Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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@beejay re 2. You posited an opportunist in contrast to RS & Assoc. How about a serial/highly organized/IT who cruising the internet saw all those boys of a certain age on line at Skyline, with glasses; planned it out; and absconded with one who looked alike from rear?
http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/kyron-horman-update-hundreds-attend-tuesday-night-vigil-for-missing-oregon-boy?do_not_mobile_redirect=1
well. Cook appears to be tge Friend of Kaine who attends Sunset & organized the vigil. How does this comport with his ex’s description? And, he was johnny on the spot.
Blink could you comment on whether or not Texas Equasearch or Team Adam has been on scene? I do believe I read, awhile back ,where Harry Oakes dogs were there for a short time but family did not wish to give article of Kyrons for search? Just wondering on the search and rescue side of things?
Neither org has been onscene.
B
Let’s see if I even know what is going on
Kyron was see leaving with SZ
however no one has a phyical ID on him
is that right?
No one knows if he is tall or short
old or young
what color of hair
or how he was dressed
Is this close ??
I am serious
he may or not be a pedo
He may have left on a plane
or killed Kyron on SI
is this about where we are at?
@Beejay says
Suppose this with me: Rudy has an associate who speaks English well. Who can shave and clean up nicely. Who’s smart enough to cooperate with a federal agency in busting some drug dealers, and good enough with people to manipulate his way through a dicey maneuver. We know that RS knows/is possibly related to a Sanchez with that profile. We also are told that particular associate was in jail on June 4. But, WHAT IF Rudy had another associate with a similar profile, who also happened to be a pedophile. Are you with me???
~~~
yep, I follow … but who is the still unidentified 3rd person?
pdxparent says:
January 10, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@ beejay & others on unintentional port:
beejay says:
January 8, 2011 at 8:02 am
I know people say you have to intentionally “go there” to have something download, but that is not necessarily true. If your computer is not properly protected, just the difference between .org and .com in typing an address can get you to very different places unexpectedly.
———————————————–
We had a similar experience when our reprehensible ex-brother-in-law lived with us for 6 months. At some point during his stay, I started to type something into the search window in our browser’s menu bar, and the auto-form-fill feature offered up some of the searches for porn sites that he’d apparently been conducting during the night. We didn’t “go there” to see what he was viewing, but looking at the history didn’t suggest that it was child pornography.
If it HAD been, however, how could we have proven that it wasn’t my husband or me? Ex-BIL certainly never would have admitted to it! We considered that lesson “our free one,” and now limit access to our computers to the two adults and two supervised kids in our immediate family. No exceptions.
—————-
@pdxparent –
Let’s try this story another way. Let’s suppose that ex-brother-in-law lived with you and then moved on. Just before he left, he used your computer for a job search. Immediately after that, the computer fan quit working, or it needed cleaning, or some other simple repair job came up. You took it in for repair and in the process of testing, the repair person, not you, found what you describe, and perhaps the pictures on the website that popped up appeared to be of minors in suggestive poses.
The repair person reports what he has found to LE. LE decides to check it out.
Your story continues . . .
I don’t know how it would turn out. We all hope justice will be served, of course.
At the same time we make it tougher for those who abuse children in any way, we need to target those who invade people’s homes with online pop ups, teach people (all ages and skill levels) how to protect themselves on the internet in ways that don’t require a computer degree to understand and implement, and make people aware of what’s happening around them but out of sight and what they can do to help.
@Beejay says some more …
And, one more thing: 7 days after Elsy “alledgedly” abducted her kids, named Jamie and Ubaldo, Maria G. Sanchez decided to register a new business in her name. You know, Maria and Ubaldo Sanchez, who Elsy was listed as a household member of in the white pages. Seven days–maybe just another coincidence. BTW, has anybody seen Ubaldo lately?
~~~
I definitely believe this is all snaggled up in the “Kryon goes missing” story.
The associates also have a trucking company that transport interstate.
@Beejay
we are re-excavating old ground. any particular reason? I’ve got the hefty bags and am good to go!
a “profile” is still a theory–a SWAG (scientific wild-assed guess). It shouldn’t dictate our search for evidence, though it should surely guide it. So, for me, I’ll look in a wide swath on either side of the profile.
~~~
I think I’ve still got a little SWAG in my swagger … or is that swagger in my SWAG.
