Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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@ LYLA #15
Several threads back the time line was given about the SF day!
IIRC the school was open from 0815 to 0845 (9ish) @ which time the students were to be in their classrooms to tour the science projects in groups with the help of a few volunteers. You can find more definitive proof several pages back.
@ irishwebfoot #27
Respectfully I disagree and don’t feel how the pants the we’re “in likeness” as MCSO put it were the pants KY was wering that day and is not relative. The glasses ( as I’ve stated above ) are A different story.
@ rose #20
Yes, just because this guy has high IT tech skills doesn’t mean he obtains a job of IT skills. Recall a few pages back blink said he actuallt may be a plumber, electrician, or construction worker.
http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=125336750831264&share_id=114185528632999&comments=1
from Missing Kyron page, an Esther Horman posted “praying fromMalaysia” on July 30 at 657 am. I don’t know how it’s possible, but her pic changed from last nite when it was tge same person, I think, but much much younger pic
Likely no relevance, just wonder about the name
“To add to that information, we have on display the likenesses of the shirt, pants, socks and shoes Kyron was wearing on the day of his disappearance. The pants displayed here are of the same style Kyron was wearing, but those he was last seen in were darker. Otherwise these clothes represent identifying items in this search. We show these items to create additional awareness for the public – seeing any of these items individually (a sock, a shirt or shoe) could be the tip that we need to locate Kyron.”
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18.Ode says:
January 2, 2011 at 7:46 pm
“I recall a statement on SM that if in fact those were Kyron’s clothes why bother showing them if he was no longer wearing them. I do not believe those where the clothes Kyron was wearing. The glasses are a whole other story.”
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I agree. I remember the eyeglasses being discussed long ago and what it could signify for Kyron. Even if LE had recovered the eyeglasses and clothing from a lake, the woods, etc., it wouldn’t necessarily mean Kyron is dead. The perp could have planted the clothing to throw off LE, wanting them to believe Kyron was dead (buying himself/herself more time to go into hiding while LE conducted searches of the area where the clothing was found). But, LE’s statement above says these are “likenesses” of his clothing. I doubt Kyron had duplicate sets of clothing at home; most likely LE obtained the duplicates from stores or the manufacturers. If so, the “stain” on the pants is probably a defect in the material; the store/manufacturer would likely give LE a defective sample of clothing rather than a marketable sample, as it could still serve its purpose. Which brings me to the question I asked months ago: What is LE’s purpose in showing the public replicas of the clothing Kyron wore that day? If Kyron is still alive, the perp would in all likelihood disguise Kyron, as someone else suggested. Possibly, LE wants the public aware of what Kyron was wearing in the event someone stumbles across some remains, making them easier to identify. But, there are photos of Kyron on the day he disappeared.
Since the eyeglasses are actually Kyron’s, maybe LE was trying to confuse the perp by displaying the clothing replicas with them, under the assumption Kyron was still alive. If it began as a ransom case and the eyeglasses were returned to KH & TH with a ransom note, there was probably a stipulation that they (the parents) were not to go to LE. But, maybe LE already knew Kyron was missing and the case was quickly publicized (even if TH received a ransom note earlier in the day, maybe she didn’t reveal that to LE immediately). So, LE didn’t want the perp to know they were in possession of Kyron’s actual eyeglasses or were aware of the ransom note b/c they didn’t want the perp to panic and do anything rash. Perhaps LE kept that part a secret from the public so that it would remain a mystery to the perp.
JMO?????
@Rose and Kimberly- Maybe, if you have time, check out this fellow on Veromi, third one down on the list:
http://www.life360.com/sex-offenders-forest-grove-or
IF we were able to make a connection that might be something to really look at. I still say he looks like the Mystery Man in SF photo. Jan introduced this SO awhile back, and recently asked here if he might be the one “hiding in plain sight”. IMHO it’s not any weirder than some of the other theories we’ve pondered and heard about.
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14.Malty says:
January 2, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Is it so far out to believe Kyron is Alive when
The parents act like he is watching TV
Someplace? ESP Kaine
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@Malty – I won’t give up hope, IMHO anything is possible despite what the statistics, profiles, etc., say. I’m sure DY and KH are holding on to hope as well, any parent would.
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31.Rose says:
January 2, 2011 at 9:26 pm
http://www.faceintel.com/penang.htm
10.Jill says:
January 2, 2011 at 4:55 pm
http://www.faceintel.com/
FWIW, none of these links are working for me, IDK why, maybe Intel has already blocked the access? IDK…
I pray everyday for this little guy. This whole thing just makes my heart heavy. So sad. All I can do is hope that Kyron hasn’t suffered or been harmed. I know that this type of thinking sounds ridiculous considering the circumstances, but, after all of the heinous scenarios that have crossed my mind I selfishly think this way to make myself feel better. (As empty as it is). Everytime I check the computer (every morning) to check on Kyron I have such an uneasy, queasy feeling in my gut. I will continue to hold out hope for this little guy. Such an innocent, special, wonderful boy. Prayers and love today and always for Kyron.
