Kyron Horman Case Update: Blinkoncrime.com Legal Analyst Lea Conner Weighs In
Portland, OR- Please Welcome Again blinkoncrime.com Contributing Editor And Legal Analyst, Washington Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner.
Although I am not licensed in Oregon, I grew up there and was a news reporter for several years in that state, during which time I covered the cops and courts beat. My practice in Washington state deals in family law matters. As such, I can comment as to my knowledge of family law and court proceedings, but my comments are general analysis, not legal advice.
Kaine Horman’s pleadings of October 25, 2010, unleashed a tempest of charges against his wife, claiming she was a raging drunk whose inability to control her anger and her drinking had already caused her to give up custody of one child prior to the disappearance of her stepson on June 4, 2010. Unlike his prior, more tersely-written court filings, Mr. Horman’s words are more personal and angry. They are also contradicted by his prior statements to the court and to the media, and the very documentation he provided as part of his October 25 court papers.
The latest round of pleadings from Mr. Horman seems to fit a far bigger effort by Mr. Horman and Desiree Young to push Ms. Horman to the point where she would be forced to speak in her own defense. Ms. Horman’s own writings within days of Kryon’s disappearance evidence her Achilles heel in that Ms. Horman complained loudly about criticism heaped upon her via the internet.
What followed was a whisper campaign of purported law enforcement leaks about Ms. Horman and people around her that has continually kept her name in the news since June 4, 2010. Mr. Horman’s court filings also evidence an effort to keep Ms. Horman under constant public scrutiny, by filing multiple motions over time that could have been either avoided or filed jointly.
Consider this: Kaine Horman failed to mention in his June 28, 2010, restraining order application that he wanted his wife out of the house and, as a result, on July 1, 2010, filed an amended petition for restraints and asked for an expedited hearing.
“..This omission is an odd oversight, considering that Mr. Horman filed for divorce, took the parties’ child, but failed to ask for the house. Possession of the family home is such a basic issue it would seem impossible for a family law attorney to forget to mention it in a party’s opening paper…”
Filing a separate motion to seek return of the family home seems like a good strategy for someone seeking to keep the focus on Ms. Horman. It’s new information to the media, whereas the fact that Kryon remained missing and Mr. Horman and Ms. Young’s suspicions about Ms. Horman were yesterday’s headline.
Early on in criminal investigation and prior to the divorce filing, Mr. Horman described his wife in benign terms. As the weeks stretch on, these descriptions became increasingly negative. Mr. Horman and Ms. Young both stated their objective was to keep the focus on Kyron. In the absence of anything new to report, both parents embarked on a campaign to slowly heap increasing pressure on Ms. Horman to talk.
From the law enforcement perspective, Ms. Horman is a natural suspect, given her relationship to the victim and the fact that she was the last person known to have been seen with him. Except for anonymous leaks and rumors, the only people who have put their names to allegations are Mr. Horman and Kyron’s mother Desiree Young. Both claim their information comes from law enforcement, but both have disagreed at times as to the credibility of the information they shared publicly. Such was the case with Ms. Young’s claim that Kyron was last seen outside the school near a white truck, while Mr. Horman quickly corrected her, saying the information had not been confirmed.
“..Without Ms. Young and Det. Tony Young in the room, Mr. Horman seems to have gone off script and now cannot control his message nor his anger. Mr. Horman angrily complains about horrible things that might have happened in front of Kiara, yet he cannot say what exactly became of Kyron, and whether there is any evidence to suggest Kiara was a witness to this unspecified event…”
In his most recent pleadings, Mr. Horman angrily recounts that Ms. Horman claimed she was going to the gym, but since their separation, he has come to believe that she spent the time talking to people and flirting. The portrait of a social butterfly chatting people up at the gym for hours on end doesn’t quite fit with Mr. Horman’s other claims that she was an angry, depressed new mother who drank her self blotto and could not maintain any sort of civility toward those around her.
Which is it? Was Ms. Horman a mean drunk who drank herself to sleep, or was she self-absorbed and social, staying up to all hours playing on the Internet while her child sat in the same room unattended and un-engaged? Or was she a social butterfly who spent most of her time outside the home while Mr. Horman was super dad, working long hours from home, caring for the children, and providing an income that he never could enjoy because Ms. Horman was spending it all? The claims are so disjointed, it is as though Mr. Horman decided to throw spaghetti at the wall, just to see what might stick.
Mr. Horman’s over-reaching was fore shadowed in an earlier motion filed on July 12, 2010, alleging Ms. Horman had violated the courts seal on the restraining order. The pleadings in the contempt matter went well beyond Mr. Horman’s claim that Ms. Horman allegedly disclosed confidential court papers to Michael Cook.
Mr. Horman asserted that Ms. Horman was involved with a sexual relationship with Mr. Cook and had sent him hundreds of text messages, most of which were sexual in nature (AKA “sexting”). These text messages allegedly included images of “graphic sexual activity,” though no such photos have been filed with the court.
“..Mr. Horman accused Ms. Horman of lacking any genuine affection for Kyron or Kiara saying that although her texts said she missed both children, the mentions were few. The implication of the narrative was that Ms. Horman could not possibly care about either child…”
Except for the specific passage alleging Ms. Horman shared a confidential document with Mr. Cook, none of the other allegations had anything to do with the underlying motion. None of these claims addressed the issue of whether Ms. Horman violated the court order, nor do they indicate any involvement by Ms. Horman in Kyron’s disappearance.
Mr. Horman went on to claim that an unnamed member or members of law enforcement “informed” him that the sexualized text messages “resemble” text messages sent to the “the man Respondent [Ms. Horman] previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner [Mr. Horman].” Mr. Horman claimed in the same July 1 2court papers that Ms. Horman had asked Mr. Cook to lie to her attorney about “the fact that she had gone to Mr. Cook’s home.”
