Kyron Horman Case Update: Blinkoncrime.com Legal Analyst Lea Conner Weighs In
Portland, OR- Please Welcome Again blinkoncrime.com Contributing Editor And Legal Analyst, Washington Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner.
Although I am not licensed in Oregon, I grew up there and was a news reporter for several years in that state, during which time I covered the cops and courts beat. My practice in Washington state deals in family law matters. As such, I can comment as to my knowledge of family law and court proceedings, but my comments are general analysis, not legal advice.
Kaine Horman’s pleadings of October 25, 2010, unleashed a tempest of charges against his wife, claiming she was a raging drunk whose inability to control her anger and her drinking had already caused her to give up custody of one child prior to the disappearance of her stepson on June 4, 2010. Unlike his prior, more tersely-written court filings, Mr. Horman’s words are more personal and angry. They are also contradicted by his prior statements to the court and to the media, and the very documentation he provided as part of his October 25 court papers.
The latest round of pleadings from Mr. Horman seems to fit a far bigger effort by Mr. Horman and Desiree Young to push Ms. Horman to the point where she would be forced to speak in her own defense. Ms. Horman’s own writings within days of Kryon’s disappearance evidence her Achilles heel in that Ms. Horman complained loudly about criticism heaped upon her via the internet.
What followed was a whisper campaign of purported law enforcement leaks about Ms. Horman and people around her that has continually kept her name in the news since June 4, 2010. Mr. Horman’s court filings also evidence an effort to keep Ms. Horman under constant public scrutiny, by filing multiple motions over time that could have been either avoided or filed jointly.
Consider this: Kaine Horman failed to mention in his June 28, 2010, restraining order application that he wanted his wife out of the house and, as a result, on July 1, 2010, filed an amended petition for restraints and asked for an expedited hearing.
“..This omission is an odd oversight, considering that Mr. Horman filed for divorce, took the parties’ child, but failed to ask for the house. Possession of the family home is such a basic issue it would seem impossible for a family law attorney to forget to mention it in a party’s opening paper…”
Filing a separate motion to seek return of the family home seems like a good strategy for someone seeking to keep the focus on Ms. Horman. It’s new information to the media, whereas the fact that Kryon remained missing and Mr. Horman and Ms. Young’s suspicions about Ms. Horman were yesterday’s headline.
Early on in criminal investigation and prior to the divorce filing, Mr. Horman described his wife in benign terms. As the weeks stretch on, these descriptions became increasingly negative. Mr. Horman and Ms. Young both stated their objective was to keep the focus on Kyron. In the absence of anything new to report, both parents embarked on a campaign to slowly heap increasing pressure on Ms. Horman to talk.
From the law enforcement perspective, Ms. Horman is a natural suspect, given her relationship to the victim and the fact that she was the last person known to have been seen with him. Except for anonymous leaks and rumors, the only people who have put their names to allegations are Mr. Horman and Kyron’s mother Desiree Young. Both claim their information comes from law enforcement, but both have disagreed at times as to the credibility of the information they shared publicly. Such was the case with Ms. Young’s claim that Kyron was last seen outside the school near a white truck, while Mr. Horman quickly corrected her, saying the information had not been confirmed.
“..Without Ms. Young and Det. Tony Young in the room, Mr. Horman seems to have gone off script and now cannot control his message nor his anger. Mr. Horman angrily complains about horrible things that might have happened in front of Kiara, yet he cannot say what exactly became of Kyron, and whether there is any evidence to suggest Kiara was a witness to this unspecified event…”
In his most recent pleadings, Mr. Horman angrily recounts that Ms. Horman claimed she was going to the gym, but since their separation, he has come to believe that she spent the time talking to people and flirting. The portrait of a social butterfly chatting people up at the gym for hours on end doesn’t quite fit with Mr. Horman’s other claims that she was an angry, depressed new mother who drank her self blotto and could not maintain any sort of civility toward those around her.
Which is it? Was Ms. Horman a mean drunk who drank herself to sleep, or was she self-absorbed and social, staying up to all hours playing on the Internet while her child sat in the same room unattended and un-engaged? Or was she a social butterfly who spent most of her time outside the home while Mr. Horman was super dad, working long hours from home, caring for the children, and providing an income that he never could enjoy because Ms. Horman was spending it all? The claims are so disjointed, it is as though Mr. Horman decided to throw spaghetti at the wall, just to see what might stick.
Mr. Horman’s over-reaching was fore shadowed in an earlier motion filed on July 12, 2010, alleging Ms. Horman had violated the courts seal on the restraining order. The pleadings in the contempt matter went well beyond Mr. Horman’s claim that Ms. Horman allegedly disclosed confidential court papers to Michael Cook.
Mr. Horman asserted that Ms. Horman was involved with a sexual relationship with Mr. Cook and had sent him hundreds of text messages, most of which were sexual in nature (AKA “sexting”). These text messages allegedly included images of “graphic sexual activity,” though no such photos have been filed with the court.
“..Mr. Horman accused Ms. Horman of lacking any genuine affection for Kyron or Kiara saying that although her texts said she missed both children, the mentions were few. The implication of the narrative was that Ms. Horman could not possibly care about either child…”
Except for the specific passage alleging Ms. Horman shared a confidential document with Mr. Cook, none of the other allegations had anything to do with the underlying motion. None of these claims addressed the issue of whether Ms. Horman violated the court order, nor do they indicate any involvement by Ms. Horman in Kyron’s disappearance.
Mr. Horman went on to claim that an unnamed member or members of law enforcement “informed” him that the sexualized text messages “resemble” text messages sent to the “the man Respondent [Ms. Horman] previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner [Mr. Horman].” Mr. Horman claimed in the same July 1 2court papers that Ms. Horman had asked Mr. Cook to lie to her attorney about “the fact that she had gone to Mr. Cook’s home.”
One news outlet found Mr. Horman’s pleadings so lurid it titled the document “sleazy.pdf” before posting it to its website.
