Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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I’m thinkin’ LE is itching to arrest TH but doesn’t have definitive evidence to make charges stick. I respect everyone’s opinion on this site, however it baffles me why some people take such issue with the idea that Terri is responsible for Kyron’s disapearance. Every article in the local media states that she is the person of intense scrutinty. Intense scrutinty! She has a history of being a compulsive liar. Desiree, for one, stated it clearly at a presser – a history- not just in regards to the current situation.
Perhaps everyone’s constant and continuing confusion in regards to the details of this case has to do with Terri’s ability to obfusticate – cloud over – the truth and bog every detail down with many tiny lies built upon bigger lies resting upon giant lies.
She has shown us that she manipulates and pulls men into her highly charged sexual world with the promise of????? Then she uses them. Not that she doesn’t use women too… that’s her MO – her way of being in the world.
Some people minimize or dismiss her sexting after Ky’s disappearance, but I have a different take. I think a normal response to the disappearance of your child (and I include step child here) would be a total lack of sex drive, not a hyper one. That’s an abnormal response to me. Unless she’s bipolar, which would explain LOTS. I cannot make that diagnosis, but have thought it many times. It explains the extreme highs, lows and hyper sexual acting out. It might also explain extreme hatred and manic, heightened sense of entitledness and infallibility in regards to getting caught. That’s very bipolar thinking.
Is she a sociopath? I’m leaning toward yes. They lack pangs of conscience and use people for their own purposes. They lack empathy. I’ve not seen a scintilla of empathy eminating from Terri except for herself.
My gut tells me she conspired with some dumb guy to disappear Ky. I’m so sorry to say it bluntly, but it’s my true opinion. She enticed someone to do her bidding.
Watched a program about Gary Ridgeway, the prolific Green River Serial Killer- his wife had NO CLUE. They were happily married for many years and she was in total shock when police told her. So it’s possible to be blindsided by someone you think is one person but is also a different secret person, capable of the unimaginable.
Blink … some of my last few posts are still on moderation, but others after have been posted. Am I on time-out for something? The link on the one post posted, but the details I asked about before it didn’t.
Rose says:
January 4, 2011 at 3:37 pm
http://www.mbabar.org/JudgeProfiles/MeisenheimerKeith.htm
Interesting bio, doing civic good, retiring 11 yrs after appointment, hopefully to earn some money prior to really retiring. Have seen no bios mentioning wife/kids.
I think he relied on representations in the RO in a good ol boy sense and was left holding a bag whether by le, da, or rackner. who knows who whispered “I assure you the evidence is there Judge”. Best a fresh face take control of the parties. Replacement seems adept.
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It would be great if Lea could weigh in on this.
@49. Family. I take no issue with any of your post. I do urge caution, though. Your first paragraph could be Quote No. 1 in House’s brief substantiating LE, the media, and bio parents have in concert made Terri the functional defendant and as such she should be formally cleared or immediately charged, her attys having tge right to exculpatory & inculpatory evidence. Then I’d have an attached exhibit to the brief with thousands of others’ posts from countless sites saying the same thing since early July – plus the family quotes and media stories. Then, if not cleared or charged, I’d sue LE & County.
I would love Lea’s assessment of case’s likely posture under fresh judicial eyes.
YOOHOO!!
Attorney Conner..
B
How about we chalk this one up to concern and frustration.
I can’t be everywhere all the time, I wish I could. I do not want to see Kyron’s case grow cold either, but I am not there yet.
B
@ Rose: Wow – that’s a lot of power you give me. Respectfully, I don’t see a criminal defense attorney invoking an opinion by someone who posts occasionally on a blog site and using it to exhonorate his client. I think it’s business as usual for high profile cases to be discussed in the media these days. For every opinion like mine, there’s probably a polar opposite one somewhere. What I’m saying is that anything can be exploited, but that shouldn’t stop us from stating our honest opinions.
Does anyone know who PZ is? It is a name on the list of people that were at the SF? I cannot find him in the white pages. I do find a PZ associated with a London company.
familythx says:
January 4, 2011 at 9:19 pm
(Snipped)
Perhaps everyone’s constant and continuing confusion in regards to the details of this case has to do with Terri’s ability to obfusticate – cloud over – the truth and bog every detail down with many tiny lies built upon bigger lies resting upon giant lies.
***PERHAPS we choose NOT to believe the source of the information that is being feed to us. I learned early on that I have to be careful with what KH says, how he says it, or what he omits.