One news outlet found Mr. Horman’s pleadings so lurid it titled the document “sleazy.pdf” before posting it to its website.
On October 25, 2010, Mr. Horman finally filed the aforementioned text messages with the court, as an exhibit attached to his response to Ms. Horman’s parenting time request. A review of these document reveals that Ms. Horman never asked Mr. Cook to lie, nor did she speak of Kyron and Kiara in dismissive tones. Although most of the texts showed varying degrees of sexual discussion, there were also several texts that had nothing to do with Ms. Horman’s romantic attachments. Ms. Horman discussed cooking, eating “nutterbutter bites,” weight lifting, and their respective children.
..”Ms. Horman told Mr. Cook, “I was really upset that Kaine has Kitty but doesn’t know what her favorite toy or blanket is.”
-Terri Horman
A parent who does not care about her daughter would not waste a single moment worrying about her child having her favorite toy or blanket. The allegation that Mr. Horman did not know such basic information about his daughter provides motive for Mr. Horman to attempt to discredit Ms. Horman’s words as insincere. Otherwise, Ms. Horman’s words are truthful and reflect her historical relationship as primary care giver to both children.
On July 28, 2010, Mr. Horman filed yet another motion demanding Ms. Horman reveal the source of funds used to pay her lawyer. It was as though Mr. Horman was asking how Ms. Horman could have ever come up with that kind of money, given her status as a social pariah?
The problem with Mr. Horman’s strategy of piecemeal litigation it does not serve the purpose of expediting litigation. Instead, it creates a lot of embarrassment and harassment for Ms. Horman.
Oregon is a no-fault divorce state. This means that either party can ask for a divorce without having to prove any wrongdoing. Oregon is also an “equitable distribution” state which means that the court divides property equitably between the parties. Issues like infidelity and rude behavior are not factors in whether a party is entitled to divorce, or in dividing up the parties assets.
Mr. Horman raises several issues about Ms. Horman’s alleged conduct citing them as as basis to award sole custody and care of Kiara. The allegations are such that it becomes difficult for Ms. Horman to leave any responses up to her lawyer, who would not have personal knowledge required to speak to the many issues he raises.
Ultimately, the court will consider the allegations made by each party, weigh the credibility and relevance of each claim as to parenting issues then enter a temporary order as to the care and custody of the child.
Mr. Horman claims in his October 25 filings that Ms. Horman has a five year history of alcohol impairment. In his statement to the court, Mr. Horman claimed that his wife “could have an un diagnosed personality disorder or some type of emotional disturbance.”
The most recent claims by Mr. Horman are contradicted by his prior assertions in media interviews, and the actual chronology of the Hormans’ relationship.
Mr. Horman met Ms. Horman in the spring of 2002. According to Mr. Horman, the couple moved in together in December 2002. The couple was living together when Ms. Horman was cited for DUI on July 10, 2005. Two years later, the couple moved to their home on NW Sheltered Nook Road in January 2007.
Despite the DUI, Mr. Horman nonetheless went on to marry Ms. Horman on April 15, 2007. Ms. Horman gave birth to Kiara on November 12, 2008.
In a prior interview with KGW, Mr. Horman called Ms. Horman “a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did. Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now.”
Mr. Horman told KGW that he was blindsided by Kyron’s disappearance: “There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen. She recently got her teaching license re-instated and has been applying for teaching positions so even the state of Oregon didn’t see this coming.”
The person described in Mr. Horman’s October 25 court papers is not someone who could be described as hidden danger. If believed, Mr. Horman’s most recent statement outline a terrifying picture of a five-year pattern of child abuse and endangerment. Mr. Horman could not possibly be telling the truth in both of his interview with KGW and in his more recent court papers.
Also in the October 25 filing, Mr. Horman claims that he has always been the primary care giver to both Kiara and Kyron and describes Ms. Horman as frequently absent from their home, apparently leaving him with both children.
In a July 28, 2010, Oregonian article, Mr. Horman claimed Kiara was a much different child now that Ms. Horman was gone. He claimed Kiara did not ask about her mom. “‘She’s a new kid,’ he said. ‘She’s whole new kid now.’”
In a separate article, Mr. Horman discussed Ms. Horman’s excessive involvement in Kyron’s schooling and adamant enforcement of discipline. “He [Mr. Horman] said when Kyron brought home anything but a green card [indicating good behavior at school] she [Ms. Horman] wanted Kaine to discipline him by grounding him to his room for the evening.”
Mr. Horman also asserts in his October 25 court papers that Ms. Horman would put Kiara in the gym day care for “hours at a time,” and further claimed that Ms. Horman “spent more time on the computer than caring for the children.” If Mr. Horman was home and providing primary care for the children, then how would Kiara have ended up in day care for “hours at at time”? How would the children have remained unattended while Ms. Horman was updating her Facebook page?
Mr. Horman’s other narrative seems to indicate that Mr. Horman was not present in the home during the day, leaving Ms. Horman to care for the children. It also contradicts Mr. Horman’s escalating accusations that Ms. Horman was absent from the home, uninvolved, and not involved with the care of Kyron and Kiara.
Mr. Horman also claims in his pleadings that Ms. Horman’s son James lived with them until Feb 5, 2010, when he moved because Ms. Horman “was unable to interact with James on a healthy level and had him move to her parents’ home in Roseburg.”
Mr. Horman also claimed he was unaware of any landscaper, a detail which contradicts his most recent work-from-home story: “No, I did not know we had a landscaper and have never met him.” If he was at home, surely he would have known about a landscaper.
