Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Related Posts
Related Posts:
6,473 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
@ NelMel says:
January 8, 2011 at 9:55 am
Nel, I had not read that statement by KyH. That does sound as if a type of location for KyH might be known, but if they know the profile of the perp then they are probably aware of the horrific things that could be/have happened to KyH.
@ Shelly says:
January 7, 2011 at 11:34 pm
Regarding the Pastor I mentioned early this morning. Thank you for Neighbor and Astaria for clarifying for me. One other question though…what is going on at Sunset? Pastor has been on leave, possibly not coming back – to be decided by Commission?
According to remarks on the church FB site there was a meeting on 11/17/2010 at which time “rumors” that were circulating the church were discussed and members were asked to discontinue the gossip. The pastor has been on leave since at least that time, apparently awaiting a reply from the (commission). It would certainly be interesting to know what those rumors are.
I hope this is not OT but thought it was worth mentioning, as follow-up to Shelley’s comments.
This incident occurred at an elementary school that is 1.5 hours away from Multnomah County.
Tony Phipps – Sex Offender
* Arrested in St. Helen’s for trying to abduct 5th Grader on 6/7/2010 from Lewis & Clark Elementary School (St. Helen’s)
* 36 y/o, homeless
* Phipps was booked in Columbia County Jail under suspicion of attempted kidnapping, harassment and violating his post-prison supervision.
* His criminal history includes convictions for third-degree sodomy in 1998, contributing to the sexual delinquency of a minor in 2000 and failing to register as a sex offender in 2003, 2006 and 2008.
~~~~~
http://www.kptv.com/news/23844843/detail.html
Poster Man for why the RSO laws do not protect our children.
When was he arrested and is he still in custody?
B
I apologize if this was previously discussed, I missed it. Apparently, the FBI is investigating whether Tony Phipps is connected to the KyH case:
http://primewriter.com/news-1246-headlines/2010/06/09/kyron-horman-case-update-man-arrested-for-attempted-kidnapping-in-oregon-fbi-investigates-connection/
beejay says:
January 8, 2011 at 8:02 am
I don’t want to disillusion anyone about the value of “fixing” Oregon’s laws here, or about the value of already having a more encompassing federal law. BUT, if you read the OR Supreme Court ruling, you’ll realize that the problem is in getting a conviction. That sticks.
The same arguments used by the 2 OR defense attys can be used at the federal level.
In both of these OR cases, these defendants were up to something more than viewing images on the screen. Those crimes are more easily pursued in court, assuming you have evidence.
I hope OR will change their laws. But, in reality, having a law in place does not equate to a conviction that will stick.
——————
Thanks Beejay. Good to hear from you. That’s what I was trying to show by letting people read part of the federal law.
Unless you keep your computer totally protected and never take a laptop anywhere, never have friends over, repairmen, remodelers, maids who have a key to use, etc., there could be enough doubt about someone to allow them to go free even if everyone is convinced you did it. I am not trying to throw suspicion on any profession, of course, just saying a computer owner may not have as much control as he or she thinks.
I know people say you have to intentionally “go there” to have something download, but that is not necessarily true. If your computer is not properly protected, just the difference between .org and .com in typing an address can get you to very different places unexpectedly, or a slight variation in the spelling. As one of the articles said, most people intentionally looking for these sites are not content with a simple view. They copy to a CD, add to favorites, print, intend to sell, etc., so the issue described with these laws never comes up, and their intent is clear.
I am glad this has come up, however. I believe it will help us to be more careful, more vigilant, and pay more attention to how our laws are written – sort of like reading the fine print in your insurance policy to be sure what protections you really do have.
from True Nelson recent post
True Answer: The circumstances of this case seem to indicate that Kyron was transported out of the area. He disappeared too quickly and too cleanly.
There are over 5,000 posts on this thread now. We’ve discussed everything from RS and associates to preachers to SO’s, SZ’s and decisions handed down by Oregon’s Supreme Court.
We’ve been told everything from “best.thread.ever” to somebody chomping on the bit to say “I told you so.” (My synopses not a real quote…sorry)
Are we any closer to finding Kyron? No, sadly we are not. Is it coincidence that the next court date is in the month of March…not to me, that’s when spring thaw starts, that’s when lots of “things” tend to be found. Morbid I know, but honestly what is left to think?
Thoughts and prayers are as always; with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
Blink says:
..but I completely agree that if I were a resident, I would be more up in arms,… (snip)
———————
Blink, believe me, we ARE up in arms – as is our attorney general. Even the Supreme Court judges did an unusual thing by asking our lawmakers to examine laws in other states to use as guidelines to strengthen the existing laws on behalf of children.
Yes, and thank you for balancing the discussion with that information. For the record, that decision would bother me anywhere, but in a jurisdiction I feel is already lax in it’s laws and reporting of sex offenders, it upsets me doublely.