41.enumclawrose says:
January 10, 2011 at 7:40 pm
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Dangerous-Sex-Offenders-Confined-on-an-Island
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
$165,000 per year per inmate to operate. Costly. Wonder what happened to all the offenders when McNeil closed?
Take note that the two offenders interviewed by Lisa Ling stated plainly they would re-offend and could never safely be around children.
These people cannot stop themselves. They have to be stopped. Once we recognize the need to protect our children is greater than the rights of known serial pedophiles than laws can be established to enact those protections.
I would like to pose a question to Beejay: How certain are psychiatrists in their findings when they say an individual is likely to re-offend? Are the tests uniform in nature from one institution to the next, from one psychiatrist to the next?
Let’s take Jared as an example. Let’s say the law allowed us to apprehend and hold him based on the CD’s and computer downloads because of the nature of the crime, ie… sexual crimes against children. Now let’s say LE has an allotted time to investigate, I’ll arbitrarily say six months. Then let’s say our laws were set up that sex crimes against children had a ‘fast track’ within our judicial system. If a suspect is detained under this scenario, a trial date is scheduled within another allotted time. We could even have a ‘crimes against children’ court.
If found guilty by judge or jury and psychiatrists, say a panel of three, indicate he or she is likely to re-offend, then onward they go to wherever is deemed necessary by the new laws in place to protect our children.
Is this too radical? I know the costs would be astronomical, but only temporarily. As we clean the streets of this evil it will begin to have less impact on our society because less children will be raped or victimized. Costs will eventually go down because many of these predators were victimized as children, indicating this is a learned behavior and the cycle will be greatly affected.
Ducks lost … I’m up and overstimulated … let me see if I understand Beejay’s hypothetical SWAG.
An associate of RS .. who “likes” little boys … is introduced to Ky via sexts between his SM and RS .. cleans up good .. can pass .. enters a school without attracting attention .. lures or removes Ky .. drives a white truck
pretty simple plan … yes? no?
Chaos between TH & RS … disappearance of Elsie and kids … rift with KH … all background noise? or parallel storyline?
A few years ago I saw a program about child
Abuse in another country over seas
It looked like what we call puppy mills
I couldn’t watch much of it
Maybe some of you saw it to
Really awful
Beejay,
Pacific Color Grass, the business that Maria G started at 27195 SW Farmington in Hillsboro (located on or near a river) also is “home” to a siding business (just google the addy) and a reverse addy search shows someone entirely different whom I assume is living in the house on the property. Not sure who is the owner and who are the tenants. Did not want to name names that are OT, but they are there for the taking if they somehow help in getting us closer to the associates that were perhaps around our Elsy, who I believe is more than missing. Where are those kids? I know we are here for Kyron, but I feel our quest is really Ky+2.
44.beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 7:49 pm
And, one more thing: 7 days after Elsy “alledgedly” abducted her kids, named Jamie and Ubaldo, Maria G. Sanchez decided to register a new business in her name. You know, Maria and Ubaldo Sanchez, who Elsy was listed as a household member of in the white pages. Seven days–maybe just another coincidence. BTW, has anybody seen Ubaldo lately?
>>Tech companies want Boy Scout perversion files blocked<<
Won't take link so just add http in front of
://www.komonews.com/news/local/113254759.html
__________________________
More and more, every day-I get the feeling there is a huge conspiracy with a slimy foundation built on abusing our kids.
So now a bunch of tech companies DO NOT want the infamous "boy scout" perv files made public. Can we say "worried about certain tech members"? Because I don't believe that crap about their sudden fear of trade secrets getting out-too easy, too suspect…
What the eff?
B
what ever came of the sighting of a white truck at odd hours at a
residence on Cornelius Pass Rd?
Underhill asked for the public’s help in providing specific details about sightings of a white truck at these Fred Meyer locations:
“- 22075 NW Imbrie Dr., just off Cornelius Pass Rd., in Hillsboro around 9 a.m. on June 4.
- 15995 SW Walker Rd. in Beaverton around 10 a.m. on June 4.