On October 25, 2010, Mr. Horman finally filed the aforementioned text messages with the court, as an exhibit attached to his response to Ms. Horman’s parenting time request. A review of these document reveals that Ms. Horman never asked Mr. Cook to lie, nor did she speak of Kyron and Kiara in dismissive tones. Although most of the texts showed varying degrees of sexual discussion, there were also several texts that had nothing to do with Ms. Horman’s romantic attachments. Ms. Horman discussed cooking, eating “nutterbutter bites,” weight lifting, and their respective children.
..”Ms. Horman told Mr. Cook, “I was really upset that Kaine has Kitty but doesn’t know what her favorite toy or blanket is.”
-Terri Horman
A parent who does not care about her daughter would not waste a single moment worrying about her child having her favorite toy or blanket. The allegation that Mr. Horman did not know such basic information about his daughter provides motive for Mr. Horman to attempt to discredit Ms. Horman’s words as insincere. Otherwise, Ms. Horman’s words are truthful and reflect her historical relationship as primary care giver to both children.
On July 28, 2010, Mr. Horman filed yet another motion demanding Ms. Horman reveal the source of funds used to pay her lawyer. It was as though Mr. Horman was asking how Ms. Horman could have ever come up with that kind of money, given her status as a social pariah?
The problem with Mr. Horman’s strategy of piecemeal litigation it does not serve the purpose of expediting litigation. Instead, it creates a lot of embarrassment and harassment for Ms. Horman.
Oregon is a no-fault divorce state. This means that either party can ask for a divorce without having to prove any wrongdoing. Oregon is also an “equitable distribution” state which means that the court divides property equitably between the parties. Issues like infidelity and rude behavior are not factors in whether a party is entitled to divorce, or in dividing up the parties assets.
Mr. Horman raises several issues about Ms. Horman’s alleged conduct citing them as as basis to award sole custody and care of Kiara. The allegations are such that it becomes difficult for Ms. Horman to leave any responses up to her lawyer, who would not have personal knowledge required to speak to the many issues he raises.
Ultimately, the court will consider the allegations made by each party, weigh the credibility and relevance of each claim as to parenting issues then enter a temporary order as to the care and custody of the child.
Mr. Horman claims in his October 25 filings that Ms. Horman has a five year history of alcohol impairment. In his statement to the court, Mr. Horman claimed that his wife “could have an un diagnosed personality disorder or some type of emotional disturbance.”
The most recent claims by Mr. Horman are contradicted by his prior assertions in media interviews, and the actual chronology of the Hormans’ relationship.
Mr. Horman met Ms. Horman in the spring of 2002. According to Mr. Horman, the couple moved in together in December 2002. The couple was living together when Ms. Horman was cited for DUI on July 10, 2005. Two years later, the couple moved to their home on NW Sheltered Nook Road in January 2007.
Despite the DUI, Mr. Horman nonetheless went on to marry Ms. Horman on April 15, 2007. Ms. Horman gave birth to Kiara on November 12, 2008.
In a prior interview with KGW, Mr. Horman called Ms. Horman “a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did. Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now.”
Mr. Horman told KGW that he was blindsided by Kyron’s disappearance: “There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen. She recently got her teaching license re-instated and has been applying for teaching positions so even the state of Oregon didn’t see this coming.”
The person described in Mr. Horman’s October 25 court papers is not someone who could be described as hidden danger. If believed, Mr. Horman’s most recent statement outline a terrifying picture of a five-year pattern of child abuse and endangerment. Mr. Horman could not possibly be telling the truth in both of his interview with KGW and in his more recent court papers.
Also in the October 25 filing, Mr. Horman claims that he has always been the primary care giver to both Kiara and Kyron and describes Ms. Horman as frequently absent from their home, apparently leaving him with both children.
In a July 28, 2010, Oregonian article, Mr. Horman claimed Kiara was a much different child now that Ms. Horman was gone. He claimed Kiara did not ask about her mom. “‘She’s a new kid,’ he said. ‘She’s whole new kid now.’”
In a separate article, Mr. Horman discussed Ms. Horman’s excessive involvement in Kyron’s schooling and adamant enforcement of discipline. “He [Mr. Horman] said when Kyron brought home anything but a green card [indicating good behavior at school] she [Ms. Horman] wanted Kaine to discipline him by grounding him to his room for the evening.”
Mr. Horman also asserts in his October 25 court papers that Ms. Horman would put Kiara in the gym day care for “hours at a time,” and further claimed that Ms. Horman “spent more time on the computer than caring for the children.” If Mr. Horman was home and providing primary care for the children, then how would Kiara have ended up in day care for “hours at at time”? How would the children have remained unattended while Ms. Horman was updating her Facebook page?
Mr. Horman’s other narrative seems to indicate that Mr. Horman was not present in the home during the day, leaving Ms. Horman to care for the children. It also contradicts Mr. Horman’s escalating accusations that Ms. Horman was absent from the home, uninvolved, and not involved with the care of Kyron and Kiara.
Mr. Horman also claims in his pleadings that Ms. Horman’s son James lived with them until Feb 5, 2010, when he moved because Ms. Horman “was unable to interact with James on a healthy level and had him move to her parents’ home in Roseburg.”
Mr. Horman also claimed he was unaware of any landscaper, a detail which contradicts his most recent work-from-home story: “No, I did not know we had a landscaper and have never met him.” If he was at home, surely he would have known about a landscaper.
On July 8, 2010, Mr. Horman told the Oregonian that Ms. Horman began having problems with postpartum depression in November 2008.
“‘I thought the marriage was doing pretty well,’ Kaine Horman said during a one-on-one interview with The Oregonian, ‘until we had our daughter, Kiara.’ Horman said he thought his marriage to Terri Moulton Horman fractured within six months after she gave birth in November 2008, the result of postpartum depression.Terri Horman was put on medication for the depression, and her doctor told Kaine to keep an eye on her to make sure she was OK, he said. But she wasn’t OK.
