Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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@neighbor: OR State Police maintain that registry and it’s infuriating in the lag time. I can’t find him thru theirs or any other registry. But if he’s out roaming, and it appears he is, as a homeless man I assume his vehicle will vary depending on whose he borrows at the time.
Nevertheless, if he’s roaming and supposed to be registered, and still living in Lane County, then here’s the place to call (and maybe also find out where to view him on a registry):
Contact Us
541-682-3916
Unit Supervisor, Sex Offender Supervision
Andrea Schlesinger
Go here for links and more info:
http://www.lanecounty.org/departments/sheriff/corrections/pp/pages/sexoffender.aspx
BTW, how is everybody holding up there? Anyone getting antsy for some further details?
didn’t we have the conversation, a couple of months back, about a 2nd white truck and wasn’t it’s existence verified by B?
Why is it important to find Elsy and her children?
Dearest Blink,
I know you’re madly busy today–trying to straighten out the OR Supremes and all (and TY for that!)–and we need to cut you some slack. We’re all so full of energy to DO something here.
So, I want to thank you very much for reassuring us that we’re not off-track in pursuing the RS connection. You’ve been quiet on the subject and I was afraid you knew it to be a dead end. So, TY very much for responding to my own post to Puzzled–below.
________________
Puzzled: Blink is our leader. I’m hoping she’ll tell us if–and why–SHE is no longer focusing on RS and associates as she did for so long. [beejay's post; Blink's response below:]
How does anyone think an individual who clearly admitted involvement in a MFH plot, to some level of complicity, gets a pass?
B
This is what I took away from the article Beejay posted, what I felt was the IMPORTANT part:
beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 8:31 pm
______________________
PRAGUE — Pavel remembers the violent night sweats two days before the murder. He went to see a family doctor, who said they would go away. But after viewing a Bruce Lee martial arts film, he said, he felt uncontrollable sexual desires. He invited a 12-year-old neighbor home. Then he stabbed the boy repeatedly.
His psychiatrist says Pavel derived his sexual pleasure from the violence.
**************
I am SO not okay with a violent offender like Pavel getting out of prison EVER! He viciously stabbed to death his 12 year old neighbor. I don’t effing CARE that he is leading a “productive life” now–in fact–it pisses me off! I’m sure the family of the boy he murdered isn’t jumping up and down with joy about the fact that Mr. Pavel is now a gardener at a church–doing his work right by lots of children (as it states in the article). I’m pretty sure they are sickened by it…..
___________________
Here is what the father of another boy murdered by a pedophile had to say in this same article:
Hynek Blasko, Jakub’s father, expressed indignation that human rights groups were putting the rights of criminals ahead of those of victims. “My personal tragedy is that my son is in heaven and he is never coming back, and all I have left of him is 1.5 kilograms of ashes,” he said in an interview. “No one wants to touch the rights of the pedophiles, but what about the rights of a 9-year-old boy with his life ahead of him?”
_________________________
1.5 kilograms of freaking ashes-that’s all they have left….
__________
I say castrate them AND keep them in prison. I really don’t care how much that costs and I would be willing, on my limited income to pay bigger taxes just for that. Gladly! I bet all of us would. I want those monsters PUNISHED, hard and forever–and castrating them, then sending them out into society with a “lalala, have fun, be good, enjoy life” philosophy is NEVER going to cut it for me!
I’d apologize, but I’m not sorry about my feelings.
zeus says:
January 11, 2011 at 4:50 am
>>Tech companies want Boy Scout perversion files blocked<<
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/113254759.html
SNIPPED
The case began when six men, all identified as Jack Doe, sued the Boy Scouts.
One of them, who was molested in the 1980s by an assistant Scoutmaster, separated his suit and won $1.4 million in damages and an $18.5 million punitive award from the Boy Scouts, the organization's Cascade Pacific Council and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
The assistant Scoutmaster acknowledged the abuse of the man in a deposition before trial. The groups settled with the five other men. Now, two other men have sued.