In addition, investigators asked people to think back about whether they saw a white truck on or around Newberry Rd., Germantown Rd., Old Germantown Rd., Skyline Rd., Springville Rd., or Skyline Elementary School between 10:15 and 11:30 a.m. on the day Kyron vanished.”
http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Sheriff-to–100446244.html
@e-rose: Been a long time, but IIRC I saw that location with the siding business and it’s a multi-business site in a rundown warehouse. “tenants” came and went. Where I live people sometimes bunk in those bldgs, too (not legally). But Maria’s got a legit thing going at the Portland Flower Mkt and pays bucks to be there. I think that bus. is legit. It’s Ubaldo’s activities and movements I’m interested in. And those of his younger relatives and associates.
Yeah, Ky + 2 and more to come if the public doesn’t put aside the protection of an investigation and eventual trial and take seriously the possibility that Terri isn’t a gangster who arranged the disappearance of her stepson. IMHO, of course (but who else’s opinion would it be?) The protection of future victims are MY quest and have been all along.
**************
@puzzled says:
January 11, 2011 at 2:44 am
________
Yes, puzzled. You got it. Including the question mark at the end. It’s like walking into gang territory and trying to figure out who did it, isn’t it? So many possible candidates, so many storylines. Sigh.
Oh, white truck not necessarily. I’ve suspended that requirement in my mind since Blink said several Ky lookalikes. How many white trucks were there? Who was seen near which one? IDK. Plus, since LE expanded the timeline of interest in their December “list” on up till NOON, I’m not sure that Ky left the premises before 10 am. I’m open on that, too.
*****************
@ neighbor says:
January 10, 2011 at 4:47 pm
@beejay thanks for pointing that out. I am curious how he compares to MM. It always fascinated me that MM had a small Asian girl with him.
_____________
Your screen resolution must be better than mine because she could be hispanic from what I see.
*****************************
@ iodizedseasalt says:
January 11, 2011 at 8:11 am
what ever came of the sighting of a white truck at odd hours at a
residence on Cornelius Pass Rd?
___________
So many white trucks, so little time.
*******************
@amys sister, you asked me, “I would like to pose a question to Beejay: How certain are psychiatrists in their findings when they say an individual is likely to re-offend? Are the tests uniform in nature from one institution to the next, from one psychiatrist to the next?”
________
That’s not an area of research I’ve ever followed, and I would bet there are few to no studies on the matter. The research is very complicated. In general, I put very little faith in the predictive ability of psychiatry and/or criminology when it comes to whether any individual is likely to do anything. And I think most professionals with any substantive experience (and no ulterior motives) would honestly agree with me.
It’s a freakin mess and our efforts pretty much a dismal failure. So, just look at the past behavior of anyone as a pretty good predictor of his future behavior–no psychiatrist or criminologist needed. With most pedophiles I think the average bag boy at Kroger could predict his future behavior pretty reliably.
@ puzzled says:
January 11, 2011 at 1:06 am
@Beejay
we are re-excavating old ground. any particular reason? I’ve got the hefty bags and am good to go!
_____________
Puzzled: Blink is our leader. I’m hoping she’ll tell us if–and why–SHE is no longer focusing on RS and associates as she did for so long.
How does anyone think an individual who clearly admitted involvement in a MFH plot, to some level of complicity, gets a pass?
B
@cbickel: Got glock???
I completely understand and am compassionate about our quest to punish pedophiles but I think the comments in this thread are sounding evil themselves. Errors occur in the penal and judicial systems and at any time our own lives could be devastated.
I believe our efforts in this upstanding forum might be better spent on prevention and awareness.
In the wake of the AZ shootings and especially post 911, I compel each and every one of you to be aware, be cognizant and a watchful eye of your neighborhood, your community and your peers. Code orange, always. It truly does take a village to raise a child. That includes school employees, parents of other children, volunteers and church members. KyH slipped through the proverbial fingers of his village. How did that happen? Lest KyH not have disappeared in vein, let’s each of us here vow to protect our own village.
God is holding you in the palm of His hands, KyH.
“We had two odd sightings of a vehicle on our road Friday,” Kelley said. Around 3 p.m., he and a neighbor reported seeing a white pick-up truck with a female driver pull to the end of the long road, idle and then turn around. Then again at 2 a.m. Saturday morning, a similar white pickup truck appeared, idled and when a neighbor loosed her dogs, eased away.
“A, it was strange to have a car there, any car there, that we didn’t know, and B, it was strange to have a vehicle come down our dead-end road twice in the same day, hours after a little boy goes missing,” said Kelley. “That’s beyond rare.”