If Mr. Horman thought Ms. Horman was a chronic danger to her children and Mr. Horman’s son,why did he not mention it prior to October 25, 2010? Could it be that Mr. Horman’s entire series of pleadings are designed to push Ms. Horman with ever-increasing allegations to the point where she has no choice but to respond?
There are other clues that Mr. Horman’s latest version of events is not entirely accurate. According to more recent news stories, James is again living with his mother. Strange, considering Mr. Horman’s claims that James changed high schools mid-semester and moved hundreds of miles because of Ms. Horman’s behavior.
There are also hints concerning law enforcement’s interest in the Horman dissolution. A June 6, 2010, letter from Norm W. Frink, chief deputy district attorney for Multnomah County, rescinded his statement that un sealing the restraining order would undermine the “ongoing criminal investigation.” If Ms. Horman was the target of the investigation, what purpose would be served by sealing court documents that were to be served upon Ms. Horman? The only other person identified in the pleadings was an unnamed landscaper alleged to have been contacted by Ms. Horman.
As we now know, the landscaper was involved in what has been characterized as a botched sting operation against Ms. Horman. As such, the only person protected by the the seal was Ms. Horman to the extent that the seal prevented the allegations from being disseminated publicly. Or could it be that law enforcement was concerned about accuracy of the information provided by the landscaper?
Law enforcement conducted its sting operation over open channels that were accessible to anyone listening on police channels. Was this an oversight, or was it a convenient way to ensure the information was released “unintentionally”?
If there was any blame for promoting a bogus murder for hire plot, law enforcement could point to Ms. Horman as bringing upon her own misery. She chose to disclose the documents, and as a result, the information was disseminated because of her actions in violating a court order, not law enforcement’s efforts to run out a possible lead, even if later proven false.
We don’t know what role Michael Cook played in the disclosure of the now-public restraining order. The texts between he and Ms. Horman seems to indicate Mr. Cook was not so much interested in sexual banter as much as he was in gathering information for Mr. Horman
The roles of Mr. Cook and the landscaper are highly relevant to evidentiary issues. If the landscaper was a confidential informant, the information he reported that was used as basis for the restraining order could not then be considered an admission against interest. Same thing applies to Mr. Cook.
Mr. Cook in particular seems not to be acting out of concern for Kyron. Who the hell smirks at a vigil for a missing child?)
Reading Mr. Cook’s texts to Terri, there’s a tone that suggests that someone was sitting right next to him, telling him what to type. If true, the question becomes who is that someone guiding Mr. Cook’s actions?
The sexting is weird, but it is hardly ground breaking. The courts have heard such allegations many times before, and without a doubt, the court has seen far worse. That is not to see the court is going to like the texts. Rather, the judge here is going to look at the pleadings with a critical eye for issues that affect parenting time.
Mr. Horman does not offer any evidence that Ms. Horman ever sexted when she should have been parenting. To the contrary Ms. Horman’s lawyers can point to Mr. Horman’s other statements as evidence that Ms. Horman was the primary care giver for James, Kyron, and Kiara. Her extensive collection of family photographs on her Facebook page support this assertion.
Mr. Horman cannot credibly claim that Ms. Horman was a threat to the children, considering that he often left the kids in her care. Mr. Horman did not have any concerns about Ms. Horman’s sobriety and fitness to care for the children the morning Kryon disappeared from school, as he left Kiara in her care and allowed her to take Kyron to school.
If she was a drunk and mean spirited, would Mr. Horman have have allowed Ms. Horman to have access to Kyron’s school records, and to become involved in his discipline? Ms. Horman was a step parent to Kyron. She had no rights except to that which Mr. Horman granted in signed consent forms required by Kyron’s school.
The text messages are racy, but they do not indicate any homicidal tendencies or ill will toward anyone. Nothing in the texts is homicidal by any stretch.
Mr. Horman’s source for his allegations poses a huge problem here. He cites to “law enforcement” as telling him Ms. Horman tried to hire a hit-man, and as to other issues. Not one of these allegations is admissible under any exception to hearsay. The fact that Mr. Horman does not identify the source is a problem in itself. This information might as well be graffiti on the wall of the public bathroom at the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office.
Were Mr. Horman to say that he read an allegation on the a bathroom wall at the MCSO would at least give it some sort of context that would suggest credibility. Mr. Horman’s vague claim makes it impossible to identify which law enforcement office among thousands in the United States might have conveyed such information. Without further identification, the reader cannot tell if the “source” was in a position to have any such knowledge in the first place.
The hearsay allegations offered by Mr. Horman allege child abuse and domestic violence. Under the Confrontation Clause, Ms. Horman has a right to confront her accusers. Ms. Horman does not need to speak in order for her lawyers to cross examine the sources of these allegations.
“..Mr. Horman claims that judges believe there is sufficient information to implicate Ms. Horman in Kyron’s disappearance. This begs the question: How is it that Mr. Horman is getting this information?”
It seems likely that Mr. Horman is referring to search warrants, which require reliable information that the item sought can be found at that location. If Mr. Horman was in fact referring to search warrants, it would be very interesting to find out who provided the information for the searches and what exactly was law enforcement looking for?
If Mr. Horman was the informant, it raises questions as to motive because Mr. Horman wants custody of Kiara. If the landscaper was the affiant, his personal motive for revenge becomes an issue, if it true that Ms. Horman had law enforcement go to his house and expose his extramarital affair in front of his family.
What law enforcement was seeking matters. Ms. Horman’s specialty was in teaching children with learning disabilities. She would have had access to confidential psychological testing, mental health records, medical documents, and possibly, CPS records, none of which could be disclosed except by parent authorization, or pursuant to subpoena or search warrant. Even though she had not worked in that area for some time, she may still have had such records in her home or on her laptop.
If Ms. Horman had such documents or data on her laptop or among her personal papers, she could not turn it over except by subpoena. As such, the mere presence of a search warrant does not mean Ms. Horman is guilty of anything.