B
Mother Hen says:
Quite the contrary. I am one of those who has been jumping up and down about how things REALLY ARE HERE — but yet met with much discontent. That is not my fault nor problem.
I do not hold any of you in true ill-regard. But I do hope this serves as a huge lesson for future relations of any kind. Not everyone is full of it.
————————————–
With all due respect, you are misinformed about how things “REALLY ARE HERE”, relative to this case.
Instead of using the initial Oregon Supreme Court decision to cast the good people of Oregon and their state in a negative light, it would have been helpful to share the entire story, such as how our Attorney General has an agreement with the US Justice Department to ensure the crimes of viewing child pornography will still be prosecuted in Oregon.
It would have been helpful to share that the Attorney General will introduce a bill on the first day of the legislative session to ensure the existing law’s loophole is closed.
It would have been helpful to state that even the Supreme Court judges voting in the majority suggested how the loophole in the current law might be closed.
by KGW Staff
Posted on January 8, 2011 at 10:49 AM
PORTLAND — Oregon Attorney General John Kroger is working to close a loophole in the state’s child pornography law that makes it legal to view such material.
Friday the Oregon Supreme Court ruled that while downloading child pornography is a crime, viewing it is not.
“We have an agreement with the US Justice Department to discuss how together we can make sure that these cases are prosecuted because, of course, viewing child pornography is still illegal under federal law,” Kroger said Friday.
He plans to introduce a bill on the first day of the legislative session so the state can close the loophole.
Well we have mothers against drunk driving
what is needed is mothers against child porn
@MBS
they transfered that janitor GRRR
Nancy,
I respect your opinions, but I don’t necessarily agree with them. First off, and very important, I said nothing about the “good people of Oregon.”
There is no erasing the Court’s initial decision, which is an irresponsible one.
There is no erasing the way things are in Oregon’s public schools, which I have presented on a few occassions. Kyron Horman disappeared from an Oregon public school where there is a history of teachers getting away with things they should not — and being allowed to STILL teach and be around children.
There is no erasing the history of failed leadership when it comes to minors. I know my Oregon history (not getting into particulars) — do you?
The decision was instult on top of injury. Period.
=============================================
With all due respect, you are misinformed about how things “REALLY ARE HERE”, relative to this case.
Instead of using the initial Oregon Supreme Court decision to cast the good people of Oregon and their state in a negative light, it would have been helpful to share the entire story, such as how our Attorney General has an agreement with the US Justice Department to ensure the crimes of viewing child pornography will still be prosecuted in Oregon.
It would have been helpful to share that the Attorney General will introduce a bill on the first day of the legislative session to ensure the existing law’s loophole is closed.
It would have been helpful to state that even the Supreme Court judges voting in the majority suggested how the loophole in the current law might be closed.
by KGW Staff
Posted on January 8, 2011 at 10:49 AM
PORTLAND — Oregon Attorney General John Kroger is working to close a loophole in the state’s child pornography law that makes it legal to view such material.
Friday the Oregon Supreme Court ruled that while downloading child pornography is a crime, viewing it is not.
“We have an agreement with the US Justice Department to discuss how together we can make sure that these cases are prosecuted because, of course, viewing child pornography is still illegal under federal law,” Kroger said Friday.
He plans to introduce a bill on the first day of the legislative session so the state can close the loophole.
Blink says:
…but in a jurisdiction I feel is already lax in it’s laws and reporting of sex offenders, it upsets me doublely.
——————–
Thank you Blink was pointing this out. Now that we have the Attorney General’s attention, it would be a prime opportunity for Oregonians to pressure him to also present a bill to strengthen the reporting laws etc., in order to protect our children from child predators.
@Beejay …
curious to learn if your thinking is the same post travel as pre-travel?
22.Nancy says:
January 7, 2011 at 11:11 pm
There are nearly 4,000,000 residents living in Oregon. As in every other state, the vast majority of Oregonians are wonderful, giving, hard-working, compassionate people. Portland is friendly, beautiful, wonderful place to call home and raise a family.
~~~
Nancy is absolutely correct!! and those of us who are not pedophiles or otherwise morally dementated are outraged at what goes on in our State.
IDK where Tony Phipps is now. Not shown in Oregon prison locator. But, after the attempted abduction of the boy on June 8, he was released before too long. Because on Aug 18 he was out wandering around in Columbia:
“Aug. 18 – A caller stated there were people arguing behind the building of his business at 800 Port Ave. in St. Helens. Law enforcement arrived on scene and located one suspect. Tony Phipps, 36, of St. Helens was booked and released on charges of criminal trespass I and II, and offensive littering.”
http://www.thechronicleonline.com/news/for_the_record/article_1d913782-b605-11df-a545-001cc4c002e0.html
_______________
Doesn’t really sound like the well-organized Ky grabber guy to me.