Kelley said authorities have twice searched the deep ravine, creek and railroad tracks located near the end of his street by air and on foot.
http://missingpersons.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69&start=2840&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
I just wonder about this whether LE isn’t telling usanything
Ode says:
January 10, 2011 at 1:21 pm
We could give the offenders a choice, GPS chip, castration or the bullet. Or maybe first GPS chip, if that does not work castration and if that still fails the bullet. But really why would a GPS chip have problems? Are they going to tear it out? Are we infringing on their rights? Just think if we could get on our computer to see if the guy in our front yard mowing the grass was pingging away.
————————————-
ROFLMAO … thank you Ode … I needed a good laugh today. You made me feel much better! Oh … and I completely agree with you. GPS, then castration, then you’re out. They are completely non-productive members of society and are un-rehabilitateable according to research. They are nothing short of society’s rats and we all know what society does with rats when they are caught. Why are pedophiles any different?
OT … for all our local Oregonians here … truly sorry about your beloved Ducks. I was really rooting for them last night but unfortunately, it just didn’t happen. It was a great game though … close and a nail-biter at the end. I wish you all the luck next yr. Would love to see my Buckeyes and Ducks in it together next year! {:)
@Beejay …
A careful planner; in the same way that AS-S seems to be. (But not AS-S.) RS looks pretty buff; speaks English well; clients found him polite and a good communicator. Maybe there’s more like him at home, as they say.
~~~
YES! someone else describes RS as “buff”. I can absolutely go with this. Not the sterotypical illegal non-english speaking landscaper.
Associate would not necessarily be known in the skyline community but would be knowledgable of the Woodburn agricultural area … which is where Ubaldo’s nursery is located and just over from Canby where RS’s PO box is.
I raised the issue of lots of Sanchez related associates having PO Boxes at the Canby PO location. Blink asked me where I was going with this line of thinking, so I dropped it.
@Rose …
Here you go
Opportunist Sexual Predator Pedophile- Highly organized offender, serial.
No kids of his own, possible divorce.
Possibly dated someone with kids in the area.
Skills or resources to go underground quickly and for sustained periods of time.
Able to function undetected in the community, but familiar enough to fit in.
No electronic footprint, but has masterful IT skills
Has had access to Skyline prior to 6/4/10 possibly through work, which I would guess is construction/electric/plumbing related.
Before you ask, yes, I believe Kyron ran into him in the “Cool Electric” Science Fair displays.
I have no idea how he might be connected to TH or RS, and neither does MCSO or they would have a suspect.
If he is profiling low risk kids (in his opinion) it would be his MO to have been around his victims and have a level of understanding of their family dynamic.
In other words, he has assessed in advance.
Imo, that is the missing link. I believe they have a physical description of him, thus the facial recognition portion of the cameras and the statement it was an isolated incident. That is the only way that statement does not sound irresponsible to me.
47.beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Possibly something incriminating was found on it (or his other electronics) that lead him to cooperate on the purported-MFH sting. And to testify at the grand jury. The question is: incriminating of what possible crime? No one has told us yet.
~~~
If LE learned of RS by reviewing the cell phone of TH … i.e. sexting/pics … went to RS, after pulling up the history of 911 call between TH & RS … learned “wife” and kids missing … because they would have been in the 911 report, right? … put RS under suspicion, immediately … he denied involvement, but knew of MFH of husband … throwing the suspicion back onto TH.
Electronics are impounded and searched … exposing something? what?
I believed all along that the multiple arrests of illegals (for rape, drugs, trafficking) was related to the KyH investigation. Did RS rat them out in exchange for … what? And why wouldn’t RS be in custody, or is he?
beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Ode: you asked about the implantable GPS device, “…Are they going to tear it out?”
In a word: Yes, some would. Hard to believe, isn’t it? Harder to remove an implanted device than to cut off an ankle monitor, but doable. It’s not major surgery. We want someone to watch over them every second BEFORE they do something.
More importantly is that you set up a 24/7 monitoring situation that’s subject to tinkering, failure, and/or too expensive to actually do effectively.
**************
@justice23: Not sure a lobotomy would accomplish what is desired, but they’re too expensive anyway for society to take on. Surgical castration is much cheaper, quicker recovery, etc. And mostly does the job. (Ovaries removed for females; it’s mostly a male crime anyhow)
**************
Does anyone really think we could sell this in this country?