On July 8, 2010, Mr. Horman told the Oregonian that Ms. Horman began having problems with postpartum depression in November 2008.
“‘I thought the marriage was doing pretty well,’ Kaine Horman said during a one-on-one interview with The Oregonian, ‘until we had our daughter, Kiara.’ Horman said he thought his marriage to Terri Moulton Horman fractured within six months after she gave birth in November 2008, the result of postpartum depression.Terri Horman was put on medication for the depression, and her doctor told Kaine to keep an eye on her to make sure she was OK, he said. But she wasn’t OK.
If Mr. Horman thought Ms. Horman was a chronic danger to her children and Mr. Horman’s son,why did he not mention it prior to October 25, 2010? Could it be that Mr. Horman’s entire series of pleadings are designed to push Ms. Horman with ever-increasing allegations to the point where she has no choice but to respond?
There are other clues that Mr. Horman’s latest version of events is not entirely accurate. According to more recent news stories, James is again living with his mother. Strange, considering Mr. Horman’s claims that James changed high schools mid-semester and moved hundreds of miles because of Ms. Horman’s behavior.
There are also hints concerning law enforcement’s interest in the Horman dissolution. A June 6, 2010, letter from Norm W. Frink, chief deputy district attorney for Multnomah County, rescinded his statement that un sealing the restraining order would undermine the “ongoing criminal investigation.” If Ms. Horman was the target of the investigation, what purpose would be served by sealing court documents that were to be served upon Ms. Horman? The only other person identified in the pleadings was an unnamed landscaper alleged to have been contacted by Ms. Horman.
As we now know, the landscaper was involved in what has been characterized as a botched sting operation against Ms. Horman. As such, the only person protected by the the seal was Ms. Horman to the extent that the seal prevented the allegations from being disseminated publicly. Or could it be that law enforcement was concerned about accuracy of the information provided by the landscaper?
Law enforcement conducted its sting operation over open channels that were accessible to anyone listening on police channels. Was this an oversight, or was it a convenient way to ensure the information was released “unintentionally”?
If there was any blame for promoting a bogus murder for hire plot, law enforcement could point to Ms. Horman as bringing upon her own misery. She chose to disclose the documents, and as a result, the information was disseminated because of her actions in violating a court order, not law enforcement’s efforts to run out a possible lead, even if later proven false.
We don’t know what role Michael Cook played in the disclosure of the now-public restraining order. The texts between he and Ms. Horman seems to indicate Mr. Cook was not so much interested in sexual banter as much as he was in gathering information for Mr. Horman
The roles of Mr. Cook and the landscaper are highly relevant to evidentiary issues. If the landscaper was a confidential informant, the information he reported that was used as basis for the restraining order could not then be considered an admission against interest. Same thing applies to Mr. Cook.
Mr. Cook in particular seems not to be acting out of concern for Kyron. Who the hell smirks at a vigil for a missing child?)
Reading Mr. Cook’s texts to Terri, there’s a tone that suggests that someone was sitting right next to him, telling him what to type. If true, the question becomes who is that someone guiding Mr. Cook’s actions?
The sexting is weird, but it is hardly ground breaking. The courts have heard such allegations many times before, and without a doubt, the court has seen far worse. That is not to see the court is going to like the texts. Rather, the judge here is going to look at the pleadings with a critical eye for issues that affect parenting time.
Mr. Horman does not offer any evidence that Ms. Horman ever sexted when she should have been parenting. To the contrary Ms. Horman’s lawyers can point to Mr. Horman’s other statements as evidence that Ms. Horman was the primary care giver for James, Kyron, and Kiara. Her extensive collection of family photographs on her Facebook page support this assertion.
Mr. Horman cannot credibly claim that Ms. Horman was a threat to the children, considering that he often left the kids in her care. Mr. Horman did not have any concerns about Ms. Horman’s sobriety and fitness to care for the children the morning Kryon disappeared from school, as he left Kiara in her care and allowed her to take Kyron to school.
If she was a drunk and mean spirited, would Mr. Horman have have allowed Ms. Horman to have access to Kyron’s school records, and to become involved in his discipline? Ms. Horman was a step parent to Kyron. She had no rights except to that which Mr. Horman granted in signed consent forms required by Kyron’s school.
The text messages are racy, but they do not indicate any homicidal tendencies or ill will toward anyone. Nothing in the texts is homicidal by any stretch.
Mr. Horman’s source for his allegations poses a huge problem here. He cites to “law enforcement” as telling him Ms. Horman tried to hire a hit-man, and as to other issues. Not one of these allegations is admissible under any exception to hearsay. The fact that Mr. Horman does not identify the source is a problem in itself. This information might as well be graffiti on the wall of the public bathroom at the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office.
Were Mr. Horman to say that he read an allegation on the a bathroom wall at the MCSO would at least give it some sort of context that would suggest credibility. Mr. Horman’s vague claim makes it impossible to identify which law enforcement office among thousands in the United States might have conveyed such information. Without further identification, the reader cannot tell if the “source” was in a position to have any such knowledge in the first place.
The hearsay allegations offered by Mr. Horman allege child abuse and domestic violence. Under the Confrontation Clause, Ms. Horman has a right to confront her accusers. Ms. Horman does not need to speak in order for her lawyers to cross examine the sources of these allegations.
“..Mr. Horman claims that judges believe there is sufficient information to implicate Ms. Horman in Kyron’s disappearance. This begs the question: How is it that Mr. Horman is getting this information?”
It seems likely that Mr. Horman is referring to search warrants, which require reliable information that the item sought can be found at that location. If Mr. Horman was in fact referring to search warrants, it would be very interesting to find out who provided the information for the searches and what exactly was law enforcement looking for?