..”Mr. Horman’s threat to conduct extensive depositions seems a clear warning to Ms. Horman that he intends to call Ms. Horman’s friends to deposition, put them under oath, and ask them questions. Lots of questions. If Mr. Horman’s pleadings are any sort of a hint, he is not going to make people feel good about befriending Ms. Horman…”
Peter Bunch’s statements at the prior court hearing referencing a December 26 call to 9-1-1 also suggests that maybe something happened the day after Christmas 2009. The implication is that Mr. Bunch intends to discuss that December 26 9-1-1 call in more detail. Don’t expect Mr. Horman to like any of it.
Discovery procedures allow Mr. Horman to get at any information reasonably calculated to lead to discovery of admissible evidence. This does not mean the information specifically sought must be admissible, only that it could reasonably lead to evidence that would be admissible. By that definition, Mr, Horman could justify deposing a great many people in Ms. Horman’s life.
Peter Bunch’s statements at the prior court hearing referencing a December 26 call to 9-1-1 also suggests that maybe something happened the day after Christmas 2009.
Clearly, each of these people has reason to avoid going back to court.
The most confusing aspect of this case is the fact that the restraining order and dissolution were consolidated months ago. Ms. Horman’s attorney notes this in his July 12, 2010, letter to the court.
Given that there is an abatement order in place, how is it that Ms. Horman can go forward with her request for parenting time under the restraining order matter? You would think that Ms. Rackner would have noted this information to the court. But she didn’t. Yet another strange footnote in a even stranger case.
Law enforcement likes to push the weakest link. Ms. Horman seems to be that link. What information does law enforcement hope to gain? Who is law enforcement’s ultimate target?
..”If not Ms. Horman exclusively, or Ms. Horman in any capacity, then who exactly does law enforcement hope to catch by pushing Ms. Horman until she finally breaks?”
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MOO, but I think LE exposed more than just an extra-marital affair at Landscapers House.
puzzled says:
October 30, 2010 at 7:23 pm
Rudy Sanchez is … in custody .. a material witness .. irrelevant .. an undercover informant.
What you think about RS’s role depends on what you think happened on June 4th.
@puzzled- You’ve lost me on this, too. Not sure what you mean here by in custody, irrelevant. I don’t think he was “undercover” with LE, only with TH. Have you found out something more that you can share in more detail?
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29.justice23 says:
October 30, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Very interesting … he has remained on my radar for the last couple of weeks. There is just something very off about “nameless.”
Considering his claims of 12 years of appointment, and you will only find him on the 2006 roster, I would say-
B
Blink- Are we going there or not? Should I repost the info. I gave you? Can you give me a “yes” or a “no” or a “you are crazy”?
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39.Madilu says:
October 31, 2010 at 1:52 am
(Snipped)
Everyone is assuming that LE is the one who provided the texting transcripts to KH. I believe that it was MC who did so, NOT LE.
@Madilu- KH states in his motion that LE provided the texts to him.
See page 5, #17:
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/a/4/6/a466434a-e631-4fef-96c5-8162118cb371/petition.pdf
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FWIW, these documents are disappearing from media web sites, you can’t find them unless you go way back to find a link like I just did. I suggest that you copy them to your own files if you want to keep any as a reference.
To all – Wow, excellent stuff this weekend, my head is spinning!
I’ve seen the “parallel criminal investigations” mentioned a couple of times, and at first it stood out to me too, but I believe it is referring to Kyron’s disappearance (one criminal investigation) and the MFH (another criminal investigation). There has been speculation that Terri was “being watched” prior to Kyron’s disappearance — and maybe that has something to do with the 911 episode after her visit to Rudi’s house in May — but the statements about parallel criminal investigations are not particularly earth-shaking and we already know of two matters in which she is implicated — if only by the court of public opinion.
I still think she has pretty much told LE what she knows. I think they have been barking up the wrong tree in terms of who is directly responsible for Kyron’s disappearance. And yes, I think she was involved in things that brought this about and clearly she is concerned about criminal prosecution in the other matter we know about — the MFH (if not more — things she has perhaps had to reveal in cooperating with LE). These are the remaining missing pieces — who else was in her life and what else happened — and LE has to have tight, solid evidence to bring about a charge and a trial.
Last night I watched a 48 hours episode about a baptist minister accused of murdering his wife, which he staged as a suicide. Lots of mistakes made in the original investigation (which the local LE easily assumed was a suicide), the man was arrested twice for the crime — the first time nothing “stuck”, and boy was he good at lying straight out very convincingly. It was his wife’s family’s continued pushing and hiring of a private legal/investigative team that finally led to his conviction. But during the process, the prosecutor said they needed to wait, to work very carefully with the evidence, and to NOT arrest, charge and try too soon or he would get off.
What finally convicted him was testimony by his girlfriend — who also lied very convincingly early on. He would still be free — despite all the incriminating evidence that just wasn’t good enough to eliminate reasonable doubt (jury’s can — and should — be VERY diligent about applying the letter of the law) if not for what she revealed.
Horrifying…..this man was raising two daughters. He was a shameless, boldfaced liar over and over and over — much of it right into the camera as he was being interviewed by 48 hours. His girlfriend was too. It scares the #($* out of me that there are people in the world who can do that.
“The claims are so disjointed, it is as though Mr. Horman decided to throw spaghetti at the wall, just to see what might stick.” The LC “analysis” seems to highlight the centrifuge of this case and the level of frustration experienced by an increasingly frustrated father.
What had been “spun out” at first were perhaps some issues, still keeping some modicum of civility. As time has passed, we began to see raw emotion from DY, expressing frustration at how to raise the reward dollars.