I’m sharing this again, for Kyron. I won’t give up if you don’t give up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIA-PgbVYS0
Lea Conner says:
January 3, 2011 at 3:57 am
Jden says: December 31, 2010 at 10:15 pm
“To our posters with legal expertise, what would it take to classify this as a (criminal investigation), which was done 10 days after KyH disappearance?”
It became a criminal investigation the minute law enforcement concluded that Kyron did not leave the school campus of his own free will.
Kyron was classified as missing and endangered on June 4, the day he went missing.
The term “missing and endangered” is applied more broadly to children than adults. In children, missing and endangered includes lost children. In adults, law enforcement looks at the circumstances, i.e. a car door open and engine running, and signs of a struggle, but no driver.
The FBI was called in on Kyron’s disappearance on day one, which indicates that Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office opened the case as a criminal investigation. In my opinion, this is not unusual, given Kyron’s age and the absence of any other likely explanation for his whereabouts.
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lily says: January 2, 2011 at 10:37 am
“You are picking apart Kaine’s growing distrust and fear that the woman he was married to was not who she portrayed – yet it is Terri that decided it was good for Kiara, James and Kyron to have a bizarre exchange of graphic digital sexting with a former classmate of their father when she HAD TO KNOW those messages had a very good chance of being intercepted and disseminated to the public domain. HUH?”
I respectfully disagree. If Terri Horman was involved in sending any text messaging, she had no reason to expect that her texts would become “public domain.” The so-called text messages that were made public do not list both sets of phone numbers supposedly participating in each “conversation,” and there is no confirmation by law enforcement that Ms. Horman was a party to those texts.
A forensic record of text messages produced by law enforcement looks nothing like the documents filed with the court.
On the other hand, Ms. Horman’s attorneys have not denied Ms. Horman involved in texting, and some statements made on her behalf suggests they are acknowledging the same.
As I stated previously, Ms. Horman’s hands are tied. If she responds to any of the allegations, it opens the door to force her to testify. That could very well be the problem here. Of course, it is also possible she sent those texts. The only people who know are Ms. Horman and her lawyers.
As you know, Ms. Horman may choose silence for a variety of reasons, and her silence does not mean she had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance. She may believe she is being set up or railroaded. She may have some other concern that has nothing to do with Kyron’s disappearance, i.e. if she lied about her whereabouts because it was embarrassing, and as a result, could be charged with making false statements to police.
Even if you assume those texts are accurate as to what allegedly was communicated between Ms. Horman and Michael Cook, there is nothing in them that suggests she was involved in any murder for hire plot. Regardless of whether you find the alleged texts weird, skeevy, or repulsive, there is nothing in them that indicates any illegal activity whatsoever.
lily says: January 2, 2011 at 10:37 am
“With respect – Your interpretation of family dynamics doesn’t mirror real life experience or the clearly suspicious behavior of Terri Horman. What mother that loved her tiny baby daughter as much mothers do would not be screaming from the rooftops their innocence and the injustice of it all if the alternative is worse than the heart wrenching separation from that baby? I’ll answer – NO MOTHER would do that. Impossible.”
I understand what you are saying, but I respectfully disagree. There are many good parents who for whatever reason “give up” when faced with litigating parenting issues, especially when the other parent has resources and promises to bury the parent.
There is a lot about Terri Horman’s behavior that suggests depression. Depression can make otherwise normal people behave in odd ways, and it can make them “check out” or “shut down.”
It’s easy for you or me to look at the situation and say, “Yeah, if I were here, I would….” But there is an equally persuasive argument that someone who is so overcome with grief and despair would simply retreat and stop cooperating, if law enforcement began accusing them of involvement in their stepchild’s disappearance.
Yes, if I were here, I would fight like hell, even if I thought my husband was meaner and/or had more money to fight his case in court. That does not mean that my personal belief about what I would do in that situation has any relevance on what is normal, or whether a different behavior is indicative of involvement in a crime.
I believe Blink commented some time ago that Ms. Horman appeared scared out of her wits. If that is the case, then perhaps she decided not to fight Kaine Horman because she realized that Kiara was safer with him? This would make sense if Ms. Horman felt that she was the target, and Kiara was in danger if she remained with her.
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But SHE (YOU) can’t have it both ways or should I say we can’t give her the benefit in both ways… It was Ms Horman’s OWN lawyer that said she would not testify (TALK) because it could incriminate her in another on going investigation. HER OWN attorney said this… He didn’t say she was going to drop the custody issue for now because all she cared about is keeping her daughter safe? I really don’t think it is fair to make up things we THINK might cast her in a better light… Where has this site gone??