If Mr. Horman was the informant, it raises questions as to motive because Mr. Horman wants custody of Kiara. If the landscaper was the affiant, his personal motive for revenge becomes an issue, if it true that Ms. Horman had law enforcement go to his house and expose his extramarital affair in front of his family.
What law enforcement was seeking matters. Ms. Horman’s specialty was in teaching children with learning disabilities. She would have had access to confidential psychological testing, mental health records, medical documents, and possibly, CPS records, none of which could be disclosed except by parent authorization, or pursuant to subpoena or search warrant. Even though she had not worked in that area for some time, she may still have had such records in her home or on her laptop.
If Ms. Horman had such documents or data on her laptop or among her personal papers, she could not turn it over except by subpoena. As such, the mere presence of a search warrant does not mean Ms. Horman is guilty of anything.
..”Mr. Horman’s threat to conduct extensive depositions seems a clear warning to Ms. Horman that he intends to call Ms. Horman’s friends to deposition, put them under oath, and ask them questions. Lots of questions. If Mr. Horman’s pleadings are any sort of a hint, he is not going to make people feel good about befriending Ms. Horman…”
Peter Bunch’s statements at the prior court hearing referencing a December 26 call to 9-1-1 also suggests that maybe something happened the day after Christmas 2009. The implication is that Mr. Bunch intends to discuss that December 26 9-1-1 call in more detail. Don’t expect Mr. Horman to like any of it.
Discovery procedures allow Mr. Horman to get at any information reasonably calculated to lead to discovery of admissible evidence. This does not mean the information specifically sought must be admissible, only that it could reasonably lead to evidence that would be admissible. By that definition, Mr, Horman could justify deposing a great many people in Ms. Horman’s life.
Peter Bunch’s statements at the prior court hearing referencing a December 26 call to 9-1-1 also suggests that maybe something happened the day after Christmas 2009.
Clearly, each of these people has reason to avoid going back to court.
The most confusing aspect of this case is the fact that the restraining order and dissolution were consolidated months ago. Ms. Horman’s attorney notes this in his July 12, 2010, letter to the court.
Given that there is an abatement order in place, how is it that Ms. Horman can go forward with her request for parenting time under the restraining order matter? You would think that Ms. Rackner would have noted this information to the court. But she didn’t. Yet another strange footnote in a even stranger case.
Law enforcement likes to push the weakest link. Ms. Horman seems to be that link. What information does law enforcement hope to gain? Who is law enforcement’s ultimate target?
..”If not Ms. Horman exclusively, or Ms. Horman in any capacity, then who exactly does law enforcement hope to catch by pushing Ms. Horman until she finally breaks?”
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This is taken from TH’s most recent motion.
“Father and his lawyer gratuitously included 17 pages of deeply personal text message exchanges between Mother and a mutual friend of Mother and Father. The subject matter of texts is plainly adult in nature.”
TH could have denied that those texts came from her. Since she didn’t, it seems that she is admitting it.
Are we going to learn anytime soon about the new details?
Just curious.
@Madilu
“TH won’t put herself on the stand in order to see baby.”
That seems like kinda sorta a big deal to me.
***
@Graceinthehills, may I hire you, sharp one?
Per Lea’s comments: Just a thought, Could it be Kaine who unwittingly let the vampires in? And TH’s unbalenced, vindictive, implusive, responses her claim to blame.
Madilu says:
November 2, 2010 at 3:07 am
You have it exactly right, she has not answered “his” questions. Note: she does not have to answer “his” questions regarding the investigation, she has to answer LE’s questions. She denied any involvement to LE.
It is really not funny and I am not trying to make light of the situation but as I was reading your post I Laughed out loud when I came to -I repeat: TH is a liar, and she has an expensive lawyer and she call shim “lawyer extraordinaire!”
You can tell that her calling Houze “lawyer extraordinaire!” really bothered him. This man is easily provoked, we experienced it with him throwing the two newspapers out of a presser early in the investigation. I still am not sure why he did that.
justice4kyron says:
MiaBella,
Yes, they are, under super-security.
Prayers for Kyron.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for answering! Do you know how much longer this session will last? I have heard that they only set in session for 6 weeks at a time, is this true?
Prayers for Kyron
It appears that my fellow sleuthers are looking for other rabbit holes to scurry down … and I’m right behind you!!
@Idahogal
@riverpearl
No only sexting w/ a short-term NEW acquaintance but also, w/ “RS/LS” ?
Is release of sexts to push the “third” person to reveal themselves, to come forward ?
~~~
If I’m getting this right .. my monkey mind is “hearing” you both suggest that the unknown 3rd person of interest is a recipient of TH’s sext/text and is known to her. “That’s” the big secret she’s still holding onto, eh?? So, MC was bait being used by LE to engage with TH .. knowing her MO .. to flush out some other possible POI??
Do we all agree that TH and her sexting are the cause of Ky’s abduction? .. intentional or not ..
@SoCalGal
Welcome. I’m sooo glad you are posting on this board. I’ve missed you at OL. I hope you stick around…I value your insight.
justice4kyron says:
November 2, 2010 at 3:40 am
1.MiaBella says:
October 31, 2010 at 9:15
Are they still meeting?
MiaBella,
Yes, they are, under super-security.
Prayers for Kyron.
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
Thank You “Justice4Kyron” for a straightforward answer to a reasonable question.
Much appreciated.
So much tip-toeing around here with mysterious innuendo and cryptic wording – it’s quite refreshing to read an clearly stated question and actually receive a clearly stated answer.
**and**
Thank You also to “Skylineparent” for your personal observations concerning the Skyline community and TH.
Riverpearl,
Interesting take on the “sexts” and possible 3rd person.
I am gong crazy already….
We are working on it, thanks for your patience.