You are right, LC—the spaghetti water is boiling, and we are all standing around wondering—is it done yet?! Honestly, were it myself in KH’s shoes, I’d be taking off the gloves, too, and telling exactly what that little minx was like! The Bi-Polar Express! Instead, the centrifuge continues to spin,but aggravatingly slow for those of us NOT TRULY IN THE KNOW who must continue to inspect and analyze each little speck that flies off the spinning wheel. I am sure KH feels ready to throw more than spaghetti at the wall…
Marleysmom – Thanks. I was sure that was the case, but always nice to have it confirmed. Actually I don’t even have a special ed kid, but I hate the idea of that woman having that kind of access to info about kids I know. I don’t even like the idea that she volunteered (although actually her volunteer work has been WAY exaggerated)
Made two posts earlier, I saw them waiting in moderation and now I don’t see them at all. So, I am gonna re-send
1) The only reason I can think of TH having ANY childs/childrens records, is she could be an ADVOCATE. Why else would pertinent information protected by the school/county/state leave the school?
and 2) MOO, I think LE went to landscapers house and exposed something much bigger and more explosive than an extra-marital affair.
justice23 says:
October 30, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Very interesting … he has remained on my radar for the last couple of weeks. There is just something very off about “nameless.”
“nameless” reminds me of a case in Calif. back in the mid-1980′s. There was a 6 year old boy who was found murdered. An oddball named Shawn Melton was arrested, tried and acquitted for the murder. Melton was at the funeral and was involving himself in the investtigation. Melton was in my 1st year accounting class in a community college. When you looked at him you couldn’t determine if he was 20 or 40 years old. He pronounced the word “expense” as “esspense”. I talked t him a few times in class. I thought he was incapable of commiting the crime, but not completely convinced that he wasn’t involved either. http://articles.latimes.com/1987-03-05/news/mn-7855_1_security-guard
As a layperson a couple of things stood out in the latest Bunch/Houze filing:
It was mentioned a couple of times that Kaine probably won’t follow the court’s ruling(s) no matter what. I’m wondering if there exists any basis for that statement. Has Kaine violated any court orders that any of you are aware of?
I understand that lie-detector test results are not admitted in a court of law and why TH’s attorneys would object to Rackner’s use of them in a divorce filing. However, these failures have been reported widely to the public over the last few months. I was a little curious as to why TH’s attorneys made this a primary issue when it has been public knowledge for quite some time.
Question: Since I’m out here on the West coast I am behind many of you by 1 to 3 hours…is this why many of my posts sit in moderation for hours? It seems that I am usually a day late and a dollar short by the time my posts make it to the thread, because everyone has already moved on. I’ve seen posts at 2 or 3 am, and I wonder if I need to be here at 2 or 3 am PST to be in synch with everyone. I try to read everything before I make a comment, and then when I do it just sits in moderation for hours. It’s frustrating, just wondering if I am doing something wrong or if I can do something different? Do any other PST posters experience the same issue? TIA.
Paula says:
October 30, 2010 at 6:26 pm
“It’s so funny that you should say that because I have been looking at Terri’s pics from FB and I honestly think that Kitty does have the look of a child with fetal alcohol syndrome. Perhaps not badly, but there is something odd about her eyes. I don’t know anything about her development stages so my comment relates only to what I’ve observed in the pictures. Hopefully, I’m flatout wrong. She is a precious little girl.”
She definitely is a precious little girl. I have baby pictures of my 18 year old daughter where her eyes look exactly like Kiara’s and there is no way she was alcohol affected. I probably shouldn’t have commented on her development because I was basing it mainly on one picture of her coloring.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1445782505605&set=a.1419524769178.2059454.1264414625
Terri’s comment is “Coloring – look at that perfect finger placement.:)”
This past summer, I evaluated children coming into kindergarten for kindergarten readiness. One of the things we looked at was finger placement and Kiara does indeed have the correct finger placement, for a five year old. From this one picture, it doesn’t appear that alcohol affected her fine motor development.
Also, Terri seems to realize that Kiara is ahead of benchmark and is proud enough to comment about it. It made me wonder if she had worked with developmentally delayed children or maybe one of the boys (James or Kyron) didn’t have good fine motor control. My son was born three weeks early, like Kyron, and he still doesn’t hold a pencil or fork correctly. And he’s 16. Fine motor has always been an issue for him.
Narrowing down the time of drinking from a “five year history of alcohol abuse” is important to me because it may suggest an internal or external struggle that led to Kyron’s disappearance.
Skyline Parent says:
Why on earth would we assume that a woman who had NEVER had a full time teaching position and hadn’t even subbed for at least 2 years would have these kinds of records? I call BS on this one.
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You are absolutely correct on this one Skyline Parent.
I have taught for over three decades at a Portland/Metro school district. Even the regular teachers are not provided a copy of a student’s Individual Education Plan (IEP). The Special Education staff provides teachers only the page that lists required classroom accommodations for each special-ed student. And even that page is “confidential”; by law, we cannot share it.
28.CassieS says:
October 30, 2010 at 9:47 pm
(snipped)
today going through Sandy I could have sworn I saw a boy that looked so much like Kyron (hubby too-a head turner) with an older Grandpa lookin man
@CassieS- IF you even THINK you see Ky you should at the very least follow them long enough to take a photo and/or get a license plate from their vehicle, and report it to LE. Hell, call 911, for God’s sake, what if it were him and you didn’t do anything? Even if it wasn’t him, LE would be able to check it out and no harm done. My child looks like Ky and back in June and July I was approached by several LEOs and other adults, beause they saw the resemblance and were suspicious. This did not upset or bother me, I was glad that so many people were on the ball and looking out for him. Sadly, this doesn’t happen anymore, because IMO the majority of people think TH did something to Ky and he is not longer out there…but what if, and an huge IF, he is and nobody is looking anymore? That would be tragic.
@Midwest Mom
My comment should have been written to read “is either” .. as in one or the other possible roles.
I am really curious about RS … and I am throwing out there the possibility that RS is something other than a landscaper who was hired for a MFH by someone he was receiving sext/texts from.
All that is known about RS is what has been developed by blinksters and yet he may play a major role in the disappearance of Ky .. to what degree is unknown.
