Kyron Horman Case Update: Blinkoncrime.com Legal Analyst Lea Conner Weighs In
Portland, OR- Please Welcome Again blinkoncrime.com Contributing Editor And Legal Analyst, Washington Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner.
Although I am not licensed in Oregon, I grew up there and was a news reporter for several years in that state, during which time I covered the cops and courts beat. My practice in Washington state deals in family law matters. As such, I can comment as to my knowledge of family law and court proceedings, but my comments are general analysis, not legal advice.
Kaine Horman’s pleadings of October 25, 2010, unleashed a tempest of charges against his wife, claiming she was a raging drunk whose inability to control her anger and her drinking had already caused her to give up custody of one child prior to the disappearance of her stepson on June 4, 2010. Unlike his prior, more tersely-written court filings, Mr. Horman’s words are more personal and angry. They are also contradicted by his prior statements to the court and to the media, and the very documentation he provided as part of his October 25 court papers.
The latest round of pleadings from Mr. Horman seems to fit a far bigger effort by Mr. Horman and Desiree Young to push Ms. Horman to the point where she would be forced to speak in her own defense. Ms. Horman’s own writings within days of Kryon’s disappearance evidence her Achilles heel in that Ms. Horman complained loudly about criticism heaped upon her via the internet.
What followed was a whisper campaign of purported law enforcement leaks about Ms. Horman and people around her that has continually kept her name in the news since June 4, 2010. Mr. Horman’s court filings also evidence an effort to keep Ms. Horman under constant public scrutiny, by filing multiple motions over time that could have been either avoided or filed jointly.
Consider this: Kaine Horman failed to mention in his June 28, 2010, restraining order application that he wanted his wife out of the house and, as a result, on July 1, 2010, filed an amended petition for restraints and asked for an expedited hearing.
“..This omission is an odd oversight, considering that Mr. Horman filed for divorce, took the parties’ child, but failed to ask for the house. Possession of the family home is such a basic issue it would seem impossible for a family law attorney to forget to mention it in a party’s opening paper…”
Filing a separate motion to seek return of the family home seems like a good strategy for someone seeking to keep the focus on Ms. Horman. It’s new information to the media, whereas the fact that Kryon remained missing and Mr. Horman and Ms. Young’s suspicions about Ms. Horman were yesterday’s headline.
Early on in criminal investigation and prior to the divorce filing, Mr. Horman described his wife in benign terms. As the weeks stretch on, these descriptions became increasingly negative. Mr. Horman and Ms. Young both stated their objective was to keep the focus on Kyron. In the absence of anything new to report, both parents embarked on a campaign to slowly heap increasing pressure on Ms. Horman to talk.
From the law enforcement perspective, Ms. Horman is a natural suspect, given her relationship to the victim and the fact that she was the last person known to have been seen with him. Except for anonymous leaks and rumors, the only people who have put their names to allegations are Mr. Horman and Kyron’s mother Desiree Young. Both claim their information comes from law enforcement, but both have disagreed at times as to the credibility of the information they shared publicly. Such was the case with Ms. Young’s claim that Kyron was last seen outside the school near a white truck, while Mr. Horman quickly corrected her, saying the information had not been confirmed.
“..Without Ms. Young and Det. Tony Young in the room, Mr. Horman seems to have gone off script and now cannot control his message nor his anger. Mr. Horman angrily complains about horrible things that might have happened in front of Kiara, yet he cannot say what exactly became of Kyron, and whether there is any evidence to suggest Kiara was a witness to this unspecified event…”
In his most recent pleadings, Mr. Horman angrily recounts that Ms. Horman claimed she was going to the gym, but since their separation, he has come to believe that she spent the time talking to people and flirting. The portrait of a social butterfly chatting people up at the gym for hours on end doesn’t quite fit with Mr. Horman’s other claims that she was an angry, depressed new mother who drank her self blotto and could not maintain any sort of civility toward those around her.
Which is it? Was Ms. Horman a mean drunk who drank herself to sleep, or was she self-absorbed and social, staying up to all hours playing on the Internet while her child sat in the same room unattended and un-engaged? Or was she a social butterfly who spent most of her time outside the home while Mr. Horman was super dad, working long hours from home, caring for the children, and providing an income that he never could enjoy because Ms. Horman was spending it all? The claims are so disjointed, it is as though Mr. Horman decided to throw spaghetti at the wall, just to see what might stick.
Mr. Horman’s over-reaching was fore shadowed in an earlier motion filed on July 12, 2010, alleging Ms. Horman had violated the courts seal on the restraining order. The pleadings in the contempt matter went well beyond Mr. Horman’s claim that Ms. Horman allegedly disclosed confidential court papers to Michael Cook.
Mr. Horman asserted that Ms. Horman was involved with a sexual relationship with Mr. Cook and had sent him hundreds of text messages, most of which were sexual in nature (AKA “sexting”). These text messages allegedly included images of “graphic sexual activity,” though no such photos have been filed with the court.
“..Mr. Horman accused Ms. Horman of lacking any genuine affection for Kyron or Kiara saying that although her texts said she missed both children, the mentions were few. The implication of the narrative was that Ms. Horman could not possibly care about either child…”
Except for the specific passage alleging Ms. Horman shared a confidential document with Mr. Cook, none of the other allegations had anything to do with the underlying motion. None of these claims addressed the issue of whether Ms. Horman violated the court order, nor do they indicate any involvement by Ms. Horman in Kyron’s disappearance.
Mr. Horman went on to claim that an unnamed member or members of law enforcement “informed” him that the sexualized text messages “resemble” text messages sent to the “the man Respondent [Ms. Horman] previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner [Mr. Horman].” Mr. Horman claimed in the same July 1 2court papers that Ms. Horman had asked Mr. Cook to lie to her attorney about “the fact that she had gone to Mr. Cook’s home.”
One news outlet found Mr. Horman’s pleadings so lurid it titled the document “sleazy.pdf” before posting it to its website.
On October 25, 2010, Mr. Horman finally filed the aforementioned text messages with the court, as an exhibit attached to his response to Ms. Horman’s parenting time request. A review of these document reveals that Ms. Horman never asked Mr. Cook to lie, nor did she speak of Kyron and Kiara in dismissive tones. Although most of the texts showed varying degrees of sexual discussion, there were also several texts that had nothing to do with Ms. Horman’s romantic attachments. Ms. Horman discussed cooking, eating “nutterbutter bites,” weight lifting, and their respective children.
..”Ms. Horman told Mr. Cook, “I was really upset that Kaine has Kitty but doesn’t know what her favorite toy or blanket is.”
-Terri Horman
A parent who does not care about her daughter would not waste a single moment worrying about her child having her favorite toy or blanket. The allegation that Mr. Horman did not know such basic information about his daughter provides motive for Mr. Horman to attempt to discredit Ms. Horman’s words as insincere. Otherwise, Ms. Horman’s words are truthful and reflect her historical relationship as primary care giver to both children.
On July 28, 2010, Mr. Horman filed yet another motion demanding Ms. Horman reveal the source of funds used to pay her lawyer. It was as though Mr. Horman was asking how Ms. Horman could have ever come up with that kind of money, given her status as a social pariah?
The problem with Mr. Horman’s strategy of piecemeal litigation it does not serve the purpose of expediting litigation. Instead, it creates a lot of embarrassment and harassment for Ms. Horman.