Oh my, puzzled. Can I get back to you on that? Oh–maybe you did a “screen-capture” of what my earlier thinking was? LOL.
My future itinerary has not yet been set either. Had to get home to attend to some family things that came up and needed to fly before the weather set in at home–expected tonite.
*****************
As to a loose end, I’d appreciate anyone’s help who’s willing and able on this detail: what is the earliest date on which it was announced that Jamie Mejia and Ubaldo Sanchez-Mejia were missing?
Earliest I’ve got on hand is around June 16, 2010, which is earlier than I remembered.
Links:
http://essentialu.typepad.com/my_weblog/2010/06/wordless-wednesday-missing-person-jamie-mejia-ubaldo-sanchezmejia.html
http://beonthelookoutfor.com/modules.php?name=missing&idd=693
________
Also interesting site where I found more detail on those missing kids than elsewhere. If you look around the site you find this 501(c) corp. works in conjunction with a TV station. I compared a number of their posted missing child cases with the more standard missing announcements we see and there’s always more detail at this site. The site posted this additional detail about Elsy’s kids:
“May times we may tell you that children may be with their other parent. It may start out that way but when we ask for your help, the children may be hidden with someone else to throw us off. Please call if you know anything.”
link: http://kcchildsearch.com/child237.html
Just interesting.
Bam, Malty! You are so right on.
@ Malty says:
January 9, 2011 at 2:45 am
Well we have mothers against drunk driving
what is needed is mothers against child porn
Jden says:
January 8, 2011 at 9:56 pm
I apologize if this was previously discussed, I missed it. Apparently, the FBI is investigating whether Tony Phipps is connected to the KyH case:
http://primewriter.com/news-1246-headlines/2010/06/09/kyron-horman-case-update-man-arrested-for-attempted-kidnapping-in-oregon-fbi-investigates-connection/
———————————————-
WOW that’s even in the same general area as Skyline.
Blink, TP was originally held but then let go for insufficient evidence, despite there being an adult witness and testimony from the child.
“Tony Phipps, 36, was arrested June 9 on a number of varying charges, including harassment, attempted kidnapping and violating probation. Those charges were dropped because Berg said investigators could not prove that Phipps’ behaviors were criminal.”
Tp is a registered sex offender with history of felony sodomy and others.
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=127672511075346900
@ Poster Man for why the RSO laws do not protect our children.
When was he arrested and is he still in custody?
B
This is coming back to me now, I remember this.
Not our guy.
B
Um, and maybe each of us, in this attempt at preventing the rape of our children, might start close at home–or church. Just thinking about Timur, as an ex of a registered sexual predator, and how much of his access to real live kids–as opposed to pictures on the screen–was thru his church. Yes, he was excommunicated from LDS long ago.
But, there sits Sunset Presbyterian, so close to Lake Oswego/Beaverton, and one of Timur’s recent registered addys. With a huge congregation and an active evangelical approach. IDK their current size, but in 2000 they reported 2300 members, with an average of 40 visitors each sunday. Lots of new faces in church.
I think all our churches need to be familiar with the faces of the local RSOs, don’t ya’ll? Are we all too busy to help with that? Call your own minister and crank up the printing presses, Mothers. Very little administrative overhead; no organization to form or membership records to keep.
Surely this is God’s work.
30.beejay says:
About Jared Harrell. Most states are so backed up that the lag time after LE was given his computer and discs by his roommates to actual examination of that evidence is typical. Again, because of resource constraints.
But there is hope. A lot of federal money has come available to states for their crime labs, especially in the area of child exploitation. Last year my home state’s Bureau of Investigation (FBI-equivalent at state level) sought and obtained fed money by renaming one of their units to include the words “Child Exploitation”. By doing so, they were able to expand that unit’s staff from 3 to 10. And to reduce their estimated lag time for examining digital forensic evidence from NINE months to THREE months. And, that’s quite an accomplishment.
And, that’s pretty typical for states. And, in Jared’s case LE had sent his computer to the state crime lab. That’s why it took so long to know what was on his computer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for the info, Beejay. Huge accomplishmnt indeed!
In an effort to protect our most innocent and weak, I would not mind seeing a law written outlining how much evidence is needed to hold a suspect in crimes involving children. In the case of Jared Harrell, there were numerous downloads of child porn on his computer that could not have required too much forensic analyzing because his roommates found them easily. Not to mention the CD’s with all the downloads on them, some of which were images he took himself of a known toddler girl, one even titled “Toddler Insertion”.
When the evidence is so clear that not only is he guilty but that he’s likely to continue to harm children it just does not make sense that it would take seven months, at least to me.
If someone were caught with a kilo of cocaine in their possession, the ramification would be swift.