B
Lea said, “Going back to my earlier comments, there are things that we have been told that are not true. If you knew the facts I’m talking about, it might just change your mind about a great deal of what you believe about this case.”
~~~
Finally … someone .. other than our anonymous unknown selves .. is telling us to look at this differently. Setting TH & Company aside … we attempted to search out RS & Associates and while I think we uncovered some really good stuff .. just not enough .. we still ended up at a dead end.
We know there’s a unknown 3rd person … Idahogal and riverpearl have done a good job of starting that line of thinking.
I’m wondering if the TH/MC texting was another LE attempt to elicit incriminating evidence re: TH.
Reread the original from Lea Conner:
“Reading Mr. Cook’s texts to Terri, there’s a tone that suggests that someone was sitting right next to him, telling him what to type. If true, the question becomes who is that someone guiding Mr. Cook’s actions?”
Okay so you’re saying??? It wasn’t KH who got MC to do this it was LE and they were right there telling him what to say. That part about not lying just didn’t fit.
But then how would KH get hold of it? If they were completely behind this would they have passed it on to KH?
Hmm. So TH has confidential student information… the sexts aren’t what they seem and if we knew the truth would change what we believe…
I got it! TH thought her sext messages to MC were going to be auctioned off with the proceeds going to a developmentally disabled student hand picked by TH based on confidential school performance records!
Regarding TH’s answer to KH’s latest: Personally, I would waive my constitutional rights in a heartbeat in order to be with my children. I can’t fathom a secret I would keep that prevented me from being with them. I shudder at the thought – how can she do this? Doesn’t she understand what kind of freedom she’ll have if she exposes the truth to the light of day? Is her kind of self preservation normal?
@SoCalGal: Interesting analysis of the legal strategy.
If you don’t mind my asking, do you post at GLP under a similar name?
I would just like to see some real witness step up and say they saw
something Anything
and for years men have drank and passed out while mommy takes
care of the kids
and DeDe could have done the sexting
LOL I keep thinking Prove it
most of all where is Kyron
I think he is alive
@GraceintheHills & SOCalGal: I’m with you.
I’ll wait impatiently for the facts that will change much of what I think about this case.
Re: THs education-IIRC, her education claims were shot down months ago (Andy, I think, provided much information?). TH even misspelled Prader Willi syndrome and the acronyms were FUBAR.
“Very early in the case, someone connected to LE told me (and that was the last thing I heard from him) that when the parents who were frequent volunteers were asked about her, they said “Who?” – and didn’t seem to know who she was. Hard to get references that way.” – Exactly. Again, I say that none of this makes her guilty, but the perception that she was some supermom that was at the school all the time and was trusted above the other volunteers is just WRONG. She was nothing more than a classroom volunteer at Skyline. Probably on the low end of the scale for time spent at the school, although that wouldn’t be unusual for someone who had a toddler at home.
As for Kaine – I would be suprised if more than 2 people from the community could have picked him out of a line-up before he wound up on the news. He just wasn’t involved at all.
And Steffi – great post, seriously.
I AM trying to be fair (although I’ll make absolutely no claims to objectivity). I certainly don’t know enough to convict Terri beyond a reasonable doubt, but when I see stuff I know is inaccurate, I have trouble not saying something.
@Riverpearl: I have just gone back to reread your suggestions/assertions/opinions and find myself going….wow…just wow!
You sure have raised an eyebrow for me.
Without throwing about any names, it is possible that Ky left the area in a moving van? There is a Portland moving and storage company that recently opened a location in Mexico City. The owner is an a/k/a that can be linked by association to a company with a known child pornographer.
PLEASE DO NOT POST IF IRRELEVANT OR UNDER DEVELOPED IN REGARDS TO KYRON.
Lea Conner stated, “Let’s just say the texts are not what you think.” (11-01 @ 9:17pm)
Maybe MC PAID for those texts.
Maybe KH had MC’s phone.
Maybe LE had MC’s phone. (entrapment?)
I would like to rant for a moment if I could. I have been very frustrated with Kaine for a long time. In particular his message to everyone, if they have the slightest bit of information, however unimportant/insignificant it might seem, to call the tip line. That info could be the tidbit needed to finding Kyron. I want to know, how he can ask strangers, if he is not willing to do that himself. That makes me really pissed off. Hello Kaine, what about James? Why has he not sat down with that young man and asked him what went on in that house when he was not there? Who came over? Who called? Did Kyron ever confide in him? And so on and so on. I my own opinion, I think James was starting to see/catch on to something or maybe Terri was afraid for his safety and that is why he was moved. I also believe with all my heart, James has no knowledge (that he is aware of) of Kyron’s disappearance. I think that Kaine could not be bothered in speaking to James because he is Terri’s son. I would like to point out that he is Kyron’s brother. DNA does not decide a family, people do. I see BROTHERS that enjoy & love each other. I will speak from my own personal experience, when you have one sibling that you feel/know is being abused/neglected etc. by a parent as a brother/sister you WILL jump in and assist the sibling in any way you can to correct/stop/prevent. You will go against the parent. I have never met James (or anyone involved) but I do believe he would answer any & all questions truthfully to assist in finding his brother. Kaine has everything to gain & nothing to lose. Why has he not done this???
Also, I read in Kyron’s earlier years Terri was the one that figured out he needed glasses, taught him sign language and so on. When did her caring stop? In particular I read that he did not like water and was enrolled in swimming lessons. I remember seeing a picture of Kyron in the water that had been posted on the gyms? website. He did not have on a pair of corrective optical swim goggles. They are just like the cheap reading glasses you can get in a pharmacy only SG for water. These goggles are cheap $$$ and a god send to those of us who have children w/severe sight problems. No wonder why he did not like the water; he might as well have been blindfolded. Thank you for letting me rant. MOO!!!!