Respectfully, I hear what you are saying, and I agree it is frustrating and confusing, but legally it is not.
Bunch NEVER said she “could incriminate herself”, he is exerting and protecting her 5th ammendment right with very good reason. Very different statement.
Secondly, if TH through Bunch were to argue that she was dropping the custody suit out of concern for the safety of her daughter, she is in essence, in that statement, waiving her 5th ammendment right to answer the family court complaint. Your correct in that, she cannot have it both ways.
Like it or not, infusing the custody/divorce case in the criminal matter with open participation by LE, was a well-intentioned police tactic gone wrong here.
Does she in theory say “I fear jail” or the potential for my loss of freedom over my need to see my baby, of course she is, and that will have it’s weight significantly. Remember, she already knows she has zippo chance of seeing her daughter realistically right now, so what has she lost for now?
Nothing, that is her goal.
That said, this cannot continue like this, if she is not indicted for something soon, I expect Houze will being pushing LE behind the scenes to declare her a suspect or clear her.
I do not care if Rackner has 500 more salacious emails, I suspect the mudbowl portion of the program is over.
Where is our little treefrog guy?
B
Following is kaines version of the bus driver calling the school from the Oprah Winfrey show.
Oprah: And how was she when the discovery is revealed that he’s not on that school bus?
Kaine: I didn’t first-hand see her response, her emotional response. The three of us — my daughter, Terri and I — had gone down to the bus that day to pick him up, and as soon as the bus driver called up to the school and they had said that he hadn’t been at school for the day, I immediately grabbed my daughter and we turned and started basically running back up to the house to the car to get to the school. And she was behind so I didn’t actually see her face.
Reads to me like KH and TH both stood there as the bus driver called the school. And KH did not run and get the car while TH stood there and waited for the bus driver to call the school, they both waited at the bus as the bus driver called the school. JMO
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/live_blog_kaine_horman_and_des.html
Thinking about comments mentioned by others…
Does anyone know what Terri’s reason was for not picking up Kyron’s project since bringing the project home was her reason for having Kaine’s truck in the first place? If she has no reason, I think she knew Kyron was missing….my opinion only of course.
Megan says:
January 2, 2011 at 10:28 pm
@ CD a baby conceived in June would be due in February. And a baby conceived in July would be due in March. A baby conceived in May would be due in January. (I am pregnant due in June conceived in October.)
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Right 9 months to have a baby. JMO I was saying a baby concieved in the spring (May or June) probably would not be due in early January. I think If TH conceived much earlier May/June I think Kaine would have known about it.
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TrixiePA says:
January 2, 2011 at 12:12 pm
snip One more thought, a baby conceived in the spring would be due oh, about now. Another reason the divorce proceedings were pushed into January? Again MOO
@ Idahogal
I dug up some info on your 3rd row down guy, LOL
Looks like he has addresses in Woodburn, Aloha, Beaverton and Salem.
Has a relative with the first name of Abel, (which I have seen before).
Still looking at businesses and etc.
However; when I blow the photos up, IMO they don’t resemble each other.
Your guy has fuller jowls and cheeks and the skin is a tad darker. He appears to weigh slightly more than our Mystery Man and the nose and face shapes are different.
On another note! When I blew the SF photo up of the mystery man, I noticed the plaid shirt guy, he’s hidden and you have to look between the cardboard displays directly behing the mystery man. Cant see his face only his shirt.
Karey says:
January 3, 2011 at 7:43 am
“I agree. I remember the eyeglasses being discussed long ago and what it could signify for Kyron. Even if LE had recovered the eyeglasses and clothing from a lake, the woods, etc., it wouldn’t necessarily mean Kyron is dead. The perp could have planted the clothing to throw off LE, wanting them to believe Kyron was dead (buying himself/herself more time to go into hiding while LE conducted searches of the area where the clothing was found). But, LE’s statement above says these are “likenesses” of his clothing. I doubt Kyron had duplicate sets of clothing at home; most likely LE obtained the duplicates from stores or the manufacturers.” Karen many years ago my oldests BF had an incontinence problem at that age. His mother had MANY identical pants for just that reason. There would always be another identical pair in a ziplock (backpack, overnight bag etc) for a quick change in case of an accident. None of the other kids ever caught on.
@Blink
“It is only physical evidence in the event there is a forensic link, or other definitive proof they were Kyron’s.
Also, we do not know the exact quote Sheriff Staton used wrt to the lack of physical evidence or if was meant in context to mean they have none that implies what ultimately happened to Kyron.”
B
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http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html
“They point to one undeniable fact: They lack any physical evidence of Kyron, or physical evidence that links anyone to his disappearance.