___________________________________________________________
Should laws be written changing the level of rights given to perpetrators against babies versus rights given to anyone else. I’m okay if those that harm children are treated differently than any other segment of the population. I don’t fear that would lead to the devolvement of all individual rights as this segment of the population is so clearly sick and unable to be changed.
I have a three time offending uncle who abused drugs and robbed banks. He was by some miracle released. He is now clean (many years) and manages freeway construction crews for the state of MD. He changed.
For someone so vile as to seek out the chance to harm babies, that feed and thrive off of the pain, embarrassment, and death of our youngest and most innocent, they IMO cannot be changed. It’s done. I’t become who they are. It’s beyond just their actions, it is them, the fabric of their being. Put them away forever.
How’s about them JETS?
lol
J E T S, Jets Jets Jets.
To My J’s- get your heads on now.
To my beloved Rex ( and yes, I have lovely feet so listen up):
You are HIRED by the people above ya’
You are FIRED by the people below ya’
Fortune 50 or Football, same deal.
Blink
#41 Beejay – Here is the hyperlink for source I was reading from
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sunset-Presbyterian-Church/62475756519?v=wall&filter=3 ) -(these were posts and feedback they were deleted – but still able to view).
Jden says:
January 8, 2011 at 9:50 pm
This incident occurred at an elementary school that is 1.5 hours away from Multnomah County.
Tony Phipps – Sex Offender
* Arrested in St. Helen’s for trying to abduct 5th Grader on 6/7/2010 from Lewis & Clark Elementary School (St. Helen’s)
* 36 y/o, homeless
* Phipps was booked in Columbia County Jail under suspicion of attempted kidnapping, harassment and violating his post-prison supervision.
* His criminal history includes convictions for third-degree sodomy in 1998, contributing to the sexual delinquency of a minor in 2000 and failing to register as a sex offender in 2003, 2006 and 2008.
~~~~~
http://www.kptv.com/news/23844843/detail.html
Poster Man for why the RSO laws do not protect our children.
When was he arrested and is he still in custody?
B
—————————-
Phipps does not appear to be incarcerated now. He was arrested June 9th and the questions about his possible association with Kyron’s case were numerous in the papers and, as I recall, on BOC at the time all this was going on – which was last June. I’m sure LE investigated him thoroughly then.
There was no proof to charge him with any felony. I believe he was charged with harassment. Even if he was charged with failure to register as a sex offender again, I doubt if he would have gotten more than 30/60/90 days in jail.
The boy was walking home from school according to most reports, not at the school (no excuse intended). He could have said he was hoping to get the backpack and looking for food, money, or something to sell. Certainly, he could have been trying to abduct the boy, but there is no evidence of that. I couldn’t find a report of what he said, so he probably didn’t say anything. He was living in a tent in the area and when the boy slapped his hands, he just walked away (no vehicle involved).
All of his known offenses were against one female victim at the ages of 13, 14, and 16. It sounds like supervision was lacking in more than one place by more than one person for him to be able to repeat offenses toward the same victim like that. He was considered a low level risk to reoffend. His last offense with his victim was in 2000. Later offenses were all “failure to register”.
It is very hard to keep track of sex offenders if they don’t have family who will take them in. It’s very difficult to get a job or housing, if not impossible. There are almost no treatment or job/housing programs here that accept SO’s compared to those for drug/alcohol addicts and there is always a waiting list for any program. You have to have an address so you can’t go in and register when living in a tent. If we want to know where they are, we are going to have to either keep them in prison beyond what their sentences call for, or set up housing such as a “men only, low income, no internet” apartment or a co-op farm, and provide supervision and work.
IF we are going to deal with these offenders as we do now, we have to accept some of the responsibility for their failure to get a job and a place to live (since we don’t offer either one) and either fix it or change it. I know many people want much harsher punishments, but I don’t think that’s going to happen in this country anytime soon, particularly for cases like this.
Mockingbird Sings-
with much respect, over my dead ass will I take responsibility for a pedophile not being able to find a job because of their offenses and registry status.
WHAT I GLADLY WILL take responsibility for, is for my tax dollars to contribute to an earmark or even on a local level to provide detained and monitored housing including food and shelter for them, provided they agree to be monitored via GPS along with the conditions of their parole, and their public registry.
I would love for Grace In the Hills to weigh in on this from a professional perspective. In her work, I am positive she has seen escalations manifested in violence to a child by such individuals.
I apologize in advance, for such a harsh opinion, except, no I don’t.
Pedophiles are untreatable, unable to be rehabilitated offenders *waiting*wanting* planning* to re-offend.
B
They are the real-life boogey-men (people) in our society.
14.Mother Hen says:
January 9, 2011 at 11:09 am
(snip)>
I know my Oregon history (not getting into particulars) — do you?
The decision was instult on top of injury. Period
************************************************************
Do we REALLLLLLLY need to go through this harsh debate and negativeness, AGAIN?
I swear this is ridiculous!