—————————————–
@beejay …
Of course not, unfortunately. But it’s just nice to dream is all. The frustration with these people is just overwhelming at times and sometimes these kinds of things are the only options that bring me comfort … if only for a little while.
@E-Rose …
might want to keep this in mind re: Elsie and kids
from Beejay post…
“May times we may tell you that children may be with their other parent. It may start out that way but when we ask for your help, the children may be hidden with someone else to throw us off. Please call if you know anything.”
link: http://kcchildsearch.com/child237.html
18.iodizedseasalt says:
January 11, 2011 at 8:11 am
In addition, investigators asked people to think back about whether they saw a white truck on or around Newberry Rd., Germantown Rd., Old Germantown Rd., Skyline Rd., Springville Rd., or Skyline Elementary School between 10:15 and 11:30 a.m. on the day Kyron vanished.”
http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Sheriff-to–100446244.html
~~~
I do think this was LE’s attempt to track TH’s white truck .. did she travel where she said she did .. but also to track a 2nd white truck .. the one that is now suspected of carrying KyH away from school.
Good morning everyone. I was just catching up on posts and saw what Justice23 and Mockingbirdsings were saying about ending up on sites accidentally. A few years ago my daughter was looking at a video on Youtube and some links posted in the comments took her to some outrageous porn sites. The stuff she saw, for FREE, was unbelieveable and so disgusting. She was only eleven. I was horrified that she saw those things. Of course, I realize it was my fault for not watching what she was doing and for not having proper safeguards on my computer. I learned from that the hard way.
Another thing I wanted to say, my husband and I often talk about how, when we were growing up (both born in 1970) we don’t remember ever worrying about playing outside, walking home from school, etc. Now we never let our children outside alone to play or ride bikes. They are so sheltered. Childhood is very different for them. So we discuss, did we not know about such things due to lack of media, or are there just so many more sick people out there? My husband’s theory is that long ago, if a person was sick in the head, he was isolated and thought he was alone in his sick thoughts and might not act on them. Now, if someone has those thoughts, he goes on the web and can find whole communites to support him, which makes him feel like he is not abnormal and not alone. So he is far more likely to act on his impulses. And also, that person will not only act, but the behavior will escalate. For instance, perhaps alone he would have just looked at naked pics, now he will peep in windows, which escalates to breaking into houses and attacking women at the urging of others in his online community. I think the web is so dangerous in so many ways.
Beejay says:
snip>
The biggest question I have right now: is this profiled-perp just some opportunistic sexual predator with a wide open shopping day on June 4 (or, more probably, with previous access to the school bldg and school routines)?
OR, is the profiled-perp actually RS and/or one of his associates, or a rat who came in the door with them? In our guessing game here, do we want to label as ‘mere coincidence’ the background events in Ky’s world in the weeks just before he disappeared?
~~~
I’m much more comfortable with scenario #2.
But didn’t we research this subject to death? What we miss?
enumclawrose says:
January 10, 2011 at 7:29 pm
If you click on the feedback all link on the FB page, I found this interesting (from another poster) on December 21st:
(name removed) Please keep praying for the Kincaid family. They are having a difficult Christmas season being separated from their Sunset family. They have been able to worship as a family in a church only when they are out of town. There are simply too many questions asked of them if they attend a local church. The children, especially, are missing their church family while not fully understanding the reasons for it.
I have been in touch with Jorie and am assured that they are physically well. There is no word on decisions made by the Sunset Commission. Hopefully this can be resolved shortly for us all.
Hmm … his family can only worship when they’re “out of town” otherwise “too many questions are asked” WTH??? WHAT questions? Regarding what? Sounds odd to me. WTH happened a few mths ago that statements like this are even being made? The timing does in fact seem strange to me.
Here is a posting from Oct 26th that was interesting and caught my attention:
(name withheld) I never enjoy my self so much, as when I see so many of us pulling together to help our fellow man/women, when I see people who hire their yard work done, braking there back to landscape a school yard, or the day each year when we wrap the toys, were else can you go shopping all day, and leave your wallet at home, or f…illing the food boxes, or just all of us who serve in so many ways on Sunday Morning, and the ones who come through out the week to help, and most people don’t even know how their helping, when I see these things my heart is filled with Joy.
