Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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sorry, but this is my theory as well …
from true nelson’s blog
…”My theory is that more than one person was involved in Kyron’s disappearance. I also believe that he was transported out of the area by a person or persons unknown. It is additionally conceivable that he was taken out of the country, perhaps somewhere beyond our southern border.”
@ 32. DReader. How do you relate this to Kyron’s case?
IMO the med records of TMH might chronicle a life of medicating an inherited learning/ behavior disability, one she’s attempted to mask with possessions, education, men, and booze/drugs. It might be telling, too, should the medical records of Ky be researched. I’ve never been a step mom, but IMO can’t imagine allowing another person–no matter the connection if not a bio parent— to manage medical care of a child independently w/out discussion/knowledge of bio parent. But maybe that’s just me and my ignorance of what happens in step families. Someone would be in NEED of a DR if they had ever taken my boys to a DR w/out my knowledge/consent! Kat-fight!
My resolution: Praying for a GIANT BREAK in this case that resolves the questions: Where’s Kyron? Who did this? Justice for Ky and all those classmates who will live with this memory of a classmate’s disappearance.
Speculation is the only thing many of us can do concerning Kyron’s situation, until LE and others make public announcements on the case’s status. Until that happens, I only have a few musings here and there.
The idea that TH through Houze and Bunch will not be subjected to “discovery” as pitched by KH’s divorce lawyer, thus the withdraw of TH’s request to see her daughter, makes perfect sense to me. It does not tell me that she does not care enough about her own child to see the child. It tells me that a legal strategy is in place to prevent hysterical reactions to any personal information forthcoming in that discovery. In a way, this is one form of protecting a child. Some might view this as TH being more concerned with her personal freedom than seeing her own baby girl. I suggest there are many other (good)reasons to not engage in “discovery” in a custody case that is linked to the kidnapping of another child in the home.
So TH has skeletons in her closet. Lots. I’ll add that I think KH does too. Lots. And, those dark blotches in their personal lives have absolutely nothing to do with Kyron’s disappearance. This is my speculation: their personal lives were filled with trauma that is associated with, but not directly responsible for, Kyron’s fate.
Do some couples engage in risky sexual adventures? Yes. In most cases adult sexual fetishes never cause or even relate to a child abduction.
Do some couples have foul relationships marred by emotional abuse? Yep. If one spouse plays head games with the other spouse, no news there. Again, does that cause a child kidnapping? In most households, no.
Does TH want to hide her skandy behavior? Well, duh, sure, if it’s true that all the rumors about her are correct. The sexting she did with MC is not a rumor. So that indicates she did that regularly IMO. Sexting most of the time never results in a kidnapped or murdered child.
Does TH through her attorneys believe that a release of medical records (both TH’s and KH’s, let’s speculate) would reveal mental health treatment, drug detox, spousal abuse, STDs via affairs, refusal to take medications, etc? Perhaps. How does any of that affect the children in the home? Does it affect the children at all? How?
A legal issue here is taking the awfulness of TH or KH’s personal habits and the ick factors in their relationship, and applying it to Kyron’s abduction from school on June 4.
Has TH done something she is mortifyingly ashamed of, that she cannot bear to have revealed to the media, that will immediately brand her by the public and by LE as a child killer? How? What is that information?
Better yet, whatever that information is that she wishes through her attorneys, or via her attorney’s instructions, IS IT THAT BAD?
Could someone please post the pic of Mystery Man that you don’t have to go through Facebook? I don’t “do” FB, and the only pic I bring up doesn’t show as much of MM as Jan described.
Thank you.
evie says: December 29, 2010 at 7:47 pm
“@ Lea: What is your concern about the retelling of the bus incident? It’s clear it bothers you, but I can’t understand exactly why.
When people retell a story several times, the details frequently change. These were not official interviews.. it was Oprah! I’m late posting this, but see that someone else has stiched it together as virtually the same story. What specifically bothers you?”
I’m not sure “concern” is the right word. On one level, the evolution of the bus stop story annoys me because it shows how stories are twisted and outright misrepresented in order to gain an upper hand in a divorce, and especially where child custody is involved. The changes in the story are especially important given that Mr. Horman alleges in his divorce filing that his wife was involved in Kyron’s disappearance. The pre-divorce filing story shows Ms. Horman as a caring parent (to Kiara, to the extent that Mr. Horman portrays her as engaged) and an involved step-parent (to Kyron). The post-divorce story about the bus stop reads like bad foreshadowing from a pulp fiction novel.
There’s a marked difference about what Kaine Horman said before filing for divorce, and what he said after. The before-filing story is more neutral. It describes Mr. Horman and Terri Horman going to the bus stop, finding out that Kyron is not on the bus, and their individual reactions to that news. Mr. Horman assumed it was a misunderstanding by Kyron who must have thought the family was meeting at the school. However, Ms. Horman remained at the bus talking to the driver, and the driver responded by calling the school. It was only after the school reported that Kyron hadn’t been there all day that the two of them ran for the car.
The post-divorce filing casts Mr. Horman as the parent who put on Kiara’s shoes while Ms. Horman sat using her laptop, apparently removing herself from interacting with the family and not helping care for Kiara. Mr. Horman also claims he took Kiara to the bus stop and Ms. Horman lagged behind, though she arrived before the bus arrived at the house. Then, on learning the news about Kyron not being at school, it was Mr. Horman who sprinted for the car, while Ms. Horman again trailed behind him. The later story makes no mention of Ms. Horman’s concern about Kyron’s absence, nor her discussion with the bus driver. To the contrary, Mr. Horman omits any statement of Ms. Horman’s concern nor her conversation with the bus driver, and places her as lagging behind him and not really participating. Mr. Horman claims he could not see her, when he heard the news, which is misleading, as based on his other statements, it would suggest she was behind him while he talked to the bus driver. Clearly, this was not the case.
evie says: December 29, 2010 at 7:47 pm
“Someone asked this week about the samples of Kyron’s clothing that was displayed. I’ve had the link open here but no chance to reply. See the clothing photos here: http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm#kyron
‘the likenesses of the shirt, pants, socks and shoes Kyron was wearing on the day of his disappearance. The pants displayed here are of the same style Kyron was wearing, but those he was last seen in were darker. Otherwise these clothes represent identifying items in this search. We show these items to create additional awareness for the public – seeing any of these items individually (a sock, a shirt or shoe) could be the tip that we need to locate Kyron.’”
Maybe it’s just me, but it struck me as weird that the police put on display what appear to be dirty (or stained) socks and bleach-spotted pants. Kyron’s family had tons of his clothes from which to select replicas for the socks and pants. Why pick those? Or are these the actual clothing, located by law enforcement or perhaps returned by the kidnapper?
