened the door to Ms. Horman forcing Mr. Horman to put on his witnesses and provide all of the information he has to back up his claims. The state may not be ready to go on this, but Mr. Horman has forced the issue.”
Perhaps this strategy was orchestrated by LE, since Terri may have to acquiesce to testify and or/evaluation. Terri’s lawyers may also have only filed on the visitation issue to get a glimpse of what evidence LE has, since they can’t access it any other way and their client might not be fully disclosing information to them. This is a strategy that could clearly backfire, as it paints Terri as only interested in seeking visitation at the behest of her lawyers(who are doing it only to bolster the criminal case).
@ Dee says:
October 29, 2010 at 8:01 pm
_____________________
What I want is to learn enough conversational spanish to get by in conversation–not reading. I thought that I could avoid having to learn a lot of the “castilian” verbs that way. Maybe it doesn’t matter, like you said. Thanks for the info.
*****************
@ mag603 says:
October 30, 2010 at 3:35 pm
___________________
Many thanks for the tip about Rosetta Stone at the library!
Blink if Terri is a danger to her daughter like Kaine claims why is child protective srvs not involved. Surely police can bring them into this case .. right?
@enumclawrose: I followed all your links, and think I see how they’re related logically. Wayne Sanchez’ relatives (per veromi’s database) all sound like American-born names. So, I didn’t see any link to “our” Sanchez folks.
Where I am there have been these organizations promoting Christian-owned businesses doing business with same. Looks like that’s what’s going on here. The Touchstone product is another Christian business, selling a business-mgt. product. Could all just be coincidental??
I know we’re all hoping for more. What’s on your mind here?
(From Lea Conner)
“I have not heard anything about what was on her laptop. Maybe Blink has some insight on this”?
Blink, do you have any insight?
I have read in a few places that a child at Skyline had claimed that he/she saw Terri “hiding under the stairs.” If this did happen, I’ve been thinking how that would play out on June 4. Was she hiding from the kidnapper instead of waiting for Kyron to meet up with her?
Did someone go to Skyline not to kidnap Kyron, but to get Terri?
And because Terri is self-absorbed, scared, realizes that she’s been followed to the school by someone she and Kyron and even school personnel know, and realizes she’s about to be exposed for whatever she’s done to this guy, the guy’s plan falls apart. At some point he realizes he can’t grab Terri.
So he grabs Kyron?
Regarding reports that there was already an investigation going on prior to June 4 — Terri was being investigated? Or Terri had provided info to LE who were investigating someone — such as RS? She didn’t tell Kaine about this?
Everything goes wrong on June 4 and poor Kyron suffers for it.
In this case, anything is possible. The sexting texts have made me suspect, due to her language about phones and her paranoia, that Terri Horman was definitely in deep doo-doo before June 4.
I’m looking around other sites and old comments here about RS. Where is this guy?
Does he still have Kryon and just can’t be found? Is that what Kaine believes she knows? Is that why he at one time urged everyone to be “patient?”
Houze stated that even convicts in jail get visitation with their child.
I wonder why Houze didn’t state precedent of Mothers convicted of killing their own step child that subsequently get court ordered jailhouse visitation with their surviving child?
I suppose surviving children do visit their brother’s killers, but is it true the courts force them to? And is the convicted killer really able to exercise parenting in that circumstance?
I realize TH isn’t convicted, but Houze brought up the jailhouse scenario and it has made me stop and think. If court ordered parenting time is practiced by known child killers, then why should there be objection to parenting time by only suspected child killers? She’s the parent, get out of the way and let her do her thing.
Sandy says on October 29, 2010 at 1:58 pm: “….This is about Kitty. Her birthday is coming up…. quickly. Let’s hope Kaine does the right thing and allows Kitty to spend at least half the day with the mother she loves.”
I would not automatically assume that Kiara would benefit from this. Just because there’ s a biological connection does not mean that Kiara would psychologically benefit. Simply because they share DNA. We simply do not know the current psychological disposition of Terri or Kiara. There are far too many RED FLAGS here.
To ignore them is to FAIL Kiara. And don’t you think our court system has failed enough children?
Think poor little 4 year old Ethan Stacy who lived with his dad and was forced by a court order to visit his bio mom where was brutally abused and murdered by her consent. Think Zahra Baker abused by her stepmother and now missing and presumed murdered. And how can we forget Kyron … also missing and very possibly murdered. His predator remains at large.
We have got to stop assuming that Kiara NEEDS to visit her mother. Someone has to stand up for this little girl’s best interest and if the court won’t do it, then Kaine should. And I believe he is.
Don’t get me wrong – you are correct that most children automatically love their mothers and sudden separations can be detrimental and rectified as best as possible. But this is not true for all children, all women, all the time.
I think it’s grossly irresponsible and potentially hazardous to think otherwise.
FYI, I am a stay at home mom. Even I don’t support Kiara visiting with her mother at this time.