21.Skyline parents says:
October 30, 2010 at 9:00 pm
“Ms. Horman works in special education. She does testing. This suggests she is involved in Individualized Education Program (IEP) evaluations.” – Where is this info coming from? How do you know that she actually WORKS inspecial education? I’ve never seen this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for providing this interesting information, Skyline Parent. I always look forward to reading your posts. I am not sure why Ms. Conner brought up the possibility of school records info on TMH’s computer. *IF* she is an intense focus of the investigation into the disappearance of her stepson, I can think of more sinister information they may be looking for (i.e. anything related to abduction, secreting individuals, emails to co-conspirators, etc.).
To those that are confused about possible investigations vs just one ivestigation.
MFH plot would be one, Kyron’s disappearance would be another…that makes two without having to go to extreme measures to figure out why the reference to “investigationS”.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
39.Madilu says:
October 31, 2010 at 1:52 am
But sexting with either man at any time is ultimately irrelevant, as Oregon is a no-fault divorce state. I don’t think the sexting has any legal impact on establishing the fitness of a parent either. Being morally challenged is NOT equivalent to either criminal behavior, or unfitness to parent a child. If being morally challenged were, then sadly we would have millions of orphans in our country.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Madilu, at least in my state, the parent’s morals and/or any immoral behavior can certainly be grist for the mill when one is considering fitness for parenting in a child custody/visitation case.
justice23 says:
October 30, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Very interesting … he has remained on my radar for the last couple of weeks. There is just something very off about “nameless.”
Considering his claims of 12 years of appointment, and you will only find him on the 2006 roster, I would say-
B
I agree! Very, very “off.” Why would someone continually interject themselves into something they claim they desire not to be associated with? About the time the existence of this person is forgotten, the “interjection” becomes more irrational and demanding and the latest with illegal attributes. I had deemed this person a nitwit, but now he has elevated himself as a POI on my radar.
43.beejay says:
October 29, 2010 at 1:39 pm
I’m suggesting, as I’m guessing you may realize, that TH is afraid of the perp who disappeared Ky. And, let’s suppose that she does not believe Cook to be that guy. Therefore, TH was not afraid of MC. TH, may, however, know of a VERY SCAREY person who she would not (subsequent to June 4, anyway) text, sext, nor rat out to LE.
@beejay- Let’s assume this is why she says it is dangerous to go outside the house in her text/sext to MC. However, in the same series of texts she aske MC not to tell that she went to see him the previous night, when she told DDS she was just going for a drive. She contradicts herself on this. That said, we don’t have ALL of the text/sext, how much of it was edited, etc., etc.
I have always thought that perhaps she was afraid not only for herself, but for Kitty and others, but this particular excerpt makes me question that. Further, IF she is afraid of someone, WHY IN THE HELL WOULDN’T SHE TELL LE? Because it would incriminate her stupid self?! Surely LE could protect her, IMOO she is still hiding things, otherwise she would take whatever LE and the DA throw at her and answer their questions, not plead the fifth. I don’t know what the hell or who the hell she is hiding, but her actions indicate that this she is doing exactly that.
I am not ashamed to say that I am more confused than ever here. Things are not adding up, it is a mess, and I am left thinking about one innocent little boy that was caught in the midst of all this bullshit. He didn’t deserve any of this, it makes me sick. I cried all Summer for him, I’ve heard him screaming in my dreams, and I don’t give a shit about TH, I just want the truth.
Dee and NelMel,
I thought it was determined that there was no stair well to hide under. Has this been redetermined?
Thanks
Blink, please disregard #44 -oversite on my part! I am sorry!
Madilu,
Good post. I agree that the “sexting” was a set-up by Kaine and MC. I actually think that MC had been perhaps very flirtatious with Terri prior to any sexting for that very reason. She played into it hook, line, and sinker.
And don’t tell me that a man who would engage in this activity, considering the circumstances, would be SO CONCERNED about truthfulness. He was messing around with his friend’s / acquaintance’s wife during the midst / aftermath of a horrific event. That is a two-way street.
Madilue,
I forgot to mention that based on the possibility that Kaine and Terri had an open marriage / alternative life-style, Kaine perhaps knew that Terri would go for it. Nothing out of the norm but not supposed to be for public consumption? There are images to uphold.
Moo
Cant help but think the sting with the RS after KH moved out was a major mistake and threw SM into the protection of a very powerful attorney. Up to that time SM seemed oblivious to her vulnerability. She was after all at least 3 weeks late in getting representation. It seems like LE does not have the evidence it needs in its pursuit of SM and is continuing the public pressure on SM. In my humble opinion the axiom of: ‘keep your friends close. Keep your enemies even closer.’ could have been useful in this situation. With all the scrutiny on SM I think it is only fair to see if the other parents involved can also withstand this kind of public scrutiny. Still wonder if KH was hiding something by shutting down access at Intel. I have the impression that SM did not completely fail her polygraph but failed the lifestyle portion.
Praying for Kyron today, as always, on one of his favorite holidays and noticing how he is being put on the “back burner”. Poor little guy. I wonder if anyone will ever get back to the most pressing important thing, looking for this innocent sweetheart. Love to you Kyron. I’m thinking about you today. xxooxx
I really expected Bunch and Houze’s response to say a lot of dirty things about Kaine, but it’s possible they are holding off on the big guns until later.
It has made me wonder if the reason Rackner and Kaine played dirty pool was not only to make a point (although we know the points are moot as far as family court/visitation rights go) but because the GJ has not and will not issue a True Bill.
Scary.
To All:
quoted reply from Lea Conner (many posts ago)
“The issue that I referenced was as to third-party records that Ms. Horman could not release without a waiver or consent. If she had any student records on her laptop (or smart phone), and law enforcement wanted to examine it, she could not produce the laptop except by subpoena or search warrant.”
A) Has a search warrant or subpoena been executed for the laptop? If not, WHY?
B)What could these “third-party” records be?
”If not Ms. Horman exclusively, or Ms. Horman in any capacity, then who exactly does law enforcement hope to catch by pushing Ms. Horman until she finally breaks?”