It was also very strange how the glasses were shown as close-ups, right down to the side of the frame, giving the brand, model, and size. Did law enforcement have reason to believe that someone went to buy replacement glasses for Kyron? Or did they believe that the glasses were kept as a souvenir of sorts by the kidnapper?
I believe that TH’s silence, her withdrawal from attempting to see her child, etc., is based on the fact that a child custody dispute must not be used as a criminal trial concerning another child’s kidnapping. It risks turning the non-custodial spouse into a criminal in Family Court, on trial for a separate issue/crime, and unable to experience the legal rights of an accused criminal in a criminal trial.
Think of it this way: TH has not been arrested. She has not been accused of a crime. Yet “discovery” in a child custody case, even muffled by the claim that it is only to determine her status as a fit mother, would then be revealed to LE who might already just be dying to nail you for that (unrelated to child custody) crime. And…that information, via discovery in a non-criminal Family Court case, will really be just an ikc-factor history of your lousy marriage and your estranged spouse’s conviction that you are a POS. Based on what? On his information from LE, which was, as far as I can tell so far, never absolutely proven as true.
I’m going to walk in TH and her lawyer’s shoes for a minute.
I am a terrible person. I’m a slut. I’m a selfish witch. I did many things that are truly disgusting.
I did not kill my stepson, by the way. The awfulness of me is all about my relationship to a husband who has his own character flaws. Our relationship sucked. We had reached the point where we hated each other. Perhaps in the poison of our relationship, we knew people in our social lives who hated us for other reasons entirely, and Kyron was a victim of that.
Desiree deserves the truth about what happened to her little boy.
If it takes years to learn that truth, so be it. But I am afraid that public opinion about what a “not named” suspect is doing to protect her legal rights is too often being viewed as an auto-pilot action that spurns her own children and indicates her guilt.
I am a mother, and I would delay my desperation to see my own child if I were facing being exposed as a horrible mother and bad person in a child custody dispute. I would want my rights protected.
Mainly because someday, I’d look my children in the eye and say “I did not see you for a year because I had to prove I was not guilty of a horrific crime, and until that occurred, I had to suffer missing you and I had to pray to G-d that the truth would come out, and that you would live the rest of your life knowing for certain that I was innocent.”
I am not caring, at all, who turns out to be guilty in Kyron’s disappearance. I am only caring that when that person, whoever he/she is, is proven guilty with iron-clad evidence (no matter how long that takes), that person suffers the appropriate fate.
In the meantime, as much ick seems to be surrounding the Horman marriage and their relationship, I am seeing this case as a public opinion trial of TH and I think that is wrong.
I have to ask LE: Is how you have handled this case so far working out for you? Is leaving so much silence at the feet of the public helping the investigation? Are all the rumors and gossip resulting from a highly secretive investigation guiding you to the SOB who took Kyron?
Is there anything you can do differently now, LE, to up the odds that you will find this child and find his kidnapper(s)????
A mother needs to know the truth. I get Desiree and I think she’s been unbelievably strong. But in her shoes, if I had the background I had with my ex-husband and his second wife, and all the negative feelings that are associated with it, would I want the wrong person remain the full focus of this investigation?
Would I wait years to make certain that LE found the right culprit?
Yes.
In my neck of the woods, a family saw the release from state prison of the man convicted of killing their social worker mother/sister/daughter/wife. They understood from the DA’s office that the man was proven to not have killed her. What do you do, in that situation, when you learn that the wrong person was convicted of the death of your loved one?
Would any of us ever want to go through that just to wrap up a case?
That’s not closure.
Get the person who took Kryon. The RIGHT person, and if it’s TH, okay, and if not??????
puzzled says:
December 30, 2010 at 1:55 pm
good wrap up of the investigation so far and where it could go …
http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html
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puzzled …
Thanks for posting the newest link to part #4 of True Nelson’s series about Kyron’s case. (“The Kyron Horman Investigation/Summary and Analysis/Part 4/The Conclusion”)
http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html
I’ve been following True Nelson’s blog all summer and have found it very interesting and helpful.
As a former Special Agent of the FBI, who now is involved in security consulting in the Portland area – he offers some great insight and different angles to view all of this.
I like hearing his opinions on PDX local politics/media/etc.
He can be blunt – but in a good way. MOO
His current theory that Kyron may have been spirited out of the country (south of the border) by one or more people has merit.
Again MOO.
I respect that he states what HE would do if he were in Kaines shoes right now.
The reward – not from bake sales, but cash$$ with no questions should be offered-up and that info needs to be circulated internationally (ie south of the border).
God forbid I would ever be in the hellish nightmare place that Kaine + Desiree are living right now – but I think at least talking to outside security specialists/former FBI/etc would be something I would consider at this point.
At least get input and idea’s from sources like this.
Again … all of the above is strictly MOO and IMO and all that jazz.
But thanks puzzled for your newest link.
I always look forward to your posts … informative and heartfelt too!
Blink, I am having posting issues-am I in spam, perchance? Thanks!
Nope, your up.
B
Okay-took out MCSO web link-trying again!
From Multnomah County Sheriff website, about June 12 or 13:
Your knowledge of his description and information regarding the search will raise public awareness and work in concert with our search and rescue efforts. To add to that information, we have on display the likenesses of the shirt, pants, socks and shoes Kyron was wearing on the day of his disappearance. The pants displayed here are of the same style Kyron was wearing, but those he was last seen in were darker. Otherwise these clothes represent identifying items in this search. We show these items to create additional awareness for the public – seeing any of these items individually (a sock, a shirt or shoe) could be the tip that we need to locate Kyron.
Also, we conducted a road canvas today from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m., in an effort to contact motorists who may have been on the road when Kyron was headed to school last Friday. This road canvas targeted commuters, route drivers, delivery drivers; anyone who may have seen anything suspicious that morning, and all information taken this morning has been forwarded to investigators.
MCSO website(won’t take link-sorry!)
************************************************
“Seeing any of these items individually (a sock, a shirt or shoe) could be the tip that we need to locate Kyron.”
“Individually”, why was it put that way. Why didn’t they just say “any of these items”? Were they afraid that if someone found only one item they wouldn’t think it important? The shirt would be individual to begin with–but “a sock”, “a shoe”?? Or am I placing too much importance on how LE put this?
________________________
Also, the road canvas-I had forgotten about that. So they attempted to talk to “commuters, route drivers, delivery drivers; anyone who may have seen anything suspicious that morning”– “motorists who may have been on the road when Kyron was “”headed TO school”" last Friday.”