Oregon is a no-fault divorce state. This means that either party can ask for a divorce without having to prove any wrongdoing. Oregon is also an “equitable distribution” state which means that the court divides property equitably between the parties. Issues like infidelity and rude behavior are not factors in whether a party is entitled to divorce, or in dividing up the parties assets.
Mr. Horman raises several issues about Ms. Horman’s alleged conduct citing them as as basis to award sole custody and care of Kiara. The allegations are such that it becomes difficult for Ms. Horman to leave any responses up to her lawyer, who would not have personal knowledge required to speak to the many issues he raises.
Ultimately, the court will consider the allegations made by each party, weigh the credibility and relevance of each claim as to parenting issues then enter a temporary order as to the care and custody of the child.
Mr. Horman claims in his October 25 filings that Ms. Horman has a five year history of alcohol impairment. In his statement to the court, Mr. Horman claimed that his wife “could have an un diagnosed personality disorder or some type of emotional disturbance.”
The most recent claims by Mr. Horman are contradicted by his prior assertions in media interviews, and the actual chronology of the Hormans’ relationship.
Mr. Horman met Ms. Horman in the spring of 2002. According to Mr. Horman, the couple moved in together in December 2002. The couple was living together when Ms. Horman was cited for DUI on July 10, 2005. Two years later, the couple moved to their home on NW Sheltered Nook Road in January 2007.
Despite the DUI, Mr. Horman nonetheless went on to marry Ms. Horman on April 15, 2007. Ms. Horman gave birth to Kiara on November 12, 2008.
In a prior interview with KGW, Mr. Horman called Ms. Horman “a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did. Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now.”
Mr. Horman told KGW that he was blindsided by Kyron’s disappearance: “There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen. She recently got her teaching license re-instated and has been applying for teaching positions so even the state of Oregon didn’t see this coming.”
The person described in Mr. Horman’s October 25 court papers is not someone who could be described as hidden danger. If believed, Mr. Horman’s most recent statement outline a terrifying picture of a five-year pattern of child abuse and endangerment. Mr. Horman could not possibly be telling the truth in both of his interview with KGW and in his more recent court papers.
Also in the October 25 filing, Mr. Horman claims that he has always been the primary care giver to both Kiara and Kyron and describes Ms. Horman as frequently absent from their home, apparently leaving him with both children.
In a July 28, 2010, Oregonian article, Mr. Horman claimed Kiara was a much different child now that Ms. Horman was gone. He claimed Kiara did not ask about her mom. “‘She’s a new kid,’ he said. ‘She’s whole new kid now.’”
In a separate article, Mr. Horman discussed Ms. Horman’s excessive involvement in Kyron’s schooling and adamant enforcement of discipline. “He [Mr. Horman] said when Kyron brought home anything but a green card [indicating good behavior at school] she [Ms. Horman] wanted Kaine to discipline him by grounding him to his room for the evening.”
Mr. Horman also asserts in his October 25 court papers that Ms. Horman would put Kiara in the gym day care for “hours at a time,” and further claimed that Ms. Horman “spent more time on the computer than caring for the children.” If Mr. Horman was home and providing primary care for the children, then how would Kiara have ended up in day care for “hours at at time”? How would the children have remained unattended while Ms. Horman was updating her Facebook page?
Mr. Horman’s other narrative seems to indicate that Mr. Horman was not present in the home during the day, leaving Ms. Horman to care for the children. It also contradicts Mr. Horman’s escalating accusations that Ms. Horman was absent from the home, uninvolved, and not involved with the care of Kyron and Kiara.
Mr. Horman also claims in his pleadings that Ms. Horman’s son James lived with them until Feb 5, 2010, when he moved because Ms. Horman “was unable to interact with James on a healthy level and had him move to her parents’ home in Roseburg.”
Mr. Horman also claimed he was unaware of any landscaper, a detail which contradicts his most recent work-from-home story: “No, I did not know we had a landscaper and have never met him.” If he was at home, surely he would have known about a landscaper.
On July 8, 2010, Mr. Horman told the Oregonian that Ms. Horman began having problems with postpartum depression in November 2008.
“‘I thought the marriage was doing pretty well,’ Kaine Horman said during a one-on-one interview with The Oregonian, ‘until we had our daughter, Kiara.’ Horman said he thought his marriage to Terri Moulton Horman fractured within six months after she gave birth in November 2008, the result of postpartum depression.Terri Horman was put on medication for the depression, and her doctor told Kaine to keep an eye on her to make sure she was OK, he said. But she wasn’t OK.
If Mr. Horman thought Ms. Horman was a chronic danger to her children and Mr. Horman’s son,why did he not mention it prior to October 25, 2010? Could it be that Mr. Horman’s entire series of pleadings are designed to push Ms. Horman with ever-increasing allegations to the point where she has no choice but to respond?
There are other clues that Mr. Horman’s latest version of events is not entirely accurate. According to more recent news stories, James is again living with his mother. Strange, considering Mr. Horman’s claims that James changed high schools mid-semester and moved hundreds of miles because of Ms. Horman’s behavior.
There are also hints concerning law enforcement’s interest in the Horman dissolution. A June 6, 2010, letter from Norm W. Frink, chief deputy district attorney for Multnomah County, rescinded his statement that un sealing the restraining order would undermine the “ongoing criminal investigation.” If Ms. Horman was the target of the investigation, what purpose would be served by sealing court documents that were to be served upon Ms. Horman? The only other person identified in the pleadings was an unnamed landscaper alleged to have been contacted by Ms. Horman.
As we now know, the landscaper was involved in what has been characterized as a botched sting operation against Ms. Horman. As such, the only person protected by the the seal was Ms. Horman to the extent that the seal prevented the allegations from being disseminated publicly. Or could it be that law enforcement was concerned about accuracy of the information provided by the landscaper?
Law enforcement conducted its sting operation over open channels that were accessible to anyone listening on police channels. Was this an oversight, or was it a convenient way to ensure the information was released “unintentionally”?
If there was any blame for promoting a bogus murder for hire plot, law enforcement could point to Ms. Horman as bringing upon her own misery. She chose to disclose the documents, and as a result, the information was disseminated because of her actions in violating a court order, not law enforcement’s efforts to run out a possible lead, even if later proven false.
We don’t know what role Michael Cook played in the disclosure of the now-public restraining order. The texts between he and Ms. Horman seems to indicate Mr. Cook was not so much interested in sexual banter as much as he was in gathering information for Mr. Horman
The roles of Mr. Cook and the landscaper are highly relevant to evidentiary issues. If the landscaper was a confidential informant, the information he reported that was used as basis for the restraining order could not then be considered an admission against interest. Same thing applies to Mr. Cook.
Mr. Cook in particular seems not to be acting out of concern for Kyron. Who the hell smirks at a vigil for a missing child?)
Reading Mr. Cook’s texts to Terri, there’s a tone that suggests that someone was sitting right next to him, telling him what to type. If true, the question becomes who is that someone guiding Mr. Cook’s actions?
The sexting is weird, but it is hardly ground breaking. The courts have heard such allegations many times before, and without a doubt, the court has seen far worse. That is not to see the court is going to like the texts. Rather, the judge here is going to look at the pleadings with a critical eye for issues that affect parenting time.