For example, I really do not believe he has been “fully” briefed. IMO plus DY has said they are not given a whole lot of details.
And that he uses terms of social agreement, such as “everyone knows” and “we can all agree”
And I do not believe that LE told him that “they” have probable cause that TH was involved with kyron going missing. However the way he worded it in the restraining order made it sound that way.
(Quote)
The police have provided me(KH) with probable cause (for KH) to believe the above two statements to be true,” Horman wrote.
AGAIN: not that le said they have probable cause, KH believes there is probable cause… Big difference!
TH has never spoken, so how do you know she lies?
__________________________
“I believe Respondent (Terri) is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been missing since June 4, 2010,” Kaine stated in the filing. “I also recently learned that Respondent (Terri) attempted to hire someone to murder me. The police have provided me with probable cause to believe the above two statements to be true,” Horman wrote.
36.iodizedseasalt says:
January 4, 2011 at 1:41 pm
“about TH knowing that Desiree”s husband is LE, I think she believed(s) she is smarter.Not only in this situation but I think this is her personality. After all she has a masters degree and he is only a cop.(what I imagine coming from her) Look how she dumped her room mates bookshelf w/books out in the rain and couldn’t see anything wrong with it. Her rationale is better than everyone elses. I think now she prob believes that no one can touch her, she won’t go to jail and she’ll get her daughter back and kaine will have nothing, no Terri, no Kiara no Kyron. She will have won in her mind.”
Absolutely! If TH is the sociopath many people portray her as, I don’t think knowing TY is a cop would discourage from attempting to pull off what she may believe is the perfect crime (or arranging it). I know someone who has a personality disorder and she believes she is smarter than everyone else, including people with college degrees (which she doesn’t have). She’s made some very irrational statements, but seems to think she makes perfect sense, and then she’s always belittling other people to make them look stupid. She supposes that she knows more than someone else in their area of expertise, or that the other person just isn’t that knowledgeable about his/her field. So, I could see TH in this frame of mind, too. TH likes crime stories, she watches crime shows on TV, she participated in crime blogs. If she has a PD, she has come to believe that she is the expert and that all those people in LE looking for Kyron are complete fools.
@justice23 thankyou for the link to SKanter story. Would be great to know with Kyron missing that any and all suspicious finding would be followed up scary if they are not
Regardless of whether the judge is out or in, there’s not likely to be much difference so long as Terri Horman refuses to talk. That has nothing to do with the judge. It has to do with the nature of a family law matter where one side, essentially, gives the court nothing to work with.
Remember: The judge said that Ms. Horman would eventually need to decide whether to invoke her right to silence. She has not yet decided to “take five” (plead her Fifth Amendment right). Things may change later this week.
The court could elect to continue the abatement (and leave the entire dissolution in a state of inaction), or to go forward with calendaring the divorce.
Mr. Horman has made it clear that he does not want any further delay. However, there is no prejudice to him, should the court continue the abatement, as he already has the child and the family home. Nothing has been done with child support, but it would be fairly easy for the court to enter an order to require payment pending further order of the court.
The problem with this matter is that it started out with a temporary restraining order. Stephen Houze stated his client would not contest the restraining order. Under those circumstances, the court is limited in what it can do to modify the order. (As you may recall, Kaine Horman’s position is that by stipulating to the order, Ms. Horman waived any right to later modification of that order.)
However, a final decree of dissolution would supersede the earlier FAPA order.
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/FAPA_Benchguide_4-24-06.pdf
There are probably a lot of copies of this link in Blink’s “inbox”, but I didn’t want anyone to miss it. I’ve never heard of this being done for a missing child before, but I think it’s a great idea. I wonder if something like this will become another version of an Amber Alert soon. You MUST watch the video too, not just read the article.
http://www.kptv.com/technology/26371893/detail.html
PORTLAND, Ore. — A local company is helping in the search for Kyron Horman by sending the missing boy’s picture to cell phones around the world.
Text No More is an Android application created in Portland. Its creators say the goal of the app is to stop drivers from texting behind the wheel.
The app also sends coupons to subscribers and on Monday, it began sending pictures of Kyron.
“We’re one big community. We take care of our own,” said Rodney Stearns, the company’s founder. “This doesn’t let that memory fade away because our memories are really short when it doesn’t affect us.”
The company says it’s also donating $100 to the Kyron Horman Foundation each time a new business signs up to advertise.
Kyron was last seen June 4 at his northwest Portland grade school.