Interesting. Were they looking for a suspicious vehicle that may have been following TH’s white truck on the way to school? Or one who pulled immediately behind her when she turned into the school’s lot? And how would anyone think there was anything suspicious about multiple vehicles pulling into a school area that was holding a science fair to begin with? What type of vehicle would look instantly out of place on a busy morning? Would a vehicle like a large, crappy van with blacked out windows fit the bill, or a long, fancy car with tinted windows? Just my suggestions of what “might” have looked out of place.
Because I’m thinking that the vehicle would have to look pretty unusual to commuters, delivery drivers, etc., to think it was out of place going to a science fair at a rural school to begin with.
Or maybe LE is looking for a lone man/woman strolling (by foot) towards the school with a large duffel or suitcase. That might look pretty out of place, unless that person was accompanied by a child and was on the way to the science fair, and simply lived close enough to walk.
***************
Ever since I read how one local begged LE to check some nearby train tracks (she was worried, since neighborhood kids liked to play there)–I have been concerned that someone carried Kyron away by foot, and that he may have never been taken in a vehicle to begin with. He could have been carried away in a large container, the person walking through the woods to where a getaway vehicle was parked. I know the dogs tracked his scent to the parking lot, but wasn’t sure if they had scented anywhere else too. What if?
@Lea
Thank you for that post I needed to read something that made sense
or I was going to just give up this whole deal
it has been real depressing to me lately
Cbickel says:
I think I’ve heard all I want to hear about KH,TH,DY,TY,DDS,MC,RS,
AS-S,the list goes on and on does it not?
~~~
Puzzled says:
TY … this is my frustration also. These people need to get off the stage. They a distraction to finding out what happend to Kyron.
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Yes the divorce publicity is a bit much. However, if I were in Kaine’s position (and truly felt TH was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance based upon LE information) I would do whatever was necessary to protect my daughter. He is obviously following the advice of his attorney.
Respectfully, “these people” include Kyron’s grieving parents. They did not choose the horrific circumstances that caused them to end up on “the stage”.
In my opinion, expecting them to get off the stage is akin to asking them to give up looking for their son.
The point is if they have superior IT skills, your not going to find an e-print.
B
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I don’t know if this is what you’re referring to at all Blink, but I know for certain there is a lot of freeware out there online to make yourself “anonymous” when just surfing online, not to mention actual full-fledged internet software you can buy which is pretty stealthy and helps you surf the web completely anonymous without leaving any cookie crumbs behind in the process. And that’s without any major IT knowledge … anyone can do it. I don’t even want to know how invisible you could make yourself with major IT skills on top of basic computer knowledge, but it’s scary what is possible across the Web community today, with or without IT skills.
I was the one that asked about those pieces of clothing- the stained pants- they didnt look bleach stained to me- they looked like they were possibly urine stained -I just thought that it was odd myself to show those pants. and wondered if they were actually Kyrons
@50. Puzzled. I’m on the page, or this post, of you/True. BTW KH, tho devestated, was financially sophiticated enough last July, and intelligent enough, to borrow against the retirement fund and put the reward out, as True suggests. These homespun sales are endearing but not productive.
@ mockingbird #48 I think its a valid question- I know someone who died young and their step father took out a VERY large ins. policy out on them less than 6 mo before this person died. It WAS investigated believe me. Maybe the scenario involving Kyron didn’t go as planned. Maybe suing the school district- there are many scenarios. Yes its impossible to tell unless you have access to insurance records but it’s still possible and somewhat probable. I think that unless more info is released by LE, it’s going to be extremely difficult to go very far in theories. Many posters here have fabulous theories(maybe even me) but not much to actually substantiate with solid facts.
This has no bearing on the case, but I did find it odd that Kyron’s BF that starts with K went bowling for the first time this year, and he is older than Kyron.
B
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IMO, there are an awful lot of odd things surrounding that family Blink. I think we might’ve seriously been onto something mths ago when we were researching these people … I just keep coming back to that feeling … you know … that strong, intuitive one you mentioned we should all pay attention to in regard to protecting our children?
Speaking of which … someone posted something here a few pages back about sassifras over at SM doing some current background checking on some of them and she came up with some very interesting tidbits of info. Sauvie Island connection, living in the house in front of JK who allegedly witnessed the weird truck sightings around the questionable day, Kim’s son K going bowling with TMH and Ky for the 1st time just days before his disappearance, etc.
I read all of sassi’s posts but kept going intrigued and eventually she commented later about them allegedly also owning a boat, which under the circumstances kinda creeped me out further. Anyone read/heard anything about this tidbit at all? I don’t remember ever reading that info before. Assuming LE knows this and has delved into this deeper? Just wondering maybe where that boat would’ve been docked around June 4th and a few days after. AV is one scary individual and CV is quite the peach as well (snark alert).
On CV’s FB page back in Sept, there is this comment, among others referring it seems to his mom (my comments in parentheses)
party at my house for my father 1 year passed away on Sunday the 19th
September 17 at 1:52pm
(??????? am I missing something here? A celebration???)
More comments:
bye crazy bitch
October 5 at 1:11pm
life are alot more easier when mom are not home
October 7 at 10:31pm
crazy bitch will be home in couple hrs.
October 11 at 10:59pm
(don’t know what to make of any of this really, but just get weird vibes all around) FWIW
cosmos says:
December 28, 2010 at 6:52 pm
Small world. Terri’s birth place (Grass Valley, CA) and Cat Villareal’s (Auburn, CA) are not far from each other.
————————————-
According to sassifras over at SM’s, the Villareal’s also used to live in Aloha at some point. IIRC, so did the Horman’s early in their relationship. Not sure how big Aloha is, but wondering if maybe there were Villarreal/Horman connections at some point in the past? JMO
9.NelMel says:
December 30, 2010 at 3:08 pm
12.NelMel says:
December 30, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@NelMel- Just read your posts and am nodding my head, yes, yes. Very well said and IMO fair as well.
10.Letsworktogether says:
December 30, 2010 at 3:19 pm
@LWT- I’ll try to find a better picture, basically they are all pretty grainy from being blown up. I just see a marked resemblance and wondered “Is it just me wanting to see something in my need to find some answers?”
I just get nauseous on a regular basis thinking about Kyron and what has happened to him. And now Jonathon Foster: For God’s sake, what is wrong with some of these people that roam our earth? They are sick beyond measure. These horrible crimes are just unfathomable. All I can do is pray for all of these victims and their families, and watch out for the safety of the people in my circle of life.
OT…the Jonathan Foster case is unfolding in our former neck of the woods and is tragic beyond words. The alleged perp reportedly was an aquaintance of his family, and was reportedly performing some maintenance/janitorial services at the family’s apartment complex. The perp allegedly entered the apartment and found Jonathan alone. She was allegedly caught on surveillance cameras disposing of his remains. My DH knows the homicide detectives working the case, and says they are devastated. The story is that when the perp was arrested she showed no remorse whatsoever. The motive for this crime is unknown at this point. LE is looking into the possibility of further victims in other areas.