More importantly, How does any of this kind of crap help find KYROn?
WTH cares who’s right and who’s wrong, we are all here to help and learn.
Sheesh.
I gave it all the latitude I intend to, I agree that our debate needs to remain constructive and never personal to the poster.
B
Poster Man for why the RSO laws do not protect our children.
When was he arrested and is he still in custody?
B
***********************
snip>
After police released information to the public about the incident, a public works employee spotted Phipps on Wednesday and noticed he met the description provided by officers. Phipps was then arrested on a harassment charge.
http://www.kptv.com/news/23844843/detail.html
*******************
I’m not finding him in the Registry, (go figure) nor in jail?
http://sexoffenders.oregon.gov/SorPublic/Web.dll/main
@ 18. Malty. Which janitor? The system of contracting out these services to a private MR business or something rather than PPS retain their own staff seems a disservice to the janitorial employees and schools. So much to reform, so little time.
@1. Jden/Shelly. Tho a piece of me worried uncaseverified, I kept mind Shelly’s Q was for a reason, this family has now 2 (then 3) kids at Skyline, recruited strangers 2ce this uear to “clean up,” amd were on List.
So, despite purging & control of FB, enough to do MCSO proud in tightfisted info control, thru cached googled pgs & secondary church FB pages of smaller groups, I found something momentous did occur betwen Sept 29 & Oct 7th, most likely after Oct3; involved the entire family, which “disappeared” from view; was effected by the local governing body (the Session); created conflict internally; was the subject of an external investigation with recommendations in early Dec (that is the Commission, headed by the New Wines honcho Weaver -a group that merged with EP – he’s from Pennsyl). Two men posted they hoped for Pasror’s return ” in triumph.”
Women worry about the family. The Session & RK apparently must “agee” and congregants have been awaiting sn Announcement since early Dec. Congregational meetings in Oct postponed. From knowing this culture, I’d say it’s not theological (he’d just come back from Michogan, happily) nor financial (ch too big and well audit controllef). That leaves the personal. I did see her Orphans Overseas, but had more interest in Community House, as it advertises across the country for single pg women to fly in for support, but support stops when the car goes to the hospital.
I’ve learnrd from Kyron’s case, if a state has weak/murky statutes re child porn, child sex abuse, it is a safe haven for same, if a state has a rare assisted suicide statute, businesses profitting from end of life transitions will move there, ie from AZ; if states weakly regulate adoption, agencys’ ads may go forth soliciting out of state pg women to be come to town until delivery.
Kyron, though, is not a social cause but a person. For the life of me, how could this have been pulled off with all those Fed agencies. And you’d think a fractitious family, at odds, would
make finding easier.
g easier. And how can a SZ be found anyway?
Sorry: : “agee” typo for “agree”
Mother Hen said:
Kyron Horman disappeared from an Oregon public school where there is a history of teachers getting away with things they should not — and being allowed to STILL teach and be around children.
There is no erasing the history of failed leadership when it comes to minors. I know my Oregon history (not getting into particulars) — do you?
——————————
I was not going to comment on this post, but will offer these final comments on this matter.
Since you asked, I do know my Oregon history, very well indeed. In addition, have been an Oregonian all my life, for nearly six decades – as were my parents and grandparents before me. Was an Oregon public school student for the entirety of my education, and have been a public school teacher in Oregon for the last 35 years – working with thousands of hard working, dedicated educators who care deeply about the learning and safety of their students.
Yes, there are surely teachers who have no business in the field – as is the case in every state in the union. Fortunately, the Teacher Standards and Practices Commission (TSPC) is becoming more proactive and forceful on this front. There is always room for regulatory improvement whenever and wherever the education and safety of children are involved.
Blink – please do not post if you believe this is not appropriate for this forum.
I almost never post here but have been reading daily since Ky disappeared and my heart is still breaking over this child who has become a cause for so many of us.
I am responding here to those who think there should be something more we can do to fight child exploitation. I am sure there are a number of excellent organizations out there, but I am mentioning one that is national and is headquartered in my hometown. It is called Darkness to Light http://www.d2l.org and their philosophy is one I wholeheartedly support as an adult survivor of sexual abuse. Their goal is simple: to end child sexual abuse.
I also firmly support the premise of this organization – that it is up to adults and communities to take control of this issue and do what needs to be done to protect our kids from predators. I cannot express how horrible it was to grow up believing that I had failed because I didn’t understand what was happening, didn’t protect myself and didn’t prevent it from happening to others. The message seemed to be that I was the one (as a child) who was supposed to prevent my abuse. Children are almost always selected, targeted and groomed for abuse precisely BECAUSE they are not equipped to handle that level responsibility.
Please consider this program for your community or organization as a step in the right direction for protecting kids.