————–
@Zeus – Thanks for posting that, I put the link above, it works. This portion of the article is in reference to Timur Van Dykes.
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16.Amy's Sister says:
January 11, 2011 at 1:39 am
41.enumclawrose says:
January 10, 2011 at 7:40 pm
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Dangerous-Sex-Offenders-Confined-on-an-Island
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Snipped)
$165,000 per year per inmate to operate. Costly. Wonder what happened to all the offenders when McNeil closed?
*********************
@ERose- Great article about McNeil, thank you for sharing. I definitely recommend reading it to everyone. It is almost criminal that it was closed, IMHO.
@Amy's sister- IMHO is isn't too costly. Spread those numbers out over the population and it's not much per person. Wash. State has a population of approx. 6.7 million, works out to about three bucks and some change per person if solely paid for by tax payers. I'd gladly pay that to get and keep these SOs off the streets permanently and protect our kids.
So, rather that all the impossible, never going to happen ideas of yesterday, here we have a very feasible and effective solution. IMHO McNeil was a great example of what can be done and works. And it was closed, which really pizzes me off. So, back to castration which has also been proven to work, and that is okay with me, too.
********************************
Jden says:
January 11, 2011 at 9:31 am
@Jden – Well said, yes, it most certainly takes a village. The shooting in Tucson was horrific and senseless. I lived there for about 6 months and it used to be a nice place. I won't say anything more since it is O/T and I have strong feelings about many things.
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SadieBlue says:
January 11, 2011 at 10:57 am
@SadieBlue- I was just thinking about the same thing last night. Great post! I agree with you and your DH. IMHO the web is an internet highway to Hell in many ways. Sometimes I think it will be out ultimate undoing. Sigh…
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RE: RS Blink says:
How does anyone think an individual who clearly admitted involvement in a MFH plot, to some level of complicity, gets a pass?
B
Blink, with all due respect, it appears he has in some form or another, unless there are sealed indictments. Either way, we are not privy to the details of what has transpired btwn. LE and him in the past 7 months. It is just bizarre.
************************
I read through all those comments on the SPC link. IIRC Becky Owens was the member there rather than MC. Anyway, I get the gist that the Pastor has gotten angry and mean with certain staff in an unacceptable way. That's all I got out of it. Lots of politics going on in those big churches, eh? IMHO it is certainly possible that our SZ is a member there, I know lots of Pedos look for victims in churches. How many stories have we read and heard about that? Sick.
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Where the heck is Riverpearl?
When I was in in first grade, the school bus let me off about an 1/8th of a mile from my house. I lived in a rural area just outside the Portland city limits. One day a man in a red car stopped and asked me to come with him. He told me that my Mom had said it would be OK. I always did everything an adult told me to, but on that day, for a reason I’ll never know, I refused. I walked on home and told my Mom. She called the school and the principal brushed her off. Nothing ever became of it.
That happened in 1971.
Our government and schools aren’t perfect, but I believe they’ve come a long way. Working as a criminal defense investigator, Ive found that despite my experience back in the first grade, children have the most to fear from the people they know.
@beejay says “Your screen resolution must be better than mine because she could be hispanic from what I see.”
I have seen them on other occasions.
50.neighbor says:
January 11, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Sorry to keep asking for pointers, but I have trouble finding Tony Phipps in the RSO registry. I would be interested in finding what car he drives. I saw somebody in a lime green car at a school yesterday that looked like him.
*****************************************
IIRC, Weren’t you the poster who was asking about a lime green car
a few pages back?
The reason I ask is because I remember seeing someone posting about that, but don’t remember why or what the specifics about a green car were.
Would you refresh my memory please?
Also, I had posted a day or two ago that I couldn’t find Phipps in the system either.