@SoCalGal….. Not that it matters but did u used to post on OL?
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers and sister.
To all – no secrets with me, none, nada, zippo. It think that Riverpearl and Erose and I have all been sleuthing around some of the same places a bit, I personally haven’t found out anything earth shattering, sigh. Like I said before, grasping at straws in my desperation to have an “Aha” moment. I hope some of you are faring better than I. I don’t know who brought the vampires in, maybe they both knew someone and didn’t realize what type of person it was? IDK, I’m still holding a tiny thread of hope for Kyron, call me crazy.
@Madilu- Loved your post, made me laugh but I totally get it, too.
@Skylineparent- Thanks for of your help and insight, you are a gem.
@Mockingbird- Thanks for all the info. and thoughts as always.
@Justice4kyron- Thanks for the answer about the GJ.
@Mother Hen- LOL, sit on that egg just a wee longer, I think Blink will be posting soon, as least I hope so!
AOL.com has released letters written in jail by Elisa Baker where she basically admits that Zahra is dead but doesn’t admit killing her “really”. She goes on to say that Zahra’s dad, Adam Baker, did something “kinda horrifying” after the fact. She says that, if she hadn’t admitted to writing that ransom note, she’d be out of jail now. She is planning to divorce Adam because what he did scares her. She says her life is over and she’s going to have to move far away because everyone wants to kill her.
She then asks if people would be so interested in Zahra’s fate if she hadn’t been a cancer survivor and from Australia. “There’s so many missing kids, but Zahra isn’t missing.” (is this a taunt as in, “see if you can find her”)
What I have learned from this site, Seamus O’Riley and others is how different criminals think from the rest of us. How profoundly self-centered they are, almost like spoiled children. Elisa Baker is unable to comprehend why Zahra’s life of suffering and bravery would touch people reading her story. She seems to think that missing children are no big deal except that this one has caused a big brouhaha simply because she’s Australian and survived cancer…big deal. She focuses primarly on herself and the fact that she has “lost her life.” In the face of a little girl’s death, she has the audacity to say that SHE has lost her life…amazing. There is no shred of empathy or sadness for what this little girl went through or the fact that more suffering was heaped senslessly on a helpless child who had already suffered more than most adults ever will.
It should be of primary importance to society to study the environments of people like Elisa Baker, Terri Horman, Casey Anthony, et al. to try to find out what forces create people like this. The information should then be made available to all new parents, schools and everyone involved in the raising of children.
In my own opinion, Kaine does have an agenda. To find his boy and protect his little girl.
Terri’s divorce attorney requested 9-11 calls from Dec. 26. I do not think Kaine or especially his attorney are stupid. Maybe not as smart as Houze…but certainly not stupid. Kaine knows that this can open up mud slinging with him as the target. But it doesn’t seem as important to him to cover his own butt or worry about what people will say as it is to find his boy and protect his baby.
Kaine seemed to hold back on what he said about Terri and it progressively got worse. I don’t think mud slinging via the media is what he wanted. He is just trying to get Terri to open up and for some reasons we don’t know, he is certain she knows something.
I am surprised about the 3rd party/sexting view and it is a possibility just as the “Terry are you pregnant” theory is. Really makes me think in all different directions. But all in all it seems to me that the most likely possibility is that TERRY DID IT and pointing at Rudy (who undoubtedly is related to or friends with vampires), dragging in DeeDee, M.C. and whoever….was all to cover her own butt. Was there a 3rd party???Could be. But just as easily she did it and later used these others in her effort to cover what she did. Can’t be done? It has. Over and over and over again. Again…this is all my own opinion.
Most of all….I want Kyron found. I pray that he is alive and well but if he is in Gods arms then we need to know that too.
Love and prayers for Kyron, his brothers, his sister and all of us that love him.
“who exactly does law enforcement hope to catch by pushing Ms. Horman until she finally breaks?”
Getting back to this important question. I don’t think it could be RS because, according to Blink, TH is privately already pointing to RS. So she doesn’t need to be broken for that.
I’m still going on the long shot bet that it’s someone from the Navy.
So is everyone hinting that LE set up TH with those sexts? Still wouldn’t matter to me based her response to it. Now if you tell me it wasn’t her sending the messages back, that would change my line of thinking but then why didn’t Bunch scream that to the rooftops in his response? He didn’t deny anything at all about the texts. Only that they were unfair to release in public.
Here’s your long-awaited update:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/#more-4753
@Malty says:
November 2, 2010 at 2:00 pm
I would just like to see some real witness step up and say they saw
something Anything
and for years men have drank and passed out while mommy takes
care of the kids
**********************************************
-Yep! I have seen this over and over and over again. And if it comes to morals, I don’t recall anyone, for example, trying to take parental rights for Chelsea from Bill Clinton when he “did not have relations with that woman” -truly a MUCH bigger deal, specifically relating to the sexting here (and not missing Ky). I really do feel that still in this world, there is truly a double standard, at least in the court of public opinion.
i feel that teri had no other alternative. Sorry, i may get banned from this site….but i have never seen a hatchet job like this. If they had a “legitimate” murder for hire, they would have arrested her. It makes me think that there are very inept officers, or parents allowed to spill their words, without confirmation.
If i were teri, i would keep quiet, and get money. I have taken care of your children, not like zahra bakers stepmom. i have taken you to school, worried about you at school, maybe been too zealous. I see no guiltiness. It’s not like Teri is making Kyron run up hills to get a bike.
If KH or LE, or anyone, tried to set Terri up with the texts to find some lead on Kyron, I get that. It might screw up the investigation, but I get it.
