Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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40.Mother Hen says:
January 10, 2011 at 10:15 am
Kimberly,
I believe this topic of discussion is important to finding Kyron in that I do not believe Terri Horman should have been the prime / only focus. From the onset, the school should have been under fire for the unorganized and irresponsible event. THAT is relative to this case, but largely ignored. I refuse to ignore it. But I agree, the personal attacks are useless.
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How do you know TH has been the only focus??? And also LE always looks at the family first and once they are cleared they move on.. Was TH ever cleared after failing MULTIPLE LDT and not being truthful about the day in question… And then lawyers up.. Now why EXACTLY would she NOT stay in the focus of LE??
If it would have been in reverse I think people would be going CRAZY if LE just blew her off… TH could have cleared herself in the beginning with being honest.. She CHOSE not to. I REFUSE to ignore that..
Puzzled, didn’t you post the summary quotes recently about where the investigation stands? Including that the DA said several more months of investigation (barring an evidentiary breakthrough)? That’s the clearest statement we’ve had of where things stand.
The biggest question I have right now: is this profiled-perp just some opportunistic sexual predator with a wide open shopping day on June 4 (or, more probably, with previous access to the school bldg and school routines)?
OR, is the profiled-perp actually RS and/or one of his associates, or a rat who came in the door with them? In our guessing game here, do we want to label as ‘mere coincidence’ the background events in Ky’s world in the weeks just before he disappeared?
What do we suppose was happening between Mother’s Day and June 4 last year between Terri and Rudy? Nothing? The Clack Cty LEO’s visit to his home totally subdued him?
I still know relatively little about Rudy. Was he after TH’s child rather than her?
Was somebody (RS or other?) hanging around the neighborhood or school and making Ky more nervous than he already was? If only we would believe Terri about something, we could believe that she saw a change in Ky’s mental state in “the last couple of weeks” before June 4. Enough to even contact a doctor about. Of course, it could be that was Ky was simply reflecting Terri’s increased anxiety at that time. But even that tells us something—that Terri was more on edge than usual.
There was another suddenly edgy mother in those 2 weeks and she was in the Sanchez sphere. She took a really bold step in disappearing with her kids on May 19, when she abducted them—alledgedly.
Or, maybe all this Terri-RS and associates-Elsy activity and its timing is merely coincidental. IDK.
BLINK: is there a reason you haven’t connected RS and Associates with the profiled perp?
beejay says:
January 9, 2011 at 2:02 pm
I think all our churches need to be familiar with the faces of the local RSOs, don’t ya’ll? Are we all too busy to help with that? Call your own minister and crank up the printing presses, Mothers. Very little administrative overhead; no organization to form or membership records to keep.
Surely this is God’s work.
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Bingo, beejay! Sadly, I have often heard this is one of the places less than honorable people try to blend in order to meet their own twisted agendas as church is one of the few places many people just naturally feel safe and secure and often won’t question others behavior. Over the yrs it seems this appears to have more merit than I even I originally thought as it makes sense an SO would quite possibly have freer reign over victims there. Who ever starts out thinking your own church congregant is potentially a perv or an actual registered offender of any sort? Until the Kyron case, I know I didn’t but now I am vigilant everywhere, including church. Our church is fairly small, in a small town/rural area and pretty good where our fellow worshippers go, but even then I must admit, there are one or two men in our church I am leery of in regard to my kids and I don’t let them out of my site there for that reason. You just never know anymore. So sad I even have to type that, but we don’t live in the days of June and Ward Cleaver anymore.
Is SZ a pedophile … serial or opprotunistic … did he target Ky specifically or was Ky a “type” … did he leave the area or is still around … and what if any is his conncection to TH?
Or is the pedophile theory a default because there is no connection to TH?
beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 12:13 pm
it is a demonstrated fact that if we could–and would–reduce the testerone levels in our population, we could bring crime levels so low that most of law enforcement could be put out to early retirement.
Not gonna happen.
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100% success rate, huh? Well, I’m all for that, especially since they have been proven over many yrs of research to be untreatable. Therapy doesn’t work, programs don’t work, nothing work because in many of these cases, it’s become part of who they are as a person, much like personality disorders are described in the general population … the “soul” or “heart” of a person’s identity if you will vaguely speaking.