Amy’s Sister says:
January 11, 2011 at 11:45 am
*****************
Oh Amy’s Sister-your story about that little girl has me crying! Why in the hell are things like that allowed to happen? I want to find her and promise her that somehow, it will all be okay and she will be protected. And none of us can do that… Why can’t anyone help her-why?
justice23 says:
January 11, 2011 at 1:07 pm
************
Thanks Justice! I don’t know why I couldn’t get it to link. Appreciate the help!
#
enumclawrose says:
January 11, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Sorry if I implied otherwise. I would go for it if it is part of an overall solution, too.
47.beejay says:
January 10, 2011 at 8:31 pm
@mosaic, e-rose, others: I didn’t suggestion surgical castration as my personal solution. Though I might go for it as part of an overall solution simply as a pragmatic matter, because it works. BTW, it is not mutilation.
**********************************************************************
I have always been told that surgical castration wouldn’t work because it is not truly a sexual crime. It is their need to control and abuse. This can be done with foreign objects. It is mental for them not physical. These are the sickest of humans if you can call them that.
Now surgical removal of the brain would work.
Sanchez, Ubaldo
34 Portland, OR Available
Sanchez, Gomez Ubaldo
Get Details…
Sanchez, Ubaldo
49 Woodburn, OR Available
Get Details…
Sanchez Bautist, Ubaldo
Possible Aka’s:
SANCHEZ, UBALDO
34 Astoria, OR Available
Sanchez, Bautista Ubaldo
*************************************
This still bugs the crap outta me.
2 Ubaldo’s, one with the middle initial of “F”
and one with the middle initial of “R”
My question, could Ubaldo R, being an alias for RS?
Idahogal-
The general prison was closed. The SO program is still going, not closed.
______________________________________________________________
@ERose- Great article about McNeil, thank you for sharing. I definitely recommend reading it to everyone. It is almost criminal that it was closed, IMHO.
crap, I forgot my link for above.
its veromi people directory,
if i post it it won’t take my comment.
A week or two ago, I found an associate who has an electrical business, and yes it’s out of the “woodburn” local we have discussed.
It was around the same time Blink had asked us not to post anything we couldn’t vet or wasnt case relevant.
Has anyone else found this associate and business?
I found it on Veromi business directory, using the same last name as
RS
Blink says: … “I know that they were already aware there was nobody parked on the access road and the pic was photoshopped” … B
Puzzled says: … Does this mean there was no 2nd white truck and how does this info impact the two white truck theory @ Skyline and later @ FM ?
Blink says: … There was definately an additional white truck. It was not parked on the access road.
B
~~~
Two white trucks … could have been 5 or 8 white trucks that day, for all we know. Question is … are there two white trucks implicted in Kyh’s disappearance? first being the Horman truck … second is ????
Justice23
The quote from Beejay’s original link as Puzzled posts. It sounds as though Elsie may not be with her children which may or may not be by choice. It implies that these children may not be with their mother. Why would that be? Either she left her children with someone she trusts or she no longer has a say.
I think about the fact that this woman abducted with her children on May 19 and the earliest missing information we can find comes out almost a MONTH (June 16) later. Then on July 17 (‘nother MONTH) a warrant is issued.
Correlated to Ky’s timeline, she leaves ten days after TH’s 911 call, ten days before the sting the public is somewhat notified and then another month later, the warrant.
Here is where my logic takes me:
In their investigation of TH, LE sees that she made a 911 call in May about RS. They track him down and through their interrogation find that Elsie is no longer available for questions. Why? She just up and took the kids. Hmmmm.
___________________________________________________________
29.puzzled says:
January 11, 2011 at 10:45 am
@E-Rose …
might want to keep this in mind re: Elsie and kids
from Beejay post…
“May times we may tell you that children may be with their other parent. It may start out that way but when we ask for your help, the children may be hidden with someone else to throw us off. Please call if you know anything.”
link: http://kcchildsearch.com/child237.html
___________________________________________________________________
35.justice23 says:
January 11, 2011 at 11:29 am
enumclawrose says:
January 10, 2011 at 4:45 pm
The way one of the links Beejay submitted reads, makes me think LE believes that something could have “happened” to the mother.