Mr. Horman does not offer any evidence that Ms. Horman ever sexted when she should have been parenting. To the contrary Ms. Horman’s lawyers can point to Mr. Horman’s other statements as evidence that Ms. Horman was the primary care giver for James, Kyron, and Kiara. Her extensive collection of family photographs on her Facebook page support this assertion.
Mr. Horman cannot credibly claim that Ms. Horman was a threat to the children, considering that he often left the kids in her care. Mr. Horman did not have any concerns about Ms. Horman’s sobriety and fitness to care for the children the morning Kryon disappeared from school, as he left Kiara in her care and allowed her to take Kyron to school.
If she was a drunk and mean spirited, would Mr. Horman have have allowed Ms. Horman to have access to Kyron’s school records, and to become involved in his discipline? Ms. Horman was a step parent to Kyron. She had no rights except to that which Mr. Horman granted in signed consent forms required by Kyron’s school.
The text messages are racy, but they do not indicate any homicidal tendencies or ill will toward anyone. Nothing in the texts is homicidal by any stretch.
Mr. Horman’s source for his allegations poses a huge problem here. He cites to “law enforcement” as telling him Ms. Horman tried to hire a hit-man, and as to other issues. Not one of these allegations is admissible under any exception to hearsay. The fact that Mr. Horman does not identify the source is a problem in itself. This information might as well be graffiti on the wall of the public bathroom at the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office.
Were Mr. Horman to say that he read an allegation on the a bathroom wall at the MCSO would at least give it some sort of context that would suggest credibility. Mr. Horman’s vague claim makes it impossible to identify which law enforcement office among thousands in the United States might have conveyed such information. Without further identification, the reader cannot tell if the “source” was in a position to have any such knowledge in the first place.
The hearsay allegations offered by Mr. Horman allege child abuse and domestic violence. Under the Confrontation Clause, Ms. Horman has a right to confront her accusers. Ms. Horman does not need to speak in order for her lawyers to cross examine the sources of these allegations.
“..Mr. Horman claims that judges believe there is sufficient information to implicate Ms. Horman in Kyron’s disappearance. This begs the question: How is it that Mr. Horman is getting this information?”
It seems likely that Mr. Horman is referring to search warrants, which require reliable information that the item sought can be found at that location. If Mr. Horman was in fact referring to search warrants, it would be very interesting to find out who provided the information for the searches and what exactly was law enforcement looking for?
If Mr. Horman was the informant, it raises questions as to motive because Mr. Horman wants custody of Kiara. If the landscaper was the affiant, his personal motive for revenge becomes an issue, if it true that Ms. Horman had law enforcement go to his house and expose his extramarital affair in front of his family.
What law enforcement was seeking matters. Ms. Horman’s specialty was in teaching children with learning disabilities. She would have had access to confidential psychological testing, mental health records, medical documents, and possibly, CPS records, none of which could be disclosed except by parent authorization, or pursuant to subpoena or search warrant. Even though she had not worked in that area for some time, she may still have had such records in her home or on her laptop.
If Ms. Horman had such documents or data on her laptop or among her personal papers, she could not turn it over except by subpoena. As such, the mere presence of a search warrant does not mean Ms. Horman is guilty of anything.
..”Mr. Horman’s threat to conduct extensive depositions seems a clear warning to Ms. Horman that he intends to call Ms. Horman’s friends to deposition, put them under oath, and ask them questions. Lots of questions. If Mr. Horman’s pleadings are any sort of a hint, he is not going to make people feel good about befriending Ms. Horman…”
Peter Bunch’s statements at the prior court hearing referencing a December 26 call to 9-1-1 also suggests that maybe something happened the day after Christmas 2009. The implication is that Mr. Bunch intends to discuss that December 26 9-1-1 call in more detail. Don’t expect Mr. Horman to like any of it.
Discovery procedures allow Mr. Horman to get at any information reasonably calculated to lead to discovery of admissible evidence. This does not mean the information specifically sought must be admissible, only that it could reasonably lead to evidence that would be admissible. By that definition, Mr, Horman could justify deposing a great many people in Ms. Horman’s life.
Peter Bunch’s statements at the prior court hearing referencing a December 26 call to 9-1-1 also suggests that maybe something happened the day after Christmas 2009.
Clearly, each of these people has reason to avoid going back to court.
The most confusing aspect of this case is the fact that the restraining order and dissolution were consolidated months ago. Ms. Horman’s attorney notes this in his July 12, 2010, letter to the court.
Given that there is an abatement order in place, how is it that Ms. Horman can go forward with her request for parenting time under the restraining order matter? You would think that Ms. Rackner would have noted this information to the court. But she didn’t. Yet another strange footnote in a even stranger case.
Law enforcement likes to push the weakest link. Ms. Horman seems to be that link. What information does law enforcement hope to gain? Who is law enforcement’s ultimate target?
..”If not Ms. Horman exclusively, or Ms. Horman in any capacity, then who exactly does law enforcement hope to catch by pushing Ms. Horman until she finally breaks?”
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CONCLUSION PART #3
Could a stripper tavern be “home” to some “vampires” ?
Bottoms Up Tavern
16900 NW St Helens Rd
Portland
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
JMHO questioning …
Here are some things that are percolating … anyone else wondering … ?
Lea mentioned TMH having “files/info” of “students” on her laptop, yes?
“IF” TMH was “given access” w/o being a “vetted PPS employee” what does THAT say about “student info/contact” & “security’ ?
“IF” you follow that line of reasoning, you than would want to ask WHY ?
WHAT would THAT student info/contact be USED for ?
WHAT was THAT student info/contact FOR ? -AND- for WHOM ?
Now that I have your attention, is THAT some of WHAT the Sheriff was talking about ?
When we look back … things we wish we did not know …? …things we will look back on ?
Also, he who wishes to remain nameless, has “mentioned” (Oregonian etc) that he is involved w/ child advocate … where he deals w/ children’s FILES …
We know BLINK does NOT put info out for public eyes w/o a REASON … SO what do y’all think ?
JMHO questioning ….
SouthernMom says: November 1, 2010 at 11:54 am
“ONE question I’m not sure has be answered with assurance… How did MC/phone/texts/sexts and LE meet up? Was MC asked to cooperate and if so, before or after the fact? The MSM reporting on MC and the Sext-Scandal would lead us to believe they were caught doing this by LE with MC having no knowledge or participation in any type of setup or sting. Would love to know for sure how this came about.”
Let’s just say that the texts are not what you think.
There are certain facts here that are not public and that specifically contradict the information about the cell phone records.
I am not trying to be cryptic, but I have forwarded this information to Blink along with my analysis. Stay tuned.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Skyline parent says: November 1, 2010 at 4:58 pm
“Lea – so after everything that has happened in the last five months you are taking what terri posts on linked in at face value? For serious? Okay, I keep trying to be respectful and realize that I come off as mysterious. Not my intent. So I will tell you that I never saw terri mistreat kyron. However I also never saw her hug or praise him either. She just wasn’t very warm. And she had a tendency to stretch the truth. In all fairness, none of that makes her guilty. But it’s been my observation that the only people coming out and saying she wasn’t capable of harming a child haven’t interacted with her in years. Moo”
Don’t mistake legal analysis for cheerleading. Her resume says she is trained in special ed. She may not have had a full time staff position, but I have not heard anything that proves that she does not have that training. Regardless, my point was that there are compelling reasons for not turning over items that police ask you to produce voluntarily.