One thing you didn’t mention though … how ’bout going back to those days of yore when lobotomies (or partial ones) were the answer for certain mental disorders, deviant behaviors, etc? I know they are supposed to have rights and all that, but considering their victims and the heinous nature of many of their crimes, I admit I have a real problem with that. My take on anyone who purposely harms or kills a child is strike one and you’re automatically out …no 2nd, 3rd and 50th chances. Enough is enough. No adults rights should ever outweigh an innocent and defenseless child’s … ever! I know that might sound really harsh and overly judgmental to some, but dang it … when it comes to children in general, that’s just how I feel. It is everyone’s job and responsibility to protect them … period!
@ MockingbirdSings:
Awesome and insightful post on ways to solve some of the problems with tracking SO’s after release!
It does seem to be a ‘catch-22′… we want to know exactly where SO’s are, at all times… but, in many cases, make it nearly impossible to do so by virtually ensuring they become transients after release.
Blink is right, it’s just giving them the chance to offend again, without being immediately detected!
We need to do more than shout “NIMBY!” if we’re going to get a handle on this situation, as a society…
Too bad that mandatory life-long civil commitment, or natural life without parole, for ALL pedophiles (and MOST other sex offenders) would be cost prohibitive.
We *know* darned well these people can’t be reformed or rehabilitated, and that releasing them is just the same as waiting for an inevitable repeat of their past deviant behavior!
Seems to me, ‘locked-up for life’, is the best option all ’round, for preventing recidivism…
Well, *other* than rendering them ‘carbon-neutral’, of course!
Maybe changing our approach to handling RSO’s won’t restore Kyron to his parents, but, if it prevents even ONE other family from enduring this kind of preventable tragedy in the future, I would count it as tax money well-spent.
@Ode: you asked about the implantable GPS device, “…Are they going to tear it out?”
In a word: Yes, some would. Hard to believe, isn’t it? Harder to remove an implanted device than to cut off an ankle monitor, but doable. It’s not major surgery. We want someone to watch over them every second BEFORE they do something.
More importantly is that you set up a 24/7 monitoring situation that’s subject to tinkering, failure, and/or too expensive to actually do effectively.
**************
@justice23: Not sure a lobotomy would accomplish what is desired, but they’re too expensive anyway for society to take on. Surgical castration is much cheaper, quicker recovery, etc. And mostly does the job. (Ovaries removed for females; it’s mostly a male crime anyhow)
**************
Does anyone really think we could sell this in this country?
5.beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 1:45 pm
The biggest question I have right now: is this profiled-perp just some opportunistic sexual predator with a wide open shopping day on June 4 (or, more probably, with previous access to the school bldg and school routines)?
~~~
7.puzzled says:
January 10, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Is SZ a pedophile … serial or opprotunistic … did he target Ky specifically or was Ky a “type” … did he leave the area or is still around … and what if any is his conncection to TH?
Or is the pedophile theory a default because there is no connection to TH?
~~~~~
we’re thinking too much alike … too many years working with the same kind of population?
@ beejay & others on unintentional port:
beejay says:
January 8, 2011 at 8:02 am
I know people say you have to intentionally “go there” to have something download, but that is not necessarily true. If your computer is not properly protected, just the difference between .org and .com in typing an address can get you to very different places unexpectedly.
———————————————–
We had a similar experience when our reprehensible ex-brother-in-law lived with us for 6 months. At some point during his stay, I started to type something into the search window in our browser’s menu bar, and the auto-form-fill feature offered up some of the searches for porn sites that he’d apparently been conducting during the night. We didn’t “go there” to see what he was viewing, but looking at the history didn’t suggest that it was child pornography.
If it HAD been, however, how could we have proven that it wasn’t my husband or me? Ex-BIL certainly never would have admitted to it! We considered that lesson “our free one,” and now limit access to our computers to the two adults and two supervised kids in our immediate family. No exceptions.
And FWIW, I agree with castration for SOs, but I’m not sure how one stops them from offending with their hands.
Just a thought .. did somebody find a picture of Pastor Ron before June 2010? I know that B said he is in a different ZIP code, but I am curious.
#
beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Ode: you asked about the implantable GPS device, “…Are they going to tear it out?”
In a word: Yes, some would. Hard to believe, isn’t it? Harder to remove an implanted device than to cut off an ankle monitor, but doable. It’s not major surgery. We want someone to watch over them every second BEFORE they do something.