My $$$ is on #2.
————————
@eclaw …
May I ask exactly what you’re suspicion maybe is on that “happening” thing? You’ve peaked my curiousity and wondering where you’re going with it.
Justice23
BTW, are we to take the word of RS (if that is indeed where this story came from) that Elsie and the kids left on the 19th? How could he tell LE the 9th, afterall, they might assume she did not disappear by choice.
Puz, Don’t know where the quote is, but Blink has stated that TH’s truck was parked on the shoulder and another truck was parked in the rear. From what I gather, at LEAST two white trucks.
______________________________________
4.puzzled says:
January 11, 2011 at 5:52 pm
didn’t we have the conversation, a couple of months back, about a 2nd white truck and wasn’t it’s existence verified by B?
Don’t apologize, me either. I think the only disagreement you will get from anyone on this site is that we protect the innocent that are wrongly accused. If we are 100% sure of their guilt then…
7.zeus says:
January 11, 2011 at 6:41 pm
…..sending them out into society with a “lalala, have fun, be good, enjoy life” philosophy is NEVER going to cut it for me!
I’m gonna toss my hat into the ring and agree with everyone who wants to castrate peds. I think life in prison, death, exile, or whatever it takes to keep them away from civilization would be great. Unfortunately, in a democracy, the state can’t whack a guys manberries off – that’s a form of tribal or religious law and we don’t roll like that here (not yet, thank God). But in my heart and after years of working with abuse survivors I would love to see them all suffer for the rest of their lives on earth and afterward.
That being said, I have some questions… the energy here has been micro focused on SZ and trying to figure out, based on not very much, who he is. I’m curious about his profile: is this based on a professional FBI profiler’s opinion, with no actual physical evidence? I’m confused about why we seem to have given Terri a pass at the moment, when she is the one with motive, opportunity and saw Ky last.
My gut feeling about RS is that LE approached him for questioning and he confessed that the crazy bitch he was boinking offered him money to whack her husband. That doesn’t mean he was knee deep in a plot or a conspiracy. Now, you or I would have gone to the police STAT with that info, but it’s no surprise that a man of color wouldn’t think of approaching LE on his own. Minorities often steer clear of authorities due to a lifetime of bad experiences, many based on race. So I for one, cannot indite him without more info.
My thinking drifts toward Terri working in concert with someone else – she directing and planning and he the one we think of as SZ. I think a likely partner for something this heinous could be a steroid popping, hyper-sexualized gym rat/drug dealer/user or crony. What men did she hang out with at the gym?? Who did she get her roids from?? Why aren’t we at least looking there???
The temporarily exiled pastor from Sunset Pres – doesn’t he have a few children who attend Skyline? I’m not a fan of anyone who asks people to part with their money in the name of God but I don’t see him as overly smarmy.
For those of you who were molested as children, and please forgive me I can’t remember your names at this particular moment, I think you are so brave to allow the darkness of this case to enter your lives. I wish you continued recovery and know it is possible to come out the other side of abuse strong and whole. Bless you for helping seek answers and justice for our tree frog prince.
This may be old news but the Oregon SOS now lists two businesses under RS that I haven’t seen before: GRACI’S and MELAGUE’S CONSTRUCTION both in Hood River.
justice23 says:
January 11, 2011 at 10:16 am
“thank you Ode … I needed a good laugh today. You made me feel much better! Oh … and I completely agree with you. GPS, then castration, then you’re out. They are completely non-productive members of society and are un-rehabilitateable according to research. They are nothing short of society’s rats and we all know what society does with rats when they are caught. Why are pedophiles any different?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bingo, Justice. You mentioned research and rats. Rats are useful for something…research. Why not pedos, too? They can be “forced” to contribute to society in a constructive manner. They could live in isolated, low-maintenance communities while earning their keep as research subjects and for suppliers of spare parts.