My mission today was to compare the demeanor of TH from the time she saw Andrea at Fred Meyer #2 until the time she saw Gwen Robbie/Rabe (sp?) at the gym. According to TH this was the hour and a half she spent driving around trying to calm Kiara.
So here is a link about what AL had to say:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013828-504083.html
Trouble is, I cannot find the interview of Gwen ANYWHERE. It was the one where she claims TH was exhausted.
I thought, side by side, these two statements might look interesting given the relatively short amount of time between TH’s conversations with two seperate witnesses. I am now wondering why the transcript or video of the Dateline, Searching for Kyron (Nov, 12), preempted in Portland for the B Ball game, is so hard to find. Am I losing it?
I would like to hear from Lea Conner also
She writes in a way that makes sense to me
So I hope you are reading Lea
So why doesn’t House present that motion? to be cleared or charged? There must be a reason. he is supposed to be THE criminal defense lawyer. Why hasen’t he already done that?
Also I was the one who posted about her holding her coat- go find the video She was about to get into the car annndd she looks very much slimmer than she did 5 mo earlier. No way she’s pregnant thats a real stretch cause I would think that her lawyers would somehow , some way interject that into their discussions. And so what if she’s pregnant?really in the scheme of things. It’s about finding Kyron. kyron has to be the focus. it’s as if everyone gets caught up in the intricacies of this situation and who is looking for Kyron. My heart aches so much when I think of that sweet innocent little boy.
Prayers and love today and always for Kyron. Please come home SOON!
sjso says:
January 3, 2011 at 9:41 pm
I read a lot of speculation about the glasses being Kyron’s and that there might have been a ransom note. I don’t remember, however, reading that LE and/or family had confirmed this.. does anyone has a moment to clear this up for me?
———
@sjso- Hope this will clear this up for you:
cd says:
December 19, 2010 at 2:50
Maybe RS when he heard about KY’s abduction decided he would cash in on it by writing a ransom note even though he did not actually have possession of KY. The confusing thing about that statement is then how did RS have KY’s glasses, or were the glasses really only copies of KY’s glasses like LE said at the start of the investigation.
The ransom note or alert is my opinion, not fact.
I know nothing of RS or anyone else having Kyron’s glasses, but I do personally believe they have been recovered.
B
@family….I think you are confusing the term “not guilty” with “innocent” in regards as to what some of us think about TH and her guilt or innocence. A person has to be found guilty BEYOND a reasonable doubt in a court of law. That pesky little “reasonable doubt” thingy gets me every time with this case.
So far all we think we know is that Kyron did NOT leave with TH. As long as TH keeps her mouth shut and Kyron’s body is not recovered then there is “reasonable doubt” that she’s guilty of anything other than poor judgment and unsavory morals. (Again, doesn’t mean she’s innocent, think of the famous football player/actor case if that helps)
I still can’t see her as the sex siren people try and make her out to be. To think that she has that type of power over people is way beyond my way of thinking. A manipulator by definition is someone who can influence or manage/make another person do or say something that benefits the manipulator, to manipulate is one thing, but to be able to make someone do harm to a small child is another thing altogether and would require more skills than just manipulation in my opinion.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
MariaEl:
My comment was my first instinct on a gut level. I believe the judge, knowing he was one foot into retirement, expected that bumping the hearing to January would enable LE to buy even more time for their investigation after he left the bench.
This case is not cold, IMO.
I read up a little on the new judge. Agreed that she is adept and well respected. IMO, Terri has already lost everything. Delaying the family court is a step toward the criminal trial. They can say otherwise, but let’s face it, it is.
I don’t believe anyone will really give two hoots about Terri’s rights, though, when the facts of the case emerge. To include the family court judge. Houze can be Houze all day long but he cannot run from his clients guilt.
All just my opinion.
zeus: That picture gives me the creeps because it does indeed kinda look like TMH is pregnant.
OMFG she must be thinking (if she were indeed pregnant) that she would want to have this baby without KH or anyone else knowing for fear of having another baby taken from her. The freaky thing is that it could be the child of someone other than her hubby.
And it would be pretty damned weird if the altercation on mothers day between her and RS was in some way related to the revelation that she may have been pregnant back then.
All of this is mere speculation and opinion.
(I couldn’t help myself, that pic really was creepy.)
Blink,
I desparately need your help to educate me on something.
There are quite a few peeps who continue to be arrested by MCSO for failure to register as a sex offender.