Specifically the comment, “when I see people who hire (us to) have their yardwork done, breaking their back to landscape a school yard” — so Sunset does landscaping/yardwork for people in the area that are “in need” I am supposing. Did TMH possibly contact any of these people before Ky’s disappearance? How much do we really know about the landscaper that says he answered TMH’s ad but wasn’t chosen and never heard anything back from her? Do we really KNOW that for sure or are we only taking his word on it? Assuming LE has checked into this mths ago.
enumclawrose says:
January 10, 2011 at 4:45 pm
The way one of the links Beejay submitted reads, makes me think LE believes that something could have “happened” to the mother.
My $$$ is on #2.
————————
@eclaw …
May I ask exactly what you’re suspicion maybe is on that “happening” thing? You’ve peaked my curiousity and wondering where you’re going with it.
Zeus says: More and more, every day-I get the feeling there is a huge conspiracy with a slimy foundation built on abusing our kids.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I personally witnessed a situation in a south east state that led me to believe exactly the same thing. Seven years ago a little girl’s daddy was suspected by her mom of molesting the child. Mom followed dad and child to a motel one night and discovered parked out front five very nice vehicles (BMS’s, Mercedes, etc…), all rentals, with out of state license plates.
This was an extremely rural deep south motel. Mom took pictures of the cars and the license plates. She documented everything, including finding blisters between her little girls legs, etc…
Her husbands father lived two doors away and was retired KY sheriff. Had many police friends. Mom wound up dead under suspicious circumstances and the police beyond botched the investigation. One of the investigators, a woman, was interested in getting down to what had happened but she was removed from the case. When the mom’s family attempted to protect the little girl, going to DSS, the police, even to court, they were threatened to never see the child again by the sitting judge, who was creepy as heck. Video equipment was found set up in a large shed out back of the little girls home with witnesses indicating men came and went from the shed, the grandpa and dad were witnessed coaching the little girl prior to and during an interview with social workers, dad admitted to sticking his finger in the little girls bum, grandpa and dad admitted to sleeping with the little girl, dad had bestiality porn on his computer that his deceased wife had printed out and saved, and much more…
Little girl is still with her dad and pervert grandpa, who by the way calls her his ‘little lady’ and sleeps with her… both men sleep with her. Her dad shaves her legs. She’s now ten. When she visits her deceased mom’s family she does very inappropriate sexual things but the family can do nothing because they were told they would never get to see her again by a sitting judge if they ever try.
zeus says:
January 11, 2011 at 4:50 am
>>Tech companies want Boy Scout perversion files blocked<<
Won't take link so just add http in front of
://www.komonews.com/news/local/113254759.html
__________________________
More and more, every day-I get the feeling there is a huge conspiracy with a slimy foundation built on abusing our kids.
So now a bunch of tech companies DO NOT want the infamous "boy scout" perv files made public. Can we say "worried about certain tech members"? Because I don't believe that crap about their sudden fear of trade secrets getting out-too easy, too suspect…
What the eff?
B
—————–
@zeus …
Posting complete link for you … it worked for me.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/113254759.html
zeus says:
January 11, 2011 at 4:50 am
Blink says:
What the eff?
B
——————————
@Blink …
What does this all mean besides the obvious? Are we really onto something regarding the Boy Scout trail? Does it relate to Ky in anyway? Wow … just wow. What are these people REALLY afraid of? I agree with zeus … just WRONG on SO MANY LEVELS.
@Bejay
In your research have you found anything that
Looks like RS is still in town
beejay–my sincere thanks for explaining surgical castration for those of us who only knew it as removal of the penis. I feel strongly that any consideration for this solution to pedophilia belongs in the psychiatric/medical arena and not in the judicial arena.
Gee guys … all my posts are awaiting moderation and all in a row … I feel like I’m monopolizing the board this morning. Please forgive in advance … was catching up this morning and had lots to comment on.
Another comment from Sunset FB page by outside poster claims “wounding of people” in regard to whatever is up with RK’s admin leave. No idea what that means, but getting more and more intrigued by this trail we’re sleuthing lately. How many of you really think it applies to Ky? Blink?