@Beejay
Jamie and Ubaldo were allegedly abducted by their mother, Elsy Mejia-Sanchez, on May 19, 2010. A felony warrant for Custodial Interference was issued for Elsy on July 27, 2010. Jamie has a mole on her upper right cheek. Elsy may go by the alias last name Mejia-Puerto.
ANYONE HAVING INFORMATION SHOULD CONTACT
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
~~~
July 27, 2010 seems to be the date that we started from.
@Beejay
As to a loose end, I’d appreciate anyone’s help who’s willing and able on this detail: what is the earliest date on which it was announced that Jamie Mejia and Ubaldo Sanchez-Mejia were missing?
Earliest I’ve got on hand is around June 16, 2010, which is earlier than I remembered.
~~~
If LE knew of these missing kids around June 16th, that’s 20 days before the MFH sting. hmmmm
I meant to type 10 days not 20
After re-reading my post I want to clarify my uncle neither is nor ever was a pedophile. My point was he was a drug addict and since becoming clean has changed his life’s direction and is a productive member of society.
I do not believe predator pedophiles can or even want to change.
Blink, is there anything more known about SZ now than a physical description? Do you know who SZ is? Do you think LE does, i.e., just a matter of finding him?
@beejay says:
January 9, 2011 at 2:02 pm
So, Beejay, if I read correctly, Timur listed one of his addresses on the sex offender list as Sunset PC?
Rose, good research on Sunset but I am still very curious as to what occurred to RK and family in October, likely after Oct 3. What occurred in the KyH timeline at that time? DY pleaded on Oct 2 for the reward to be increased “to at least $350,000.” LE searched SI again, two weekends in a row, as well as NW Cornelius Pass Road (route from Skyline to Sauvie).
Blink says –
Mockingbird Sings-
with much respect, over my dead ass will I take responsibility for a pedophile not being able to find a job because of their offenses and registry status.
WHAT I GLADLY WILL take responsibility for, is for my tax dollars to contribute to an earmark or even on a local level to provide detained and monitored housing including food and shelter for them, provided they agree to be monitored via GPS along with the conditions of their parole, and their public registry.
I would love for Grace In the Hills to weigh in on this from a professional perspective. In her work, I am positive she has seen escalations manifested in violence to a child by such individuals.
I apologize in advance, for such a harsh opinion, except, no I don’t.
Pedophiles are untreatable, unable to be rehabilitated offenders *waiting*wanting* planning* to re-offend.
B
————————-
Respectfully and humbly, I did not intend to say offenders are not responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions, and that we should be.
What I am saying is that when we are trying to keep track of them, we can’t just kick them out of prison (which we do) and have no place that will accept them for housing (which we do not provide), or work, then not expect the result to be that we aren’t going to know where many of them are at one time or another. In other ‘words, if we choose to deal with offenders by expecting them to tell us where they are, we are going to have to accept a role in making a place for them to be – WHETHER that is jail for life, a death penalty, supervised living and work, an ankle bracelet, or any other means. Supervised living and supervised working and tracking in some way is one way we could provide that, but it requires money and sentencing that allows that as an option.
The concept of registration being the offender’s responsibility is understandable, but, to me, all that does is to give you a hint where to start looking after they re-offend (if they actually do register), and the penalty I have seen for not registering (barring any new charges) is virtually nothing but a break for some free food and meals in jail. If you are on probation it can mean you finish your term in jail, but that can be as little as months or sometimes just weeks.
Oregon already releases some prisoners due to overcrowding, and with all the budget cuts we have had, doing anything new for any reason is a really hard sell. Perhaps your state is different. I’m not saying we shouldn’t try.
I do have some experience with convicted sex offenders, including an ex-extended family member (now divorced, currently in jail), several in churches I attended, and a small but surprising number of high school students (between ages 14 and 19) where I worked, but I’m sure not as much as Grace or some others who post here. I have helped to create safety plans and awareness. I also have experience with probation officers – some who just put out a warrant when someone disappears and wait for the SO to turn up somewhere, and some who actually tried to track down their missing offenders. Even what we CAN do is not applied consistently.
I/we know the problems, but I believe the solution is really a multiple choice question and the final answer will be “all of the above”.
Here is an interesting article that makes some good points about multiple approaches to the problem, one of which I have copied below (regarding the Texas legislature):
“Even so, prosecutors aren’t willing to sit and wait for the highest court in the land to sort it all out. Instead, district attorneys around the state told the legislature that what they really needed were more tools to win cases, not limits on their choices. Working in committee, prosecutors and victims’ rights groups managed to include evidence rule changes that would give them more flexibility in presenting child witnesses.”
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1616890,00.html
Death Penalty for Child Molesters?
By Hilary Hylton/Austin Wednesday, May. 02, 2007
“Working in committee, prosecutors and victims’ rights groups managed . . .” is the kind of approach we need.