When I try to research the name (s) of these offenders, Oregon will not bring them up, Apparently it only lists the predatory offenders? Why?
How would one go about finding the others info when they are clearly not abiding by registering and not listed as predatory.
This lack of non listing of them is one step away from them re-offending, I mean seriously what does it take to finally classify them as predatory? Another incident, This just irritates the crap out of me if my assumptions of the above are correct.
Add to that , my older teenagers now think I’m crazy because of one individual who was arrested for failure to register, is now in custody, wasn’t listed on the neighborhood awareness rositer and was living 3 blocks away.
Do I care that my kids think I’m nuts, HE** NO!
In Oregon, and some other states, if they are off supervision and not classified by level, they are not in the registry. It is a dangerous and stupid rule and I do not care what anyone says, it is enough to make a pedo relocate to a state that does not list them.
B
Amy’s Sister says:
January 5, 2011 at 10:16 am
My comment was my first instinct on a gut level. I believe the judge, knowing he was one foot into retirement, expected that bumping the hearing to January would enable LE to buy even more time for their investigation after he left the bench.
I don’t believe anyone will really give two hoots about Terri’s rights, though, when the facts of the case emerge. To include the family court judge. Houze can be Houze all day long but he cannot run from his clients guilt.
———————————————————————-
I think the delay is because the new judge need to familiarize herself with the out going judges cases.
JMO How sad for our justice system in Oregon that a persons rights can be swept away in an effort to prove someone’s guilt, and solve criminal case. But sometimes I believe the above may be true.
Zeus says:
January 4, 2011 at 5:37 pm
“I can’t get it out of my head that she let really bad people(knowingly or unknowingly) congregate all around the perimeter of her family (through whatever online/offline presence she had built up)-until one day-one of those bad people broke ranks and came right in.”
________________________________
Terri was obliviously cavalier toward the sanctity of her family. The MFH plot and hate-filled emails about Kyron indicate that she..might..have wanted to off them, but my gut tells me that there is more to both those stories.. I think Terri let “bad people (knowingly or unknowingly) congregate all around the perimeter of her family” because it gave her an adrenaline rush… Board with life, living on the edge brought her the excitement she craved. Did she willingly participate in Kyron’s disappearance, or did her lifestyle backfire? Only time will tell.
Amy’s Sister… Thank you for clearing up the mystery about Kyron’s glasses.. I’m moving that rumor from my “maybe” list, to my “highly unlikely” list.
Amy’s Sister says:
January 5, 2011 at 10:16 am
I don’t believe anyone will really give two hoots about Terri’s rights, though, when the facts of the case emerge. To include the family court judge. Houze can be Houze all day long but he cannot run from his clients guilt.
~~~
If I were sitting on the grand jury and all that was presented as evidence is what is in the public arena, I would not vote to indict Terri Horman for anything. JMO
Hey sleuthers … did we give up on the RS & Associates trail? Anyone know anything about RS in jail? Can’t post what I’ve been reading unless I can verify. Any ideas?
snipped from OL interview December 04, 2010
The sheriff is pushing for something to shake loose by Feb. 1, the end of a 120-day deadline he set for the task force and when he reports to county commissioners about the status of an investigation that has cost nearly $1.4 million as of Nov. 29.
“This is a marathon, not a sprint,” Capt. Jason Gates said.
They point to one undeniable fact: They lack any physical evidence of Kyron, or physical evidence that links anyone to his disappearance.
And, with “not one shred of evidence to indicate the child has died,” Staton said, investigators must push forward as though Kyron is still alive.
“Barring an unexpected evidentiary development,” said Norm Frink, Multnomah County chief deputy district attorney, “the investigation is going to continue for months.”
~~~
these are not ambiquious statements from public officials …
“They point to one undeniable fact: They lack any physical evidence of Kyron, or physical evidence that links anyone to his disappearance.”
“not one shred of evidence to indicate the child has died,”
“the investigation is going to continue for months.”
Kimberly says:
January 5, 2011 at 11:46 am
I understand where your coming from, however one of the many things I have become aware of since Kyron went missing is that the FBI is taking ACTION on these predators. It is not happening just in Oregon it is across the nation. Im not sure if there was this much activity prior, only that I was not aware of it. I am excited that my tax dollars are being well spent on something that I am so passionate about. Getting these pervs off the streets.