(poster name removed) I think it must also tap into people’s woundings. I think it would mine, if I heard that my pastor was wounding people to the degree that is being claimed. But, again, I had a problem elevating my former pastor—thinking he was super-human and above these kinds of things. I think this presents a huge opportunity for healing across the board—not only for your Pastor Ron, but for the entire church body.
It would be interesting to know who might have a private
plane out of all these people
I suppose LE has checked it out
another one bites the dust … this PTD SO has Medford connection
http://www.oregonlive.com/washingtoncounty/index.ssf/2010/12/director_of_community_relation.html
Court records say that Costa continued to contact the boy online after the encounter, and that Costa, along with his friend, John Ainerd Dougal, 42, also of Portland, arranged to meet the boy again at the Medford hotel. The affidavit says that on May 5 Dougal and Costa engaged in sex acts with the boy at the hotel, and that Costa and Dougal photographed each other during the acts.
The boy’s mother reportedly learned of the incidents and contacted police.
Dougal is a co-defendant in the case and is accused of producing child pornography, and possessing child pornography, according to court records.
FBI agents and Medford police officers arrested Costa and Dougal on Monday, and the two were booked into the Multnomah County Jail, according to Beth Anne Steele, FBI spokeswoman. They were transported to Medford for a court appearance Tuesday, Steele said.
The SO program did not close, the other inmates were distributed to operating prisons. Interesting how one of the SO’s interviewed said he would find his victims at church.
_________________________________
12.Amy’s Sister says:
January 11, 2011 at 1:39 am
$165,000 per year per inmate to operate. Costly. Wonder what happened to all the offenders when McNeil closed?
Sorry if I implied otherwise. I would go for it if it is part of an overall solution, too.
47.beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 8:31 pm
@mosaic, e-rose, others: I didn’t suggestion surgical castration as my personal solution. Though I might go for it as part of an overall solution simply as a pragmatic matter, because it works. BTW, it is not mutilation.
Malty says:
January 10, 2011 at 11:47 pm
Let’s see if I even know what is going on
Kyron was see leaving with SZ
however no one has a phyical ID on him
is that right?
No one knows if he is tall or short
old or young
what color of hair
or how he was dressed
Is this close ??
I am serious
he may or not be a pedo
He may have left on a plane
or killed Kyron on SI
is this about where we are at?
I don’t see how we can state Kyron was seen leaving with SZ but no description of SZ exists. I think there’s been a huge jump to the conclusion that there is some super-pedo involved just because we have no information that Kyron was seen with TH when she left the school building. Too big of a jump for me without more information and/or evidence.
Elsy and her children need to be found. What type of car does Elsy drive? Does she drive? Did she use public transportation? Did she have a outside job? Do people who live in that house belong or work at a gym? How many cars are registered to that rental house address? I think the owners of that house that these companies keep being established from need to be identified. Has that property been searched? What time are school buses on that Germantown road? Would it be a time that kindergarten students would be being bused to or from school? Could one of the bus drivers have seen that white truck while in route to pick up or drop off students?
I still think it’s interesting that the judge in this case choose to retire before the scheduled Jan 6 court date. I think he is only 62 which is an age that some people do retire but it will reduce the amount of his social security if he starts drawing it at 62 instead of 65 or 68. Maybe the stress of this high profile case was starting to affect him. JMO
I also think that the delay works for TH’s camp because
If at the feb 1st LE deadline she is charged in the kidnapping case, or MFH and incarcerated then any amount of timer and effort spent now arguing that she should have visitation/custody would seem to be kind of a waste of time.
If she is not charged with anything by the Feb 1st date or even cleared at that time. Then it would seem that her getting visitation/custody would be easier, in that part of the reason for denying her visitation/custody are the charges that may be pending against her.
====
For the Kaine camp it means that they have to wait that much longer to get TH in front of a judge to perhaps get some info out of her about Kyrons disappearance .
And If they go to court now while she is still a de facto suspect in the kidnapping case perhaps they would have more ammo against her in a visitation/custody ruling.
AlthoughI think if she is charged and incarcerated on Feb 1st then the KH side of the visitation/custody battle is pretty much a sure thing.
Sorry to keep asking for pointers, but I have trouble finding Tony Phipps in the RSO registry. I would be interested in finding what car he drives. I saw somebody in a lime green car at a school yesterday that looked like him.
REFRESHER: THE PROFILE
40.justice4kyron says:
December 14, 2010 at 12:01 am
“I think suspect zero in this case has a description, but that’s it. I pray I am wrong.