More importantly is that you set up a 24/7 monitoring situation that’s subject to tinkering, failure, and/or too expensive to actually do effectively.
**************
@justice23: Not sure a lobotomy would accomplish what is desired, but they’re too expensive anyway for society to take on. Surgical castration is much cheaper, quicker recovery, etc. And mostly does the job. (Ovaries removed for females; it’s mostly a male crime anyhow)
**************
Does anyone really think we could sell this in this country?
~~~~~~
Lock em in stocks on the town square.
Or make em flash or glow to warn of their presence.
Or attach electrical probes delivering mega volts should they approach anyone under age.
Or whack their peepee with barb wire….
Or upon rise in blood pressure they explode….
just a few suggestions…
I think the “serial pedophile” can only be true if every theory involving TH & RS & Associates and missing women w/children is ruled out.
Neither theory rules out the possibility of KyH being taken out of the area or country.
However, neither theory completely explains “how” someone was able to remove a child from school with out being noticed or heard!!
Multiple issues here, not the least being … no one knows, for sure, what happened to Kyron.
12.pdxparent says:
January 10, 2011 at 3:19 pm
And FWIW, I agree with castration for SOs, but I’m not sure how one stops them from offending with their hands.
~~~
cut those off too
Jeff D I like your way of thinking!! LOL! I also think they should tatoo their forheads.
I cannot reconcile a “serial pedophile” who has “master IT skills” and is “organized” with a illegal non-english speaking landscaper who has low-impulse control and is “dis-organized”.
These profiles do not intersect in any way other than “sexually motivated”.
So, back to day one, was this sexually motivated … a kidnapping for ranson … abduction gone wrong … or an act of revenge?
Just a suggestion …
If Ky was not taken by a “serial” pedophile … but for one of the other reasons … then it’s possible Ky was transported out of the area, even country … don’t be surprised if contact is made for his return.
Could be reason why LE is holding off …
http://wedding.zoolkoski.org/wedding/19.html
Neighbor,
Pastor RK officiating at a wedding. You can scroll through, there are a few of RK.
@puzzled: Yes, and such fond memories I have of them all. Sure hated to retire.
BTW, the level of IT skills necessary to hide your viewing of child porn online would not be out of reach for a small businessman who we know kept his landscape businesses records on his computer. He might have even let someone in the house view; someone with lesser IT skills. I always thought he (you-know-who) probably received graphic photos from TH and shared them with “the guys”. And maybe one of the guys took a liking to her cute child, who he saw on the job site and/or on Facebook, or on phone. For me, could still be him or one of his associates who he let look.
**********************
@pdxparent: you said, “I agree with castration for SOs, but I’m not sure how one stops them from offending with their hands.”
__________
Well, you don’t–or with an object. But the effectiveness of surgical castration lies in the fact that when you remove the testes, you reduce the male sex drive to near-zero. (Except for, you know, the memories of how sweet it was, etc–the learned component). AND, importantly, you lower the level of testosterone by removing the testes. And testosterone is a component in fueling aggression of all types. Sexual assault being a crime of sex drive, general aggression, and learned perverse-thinking (that’s my term for it). I’m working off follow-up studies from countries where surgical castration has been performed and studied. Not from theories of how it should work. We know now that it mostly does work.
A puzzled says:
January 10, 2011 at 3:35 pm
I think the “serial pedophile” can only be true if every theory involving TH & RS & Associates and missing women w/children is ruled out.
________________
‘Splain why to me, if you would. You can’t allow that RS and/or associate could be a serial pedophile??? Maybe I’m having a DUH moment.
Might this be RK water skiing:
I believe the young man in the background is saying, “If I pulled out of here” (inaudible) – (he would be mad as… ???)
http://www.yomansports.com/view_video.php?viewkey=05d7379fa3a6386f710e#total_comments
WHAT??? Is this a typo?
“I know he is suspect zero,”
____________________________________________________
39.cbickel says:
January 10, 2011 at 9:24 am
“This is coming back to me now, I remember this.
Not our guy.
B”
If you know this isn’t the guy, then you must know who the guy is. Are we close looking at the church and preacher?
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
I know he is suspect zero, but unfortunately that is all. This guy is not even in the zip code of profile, regardless, he needs to be in the klink if he is approaching kids for any reason.