From my neck of the woods. Former officer charged in sex sting was active in Scouts
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/31/2552979/man-charged-in-sex-sting-was-active.html
(snipped)
“Oh, my Lord, I can’t believe this,” Kotzman said today as he read an online newspaper article about Duncan’s arrest. “Who is going to suspect a guy who is both a cop and on the school board?”
Also today, Don Ledford with the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Kansas City, said the investigation is in its early stages. The charge filed Thursday still needs to be presented to a grand jury.
Ledford said he was not at liberty to discuss details of the investigation. But he said the U.S. attorney has asked that Duncan be held without bond until trial.
A hearing is scheduled Wednesday, and the court already has indicated that Duncan may need a public defender, Ledford said.
Duncan’s troubles became public late last month after a relative of an 18-year-old contacted law enforcement about sexually oriented chats that allegedly occurred between the teen and Duncan.
The FBI then set up online chats with Duncan and “Alex,” who actually was an undercover officer.
Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/31/2552979/man-charged-in-sex-sting-was-active.html#ixzz1ABRTqCGy
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@cbickel who said:
cbickel says:
January 5, 2011 at 9:05 am
@family….I think you are confusing the term “not guilty” with “innocent” in regards as to what some of us think about TH and her guilt or innocence. A person has to be found guilty BEYOND a reasonable doubt in a court of law. That pesky little “reasonable doubt” thingy gets me every time with this case.
C, I’m pretty clear on the diff, in fact I stated that I think LE doesn’t have enough evidence to charge her yet. That doesn’t mean they won’t. I think we, the interested sleuthy public doesn’t know most of waht LE knows. I think the OJ case is a really good example of how a bit of doubt (reasonable? notso sure) can be manufactured if one has enough money for an entire dream team of the very best criminal defense attorneys. His DNA matched – it doesn’t get much clearer. But the odd glove thing and a racially biased jury acquitted him. In LA, opinions were strongly divided by race. In fact I was on jury duty in the room right next door and had to go thru 2 metal detectors and watched the zoo/parade/media circus feed on this for the two weeks I served. I’m not saying Terri will get convicted, I’m simply expressing an opinion, based on decades of diagnosing psychiatric disorders, including sociopathy, bipolar disorder,addiction, etc….
50.zeus says:
January 4, 2011 at 6:49 pm
sjso says:
January 3, 2011 at 9:41 pm
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That photo of TH looking PG was one I posted. Here is the link again so you can see it:
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=129366054945675100
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Took me a while to find it again myself! It was a view I had never seen of TH and it seems odd the way she is holding her hand on her stomach. Another poster suggested she was holding her coat closed, but that’s not what it looks like to me. This pic would have been in November.
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I do not believe Terri is pregnant I believe she may have been trying to cover her stomach because her bullet proof vest may have bulged a bit. I would personally bet she was wearing one, I would be…
@family…you know what got me with OJ? It wasn’t the glove, it was the EDTA found in the blood they did DNA on. That’s what put the doubt in my mind.
I think we are agreed on who we think is the guilty party in Kyron’s case, I just want it proven beyond a resonable doubt and as of yet, for what we “know”, it can’t be proven…yet.
Lets keep in mind as well that while we don’t know all the evidence LE has, we also are not privy to anything that TH’s attorney is discussing or has discussed with LE up to this point.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
@19.puzzled says:
January 5, 2011 at 12:02 pm
Amy’s Sister says:
January 5, 2011 at 10:16 am
I don’t believe anyone will really give two hoots about Terri’s rights, though, when the facts of the case emerge. To include the family court judge. Houze can be Houze all day long but he cannot run from his clients guilt.
~~~
If I were sitting on the grand jury and all that was presented as evidence is what is in the public arena, I would not vote to indict Terri Horman for anything. JMO
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If LE doesn’t know anymore than the general public they ought to be “fired”. I surely hope that isn’t the case given all the time and $$ to bring this to a conclusion. My fear is that the conclusion they come to might not be sufficient to indict anyone at this point in time.
Re Terri being pg: I think historically she got pregnant to solidify a relationship (I’ve known a few women who coerce their guys into marriage or committment that way) and no way will she get pg unless it behooves her. All of course, moo, but I think she wouldn’t think twice about terminating an unwanted pg’cy, and I can’t think of a single reason she’d want another child right now- she didn’t want to take care of the ones she had.
@ 11.Amy’s Sister says:
January 5, 2011 at 10:16 am
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Thanks, Amy’s Sister. I appreciate you responding. I see your reasoning now.