My questions for this situation, with the phone belonging to KH and not to MC:
1. Did KH set TH up for the sexting to get info on Kyron? Did LE suggest he do so? Why sexting? The hint here is that KH would know that TH would sext and would leap at the chance to do so.
2. Meaning KH is very sure that TH will take the bait, and if that’s the case, why have the respondent to TH’s sexting (whether him or MC or LE on the othe rend) be so passive with responses? If this was a sting to get a lead out of TH, the person on the other end did a really, really lousy job of prying info out of her.
3. Did KH set Terri up for the sexting only to try to get info so that he could prevent visitation with Kiara?
4. In Oregon, do custody and visitation decisions occur based on “mother is a drunken slut who sexts when her child is not with her?”
I’m so frustrated by this latest development. It reminds me of my belief that LE is trying to use Family Law and an ugly divorce to replace their criminal investigation.
Is this the “surprise” the Sheriff was talking about? I’m not surprised! I am disappointed. I sense from this news that KH might not be a fan at all of the LE process in his son’s disappearance, and that his divorce attorney has been too quick to work “out of scope.”
32.NelMel says:
Is this the “surprise” the Sheriff was talking about? I’m not surprised! I am disappointed. I sense from this news that KH might not be a fan at all of the LE process in his son’s disappearance, and that his divorce attorney has been too quick to work “out of scope.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Love reading your thoughtful posts, NelMel. No, I do not think this is the surprise the sheriff was talking about. This is a darn soap opera, nothing surprising about that…of course, I am referring to the civil case, not the criminal investigation into Kyron’s disappearance.
I’m confused So KH/MC wast actually sent text/sexting to TH from her phone which was owned by KH?.
I take it then that when LE returned TH’s phone they returned it to KH because he was the owner of the account/phone. So KH/MC decided to get some info from TH by luring her into a sext/text conversation with them on the other end using her phone?.
1. How did KH/MC know the number of TH’s clear phone in order to get the conversation started. I doubt that TH would have started up a texting conversation with her own phone.
2. When i receive a text from someone it usually identifies the call as someone on my contact list, or displays the number. Didn’t TH notice that the messages from MC were coming from own her phone?
Why would KH even do such a thing it didn’t look like he ask TH any questions about the whereabouts of KY. (but then I haven’t read all of the texts).
If he was involved in the sexting/texting why would he/his attorney include such flimsy evidence in their legal brief. They must have known that it would eventually be revealed that MC’s texting came from a phone owned by KH , or maybe not. I’m so confused.
Just on the news here~! Terri has withdrawn her petition for visitation with Kiara ? Now, What’s up ?
Terri Moulton Horman’s attorneys have suddenly withdrawn their motion seeking parenting time for their client with her daughter after her estranged husband’s lawyer informed them that they would face extensive discovery, “multiple depositions” and subpoenas for their client’s medical records.
“Respondent’s decision to defer this matter is in no way an agreement to maintain the status quo with Kiara,” wrote Peter Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney, in a motion filed Tuesday. “Respondent wishes only to act in Kiara’s best interest. Respondent does not, and will not, give up her right to seek legal custody and unfettered contact with Kiara. Petitioner’s efforts to withhold all parenting time is completely contrary to Kiara’s healthy development. However, under all of the circumstances, issues regarding parenting time will need to wait for another day, when additional facts can be obtained and presented.”
This is part of the content~
*****Taken Oregon live News Alert: Go to News Alert Nov, 3,2010 Oregon Live
This was on 12:00 news here, Nov 3rd~ I am 3 hrs behind time shown on my post
Terri withdrew her motion for parenting time to avoid being deposed.
Here’s a link to the Oregonian’s report in the saga:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/terri_moulton_horman_withdraws.html
Private to Blink regarding #12 GraceintheHills says:
November 1, 2010 at 10:36 pm I did not realize you worked in forensics, that is such an important field in this work. Congrads and thank you.
The word isn’t “congrads” but “congrats” as in congratulations.
Pardon the Foe Paw.
B
nate0419 says:
November 2, 2010 at 3:03 pm
I can not imagine what James is going through and don’t know if he can tell us anything that would clarify regarding Kyron. I think the adults in his life has failed him.
In Kaines motion, we get a peek into Kaines contradictions. KH said they had a good relationship. And we hear through third parties that TH expressed that KH and james did not get along.
Page 5 line 15-17
During our marriage, I worked at home on average three to five days a week. I would be home and present with “BOTH” children most afternoons and evenings unless traveling for business.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/a/4/6/a466434a-e631-4fef-96c5-8162118cb371/petition.pdf
_____________________
When recalling past experiences with your family, you would recall “healthy involvement” with your children watching t.v. dinner, playing a game,homework and would recall three children, not two.
the sad part of this whole case is, if Terri didn’t have something to do with Kyron missing, and Kaine had nothing to do with it..Then Kyron was kidnapped by somebody who came into the school and was trusted to be around children, and will continue to be trusted around children..LE dropped the ball if Terri is innocent of Kyron’s disappearance, and a pedophile is on the loose, to enter the school again..
39.brainfreze says:
November 3, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Private to Blink regarding #12 GraceintheHills says:
November 1, 2010 at 10:36 pm I did not realize you worked in forensics, that is such an important field in this work. Congrads and thank you.
The word isn’t “congrads” but “congrats” as in congratulations.
Pardon the Foe Paw.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LOL, Blink! You are so welcome, and thank YOU for having such a wonderful forum!
41.Spidey says:
November 4, 2010 at 2:04 am
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree, Spidey. That is a very scary thought.
Two Shay–sorry, lost all impulse control when I read Foe Paw!
What about Terri dropping “parenting visit request” today? Or did I miss something?