There are also several other valid reasons for not talking to the police. This one is a tough one for most people, but a person can find him or herself arrested an charged with a crime even when he or she has not done anything wrong.
If you want further information about this, from the perspectives of a defense attorney and a law enforcement officer, check out the following video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865#
As far as “after everything that has happened in the last five months” goes, read my response to Southern Mom, above.
I don’t know if Ms. Horman was as warm as a December morning at the North Pole. There are parents who are cool and aloof yet 100% fit under the law. The law doesn’t say that a parent (or stepparent) must give lots of hugs and praise in order to be fit.
Conversely, there are lots of people who shower their kids with affection and praise in public and are complete nightmares behind closed doors, where they physically and emotionally abuse their kids.
Unfortunately, some people exaggerate complaints during divorce, or even out-right lie. The problem for the court becomes looking at a child to see whether his or her school performance and behavior fits the allegations.
As far as “stretching the truth,” I seem to recall Ms. Horman’s comments to the media after Kaine Horman moved out that everything was fine. That’s a social lie, to avoid admitting an embarrassing truth. It does not make her a murderer nor a kidnapper.
Going back to my earlier comments, there are things that we have been told that are not true. If you knew the facts I’m talking about, it might just change your mind about a great deal of what you believe about this case.
@Lea Conner
What do you think Lea? Is there any evidence TH committed any crime(s)here. I think Kaine has launched a “smear campaign” against his wife. This not looking good to me…nor is the criminal investigation. I hope I’m dead wrong.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Terri-Horman-Kaine-kyron-horman-missing-portland-106472338.html
OK, Lea….I think you just turned many of us on our ears….and I, like several others, will try to wait patiently for more. On the other hand, in some ways what you say is obvious through the fact that there have been no arrests, LE is very closed mouthed, and the sheer bizarre way in which this case has rolled out to date. Suffice it to say, nothing will surprise me. And I will still hope and pray that Kyron is safe and will be returned to his family. Why think anything else when clearly anything is possible?
Lea Conner says:
November 1, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Let’s just say that the texts are not what you think.
There are certain facts here that are not public and that specifically contradict the information about the cell phone records.
I am not trying to be cryptic, but I have forwarded this information to Blink along with my analysis. Stay tuned.
—————————————-
Going back to my earlier comments, there are things that we have been told that are not true. If you knew the facts I’m talking about, it might just change your mind about a great deal of what you believe about this case.
—————————————-
Okay Lea, fair enough, but why isn’t anyone setting the record straight about these untruths? I specifically mean MCSO. WTH? Please tell me they have a good reason for sitting back and letting someone be crucified in/by the public when they may be innocent? Their silence is as bad as hers. What are we supposed to think? I have a feeling that a lot of us are going to be pi$$ed when we get the real story – if we ever do. I’m not holding my breath. I will fully admit this if I’m wrong, but it’s starting to look like this case was mishandled from the start. God, I hope that’s not the case…….
From the “Houze/Bunch” response:
Line 3 Page 4 : “Similarly, Father and his lawyer gratuitously included ***17*** pages of deeply personal text message exchanges between Mother and mutual friend of Mother and Father.” …
We have only SEEN a SMALL sample of sexts.
There is more than meets the eyes …
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/terri+horman+reply.pdf
JMHO
_____________________________
@Lea Conner says: November 1, 2010 at 9:17 pm~
“Let’s just say that the texts are not what you think.
There are certain facts here that are not public and that specifically contradict the information about the cell phone records.
I am not trying to be cryptic, but I have forwarded this information to Blink along with my analysis. Stay tuned.”
Madilu,
I did not stumble upon what you were commenting on, but it sure sounds inappropriate to me too. My radar screams good ol’ boy politics, which ignited public opinion in the first place.
I’m glad this case went national.
Moo.
Madilu says:
October 31, 2010 at 5:15 pm
“And thanks fort he info about LE giving KH the info. That really seems inappropriate to me. How the hell can they let any piece of relevant information to the disappearance get out to anyone. Especially since the texting is, imo irrelevant to updating the father of a missing child…that information is not exactly a progress report on where Kyron is… Seems very unprofessional, at the very least.”
I would like to add to some of the posters who have suggested “a certain audience” each of KH motions are meant for …
Could the “sexts” being “made public” be for a “certain person” to SEE that WHAT they BELIEVED was a “PERSONAL – ONE- OF- A- KIND/ ONE & ONLY RELATIONSHIP” was in fact a run of the mill, standard operating BEHAVIOR of TMH & NOT special @ all ?
That that person is holding to a sense of allegiance to TMH but TMH has NO allegiance to that person ?
No only sexting w/ a short-term NEW acquaintance but also, w/ “RS/LS” ?
Is release of sexts to push the “third” person to reveal themselves, to come forward ?
JMHO
SoCalGal,
Just a couple of things:
Terri did not expressly ask MC to lie. I would have to read that God-aweful text extravaganza again, but it seems to me she asked him to not mention it, which is different than asking him to state it did not happen should he be asked. I hate mincing words, but in the true context of things — legally speaking, which is it based on my recollection?
Additionally, can you provide substantial evidence that KH is not sneaky? Has Terri muttered one single word about Kaine’s demeanor? If not, why might that be? Again, is Terri’s camp just kicking back to let the pieces fall where they may?
Skylineparent,
Thank you for your insight to the Hormans. I’m curious about Kaine’s involvement at the school. What was your general impression of him as a parent before Kyron went missing? I ask because we have seen pictures of TH at school reading to the class and taking pictures. And we heard that TH was at the school Thursday night for Kyrons display and report. Does anyone know if Kaine was there Thursday night?
3.Lea Conner says:
November 1, 2010 at 9:17 pm
SouthernMom says: November 1, 2010 at 11:54 am
Let’s just say that the texts are not what you think.
There are certain facts here that are not public and that specifically contradict the information about the cell phone records.
I am not trying to be cryptic, but I have forwarded this information to Blink along with my analysis. Stay tuned.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, what we will read in this next analysis will not be “hypothetical” but FACTUAL? Having worked in the forensic system in my state for 20 years, nothing surprises me anymore, Lea. Bring it on!
I did not realize you worked in forensics, that is such an important field in this work. Congrads and thank you.
B
@riverpearl
I think Lea Conner was saying that TH MAY have confidential records on her laptop as an example of why TH may not have wanted to voluntarily hand over her laptop to LE. I absolutely cannot imagine she would have any confidential information about special education students in her possession–it is illegal is she does. However, I guess her stint as a substitute for a teacher on maternity leave would have given her limited access to things like personal student information. If she did have any student information on her laptop then you can bet your bippy boo that she would not want to hand over her laptop to LE!!!
Riverpearl,
I agree with you about the project not being picked up and what it means. I also think that the exchange of the children (James and Ky) would have been in sync. If it was indeed everyother weekend that Ky visited his mother, then one would think that James would be picked up everyother weekend to visit the Horman house. James was on a boy scout camp trip that weekend, so I wonder if TH ever planned on Ky making it to Springfield. Then there was the story that TH was going to stay/visit someone down south that weekend. Sounds to me like someone was shoring up a story. JMO
Lea Conner says:
November 1, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Going back to my earlier comments, there are things that we have been told that are not true. If you knew the facts I’m talking about, it might just change your mind about a great deal of what you believe about this case.