B
AAAHH. Must be read in context, entire exchange.
B
@neighbor: when Blink answered cbickel this am, I didn’t think she was addressing cb’s question about the preacher. I thought she was saying that Tony Phipps, who we’d been discussing, wasn’t even in the zip code of the profiled-perp. I could be wrong.
Any additional info as to what/where/why we’re looking for a photo of RK before June 2010?
@Jden thanks
Beejay & Puzzled,
Beejay, I think you have found the earliest release of the missing children.
What makes me think there is a connection to this case, over all of the coincidences, is the first names of the children. The only DIRECT name search hits of RS is Jaime and Ubaldo. What are the odds that someone names their children these two specific names, after RS’s brothers and then goes missing just before the largest missing child case in Oregon where he is being implicated by the de facto suspect he was having an affair with?
It may not be RS’s wife, and I am inclined to believe not, but IMO definitely related to RS, yes. Perhaps the wife of the associate we have been told to seek out. The way one of the links Beejay submitted reads, makes me think LE believes that something could have “happened” to the mother.
My $$$ is on #2.
Beejay says:
snip>
The biggest question I have right now: is this profiled-perp just some opportunistic sexual predator with a wide open shopping day on June 4 (or, more probably, with previous access to the school bldg and school routines)?
OR, is the profiled-perp actually RS and/or one of his associates, or a rat who came in the door with them? In our guessing game here, do we want to label as ‘mere coincidence’ the background events in Ky’s world in the weeks just before he disappeared?
Blink,
RK is “not even in the zip code of profile”? Does that mean that RK doesn’t meet the physical description of SZ (by a long-shot)? Otherwise, you would have to be knowledgeable of RK’s IT skills in order to make that statement.
Can someone please point me to the SZ desription once more, or supercopy it here? Thank you.
@beejay thanks for pointing that out. I am curious how he compares to MM. It always fascinated me that MM had a small Asian girl with him. The adoption agency got me thinking.
Thanks. (Darn)
________________________________________________
AAAHH. Must be read in context, entire exchange.
B
neighbor says:
January 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Just a thought .. did somebody find a picture of Pastor Ron before June 2010? I know that B said he is in a different ZIP code, but I am curious.
***********************************************************************
@neighbor.
Pastor Ron appears in this video from the prayer vigil for Kyron that was held at Sunset,
(He begins speaking on camera at about the -9:34 time marker)
http://www.kgw.com/home/Candlelight-vigil-planned-for-Kyron-Horman-96304094.html
@5.7. Puzzled/Beejay, I have same Qs.
Also first pg of Metro in Wash Post today (on line) has a VA proposal to eliminate sex abuse in that state’s public schools – a model.
Regarding internet porn, child porn and pedophiles. When they were discussing this on the news this web site kept coming up on the TV screen.
http://www.altbinaries.com/
Looks like you have to pay for a subscription and check out their privacy policy. Is this the type of site the peds use? The altbinaries
sites have been around for more than twenty years. There were actual books sold in bookstores with hundreds and hundreds of listings and a huge assortment of explicit sexual acts of any variety. My question, why are these types of sites allowed and why aren’t they regulated for content? Anyone?
2.puzzled says:
January 10, 2011 at 12:40 pm
castrate pedophiles.
@puzzled- Yep, nip it in the bud, as it were. IMO it would serve as a big deterrent to others that are thinking about offending. It will never happen, though, because they have rights and their victims do not. We can only try to get the laws changed so these SOs will serve life sentences on our collective dimes.
No castration. No body mutilation. And in my opinion, no electrocutions, hangings or floggings. Until we have a perfect judicial system (which we don’t), how can we do these things in good conscience?
What if your husband was wrongfully accused of rape and his wee-wee was cut off as punishment? There’s no way to correct that judicial mistake. Mistakes happen in the courts. All the time.
Violence is not the answer. Society needs to be protected from these offenders. Yes. Absolutely. But before we resort to mutilations, torture and death sentences, we need to find a better way of protecting ourselves and our children from offenders. I don’t know the answer, but I know violence is not it.
4.Ode says:
January 10, 2011 at 1:21 pm
46.beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 12:13 pm
Under whispered consideration: implantable GPS locating devices. You can see the problems with that.