Thank you Blink and Ms. Conner, Esq. –
TH doesn’t seem that breakable to me. The sheriff already tried and failed with pretty much the same info that KH is using.
Do you think that LE watches her home full-time in case that someone tries to silence the one person who can identify him?
Loreli48,
You have such a sweet soul. Every time I read your messages to Kyron, it touches me deeply but this time I cried.
Today is Halloween. My daughter is the cutest bumble bee you have ever seen. I found these perfect round glasses that are black with silver glitter. Her hair is extremely long, including her bangs (just cut off 4 iches so she no longer sits on it). I parted her hair in the middle and sectioned off two sides in front. I used the black rubber bands (not really rubber) to start out two pony tails and built on that to create antennas (3 1/2 inches worth). It worked well. And then there is her stream of blond hair extending from that. The cutest thing you have ever seen. Then she has a black and yellow-striped skit, a black turtle-neck, wings, black gloves, and black tights and shoes.
Where I live, we have businesses downtown that give out candy to the kids. It is a zoo. Really fun. If Halloween falls on a weekend, they do it on a Friday — so in this instance, my dautghter trick-or-treats twice. She received so many compliments on her costume Friday.
It is one of our favorite times of year too.
God bless you, Kyron.
justice23 says:
October 30, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Very interesting … he has remained on my radar for the last couple of weeks. There is just something very off about “nameless.”
Considering his claims of 12 years of appointment, and you will only find him on the 2006 roster, I would say-
B
—————————————————-
Resume writing 101. Never lie. I know that people fake and embellish resumes all the time, but it ALWAYS bites one in the tusch. The other thing is, that if one is so successful on path X, then why do odd jobs, live in a friend’s garage, and be broke, etc. This scenario reminds me of a certain search person who can’t decide if he was in the military or high school at one given time…and whose website indicates essentially no work for the better part of this decade…
Months later, and I am still on the fence wrt Terri’s involvement or lack thereof. I’m still not seeing any actual factual evidence involving her.
Today, I’m thinking …
That Kaine served her with divorce papers. Terri sexted with Cook AFTER those papers were served and thus the sexting physically and actually occured AFTER Kaine & Terri legally seperated; thus, NOT relevant to the divorce.
The sexting info was obtained during the course of the criminal investigation. In Kaine’s next filing, he then brings up the sexting. Why would LE divulge this “non-divorce related” sexting to Kaine when it is relevant only to the criminal investigation and NOT the divorce proceedings? Houze, in his response, states that he is being denied disclosure of that sexting data – yet Kaine had obviously been made aware of it and some of it’s contents. So, LE had initially disclosed (or someone in LE “leaked”) it’s existance to Kaine for him to mention, but it was still denied at that point in time to Terri’s attorney as per his filing on her behalf. Does not there exist a RIGHT to Terri to have disclosure? Kaine obviously had access to it, but not Terri or her attorney.
Only in response to Terri’s request for access do we find that the texting is now “officially” available (by Kaine including exerpts)and also now finally disclosed to Terri and her attorney.
I also see legal ramifications in any possible criminal case against Terri … LE leaked info only pertinent to the criminal case to Kaine AFTER he had filed for divorce who then included it in a follow up motion in the divorce proceedings and only then was it finally disclosed to Terri’s attorney. And yet, it is irrelevant to the divorce proceedings as it occured after Kaine had filed.
I not only smell a lawsuit against Kaine … but one against the LE for leaking irrelevant info to Kaine, while failing to disclose to other interested/involved party.
Has LE set themselves up for failure on legal technicality — even IF they actually do have a shred of factual evidence instead of only the-current-existing-heresay against her in Kyron’s disappearance?
Can someone explain/outline the legal requirements for disclosure in Oregon? Do they only have to disclose once any possible charges were laid? Have Kaine and Racker side-swiped any possible criminal prosecution of Terri by announcing & introducing undisclosed and irrelevant sexting which occured after the divorce paperwork was filed by kaine into the divorce proceeding?
S and Justice,
I understand that something is “off” but I think I am missing some details about the “12 years.” I think I am lost. Would not be the first time
24.loreli48 says:
October 31, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Praying for Kyron today, as always, on one of his favorite holidays and noticing how he is being put on the “back burner”. Poor little guy. I wonder if anyone will ever get back to the most pressing important thing, looking for this innocent sweetheart. Love to you Kyron. I’m thinking about you today. xxooxx
Loreli48 is right. Kyron should be here enjoying this day!
*******************************************8
IF you read this today please put a Kyron flier on your front door or window for all to see when they come by, as a reminder that he is still missing. It may be too late for us to save him, but maybe we can save another child somewhere.
@Idahogal says:
October 31, 2010 at 11:50 am
“It seems that I am usually a day late and a dollar short by the time my posts make it to the thread, because everyone has already moved on.”
Idaho(I SO want to add the extra ‘ho’ for you! : D) YES.. I have the same feeling. Not that I’m being singled out, but that by the time my posts hit the feed, they’re irrelevant.
I read all of yours though, and they always seem relevant to me.
RE: 28.CassieS says:
October 30, 2010 at 9:47 pm
(snipped)
today going through Sandy I could have sworn I saw a boy that looked so much like Kyron (hubby too-a head turner) with an older Grandpa lookin man
@CassieS- IF you even THINK you see Ky you should at the very least follow them long enough to take a photo and/or get a license plate from their vehicle, and report it to LE. Hell, call 911,
Cassie YES, *call* 911.. that is still the preferred method to report a Kyron *sighting*. The officers will not mind responding, and there is always a slither of a chance…
I just can’t stop wondering about Terri’s camp’s strategy. Could it be that she is so incredibly innocent, but was a perfect target to set up due to her other activities, which led to other investigations? Are they just kicking-back, so to speak, to let others hang themselves? Also, IF TY was so suspicious of Terri early on — why then was there not ample suspicion of Terri’s day-to-day life prior – if it really matters? Apparently, he is the “man.” Right?