*************************
Lea, since you are saying that we have been told many things that are not true-would you be able to say, at least, that we will be shocked by what is still to come out-or just mildly surprised?
49.SoCalGal says:
November 1, 2010 at 8:42 pm
I disagree with the legal commentary. (I’m a 30 year lawyer and former Judge).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It was so refreshing to read your post and get yet another opinion on the legal wrangling. Hope you stick around!
39.Idahogal says:
November 1, 2010 at 6:18 pm
So where are we at, folks? LE was focused on TH and had to change course…”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What did I miss, Idahogal? Bunch’s latest filing said that his client, TMH, is the focus of ongoing criminal investigations. When did LE change course?
Wordweaver says:
November 1, 2010 at 9:37 pm
OK, Lea….I think you just turned many of us on our ears…
~~~
wait .. wait .. gotta get up up off the floor.
Riverpearl 11-01-10 9:15pm
I agree with you again about the files. I think you are spot on with all that you said.
Lea Conner says:
November 1, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Going back to my earlier comments, there are things that we have been told that are not true. If you knew the facts I’m talking about, it might just change your mind about a great deal of what you believe about this case.
————
In the first place, I deeply appreciate the comments by Skyline Parent in helping me to understand this situation and TH. I also appreciate Ms. Conner’s analysis. I am sitting here in my home and don’t have Skyline’s first hand knowledge nor Ms. Conner’s inside info. I want so much to understand this case and am very interested to hear from both.
So I have to go back to guessing. What is it the sheriff knows that he wishes he didn’t know. I wonder what Ms. Conner knows that would change what we believe.
I guess I don’t understand why we are still kept in the dark. And I wonder if those who know more than I do still don’t have all the relevant information.
But I will say — I have always doubted the MFH plot. Also, I still believe TH was central to what happened to Kyron. If anything will surprise me, it will be that I am wrong about that.
Ms. Conner,
I am on my ear with Wordweaver, wondering if the white truck and the red mustang was in fact speeding around SI together, or if we are simply to believe that there is more to the sexts. I will stay tuned, but have to wonder why the facts you speak of are being withheld. (I just may have to go back through all the threads and read news@5 tonight). If you have time to answer, how do you think things will play out on the Nov. 04 hearing?
Lea says, “Going back to my earlier comments, there are things that we have been told that are not true. If you knew the facts I’m talking about, it might just change your mind about a great deal of what you believe about this case.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1-Things that we have been told by whom? By the media, by KH, by DY, by MC, by Blink?
2-What facts ARE you talking about?
3-How do you know these facts are true/not true?
4-It would change what we believe about WHICH case? The alleged MFH? The abduction/presumed murder of Kyron? The divorce filing? The Kiara visitation filings?
Just askin’…this is how I roll in my day job.
@Lea Conner says: November 1, 2010 at 9:17 pm …
It’s no surprise to most of us that there’s something ‘else’ going on, the question that’s been driving many is “What?!”
What do you suggest people put their efforts toward at this point? I appreciate saving people the hassle of researching things that don’t ultimately matter, but admit it’s a little discouraging to know that searching is pointless because we have faulty information. We also don’t know how much of it is completely faulty etc.
31.evie says:
“.. I accept that this link might not be popular here but here’s one place to get an idea:”
Whoa. DeDe sure can pick ‘em.
@riverpearl- Aha, I know where you’ve been looking around, me too! As nasty as the place is, and the customers (did you read the comments?! ewww), I can’t connect any dots there so far. IDK why men like to hang out in titty bars, but they do, ugh. Maybe not all men, again, IDK. I’m more intersted in someone else right now and I wish I was a cop or PI so I could get my hands on more stuff. Argh!
49.SoCalGal says:
November 1, 2010 at 8:42 pm
From one former SoCalGal to another, I like you style and hope you will post more.
@LeaConner and Blink – I certainly hope a new piece is forthcoming, I feel a seizure coming on…
OMG! I am chomping at the bit!!!!!! And that is an UNDERSTATEMENT!!
sigh…
@Lea Conner
Hi you say we have not heard the truth, I say we haven’t heard
anything at all really
dibble talk suggestive talk
I know I personally do not care for ugly nasty
devorces
so I hope they can be civil
I keep thinking Terri refers to 2years
do you know what that is about not how long
we get to watch them fight in court I hope
Big Thanks for being here:)
I am surprised that there are posters here are taking what TH put down in her on line resume as fact. She has misrepresented herself on so many issues how can one assume that her self written resume is truthful.
I had a special education resume. I listed the years I taught, exactly where I taught, and what population I taught. I included my appropriate credentials not just specialtiesas she did “special education” or “reading.” Each credential is valid for teaching in a special population of students such as classroom elementary K-6 or high school English literature. There are different types of special education credentials i.e.. for severely handicapped…… I am out of the loop but her resume doesn’t ring true. It takes up to 5 years minimum of college training to teach special ed. And to have a reading endorsement. No way.
I did not read in her resume that she was “trained in special education” as one poster wrote or even a had a special ed credential of any sort let alone a reading credential. She may be a certified teacher of some sort but not a certified special ed or reading teacher. If you have the appropriate credentials you are going to list them. Just because it is in her resume doesn’t mean it is so. Also, if she has no actual classroom teaching experience it is normal to list where you student taught and include your references.
I have no idea what OSC or YSC is or have ever heard the word “typical” used in a school setting. I think she is just puffing her resume with catch words and phrases hoping to get an interview. Then hoping to “bluff” her way into a job. Her resume is very weak and vague.
Did she actually substitute as a certified teacher or did she substitute actually as a teacher’s aide instead??? Big difference.
It would be interesting to know. One of my granddaughter’s mothers who lives in the same area as Terri did said she was a teacher when in fact she was a preschool teaching assistant. It was very misleading. Terri did say certified teacher so she must have some certification.
I think that Montana Mom has it right when she says
@ Montana Mom says: TH’s linked in site says she attended college for 2 years from 1998-2000 and became a certified teacher in 2000. Not gonna happen. Especially with a special education AND reading specialist endorsement. And what is OSC and YSC? I googled both and I got a list of TH information–I guess because of her linked in page. I thought that was funny. And teaching ‘typical’ with ADD, ODD, ADHD, Down’s Syndrome, ETC just means she substituted in regular and/or special education rooms. Big whoop. Wonder if she was ever even interviewed for a full-time position. And if she attended college before 1998, why didn’t she list that? She listed her high school and 2 years of college. I don’t get it.
Petitioner’s Response to Respondent’s Motion: AS IT RELATES specifically to BABY,
Designed to demonstrate or prove NEGLECT, ABUSE, or SAFETY
The following is my breakdown, non fluff, non legal understanding:
*BABY RELATED ONLY POINTS (KH on why TH is a harmful risk to baby):
-TH made a destructive and chaotic environment for baby. (therefore)
-baby not on proper sleeping schedule
-baby not attached to Mom
-baby had no set routine or structure
-baby put safely in fitness kids club while Mom socialized/worked out.
-baby was abnormally tired and fussy for her age, cuz of Mom
-TH attempted to see//snatch her from Fitness kid club, during RO.
-TH is not financially supporting baby
-Now that I am in control, so baby has HUGELY benefited.