How does anyone think an individual who clearly admitted involvement in a MFH plot, to some level of complicity, gets a pass?
B
————–
Could it be because even though he has confessed to being part of an MFH plot LE has no evidence that there really ever was an MFH plot.
Blink Is there some reason LE has not requested help (search and Rescue) TES or (consulting experts)Team Adam. I hope they are not overextending themselves being too close and emotionally involved.I hope MCSD has been running parallel investigations.The failure to issue Amber Alert with all the White Truck discussion has me puzzled.Do you know why the family has not requested the help from either of the above? This case is so high profile yet very little help from media and or these two organizations. With the cost reaching such a high level ,not utilizing services which cost local LE and family nothing. WHY? I hope not irresponsible? If the SZ is known,(isolated incident)but not known, and still out there, how it that not a puplic threat to the other children. Unless they have him where they are keeping him out of site and in “custody” Otherwise I see him as a threat IMO.
In Kyron’s case, I would be against volunteer search organizatons for a variety of reasons, I think the case and terrain call for professionals only.
B
Would be interested to know more about the crew of volunteers via SPC, Event: “The Church Leaves the Building”. This duty was for blackberry overgrowth and trash cleanup at an abandoned lot.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/event.php?eid=326668861290&index=1
IIRC, Terri had posted a status on her facebook page, it said something like this “spent the day removing blackberry bushes, cleaning gutters, exhausted and waiting for hubby to get his @ss home. (Does anyone remember the date of her post?).
Wondering if Terri had any help with those bushes…maybe someone was referred from the same crew from SPC?
After reading backwards … about 20+ pages … and re-reading the really good posts by really good sleuthers, who have searched and re-searched the Associates … and before we start on the merry-go-round again, consider this …
if SZ is an “associate” … and he’s hispanic (I assume) … and there’s a description … why hasn’t LE gone after “him” or RS or somebody from that area? Is it because SZ left the area with KyH and no one knows beyond that? In a similiar way that Elsie & kids disappeared? that’s the connection?
iodizedseasalt says:
January 11, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Why is it important to find Elsy and her children?
@iodizedseasalt – I think it is important to find Elsy and her children to answer the question of whether their disappearance is simply a custodial issue, completely unrelated to the Horman case, or whether her disappearance and the timing of it was related in someway to Kyron’s disappearance.
Some options are:
(1) She witnessed / knew something / heard about something that made her flee with her children.
(2) She was herself taken and/or killed because of information or knowledge that she had/has.
(3) She was moved by someone with her children for their protection from events or people that were to take place or had taken place.
(4) She was somehow involved in the disappearance and/or still is.
Or of course the alternative is that they are completely unrelated. Either way I think it would be helpful to know the answers to these questions that have been floating around from very early on. Who are Elsy and the kids? Where are they? and Are they somehow related to his case?
@ puzzled says:
January 11, 2011 at 1:59 pm
__________
Puzzled, your man just plead not-guilty, so he hasn’t bitten the dust yet, nor has his sometimes-lover. Medford PD involved, but the man lives in Portland–nice house in Sunset Hills area, not far from Sunset Presbyterian Church. Anybody around there wanna run with this dude or his “friend”? They alledgedly recruited a kid online, filmed their sex acts with him, etc. Or is this OT?
http://www.oregonlive.com/hillsboro/index.ssf/2011/01/fired_tuality_healthcare_director_pleads_not_guilty_in_child_pornography_case.html
***************
@Malty: I have no idea where RS is, but I know that some people are trying to find him. Maybe he has the capacity to go underground for a long period of time???
**************
We’re in ice-related power outtages here. I may be out of contact for awhile. Good to see BOC’s server back up.