Highly successful in other countries: surgical castration. Almost–almost–100% effective. Not 100% because the sex drive is, in part, a learned behavior. And because any sexual assault is about dominance and non-sexual excitement, too.
******
We could give the offenders a choice, GPS chip, castration or the bullet. Or maybe first GPS chip, if that does not work castration and if that still fails the bullet. But really why would a GPS chip have problems? Are they going to tear it out? Are we infringing on their rights? Just think if we could get on our computer to see if the guy in our front yard mowing the grass was pingging away
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@Ode – Great idea, well said, love it. I would vote for this 100%.
Rose says:
January 9, 2011 at 5:43 pm
So, despite purging & control of FB, enough to do MCSO proud in tightfisted info control, thru cached googled pgs & secondary church FB pages of smaller groups, I found something momentous did occur betwen Sept 29 & Oct 7th, most likely after Oct3; involved the entire family, which “disappeared” from view; was effected by the local governing body (the Session); created conflict internally; was the subject of an external investigation with recommendations in early Dec (that is the Commission, headed by the New Wines honcho Weaver -a group that merged with EP – he’s from Pennsyl). Two men posted they hoped for Pasror’s return ” in triumph.”
Shelly says:
January 9, 2011 at 2:31 pm
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sunset-Presbyterian-Church/62475756519?v=wall&filter=3 ) -(these were posts and feedback they were deleted – but still able to view).
Jden says:
January 10, 2011 at 1:03 am
Rose, good research on Sunset but I am still very curious as to what occurred to RK and family in October, likely after Oct 3. What occurred in the KyH timeline at that time? DY pleaded on Oct 2 for the reward to be increased “to at least $350,000.” LE searched SI again, two weekends in a row, as well as NW Cornelius Pass Road (route from Skyline to Sauvie).
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@ JDen, Rose, and Shelly.
Thanks for sharing your links + thoughts.
Interesting comments made when scrolling back to the Oct 3-10th time period.
People speak of being gossip, feeling shaken, devastated, etc about what happened with Pastor Ron.
All the talk of “receiving THE email”, “The Session” and “The Commission” is odd. MOO
From what I could put together – an decision was supposed to be made by early December – but still nothing? Correct?
Something came to a head at Sunset in that time period … doesn’t sound financial or theological to me. MOO.
I echo JDen’s question.
What was happening in little Kyron’s investigation during this timeline?
Is there any connection?
Sigh … only more questions.
Correction:
should read “hearing gossip” NOT “being gossip”.
21.beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 4:25 pm
BTW, the level of IT skills necessary to hide your viewing of child porn online would not be out of reach for a small businessman who we know kept his landscape businesses records on his computer. He might have even let someone in the house view; someone with lesser IT skills. I always thought he (you-know-who) probably received graphic photos from TH and shared them with “the guys”. And maybe one of the guys took a liking to her cute child, who he saw on the job site and/or on Facebook, or on phone. For me, could still be him or one of his associates who he let look.
~~~
All correct, and very possible … but does not match Blink’s profile.
“organized” and “serial” relate to level of detailed planning … as oppose to a “snatch-n-grab” pervert.
Could still be the profile of a “serial pedophile” but with different defining criteria.
Also, would think FBI techs have been through the computers of RS and anyone else remotely connected to him. They went through DD and friends.
As well, SZ either has zero e-print or one that evades detection of the best from FBI … per Blink. Someone who either didn’t know what the hell he was doing or knew exactly what he was doing … not anywhere in between.
@Jeff D and others:
ROFL so much my stomach hurts! Ya’ll are on a roll today.
IMHO we’re all feeling frustrated and angry. I think the best we can realistically hope for is stronger laws and sentences for all SOs and that is what we should be fighting for. I know I’ve written a few letters today and intend to write more, make phone calls, etc. Let our voices be heard to bring forth the changes we need for all the victims that no longer have one.
God Bless Kyron and all the other innocent victims.
I need to clarify my thinking ..
“serial pedophile” says to me a guy did this for personal gratification, exclusively.
RS or anyone related to TH was driven by a different motive … could still be sexually motivated, but with an added agenda.
God be with you, Kyron, wherever you are little guy…
We are all thinking of you every day. We will not ever forget you…
Greetings to all on here. Just keeping the hope alive for Kyron.