I realize this post is not directly related to finding Kyron, so I apologize. It is very frustrating to know there are many offenders who seem to live among us in a sort of “Twilight Zone” where we can’t clearly see them, but we know they are there. That has to stop. We just need to find definitions for what people’s eyes have already seen.
I believe that anyone who was involved in taking Kyron will be forced out of the “Twilight Zone” as we continually find new ways to shine light on them. They will NOT like how it feels in the light of our day. Their only hope is to keep some control by speaking up before we (including LE) do, but I doubt if anyone in this case is smart enough to do that. It may feel strong and smart to be hiding, but why when no one even knows what you did? Everyone knows a truly strong person does not hide from what he’s done. And smart? No way.
Fair and constructive response, I understand your position better, thank you.
On the issue of not keeping track of them, I completely agree. In Many states, “homeless” is a viable address.
That is license for them to re-offend, imo.
B
“This is coming back to me now, I remember this.
Not our guy.
B”
If you know this isn’t the guy, then you must know who the guy is. Are we close looking at the church and preacher?
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
I know he is suspect zero, but unfortunately that is all. This guy is not even in the zip code of profile, regardless, he needs to be in the klink if he is approaching kids for any reason.
B
@ Shelly says:
January 9, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Shelly, thanks for that Sunset link. I only read back, skimmingly, thru October. What I got was that Pastor Kincaid has been on administrative leave for many months now pending a decision about his continuation as pastor. Seems due to the church not meeting its desired income and numbers. Thinking he doesn’t have the skills to reach their goals. That the Elders have been working on this decision for about 2 yrs behind the scenes. The commission is to make a final decision, I think. That was hoped for by now. Other gossip has come up.
Don’t see a tie-in with Ky. Thanks again for the link.
It became personal attack when it was implied that I had criticized the “Good people of Oregon.” That was a personal attack.
Just keeping the facts straight.
Have a great day!
================================
Kimberly says:
January 9, 2011 at 3:59 pm
14.Mother Hen says:
January 9, 2011 at 11:09 am
(snip)>
I know my Oregon history (not getting into particulars) — do you?
The decision was instult on top of injury. Period
************************************************************
Do we REALLLLLLLY need to go through this harsh debate and negativeness, AGAIN?
I swear this is ridiculous!
More importantly, How does any of this kind of crap help find KYROn?
WTH cares who’s right and who’s wrong, we are all here to help and learn.
Sheesh.
I gave it all the latitude I intend to, I agree that our debate needs to remain constructive and never personal to the poster.
B
Ok, so we are all on board with the no personal attacks to anyone specifically- awesome.
Thanks
B
Kimberly,
I believe this topic of discussion is important to finding Kyron in that I do not believe Terri Horman should have been the prime / only focus. From the onset, the school should have been under fire for the unorganized and irresponsible event. THAT is relative to this case, but largely ignored. I refuse to ignore it. But I agree, the personal attacks are useless.
One last note — All Oregon schools need is for the viewing of child porn to be OK — especially when teachers have been able to view porn in the past at work and still teach! Gotta love those unions.
sigh…..
Hey pps, that means you too!
You have my word on the 3x.
B
FYI, tonight is the first time that an Oregon football team has made it to the National Championships. GO DUCKS! We need some good news for a change!
Regarding Elsy and missing kids…we’ve never gotten confirmation from Blink that Elsy is Rudy’s wife or any relation to Rudy.I remember months ago, someone posted on OL that the landscpaper was dragged into all of this mess and that he’s a good person….when brought to Blink’s attention, she said “that’s his wife” (Ohgoodnessme was name of poster on OregonLive).
If that was Rudy’s wife, then evidentally Rudys wife is not missing.
If Elsy is not Rudy’s wife, then who is she and who are the father/s of the two children?
@Jden: NOOOOO. Timur’s RSO addy is with a relative in Lake Oswego. That addy is very close to Sunset PChurch. Timur has previously attained access to kids thru his church. He was thrown out of his LDS church. I’m suggesting, as an EXAMPLE, that someone like Timur might be looking for a new church affiliation–for his, uh, spiritual needs, ya know?? And there sits a nearby church that is looking to increase its numbers. And that has large number of visitors every sunday. My eyes would be pealed if I attended or worked at Sunset PChurch.
***********************
MockingBird: thank you for taking your time to post all this. One comment from the community mental health perspective: back in the 70s medications became widely available to treat schizophrenia while patients lived in the community, rather than in an inpatient hospital. And funding became available for community MHCenters to assist. It was/is MUCH cheaper (and humane) to treat these folks outside of a permanent inpatient/residential locked facility.
Fast-forward to today. Efforts to “cure” (that is, redirect the sexual target) pedophiles are largely dismal failures. And way too expensive. Won’t happen in foreseeable future.