“I think about this case constantly,” said Sgt. Keith Krafve, the task force supervisor who was the night shift sergeant when Kyron was reported missing. “Our biggest hurdle: We don’t have the kid, alive or dead.”
Though cases have been prosecuted before without a body, they’re difficult to make, and even more so when it involves a child, who leaves no phone, banking or other records behind.”
@Megan says
snip
(I am pregnant due in June conceived in October.)
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BTW I forgot to add congrats on your new impending birth. One of my daughter-in-laws is due in May. My family is very excited about the expected new arrival.
39.Lea Conner says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:35 am
“…This is strictly my personal opinion, but this is a guy who has a pattern of making babies and having the relationship fall apart when the baby is born.”
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@Lea: I don’t see any identifiable “pattern” in KH’s behavior. If TMH did develop a postpartum depression after baby K’s birth, especially one that warranted medical intervention, that certainly could have put a significant strain on the relationship.
It appears the rupture of this relationship occurred when KH learned of the alleged MFH plot against him. IMO, that information alone has the potential to irreparably damage a relationship, and poison the waters in a subsequent divorce. We also have to remember that this divorce drama is occurring under the umbrella of Kyron’s abduction which, apart from the divorce, is undoubtedly generating stress of a magnitude that most people will mercifully never experience in their lifetimes.
The hearing on abatement is this week. It will make headlines.
As I understand it, the abatement request is based on granting the divorce — which in Oregon is no-fault, so this is not about a divorce “trial.” The child custody and financials would then be decided at a later time, if abatement itself is the end result. That’s my understanding of the legalities so far.
I look for this court appearance to rock the ground. I suspect many issues will be brought up that will be related to the criminal investigation.
What I suspect is that LE opted to look to Jan/Feb for a case update, or action in the case, because it wants to see what KH and his attorney are going to present in Family Court this week.
@Idahogal: About the links you can’t access–try a different browser? They are working for me on Firefox.
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About the pants, the other clothing samples and the glasses:
In the presser where the clothes were first displayed, it was just the clothes, no glasses. The clothes were described as likenesses to show people as closely as possible what Kyron was wearing.
The pants are his pants (as shown in the photos from earlier in the week) and were described as his, and exactly like what he was wearing on 6/4 except for the color.
I can add that one explanation for the color change is the fabric. There is a type of sueded cotton that will give the effect of changed color from being touched. I agree that the crotch area looks stained or lightened but if that was a giant, old urine stain, I can’t imagine any parent letting their kid out and about in them. MOO
The shoes and t-shirt were said (by LE) to have been purchased to closely replicate the type he had on.
I agree that not mentioning his underpants is strange.. if they went to the detail of specific plain white athletic socks, why not ANY clue on underwear type?
I can’t remember if the socks were from his personal stock or purchased new for the presser. I specifically remember the pants being his actual pants, identical to what he was wearing save for color.
The glasses were not revealed until (?) 2 or some days later. That the photos now appear with the text they do, on MSCO’s site, doesn’t mean to me that the text was written to go with the photos the way you see them today. MOO
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@Rose says:
January 3, 2011 at 7:28 am
When I change my FB profile picture, it changes everywhere my avatar is posted, even old comments. There is nothing odd in the photo changing overnight.
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About the commuting to swap kids: Several people have posted different times for that drive. FYI, Beaverton to Springfield is 107 miles and can be done in anywhere from 1.5 to 2 hours one-way.
Don’t know if that will change anyone’s reckoning.
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@Lea Conner says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:35 am
(about the KH/TH relationship splitting up)
“Both of these people seem to have known at some point that their relationship was not working out. There is no reason it had to turn into a nuclear war.”
No reason except the 7 year old son of KH, who TH was charged with watching, went missing and TH stopped telling LE what she knew.
Any irrationality by KH can be explained by that. Of course it is going to color his perceptions of their recent past.
@Lea Conner says:
January 3, 2011 at 3:57 am
“If Terri Horman was involved in sending any text messaging, she had no reason to expect that her texts would become “public domain.” ”
Alright, if not public domain, how about “seen by law enforcement”? The woman knew she was under surveillance at the time. If she sent those text messages, she had to have a reasonable belief they’d be intercepted. If she could reasonably conclude they would be seen, did she do it on purpose for some reason we haven’t discussed?
Couldn’t TH have reasonably concluded that LE was aware of her texts to RS, since this was after the sting?
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@MockingbirdSings: I just love your posts.
Briefly, re your comment “I can’t say I’ve ever heard of a Mayor (or any public official) inserting himself in such unrelated/weird events.”