Here is what I got out of the RK issue at Sunset. If you follow the link and click on the “Feedback 27″ it will give you an idea of what happened. Not sure if I missed something as I can be thick headed at (most of the) times.
snip from another poster>
I would urge everybody to read the Book of Order to familiarize themselves with the mechanics of how this can take place. It is a free download at
http://www.epc.org/mediafiles/book-of-order-2010-2011.pdf.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sunset-Presbyterian-Church/62475756519?v=wall&filter=3
(NAME LEFT OUT) I think what some might have forgotten or missed in the meeting last Sunday and totally stood out to me, a person ready to fight for Ron was:
1. The Session and Ron have been working with outside coaches to help with Ron’s anger/personnel skills but that has not progressed well, 2. We were sued by an ex-employee. Sunset ch…ose to settle out of court but points to some major issues
3.Ron was offered the opportunity to stay as a teaching pastor, he said no to this option leading to the vote to remove him. I don’t know what sort of “compensation” package was offered but it showed compromise on the part of the Session.The Session didn’t want to remove Ron, like the rest of us, they love him.They wanted to utilize his gifts. Ron’s are teaching and evangelism, not administration or management. God gives us each gifts for a reason and we are not meant to force gifts that we don’t have; it is feudal when we do. When we do we end up creating a mess of things; this is where we sit.
See More
October 8, 2010 at 10:59pm · Like · Comment · View Feedback (27)Hide Feedback (27)
Here is the best implemented idea in the US I have seen for SO’s thus far. Now if we can just figure a way for them to be self-supporting. I feel like Beejay and JeffD, but I do have concerns as outlined by Mosiac. This confinement has not eliminated the problems that Oregon and other states face in regards to apprehending and convicting SO’s or forcing them to register. This just addresses the most dangerous convicted SO’s that society does not want on the streets. It is a start. BTW, McNeil Island was closed this year due to budget cuts, however, this program did survive the cuts and the SO’s remain on the island.
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Dangerous-Sex-Offenders-Confined-on-an-Island
@ enumclawrose says:
January 10, 2011 at 4:45 pm
_______________
And, one more thing: 7 days after Elsy “alledgedly” abducted her kids, named Jamie and Ubaldo, Maria G. Sanchez decided to register a new business in her name. You know, Maria and Ubaldo Sanchez, who Elsy was listed as a household member of in the white pages. Seven days–maybe just another coincidence. BTW, has anybody seen Ubaldo lately?
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About RK and Sunset P Church: I read further back and deeper into the link Shelly provided. In early Oct. there was suggestion there that the issues with the pastor were not/or not only his failing to meet the financial and congregation size goals. Rather, there were issues with his creating a hostile work environment, possibly some anger mgt problems, and maybe a law suit (settled out of court) against the church by a former employee.
Someone here could search for a civil suit with SPC as a party. I don’t think we’ll find a clue to Ky there, though, so I’m not pursuing it myself.
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@puzzled: okay, i understand your thinking better. For me, a “profile” is still a theory–a SWAG (scientific wild-assed guess). It shouldn’t dictate our search for evidence, though it should surely guide it. So, for me, I’ll look in a wide swath on either side of the profile.
I see your problem with the contaminated motives for Rudy. I’ll ruminate on that.
Suppose this with me: Rudy has an associate who speaks English well. Who can shave and clean up nicely. Who’s smart enough to cooperate with a federal agency in busting some drug dealers, and good enough with people to manipulate his way through a dicey maneuver. We know that RS knows/is possibly related to a Sanchez with that profile. We also are told that particular associate was in jail on June 4. But, WHAT IF Rudy had another associate with a similar profile, who also happened to be a pedophile. Are you with me???
Blink, who were you saying is “not even in the zip code” of SZ – Phipps or RK?
With 2000 ppl in the Sunset PC community, are we to believe that the information of his absence purportedly in emails and the source of gossip has never left the circle? Sleuths! Were it numbers or money, it would be publicly stated, yes?
At the unprecedented Sunset clean-up day which was just 33 days prior to KyH disappearance, “volunteers did landscaping projects, painted, cleaned out an underutilized storage area, broke apart unwieldy items for the trash and installed new benches”. This was planned a year out. Hundreds of SPC members convened at Skyline.
I assume LE has checked that underutilized storage area.