I am keeping Jonathan, his sister, and his family in my prayers. As always, I send my prayers for Kyron and all who love him.
You know your DH and I are gonna agree on this from a root cause perspective-
I hear what your not saying and I agree.
B
@Lea Conner says:
December 30, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Thank you for the follow up thoughts on Kain’s bus pickup story. From the amount of attention you’d given it, I thought there must be some clue or other hint that I was missing.
It sounds as if you came to the same conclusion I did.. in the retelling, different details were included or highlighted. You go on further to attach meaning to the inclusion/exclusion based on KH’s frame of mind at the time. My question to you is: Why? You are a family law practitioner, right? This surprises you, that someone in the midst of a divorce would slant their thoughts one way or another? To me, it’s obvious his bias colored his retelling, but so what? Those weren’t sworn statements to the court or LE, they were re-tellings to Oprah and reporters.. it has no bearing on the investigation at that point.
“There’s a marked difference about what Kaine Horman said before filing for divorce, and what he said after.”
I just don’t find this shocking. Then again, my head is at 30K’ with a flu.. I have no idea where the rest of me is right now, lol.
pdxgirl says: December 30, 2010 at 1:24 pm :
“CBickel, respectfully, I must disagree. For better or for worse, the divorce and the criminal investigation are interconnected. There definitely may be some reason why Terri’s or someone else’s medical records would reveal something that somehow connected to Kyron’s disappearance or some other criminal activity. (She is saying she will need to plead the 5th, remember?) I believe the reference to “medical records” is a specific but veiled threat from Rackner, and Terri knows exactly what she is referring to. There is something in those records that she doesn’t want out there, and I believe it will have criminal implications–either to Kyron or some other criminal activities.”
I think you misunderstood me, if he wants to try and subpoena his estranged wife’s medical records, more power to him. If LE got them, well then more power to them as well. What I am saying is WHY make this public? Why not just “do” it? I mean seriously why are you and I even discussing it? I mean no disrespect either, I just don’t understand why we even know that he wants her medical records.
**********************************************************************
Nancy says: December 30, 2010 at 5:15 pm
“Yes the divorce publicity is a bit much. However, if I were in Kaine’s position (and truly felt TH was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance based upon LE information) I would do whatever was necessary to protect my daughter. He is obviously following the advice of his attorney. Respectfully, “these people” include Kyron’s grieving parents. They did not choose the horrific circumstances that caused them to end up on “the stage”. In my opinion, expecting them to get off the stage is akin to asking them to give up looking for their son.”
With all due respect Nancy, what you wrote proves what I was saying, the “divorce” has taken on a life of it’s own and has indeed put Kyron on a back burner. KH does need to “get off the stage” with the divorce in order to keep the story of his missing son in the spot light.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
Maybe the clothes were for scent dogs
in the search
I think I’ve read every crumb of information about Ky’s disappearance from day one, including the thousands of posts at BOC. I’ve tried my damndest to go with the flow and look at alternate scenarios, but honestly, I keep coming back to my original opinion and that is that TH is the mastermind of Ky’s disappearance. I apologize in advance for not addressing specific people whose posts I might be in direct disagreement with, I can’t keep who said what straight right now because I’m brimming over. So please forgive…
First, on the day of Ky’s disappearance, Terri supposedly went to 2 Fred Meyers allegedly looking for meds for Kitty who had an earache. For starters, when my daughter was a toddler and had an earache (she had them frequently), I went to THE PEDIATRICIAN, I didn’t drive all over east bumf*ck with a sick child in tow. There really is no OTC med for earache except children’s tylynol or motrin. Earaches in young children need to be examined by a DOCTOR, imo. She claimed the first Freddy’s didn’t have what she needed so she drove to another Freddy’s. According to my friend, TBZ, (who said I could post this bit of info although she said it first and she’s a local), there were at least TWO pharmacies closer than the second Fred Meyers. That’s hinky to moi.
The theory about Satanic Ritual Abuse: please abandon that one, people. I worked in a psych hospital with an inpatient program for adults abused as children for years. I was involved in countless sodium amytol and sodium brevital interviews, which were supposed to uncover supressed memories. The only ritual abuse I was certain of was that perpetuated by Fundamentalist Christains against their own children. The most severe was a “Reverand” who raped his sons repeatedly and anbother was a crazy snake handler – need I say more? If you want to learn about memory and the tricks it plays, the two to read are Elizabeth Loftus, MD and Frank Pittman, MD. There is a phenom known as “inscaping”, where what feels like actual memories come from suggestion. I could go on for a month about this, but it’s not germaine to finding Kyron…
About Terri calling 911 so often. To me, it’s similar to people who only go to urgent care or the ER even for their primary care. She’s reactive and wants help NOW – she ain’t gonna wait. It’s entirely possible she did think either she was invincible or didn’t equate calling 911 with her own criminal culpability – two different things to her.
Terri’s been described by, for one, the teacher she long term subbed for, as an extreme planner. Hmmm…
Isn’t it odd that only Terri knew that Ky was acting spacey?? I haven’t heard anyone else say that. Maybe if we knew the truth about the “mixed up” Dr’s. app’t on the day Ky disappeared, we’d have a clue about whether “…the doc thinks he might be having seizures…”
I, for one, don’t really find Kaine’s statements weird or suspect. If I found out my spouse tried to hire someone to kill me ( and LE felt convinced enough that Kaine got an EMERGENCY RESTRAINING ORDER)I think I would be subtley skewing information so that my KILLER couldn’t get visitation with my toddler. Kaine found out a lot he didn’t previously know about Terri at that point. Imagine someone you thought loved you and had your back really hated you and wanted you dead??!! That really just blows my frickin’ mind.
I don’t know what Terri is guilty of, but I do know patterns, and when I read about her it forms a picture of a woman who started off as someone other than who she became by the time she tried to hire a hitman to kill her husband. At this point, I don’t care if it’s drugs or depression or just plain sociopathy that made Terri the way she is today. Imo, once murder becomes part of one’s internal equasion and is something one is comfortable with, then it’s a short path from hiring a hitman to get rid of a hated husband to doing the same for a hated step child.
My last rant du jour: people who lie, lie. They lie to their spouse, their friends, and yes to their lawyers. It happens all the time. They lie in court. I had a family member who was a handwriting expert (sequential entries was her exptertise). She was a professional expert witness and told me the this: People lie in court all the time and there’s no grownup in charge.
This is all of course moo. sorry if I rambled but I’m pissed and want Ky and his loved ones to have peace.