Adams is Mister New Media, he has openly embraced these technologies as they’ve come out and he’s been in City Hall as a way to stay hip, up front, connected to the ‘young creatives’ in town. IMO, this is a hip constituency to connect with, and they are the up and comers of Portland Business (IE ad agency W&K). There have been news stories documenting his use of Twitter and iphone apps for city business, and you can probably find his record of tweets online. Most of them are totally mundane, and I just can’t buy into any sinister plot by picking out one or two that he’s made. He jabbers all the time, IMO.
VERY interesting ideas of yours @January 2, 2011 at 12:48 pm about why TH was at the school ‘early’.
@enumclawrose says January 1, 2011 at 5:22 pm : Another great post from you, summing up how things are not what they appear to be! I just keep wanting to say, ‘This can’t be that complicated!’. And yet, nothing is exactly what it appears to be on its face.
Am hanging in with you. : )
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So here I am again, down at ground level. I’m having a hard time staying at 30,000′. Based on Blink’s lack of response regarding the Holm/Villareal family, I’m not going to go there, tempting as it is. Based further on her underscoring the importance of the Skyline community getting together for a guided chat, someone they collectively know must be near the center of this.
I’m left with the rest of you to see if this week’s court activities tell us anything new. Sorry about the megapost.
@18. Evie. Wonderful post.
What kind of guy is without an e-print these days? He could get by without owning property in Washington Co. but still would have to rent a room from someone OR live with a girlfriend. Living with a girlfriend limits his mobility in taking a child/victim to his place.
If he drives a vehicle, i.e. white truck, it would have to be registered somewhere. If in OR, I would think that would be easy enough to look thru DMV records for anyone who stands out.
Guy’s got to have income. If he’s an independent contractor of some kind, should be licensed with the state. If not, he could be a handyman who deals in small jobs for cash only. But then, he would still need to marketing his services … craigslist, 2/3 line ad in local newspaper? Still would need a way to cash checks and have ID to do so.
If he’s known or has been seen anywhere near or around the school, I’m sure he’s been identified.
He’s got some kind of cover that does not raise suspicion, but leaves has no traceable trail.
Here’s what I’m thinking … if the guy was thought to be in the area, why wouldn’t LE put out a sketch? I think he’s not in the area; left in a vehicle that’s not registered in OR.
For the longest time, I thought the illegal bunch of landscapers were the most likely … they would not have an e-print or be traceable, unless caught. Would also have access to underground movement out of country. But a person of any kind of color would be notice at Skyline … not out of place necessarily, but just noticed. AND RS and Associates have been thoroughly investigated, I’m sure.
So, if not them, then somebody we do not know of and apparently neither does LE.
If this guy is a serial something or other … then there are other missing children, just not in Washington Co. Oregon. Which says to me, he moves after he disappears a child.
I can’t shake the profile of this guy as mobile, able to live off the grid but surface, inconspicously, long enough to take a child, and disappear off the grid again.
I still believe he targeted KyH because of what was exposed on the social networks.
@ Idaho. One of my research heroes. Kim has already checked the SO but I agree that w/o some face weight loss by one it’s hard to tell. Plaid shirt man must be known only to LE— & hopefully a pasta group process. Why wouldn’t Frink OK this and ask LE/FBI to handle? Understand local Moms’ fears about exposing their families, but best defense here is offense & transparency. TY Idaho alsofor youtube reminder of Kyron.
I’m with evie, if Blinkhasn’t reiterated OK of “invasive investigation”, perhaps about Holm/Villareal clan, time to just lay low. My only thot was if Terri/Kyron stopped at Holm’s home the preceding bowling Sunday, that might’ve put Kyron on the map at that moment in time of any family member they ran into there. They might even have chatted “how’s the project coming?” but, I don’t think any in that family system have the mental organization to pull this off
What Blink says about the mudbowl is probably over gives me hope
that the devorce will go off smoothly
And we can finally find out more about where Kyron is
This is what I really hope for
evie says:
January 3, 2011 at 1:14 pm
About the commuting to swap kids: Several people have posted different times for that drive. FYI, Beaverton to Springfield is 107 miles and can be done in anywhere from 1.5 to 2 hours one-way.
Don’t know if that will change anyone’s reckoning.
**********************
True. Many Portlander’s drive weekly to University of Oregon ( Eugene) for sporting events. If you time it correctly it is not a bad drive, straight freeway all the way. It’s almost a worse drive from the Horman’s home to the Mult Cty Sheriffs office on 122nd on a Friday night at 5:00. That’s one of the reason’s it took so long for detective division to arrive at the Horman Home. Maybe the Portland Police arrived first
to cover until the county officers arrived, but this could be rumor. It just isn’t that bad of a drive, I’ve done it a lot, college kids/parents doing it every weekend.
@Blink
since Kaine is getting Kiara is there any reason for Terri to go to court
maybe she won’t show
@puzzled said “But a person of any kind of color would be notice at Skyline … not out of place necessarily, but just noticed.”