By analogy to schizophrenics, we have same situation. It’ll always be cheaper to “control” them in a community setting rather than a prison or hospital. AND, the anti-androgenic meds are available. They reduce sex drive overall. Including injectables with relatively long lasting effects. (Can’t trust them to take a pill; shots are immensely better.) Some sex offender tx programs are using the shots.
Problems: (1)getting them to show up for their shot; finding them quickly if they don’t; (2)even the shots can be overridden by certain steroid drugs, easily obtained by the motivated.
Under whispered consideration: implantable GPS locating devices. You can see the problems with that.
Highly successful in other countries: surgical castration. Almost–almost–100% effective. Not 100% because the sex drive is, in part, a learned behavior. And because any sexual assault is about dominance and non-sexual excitement, too.
I usually only say this to colleagues, in a humorous way. But you guys are becoming my colleagues, so I say to you: it is a demonstrated fact that if we could–and would–reduce the testerone levels in our population, we could bring crime levels so low that most of law enforcement could be put out to early retirement.
Not gonna happen. Waiting for power outages here to shut me down….
I’m a teacher and a union member and in 11yrs we have had 2 teachers dismissed for engaging in internet porn, one on the job the other at his home. One was allowed to resign and the other was fired. I don’t know the details of either one, it was kept real quite but the union had nothing to do with it at that point. Unions don’t call the shots in something like this. We have an extremelly strong union. I’ll bet it wasn’t the union keeping their jobs, it was administration or they were well connected.
castrate pedophiles.
On the issue of not keeping track of them, I completely agree. In Many states, “homeless” is a viable address.
That is license for them to re-offend, imo.
B
*********
Some have talked about putting a chip in our children to track them. Perhaps a better idea is to put a chip in the sex offenders. Seems we have a lot of trouble keeping track of them.
46.beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 12:13 pm
Under whispered consideration: implantable GPS locating devices. You can see the problems with that.
Highly successful in other countries: surgical castration. Almost–almost–100% effective. Not 100% because the sex drive is, in part, a learned behavior. And because any sexual assault is about dominance and non-sexual excitement, too.
******
We could give the offenders a choice, GPS chip, castration or the bullet. Or maybe first GPS chip, if that does not work castration and if that still fails the bullet. But really why would a GPS chip have problems? Are they going to tear it out? Are we infringing on their rights? Just think if we could get on our computer to see if the guy in our front yard mowing the grass was pingging away.
You are right! Just bummed out. I didn’t need to add fuel to the fire. Sorry!
_____________________________
Hey pps, that means you too!
B
A pass for you today
B
MockingbirdSings says:
January 8, 2011 at 10:10 pm
beejay says:
January 8, 2011 at 8:02 am
I know people say you have to intentionally “go there” to have something download, but that is not necessarily true. If your computer is not properly protected, just the difference between .org and .com in typing an address can get you to very different places unexpectedly.
———————
Mockingbird is right … out of college many yrs ago, my very first real job involved working with computers, the internet and all the little intricacies of those two things and it’s a known fact that through completely innocent means, you can end up with crazy, completely unintentional things on your computer through no fault of your own.
To their horror, many women in my company ended up with exactly that through searching for other everyday things. Some topics on the internet are just rife with known side issues like this, music, movie download sites, and song lyric sites are just three of the many I know that do this. And sometimes clicking on a song lyric site or some other basic entertainment address would bring up porn-related pop-ups, screenshots, etc instead. At the same time, this is also a way that potential hackers get into other people’s computers as these sites are often encoded with malicious code/worms,software, etc that downloads to an unsuspecting user’s computer and does all kinds of destructive things. If you ever have this happen to you, make sure your virus/spyware programs are up-to-date, close all other programs, run a complete computer scan and if anything is found, immediately quarantine anything found (or run a “fix” if you can). Some of my co-workers computers were completely infected by malware accidentally downloaded w/o their knowledge just by surfing the internet without really knowing what they were doing. One took the sys admin wks to completely fix as some malicious code/viruses don’t always show up anywhere obvious and can often run in the background w/virtually no traces.
There are some sites (usually questionable material sites) that purposely register certain domain names which are close to official site names for the very purpose of misleading searchers into viewing their questionable sites.
I don’t know if it’s still there or not, as I haven’t tested it and have no desire to, but yrs ago, the White House site alone was just one of many sites that people often mistyped and were lead to a very different web address altogether. As Mockingbird described, it was simply the difference between typing .gov and .com which is often a very innocent and un-inintentional mistake and some people just don’t honestly know which one the official site is.
Anyway … I agree usually if you’re looking (especially if more than once at the same types of sites), you’re there for a less than honorable reason and LE should really look into it, but it IS in fact very possible to end up with sites (pop-ups, images, etc) appearing on your computer (and temp files downloaded to your computer from that site as a result as well) without any intention on your part at all simply by trying to click on and go to sites related to music, song lyrics, Hollywood movie sites, among others. FWIW