B
**It is a commonly used investigative term when there is no suspect but a profile.
B
**
Blink, can you please share suspect zero’s description/profile with us?
Prayers for Kyron
Opportunist Sexual Predator Pedophile- Highly organized offender, serial.
No kids of his own, possible divorce.
Possibly dated someone with kids in the area.
Skills or resources to go underground quickly and for sustained periods of time.
Able to function undetected in the community, but familiar enough to fit in.
No electronic footprint, but has masterful IT skills
Has had access to Skyline prior to 6/4/10 possibly through work, which I would guess is construction/electric/plumbing related.
Before you ask, yes, I believe Kyron ran into him in the “Cool Electric” Science Fair displays.
I have no idea how he might be connected to TH or RS, and neither does MCSO or they would have a suspect.
If he is profiling low risk kids (in his opinion) it would be his MO to have been around his victims and have a level of understanding of their family dynamic. In other words, he has assessed in advance
Imo, that is the missing link. I believe they have a physical description of him, thus the facial recognition portion of the cameras and the statement it was an isolated incident. That is the only way that statement does not sound irresponsible to me.
He will set off some people’s “satellites”, but with no obvious justification. An example-
one day Blinkette and I were walking through the parking lot at the mall somewhere and a guy passed us on my left. I do not know why but since my kids were born, I have always put myself between them and a stranger in every situation. If we are walking down the sidewalk and one or both is on my left and I see someone approaching ( does not have to mean that they are suspect, could be a perfectly lovely elderly lady) I always move to their left- I was not even really aware I did it without fail until this incident in particular.
Anyway… Blinkette says Mommy, that guy is a bad dude and a creep, I mean, like a perv, really bad.
I was like, really, what makes you say that? She answered, I don’t know, I just know he is, it was a vibe, he creeped me out.
I tried to press her for exactly what had “spooked” her. Did he look at her in an inappropriate way, etc? It was odd to me that she would pick up on that and I did not, my mommysense is forever in overdrive, how can this be?
The simple answer is that children pick up things we do not. The most important piece of advice I could ever impart to a parent is to teach your children to L I S T E N to those little messages without compromise. Teach them, and REWARD them for telling you about them and your communication with them will stay open.
Most importantly, do not ever doubt them when they share it with you, regardless of your personal assessment of it.
The exercise is to teach them to be responsible for their personal safety and to develop intuitively.
Conversely, when they are old enough, share with them when your satellites go off in their presence-
Example: The other day Blink Jr, Blinkette and I were shopping for materials for a project for school. Blinkette as usual is off in the store 50 yards away as soon as we enter, lol.
There was a Man that crossed my path, I had already heard his raspy overly loud voice and on-sight it had me stop what I was doing and gather Blinkette by our side. The funny thing was he was their with his teenage daughter, who was wearing a uniform from one of the most expensive prep schools in the area.
As I got a little closer to him, there was no doubt in my mind he was high on something. His eyes were red and bloodshot and wide open as if someone stuck toothpicks in them vertically, his mannerisms and gait were off, and he was oddly picking up items and just putting them back in weird places.
I gave Blinkette the “eyeball” and we went to the other side of the store, and I heard the girl say to her Dad-
“Dad, what is your deal, if you yell my name like that one more time, I swear.. what’s up with you today?”
They left, we finished our business, and when we got in the car I discussed it with the kids.
It is really our only way of arming them as best we can against a predator.
B
@ beejay:
“At the same time we make it tougher for those who abuse children in any way…”
———————–
Oh, yes! As one who experienced years of sexual abuse in childhood, beejay, I’m with you more than completely. It sounds like my post suggested otherwise. In fact, the call to arms over Oregon’s idiotic rulings, the DOD, and Kyron, of course, was inciting my “off with their ba–s!” response. Then I recalled this incident at my house. It reminded me that, as mosaic said, thorough investigation is required to prevent civilian casualties in our “war on pervs.” That’s all. Sorry for the confusion…
29.justice23 says:
January 11, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Gee guys … all my posts are awaiting moderation and all in a row … I feel like I’m monopolizing the board this morning. Please forgive in advance … was catching up this morning and had lots to comment on.
~~~
lol … I’ve got 6 in moderation … was wondering where everybody went?