-Now that I am in control, baby is THRIVING.
-Now that I am in control, baby is well-adjusted.
MY POINTS: That’s it. That’s all. Everything is relative. Nothing is measurable, quantifiable. It’s all KH personal opinion.
-KH is not an early childhood behavior expert.
-KH put forth no report or reference to reports of baby having been evaluated professionally at any time as to whether there is a dis-associative disorder at play OR as to if her behavior is normal for her age. If such measures at any time occurred, then they would be included in support of his response.
-The fact that she is not supporting baby is laughable. He nor his attorney have made a formal request/motion for child support, and have it be subsequently be denied by Respondent.
-No medical records were produced to support history of injury.
-No specific injuries to baby occurred while under Mom’s care
-No specific incident was named to demonstrate safety lapses, abuse, or neglect.
I think that out of the ENTIRE affidavit, the ONLY compelling issue to look at is the fact, that TH tried to see/possibly snatch the baby while under a court ordered restraining order. EVERYTHING else is about KH feelings towards and thoughts about Terri, including specific threats.
What his Response GROSSLY LACKS are specifics demonstrating unfitness to obtain supervised parenting time with comments such as:
-In March 2010, she slapped (hit, kicked, pinched, drugged) baby
-She yelled (screamed at) baby every day
-In August 2009, she left the baby unattended in a vehicle/at home.
-Baby was diagnosed with x, y, and z on such and such date.
-Baby broke her arm on xx/xx/xx after falling off the couch while Mom was drunk.
-Baby was not fed properly, and was shown to be malnourished.
-Baby had unexplained bruises on her consistently.
-Baby has been to the ER x times, and attached are medical records.
(You get the picture). IMO, the judge will follow the law, and will not separate baby and mother. All kinds of people from a variety of socioeconomic backgrounds do not abide by set routines, keep their kids up late, plop them in front of the TV for hours on end, or with babysitters, etc. (while they are on the computer, working out, and perhaps drinking alcohol). None of which constitutes the termination of parental rights.
The remainder of the Affidavit, which is by far the BULK of it, is NOT baby specific, yet KH vs. TH specific. My non-expert, objective breakdown is in my next post. Stay tuned for PART TWO
PART TWO:
Dear your honor,
I care about the safety and welfare of my children, and here’s why:
-TH needs to start talking, and soon, or else she won’t get to see K.
-I got an RO cuz I heard she might have hired someone to kill me.
-I am suspicious that she was involved with harming Ky
-We shared responsibility for the kids, and even tho I saw some major drinking, I never took action in support of kids.
-I suspect she is unfit
-TH has a history of drinking and a DUI 5 years ago.
-TH’s functioning has been impaired by alcohol since baby was born.
-TH walks around looking drunk several nights a week, and has ufnky sleep patterns.
-When I try to take control and put baby to bed, Terri tells me to get lost.
-Th’s drinking and depression affect how she cared for baby.
-I think she is mentally ill and disturbed.
-TH only thinks about herself and what she looks like.
-TH did whatever she wanted all day long, and baby was just an accessory.
-TH went to the gym all the time. But shelied to me! She wasn’t working off her weight, she was socializing with others! Since Kyron went missing, all kinds of gossips have come out of the woodwork and told me how she chats at flirts at the gym!
- TH spent an UNHEALTHY amount of time on the computer playing around.
-I repeat: TH is mentally ill! TH drinks! TH is UNSTABLE!
-I repeat: TH hurt Kyron, I just know it. I totally suspect her.
-TH was the last to be seen with Kyron, and won’t help find him.
-TH failed a polygraph and walked out on the third one.
-I repeat again: TH behaves very suspiciously.
-TH won’t give me answers about Kyron, even though I harassed her for days on end for answers.
-TH just plain won’t answer me!
-TH just won’t explain anything to me!
-TH is just cold, showed no emotion.
-I repeat: TH only thinks about herself.
-TH even hired a lawyer!
-I harassed her over and over about what happened on June 4th. She shut me out.
-I walked out on Terri, and took the baby too – I sure let her know (through texting) that I knew what she was up to, cuz the police told me what she did!
-TH lied to the media about everything being kosher at home!
-TH knew I was suspicious from her cuz I had harassed her time and again for answers.
-I repeat for the 4th time: Her behavior is unusual and suspect.
-I repeat again: TH is emotionally disturbed, and that’s why I am suspicious that she hurt Kyron.
-TH sexted with a HS buddy of mine, after I kicked her out of the house and public was scrutinizing her! I would show you pictures, but I’m not gonna.
-I repeat: TH is a liar, and she has an expensive lawyer and she call shim “lawyer extraordinaire!”
-TH the house was bugged and she was being monitored, and wanted to avoid it all.
-TH went to my old HS buddy’s house, and didn’t want anyone to know (can you believe that?)
-TH didn’t wanna get in trouble.
-TH still won’t talk to me about June 4th.
-TH wants to preserve her 5th amendment rights.
-I repeat again: I want Terri to talk, and until she does I won’t let her see baby.
-Hey judge, I’m in the “know” –other judges are suspicious of her too.
-Did I mention that she won’t talk.
-TH is not concerned about Kyron, even though I am holding all the cards when it comes to baby.
-I repeat again: TH is selfish.
-TH won’t put herself on the stand in order to see baby.
-TH is letting her lawyers do all the talking.
-Terri is keeping to herself, and I have no idea where her head is at.
In summary, I believe she is disturbed and unfit, and her actions horrify me.
************************************************************
Does anyone see a recurring theme in this document?
Does anyone see that the BULK of it is STRICTLY KH opinion about TH?
Does anyone recognize that the document has much MORE to do with suspicions about Ky, and smearing of Mom -than about actual demonstrated risk to baby?
Does anyone see the several very clear THREATS in this? It feels like blackmail in a way -”Talk, or else!”
Does anyone wanna throw a tomato at me or TP my house?
Juz sayin’ here blinkers -this is a LOT of spaghetti, and it is Al-Dente at best as it relates to the legality of keeping her daughter from her. I am not saying that I agree with visitation on a personal level due to her morals, but I do value our legal system. Will be interesting to see how judge rules. I don’t see how he can rule against parenting time, given this overwhelmingly non-compelling argument that consists primarily of opinions and suspicions.
(This post is dedicated to Lea).
From the analysis by Lea Conner:
“What law enforcement was seeking matters. Ms. Horman’s specialty was in teaching children with learning disabilities. She would have had access to confidential psychological testing, mental health records, medical documents, and possibly, CPS records, none of which could be disclosed except by parent authorization, or pursuant to subpoena or search warrant. Even though she had not worked in that area for some time, she may still have had such records in her home or on her laptop.
“If Ms. Horman had such documents or data on her laptop or among her personal papers, she could not turn it over except by subpoena.”
————————————-
These comments inspired me to look at TH’s educational background again. We only have her version either directly (as online) or through friends/family. I wanted to see what we know that supports that her “specialty was in teaching children with learning disabilities.” I know we have done timelines before, but I decided to try again.
Information from OREGONIAN ARTICLE Aug. 19, 2010, and from additional research:
June 1988 HS grad (track and discus throwing, with dad involved)
Nov 1991 married Ron Tarver Jr.