OK. Now anyone with doubts about Terri shouldn’t have them now. ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS.
(I accidentally posted this on the wrong Kyron thread- It is hard to differentiate which one you are posting on, unless you double check…)
Mom3.0 says:
November 3, 2010 at 9:35 pm
I took the time to reread this article.
Lea, again thank you for your astute analysis in this article-
You wrote in part:
“Which is it? Was Ms. Horman a mean drunk who drank herself to sleep, or was she self-absorbed and social, staying up to all hours playing on the Internet while her child sat in the same room unattended and un-engaged? Or was she a social butterfly who spent most of her time outside the home while Mr. Horman was super dad, working long hours from home, caring for the children, and providing an income that he never could enjoy because Ms. Horman was spending it all? The claims are so disjointed, it is as though Mr. Horman decided to throw spaghetti at the wall, just to see what might stick.”
—
Respectfully, I think it can be both. Terri could be both a likable flirtatious, social butterfly, and she could be a raging mean drunk. There is such a thing as a closeted drunk. There is such a thing as a functioning alcoholic. There are alcoholics that do not subscribe to one mood while drinking- they can swing from happy go lucky, lovable drinkers, to mean slobbering, abusive, depressed, incoherent messes.
Also, often times the alcoholic can have an addictive personality. Meaning, when they are not drinking, or sometimes while, they will substitute/add to their addictions. They may shop alot, gamble, they may work out alot, they may be workaholics at their jobs ect ect.
Also, some alcoholics rely on their family and loved ones/spouses to cover up/clean up for them. They enable them to be the best well- hidden drinkers. There is a good movie, – “When A Man Loves A Woman”, that I think touches upon some of these issues. Here is the link to the trailer:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111693/
It can be a viscous cycle it is a disease. One that effects everyone. When an alcoholic gets treatment, it is best that the whole family gets treatment also. Just my two cents, I hope it offers another perspective.
—–
Adding this-
”Ms. Horman told Mr. Cook, “I was really upset that Kaine has Kitty but doesn’t know what her favorite toy or blanket is.”
-Terri Horman
Lea you wrote:
“A parent who does not care about her daughter would not waste a single moment worrying about her child having her favorite toy or blanket. The allegation that Mr. Horman did not know such basic information about his daughter provides motive for Mr. Horman to attempt to discredit Ms. Horman’s words as insincere. Otherwise, Ms. Horman’s words are truthful and reflect her historical relationship as primary care giver to both children.”
Again Respectfully, IMO Terri making an offhanded remark about being upset because Kaine doesn’t know what Kitty favorite toy and blanket is, to me , Terri could be pointing out her superiority to Kaine, not in a worrying way for Kitty but in a that idiot knows nothing kind of way…
Also, as a parent of several children, as an older sibling, and as a one time preschool teacher, babysitter, ect in my experience, a small child, such as Kitty, doesn’t necessarily have one favorite blanket or toy, and if they do, it is often times the actual favorite of the parent or caregiver- (the one they choose to give to the child)
In my experience again, it is all in the eyes of the beholder. It bares no real light on whether or not Terri is truthful or whether or not Kaine is, in regards to who was the primary caregiver. And I do not see where Kaine’s supposed not knowing Kitty’s favorite’s would “supply motive for Mr. Horman to attempt to discredit Ms. Horman’s words as insincere. Otherwise, Ms. Horman’s words are truthful and reflect her historical relationship as primary care giver to both children.”
Thanks for reading my perspective, and I would just like to point out for the record- I do not know if any of this has any bearing on what happened to Kyron, but I felt I should point out another way of looking at things that does not necessarily = lying.
10/12/2010
Kaine:
“I wanted to thank all of the Search and Rescue crews out on the search again the past two weekends and the days in between. We can’t thank you all enough, you are amazing. Our thoughts are with you all as work on Sauvie Island continues until closure; we hope for clues and/or information that can help solve the mystery of Sauvie Island on June 4th and aid in bringing Kyron home as quickly as possible!!”
http://bringkyronhome.org/findkyron/Default.html
“days in between”, “work on Sauvie Island continues until closure”,
wait… what?
OK…I am confused. Some posters earlier said there were reports of a red mustang 6/4 driving erratically on SI—heard that as well from a friend who lives there, works nearby, and was making a delivery when they saw the car and figured it was a high school kid skipping school—but made a mental note of the vanity plate—then, when making a delivery a few days later to the Horman residence,had to ask to have the car moved they realized it was the same red mustang–Here is my confusion: if KH had the car (TMH supposedly had the truck)–How does this fit any timeline–was he in on some warning? Was James old enough for a learners permit? Just my tired quandaries…As always, praying for Ky’s return.
I’ve been reading all the posts and being a teacher myself in Michigan, a few thought crossed my mind. I read TH’s resume of sorts on her business site. I thought it was very amateurish and had word usage errors that you should never have on a resume. Especially being a Reading Specialist. I actually started a Masters program in that, some years ago. (I have a Masters and Ed. Specialist in Multicultural Studies.)The mention of Special Educationteaching was clearly TH trying to fill out her resume with info that she seems to have felt carried some wait. Most substitutes do work in special Ed. classes as well as all sorts of classes. When I read it, I chuckled to myself and said soooo? meaning I didn’t see much substance there except the run of the mill…
Also about the confidential student info.- It could be that as a long term sub, the teacher or school may have given her access to the attendance progam. Our district does not allow that because it does contain all the demographic info on a student but different districts different policies…or the teacher may have trusted her enough ORRR she got into the program as a parent or hacked it. I have seen some of our subs get on our computers and they are not supposed to I dont know how they get a password- some ask students to log on ….. just saying there are many ways to do this if she wanted to seem important or to use the info in some way.