Do we know how Sunset became so closely affiliated with the KyH story, enough to be the venue for a vigil? I wonder if it would be possible to get a church directory.
Blink, freely reel us in if we are completely OT in this direction, otherwise I will continue to research this avenue.
I was referring to the differences in profiles, not logistics
B
@puzzled: another thought: yes, surely Rudy’s computer was seized. Possibly something incriminating was found on it (or his other electronics) that lead him to cooperate on the purported-MFH sting. And to testify at the grand jury. The question is: incriminating of what possible crime? No one has told us yet. (yes, I know he’s an illegal, but Portland doesn’t pursue illegals unless they commit crimes also.) He’s just so visible in Ky’s realm. I think he could be at least a way in for the perp.
One more? Not a “snatch and grab”. A careful planner; in the same way that AS-S seems to be. (But not AS-S.) RS looks pretty buff; speaks English well; clients found him polite and a good communicator. Maybe there’s more like him at home, as they say.
I’m done.
@mosaic, e-rose, others: I didn’t suggestion surgical castration as my personal solution. Though I might go for it as part of an overall solution simply as a pragmatic matter, because it works. BTW, it is not mutilation. (No one’s penis is removed. Modern surgical techniques remove only the smallest amount of tissue. It’s done everyday as a treatment for cancer.) And we’d use anesthesia, too. And I’d support it being an individual’s choice, among his various options.
Because what pedophiles do is so horrible, it’s easy to think they are without some suffering and I just don’t think that’s always true. I quickly found the personal statement from a man who requested castration. The complete article has more info:
“More than 20 years have passed. Pavel, then 18, spent seven years in prison and five years in a psychiatric institution. During his last year in prison, he asked to be surgically castrated. Having his testicles removed, he said, was like draining the gasoline from a car hard-wired to crash. A large, dough-faced man, he is sterile and has forsaken marriage, romantic relationships and sex, he said. His life revolves around a Catholic charity, where he is a gardener.
“I can finally live knowing that I am no harm to anybody,” he said during an interview at a McDonald’s here, as children played loudly nearby. “I am living a productive life. I want to tell people that there is help.”
from: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/world/europe/11castrate.html
Blink, I understand that you meant differences in profiles, but is that difference between SZ and RK, or SZ and Phipps? It’s difficult to tell in that response.
Thanks!
@ those who did further research. I do not believe RK is SZ if only because he attended with wife, if they were together. Also with 3 kids there, he’s known.
It was said in the press he conducted the service as a friend of Kaine’s attends his church. It’s odd the connection came thru Kaine and not Skyline school In seeing him in the wedding pic, before reading the latest, I did think early dementia possible if there were behavioral issues– having read posters, that woukd explain intransigence in adapting to a changing role. No, it’s not numbers or budget–over 27 yrs he built the nos., and anyone knows the income is a function of the economy. Two things engage me–even with egregious behavior, ie affairs, virtually always there is never a quick Session severance and the pastor is allowed to go get a face saving job –here easier as he is an author. the severance pkg is done in advance of announcement. Second, “big guns” in the form of an external denominational commission stepped in with “recommendations they thought he’d accept (but no agreement yet). There was no prescient clue as to events around Oct 1-3, as he’d had happy postings from Michigan, completed a church guys rafting trip, and was Gung Ho for a new year. He, at least, was surprised. If there is an issue of dementia, it could impact other settings (school). I have never seen anything like this in sexual behavioral issues, as they go quietly. Anyway, I dont think Kyron related.
Here’s a wholesome take written by a church employee:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?oe=UTF-8&hl=en&q=cache:1OzFlz2aeNcJ:manofdepravity.com/2010/10/05/the-past-week/
@42. Beejay. You said, “another assoc” “similar profile” “pedophile”. For goodness sakes, can you privately throw Blink a name to “case verify” so we can climb on yr research bandwagon?
@36. Puzzled. I like yr reasoning.
If anyone has stored Blink’s word for word profile of SZ,
can you recopy here to refresh?
By the way for what it’s worth, I like the idea of a tatto on the forehead in plain site, drawn like a bulls-eye for first offense. Second offense…shoot the bulls-eye. With all the folks with the bulls-eye on their forheads watchin’ so that they can see what will happen to them.
Thoughts and prayers are with kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.