Mexicans are fairly common. Maybe so much at Skyline, but in the general vicinity. They probably would not catch my eye.
Here is a good source of photos of and in the vicinity of the school:
http://photobucket.com/images/skyline%20kyron/
@ puzzled. I don’t know that persons of color would stick out. Skyline seemed diverse & eclectic–foreign nationalities in the school, perhaps due to intel. Also, transients could have work/academic/or tourist visas from abroad with no US eprint. Or just be snowbirds winters in Vegas or New Mx, returningin May/June. Still to consider are PPS infrastructure employees–the plumbing/mechanical men.
12.Marci says:
January 3, 2011 at 10:42 am
I really don’t think it is fair to make up things we THINK might cast her in a better light… Where has this site gone??
~~~
I mean no disrespect … but I really do not understand why so many are adament that TH be guilty in the disappearance of her step-son. If she is, she is. But until she is charged, why not explore all the possibilities of what happened. LE is.
I recognize that other blogs are focused on trashing TH in every way possible, but this site isn’t other blogs. It allows, thank you Blink, for critical thinking and open dialogue, so long as we are respectful of the opinions of others.
I don’t know what happened … but I’ve not seen anything that says TH removed this child from Skyline Elementary on June 4th. At times, I admit, something new has popped into the public realm and I have said to myself “that’s it”, but then someone posts a reasonable explanation and I have to back up and rethink “well yea, that’s possible”.
For me, until LE and the DA are ready to press charges against someone, I’m holding up on a definitive opinion.
A couple of thoughts…
Someone could have a visible electronic footprint and another electronic footprint that is not visible. You could see a very normal persona on one and a completely different persona on the other. If you had advanced IT skills this would not be hard to do.
If SB on the Skyline list is in fact a bus driver why would he be attending the SF? Were other bus drivers at the fair?
@Graceinthehill (Jan 3rd 12:43 PM Eastern)
Thank you so much for explaining in such a well worded post how the stresses could fracture a marriage.
Like you, I do not see a “pattern”. One thing to consider is that KH claims (and TMH Facebook said something to this extent as well) that they “weren’t supposed to be able to have any more babies”. I took this to mean there was some fertility issue wrt TMH. I realize it takes two but I believe a “pattern of making babies” is a serious stretch.
I also wanted to put out here a thought about due dates. Pregnancy typically lasts 40 weeks. It is often not as simple as “9 months” when the reality is it is more like 10 months. This is a helpful due date calculator that might help the discussion move along.
http://www.amazingpregnancy.com/duedate/
I am not sure what you guys were trying to figure on but….if TMH were pregnant/concieved a few days before Ky disappeared (arbitrarily I put in May 31) she would be due on February 21st. (Hope I did not insult anyones intelligence. That was not my intent.)
NelMel says:
January 2, 2011 at 10:34 pm
(snipped)
Everyone of these people is busy this morning someplace else, except that dimbulb hyper-socializing redhead who makes up stories about her wandering seizure-prone stepson!
——
@NelMel – I always love your posts. This one sentence gave me a much needed laugh, TY. I agree with your thinking on this, it is very possible. I definitely feel that this adbuctor is someone known to these people in some way or another. Otherwise I cannot justify MCSO keeping so quiet and not making the public aware of a potential serial offender.
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@MBS- TY again for all the great posts and info.
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Kimberly says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:02 pm
———-
@Kimberly – TY my fellow Idaho gal! The photo from the SF is bad, sounds like your copy is much better. If you don’t find anything I guess I can let that one go. Although I’d like to put a giant lighted sign over his house that says “A Sex Offender lives here!!!” so that everyone would know and watch out for him. I hate that he lives so close to a school, there ought to be a law about that.
**************************
puzzled says:
January 3, 2011 at 2:47 pm
(snipped) What kind of guy is without an e-print these days?
@puzzled- A transient or illegal. IMO the only other option is someone very IT savvy as Blink has hinted.
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Soooo…any thoughts about DDS’s cousin that posts so much stuff everywhere but here? Maybe he is afraid of Blink, eh? Do ya’ll think LE has people reading all of these sites?
My wee little brain is fried again…how is it that so many brilliant folks cannot find this child? I fear this will become a cold case if something doesn’t pop soon. I hope we’ll hear something new this week. I would especially like another peep from MCSO on this case. The silence is deafening and not in a good way. Just IMHO.
Crazy or not, I’m willing to think of anything that is a potential cause of Kryon’s disappearance.
In a previous post I asked who would have known the family’s entire schedule that Friday — the Young, Horman, and Moulton family members scattered all over Oregon — and thus decided that June 4th was just a peachy date to act on his/(her) plan? Was/is there a person who knows this entire clan and all their hustle-bustle schedules?