Jan 1994 James born
Nov 1995 divorce from Tarver
then McDonald’s management school
———————————————-
Aug 1996 married Richard Ecker – moved to Springfield
Mar 1998 car accident, followed by year of migraines and going to school
Aug 1998 Ecker adopted James (Tarver having financial problems, said OK)
(term?) ‘00 graduated from NW Christian University with
Bachelor’s in Elem Ed, got basic teaching license
————————————————-
Feb 2001 moved to Beaverton, bought house with parents’ help
Mar 2001 got substitute job in Hillsboro
Sept 2001 –
June 2002 sub work – Hillsboro
Jan 2002 divorced Ecker, lived with teacher colleague (w James)
Ecker pays child support
—————————————————
Spring 2002 James is 8 years old, Terri begins spending hours a
day at gym
June 2002 met Kaine in a restaurant, began dating
Aug 2002 Desiree files for divorce
Sept 9 02 Kyron born
—————————————————-
mid-Dec 02 Terri and James move in with Kaine in Aloha
2003 got Master’s in Education – still had basic tchg
license
2003-06 on call sub for Hillsboro
————————————————-
Jan 2005 gym – serious training, wt loss, sleep issues, anger
problems
– April 05 drinking to get to sleep (admitted after DUI diversion
program, it seems)
——————————————————
July 05 DUI with James in car
Dec 05 – on 12 month probation
Aug 06 worked at Red Robin
—————————————————-
Jan 2007 moved to NW Portland with Kaine
March 07 let tchg license lapse (it renews by birthdate)
April 2007 married Kaine, got new Mustang
worked at Washington Sq. Newport Bay, assistant mgr
—————————————————
Nov 2008 Kiara born
moody, angry with James, Kyron, and later baby’s sleep
patterns
collecting unemployment
2009 some changes in relationship, some drinking,
complaining to friends re
Kaine controlling the money, he worries about her
spending
hired landscaper (James’ job was mow lawn), MFH plan
alleged
Feb 2010 renewed tchg license by submitting coursework in lieu
of experience
arranged for James to move in with her parents
has ongoing affair
time married to Tarver = 4 years
time married to Ecker = a bit less than 5 ½ years
time with/ married to KH = lived together about 4 ½ years, married 3+
If Terri started working on her Bachelor’s when she first moved to Springfield, she would have had about 4 years to get it done by 2000.
There’s enough time around 2002 and 2003 to do a 5th year Masters in Teaching program, but the Reading Specialist endorsement should have been in addition to her basic work, as would anything related to Special Education endorsement. She would have been going to classes, studying, doing sub work (she was on call until 2006), taking care of James and Kyron, and probably continuing to go to a gym. She was not simply sitting home being a fulltime mom – not critical of that, just clarifying. On top of that, with James and Kyron gone to visit other parents some of the time and Kaine able to work from home or vary his hours, she wasn’t just a “trapped housewife” either. And they had vacations, etc.
What strikes me most, I suppose, is:
(1) TH never seems to find what it is that will make her feel satisfied with her life in general – which, of course, is only found inside yourself. I don’t need to explain it to those of you here, I’m sure, but to me, her life feels almost nomadic, like a quest that never ends. If you are looking to outside sources for your happiness and you feel they let you down, it can become easier and easier to feel discouraged and angry, and to reject them and move on.
She needs personal counseling.
(2) looking at the timing of her adult life and the frequent changes she makes, it appears to me that it was time to think about being prepared to move on again. Preparing to go back to work isn’t uncommon even in happy relationships, of course, but her career moves seem more like a country line dance than an effort to achieve a goal. Very early in the case, someone connected to LE told me (and that was the last thing I heard from him) that when the parents who were frequent volunteers were asked about her, they said “Who?” – and didn’t seem to know who she was. Hard to get references that way.
Over the period of time she was a sub, March 2001 through June 2006, (and she could have gotten on the sub list in more than one district if she was seriously looking for a permanent job), it would be unusual here for someone who is skilled, dedicated, friendly, and cooperative not to find a job through their substituting experiences and recommendations, even with budget cuts. (She also needed a good career counselor if she seriously wanted to work in education.)
—————
http://www.oregon.gov/TSPC/ click on “licensure” to see what the possible descriptions are according to the timeline we’ve been given.
——————-
http://www.pacificu.edu/coe/academics/advanced/endorsements/reading.cfm
Pacific University’s College of Education offers a 15-17 semester-credit reading specialist endorsement program that meets the Oregon Teacher Standards and Practices Commission requirements for an add-on endorsement to the initial teaching license. This endorsement program prepares teachers to serve as Title I or reading specialists in their schools and districts . . .
The Reading Specialist endorsement may be obtained by completing 15 semester hours comprising core courses and the requirements (courses and practica) for two authorization levels: Early Childhood (ECE) and Elementary (Elem) or Middle School (MS) and High School (HS). Candidates may earn the reading endorsement that qualifies them to teach reading to students PreK through grade twelve by completing 17 semester hours comprising core courses, specialty courses for both authorization levels, and multilevel practica. In addition to coursework, the candidate must pass the Reading Specialist Praxis. Oregon requires a minimum score of 610.
1.MiaBella says:
October 31, 2010 at 9:15 Are they still meeting?
MiaBella,
Yes, they are, under super-security.
Prayers for Kyron.
Well, for what it’s worth – it’s possible that MC didn’t like Kaine at all and he and TH conspired to fabricate the sexting to set him up to believe there was something really going on between them – like reliving 9th grade all over again. But then they would have both stood in the way of this investigation and ought to be prosecuted for that, if nothing else.
Or Terri and DeDe had a bit too much to drink and were trading places in the pictures to fool MC, who apparently didn’t care much for either of them.
Either there are real records recovered through phone technology or there are not. If there are or are not, I’m not sure how either way would affect the divorce or the custody issues or the investigation other than the obvious time and energy. LE is allowed to lie as an investigative technique but I’m not sure how much protection that gives them against a lawsuit if the lying causes other problems.
Maybe it was a conspiracy to raise the value of Terri’s life story to whoever is willing to pay for it – and THAT was the big fundraising idea Terri’s friend suggested.
Or I halfway expect to hear that Terri couldn’t talk because she was an undercover agent investigating the gym and drug/porn trade. And of course, DeDe actually owns the orphanage in Mexico and checks a mirror each day to see who is the fairest, most beautiful in Sky-land, but each time the mirror says “Terri”.
It’s almost 1 A.M. and I am waiting for the washing machine. Take this post with a grain of salt, please.
At this point, I’m not really sure WHO has the credibility in my book to tell me something is fact and get me to believe it without a trainload of proof.
The current discussion is disheartening for anyone who has followed this case and is desperately wishing for some break, some arrest, some truth to come about.
Taken the to and fro between Kaine´s and Terri´s lawyers at face value, this is a divorce and custody battle and it is only natural for each side to try and make the other one look as bad as possible. With Kyron´s fate still in the air, it is obvious that Kaine (and Desiree, too) are becoming increasingly desparate. They are hurting, lashing out at who they believe to be responsible, which is understandable but at the same time may be detrimental for the investigation rather than helping it along by putting pressure on the suspect.
There are many things in Terri Horman´s behavior that we have seen that make her look incredibly suspicious, more than we have seen from any other person mentioned in this case including Rudy and Anselmo, who are less focused on by the news outlets. So, I guess it is only natural that when we are hoping for the perp to be finally caught, many of us are consciously or subconsciously identifying the perp with Terri.