The minor J was out of HIS school district a week earlier than the PPS. The grandmommie is 70 or 80! Alz…heimers was setting in,(sorry grandmommie-my gloves fell off) her statements are and were kind of, well only should be, taken with that grain of salt thought. The boy scout camp was during the week of and ending by the 4th. He arrived at the H house sometime on the 5th? I believe.
Now, that statement by a friend makes more sense. A ‘source’ had mentioned that Kyron spent very few weekends at his down south momma’s house. Very Few.
They used to do a trade off. The sheltered Nook would either have two boys there, or none. Why was this weekend different. Why would this be opposite?
Lea Conner says:
December 30, 2010 at 3:42 pm
“However, Ms. Horman remained at the bus talking to the driver, and the driver responded by calling the school. It was only after the school reported that Kyron hadn’t been there all day that the two of them ran for the car.”
It did not seem overly significant to me that TH spoke to Kyron’s bus driver and then he called the school. It sounds like either way it went down, whether TH was tremendously concerned about her step-son not being on the bus or dragging behind because she wanted to laugh behind Kaine’s back at what was about to go down, TH did not want to get into the car and drive to the school as a first reaction as Kaine did. She wanted the bus driver to call the school. Instead, she had a conversation with the bus driver and had him call the school. It is my understanding it was then that the school notified LE. Hmmm…..
http://wweek.com/editorial/2010/12/29/drawn-out/
2010 in Comics – Willamette Week
Clouds over Portland weep for Kyron. Heartbreaking cartoon. It’s the 5th one.
That sound would be the breath out of my lungs I wish I had to offer this baby.
Your right. Heartbreaking and goose bump inducing.
B
Hi Blink,
Has LE interviewed all the men who attended the SF who were not accompanied by a significant other (SO) or a minor child? Based on my sorting method for the list there are about 37 males listed. There are other males on the list but they were accompanied by a SO or minor child. Are any of the 37 males associated with TH or KH? Are the males all a parent of a child who attends skyline elementary? There are 91 females on the list that are not associated with a significant other or minor child. Has the SF scene been mapped out and attendees marked on the map as to their movement around the school on June 4th? Have the attendees recreated their movements throughout the school that day?
1. June 2010 CLEAN PANTS,
THEN STAINED PANTS?
iodizedseasalt says:
December 30, 2010 at 5:24 pm
… stained pants…looked like they were possibly urine stained…wondered if they were Kys
See same / similar pants Ky wore bowling and with his Grandpa just days before, don’t look splotchy. Strange.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1356420&id=1264414625&fbid=1485803106095
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1356441&id=1264414625&fbid=1485807626208
Blink surmises that Ky is no longer with us; could it be because they did indeed find Ky’s real clothing along with his real glasses?
2. PAST IS PROLOGUE – 911
@ Blink
They did not count on TH calling police on guy who says she tried to hire him to kill her husband- who would do that if they had something to hide, and then follow it up with calls to MCSO about custody…
Agency who she now knew was treating her as defacto suspect, she called them for help 3x in one day.
@ mockingbird,
Of course TH called 911. Past is Prologue.
TH and the whole town were on heightened alert, told to call 911 if anything funky came along. No surprise that TH called 911, it’s how she operates.
Yes, TH has something to hide, but even bigger, fear took over, what did she get herself into, including perhaps a threat to Kiara?
3. E-PRINT is there, somewhere
@ Blink,
The point is if they have superior IT skills, you’re not going to find an e-print.
and
@iodizedseasalt says:
December 29, 2010 at 11:09 am
…there is “e-print” of suspect zero, uses an alias, IP address, friends, library, business computer…
AND SZ likely schooled TH, who schooled her friends on how to buy disposable cell phones under fake names.
E-prints are there under alias, but may show up innocently under comment by someone SZ knows, a casual comment on third party page, unbeknownst to SZ?
So, for example, young AV’s myspace &/or FB may inadvertently have a clue buried?
4. UN-NAMED MYSTERY MAN
There are actually two, since we don’t know if plaid shirt guy has been identified?
@neighbor says:
December 30, 2010 at 2:16 am
@ Idahogal says:
December 30, 2010 at 9:01 am
Yes, SF guy does kind of look like Forest Grove JMV guy, third one down:
http://www.life360.com/sex-offenders-forest-grove-or
Where was JMV on 6/4; is he left-handed?
Is there any connection with Holm-Villarreal clan? Could left-pocket envelope have been a wad of cash? Or maybe a ransom note that Blink speculates TH may have found in her car?
5. Recovering Ky
@ Blink
It is my sincere belief they will need to recover Kyron to prosecute this case.
*****
But, Blink, There was one question at an early presser, if MSCO needed a body to arrest?
The answer then was an emphatic “no.”
Legally, they do not.
Realistically, imo, to secure a successful prosecution they need direct evidence Kyron is deceased.
B
Blink,
I am referring to meeting conducted and facilitated by LE…
We hear of many month tip-line back up.
We need your help, superior emotional intelligence, calming experience and influence. You could be the bridge between LE and the Moms, tease out issues, where people are SCARED OUT OF THEIR GOURD to talk, lest a loved-one could be next.
Blink,
Help us! You could perhaps arrange to call in as an active intermediary, set tone, lay ground rules, your intuition could guide dialogue, just as you do with aplomb on the radio.
Do you record your radio shows remotely?
You did say somewhere that you would travel for your work.
Portland is a beautiful place to visit!
Formalized agenda could include mutual unanswered questions to ask and answer. Suggestion is to take meeting to safe, off-site, neutral, professional and secure territory.
How hard could this be to organize?
Wake up, People! The lives of our children are at stake!
That is very kind of you, unfortunately, your missing the point, this is a LE investigative inquiry, only an individual qualified within that jurisdiction can facilitate, these days, the task force, with the DA’s blessing.
I cannot underscore that enough. I am not talking support group, I am talking running the pasta through the strainer one more time and letting it drain, instead of one noodle at a time.
B
Rose says:
December 30, 2010 at 2:27 pm
@ 32. DReader. How do you relate this to Kyron’s case?
Rose,
I guess I relate because I’m about to send my godsent to school soon. I’m a tough (bored?) house wench. IDK why this hit me so hard? hmm. Maybe because Portland feels like home to me. It’s close. The players could have been my friends? No-they weren’t thank goodness. Is that an answer? I care. I’ve read everything. I kept notes. My attitude hasn’t felt ANY gratitude for the local non-performers and I’ve never had a long fuse to appreciate purposeful ignorance.
I know, familiarity breeds contempt. There ya go. At least it’s honest.
Sammy says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
December 30, 2010 at 5:03 pm
puzzled says:
December 30, 2010 at 1:55 pm
good wrap up of the investigation so far and where it could go …
http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html
***********************************************************************
Thanks puzzled …
for posting the newest link to part #4 of True Nelson’s series about Kyron’s case. (“The Kyron Horman Investigation/Summary and Analysis/Part 4/The Conclusion”)
http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html
I’ve been following True Nelson’s blog all summer and have found it very interesting and helpful.