Again, something does not add up.
30.WindowPane says:
October 30, 2010 at 10:07 pm
In Houze response it states “Mother is the focus of parallel criminal investigations.” Also, states “….there are ongoing criminal investigations focused on the Mother…”
Not the word investigation is plural. What the he** is going on here?
__________
1) Kyron’s disappearnace; and
2) Alleged MFH.
That makes it “plural” investigations.
@Idahogal says:
October 31, 2010 at 11:50 am
Do any other PST posters experience the same issue? TIA.
——————————————————
Me. Blink is a superstar in keeping up, but I have to assume she sleeps…so, NJ time is +3, and on the left coast…well, also being a late evening poster, feel the same way. It is what it is tho…you are not alone:-)
And thanks fort he info about LE giving KH the info. That really seems inappropriate to me. How the hell can they let any piece of relevant information to the disappearance get out to anyone. Especially since the texting is, imo irrelevant to updating the father of a missing child…that information is not exactly a progress report on where Kyron is… Seems very unprofessional, at the very least.
Zeus – although no one predicted that kyron would disappear into thin air or saw anything that would justsify a call to child services, let’s just say that none of us that knew her would not have nominated her for mother of the year and leave it at that.
Idaho Gal,
I share your sentiments. I would have followed and phoned in.
Idaho Gal,
I am reading out of order. I think I started in order and ended up reading backwards. Anyway, I am so curious about what you have submitted previously. I understand you are waiting for a heads up. I know if Blink thought it a good thing, she would let you know….but still!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I take MC as seriously as I would Alec Baldwin’s character in “The Departed.”
Great movie if you have not seen it.
I missed something here… apologies. Is “nameless” a poster on this site and if so how can I go to the posts to read? Thank you!
@GraceintheHills; @Skyline parents–
Could not agree more! There is no way in three kinds of heck —with Sped laws as they are —that any substitute teacher (as she’s never held a contract position to my knowledge) much less a volunteer parent would have privy to any IEP information–ever! Unless she broke into files and stole confidential student information, she would not have any. She may have been privy to Ky’s, if he had an IEP. As a volunteer, she probably talked a good game, but any educator worth their salt would have seen her coming for a country mile! Was she doing more with records than has been reported? Was she allowed into electronic student information systems where someone could have “shared” a password with her?
At the time she graduated from Teacher Ed, maybe she had an emphasis of study in Sped, but that said, she’s a long way from having access to confidential information in an IEP…or even the Classroom Accommodations page—-Maybe in her warped imagination. I wonder if she was on an IEP in school? Sometimes those frustrated learners later turn to alcohol or other substances to “self medicate” for a learning disability. Just sayin’—-
Just let Kyron be found. Now. Today. While this comment’s in moderation. Before B oks it. Amen.
43.beejay says:
October 29, 2010 at 1:39 pm
I’m suggesting, as I’m guessing you may realize, that TH is afraid of the perp who disappeared Ky.
~~~
let’s not forget that there were several 911 calls in the spring months from the neighboring area that the H’s live in … suggesting someone who had seen the sext/texts was prowling the neighborhood to get a better look at you know who, doing you know what. The H neighborhood is not your typical cul-de-sac where someone could go from house to house .. they would have to park and thrash through the wooded areas to go onto private propety in order to find the correct house.
Ack – sorry for typing on my cell – that doesn’t make ANY sense. Here is what I meant to say:
Zeus – although no one predicted that kyron would disappear into thin air or (to my knowledge) saw anything that would justsify a call to child services, let’s just say that none of us that knew her would have nominated her for mother of the year and leave it at that.
Ms. Conner,
I know I said I appreciate your analysis once before, but want to say it again. While I won’t spell it out, I caught another glimpse of necessity that I did not previously mention. I was without my morning coffee on the first read.
Yep. I understand it the reality and get it.
Well done.
Like so many others, I’ve run all the scenarios that are possible … and like someone else posted .. we seem to run into dead ends.
I am re-focusing on RS because of the many things B has said .. and the mention of “If the landscaper was a confidential informant” by Lea Conner. (probably pure speculative on her part, but what if he is)
Blink says …
What I know, is that as far as undercover agents go, DEA is bar none the LE Agency “go to” for reasons that I won’t specify publicly. He was not just hanging out cleaning his firearms on a Saturday and got a call from MCSO asking if he had plans for the afternoon-
Secondly, they would NEVER get in the middle of a mp case or mfh if there were not some component of an investigation driving that agencies participation. They are not on speed dial.
B
Let’s agree that the 6/26 sting has alot more going on than meets the eye. B
“Someone was under investigation in this case prior to Kyron going missing, of that, there is no doubt in my mind. B”
Blink, If you were guessing, who would be your biggest FOCUS?
Rudy Sanchez and his associates. B
Is everyone clear now that Rudy Sanchez is the subject of an ONGOING investigation? B
Puzzled says …
If RS is an informant .. we will not know. The only way we will know RS’s standing is if he is charged and prosecuted for involvement in the abduction of Ky. And if no one is ever charged… well, your guess is as good as mine.
Ms. Conner,
Correction: Reality = necessity based on a certain reality.
Moo.
What really raised my “ummm” antenna was KH’s filings .. he has never mentioned Rudy Sanchez .. and yet RS was involved in a MFH, affair with his wife, sexting, even landscaping his property.
Like Nake said … Bunch didn’t say Rudy Sanchez HAS an alias he said it IS an alias… Who is this landscaper??
@Montana Mom.
You say that you don’t think Kiara displays any physical symptoms of FAS? what about Kyron??
Shelly 10-31 11:08am
I think you are onto something with your #2 item, that when LE went to landscapers house something much bigger was exposed than an extra marital affair. When you think about what may have occured, RS was confronted by LE in front of his wife and children. There were probably things he said at that time about TH which would give LE cause to doubt her story about him. Very interesting thought. Wonder what he said, what they found and what they believed.