I keep hoping that LE does in fact have so much more than what we know. I just can’t accept the fact that so much time, so much money, and still no arrest…. and… still no Kyron. I just can’t accept that he won’t be found or that we would never know what happened to him. God willing, there will be some light shed on this dark dark case.
God be with you, Kyron. You are in the hearts of many, always.
@PDXRitchie: Come to think of it, you might be right about the photo of TMH. I would have sworn that she had a monitor on her arm like people wear when under house arrest. I often felt like her movements were an attempt to mask things like that. A bullet proof vest is def a good theory as well because I would wager there are many people who would love to put a bullet in her.
JMHO
21.puzzled says:
January 5, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Hey sleuthers … did we give up on the RS & Associates trail? Anyone know anything about RS in jail? Can’t post what I’ve been reading unless I can verify. Any ideas?
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LMAO, I swear we must be in the same room, should I see you
while sleuthing away, I will wave and say, “HEY” nice to see you here as well.
I haven’t been able to vet anything as of yet!
I know Blink has said that she believes Kyron’s glasses have been recovered and if that is true I feel that does not bode well for little Kyron. But as far as the picture of the glasses being Kyrons they may well be his glasses but not the pair he had on that day. My little boy(9)has worn glasses for several years and I can tell you little boys who need glasses also need extra/spare/backup glasses. Right now my son has 4 pair. So I don’t understand why it matters so much if the ones in the photo are his or just “like” the ones he was wearing that day as much as finding out if they did find the ones he was wearing June 4. I think most of us agree that if Blink puts something out there it must be correct. Right? Am I missing something else about the glasses?
@familythx
“wouldn’t think twice about terminating an unwanted pg’cy”
“she didn’t want to take care of the ones she had”
You are making some pretty strong statements regarding TH. I have never heard anyone say she didn’t want to take care of the children she had.
Where are you getting your information?
Remember, her children will grow up and possible research all this information, we cant go making things things up. What if she is one of the people LE has eliminated?
familythx says:
January 5, 2011 at 3:48 pm
Re Terri being pg: I think historically she got pregnant to solidify a relationship (I’ve known a few women who coerce their guys into marriage or committment that way) and no way will she get pg unless it behooves her. All of course, moo, but I think she wouldn’t think twice about terminating an unwanted pg’cy, and I can’t think of a single reason she’d want another child right now- she didn’t want to take care of the ones she had.
@Familythx
Well Portland had a cold spell and we all got our coats out of our cars
You should have been here
I kind of thought Terri likes a child around to play the mommy show
On face book
Just my opinion here
23.Midwest Mom says:
January 5, 2011 at 1:01 pm
Kimberly says:
January 5, 2011 at 11:46 am
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ABSOLUTELY SICKENING!!! It pizzes me off to
no end, and to think these people (although thats not what I want to call them,) have rights? WTH
This is such an extremely hot topic for me, and blows my mind that there isn’t ways in which this is handled differently.
This is what pizzes me off about the Ky case. What the hell are they doing? waiting for a re-offense? I sure the heck hope not, If they (MCSO) would just ask the public for help, wholly crap there would be no where for SZ to go. Wouldn’t that be awesome to have him where he needs to be? (pretty room with bars on it), Exquisite meals and the threat from other inmates who don’t much take a liking to people who prey on children.
Whewwwwww ok, sorry, I guess it’s obvious where my frustration lies.
So what happened to RS
And SZ
What we going talk about 3 more months people
Any ideas
19.puzzled says:
January 5, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Hey sleuthers … did we give up on the RS & Associates trail? Anyone know anything about RS in jail? Can’t post what I’ve been reading unless I can verify. Any ideas?
*****
puzzled,
I wonder if you are referring to someone who was arrested both June 29th and December 30th? I have watched that and looked at some things but nothing I can verify either. First initial J, middle initial L?
Going out on a limb here… can anyone offer any ideas as to why Kaine might NOT have a hand in this, without telling me all about Terri and what SHE did or did not do? I am not saying I think he is guilty (still sitting back and watching – have no money on anyone in this race, so to speak). I guess I am curous why so few people seem to cast any doubt his direction. I want to know as much about him as we (you) have uncovered about Terri. Why couldn’t he be involved? (without talking about Terri.)
Blog sites have probably taken jury consulting to a new level. Even if there is an arrest right now, based on the posts we read, what are the chances for a conviction? Unless there is a smoking gun, I say zip.