As a former Special Agent of the FBI, who now is involved in security consulting in the Portland area – he offers some great insight and different angles to view all of this.
I like hearing his opinions on PDX local politics/media/etc.
He can be blunt – but in a good way. MOO
His current theory that Kyron may have been spirited out of the country (south of the border) by one or more people has merit.
Again MOO.
I respect that he states what HE would do if he were in Kaines shoes right now.
The reward – not from bake sales, but cash$$ with no questions should be offered-up and that info needs to be circulated internationally (ie south of the border).
God forbid I would ever be in the hellish nightmare place that Kaine + Desiree are living right now – but I think at least talking to outside security specialists/former FBI/etc would be something I would consider at this point.
At least get input and idea’s from sources like this.
Again … all of the above is strictly MOO and IMO and all that jazz.
But thanks puzzled for your newest link.
I always look forward to your posts … informative and heartfelt too!
DReader, I have asked this very question on different threads of this blog. I agree. What do you think it means?
16.DReader says:
December 30, 2010 at 9:50 pm
snip> They used to do a trade off. The sheltered Nook would either have two boys there, or none. Why was this weekend different. Why would this be opposite?
jan says:
December 30, 2010 at 10:54 pm
Blink surmises that Ky is no longer with us; could it be because they did indeed find Ky’s real clothing along with his real glasses?
———————-
I think that if someone took the time to remove all of Kyrons clothes it would be because they changed his clothes to hide his identity. If they needed to change his appearance then that could be because they intended to take him somewhere where people would see him. IMO that would make it more likely that KY was alive as a captive somewhere, Like elizabeth smart or steven stayner.
Lea says: “On one level, the evolution of the bus stop story annoys me because it shows how stories are twisted and outright misrepresented in order to gain an upper hand in a divorce, and especially where child custody is involved.”
I’m sure this happens a lot, maybe even more so when divorce lawyers are involved, but it isn’t always true. Sometimes spouses are more protective of each other to begin with and do NOT tell the whole truth if it exposes the other spouse in a way that would affect their relationships with family, children, colleagues, or friends and church members, hoping that things will be worked out without having to say more (assuming what you could say does not involve violence or other criminal behavior). Based on my own experience, even when custody is involved, the “beginning of the end (divorce)” started with a lot of omissions and just enough facts to try to make a point – but not the whole truth. When it became obvious that wasn’t enough and more questions were asked, a little more information came out, and THEN more facts as they really were.
I’m just saying that stories that seem to change can evolve from a degree of protectiveness, no matter how much the other person seems not to deserve it, to a “lay it all out on the table” version which may be much more accurate – just as much as they can evolve from truth to an embellished or “reconstructed” version. Not saying one way or the other about Kaine, but he did say that he wished Terri was back by his side and helping to look for Kyron, but that he could see that it was not to be.
If someone is giving a timeline, I do not automatically think there are purposeful, hidden meanings (and yes, I believe in statement analysis if done properly) behind all the words. For example, “lagging behind”. Maybe that’s exactly how she was walking. Maybe she didn’t want to stop what she was doing on the computer or got a text message or had a rock in her shoe – the point is he saw that she was lagging behind and didn’t notice why. Maybe it only became important to him when people started asking for more details.
I can see that opposing divorce attorneys might paint Kaine’s comments about putting on Kiara’s shoes and about Terri being on her laptop as significant representations of their parenting involvement, but I don’t, and I don’t assume that was necessarily Kaine’s intent. It was a significant moment in time and he (and everyone else) was searching his memory as much as others were searching the fields and buildings. It could be true, but I can’t decide that from what little he says at that time.
And about heading back from the bus to the car – maybe Kaine did hear Terri’s side of the conversation, but maybe, with a child along and a bus motor running and Terri’s head facing away from him and her voice aimed inside the bus door, he only heard the bus driver (who may even have shouted) say he wasn’t there all day.
Still wondering – why did the bus driver call the school? They were 5 minutes away, and both had cell phones.
At that point in time, Terri would not have wanted anyone to know if she KNEW he wasn’t waiting there – maybe she wanted to make it very clear to the bus driver that she thought he should have been on the bus.
Was she not sure yet whether Kyron was really gone? Was she afraid he might be waiting there and have something to tell Kaine?
Did she think if the school said he wasn’t there, that Kaine would not go to the school just like she seemed surprised that Desiree would come on to Portland if Kyron wasn’t here? Maybe she thought he would just call some of Kyron’s friends instead. Was there anything at the school that Terri might have hoped was gone before a search began – something in the garbage that wouldn’t normally be noticed?
Did she try to make it the bus driver’s fault for leaving school too soon without him (because she was “sure” he was there or because she was sure he was there?) so the driver called to be certain that hadn’t happened (it could cause trouble for the driver)? (I’m sure the bus driver’s testimony will include the conversation.)
Why didn’t Terri just go along with Kaine and his assumption there was a mix-up?
Or was she totally innocent and simply curious and the driver called to check because the driver wanted to know before moving on? How many kids were still on the bus waiting to get home? If there were kids on the bus, what did they say?
I have tried to fit the words “surprised” and “shocked” in here with Terri somewhere, but I can’t no matter what her role appears to be. I am open to others who may be able to do that.
It’s a really scary thing when your child doesn’t get off the bus as expected, but to hear the words “he was absent all day” must be unbelievably frightening.
I do agree with Nancy who said:
December 28, 2010 at 9:55 pm
I have read and re-read the various versions of Kaine’s bus-stop accounts the day of June 4. Sorry, I see no inconsistencies. Each account is not verbatim, some have more details than others, but each account says the same thing:
Kaine came home from work around 2:00 and TH and Kiara were there.
All three walked to the bus stop. Even in the version of TH lagging behind, Kaine says she caught up. They were all at the bus stop together when the bus driver stopped and told them Kyron was not on the bus.
Kaine thought Kyron was still at school, mistakingly thinking he was going to be picked up due to previous talk of getting treats after school.
Kaine started up the drive in order to pick Kyron up from school.
TH continued talking with the bus driver, who called the school and Kaine heard the bus driver say Kyron had not been there all day.
Kaine picked up Kiara and ran to the house.
Because TH had stayed to talk to the bus driver, she was behind him and Kaine did not see her initial reaction.
http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html
“If I was advising the parents of Kyron, I would tell them to offer a sizeable reward for locating him, and I would circulate that information internationally. The reward should be based on locating Kyron – no questions asked – with efforts made to protect the anonymity of those who provide information. I would suggest a reward of $50,000 if Kyron is located alive; $25,000 if he is located, but is no longer living. To some, this might sound cold, unprofessional, even heartless, but it would give Kyron an outside chance to be saved. If I was his father, this is what I would do.”