Now, my next musing…
WHO THE HELL KIDNAPS THE STEPSON OF A COP???????
Think.
It appeared to me, via TY’s demeanor all along, that he had a great affection for Kyron and considers him truly part of his family.
In the meantime, TH and KH have a crappy marriage and hundreds of social contacts via FB and they hang out at gyms and they’re both just weird.
And? So what? We all know a couple like the Hormans.
Except something’s off here. TH is well aware that TY is a police officer. Hellooooo? I’m TY, I’m married to your husband’s ex-wife, and I’m taking her child, who you spend nearly every day with, fishing! I’m a police detective. Did I tell you that I was a police detective?
Please, someone quickly explain to me what kind of idiot would get rid of a stepchild she did not like all while knowing that the third or fourth person to hear the news of the child’s disappearacne
Someone that had no idea he was the bonus child of a detective.
OR
Someone the knew he was the bonus child of a detective.
I am going with door number 1.
B
B
Blink my computer crashed in my last sentence in my most recent post a second ago. Help? It should read “…the third of fourth person to hear the news of the child’s disappearance is a freakin’ police detective who is also his STEPFATHER????”
Jane Doe says:
January 3, 2011 at 3:39 am
Blink,
You might want to address the originator of a topic when it does not sit well with you. What you often do is respond to those who had ZERO to do with bringing a topic up and/or those who you seemingly like least to press your points forward. Your “We covered this ions ago” SHOULD have been addressed to Mockingbirsings with respect to the Adams topic. It stands out…..really stands out. Makes you and others look bad.
Cheers.
I will take your point constructively, except for the “those I like least” part, that is inaccurate.
We are names here, contributing to dialogue, to my knowledge it is not affiliated with any popularity contest, because if it were, I would undoubtedly lose. Unlike my J E T S. (sorry, last one)
Cheers
B
———————
I apologize. I was not trying to reintroduce anything about Mayor Adams except to show that he uses Twitter to report police news – there was a lot of discussion some time ago about why and what he commented about Kyron being missing and whether there was anything hinky about it. This was the first article I had seen which mentioned using his tweets as a news source. Granted, I don’t follow him closely. I do agree it was OT to respond to the follow up question about whether people in Portland like the Mayor and I should not have continued the discussion. I will attempt to be more aware even though I write most of my posts late at night (here) when family is asleep.
@Tarheel
I don’t have the link, however I know it was on the oregnian one-on-one interview. Desiree said that TH did not know when she could pick up the project, that she would find out “that day” and then let DY know.
As far as I know there has never been an official answer from the school,if parents could pick the projects up that day or had to wait till end of school day, or monday. Side note: both KH and DY said that it made more sense that TH took the truck vs. The mustang.
_____________________
Tarheel says:
January 3, 2011 at 11:58 am
Thinking about comments mentioned by others…
Does anyone know what Terri’s reason was for not picking up Kyron’s project since bringing the project home was her reason for having Kaine’s truck in the first place? If she has no reason, I think she knew Kyron was missing….my opinion only of course
@puzzled said “But a person of any kind of color would be notice at Skyline … not out of place necessarily, but just noticed.”
~~~
Clarification: I would think hispanic students would be in the minority at this particular school … not community … thereby would be recognizable by other students and teachers, i.e. not out of place.
Voting for door no. 1. Not like TY lived at Skyline.
@31. Ode. My thot is The List is not merely SF attendees but lists anyone who arrived on the premises (whether by car or bus) whether or not they entered the bldg… Enough to be on the property.
@26. Malty. You said “Since Kaine is getting Kiara”…. foregone conclusion.
Not that I’m critical, you’re right.
But since when are the Oregon Courts, say, Salem?
How could this happen in the USA merely due to assertion of Constitutional protections?
Naomi Wolf where are you? (or even Huffington)?
I wonder how many witnesses saw the last person with Kyron? If it is just one person, then where was the perp hiding all during the time Kyron was running around with his schoolmates looking at exhibits? Did he come out just in time to somehow lure Kyron outside to a white truck parked– where? in the very back lot or in the main public lots? Maybe he was generally around just observing the kids, but then followed Ky into a bathroom sometime around 9:45am.
I get the impression from what Blink has said, that LE has a physical description that is too vague and resembles too many people to be useful– i.e. caucasian male, dark hair, 5’8″ -5’10″, around 35-40years, etc. And the witness does not know this person’s name. I’m not sure what the face recognition software installed in the school means, that LE has a more detailed description but does not want to scare off the unnamed perp?
(“Based further on her underscoring the importance of the Skyline community getting together for a guided chat, someone they collectively know must be near the center of this.”)–Actually, the value of getting Skyline people together might be to identify a common person that was hanging around school that numerous people saw, but did not know who he was, and assumed that someone else knew him. But in fact, no one did.