With this background, it is truly distressing to see Kaine making mistakes, and Blink and Lea pointing them out, which may possibly result in Terri improving her position in the divorce/custody battle and even in the investigation. At this point, it feels as if they are making mistakes that will allow a “perp” to walk scott free. Which goes against all that we hope for, and believe in. It is infuriating.
But Lea and Blink are very right in pointing out that there is a lot that we do not know, including the actual reasons for Terri´s behavior and silence. Without knowing these reasons, we cannot really understand or evaluate her actions. As Terri is not helping anyone to do so, she herself is responsible for looking as guilty as she does, and nobody can be blamed for believing that she is.
Yet, all that we can – and have to – do right now is remember, and try to find a little bit of comfort in the fact, that this is *not* about proving Terri Horman guilty, this is about finding the true perp responsible for little Kyron´s fate, whoever they may be.
Lea said, “Going back to my earlier comments, there are things that we have been told that are not true. If you knew the facts I’m talking about, it might just change your mind about a great deal of what you believe about this case.”
Told by whom? KH? Media? A “leak” from LE? TMH still seems to be the stinky cheese, and lots will have to be revealed to the contrary before her timeline no longer reeks with a high level of guilt. Still with narcissistic attachment troubles, not passing LD, not helping find Ky,running scared (does “snitching” mean something THEN will happen to Ky? Is he over the border? Is that where the ultimate MFH will take/has taken place?), sexting her addiction—yes, it stinks. Not talking for this length of time in and of itself is criminal, IMO.
I suppose now that her attys may be starting some well-placed “leaks”, and every reporter or legal secretary will start coming out of the wood work with snippets of KH’s dirty laundry. However, I hope we remember he did pass a LD, he’s the bio dad of Ky, and TMH’s target. All thoughts MOO.
Madilu – i think you need to take a pill and get off Kaine’s back. I don’t know what your legal background is, if any, but until you’ve walked in this man’s shoes I think you should back off.
@SoCalGirl: I was of the same mind as you and thank you for your post about the legal proceedings. I would like to hear more from you. Perhaps what you would do if you were in Rackners shoes? <this would be interesting And also, what you would have done differently.
I realize that Lea Conner was playing devils advocate but I like others believe that some assessments of the situation were not quite right. (Partly because i have lived with an alcoholic over the years and I know the level of manipulation they are capable of.) I do appreciate her coming here to discuss with us however and hope she sticks around.
Lea Conner says:
snip
Let’s just say that the texts are not what you think.
There are certain facts here that are not public and that specifically contradict the information about the cell phone records.
~~~~
bump…and wow…specifically contradict…hmmm
I did notice initially that the exhibit does not list the texts chronologically…
lol, I may venture a guess at your line of work counselor.
Good Observation.
B
Madilu — GREAT analysis of Kaine’s response. Loved it. Nice, simple layperson’s terms
. One point, though, that’s jumped out to me several times in other posts too. IIRC, Terri went to the gym and asked them to let her know if Kaine came in with Kiara during the weekend Kaine took Kiara away, but BEFORE the actual RO was in place. This was a time of chaos when Terri was pleading with him to bring the baby back. There are plenty of things to point the finger at Terri on, but trying to “kidnap” Kiara or violate the RO in this way is just not one of them.
I’ve been reading some (and scrolling a lot) at GLP because Flymonkey has apparently gone from SM to GLP to discuss DDS. Posters there are picking up Lea’s analysis here and taking it over there. Snipped part of this post:
“But, whatever Lea knows, it will NOT be printed at Blink’s as long as it is what Blink calls “case sensitive.” Meaning, I think, that the info should not get out yet because if it did, that would disrupt the LE investigation and/or the DA’s later prosecution. Stuff that only the not-yet-apprehended players would know.”
Posted by dogcat, 11/2/2010 8:36 AM
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1170793/pg719
_________________________
I think that’s right. Don’t want us to get our hopes up too much, too early here.
Lea Conner says:
November 1, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Let’s just say that the texts are not what you think.
There are certain facts here that are not public and that specifically contradict the information about the cell phone records.
—————–
From the Sent and Recvd the record of these texts comes from MC’s phone. It is likely that he gave KH these texts rather than LE.
The person on the Recvd end talks about Kitty, clean phones, DeDe and Houze. So unless these texts are doctored it implies that they were with TH and not DD.
Are they entirely fabricated? Was it a set-up having someone pretend to be TH? If so, then I think the bench pressing part was genius.
14.GraceintheHills says:
November 1, 2010 at 10:58 pm
@grace- I am basing my statement on Blink’s comment below, I could be wrong via misinterpretation.
44.ISpy says:
October 21, 2010 at 1:37 am
Ispy- Both Desiree and Kaine admitted they had recent issues with Kyron in terms of listening/authority at school. In fact, they went on to say they had concern that those very discussions with him may have caused him to leave with someone he would not normally follow (para).
I am not sure if the average person is aware how difficult it is for LE to switch gears when they lock in on a “suspect”.
B
8.riverpearl says:
November 1, 2010 at 10:05 pm
That that person is holding to a sense of allegiance to TMH but TMH has NO allegiance to that person ?
No only sexting w/ a short-term NEW acquaintance but also, w/ “RS/LS” ?
Is release of sexts to push the “third” person to reveal themselves, to come forward ?
@riverpearl- Well said, that is exactly where I’m at…who is this person?!?! Do you think we are on to something here? It fits in so many ways for me but is all speculation, you know? Nuts!
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Blink, can I post my questions about those letters or is it a non-issue now? TIA.
I am not sure I understand your question, if it is what I think, that is a pending legal matter so I would prefer not to.
B
Oops, hit submit with my elbow…
About the texts/sexts- we know there were “hundred” of them, right? IMO the one that KH put in his motion were just a select few for a specific purpose and/or audience. IMO there is a lot of info. to be gleaned from the remaining texts: Who were they between? What were they about? Then throw in emails and info. from computers and cell phones, not just TH’s but others as well and it is safe to say that we don’t know the half of it. We may see the tip of the iceberg, but just like the Titanic, when we realize how big it really is, OH SNAP!
I mean no disrespect to anyone and enjoy reading this blog. I wonder, though, how is it that Lea (or anyone) has facts not made public in this case?
I’m sick that there is no more public news in this case right now, and I find myself checking in everyday to see if Kyron has been found.
@Steffi says:
November 2, 2010 at 4:27 am
Very well said, Steffi.
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Never thought this would still be such a mystery after 5 months.
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
Dear Blink, I think you are watching me through that eyeball up there. It seems you leave whenever I make a post…very suspicious.
lol
B
Regarding reports on computers, what if she worked social services, or immigrations. Would she have confidential information on her computer. If she did work for an agency regarding children, that would be something that LE would advise people to mention to reporters and such. We don’t know when her linkdin profile was made, I made mine a couple of years ago (probably should update it) Mentioning her employment would be putting other children and families in danger. Maybe she was doing an internship of sorts which would mean she wouldn’t have been making an income, Houze, she would have to pleading the 5th, “other investigations”(and the father knows this) and might be the link between Else and Kids with Sanchez. Ransom would not be $$$ but give me back my family and you get back your kyron. it would account for letting the vampire in and would be an isolated event. Idk how the sexting would fit in. all hypothetically speaking of course