“I don’t mean for Kyron’s parents to hold bake sales, or spend time trying to collect the money from good-hearted strangers. I mean that Kaine should put a second mortgage on his house, borrow from his 401K – whatever he has to do to get the money. Yes, these sorts of comments are insensitive, but it’s time to stop biding our time. It’s time to stop relying on the authorities to pull-off some sort of miracle.”
“And, as for Intel, Kaine’s employer, where are they in all of this? $50,000 dollars is chump-change to them. If it was one of their key executives, you can darn well guarantee the money would already be on the table – and more. The company has a Corporate Security Department and they could make the arrangements, as well as circulate Kyron’s description and the reward world-wide.”
———————————-
OK – I can’t find my own recent post right now, but I talked about the $50,000 reward money and why it never seemed to be mentioned or prominently printed on most everything I’ve seen. I haven’t even seen it come up in interviews since Desiree appealed to increase it from $25,000. I asked Blink if she knew of cases where it actually led to a resolution, but she did not answer.
So now, I’m reading this article several people linked to and it sounds like he has never heard of the reward and is suggesting Kaine raise the money – and True Nelson lives in Portland and follows this case closely, he says.
What happened to the reward and why isn’t it promoted more? Does LE already have all they need? Obviously not, if they don’t have Kyron. What was the point of having a reward to offer? Is it being promoted in ways I wouldn’t be aware of? Or ignored?
Where EXACTLY were big bro and papa AV and BP that day? no typo. The littlest of the p’s was the deskmate. Was his big bro there that day?
It just seems so easy, for someone-psyched- to lure Kyron out with his extra time, to go find a reptillian friend for his friend.
evie says: December 30, 2010 at 8:16 pm
“Thank you for the follow up thoughts on Kain’s bus pickup story. From the amount of attention you’d given it, I thought there must be some clue or other hint that I was missing. It sounds as if you came to the same conclusion I did.. in the retelling, different details were included or highlighted. You go on further to attach meaning to the inclusion/exclusion based on KH’s frame of mind at the time. My question to you is: Why? You are a family law practitioner, right? This surprises you, that someone in the midst of a divorce would slant their thoughts one way or another? To me, it’s obvious his bias colored his retelling, but so what? Those weren’t sworn statements to the court or LE, they were re-tellings to Oprah and reporters.. it has no bearing on the investigation at that point.”
Lea Conner says: “There’s a marked difference about what Kaine Horman said before filing for divorce, and what he said after.”
evie says: “I just don’t find this shocking. Then again, my head is at 30K’ with a flu.. I have no idea where the rest of me is right now, lol.”
Annoyance is not the same as surprise. I stand by my prior statement. None of the revisionist history surprises me. What annoys me is when people can’t simply own up to their inability to maintain a relationship, and instead must destroy the other person on their way out the door.
This was not some one-night stand that went sideways. This was a marriage. More important, these two people cared enough about each other to make a baby. Regardless of what they feel about each other in the present tense, they owe it to that little girl to act like adults, and allow Kiara the stability and love that she has had for the first two years of her life.
Assuming he is acting on a law enforcement directive, Kaine Horman may have every reason to hate his wife post-June 26, 2010. However, I believe his pre-June 26 statements that make clear that Ms. Horman was not only a good parent but the primary parent to Kiara, and the primary caregiver to Kyron.
It was very clear from Mr. Horman’s various statements pre-divorce filing that Ms. Horman was home with the children every day. Although Mr. Horman may have come home early from work on some days, and perhaps even worked from home at times, Ms. Horman was the one who was there, day-in an day-out. It was Ms. Horman, not Mr. Horman, who led crafts and brought treats to Kyron’s class. In my personal opinion, those were not the acts of a disinterested parent who hated her stepson.
If there was playing for the cameras in every one of those family photos on Ms. Horman’s Facebook, it was not just Ms. Horman who was guilty, it was both of them.
These may not be sworn statements, but they are public statements that allege a belief by law enforcement as to the guilt or innocence of Ms. Horman, and with regard to crime that have not been charged. For this reason alone, I take issue with untruthfulness and attempts to mislead others.
What makes this kind of behavior intolerable, in my opinion, is that these twisted allegations presented as facts are designed to help law enforcement build a case to arrest Ms. Horman and throw her in jail, and to deprive Ms. Horman of custody of Kiara.
Mr. Horman says he wants Ms. Horman to cooperate and to talk to law enforcement, but his actions tell a different story. Twisting facts and fabricating tales could definitely make a potential witness feel as though she was being unfairly targeted, as though she is being railroaded and framed for a crime. Under those circumstances, even an innocent party would be wise to choose silence lest an “inconsistency” be labeled as making a false statement to law enforcement, which is exactly the sort of thing that happens when law enforcement has made up its mind about someone’s guilt irrespective of the facts presented.
If Mr. Horman truly believes there is evidence implicating Ms. Horman in Kyron’s disappearance, then why recasts events in order to portray Ms. Horman in a false light, and rely on fabricated allegations? Or is the law enforcement case so weak that the facts cannot speak for themselves?
Law enforcement’s sting operation turned up nothing. Is that any surprise, given the allegation that Ms. Horman called 9-1-1 on the landscaper the prior month? Under those circumstances, would you believe the landscaper’s story that this woman who called the cops on him in fact wanted him to murder her husband? Or does the landscaper’s story sound a whole lot more like payback?
I get Beejay’s point about different members of a family each having his or her own take on events. That is a big theme in families, regardless of any dysfunction or lack thereof.
In my mind, the difference here is that Mr. Horman set the standard by claiming that Ms. Horman’s story kept changing, which raises issues as to Mr. Horman’s evolving statements regarding events. More important, Mr. Horman has stated a specific belief that Ms. Horman is guilty of a crime.
Making up stories to support that allegation raises questions about Mr. Horman’s claims, and as to the underlying law enforcement investigation.
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iodizedseasalt says: December 30, 2010 at 5:24 pm
“… stained pants…looked like they were possibly urine stained…wondered if they were Kys. See same / similar pants Ky wore bowling and with his Grandpa just days before, don’t look splotchy. Strange.”
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1356420&id=1264414625&fbid=1485803106095
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1356441&id=1264414625&fbid=1485807626208
jan says: December 30, 2010 at 10:54 pm
“Blink surmises that Ky is no longer with us; could it be because they did indeed find Ky’s real clothing along with his real glasses?”
Look at the pattern of stains on the back of the left leg of the pants “replica” (the side without a pocket), then compare it to Kyron’s left pant leg while facing Kurtis. Focus on the edge of the bleaching right behind the left knee in both photos. They appear to be the same in each photo.