Question for Lea or Blink– I know nothing about ROs. Would a judge state that there was “probable cause” to substantiate a MFH if it was just a verbal accusation by RS? Wouldn’t the judge be questioning RS’s motives in making such a statement, just as we are? Sorry if this has already been discussed, I’m having trouble remembering everything.
39.Rose says:
January 3, 2011 at 6:58 pm
@31. Ode. My thot is The List is not merely SF attendees but lists anyone who arrived on the premises (whether by car or bus) whether or not they entered the bldg… Enough to be on the property.
******
So again I wonder how many on the list could also be a bus driver? A bus would be a place a body could be taken away in.
I’ve often thought a private contractor, someone independently employed in the trades. He would have reasons to be around without having to actually be part of the parent/child community. Tradesmen use white pickups, that’s their vehicle of choice in my neck of the woods. As a poster mentioned above, a private contractor who did work for the school would have an e-print for his business. But this guy might have been a sub-contractor hired by a general contractor, and its not entirely unheard of for some of these guys to be paid in cash. A seasoned perp, no matter what occupation, would be under the radar with any online porn activity. From what I have read on this site through links, it’s usually the young, inexperienced users who get burned by LE during a porn sting, the hardcore types are very hard to trace. That means our perp is likely older in age and experience.
Blink says …
…this cannot continue like this, if she is not indicted for something soon, I expect Houze will being pushing LE behind the scenes to declare her a suspect or clear her.
~~~
Very soon, the $$$ will run out as well as time. We’re past the 6 month mark now and moving toward one year, sooner rather than later. Neither is promising in reaching a conclusion.
LE, the DA, will have to make a public move of some kind. Wonder what the public reaction will be if no charges are filed.
BTW, does anyone know if RS aka ??? has been arrested and is in custody for any reason?
14.Tarheel says:
January 3, 2011 at 11:58 am
Thinking about comments mentioned by others…
Does anyone know what Terri’s reason was for not picking up Kyron’s project since bringing the project home was her reason for having Kaine’s truck in the first place? If she has no reason, I think she knew Kyron was missing….my opinion only of course.
***********************************
As far as I’m aware of, Kaine was the only person to state that
she wanted the truck that day.
To me, it doesn’t make much sense for her (TH) to say she wanted the truck that day to pick up ky’s project and then turn around later in the day and email the teacher as to when they needed to be picked.
Think about it, if she knew it needed to be picked up that day, why would she email the teacher asking for when?
We haven’t ever heard TH’s account about the truck that day, so this statement is totally one sided.
“Bunch NEVER said she “could incriminate herself”, he is exerting and protecting her 5th ammendment right with very good reason. Very different statement.
B”
Bunch did not say she could incriminate herself, he said she would incriminate herself.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/terri_horman_willing_to_agree.html
http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Kaine–Terri-Horman-in-court-for-divorce-hearing-today-104501699.html
I think LE’s time and money for this investigation is about up and they have what they have, which I speculate to be mountains of circumstantial evidence pointing toward TH as criminally involved in the disappearance of Kyron. I think the searches and requests for information by LE the past couple of months have been to be thorough. When the Judge delayed the divorce proceedings to this month he stated that TH would eventually have to plead the 5th. Or…….? When MSCO set up the new budget/investigation process, they indicated a timeline. Which ends very soon. The arrest is coming.
YIPPEEEEEEEEEEEE ! ! !
@ 36. M’Bird., recapping Doe which I missed. I’m happy to go to corner as needed for the groupeffort when enthusiasm or ill judgement blinds me. … the cost of great moderation and instruction, as I believe Puzzler once mentioned humorously. But, I’ve seen no arbitrary responses. I’ve seen response when whatever resonates catches the busy mod’s eye–whether or not first on the topic would ofttimes to walk back.
29.Rose says:
January 3, 2011 at 2:53 pm
@Rose – TY – I had similar ideas about that clan, which is why I was such a terrier about the subject, oy vey!
@evie- TY for trying to aid me with the Intel links.
@NelMel – WHO KIDNAPS A COP’S KIDS?! Yep…one of the reasons I’ve had to look beyond TH, even though so many things look suspicious. I’ve also wondered if someone had a beef with TY…but that seems doubtful. I do believe we’ve all thought of just about every damn thing except what really happened. It is just too murky still.
@MBS- Don’t let one person ruffle your beautiful feathers. XO
@Rose
did I offend you
since Terri is not asking for Kiara I thought it was settled
Oregon is no fault
and Terri said he could have the house
so there isn’t much to devide was my thought
many people are no show when it is all settled before hand
I have no legal bones in my body
so be patient if I am wrong