If Blink will allow this, I just want to refer you guys to the comments made by the students of an Oregon teacher who’s been indicted on child porn charges, held in Wash county jail. Because we need to see how much they trusted him, and are still defending him, despite the charges. And one student granting him “a mistake” even assuming he is found guilty as charged.
While I admire his students’ compassion, they’re very young in the development of their judgment skills. Read and weep:
http://www.beaverjournal.com/2010/12/24/sherwood-man-charged-with-possession-of-child-pornography/
Blink,
Do you believe there is any possibility that some of the individuals involved in this case are undercover agents and or informants whom LE is trying to protect the undercover status of while still moving forward the investigation?
For example(and this is completely theoretical), RS is actually a LEA who has spent a considerable amount of time building his undercover credibility as part of a drug investigation. Obviously they know he did not take Kyron, but they can’t come out and say that they know he didn’t do it and why, so they have to work around this to keep his credibility up and not blow his cover. Not because they are putting the original drug case in front of Kyron, but because if one of the RS “Associates” is actually involved, then the best option is to keep that individual unaware of the true identity RS. RS’s best ability to assist in the Kyron investigation would be to remain undercover.
Please don’t read the above as a working theory. I know it is completely OUT THERE!!! The intent is more just to consider the idea that two investigations might have bumped into each other and this has caused complications in the investigation and is causing the need for LE to tread extremely lightly in everything they do and keep as little information from getting out as possible.
Or they just don’t want to share information with the public because they think it will hurt their case to do so!!! The simpler answer.
Is it thought that Elsy left with her children because she found out about TH and may know something about Kyron? Does anyone think she has Kyron?
@enumclawrose says:
January 10, 2011 at 4:45 pm
“Beejay, I think you have found the earliest release of the missing children.
What makes me think there is a connection to this case, over all of the coincidences, is the first names of the children. The only DIRECT name search hits of RS is Jaime and Ubaldo. What are the odds that someone names their children these two specific names, after RS’s brothers and then goes missing just before the largest missing child case in Oregon where he is being implicated by the de facto suspect he was having an affair with?”
I’m having a memory of something I think I read here months ago– could be wrong (of course). It had to do with how illegals get SS#’s. Did I read that they often take the numbers of young children born in the US? If so, could this be why the children are named Ubaldo and Jaime, to provide new SS#s to the brothers? Just a thought, could be it doesn’t work this way at al.
As far as the landscapers culpability for the murder for hire” plot; I question whether he actually violated any law. From what I’ve read, we know almost nothing about the “plot”. Obviously, Kaine is not dead. In an early article by Blink, it was mentioned that no money changed hands. It may be illegal to solicit for murder, but it is not illegal to have some crazy woman come up to you and ask you to kill her husband. He may have had a moral obligation to inform LE or KH, but I don’t know if Oregon laws requires that.
The only crime I can see that he may have committed would be conspiracy to murder. But, since we don’t know how serious the plot was, how far along it got, or even why is was called off, we don’t know if he is legally culpable in this matter.
We “know” so little about this MFH plot, that I think we all interpret this differently, and this leads us to interpret subsequent events differently. Was the MFH:
1) A lie by the LS to lead LE away from him
2) A misunderstanding by a person whose primary language is not English
3) An emotion redhead ranting and venting
4) An offhand comment taken too far
5) An emotionally labile woman who came to her senses
6) A full-blown plot that derailed late in the plan (lack of money, couldn’t find a hitman, etc)
7) Or the ever-popular TH decided to disappear Kyron instead.
This is an incident central to our understanding of the case, but we know almost nothing about it.
@Beejay ….
@Malty: I have no idea where RS is, but I know that some people are trying to find him. Maybe he has the capacity to go underground for a long period of time???
~~~
not just blinksters I assume
Blink,
Not sure if server related, but I have 5 comments in moderation beginning 01/11 @ 7:59 pm.
working on it and my apollies to all, we had server maint. last night, and then again whenever it felt like it until I screamed loud enough, apparently.