Were those the pants that Kyron wore when he disappeared, they would be in evidence bags.
Either someone went to a lot of trouble to create a lookalike pair of pants, or they are Kyron’s pants and he was not wearing them the day he disappeared. This is strictly my opinion, of course.
@Melnel
love your posts the last one was very good
@@Puzzled
Thanks for the link
To DReader. I meant the content of your post at 32 yesterday. I wasnt sure you were referring to Kyron. not you personally. You reported today carol moulton has been diagnosed with altzheimers. Sorry to hear that of anyone
@MockingBirdSings. Good point. I just looked at the Missing Ky FB page and the flyer they have for people to print/distribute doesn’t mention the reward. Hmmm…what did happen with that?
23.familythx says:
December 30, 2010 at 9:10 pm
I think I’ve read every crumb of information about Ky’s disappearance from day one, including the thousands of posts at BOC. I’ve tried my damndest to go with the flow and look at alternate scenarios, but honestly, I keep coming back to my original opinion and that is that TH is the mastermind of Ky’s disappearance. (snip)
**********************************************************************
Excellent post. I agree whole heartedly.
To familythx – Dec. 30 at 9:10. I agree with your post completely. Finally someone who thinks exactly what I think. Prayers and much love today for Kyron.
On Jun 16th, LE released a photo of KyH without glasses “just in case he’s no longer wearing them”:
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Polcie-release-photo-of-Kyron-without-glasses-96471494.html
If the clothes KyH was wearing on Jun 4th were found, it would make sense that LE post the photo without glasses.
Jan, I don’t think we can surmise that KyH is deceased because the clothes were found. It could, however, mean that KyH might have been taken to or through public places where he could be recognized and so they changed his attire including removing his glasses. I vaguely recall an incident in UT many years ago in which the perp took the child into a dept. store dressing room, changed the clothes and cut the hair before attempting to leave the store with the child.
This is exactly why we cannot be focused on any one thing or person, as things are not always as we expect.
Cbickel:
With all due respect Nancy, what you wrote proves what I was saying, the “divorce” has taken on a life of it’s own and has indeed put Kyron on a back burner. KH does need to “get off the stage” with the divorce in order to keep the story of his missing son in the spot light.
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Cbickel. While we both agree the media surrounding the divorce is a bit much, I believe we are viewing Kaine’s role in Kyron’s disappearance (as it relates to the divorce) just a bit differently.
You would like Kaine to get off the stage about the divorce in order to keep the focus on Kyron.
I do not see it as either/or. My view is that Kaine is having to battle on two extremely important and inter-related fronts: searching for Kyron and protecting Kiara. I do not believe these issues can be separated, as Kaine (through the divorce) is protecting Kiara from the same person he believes is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance. These are his children and he is fighting for both.
From my vantage point Kaine and Desiree have indeed been the ones attempting to keep Kyron’s name in the spotlight – and without much backup, as the media and LE have gone pretty much silent on the investigation as of late.
At least where the media is concerned, unfortunately, the divorce seems to be the one thing keeping Kyron’s name out there.
@18.justice23 says:
December 30, 2010 at 6:09 pm
cosmos says:
December 28, 2010 at 6:52 pm
Small world. Terri’s birth place (Grass Valley, CA) and Cat Villareal’s (Auburn, CA) are not far from each other.
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According to sassifras over at SM’s, the Villareal’s also used to live in Aloha at some point. IIRC, so did the Horman’s early in their relationship. Not sure how big Aloha is, but wondering if maybe there were Villarreal/Horman connections at some point in the past? JMO
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Aloha is between Beaverton and Hillsboro. The area is alot bigger than the Skyline Community. It is unincorporated Washington County. Aloha encompasses some nice homes in the hills and some homes on the low lands and a number of gangs in the area as well.
Regarding not leaving an IT footprint, besides a tech savvy person, two other types of people come to mind.
The first is some older people. I say some, because my 87 year old mom is an email guru. But my husband’s father always believed in paying bills in person, with cash, and never turned on a computer. Up until his death a few years ago he still wrote letters the old fashioned way, or used the telephone. I don’t think someone very old would fit this case.
The second type is the off-the-grid type of person. If you’ve ever lived in a rural area, you’ve probably met this type. Paranoid of everything; they grow their own food, heat with wood, etc. Probably smoke a lot of dope, home grown, of course. We had an extreme case of this here in Northern New Mexico with a man we all called the “Cookie Bandit”. I can’t tell you how often we all said he was harmless; he would break into people’s cabins only after they left, pour himself a cup of coffee, eat their food, and take home a pack of cookies, a box of cereal, a warm blanket, etc. But then one night he broke into a cabin with two police officers inside. A gun fight ensued, one of the police officers was killed, as was the cookie bandit. It was later discovered that the Cookie Bandit had killed at least two other people, one a murder in British Columbia, and one was an unsolved missing person’s case in our own area. I’m certain the Cookie Bandit had no IT footprint.
Just thinking out of the box again; this time on other types of people that wouldn’t leave an IT footprint.
@29.jan says:
December 30, 2010 at 10:54 pm
1. June 2010 CLEAN PANTS,
THEN STAINED PANTS?
iodizedseasalt says:
December 30, 2010 at 5:24 pm
… stained pants…looked like they were possibly urine stained…wondered if they were Kys
See same / similar pants Ky wore bowling and with his Grandpa just days before, don’t look splotchy. Strange.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1356420&id=1264414625&fbid=1485803106095
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1356441&id=1264414625&fbid=1485807626208
Blink surmises that Ky is no longer with us; could it be because they did indeed find Ky’s real clothing along with his real glasses?
———————————————————–
The finding of Ky’s real clothing/real glasses would be physical evidence right? I thought LE stated they had no physical evidence linking anyone to Ky’s disappearance.
@Lea: I’m at the beach, I’m enjoying it for myself and Kyron, and I’m not going to spend my time responding to what you’ve written above, though I’ve many thoughts on it with one exception. Your statement: “What annoys me is when people can’t simply own up to their inability to maintain a relationship, and instead must destroy the other person on their way out the door.” seems just a bit askew to me, and a little unfair. Personally, a Murder For Hire plot and a missing child would throw this situation into more than “an inability to maintain a relationship”. I am holding my tongue and stopping there.
Happy New Year everyone, and to Desiree, Kaine, Tony and all those who love Kyron, may 2011 bring Kyron home and help you find the peace you deserve.
This has no bearing on the case, but I did find it odd that Kyron’s BF that starts with K went bowling for the first time this year, and he is older than Kyron.
B
Blink…do you simply find it odd or do you perceive something more, such as an undisclosed/unknown/undiscussed relationship is involved?