I have looked at things from both sides of the fence and IMO there are a few of things that I cannot get past with TH. Unless she can explain the doctor’s appointment, what she was really doing from the time she was at FM#2 and the gym and why her hands are tied in the civil case because she will be giving up her 5th amendment rights, then I am suspicious.
The judge would instruct me, as a juror, that TH has no obligation to prove herself innocent. This seems to be a circumstantial case and how could the jury convict someone without any proof, and evidence? That is the real question now, where the heck is the evidence? How did ANYONE remove a child from a public school and not leave a trace?
Without a trace, leads me to believe he walked out of the school.
It seems as though the MFH and the abduction are intertwined in LE’s investigation. IF TH were guilty of the first and not the second, then wouldn’t the defense work out a deal, or are they trying to get her off of both charges, one she maybe guilty of and the other not? Would she, could she save herself at the expense of her son?
And, why, why, why, after the sting, did the DA take over the case?
@cbickel: We do agree on what’s important. I want the same thing you want: to have it proved beyond a reasonable doubt. I’m also glad we can disagree on small points respectfully, and I thank you for that.
I don’t want to dwell on the OJ case, but since it’s been brought up, it’s pretty much common knowledge in LA that he got off because he had a ton of money and had an entire team working to create that reasonable doubt about the DNA. Lots of expert witnesses. My DH has been an expert witness re: substance abuse/addiction in many trials. Each side looks for “experts” who will skew their opinions to their side. My DH would get more legal work if he’d do that (lol) but he doesn’t, he explains technical aspects of drugs, impairment and drug testing, and translates it so juries can understand. I guess I’m trying to say that money buys the law for some. Someone told me once: justice is for philosophers, the court of law is for lawyers. Terri might have one good attorney but I doubt she can buy her way out of this case if she is guilty.
familythx says:
January 5, 2011 at 3:48 pm
I can’t think of a single reason she’d want another child right now- she didn’t want to take care of the ones she had.
——————————————
@family
True but I also remember reading in various places that Terri had always wanted a little girl so God only knows whether getting PG with Kiara was a snare, an accident, or on purpose for her own selfish reasons. But maybe Kiara truly was just a means to an end for her … like it appears too many people out there in TMH’s life were to her. Kiara was a way to perhaps ensnare Kaine in some way?
FWIW, there is also something very therapeutic (as well as very emotionally overwhelming at the same time) bearing your 1st biological child that is the same sex as you are when you’re adopted. So where it may seem she didn’t want to take care of any of the children she already had, it may possibly be that she just didn’t want to take care of the “male” children she had but a daughter would be somewhat different for her. Just surmising is all based on her appearing to dote on Kiara from what I have seen versus her son James and Kyron. In the past I have seriously wondered if TMH wasn’t quite honestly a male-hater as she has never seemed to think too much about the men in her life except for perhaps to use them in some way.
It was emotional having my son and he was our very first, but still nothing compared to the emotional upheaval I felt when I had my first girls after him. You wouldn’t believe the places my mind/thoughts went with finally having a little girl … I was a complete mess for mths after and not because I wanted to be. They brought back memories of myself as a child except they had what I didn’t … a history, a biological connection, medical background, solid roots and a life of always knowing who and where they came from, which can be lonely and very powerful at times. Most people just naturally take those things for granted because they have no idea what it feels like to wonder and question everything about themselves all their lives.
My simple point for all of this is that, for whatever reason TMH ended up pregnant with Kiara (when Kaine said they had allegedly agreed not to have anymore children beforehand), she seemed to dote all over her versus the secret feelings she is said to have harbored for Kyron. It honestly seems as if TMH has a real issue with men in general looking at her track record with them.
First she is said to have cheated on and divorces 2 previous husbands, wrecks DY’s home by having an affair with her husband while she’s pregnant w/Ky who she later steals away, then later allegedly wants to kill and get rid of, then she sends James away, and not long after, Ky suddenly just disappears as if into thin air. It’s literally like the eraser-mentality. POOF! and it’s like all the men in her life she no longer likes or has a need for are just tossed aside, thrown out, re-located or about to get eliminated through an alleged MFH plot. Whether guilty in this case or not, she really sounds a lot like an eraser type of sociopath to me … sadly there are too many of those women out there. Discovery ID just had a half-hour show on women that killed the fathers of their own children simply because they didn’t want to split the assets. Completely amazed at how easily some people seem to be able to arrive at murder as a solution to their problems, although maybe I shouldn’t be. I can’t imagine even being able to get close to that mindset, let alone actually being serious about it. Is TMH one of those women who just didn’t want to split the assets and so wanted to off her husband so that could be avoided and she’d get everything? Totally twisted if that has anything to do with it.