B
Example of a homicide case in Philadelphia that will go forward to trial without a body being found:
http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20110112/NEWS/110112038/DA+to+seek+death+for+Pa.+slaying++even+if+no+body
The circumstantial evidence appears to be very strong in the Pennsylvania case. There are eyewitnesses and blood evidence. This is the type of evidence LE is going to need if it brings charges against someone in Kyron’s case.
In the spirit of re-covering old ground, did ‘we’ collectively rule out the possibility of Jason Wishart and/or family having any involvement in Ky’s disappearance?
Just revisiting SZ’s profile; JW and family have always given me the creeps.
Puzzled: your question depends on this assumption, “if SZ is an “associate” … and he’s hispanic (I assume) … and there’s a description.”
And, there may NOT be a description. As I understand Blink, she “believes” there’s a description. But she hasn’t said she “knows” there’s a description (i.e, has been told there is evidence for it). Am I right?
@Bejay
or anyone
what exactly is going under ground?
I thought Elsy left before Kyron
women do leave a man who plays
but since there is real concern about her I hope she is safe
It seems like people are all disappearing off the blogs and
in this case
hope we get some news of Kyron soon
iodizedseasalt says:
January 12, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Is it thought that Elsy left with her children because she found out about TH and may know something about Kyron? Does anyone think she has Kyron?
************
I have always wondered if Elsy went into hiding first (whether by her own choice-or not)so as to provide the place that Kyron would ultimately be taken to. I know that sounds like crazy talk, but it really does seem suspicious that she disappeared with her two kids and then shortly after that, Kyron disappeared. I know it all may be completely unrelated….but what if?
Malty says:
January 12, 2011 at 5:02 pm
It seems like people are all disappearing off the blogs and
in this case
hope we get some news of Kyron soon
~~~~~~~
My guess is everyone is actually still here. However we have beaten this horse so much it is becoming unrecognizable.
I’m still here! Just waiting for Kyron to come home.
Sounds like Washington/Oregon. Collective SCREAMS in the wooded rural areas and then the sound of generators firing up, however internet cannot, as yet, be run off the generator, much less the server. Hang in, just over 60 days ’til spring.
working on it and my apollies to all, we had server maint. last night, and then again whenever it felt like it until I screamed loud enough, apparently.
B
Shannon says:
January 12, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Blink,
Do you believe there is any possibility that some of the individuals involved in this case are undercover agents and or informants whom LE is trying to protect the undercover status of while still moving forward the investigation?
——————————
I once had a theory that TH inquired about a MFH to RS and RS contacted some else in his organization to actually do the hit. I thought that maybe the person that RH contacted in his organization to do the hit was an undercover law enforcement person. and that said undercover LE person was actually working on another case. That would explain why TH has never been charged in the MFH. LE’s witness to backup RH’s story can’t testify against TH because it would blow his cover. So maybe eventually we will see TH charged for the MFH.
Malty says:
January 12, 2011 at 5:02 pm
It seems like people are all disappearing off the blogs and
in this case
hope we get some news of Kyron soon
****************************************************************************
Agree with you Malty.
I check in here multiple times a day – praying for any news to keep Kyron’s name in the spotlight.
It’s sad to have to scroll waaaay back to the 2nd page of BOC to read about this little boy.
I know it’s inevitable that we’re on page 2 – unfortunately there are other heartbreaking cases that have happened that Blink works so hard at covering. That combined with the fact that so little info is coming out of Portland and LE in this case.
Still it’s sad.
Where is this little man?
Hoping that LE can unwind this puzzle and get to the truth soon.
So many hinky people on the fringes that could have had access to sweet Kyron.
My gut still tells me TMH is at the center of this – but who aided her?
Prayers for Kyron, Kaine, Desiree, and Tony.
cd says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
January 12, 2011 at 5:57 pm
LE’s witness to backup RH’s story s/b LE’s witness to backup RS’s story.
got my initials mixed up