Would love to know more about what TMH was like WHEN she found out she was pregnant with Kiara, did she know early on it would be a girl and how was her behavior while she was pregnant with her 1st little girl as well as mths after? Would be interesting to know. If TMH and Kaine had in fact agreed not to have anymore children as Kaine has stated in interviews, is it possible at some point while she was pregnant with Kiara that Kaine casually or otherwise made some kind of comment after-the-fact about not wanting another baby and that set TMH’s motivations/destructive behavior in motion? Motive for the MFH plot … if it in fact ever happened?
TMH was quoted last summer as stating that Kaine had “really hurt her”. None of us ever had any idea what might’ve preceded that but wondering now if maybe he could’ve outright told her at some point that he didn’t want anymore children and maybe she originally had other plans? If so, was it before or after he already knew she was pregnant with Kiara? Just speculating here, but if that might’ve been the reason for some of the arguments, behavior/personality changes Kaine mentioned in the past, I can kinda see dots gradually being connected regarding many of TMH’s strange and reckless behavior after-the-fact in regard to the alleged MFH plot, the emotional divulgings to her friends, the self-destructive behavior, the hiring of the landscaper behind his back, her feelings for/toward Kyron and Kaine, etc. TMH definitely seemed to treat and respond to Kitty differently than she did Kyron … at least from everything I have seen over the mths researching and watching this case unfold.
Was Kitty her “golden child” … her “mini-me?” At times, TMH seems to think so and be very proud of this fact on top of it. Did Kaine un-knowingly insult or undermine her pregnancy with Kitty in some way mths before which later brought out her darker side and desire to rid herself of him (and Kyron?) If TMH sees herself and her own life thru Kitty at all and someone undermines or insults anything having to do with her or TMH even having her, I can just see Terri taking it way personally and coming apart at the seams because of it. All just MOO of course … thinking out loud earlier and this just kinda came to me out of nowhere. Sorry so long … thinking way too much today I guess.
Yet another day gone by and still no Kyron … where are you little guy?
3.justice23 says:
January 4, 2011 at 5:58 pm
RE: the bloody sock on the trail by Bend story http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/07/web_exclusive_a_bloody_find_an.html
@justice23- We discussed this particular story long ago here. IMHO it is just that – a story. One that LE and everyone else was made aware of and I’d like to think it was eventually checked out by LE. FWIW, it’s not unusual to find articles of clothing and misc. trash on hiking trails, because some people just don’t give a chit about littering. A bloody sock could = a blood blister from a hiking boot. I’ve never heard another peep about it.
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24.puzzled says:
January 5, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Hey sleuthers … did we give up on the RS & Associates trail? Anyone know anything about RS in jail? Can’t post what I’ve been reading unless I can verify. Any ideas?
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@puzzled – Why can’t you post it as a rumor with a link or something like that? I haven’t heard anything about RS in the media for months and have never tracked him down as being in any LE facility or anywhere else for that matter. He’s like a ghost…wish I could help more. Maybe someone else can, we all know I’m not the brightest bulb in the lamp when it comes to sleuthing!
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MockingbirdSings says:
December 24, 2010 at 2:15 am
IMO, a “smart” criminal would prefer to have his name ON the roster to legitimize himself as part of the families and other supporters of the SF rather than be seen and appear to be hiding that fact – unless, of course, he was an SO who wandered in off the forest trails, which seems highly unlikely to me since I think he would have been arrested by now, at least for coming into the school. MOO
This suspect zero thinks he is smarter than any mere LEO, he hides in plain site.
B
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Someone was asking about this…sight or site? I caught it too, IMO it was not a typo.
LE does not know if Kyron is alive or dead. Ergo, they can’t know what happened to him. They really can’t know he is not out there in the wooded areas around Skyline and was missed in the searches. I can’t imagine what they could have ruled out by now. It is still possible a stranger took him; it is still possible Terri did, without anyone seeing her; it is still possible a sex-offender took him. It is still possible a school employee did something to him. It is still possible someone who knows Terri or Kaine had their eye on Kyron for some sick reason. LE may have emails and texts up the you know what, but unless those emails or texts say here is what I am going to do with Kyron and I did it, not sure where we are here.
@Kimberly
@Ode
high five to you both … RS & Associates have moved off the sleuthing radar screen for some reason … need to keep our collective eyes on this.